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  • Draft Pick Trade

    If the Raptors do not get an opportunity to draft Kyrie Irving, Harrison Barnes, or (possibly) either of the Jones (by the way, if BC drafts Perry or Terrence, given his history at drafting, I'd say there is something to them). Personally, if the Raps can't get Irving or Barnes I'd look at scenarios to trade the draft pick.

    I put this tradeup that has Raymond Felton and Pekovic coming to the Raptors and Jose leaving with the explanation here.

    Let say in that trade, the Raptors were to swap their own pick for two picks the Jazz may have (say the Nets pick and MEM if they make the playoffs) or the Raps keep their own pick and trade it separately.

    The Raps then do this trade. Trade will work after season.

    TOR: Josh Smith, Jeff Teague
    LAC: Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia
    ATL: Chris Kaman, Ryan Gomes, Jerry Bayless, high draft pick from TOR

    Why does each team do this?

    LAC: Save $4M off their salary cap number (only $40.9M) while adding 2 decent, experienced role players. Under current CBA that gives them $17M to spend in free agency. Williams is better than anything at SF now and it allows them to develop Aminu. The key here is to save money but not in the traditional Donald Sterling way of saving (i.e. not spending). This saves cap space money to re-sign DeAndre Jordan and hit the Free Agent market. The Clippers should be major players in free agency as they are in one of the biggest markets in North America and they are offering the opportunity to play with arguably the most popular player in the NBA right now and all the attention that goes along with it.

    ATL: They are 6-7 against the top 6 in the East and 2-10 against the top 7 in the West. They lost first round 4-3 vs BOS in 2008, second round loss to CLE 4-0 in 2009, second round loss to ORL 4-0 in a blow out in each game after taking 7 games to get past MIL in the first round. This is a good team but not a deep playoff team. Given their salary commitments this trade should help them. They get an All-Star C in Kaman allowing Horford to play his natural PF position - which he has been wanting for a couple of seasons now. They get a back up SF in Gomes. They get a back up PG in Bayless as a change might be good for Teague considering he has had little to no success in ATL. They get themselves under the current salary cap and save around $7.5M. Most importantly they get a high draft pick to draft a SF (P or T Jones?) as they get better in the short and long term.

    TOR: The Raptors get a border line all-star who can score, pass, rebound, defend, block shots, get steals, and electrify the ACC at any given moment. He is shooting 34% from the 3 this year which is not great but not bad. He has a great long 2 jump shot. He would create the ultimate match up problems for opposing teams as they have a SF who can post up and muscle the opponent while a C who can draw other bigs away from the rim and post up smaller PF. Teague is a cheap back up PG who may surprise given a fresh start and a chance to reconnect with a college teammate in James Johnson. Giving up a high draft pick is a lot but if a future star is not going to be drafted (and my opinion is Barnes and/or Irving are the only ones with that potential) why not get a guy like Smith who would be a perfect fit and is hitting his prime. Like Bargnani, he is 25. The Raps would be right around the current salary cap of $58M with 12 players under contract and if Barbosa opted out it would be 11 players around $50-51M.

    With both trades, the Raps would have a starting line up of this:

    PG: Felton - 26
    SG: DeRozan - 21
    SF: Smith - 25
    PF: Davis - 21
    C: Bargnani - 25

    The depth chart would look like this:

    PG: Felton/Teague (22)
    SG: DeRozan/Barbosa* (28)
    SF: Smith/Johnson (24)/Kleiza (25)
    PF: Davis/Amir (23)
    C: Bargnani/Pekovic (25)/Alabi (22)

    If the Raps were able to get 2 draft picks (NJ and MEM) from Utah for their own, they could add another young player via the draft (it would be around 17/18). They would also be able to sign a couple of character veterans to round out the roster.

    Personally, I love the scenario laid out above and if I had any influence on the Raptors decision makers, I'd be all over this. This would be a young enough team to continue to grow but experienced enough to compete as guys like Smith and Amir, while only 25 and 23, have been in the league for 7 and 6 years.

    Who do you think? Is this the stuff wet dreams are made of?

  • #2
    Can you please replace BC? Now?
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    • #3
      Intriguing. I am not sure I go this way, but it does give a nice balance of young to not so young without using 'old'. The team can grow together and as parts move on/pass their prime they can be replaced with new young-mid young blood. I say it could work, depending on Felton's attitude coming here. I wouldn't complain with this group, but I guess it wouldn't be my first choice.

      I guess it all depends what we can get in these trades, i.e. what BC can pry out of the other teams.

      Comment


      • #4
        No way Atlanta values our pick, Kaman and Bayless enough to give up a) Their future starting PG, b) the heart and soul of their team in Smith. c) Servicable Back-Up Center in ZP AND d)Young swing man with (still) potential in MW.

        They are VERY high on Teague, and Josh Smith has to be, or near to, untradable. In my opinion.

        The only way you trade Josh Smith, Teague, Pachulia AND Marvin Wiliams in the same deal if you get back a SUPERSTAR. Which is not the case.

        The Hawks had a chance to trade Teague for Jason Thompson and said NO WAY.

        The Hawks had a chance to land Amar'e in exhange for Smith and said NO.

        No way they do it for Bayless, Kaman and a pick.
        Last edited by Joey; Mon Mar 14, 2011, 01:37 PM.

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        • #5
          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          No way Atlanta values our pick, Kaman and Bayless enough to give up a) Their future starting PG, b) the heart and soul of their team in Smith. c) Servicable Back-Up Center in ZP AND d)Young swing man with (still) potential in MW.

          They are VERY high on Teague, and Josh Smith has to be, or near to, untradable. In my opinion.

          The only way you trade Josh Smith, Teague, Pachulia AND Marvin Wiliams in the same deal if you get back a SUPERSTAR. Which is not the case.

          The Hawks had a chance to trade Teague for Jason Thompson and said NO WAY.

          The Hawks had a chance to land Amar'e in exhange for Smith and said NO.

          No way they do it for Bayless, Kaman and a pick.
          You forget the value of money. ATL saves a lot of it in the deal. For a team with one of the worst attendance in the league (23rd and 15,100) per game, that counts for a lot - especially considering Jamal Crawford will be looking for a new contract and he is currently a big part of their team. A big part of this trade, in my opinion, rests on ATL flaming out in the playoffs - again - which looks very likely.

          I was about to totally disagree on Teague, but you may be right about him PG of the future. I was thinking he was in his third year but he is second. He is 23 in June though and averaging 4 points and 2 assits this year - that is not promising. However, he plays only 13 minutes per game if you check his game log - although he played a hell of a game last night but only had 3 assists. Furthermore, the only reason I included Bayless for Teague was because I am not sure he is thought of as the PG of the future in ATL and it helped get the Raps under the current salary cap.

          Few teams would give up a player like Smith for a player who can opt out and become an UFA as Amar'e could have.

          Kaman is one year removed from an All-Star season. He is a legit C. Currently ATL has a PF as a C in Horford and a tweener SF/PF in Smith as their front court. Against BOS and ORL they are have been exposed in the last 2 playoffs and would be against them and CHI this year, in my opinion. Kaman at C and Horford at his natural PF position would be an imposing front court - even for BOS, ORL, or CHI.

          While I think Josh Smith would be great on Toronto, he is not an all-star but he is paid like one. If ATL gets bounced in the playoffs again in the first or second round, after upgrading their PG in Hinrich, they are going to have to start wondering what changes can be made. Horford and Joe Johnson are untouchable (Horford because of talent and JJ due to contract) that leaves Smith. A chance to get a young, high lottery player on a rookie contract to start at the 3 surrounded by Hinrich, JJ, Horford, and Kaman would speed his development along and certainly take the focus and pressure off him.

          I think Marvin Williams is a serviceable wing player in the NBA but based on his production he is overpaid and a questionable starter. If anyone is not willing to do the trade, in my opinion, it is LAC. I think they can get more for Kaman.

          This is all just my opinion but I think given the cost of the Hawks and the lack of post season success they have had, if they burn out in the playoffs again, Josh Smith is gone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Normally I'm in agreement with your trades but I dunno about this one. I'm not huge on Felton at all and Smith is just too much of a headcase. Can't get behind it, sorry.
            @sweatpantsjer

            Comment


            • #7
              ceez wrote: View Post
              Normally I'm in agreement with your trades but I dunno about this one. I'm not huge on Felton at all and Smith is just too much of a headcase. Can't get behind it, sorry.
              I like Felton. I've had him on my fantasy team 2 of the last 3 years. Certainly playing for D'Antoni inflates stats but 17 and 9 from your starting PG who plays great defense is nothing to scoff at. I wonder how much the end of the Melo-drama impacted him when his name started coming up in trades.

              As for Josh Smith, a headcase he may be but he puts up numbers and plays a style of game that would compliment Bargnani perfectly - Smith is a tweener SF/PF and Bargnani is a tweener SF/Centre, lol. The key to having headcases on a team is to make sure you have just one (semi joking!) and quality character around him.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am skeptical that anything like that will be available for him to trade. In 2006 he refused to pull the trigger to move down in the draft because no one was offering what was perceived to be the value of a pick as high as #1. What if teams low ball him for the #5 pick? I think it's a likely scenario given that there is no consensus number one or even a top ten at this point.

                Josh smith would no doubt be a great pick up at the right price.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  I am skeptical that anything like that will be available for him to trade. In 2006 he refused to pull the trigger to move down in the draft because no one was offering what was perceived to be the value of a pick as high as #1. What if teams low ball him for the #5 pick? I think it's a likely scenario given that there is no consensus number one or even a top ten at this point.

                  Josh smith would no doubt be a great pick up at the right price.
                  If one of Irving or Barnes are available, scratch all this. But if they are not, I'd start exploring other options.

                  I honestly think the first trade has everybody winning - i.e. they are better with the trade than before it.

                  The second trade, I think the Hawks are better off (maybe take out Bayless and Teague), the Raps are better off with Smith than the pick, and the Clippers are debatable.

                  Question for you: Irving and Barnes are gone, would you pull the trigger on these deals if possible?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Question for you: Irving and Barnes are gone, would you pull the trigger on these deals if possible?
                    Why is it now "Barnes or Bust" (and Irving)? A few weeks ago it was Terrence Jones / Perry Jones.

                    Perry Jones didn't forget how to play ball. His mom took some money that she shouldn't have.
                    Once the Tournament gets going, expect at least 1 or 2 guys to jump into the talks of Top 5.
                    I don't think we should be so close sighted as to think those are the only two good picks in this draft.
                    I think we need to stick with the draft. It's how you build. Unless you're Boston.

                    And as I said earlier, I don't think Atlanta trades Josh Smith for anything less than a piece that gets them closer to a title. This deal does not. So really its heresay for us to answer that question based on 'if possible'; because I just don't think it is.

                    But if possible? Abso-friggin-lutely.
                    Last edited by Joey; Mon Mar 14, 2011, 10:15 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      Why is it now "Barnes or Bust" (and Irving)? A few weeks ago it was Terrence Jones / Perry Jones.

                      Perry Jones didn't forget how to play ball. His mom took some money that she shouldn't have.
                      Once the Tournament gets going, expect at least 1 or 2 guys to jump into the talks of Top 5.
                      I don't think we should be so close sighted as to think those are the only two good picks in this draft.
                      I think we need to stick with the draft. It's how you build. Unless you're Boston.

                      And as I said earlier, I don't think Atlanta trades Josh Smith for anything less than a piece that gets them closer to a title. This deal does not. So really its heresay for us to answer that question based on 'if possible'; because I just don't think it is.

                      But if possible? Abso-friggin-lutely.
                      I didn't mean to imply "Barnes/Irving or bust!" but I guess I did.

                      My reasoning for thinking trade the draft pick is because given the current state of the franchise it is a make or break moment for the forseeable future. Looking at the top 5, Sullinger is a 4 of which we already have 2 very good/promising PF's, Kanter has knee issues, Williams could very well be an undersized 4 versus a 3, P.Jones has lazy issues, T.Jones has (supposedly) character issues. If any of these concerns are true they might not be the best option for the team right now.

                      If Barnes or Iving are available when the Raps pick, I'd be happy going with them. The reason why is they are extremely skilled and, but more importantly, have shown they can handle high pressure situations, are of high character, and have solid work ethics - from all accounts.

                      You are absolutely correct it is all speculation. That is what makes it fun for me as a fan. If I could find a way to get paid for thinking about the Raptors I'd be in my dream job.

                      As for Josh Smith, I think that trade does make the Hawks much better and closer to a title. Kaman was an all-star last year and is a true C. He is starting to play really well again now that he is healthy. Sliding Horford over to the PF and Kaman at the C combined with Joe Johnson and Hinrich in the backcourt is 4 pretty good defenders and scorers. Gomes puts up similar number of Williams right now and the high lotto pick could be a player that would fit much better with a veteran starting line up versus the Raptors young line up i.e. less responsibility and pressure - similar to DD last year. Teague and Bayless were throw ins but if not included, this saves ATL another $1.4M in salary. Again all speculation.

                      So again, all speculation as anything ever is - especially in the trade forum. Personally, I think this lineup can not only compete in the next year but for many years to come. How far they get will depend on continued development of players.

                      PG: Felton (26)/Bayless (22)
                      SG: DeRozan (21)/Barbosa* (28)
                      SF: Smith (25)/Johnson (24)/Kleiza (25)
                      PF: Davis (21)/Amir (23)
                      C: Bargnani (25)/Pekovic (25)/Alabi (22)
                      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Mar 15, 2011, 12:13 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        PG: Felton (26)/Bayless (22)
                        SG: DeRozan (21)/Barbosa* (28)
                        SF: Smith (25)/Johnson (24)/Kleiza (25)
                        PF: Davis (21)/Amir (23)
                        C: Bargnani (25)/Pekovic (25)/Alabi (22)
                        That is, beautiful.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          PG: Felton (26)/Bayless (22)
                          SG: DeRozan (21)/Barbosa* (28)
                          SF: Smith (25)/Johnson (24)/Kleiza (25)
                          PF: Davis (21)/Amir (23)
                          C: Bargnani (25)/Pekovic (25)/Alabi (22)
                          My God, that's a playoff team (with a possible 50 wins during the regular season).
                          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            No way Atlanta values our pick, Kaman and Bayless enough to give up a) Their future starting PG, b) the heart and soul of their team in Smith. c) Servicable Back-Up Center in ZP AND d)Young swing man with (still) potential in MW.

                            They are VERY high on Teague, and Josh Smith has to be, or near to, untradable. In my opinion.

                            The only way you trade Josh Smith, Teague, Pachulia AND Marvin Wiliams in the same deal if you get back a SUPERSTAR. Which is not the case.

                            The Hawks had a chance to trade Teague for Jason Thompson and said NO WAY.

                            The Hawks had a chance to land Amar'e in exhange for Smith and said NO.

                            No way they do it for Bayless, Kaman and a pick.
                            You know, taking Teague out of the trade, the Hawks could sport this lineup very easily:

                            PG: Teague
                            SG: Hinrich
                            SF: Johnson
                            PF: Horford
                            C: Kaman

                            In my opinion, this lineup - if all are healthy - produces more playoff success than Teague, Hinrich, JJ, Smith, Horford. This current lineup is what they have gone to since they lost 4 straight (with the last 3 being blowouts) to OKC, NYK, LAL, CHI. With Crawford currently making $10M and a big part of the success of the team, he is probably not looking to take a huge paycut. Paying him $8-9M and Williams another $8M is starter money for 2 bench players.

                            I never considered playing JJ at the 3 (even though that was his position in PHX) but it is very possible as he is listed at 6'7" and 240lbs - he certainly has the size. He is also going to be 30 in June. Maybe his speed slows down and they move him to the 3 where he still has strength? The money saved in this certainly allows them to resign Crawford.

                            I'm just talking out of my @ss here as the thought of JJ at the SF popped in to my head and I did not consider it before. It certainly makes Williams, with his contract, much less desirable in my opinion.

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                            • #15
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              PG: Felton (26)/Bayless (22)
                              SG: DeRozan (21)/Barbosa* (28)
                              SF: Smith (25)/Johnson (24)/Kleiza (25)
                              PF: Davis (21)/Amir (23)
                              C: Bargnani (25)/Pekovic (25)/Alabi (22)
                              Trot out this lineup and hire Rick Adelman!

                              Take the rest of the summer off, BC.

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