Franchise Player vs. Wannabe Franchise PlayerThat’s what Jay Triano told Chris Bosh after he benched him in the third quarter because he was playing like a prima donna. Listen child, if we wanted our PF to take jumpers we’d get Dell Curry and Tracy Murray out of retirement, have them play the 4 and give them the green light to launch as many springers as they want, that would be better than watching you make a fool of yourself and make a mockery of the term “franchise player”. You want to be the MVP? How about not playing shit scared for a change and coming through when you’re matched up with a player we’re told you’re better than. Or is that all just bullshit and you’re really the worst good player in the ‘04 draft and we were just unlucky not to select 5th and get a real player like Wade up in here. I’m tired of watching him choke whenever he’s matched up with a club not named the Bobcats, it’s the same crap over and over again and it doesn’t look like it’s ever going to end. But oh wait, he’s tired, he played in the Olympics and D’d up some Euro dude named Slava so he must be exhausted. That’s probably why he’s just settling for J’s, not because he can’t drive or finish. Not because he doesn’t have a real offensive move in his arsenal, none of that. It’s because Evil Sam played him 40+ minutes a game for the first 15 games and that’s totally got him burned out by Game 25. Hell, why even bother playing the rest of the season? Put his sorry carcass on the injured list and sign Primoz to a contract, at least we’ll get some real entertainment down at the ACC.
After the game he has the balls to say this:
If I want to get booed, I’ll go on the road. It’s really tense right now. When you’re down three points at home and you’re getting booed, that’s kind of disheartening. Whether the crowd knows it or not, they play a big part in the game.”
Is this joker for real? We’re booing because we’ve seen this movie like half a dozen times already. We get an early lead, give 90% of it back by the half, give 115% of it back by the end of the third and then watch you pussy out in the fourth. That’s why the fans are booing you turd. It’s called being disgusted with your team. Your response to the NJ humiliation is jump shooting your way to 2-13 against Devean George? Your team shoots 26% in the second and third quarters and you wonder why the fans are booing? BTW, for those of you keeping track, Devean George should be added to the long list of NBA players that have shutdown Chris Bosh in a meaningful game. The list includes everyone from scrubs to greats, here are a few notables: Josh Boone, David West, LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Millsap, Nene, Josh Smith, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett….the list goes on and on. It’s sad, this is supposed to be our franchise player, the guy we’re building the club around and the one who’s supposed to take this team to the next level. Such horseshit. Too disgusted to talk about this pretender anymore.
I’m running the risk of people thinking that I’m copy and pasting these recaps but that’s just not true, we’re just consistently bad. Let’s talk about this game for a bit. We started off well in the first quarter and were shooting something like 75% 3/4 of the way through it and ended it up 11. Most of the shots we took were jumpers but when they’re going in nobody talks about why you’re not going inside or why your star player is acting like there’s a landmine in the paint. The thing about percentages is that they even out and I’m thinking to myself, the Raptors will cool off and the Mavericks will continue to shoot 46% for the game and this does not bode well. So the second quarter started and sure enough we started cooling off and the Mavericks picked up their defense and got back in the game with some three point shooting which came off of the mismatches they initiated. By the end of the half, what was a 13 point lead got whittled down to 5. This is all happening with Bosh playing like Zan Tabak and Dirk missing jumpers he usually hits while taking a piss. So I think to myself, self, there’s no way Dirk continues to miss those in the second half. See, both supporting casts did a great job of keeping their teams close in the first half as both “star” players struggled, but the supporting cast can’t win you the game over 48 minutes, that’s where your big players come in. As expected, Nowtzki heated up and Bosh remained cold, ice cold. Jason Terry and Josh Howard came through as Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani didn’t. What’s new?
Dallas is a tough team to cover because they’ve got great perimeter play in Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Josh Howard and Dirk Nowitzki. All they did in this game was run a high screen near the three-point line, waited for the Raptors to pull towards one of the two Mavs and passed to the open one for the jumper. When you’ve got great shooters that’s all you need to do. The other source of their offense was nothing but a simple straight-up pass to Nowtizki at the elbow who faced up Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani and drained a jumper in their eye. After he made his first five you’d think we’d switch it up a little and maybe make him put it on the floor, turn him into a passer and force him towards O’Neal who was doing a great job of playing positional paint defense. Triano never adjusted to Dirk which is surprising because he did make a quick adjustment in the first quarter when Josh Howard was burning Jamario Moon, he yanked Moon for Graham and the defense tightened up. We also had no answer for Brandon Bass who got his scores against Bosh face-up style and against our wings in the post, very good player.
There was another unexplainable move by Triano which is still perplexing me, Good Joey showed up in the first quarter and went 4-5 for 8 points, Triano took him out at 10:08 of the second quarter and didn’t bring him back till 10:22 of the third quarter. Whatever happened to feeding the hot hand? Joey was running the break, hitting the jumper and playing defense, don’t quite understand why he got yanked. Let’s leave their severe flaws aside for a second and acknowledge that Moon, Graham and Parker did a decent job in this game of supplying 29 points, Jason Kapono not so much. It’s becoming apparent that he’s going to be hit and miss as the starting SG, it’s not entirely his fault, he’s being asked to get his offense by running around 6 screens, pump faking a guard, dealing with the paint help and then launching a semi-contested jumper. I’m all for Kapono getting 18 shots a game but I’d like to see them come in a little more systematic fashion, not through pure chucking. Tonight he got his ass handed to him on the defensive end by Howard, Terry and the versatile Brandon Bass who can play 3 different positions. It’s just too easy for them to get their shot off against Kapono who can’t apply any sort of ball pressure and is shaken off without the help of a screen. It was dangerous what they were doing to him.
So thanks to the good play of our wings and the continued solid contributions from Jermaine O’Neal on both ends of the floor, we were up 5 at the half. That’s a good thing, we’re a struggling team playing a hot team and we haven’t been blown out, that’s something to celebrate and build upon right there. A team can go into halftime and come out two ways in the third quarter. Either they can come out thinking that they’re right there in the game and will grind out the second half on a possession by possession basis OR they can come out all insecure and scared thinking about the lead they once had. The Raptors as you know did the latter. Instead of taking on the challenge of hanging with the Mavericks by slowing the game down and playing hard-nosed inside-out basketball, our sorry defense let them go on a 23-10 run while we went strictly jumpers in the third quarter. Our leader Bosh in this quarter? 0-5 with 2 turnovers. Their leader Dirk in this quarter? 4-5 for 8 points. ‘Nuf said.
The fourth quarter starts with us stuck 6 and we start off with Roko - who played very well in his first spell - at the helm. Chris Bosh finally makes a couple shots and we cut the lead down to 2 and that’s when our defense lets us down. Ukic goes under a high screen and Barea drains a three, on our next possession Parker throws a YMCA pass which gets picked off and Barea finds Jason Terry for a trailing three to push the lead back up to 8. Another easy Brandon Bass jumper off a high-pick makes it 10 and the game is over. We don’t have the firepower or will to come back from that.
Jose Calderon is killing us, for once I’d just like to see him accelerate in transition and get to the rim to either finish the play or find a corner-sniper. Just once. He’s very enthusiastic about getting the ball to the top of the key but then loses the motivation to go any further, instead he’ll pull back and do a couple meaningless dribbles before passing it to someone on the perimeter or dumping it precariously into the low-post. Here are his assist distribution numbers, note that 5 of his assists came in that hot first quarter and the only ones that were true finds were the look-off pass to Joey Graham and finding a cutting Moon. The rest are garbage. Juan Barea’s 6 assists are far more impressive because he actually attracted a defender and then found the cheater’s man.
- O’Neal 1
- Graham 4
- Moon 3
- Bargnani 1
- Bosh 1
Calderon’s late rotations on Kidd after leaving him without a reason hurt us, Kidd burned him for two threes and another jumper at key moments in the game. Twice in the third quarter when the Raptors were trying to hang on to that first half lead and then in the fourth quarter when he hit a three to make it a 10 point game. I could live with these defensive mistakes if he operated efficiently on offense but he’s missing too many cutters, passing up too many semi-transition opportunities and failing to deliver the ball to feed mismatches. Case in point: Jermaine O’Neal had Jose Barea on him in the post and Jose Calderon failed to make the entry-pass. It was the low-point of the game for him.
Let not my criticisms of Calderon divert the blame for who lost us this game - Chris Bosh. We counted on him to cancel out, if not outplay Dirk Nowitzki and he came up so short that I’d rather have Humphries D up Dirk and see how far he gets. Jermaine O’Neal had a great game, 19 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks and 2 charges. He was the offense for stretches in the game, if he could only finish consistently around the rim we’d rely less and less on Bosh and wouldn’t be disappointed as often. I think O’Neal’s offense is starting to come back to the level it was before he got injured. In a game that followed that oh so familiar recipe of disaster, him and Graham remain the lone bright spots.
We followed our recent trend of getting killed on the boards as we were -10, but it only cost us 7 second-chance points. This loss falls more in the Sam Mitchell category of things: Bad perimeter defense and getting dominated at the G spot. Dallas shot 50% from the field and their PGs outscored ours 37-18, we left a man open too often on their screen ‘n rolls and would’ve been much better off just switching as we we had been doing of late. The differential in talent between the two teams is so great, we’re outmatched at every single position, except perhaps the center where I can safely say that Jermaine O’Neal is better than Erick Dampier. Come to think of it this game went according to plan, a home team gets off to a good start, can’t sustain the play for whatever reason (bad conditioning, lack of motivation, confidence etc.), the better team regains momentum and finishes off strong. As Devean George said about us:
The whole team looked frustrated, some doubt started to come into their mind. They started off smoking, but it’s a 48 minute game.
Yup, we got some mentally weak players on this team. And nobody’s more mentally weak than Andrea Bargnani who’s confidence gets shaken if a telemarketer doesn’t say ‘thank you’ after you tell him to piss off. What did Andrea do tonight? 1-5 for 3 points and some nasty looking bricks on open shots. I’m not holding him to #1 pick standards but can I atleast hold him to un-drafted free agent ones? Colangelo’s hoping that if it acts like a stiff, plays like a stiff, looks like a stiff, it’s probably a future Hall of Famer.
Also, since when did Jack Armstrong become an apologist for every single Raptor out there? I used to love this guy’s honesty and straight-up analysis but he’s become worse than Chuck Swirsky lately. What’s this nonsense about being the “eternal optimist” when Bosh is settling for jumpers, Jose’s putting on the breaks at the three-point line and Andrea’s playing like…well…Andrea. Our media, management and coaches have all seemed to accept mediocrity as the norm. They’ve become apologists for the team when they should be critics that motivate. If the “experts” closest to you tell you that everything’s fine and rosy when they’re not, who are you supposed to get an honest opinion from?
We’re 2-6 under Triano and have a 6 game Western ass-f*ck coming our way. I want to say that we’re capable of beating the Thunder but let me remind the denizens of the Republic that last year the Sonics blew us out 123-115 and the score doesn’t to justice to how big of a massacre it was. Let’s hope we can get a win there, not that it means much considering that this team is heading down the toilet, the only thing left to do is to pour some Draino and flush hard. Colangelo: either blow this baby up and trade this sorry excuse of a franchise player OR cross that luxury-tax line and get some real players here so we can make a legitimate run, not this pretender bullshit.
We also got this game covered via the Roll Call with AltRaps and the live blog which I had to suffer through.
FAQ
khandor
Dino Gunners
TauEpsilonNu
Switch to regular comments
94 Raps
I look at the team right now and it disgusts me. What other team consistently blows double-digit leads? What other team doesn’t man up when the other team starts to make a run? The NBA to me seems like a game of runs, the raps are capable of just one, they build a nice 12 point lead and lose it all.
I look at the roster and it disgusts me. This team has had 4 top ten picks in the last 6 years, with one first overall pick! If that won’t give you a foundation I dont know what can. What did we get from them? araujo, bargnani, charlie v and bosh. This is the BIGGEST problem with the team. We cannot draft well. In the deepest draft since 87, we get the good play with no heart (pardon the jawai), we pick aruajo 8th with a projected top-three pick sitting there waiting for us. We choose bargnani, the unknown italian, over roy, gay, altridge even thomas. This is embarrassing, we have such a poor drafting record, the last solid pick I remember the raptors making was mo pete. The other disaster with this team is the development coaching. Maybe I am wrong and all of these players would be solid picks if they played somewhere else because their coach would develop them properly and fit them in the correct role. Look at Sloan and Milscap, Jackson with bynum and ariza, dallas with howard, i could go on forever, these we all late picks but they were developed properly. I am sick of the lack of desire and lack of all around skills our players have.
And I am tired of people saying crap that we need to tank this season to get a top-5 pick. As a said before we are shit are drafting, it doesnt matter where we pick. Even at the 13-17 range there are tons of great players to choose. Look at granger, he dropped 41 yesterday. I just wished we can learn how to draft and develop, even just to lay a base foundation for this team.
Fluxland….you preach….me choir.
I agree with Bosh’s not-franchiseness.
I dont mean to ruin the anger but someething you said was really funny.
“Dominating the G spot.” :P
Arse,
You know I love the site, but lately it seems the level of discussion is dropping. Maybe its because of the frustration around the losses, but I think we are reaching new lows with some of the posts. I dont even understand what some people are saying or if there is a point to their ramblings.
I was at the game last night, and thought the booing was out of line. I was as frustrated as many but to Khandor’s point, the timing was poor. We blew a lead (surprise), but we needed to support the team and try and get some energy back into the building to try and help get them back into it. I am no apologist, and if the game got out of hand and the effort was lacking, then I would have added my voice to the chorus of boos, but I thought the timing was wrong as the game was close and still winnable.
I also agree with Khandor that Bosh isn’t being put in situations where he is in favorable match ups with opponent players. He’s unable to play to his strengths because of who he’s matched up against, which is something that can be improved through effective coaching. He’s a guy who’s game is built of a jump shot, thats not something new. He uses the shot as a set up for bulk of the rest of his moves. If he’s not in a position to exploit it against players he can either shoot over or beat off the dribble, guess what, he’ll live and die off of how effective he’s shooting the ball.
I agree that blowing up this team would be a mistake as we need to build around a few core players. I was hoping it would be Bosh, Calderone and Barganani, but Bargnani has been a disappointment. All of you guys who think that blowing this up and making big trades are following the leaf script and looks what thats gotten us. I dont like losing but I also recognize that Rome wasnt built in a day.
AltRaps - OK, I’m with you on booing when the team shows no effort and is down by 20 at the end of the first quarter but when a player shows no effort for the first three quarters, he deserves to get booed too. Nobody’s brought this up yet but the fans weren’t booing the team, they were booing specific players, namely Bosh and at times Calderon (after that glorious airball). I think it was very obvious what they thought of Bosh’s performance last night and it spilled over when Dirk started heating up and Bosh remained passive. Sorry, can’t blame them, they were told we have a superstar and paid good money to see him perform, when it turns out to be a farce they have a right to be pissed.
Dino Gunner, good point on tanking. I have no faith in BC’s drafting and there’s zero guarantee that we’ll get anything of value in the draft even if we pick high. Back out the part about Charlie V and I’m with you on how we’ve screwed up in the draft, he was a good talent to take at the position. 90% of Raptors fans wanted Gerald Green with that pick.
Err, really khandor?
Don’t you think the booing when down by 3 points was a culmination of the double-digit lead that was squandered, yet again, on home court? Or maybe even the house of brick that was built by everyone’s jumpshot post first quarter? (Andrea, anyone?)
Is the crowd ‘ignorant’ or were you vacationing in Happyland for the previous ten games?
Toronto fans cheer hella-loud when things are going well and hella-loud when things aren’t. It’s called passion, for better or worse. Maybe if the players displayed some of that, we’d have a better on-court product. Or we can have pulseless fans like the Nets.
But hey, i guess when the summer comes around and the arena is empty and the players are back home, you can boo in your room so that everyone in the organization hears your displeasure.
DG, of course the frustration will result in ramblings. We are after all human and support the team with all we’ve got. You should check out celticsblog.com in the year they won 24 games, it’s got a very different feel than last year.
For those of you who are offended by the language in the post, I apologize but that’s what happens when you write a 2AM post after a shitty loss. Pretty soon we got to clean the articles up completely so you won’t have to suffer through this for too long.
skoola,
What would you have liked me to say during the two game winning streak?
* That they were about to lose 3 games in a row.
* That the improvements they were making were good but were not going to fix the problems this team has.
* That the fanbase, which includes you … is ignorant about how the NBA game works.
* That chickens eventually come home to roost.
* That a “force baseline/sideline” defensive system in the NBA is no better and no worse than a “force middle” defensive system and that Bryan Colangelo is blowing smoke out his ears telling you that THIS is going to fix the problem with this team, long term.
* That the wins over Indiana and New Jersey came about, respectively, because of the Closing Unit the Raptors used in Game 1 and the atrocious shooting of their Opponent in Game 2, not because of the coaching change, the change in defensive philosophy and the improved play of Jason Kapono, etc.
* That Chris Bosh is a team player; is not frustrated; hasn’t mailed it in; is doing the best he can to adapt to a changing environment; and has not decided to skip town, yet, for greener pastures, elsehere.
Is that what you would have preferred me to say during that two-game mini-winning streak … btw, 2 games is not a streak to me … instead of remaining silent, tending to my own concerns, not piling on at a time that the fanbase SHOULD be happy, and letting things play out in their own way, all in due time?
Of course, as a season ticket holder, you’re allowed to boo whenever you happen to fell like it. That’s your right.
My right is to disagree with your actions should I believe them to be refective of basketball ignorance.
As long as Jermaine O’Neal is the Starting Center for this team … do not expect to see Chris Bosh perform, as an individual player, in the way he’s done in the past, playing in this specific role for the Toronto Raptors. Me saying that, “the NBA is a jumpshot League” … has nothing to do with a perception that there’s no difference between the jumper that Dirk takes and makes on the regular vs the jumper that CB4 takes and misses all to frequently.
From Doug Smith’s blog today:
“Action: The booing.
Reaction: A good thing?
Probably not. It did start with the game very much in the balance and really is not the way for fans to get the team going, but sort of understandable.”
If being booed by the home fans for shooting 312 jumpers in a row doesn’t motivate you to do something differently following the boos, you probably aren’t meant for pro sports.
Mojo,
I LOL when I read it the first time through. : )
DG says:
“Bosh isn’t being put in situations where he is in favorable match ups with opponent players. He’s unable to play to his strengths because of who he’s matched up against, which is something that can be improved through effective coaching. ”
Sorry dude but I gotta call BS on this. Tell me what matchups Bosh can exploit and what “position” he needs to be in. Arsenalist mentioned a few players who have outplayed him this year but that list can be longer. Do you think Dallas has to work this hard to get Notitzki in “favorable matchups”? Nowitzki scored against JO, Bosh and Bargnani last night because he’s a great player and can improvise and doesn’t need everything to be diagramed to perfection and spoon-fed before he has a good game. That’s what star players do. Get technical on me DG, what positions and situations can Bosh specifically take advantage of?
DG, Re: #54: Thanks. IMO, you are another of the voices on-line who has a solid handle on the NBA game, and the Raptors’ situation, even though we do not always happen to agree with each other’s perspective. Agreeing or disagreeing is quite meaningless. What counts is what is actually being said. That alone has value on-line.
Atl, I know how you feel, bro. We’ve been on the “Jose is not an All Star and Gimpy set the franchise back a decade” train since it left the station in October. But my eyeballs are falling out of my head when I have to read how JO has been a blessing, a “solid contributor” and the rest of the team sux. And what do I know, I don’t have season tickets.
yertu,
re: #43
When Hakeem was in his heyday … almost every single time the ball was entered to him in the Low Post, what actually resulted was a jumpshot … not a dunk, not a drive, not a drop-step, not a power move of any kind … and the man is rightfully in the hall of fame, today, with 2 NBA titles to his credit.
Do you comprehend that Bill Walton’s great Portland team was predicated on:
1. His Defensive Rebounding prowess;
2. His Ability to Key the Break with terrific outlet passes;
3. His Ability to Pass the ball to his open teammates; and,
4. His Ability to Take and Make the TURN-AROUND JUMPSHOT.
The NBA is a jumpshot League.
If in doubt, please the exploits of …
Oscar Robertson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar [whose Sky Hook was, IN FACT, the greatest single jumpshot of ALL-TIME]
Larry Bird
Isiah Thomas
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Paul Pierce
all of whom had/has as their primary vehicle for scoring the ball in this league their jumpshot.
=====================
The difference comes in what type of jumpshots a team/player chooses to shoot on a regular basis, what type of jumpshots that team/player makes on a regular basis, and the system their team is running to generate those types of uncontested shot opportunities on a consistent basis … or not.
Arsenalist,
re: #55
Sorry, can’t blame them, they were told we have a superstar and paid good money to see him perform, when it turns out to be a farce they have a right to be pissed.
In which case … who the fans SHOULD BE booing is Bryan Colangelo, not Chris Bosh and not Jose Calderon.
I don’t think it would be unfair to use the expression ‘COMING APART AT THE SEAMS’.
What makes the expression especially true is that it most applies to our franchise player CB4. To me it all started with that gut wrenching loss to NJ back in November. Something changed after that game. CB4, for whatever reason, saddly has checked out. The team knows this and this explains a lot of what is happening on the court. That interview he gave last night confirmed this.
I will also say, I reamin confident in BC’s abilities. He is no Rob Babcock.
khandor, i think everyone deserves a boo right now, bc more so. bosh/calderon are not playing as well as they could be, and in bosh’s case, it seems like he’s thinking about spring break in cancun then how to get himself out of this slump he’s in.
uh, wasn’t dirk checking bosh for a good chunk of the game? isn’t dirk a pretty horrible defender? doesn’t bosh have the quicks to exploit that matchup?
flux - re. JO - i’m not trying to proclaim him a saviour, and i don’t think he’s THE key guy in whether the team will have success…he’s but a mere cog. but he’s also one of the few cogs who actually seems interested in competing. is he overly effective? not really. he’s an inefficient shooter, isn’t nearly the rebounder he once was, and is overly careless with the ball. but i still see him hustling, i still see him helping, i still see him TRYING. if JO’s presence is having such a negative impact on bosh, well, i think that’s on mr. bosh.
khan - at this point, i would give anything to see them go to the starting 5 you suggest…’cause as you point out, it can’t be any worse.
i’m curious what aspect of moon’s skill-set has improved? his perimeter game? shot? handle? rebounding? D?
RonaldSmackdonald,
I am going to guess that you haven’t yet taken the time to read what’s been written on my blog.
Toronto fans cheer hella-loud when things are going well and hella-loud when things aren’t. It’s called passion, for better or worse.
You might call it passion; but, I refer to it as something else.
Jeff Van Gundy had yet another gem in last night’s game which reminds me a little of what you’re actually saying there.
[paraphrasing]
“Pat Riley use to say that the most respect you could show an opponent was to show no respect at all. There’s a lot of truth in that.” - JVG
Passion without sensiblity, as well, is the equivalent of ignorance … in as much as disrespecting a worthy opponent by acting too respectfully isn’t smart at all. : )
It’s okay if you need to think about THAT one for a while.
khan - nice list. all guards, or guard-like, except for kareem, whose ‘jumpshot’ was usually taken from, what, 8-10 feet or closer.
‘Do you comprehend that Bill Walton’s great Portland team was predicated on:
1. His Defensive Rebounding prowess;
2. His Ability to Key the Break with terrific outlet passes;
3. His Ability to Pass the ball to his open teammates; and,
4. His Ability to Take and Make the TURN-AROUND JUMPSHOT.’
yes, i do comprehend this. i guess it’s just ironic that of those four things that that chip team was predicated upon, bosh has not shown to be competent in 2-4…but at least he’s a super dominant rebounder. whew. the team would be screwed otherwise.
Wow … what can I say that hasn’t been said already. Seems like the tribal honker fans are bifurcating .. for and against the hapless Raptors.
But in defence of Bargs and all other big young men attempting to play bball while trying to change their game on-the-job in the NBA no less.
Remember Bargs first season? He was a fan hero, tiptoeing beyond the 3-pt arc and lofting his 3-point bombs and not much more … but he did contribute to the best of his ability and even pulled out a few games for the Raptors with his shooting only.
Then in his second season he was asked to expand his game and start slashing to the basket and also pulling up and taking 18 foot jump shots. Barg obeyed instructions and tried to do what amounted to a completely new game against NBA defence. He was criticised as a #1 draft pick flop. He had sinus problems too, how unfortunate.
Now in his third season, he is showing flashes of success, but he is still inconsistent. What can you expect from somebody who was asked to change his game and then learn on the job. At his rate of learning, I would expect him to blossom in another couple of seasons … and that’s him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bargs left the Raps and went back to the Euroleague and become a big star player.
What perturbs me is that forum posters who do not live in a 7 foot body have no empathy and will never understand the physical and mental makeup of very tall young men. Some are highly skilled but most struggle.
I don’t know, Arse. Seemed to me (and evidently DG who was actually there)that the booing was situational and team directed. Wouldn’t be the first time, either. We can all conjure up who we think it was directed at and pick at our own scapegoat, but I would be utterly shocked if the majority of those boos were personally directed at Bosh and Jose. I think it was just another case of the casual fan listening to “what’s wrong with the Raps” and feeding off it. Just as you and I and any other intelligent supporter can say it’s stupid to continue to boo Vince, the media thrives off it, and the kids think it’s funny and cool.
I’m all about passion. I think it’s one of the reasons players should want to come here. That said, I still firmly believe that the antics of some fans weigh heavily in the decision of some.
FAQ - good points. but bargs has been playing professional ball for how many years now? i agree, adjusting to the NBA, adjusting to various positions, learning how to defend & rebound, all are big things. but the thing that we saw in his rookie year that’s been missing since is the confidence, that cold-blooded look in his eyes that suggested he had an ‘it’ quality about him. now, all i see in his eyes is emptiness, confusion. i hope he turns it around, but i’ve begun to fear the worst.
at a certain point, all the reasons for why he’s struggling just come across as excuses. if putting him in the ‘right’ position for him to succeed means the team struggles, then might as well try & see what happens. they certainly can’t expect to get much back for him, not that they’d dream of trading him anyway.
endo, Bill Russell averaged less than 15 pts per game in this League, and had no Low Post game to speak of, nor a consistent perimeter jumpshot. Yet … Would you classify him as a Superstar in the NBA?
To expect a player like Chris Bosh, with Chris Bosh’s strengths and weaknesses, to be something which he’s not … is to put the blame on the wrong person. There are different types of great players in this NBA game …e.g. Dennis Rodman was nothing like Michael Jordan, who were nothing like Sam Jones and Bill Russell, who were nothing like Jack Sikma and Gus Johnson, who were nothing like Isiah Thomas and Bill Laimbeer, who were nothing Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, etc., etc., etc.
Raps Fan, If Colangelo wanted to keep Bosh playing like he was before … then he should NOT have fired Sam Mitchell. Someone who isn’t trying in a NBA game does not put out the effort it takes to collect 9 rebounds and hoist up 20 shot attempts; nor does someone who isn’t playing well, in general, generate a 10:2 assist-to-turnover ratio. Effort by Bosh & Calderon is not the problem with this team, Here & Now.
Haha..I think it’s funny that people are starting to repeat the things I have been saying for years…except I said these things about Bosh et al even when we were winning….
This choking and mental weakness has been his main characteristic for most of his career… he was never a “franchise player” or a “superstar” and never will be//he is a ROBIN, not a BATMAN.
All this cretinous hero worship has dug the hole that Toronto is in..instead of understanding that Bosh is only a very good player who needs a full team around him with star players at the wing/guard positions, Toronto has proceeded as though he is a superstar who only needs complimentary players, like LeBron….
Toronto has created this monster by putting all its eggs in a basket with a big fat hole….
It’s easy to see why the moronic fans would make that mistake…but why in the fuck would Colangelo have not bolstered the team properly? Spending a third of the payroll on a player that really only duplicates what Bosh does is the fucking stupidest move ever….
I have said this would lead to a Pau in Memphis and Garnett in Minnesota type situation for 2 fucking years…and that is exactly where this team is going….he is the only asset they have…so either he goes for at least TWO STRONG PLAYERS…or they BLOW THE CAP and bring in two STARS like Boston did and recognize that HE is not going to carry a team…EVER.
Wow - again I agree with arrogant Khandor, the booing did not help when down by 3. Bosh’s comments were justified. Boo the shit outta them in the final two minutes, when game was outta hand - Boo them off the floor.
Cannot disagree that the team that hits their open jumpers usually win.
Colangelo is at a crossroads. I am not too sure if Bargnani and Bosh can co-exist on this team while both maximize their potential. A month ago I would of said Bosh is untouchable and Bargnani highly unlikely to be traded. Today, no-one is untouchable on this squad. Bosh would bring a higher return, and resolve the 2010 issue. One thing for sure is we will not compete for elite status this season or next. Does the overhaul start now?
yertu, re: #68 Your description of Jermaine O’Neal in that comment reminds me of a former Maple Leaf named Wendel Clark. Wendel was a great guy to cheer for and would have been a terrific role player on a Stanley Cup calibre-winning team, at an early point in his career, but … the unfortunate reality is such that if Wendel is the Top Gun on your team’s first line, during the latter half of his career, then your squad just isn’t very good, and having him fulfil THAT specific role is definitely part of your team’s PROBLEM, rather than a workable long term solution.
re: Moon. His perimeter shooting stroke has improved.
nunya, According to you …
Can you be a star player in the NBA if you cannot be expected to carry the load for your team’s offense coming down the stretch of a close game against a high end opponent? In my book you can.
If we can agree that Bosh’s real/actual strength, as a person and a player in the NBA, is not as a scorer … then, Can you see that he does indeed hold considerable value to a team as a different sort of Primary Building Block?
If he’s surrounded, as the Center, by the right collection of players, is Chris Bosh good enough in your judgment to be a key part of a team that can win a NBA title some day in the not too distant future? [e.g the next 10 years] In my book he is … and, so is Jose Calderon.
What it will depend upon is …
who the other 13 players are on the Raptors roster,
who the coaching staff is,
who the Support Staff is,
who the President/GM is, and
who the Owner is.
re: #64/55
Khandor,I hear you when you say maybe we should be booing B.C.instead of some of the players….do you think B.C. heard the boo’s,I think he did.
yertu, re: #70 Was Hakeem Olajuwon a guard to you. Was Elvin Hayes? Or, Jack Sikma? Or, Dave Cowens? Or, Bill Laimbeer? Or, Willis Reed?
it’s as bullshit to claim that the booing ‘didn’t help’ as it is to claim that cheering does.
if bosh, or any of the raps, had 1/8th of the heart, desire, determination of wendel clark, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. he was easy to cheer for because he was one of the few ’stars’ who cared more about the game than the fans, and showed it every night. i’m embarrassed that a class act like clarky’s been besmirched by being mentioned in raptor blog.
and i’m not much of a hockey fan, and i despise the leafs. when i was a kid growing up in saskatoon, i had the chance to meet wendel (he visited our school - one of my classmate’s father worked for the blades), so i ended up following his career.
d279,
Yes, I think Colangelo heard the boos … but, I do not think he is someone that:
1. Took those boos the right way; and/or,
2. Knows how to respond properly in a situation like this.
e.g. What he NEEDS to do right now … heading toward this road trip … is STAND UP in public on behalf of Bosh & Calderon, in the face of those booing fans, say that HE ACCEPTS FULL BLAME in this situation, that he has LET DOWN both CB4 & Jose, who were each depending on HIM to construct the type of roster it will take to build a championship-calibre team, in Toronto, and to apologise for the mess that he’s created Here & Now, which will need to be fixed over an extended period of time, moving forward from this point, and require the patience of this team’s two best players, plus the fanbase that has been mis-directed, thus far.
d279….the Raptors have been booed off the floor in the past. Look where BC has taken us. A .500 team last year and on pace for the lottery this year.
yertu,
The Maple Leafs won nothing of significance with Wendel Clark as the Top Gun on their team … and it doesn’t besmirch his character nor his reputation one bit, as a player or a person, to have his name mentioned here.
Jermaine O’Neal is in the latter half of his NBA career. He was once an All-Star. He is no longer. He is now an oft-injured former All-Star who should not be a Starting Center for a team in this league that has legit designs on going to the 2nd Round of the NBA playoffs, when that team also has Chris Bosh on its player roster. Period.
Bring him off the bench. Limit his minutes, and his touches on offense. Do what Popeye Jones suggested and give those minutes, instead, to a player like Kris Humphries. Or, even to Andrea Bargnani.
Instead of getting off to terrific starts and then gradually fizzling … save O’Neal for strategic insertion moments, as the game develops, and use him properly to off-set Chris Bosh.
etc., etc., etc.
yertu,
If you don’t think cheering/booing/positive-negative energy/etc. makes a difference, in the NBA game, you’re not paying close enough attention to the words of men like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc.
this is a nightmare… sometimes don’t you just feel like you’d be better of picking another team to support?
:( it’s just a heartbreaking year for us.
Khandor you need to stop with the condescending attitude like your word is the bible. I don’t care what you think and neither does anyone else. You annoy me to be honest
Anywho, Bosh has been shut down by almost every power forward in the League. Period. That has nothing to do with match ups or playing in the Olympics but he has checked himself out of the game mentally and emotionally and is now going with the motions. This is the reason why he cant match up. Any fan will see this and hence, the boos last night.
Our coach has nothing to do with why were a bad team. We were a bad team with Sam at the helm. We lost road trips with Sam at the Helm, we lost playoff rounds with Sam. We don’t have any talent on this team.
khandor
Dec 18, 2008 12:35 pm | Permalink
endo, Bill Russell averaged less than 15 pts per game in this League, and had no Low Post game to speak of, nor a consistent perimeter jumpshot. Yet … Would you classify him as a Superstar in the NBA?
To expect a player like Chris Bosh, with Chris Bosh’s strengths and weaknesses, to be something which he’s not … is to put the blame on the wrong person.
—————————
Why do you have a need to select a player from the 1950’s and compare him to Bosh?
Joe,
1. Whether what YOU say is annoying … is not the point, now, is it?
2. When you look at this list of results you should be able to see for yourself where Mr. Bosh’s match-up advantages are to be found.
October Opponent Result
Wed 29 @ Philadelphia W 95-84
Fri 31 vs Golden State W 112-108
November Opponent Result
Sat 01 @ Milwaukee W 91-87
Wed 05 vs Detroit L 93-100
Fri 07 @ Atlanta L 92-110
Sun 09 @ Charlotte W 89-79
Mon 10 @ Boston L 87-94
Wed 12 vs Philadelphia L 96-106
Sun 16 vs Miami W 107-96
Tue 18 @ Orlando L 90-103
Wed 19 @ Miami W 101-95
Fri 21 vs New Jersey L 127-129
Sun 23 vs Boston L 103-118
Wed 26 vs Charlotte W 93-86
Fri 28 vs Atlanta W 93-88
Sun 30 @ LA Lakers L 99-112
December Opponent Result
Tue 02 @ Denver L 93-132
Fri 05 @ Utah L 87-114
Sun 07 vs Portland L 97-98
Tue 09 @ Cleveland L 94-114
Wed 10 vs Indiana W 101-88
Fri 12 @ New Jersey W 101-79
Sun 14 vs New Orleans L 91-99
Mon 15 vs New Jersey L 87-94
Wed 17 vs Dallas L 86-96
Telling people that there not informed and that they need to read your blog to get the facts is arrogant. Your not qualified to write a blog, and your not qualified to tell people that there opinions are incorrect.
Mr Smartass.
Joe,
Bill Russell played into the 60’s.
In comparison with Bosh …
As a left-handed, under-sized Center, who was 6-9 and 220 lbs, without a well-developed Low Post game and no consistent perimeter jumpshot … but with sound character, a knack for rebounding and for shot-blocking, plus a terrific intellect, imagination, and sense of humour, etc., … I don’t know, exactly, he just seems like a decent fit to me. : )
Please stop comparing Bill “11 Championships” Russell to Chris Bosh, you’re losing credibility there. By the criteria in #90 half the scrubs in the NBA would qualify to be compared with Bill Russell. I’m also glad sense of humour and whatever “imagination” means is now being considered when selecting your franchise player.
I don’t even know what the point of #88 is…so you’re saying a favorable matchup for Chris Bosh is when he’s playing a bad team..yeah, I agree with you on that one, I guess.
I think this thread has given us all the joy it can possibly give. Locking this baby up.
2 Trackbacks
[...] coach Jim Calhoun puts together a group of players that can beat any mediocre team in the NBA (eg. Raptors). UConn is ranked #2 in the country behind North Carolina. North Carolina was ranked #1 in the [...]
[...] I stumble upon a blog post that sets our field back about 6,000 years. Well, here’s one. It borders on racist, and more or less seems outraged that Chris Bosh isn’t, I don’t [...]