The Raptors have officially announced the S&T. Bryan Colangelo said:
“We all just witnessed an unprecedented moment in professional sports as these three young stars have joined forces in an attempt to completely transform this league. We are certainly sorry to see Chris leave, but we are planning to use these acquired assets to retool our roster and evolve as an organization,” said Raptors President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo.
He also wrote a letter to the fans on an official Raptors letterhead and signed it using a black pen. Discuss it here.
The Raptors get two first-round picks (we get ours back from the O’Neal deal) and we get a trade exception worth Bosh’s salary, which was about $16M. So basically, unless we actually use that trade exception, we lost Bosh for a first-round pick. The winner in all of this is Bosh himself, who now gets to sign a six-year deal since Miami will use his Bird rights. If the Raptors had not partaken in the deal, he would’ve been limited to 5 years. Miami is engineering a similar deal with Cleveland for LeBron James.
This isn’t news by any means as we all saw this coming over the last couple days, the only question was whether we’d get a player in return and that didn’t happen. I suppose whether you believe we should use that TPE to acquire more salary hinges on whether you’re of the ‘rebuild’ or ‘contend’ frame of mind. Assuming Colangelo does decide to use it, it would make sense that it be a starter on a team that’s looking to dump salary. I’ve taken the liberty to go through each NBA team (save a few that have absolutely nothing to offer), and mentioned some of the players that could be available. The criteria to get on the list is to make a high enough salary and not be a total lock on that team for next year. For example, I didn’t put Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard etc. on there. And if I missed a player that should be on the list, please don’t roast my ass in the comment section.
Atlanta
Marvin Williams – $6.7M
Charlotte
Boris Diaw – $9M
Chicago
Luol Deng – $11.3M
Cleveland
Antawn Jamison $13.3
Mo Williams: $9.3M
Dallas
Jason Terry: $10.6M
Caron Butler: $10.5M
Matt Carroll: $4.3M
Denver
Chauncey Billups: $13.1M
Nene: $11.3M
Detroit
Richard Hamilton: $12.6M
Tayshaun Prince: $11M
Golden State
Monta Ellis: $11M
Andris Biedrins: $9M
Houston
Yao Ming: $17.6M
Kevin Martin: $11.1M
Indiana
Mike Dunleavy: $10.5M
LA Clippers
Baron Davis: $13M
Chris Kaman: $11M
LA Lakers
Andrew Bynum: $13.8M
Lamar Odom: $8.2M
Milwaukee
Michael Redd: $18.3M
Minnesota
Al Jefferson: $13M
New Jersey
Devin Harris: $8.9M
New Orleans
Chris Paul: $14.9M
Emeka Okafor: $11.5M
David West: $8.2M
OKC
Nick Collison: $6.75M
Orlando
Marcin Gortat: $6.32M
Brandon Bass: $4M
Philadelphia
Elton Brand: $15.9M
Andrew Iguodala: $12.3M
Andres Nocioni: $6.8M
Phoenix
Jason Richardson: $14.4M
Steve Nash: $10.3M
Leandro Barbosa: $7.1M
Portland
Joel Przybilla: $7.4M
Greg Oden: $6.8M
Sacramento
Samuel Dalembert: $12.2M
Beno Udrih: $6.65M
San Antonio:
Tony Parker: $13.5M
Manu Ginobili: $11.8M
Utah:
Andrei Kirilenko: $17.8M
Mehmet Okur: $9.4M
Washington:
Gilbert Arenas: $17.7M
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179 Raps
Hmm…Of these players, the only ones I’d be interested in are Oden, Bynum and Bierdrins — because they are all young and talented, or at least in Oden’s case, potentially talented. Oden and Bynum, though injury prone, are on short contracts; not sure about Bierdrins. And we obviously need a centre, allowing Andrea to play PF.
Apart from them, I’d be interested in point guards (Chris Paul, of course, would be a dream come true. Could N.O. possibly even consider getting rid of him in a straight salary dump (albeit with the two draft picks we just received to sweeeten the pot a bit)? or Devin Harris. Steve Nash as well, because he’d give us a couple of years of awesome mentoring and would enhance our corporate culture immensely, and would be a shot in the arm for the franchise psychologically. The rest are either too old, too overpaid or too much of a role player, of which we already have an overabundance. Anyway, there’s my two cents.
Bynum is the only one that really jumps out at me. Maybe Monta Ellis. But its time to forget about free agency for Toronto. Just concentrate on the draft, and we’ll be a perennially fresh and up-and-coming team that may surprise any give year.
im with you im just worried when BC says re-tooling. Im acred hes ready to give away a pick for short term gain
We been “actually” drafting many players before 2007……..
Our best draft were:
VC
Bosh
Bargnani
*so far: Demar and Ed might be in list in the future*
I want this team to win something. I hate teams that always win. Lakers = Magic than Lakers = Shaq + Kobe, than Lakers = Pau + Kobe….. err even Boston…. tben next year the heat.
I rather have a team that never won a championship before gets it.
mcgrady? Peterson?
Id love to see Ellis in Toronto. If we have him as a combo guard and Turk handling the ball, he’ll become a deadly outside scorer.
Paul os gonna team with Miami when his contract is up so why bother?
Tony Parker could be interesting but i dont know what SA would want in return besides the TPE
need to include contract lengths to evaluate this properly. i like ellis too but don’t think he’s a difference maker. he’s fun to watch, though.
I think Ellis IS a difference maker, but I think he’s a handful to coach. Triano could never handle that kid. He IS Colangelo type player though, sans the volatile attitude.
i like tony parker, and especially steve nash!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nash is like, 50 years old, hire him as a coach down the line, but don’t sign him for a farewell tour.Whoever they use the exception on, he should be a player who projects to be integral to the future as well as the present.
Raptors again get the short end of the shitstick … and now the Eastern Conference will be treading water while the Miami Heat are flying in the stratosphere of a greaaaat dynasty of victorious abomination.
It seems somewhat redundant even discussing what new players are coming to the Raptors … and the season will be anti-climactic … soooo obvious.
Didn’t NOH say that Emeka was taken, that they would give away Collison too?
there was a rumor going around about something like that
Al Jefferson anyone? Btw, if we trade this TPE can we only trade the 16 mill as a whole? Or can it be split, like 13 for TP and 4 mill for brandon bass?
I think we should definitely look at him. he is my first choice. A new 20-10 guy to replace our fallen one. Although 20-10 is overrated, talent is not and Al Jefferson is about to put his knee problems behind him. It takes 2 years for young players *cough J O’neal cough*. I’ve been through 2 ACLs myself and I’m 25. I should know a little about it.
Let’s forget about this Bargnani gets to play at his natural 4 position crap. He can’t guard 4s in this league nowdays. He needs to stay back and contest centres one-on-one and get the odd block or give a chance to a teammate to get the defensive rebound.
Hima and AB in the frontcourt defensively? Horrible!
BC: “… produce the WINNER you are hoping for.”
What utter, unadulterated bullsh!t .. coming from the MLSE..!!!
I bet season ticket sales will tank and jersey sales will vanish..!!!
The value of the Raptors has prolly plummeted several hundred million$$$$.
The 2010-11 Raptors will be even worse than last seasons debacle.
Now we know that Bosh and Lebron had decided to leave their teams last year, if not 3 years ago.
The Miami Heat spectacle is a disgrace and demeans the NBA .. and fans should boycott the Eastern Conference. It’s an abomination.
Somebody has to tell it like it is ….!
You’re right, someone should tell it like it is, You’re an idiot! The Raps will be just fine. Most ticket holder are lovers of the game and will enjoy watching the BIG 3 playing together in Miami and how our young group of players will define the Raps new identity.
Ahhh … the voice of the consummate tribal honking fan … we still love our Ratpors, and even the troika axis of evil in the devil Heat..!!!
Which again goes to prove that bball neurotics will cling to even the last hope to satisfy their delusional needs … soooo obvious.
FAQ, could you please tell me what tribe do you belong??? Spiting around your poison make you to belong to the very islolated and small and desperate tribe.
So now it is official – you are tribal fan too.
dalmatino … I am the voice of reason, rationality, respect for the game of basketball .. that’s my “tribe” … and yes, it’s a small and very isolated tribe on this fine forum … me and maybe FLUXLAND … a tribe of “two” … do you want to join us …????!!!!!!!
no way, I am not in that sado-mazo thing.
Anyway, thank you for invitation.
I’d say there’s been more then a few people coming around to reason and reality, with respect to MLSE, over the past few weeks.
What worries me is the “hey I’m so pumped to watch the Young Gunz develop… I mean who cares about winning” crowd, who is undoubtedly allowing MLSE and BC to set the bar of success even lower – we are back to making the playoffs being the holy grail for this team – which is simply pathetic. As long as they don’t end up in the basement next year, these clowns will be talking about how amazing the Raps are, given the situation. Toronto Raptors – where the only consistency is mediocrity. Raptoronto was right, it’s these f yahoos enabling MLSE to put out this garbage and make a profit.
Yeah .. now we’ll see if the Raptor fans are as stupid as the Leaf fans … and letting the MLSE print money while stringing along the tribal honking fans who are seeking/giving love love love to their favourite hero … who will it be now … Deemar?? Davis?? or veteran Bargnanani …???!!!!
I mean, just look at the current roster filled with 2nd and 3rd stringers and with very little upside to the bunch:
Hidayet Turkoglu
Jose Calderon
Andrea Bargnani
Amir Johnson
Reggie Evans
Jarrett Jack
Linus Kleiza
Marcus Banks
DeMar DeRozan
Marco Belinelli
Ed Davis
Sonny Weems
Solomon Alabi
Would you want to be on this roster, FLUX … it’s got “LOSERS” stapled to their foreheads … it’s laughable ….!!!!
The Mi-SHeat will mangle/dice/destroy this Ratpor ‘team’… unless the fans throw tomatoes on the court to stop the game or somebody phones in a bomb threat and empties the ACC …. a game would be a travesty … believe it.
That’s the genius of BC – you get enough guys from different countries and you are continually guaranteeing a certain % of the population to watch, or watch more often. After all, TO is a melting pot and thereby everyone has a fav. hero. Win win for everyone.
This also creates the constant near (verbal) death matches on the forums and subsequent non stop frenzy over this team – to see who’s hero “brought it” that night and who was right. I don’t need to mention the Turkish guy on here screaming about how all of us are idiots and Hedo is a gift to basketball, the numerous Bargs is an All Star at PF 2011 cries, or Jose top 5 pg in L BS, with some Reggie is an “intimidator” propaganda.
Selling genius that BC, I tell ya.
That roster list makes my eyes bleed. All I’m gonna say is that if I hear anything about “run and gun”, worst defensive team in all of history basketball badge will, fittingly, belong to the Raptors.
I’m with you guys, FLUX and FAQ. Let’s boycott. No more following the Raptors in any way, shape or form. Let’s put our money where our mouths are. We OUTTA HERE for goodses, right boys? Until MLSE sells to an owner serious about winning fat frickin rings we are GONZO! You won’t see us round these parts, cause we principled and stuff. We the truth-tribe! And the resta you suckas ain’t worth our truth-tellin time! Yall tribal honkers, or as I like to calls ya: the tribal tooters (sorry FAQ but you gotta admit: CATCHY, right?)and you can toot-toot-toot your stupid faces off for all we care, HAHA ROOFED! So lates, right my brothas?!LET THE MOVEMENT BEGIN! We gone, like popcorn! Don’t bother responding cuz that would be sooooo obvious and besides we won’t be comin back to this site so we won’t even READ it! HAHA we pwned all yall!
Truth-tribe OUT!
Troika axis of evil… LMFAO! FAQ, you are the best man! Great laugh.
To Fluxland and FAQ
I think you two should get a room…on second thought, I forgot you two share one which is padded for your protection at the insane asylum.
Try to enjoy next season without hurting yourselves and always take your meds.
I held out but will renew my season seats ( 4) that I have owned since inception as I believe in the rebuilding process way more tha the building around RuPaul process we’ve seen for the last number of years. I like the talent on this team and look forward to watching them develop.
I agree with Leez. Wishful thinking for Oden and Bynum. Possibility with Nash. Realistically I would love to get a combination of Darren Collison and Andris Biedrins/Marcin Gortat. Cheers! :)
I like Iguodala. He is one of the best defenders in the league at the 3. Of course, it’s a bit of a waste to have both him and Turk on the same roster.
Iguodala will not play for the Raptors .. forget it …!!!
No bandaids! Save it until next June and see if you can find a team willing to dump a lottery pick in order to get rid of an unwanted contract.
For thoes who still think we can/should contend, let me ask you this:
Can you beat the Heat in a 7 game playoff round?
if not, you are not making it to the finals and therefore no championship.
THUS
Let us play an energetic, creative brand of basketball.Its not even about the long or the short term anymore, its just about exciting basketball. So bring in Steve Nash, anyone that can wow us and rake in some reg.season wins.
and btw, Steve Nash can find his way to South Beach for the minimum salary too.
cool, i didn’t know they don’t filter html tags
You mean we should just give up tryieng in the next six years?
They are very good, but probably not better than celtics and no answer for howard. Also, in pro sports, the best team on paper doesn’t always win the championships… that’s why we don’t just hand over the title after the season’s end, we have the playoffs.
alert(“hello”);
no just the next 2… since Bosh’s knee will hold up for that long.
The Heat will demolish every team in the NBA.. and if they do lose a game, it will be cataclysmic.. 82-0.. believe it …!!!
Is that what you want to live and love with … a freak league …????!!!!!!
Hmm…Defense wins in the playoffs. I suspect that this Miami teamwill not be as good as you think it will. Ball movement and help defense are glaring issues at this point.
I look at this construct and do not see a team. Maybe this is a dynasty and I’m wrong. I’ll wait and see.
Who can defend against Wade, Bosh and LeBron … name the team …??!!!!
the defending champs, that’s who. L.A. wins every match-up except for small forward.
PG: Fisher against… Chalmers? L.A. WIN
SG: Kobe vs. Dwade … L.A. WIN
SF: Artest vs. LeBron … LeBron will obviously win HEAT WIN
PF: Gasol vs. Bosh … gasol is infinitely better than bosh. he’s more skilled, a better rebounder, defender, better shot-blocker. you name it. also he’s no soft. L.A. WIN
C: Bynum vs. Incumbent L.A. WIN
basketball is a game against match-ups and although defending wade, lebron and bosh is easier said than done, the defending champs will beat the Heat … whether in a regular season match-up or a finals matchup
Only the Lakers can defend against the Mi-SHeat Monster Team ???? …. what about the other 28 teams …????
The Mi-SHeat will destroy the Lakers during the regular season and any playoff series.
I do not think that Heat will get anyway close to winning so many games (in a single season). Remember, historically, and realistically, two out of 3 players that are expected to carry offensive, defensive, and leadership load are injury prone and were subject to surgical interventions on crucial mechanical parts. Given the other important fact that the two out of the mentioned three are now scientifically proven malevolent quitters who tanked with far more competetive rosters, I would rethink the number of projected wins for the Miami team this year.
We definitely need a point guard as the three we have are not starters and cannot run the floor.
I think we might be looking at this wrong. It’s easier to make a list of cash strapped teams. Look at the young talent they have, especially at the wing position, and then look at what albatross contracts we need to take to pry the young talent away. Although not a wing, Collison andf Okafor, is one example of this…
I agree whole-heartedly – this team doesn’t need to trade for the Terrys, Diaws and Hamiltons of the league until this group is older and ready to compete/win. It does us no good to stick them on the roster now, it just worsens our draft position and takes minutes away from the younglings.
And when was the last time we had a shooting guard? Mike James?
Depressing list….plausible list.
W/o injuries, Jefferson would be a great replacement for Bosh, great.
For nostalgia/sentimentality/this could actually work cause he’s that good, Steve Nash + T.O. would forget about Bosh in an instant, Nash would kill in corporate money and B.C. would get an almost immediate extension even though he’s a back sprain or a couple years from retirement.
The dreaded, wince in anticipation cuz you’re pretty sure it’s him, Andris Beidrins
I mean I’m probably the only guy that’ll say this but I dont want Steve Nash on the raptors. You guys talk about winning, what has steve nash won with Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson? Absolutely nothing! With a youth movement going on Nash for anything other than the MLE is too much IMO.
EXACTLY! the raps need to surround their young guys with a winning mentality, guys with rings – WINNERS! like adam morrison – i hear he’s available.
Dennis Rodman .. anyone ..??!!!!
adam morrison,,,,, i hope your joking!
He was beeing sarcastic , Morrison won a championship with LA last year even though he is a complete bust . Nash may never have won a championship but he certainly could help this team make the playoffs.
Adam Morrison is a Type 1 diabetic who must inject himself with insulin. Off the court, Morrison regulates his blood sugar with an insulin pump attached to his abdomen. It’s a wonder he can even play NBA bball …!!!!
RR’s legal counsel would like to remind you, FAQ, of the agreed-upon ‘minimum irritating FAQ-isms’ required in each of your posts. This recent post does not contain one of the following:
‘tribal-honking fans’
‘soooooo obvious’
‘believe it!’
There will only be one warning.
thinking Nash is not a ‘winner’ because he doesn’t have a ring is nonesense.
People and this whole concept of ‘if you don’t have rings you are a nobody (or not that good)’ is completely false
he is one of the best point guards to ever play the game. Pound for pound one of the toughest SOBs to ever play. And I don’t think anyone has ever made so many players around them better.
Oh yeah and he is a humble, charitable, hard working, moral and ethical class clown to boot.
/agree
I dont know about everyone else but I would love to see Monta Ellis come to the raptors! This guy can score with the best of him, no need to worry about his D right now, he’s the best guy out there to use this on so he’s the only one that im 100% on everyone else is iffy, even though I think Igoudala is a stud and i would be just happy to see him in a raptors uniform.
Monta Ellis is just behind Beasley as a problem waiting to happen. No way this team needs a selfish ball hog with issues. Nash would be way better and improve the young talent on this team huge in the next couple of years.
First, I think BC did a good job standing ground and not taking back Beasley. He was not in a good position to negotiate because Bosh committed to heat on national TV and it was whatever the Heat wanted to give or nothing. Seemed other teams try to avoid taking Beasley like he is the Plague despite his potential and reasonable contract (he was traded for the second round pick, the swap of first round picks will be several years down the road).
On a different subject, is it only me or others think the Heat might fail spectacularly at some point during the season or post-season. I agree they have a good chance to win a championship, but they are just likely to blow-up as well. Beside the obvious uncertainty of chemistry, the immaturity of its star player(s), there is the problem of talents. Boston’s big 3 in the year that they win had Rondo and Perkins to round out starting 5, and Posey and Leon Powe off the bench. That means Miami needs at least 4 above average to average players to compliment their stars, and it is very difficult that they even get one or two this year.
The biggest loser might be Chris Bosh. When you have Wade/Lebron + Bosh, you have a foundation to build a championship team, you can add pieces that fit. When you have Wade + Lebron + bosh, you have redundancy. Miami is in a good position, they can always trade one of the three because who wouldn’t want a Bosh or a Wade. But Bosh is not when everything goes wrong. Since Bosh is no longer a free agent, Miami can trade him wherever. I will not be surprised when after a year, after Miami sell lots of tickets and jerseys, after their team falling short next year, bosh is trade to some star craved franchise like the Nets of Timberwolves for Harris + Favors or Flynn + Al jefferson. If he thinks Toronto is bad, wait until he got to Minisoda.
All of a sudden Bosh announces hs personal stats are likely to drop but it’s about the team and wins. What a freakin RuPaul he is!! What about some of that attitude when he was here? I hope he gets his ass kicked every time he plays and other teams treat him like the RuPaul he is. The most expensive garbage man on any team. I hope the chemistry fails.
Bosh and LeGoon have “no trade” clauses in their reduced money contracts … believe it.
i may be completely wrong here, but i don’t think no-trade clauses are something that can be included in contracts unless certain requirements are met – such as a minimum period of time with the same franchise. as far as i know, kobe is the only player in the L with a NC clause, and it’s only there because he’s been with them for the required number of years.
You have to play in the league 10 years before you can have a no-trade clause in your contract. That doesn’t apply to any of them.
Then they have a “mutual pact” agreement, that if any of them are traded, the others are traded too … ever think of that …???!!!!
Bosh and LeBron would be fools if they gave the Mi-SHeat owner carte blanche on the contracts for trading them capriciously.
Do you think that Bosh would collude with Wade and Riley, just to be traded to say Minny in a couple of years????
These contracts are “till death do us part” in Miami … believe it !!!!
FAQ,
funny you bring that up, I was just talking to a guy about this today. You think Riles conned Bosh into coming there so he can get Wade and LBJ together?
I can see Riles dumping his ass in a year or two, if he’s holding them down. Trade his ass for 3 or 4 Riley types and then go to work for the chip. Bosh is simply not the same breed as the type Riles likes, plus those knees (unless the heat helps) are not going to get any better.
It was all cunningly orchestrated by Riley, first bring in Bosh and then making it look like LeBoob wanted to join his ‘friends’ in Miami … to have ‘fun’ because it’s not about the ‘money’ shit …. it’s all soooo obvious now.
Only the deluded tribal honkers who still believe what LeBoob said on TV last Thursday … and they are posting in a daze and denial that their home team has absolutely zero chance of ‘winning it all’ .. unless you live in Miami … then you sneer at the rest of the NBA with their bought stacked team of disgusting conniving mendacious ‘all-shits’ …!!!!
In all this doom and gloom let us do some fantasizing:
B.Co.your mission is to use the picks and pieces we have to assemble the following roster:
PG Steve Nash
SF Andre Iguodala
PF Amir Johnson
SG Caron Butler
C Yao Ming
This means byebye: Calderon,Ed Davis,Turk,Andrea 3 1st round picks and our 16mil Trade Exception.
Here is how we do it.
Andrea for Nash straight up
Ed Davis and Turk for Iggy
Trade Exception + 2 1st rounders for Butler
Calderon + rest of the trade exception + our own 1st rounder for Yao
Yikes. I think you might have underestimated the other GMs. Unless BC goes on his knees and perform 1000 bjs to each one, it ain’t happening.
Calvin go back to bed!
Nash won’t win a thing in T.O., xcept the hearts of the media, and some entertaining games, maybe some in the playoffs. He’d be good for business, he’s a great role model, and at the end of the day Nash as a raptor is good for basketball in Canada. Actually good for the franchise vs. many other options, no.
i’m sorry, i must be missing something here, unless everyone assumes that BC is gonna be able to trade jose for a cheap, awesome young PG.
what are the ‘many other options?’
look, i don’t for a second believe there’s any chance nash ends up in TO, but for argument’s sake, let’s say it did happen. let’s say the raps trade jack & use the TPE to acquire nash. how is that not better than their current situation? so what if nash only gives them 2 years at 80% of what he’s done the last 5, and who cares if they can’t find a taker for jose. who cares if they’d be spending ~$20M on the PG position – it would reset the balance; jose goes back to be an excellent backup PG, and the raps get an actual starting PG.
no, the D doesn’t get any better out that position, but it doesn’t get any worse, IMO (jack/jose aren’t really any different than nash/jose).
plus, it’s not a long term thing – nash would be winding down his career right around the time the raps young guys would actually (hopefully) be ready to compete; the difference is, they’d have spent two years learning the game from one of the all-time great PGs. hell, maybe nash then stays on & becomes an assistant or, more likely, a front-office guy. i’m not even considering his nationality, because it doesn’t matter where he’s from, he’s a fucking HOFer who still has legs. it’s not about trying to ‘win now,’ but about developing your young pieces, and i can’t think of a guy i’d rather have acting as mentor than nash.
to those who argue that nash deserves a chance to compete for a chip before he retires, i completely agree, and feel that if he is moved, it would be to a contender. but honestly, the suns are in almost as bad a position as the raps are right now; in fact, nash might be the only thing keeping them from sinking to our level.
I am surprised about the draft picks and the trade exception/exemption. But, i think BC should not pull his typical flashy BC move. Quit frontin’. We will suck next year. Let’s let our young core and sophomore coach play out the year, however ugly it will be. Personally, i rather see that than being a playoff pretender. BC, don’t put yourself first, put the team first.
+1. Given the looming CBE/lockout, that TPE might be most valuable next year at this time when free-spending teams are looking to offload. I’d keep it in the hopes of getting a 2nd lottery pick in exchange for taking a contract another team decides it can no longer afford.
I’ve got to say, BC isn’t doing terribly so far this off-season in cleaning up the mess HE made in the 1st place. Not saying he should stay but gotta give limited credit where it’s due. We’ll see how the rest of the year plays out.
I’m going to buck the angst trend and be a bit optimistic (whether its realistic to be or not). When VC left, we didn’t have the greatest roster left to build on. With Bosh going, we have lots of youth and athleticism, and we’ve got back a few 1st round picks as well (though one is the one we gave away in first place). If BC can work the trade exception as well as ship out Turk and Calderon for some parts that fit what we already have, we may have a team that doesn’t completely suck now (i.e. 35-39 wins), plays exciting BBall, and be well positioned to evolved into something good over next few years…..I’ve never subscribed to the “tank it all and hope for high draft picks” way of developing…how did that work out for the Knicks? We will definitely see what Bargs is made of finally…he has had his years to develop, has a coach that believes in him, and the offense is now his, so more time for excuses. He needs to perform at an all-star level and show some leadership ability this season from game 1, or were sunk.
Okafor and Collison please.
ohh, tough call on what to do w/ the TPE.
I guess the prudent, franchise-building move would be to wait till mid season, and then pluck a high-priced, long term contract from a team out of the playoff picture, and leverage a lottery pick or young talent as well. More lists of potential available players will have to be reviewed.
The other option is to try and make an impact move that will help us win now. What about the TPE for Okafor + Collision? Wouldn’t a starting lineup of Okafor/Bargs/Turk/DeDe/Jack, with Johnson/Davis/Weems/Collison off the bench make us a competent team? Wouldn’t Okafor set a defensive presence for us in the middle? Wouldn’t Collison fit in well with the Young Gunz?
We all know that CP3 is going to force his way out of NO, probably to play with D12 in Orlando. When he does that, NO will definetly want to dump salary and move on. So the question is; do we wait for CP3/NO management to decide its time to rebuild, or do we force the issue by trading for Okafor?
Also, IMO, there is no way we should make a deal w/ Minny for Al Jefferson, unless we sweeten the pot a little and extract Rubio as well. Jefferson is an offensive player, we have enough offence. We need a quality starter to come in and play solid defense, box out, compete for rebounds, and pick up easy buckets on tip-ins etc.
As for the rest of the list, here’s my No’s:
Odom
Deng
Hamilton
Davis
Kaman
Redd
Brand
Iggy
Nash
Dalembert
AK47
Okur
Arenas
10 players to consider (in no particular order):
Note: There were actually not that many useful players on the list, so some of these are major stretches.
Nene – $22.9 mil over 2 years, 2nd year player option
Not one of the top players I’d consider, but worth a look. Has had a positive impact on a good team. He might leave in 1-2 years though, and isn’t exactly young though.
Andris Biedrins – $36.0 mil over 4 years, 4th year player option
Like Nene, not a must have. Has had positive defensive impact on a bad team, but has also been a negative impact on team’s offense. Good rebounder though and still very young. Very controllable as well considering decent contract and age (he won’t be too old by the time the Raptors compete).
Chris Kaman – $23.5 mil over 2 years
Despite being known as an offensive big, has had a negative impact on his team’s offense the last three years. Surprisingly, he has also had a big positive defensive impact. Again, could leave very soon and not exactly young.
***Chris Paul – $49.1 mil over 3 years, 3rd year player option
There is no question here. If someone offers you a young, elite PG capable of leading a team to greatness, you ask them where to sign. It doesn’t matter that he might leave in 3 years, or even decline the player option and leave in 2, you commit now and worry later.
Emeka Okafor – $52.2 mil over 4 years
Good defender (but not all-league defensive impact) at the 5 whose deal would not be as bad for a contending team. Not exactly young either.
Marcin Gortat – $28.1 mil over 4 years
Nice piece for a contender, but not sure he’s the answer for the Raptors. We already have something similar (contract-wise, as well) in Amir Johnson. Not as good as Amir either, IMO, but he can play the 5, and as you can see from all the names above, that’s an area we need to improve.
Andrew Iguodala – $56.5 mil over 4 years, 4th year player option
Would make more sense if we still had Bosh and wanted to make a playoff run, but he’s still young and a decent defender. Can play the 3 and could teach our young wings a thing or two. The last two years of his deal will suck though.
Joel Przybilla – $7.4 mil over 1 year
Another center to consider. Overpaid but his deal expires this year. Offensive liability at the same time as being a very good defensive big, but only makes sense if we need someone like him to anchor the defense in a rebuilding year. If he resigns for cheap and our bigs can learn from him, might be worth considering.
***Greg Oden – $6.8 mil over 1 year, RFA next year
Last year showed glimpses of being a good defensive big, while being an offensive contributor. Is the kind of 5 you draft #1 overall and build around, assuming he can stay on the floor. Injuries and foul trouble have both been problems.
Andrei Kirilenko – $17.8 mil over 1 year
Good defensive wing, and might be useful on a contender. Past his prime though. Salary owed him is ridiculous, albeit only for one year.
Mehmet Okur – $20.3 mil over 2 years
Like Bargnani and Belinelli, Turkoglu needs his pair. Just kidding.
5 players who some might want to consider but who we should avoid:
Monta Ellis – $44.0 mil over 4 years, 4th year player option
Flashy but inefficient scorer who hasn’t had a positive impact on a bad team since 2007-2008. Could be a good defender but doesn’t want to be. Last season, his team was 0.075pp worse on offense with him, as well as 0.039pp worse on defense with him. That’s a good -9 point differential in your typical game; you won’t find a negative impact as clear as this one.
Al Jefferson – $42.0 mil over 3 years
He’s young and is a 20-10 player, but isn’t an impact player compared to Bosh (and that says something). Contribution to offense is questionable, and his defense is the last thing we need on the Raptors. Also has injury issues.
Devin Harris – $26.8 mil over 3 years
Reasonable contract for a good scoring PG who actually contributes positively to team’s offense, but despite being labeled a good defender, his Calderonesque numbers for the last 3 years show the opposite. Before last year, his offensive contribution outweighed his defensive liabilities, and while I might be prone to give him a pass for last year’s debacle, one has to wonder how any point guard of his supposed caliber could lead a team with one of the best young centers to such a horrid season.
Andres Nocioni – $21.0 mil over 3 years, 3rd year team option
Tough, gutsy player, and deal isn’t that bad for a rebuilding team that needs a veteran, but unless he’s the only return we can get for Turkoglu, we have plenty of offensively talented veterans who are lacking defensively.
Steve Nash – $22.0 mil for 2 years
Very reasonable deal considering what he brings to a team, and his offensive contribution cannot be questioned. He’s also not as bad defensively as people think, but unless we care more about providing him with a farewell tour than rebuilding through youth, he’ll just get us into the playoffs twice with two first round exits, accompanied by two very mediocre draft picks.
Short version:
Yes – Paul, Oden
Maybe (rebuild) – Biedrins, Iguodala, Przybilla
Maybe (retool) – Nene, Kaman, Okafor, Gortat, Kirilenko
No – Ellis, Jefferson, Harris, Nocioni, Nash
Not worth even thinking about – Anyone not mentioned
J, from that list, here are players that will be good options:-
1. Nene – one year rental, 2nd year team option, rebuild, pull off OKC heist in 2010 draft with approx. $21m in cap space(including approx. $10m Reggie and Banks contract).
2. Emeka Okafor – want to compete for playoffs(not advisable), offer Collison from NOH to sweeten pot, team of future, starting PF for grabs, PG of future in Collison, contend.
3. Joel Pryzbilla – one year rental at cheap price of $7.4m, can defend, have a big man coach in Alex English that can develop his offense like he did for Amir, can be had cheap after one year rental at $5-6m(in new CBA, max contracts likely approx. $12m), can pull off OKC heist too with approx. $17.4m in cap space including approx. $10m in Reggie and Banks expirings, center of the future, rebuild.
4. Andrei Kirilenko or Sammy Dalembert – one year rental, can defend, rebound and block(in Dalembert`s case), can be had for cheap in Kirilenko`s case, can pull off OKC heist too with approx. $27.8m in cap space(+/- $15m, don`t know how much we are over the cap) in Kirilenko`s case or approx. $21m in cap space including approx. $10m in Reggie and Banks expirings, rebuild.
Best case scenario – Joel Pryzbilla(one year rental, can be had for cheap, center of the future) or Andrei Kirilenko(one year rental, huge cap space to pull off OKC heist).
No – Monta Ellis(Inefficient ball-hog), Al Jefferson(horrible defender at his position, stat-padder on a terrible team), Greg Oden(injuries, another Sam Bowie in the making), Chris Paul(will leave to Miami anyway next year when his contract is up)
Smushmush,
I’m pretty sure Nene’s 2nd year is a player option, so unless he opts-out it will be a two year rental.
Getting Collison would definitely make Okafor a lot more desirable, but I don’t know if New Orleans is as good a trade partner as many fans here think. Depending on how many more players they decide to sign (they only need 2 more minimum), and what those players sign for, they could already be under the luxury tax level, and doing a straight dump of Okafor and Collison would basically mean they’ve given up on contending (I don’t think any pieces we could give back would convince Chris Paul they haven’t given up).
I also think Przybilla is what he is. He’s been in the league long enough that his offensive game isn’t likely to improve, but it’s his defense that I’m high about anyway. Having a responsible defender at the 5 would help the rest of the youngsters play proper D, and if Alabi can learn to have the kind of defensive impact that Przybilla brings, that’s a win right there.
We’re also not likely to be able to get AK47 unless Utah agrees to a trade of players, because the TPE credit cannot be combined with the 125%+$100k traded player exception. I just picked players off Arsenalist’s list regardless of whether it would fit in our TPE credit, because you never know if a trade can be worked out some other way.
As for Greg Oden, it doesn’t really matter to us that he was Portland’s failed #1 overall — his value diminished under Portland’s watch, so as long as we aren’t buying high, it might be worth it. Obviously, the team’s doctors will want to run their tests and what not, just to be sure that his injuries have just been coincidental rather than a chronic condition. He’s not only young enough to be part of our rebuild, but he showed during his limited time last year to be a defensive presence, and if we can buy low (Oden and Przybilla in a straight salary dump, for instance) from a team that is probably tired of his injuries and has a logjam with Camby on the team as well, the reward could be all ours. Oden and Davis could be as great a defensive pairing as we hoped Bosh and Bargnani to be on the offensive end.
I’d find it tough to believe that by not adding, or moving, anyone else on their roster that Chris Paul thinks they are trying to contend (and they have already said they want to dump salary).
If thats the case, and there is the concern that Chris Paul might leave, is it not logical to move him and let Collison play.
and if thats the case, the Raps should make a play on Chris Paul. (although I think Collison is much more likely to be moved than Paul… but either way I hope BC has his nose all up in that)
One way or another I will be VERY suprised if one of the two aren’t moved by the end of this year (or even offseason)
I forgot to mention, while it was great what OKC did with their cap space, it won’t be as easy for us for several reasons:
1) 2010 was probably the best FA class in a long time. Even if Carmelo doesn’t sign his extension, I don’t see teams going crazy (giving away draft picks) next off-season to clear cap room the way Chicago or Miami did.
2) If, for whatever reason, some teams do want to clear cap room, it would be better to keep the TPE credit intact for that purpose. Acquiring a one-year rental player limits our trade window to before the trade deadline, after which the rental player would no longer be valuable except in a S&T. It would also limit us in terms of what we might get back in advance, as any team seeking to trade for our expiring will likely be above the cap, so we may have to take players back that we don’t necessarily want. That may happen too with the TPE, but it would at least be more flexible.
J,
I’d move Gortat into the rebuild section, and I’m not sure Iguodala belongs in the rebuild camp, but other than that, that’s a bang on assessment.
Yeah, the main problem is a lot of the players on that list are better suited for a contending team and I was trying to come up with some that might work for a rebuild, even if they are a stretch.
Iguodala is definitely a retool addition, like you suggest, but if I had to choose between Iguodala and Turkoglu for a rebuild, I’d go with Iguodala for sure. My thinking is that they youngsters could learn a lot more from Iggy than from Hedo, and even rebuilding teams need good players so the youngsters have proper role models (hence Przybilla to anchor down the D) and also to ease some of the pressure; otherwise, they’re at risk of simply being one of many bad young teams with no direction (e.g. Minnesota). While the dollar figures of Iggy’s contract is less than desirable for a rebuild, it is also long enough (and Iggy young enough) that we might be a good, young contender by the end of it, and we can decide then whether he fits in our plans or not. If we actually had a chance at Baines, then obviously Iggy would cause a logjam, but I think our draft position next year will have us looking more at PGs like Irving or Knight.
And Gortat, well, I could live with Amir getting big $$ because he has some upside and was a really efficient player last year, but I’m not sure we need more role players making $7 mil a year. Other people here might be more high on Gortat than me, but I don’t see him being more than a backup big on a good team.
re. al jeff – he’s actually one of the better low-post offensive players in the L, so i’m not sure how his ‘contribution to the offense’ would be considered questionable, since that (low post offense) is going to be one of the elements lacking in next year’s team.
I find it questionable given the combination of his salary and his on-court/off-court offensive impact on the ‘Wolves the last three years (-0.5, +2.7, +0.4 over the last 3 years — compare to Bosh’s +4.0, +8.0, +9.0 over same period). Of course, stats don’t paint the whole picture but it’s certainly curious how the team suffers such a small offensive drop-off (if at all) when he’s riding the bench.
Looking at it another way, while Bosh or other top offensive big men tend to propel their team’s offense from an average/mediocre ppp to something above 1.1+ ppp, the ‘Wolves have pretty piss poor ppps with Jefferson on the floor (1.024, 1.084, 1.045), so it’s not the relative stats from the first paragraph are hiding some great offensive backup PF, and if we look at the team’s top 5-man units from each year, Jefferson’s low ppp is clearly his own doing as he is all over the spectrum in offensive performance. It’s very clear though that Flynn was a big reason for the team’s poor offense with Jefferson on the floor, and while this excuse might be used last year (because Flynn and Jefferson were usually together), it doesn’t explain why he couldn’t fare much better than his sub using the same shitty PGs the previous years.
Because his contract is already less than desirable, the above indications would point me towards obtaining someone with fewer question-marks, especially when you consider his defense.
On 2nd thought, maybe Monta Ellis *would* be a good investment. Given that I think he’s bad for the team, he might help us lose a few more games and obtain better draft position.
Okafor as long as Collison is included.
I’m optimistic about this team.
I thought for the longest time many fans were questioning Bosh as the centerpiece of our franchise and in our hearts, we wanted change because he couldn’t get us out of the first round of the playoffs. Well, now Bosh is gone and with this new TPE, we have an opportunity to get a new centerpiece. So why is so many complaining at the lost of Bosh? How quickly we forget.
I don’t think Bass or Gortat are the answer, but if Orlando matches Chicago’s offer for JJR they are definitely going to be looking to dump salary…
Basketball is a different sport than Baseball,Football,Hocky,Soccer
there are only 5 people on the floor, if 3 of which can kill you any time they wanted, and compound that with the 3 play off one another, round them out with good standstill shooters and rebounders. They will rock any team.
The BIG 3 are all elite defensively(bosh not so much but pretty good still). None of them have a injury problem, and Wade has a big heart while Bosh has loved the roll of important role player since Georgia Tech.
In addition, the FA signing period is only 2 days old, quickly run through your head the number of all star/very good players who wont mind playing in Miami for 1-2 million dollars or even the minimum.
This team will not lose next season unless a team shoots lights out from 3.
BTW, im a long time reader, you all are great~
Bosh defense is inferior
The Heat unless they sign Miller have no three point shooters. While Wade and Lebron can make a three they are not good three points shooters at all
Career Three Point FG%
==============================
1. Wade—-29%
2. James—33%
The strength of the these three is getting to the free throw line
Career FGA Per Game
===========================
1. James—9.0
2. Wade—-9.2
3. Bosh—-7.4
———————–
Total FTA per Game—25.6
===============================
So clearly their strength is getting to the free throw line. Their weakness is in making threes.
The way to beat the Heat is simple. Zone them. This solution is so simple that even a five year old can figure it out.
Corrected for typos
How To Beat the Miami Heat
The Heat unless they sign Miller have no three point shooters. While Wade and Lebron can make a three they are not good three points shooters at all
Career Three Point FG%
==============================
1. Wade—-29%
2. James—33%
3. Miller—-40% but has averaged only 1.8 3PFG per game for his career.
The strength of these three is getting to the free throw line
Career FT Made Per Game
===========================
1. James—9.0
2. Wade—-9.2
3. Bosh—-7.4
———————–
Total FTM per Game—25.6
===============================
So clearly their strength is getting to the free throw line. Their weakness is in making threes.
The Heat also right now have a weak interior defense
The way to beat the Heat is simple. Pound the ball inside on offense and Zone them on defense. This solution is so simple that even a five year old can figure it out.
+1, the team is poorly constructed on defense and there is to much redundancy on offense.
The team is poorly constructed simply because they have no players… but when they do fill out their roster it will be tough to beat (almost regardless of who they put in there)
Lebron and Wade are probably the two best defenders in the league at their position.
On offense, both have shown an ability and willingness to pass (regardless of what people think about Lebron he is still one of the most unselfish stars in the game, and has never hesitated to give up the ball)
I hope I’m wrong, but short of them having 9 other completely incompetent guys, its likely gonna be a team that beats down 80% of the league, and still has to be considered the favorite coming in.
I’m confused..how are the lakers not the team to beat?
They’ve won 2 straight titles, Kobe is better than Wade, Ron Artest would break his own leg in order to stop Lebron, and Pau is better than Bosh in almost every way.
Nevermind Bynum, Lamar, Phil, and the other guys they’ve had in the system for years.
I hate the Lakers as much as the next guy, but I couldn’t imagine how much Kobe (a real competitor) is chomping at the bit to put those three in their place.
he might be chomping at the bit, and they may win again next year.
I definetely wouldn’t count them out.
A thousand things could happen between now and next June, but if I had to put my money down right now it would be tough not to take the Heat.
Remember Boston… everyone asked how are these 3 gonna play together, will it work, what about the supporting cast etc etc.
And as good as Ray Ray, PP and KG are (were) they don’t hold a torch to Lebron and Wade (Bosh is just the candles on the cake)
Like I said I hope it goes completely wrong and they all look like fools for it. But I would still bet on them (if i was a betting man that is)
Their strength is getting to the free throw line because the reffereeing in the NBA is the worst of any pro sport. King Douche and RuPaul get way too many calls, and if the refs give all three every call then the league is screwed.
I’d like to know what D-Wade and LBJ’s 3pt % are when they’re not being covered by 5 guys out there, which was the point of them playing on the same team.
I think you’re absolutely correct about the foul shooting. The New Heat Order is going to wipe most teams off the floor just by getting to the line, fouling out the other team’s good players.
If I may say so, I think you’re being extremely unrealistic about the New Heat Order. Three guys who can get their own shots any time they want and are essentially unstoppable on the same team in their primes? Up until now according to Dave Berri’s stats, Pippen/Jordan/Grant has been the most productive three players on one team. With all due respect to Pippen and Grant, they’re not in the same universe as Wade and Bosh. We all saw what Bosh did last year before he got hurt. This team is going to blow the bell curve of every stat we have.
By Berri’s numbers, all by themselves the SuperFriends are going to account for 57 wins, but I think it will be higher than that. And there is no defensive scheme that can stop three prime scorers on the floor at once. Hollinger’s numbers have them winning 61 games (by themselves, without teammates). But if you look at this post: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6859#more-6859 you see that adjusted +/- has them winning every game by a wide margin (more realistic in my view).
It can get even more basic than that though. If you look at last year’s Heat team, who won 47 games, and add the wins Berri’s stat says Bosh and LBJ accounted for on their teams — 12 and 24 respectively, you get 47 + 36 = 83 wins. Now, the Heat roster will be almost totally different than last year, but it wasn’t a good roster last year. If you do the same thing but use Win Shares, you get 9.6 (CB4) + 18.5 (LBJ) + 47 = 75.1 wins. The 1996-97 Bulls, who won 72 games, won by an average of 12.3 ppg. In my view the New Heat Order is going to blow those marks away.
yeah, i can’t disagree. more will be known once they fill out the roster, but – as you mention – the point of them playing together is create open looks. both wade & lebron require near-constant doubling, and bosh has shown that very few low-post defenders can cover him one-on-one…and those occurrences often end up with bosh on the line.
mike miller is, last i checked, a done deal (5yrs, $30M), so he’s gonna spread the floor. they still have chalmers as a back-up PG, but given the talent around him, he’d actually be a good starter – a guy who isn’t gonna look for his shot, will give up the ball to wade/bron on 90% of his touches, who plays good (above-average) D & who can knock down open jumpers. the idea that they won’t be able to fill out the roster with competent players is somewhat foolhardy – they really don’t need ‘competent’ players, they just need ‘alive’ players. the superfriendz will be playing together for, what?, 80% of the game? and it’s likely that the only time they’ll ALL be off the floor at the same time is when it’s a rout (which will be often, giving them sufficient rest).
i kind of doubt they’ll get to the finals this year, but they have at least 4 yrs, and will require another season/offseason to acquire sufficient bench depth to really compete, but they’re gonna tear through the regular season like chili goes through my lower intestine.
Ben Wallace would be the perfect center for the New Heat Order. He’d take all of the defensive pressure off Bosh and stay out of the SuperFriends’ way.
Nice analysis, but you are using the Win Shares from last season. In terms of offensive Win Share, CB4 won’t get career total again, and you can take it to the bank wade and lebron will have their number decreased. There are only so many offensive possessions.
A rough estimate,
85 fg attempts (league average is around 80, lakers had 83.6).
wade takes 20 fg
bosh 15 fg
lebrons 20 fg
2 other starts 20 fg
That leaves 10 fg for the bench. (if they shoot .600, they get around 15 pts, the last championship team with at 15 pts bench was??????) So even if they do sign other veterans, they can only float offensively.
You may argue that because they are going to get better chances because and therefore become more efficient, so their win share may remain high. But their eFG% is pretty high already (bosh @ .522, wade @ a whopping .650, and lebron @ .604) How much better can they get?
You may also argue that bosh played for a horrid defensive team, which killed his Win Shares. My rebuttal would be that, bosh can’t take range shots anymore, all the plays he will get will be iso post up, i guess this is also open for debate.
With out any proof, just my sentiment, i think wade and lebron will take turn dominating the opposition offensively. But to say they will win 72 games, will be underestimating the rest of the league.
Shots alone do not equal offensive win shares. Wade and LBJ are two of the best creators in the league, and they’d be creating for each other and Bosh, not to mention Mike Miller and several others. Their usage rates will not be as high, but that’s not a bad thing (the SuperFriends’ usage rates, on their old teams, adds up to 97.1 just from last year. They are not going to take 97% of the team’s shots).
I think that they’ll score a lot of easy points off their natural creative abilities. In other words, their team will score a lot of points in a very efficient manner, missing fewer of them, taking more high-percentage shots like dunks, layups and wide open jumpers in their comfort zone.
Underestimating the rest of the league? There have been 7 expansion teams since 1989, and that means about 100 more scrubs in the league. Many teams function as little more than AAA filler for the great teams. BTW, it’s nice to see Bosh promoted to the majors after 7 years in AAA.
that is correct. There is a lot more that factors into win shares like team’s pace, league’s pace, league’s possession per game, player possession (fg, ft, assists, …), and defensive numbers. More the reason why we shouldn’t use it to predict team wins :).
I only used fga count as a rough rough argument that their shots will go down significantly so their possession numbers will go significantly down as well. So i guess the debate comes down to possessions vs. offensive rating. My point of view is that their offensive rating will increase, but not enough for the big three to put up the same sort of numbers as last year.
Using last year’s usage% to predict usage% next year doesn’t make any sense to me. usage% is highly team dependent. It is like cutting pieces of different sized pies and then comparing the sum of these pieces to a pie of a different size to draw conclusions. HUH? It doesn’t make sense to me, way over my head. That’s why i looked at fgas.
I agree that more than half the league are fillers. I wish i could disagree. I am not saying the nba is scheming league polarization; i just think they are choosing not to do anything about it. It is just better business to have marketable teams that can be sold to audiences nationally and globally. BUT. Having said that, I think the magics, lakers, celtics are (so far) better than the heats while mavs, spurs, and regular season hawks can put up a good fight. You can’t overlook teams in the nba. oh just remember, the shitty nets beat the celtics at home last season. ’nuff said :).
oh i left out that you assume that wade and the towel boys in miami will earn 47 ‘win points’ with bosh and lebron, which won’t happen. The towel boys will spend more time passing lebron gatorade or giving stupid shocked expression each time he dunks than being productive on court.
My guess is the heat will win 65. If they sign, a good defensive centre and a veteran shooter, that may increase a couple of games to 67-68.
The best way to beat the Heat team is not through basketball stratey, rather outside basketball stretegy indeed. I would like to see how this Miami Heat team will match up against a Detroit “Bad Boys“ Pistons team with classic “clothesliner and enforcer“ Bill Laimbeer and the New York Knicks “Bad Boys“, ask MJ about those teams. At times when a team is too good like the current Miami Heat(and they most likely will be), you have to win through some cheating and dirty play like the Italian soccer team did in lifting the 2006 world cup. just my 2 cents.
Am afraid the rules and refereeing are different today. There was nothing wrong with the defense the Celtics played to get as far as they did this past season…hard nosed and on the ball. Good defensive teams will give them a hard time…and not so good ones will play them harder than otherwise. I think there may also probably be a built in bias against that team by the referees….especially on the road….no star privileges.
From what I read about the TPE , the following players cannot be aquired using the TPE as their salary exceed Bosh salary (+ $100.000).
Ming , Kirilenko , Arean , Reed.
true, but the salaries are close enough that adding another low-salary raptor would make the numbers work.
Yeah, but we can throw in more players to make it work.
No they can’t. A TPE can only be used by itself, not in combinations. Here’s Larry Coon explaining it:
“Trade exceptions can’t be added to anything. A team can acquire 125% of the salary they trade away (in a simultaneous trade). So if they have a $10 million player, he can be traded for up to $12.5 million in incoming salary. If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player or players making the amount of the exception or less (plus a $100,000 fudge factor).”
Source: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14923#ixzz0tIXbsHiz
You can give teams with this players, a TPE with the difference and a second round pick for salaries to match. The CBA likely says you can add TPEs together to make trades or package with a player to make trades. What you can not do with the TPE is package it with multiple players to make trades.
“you can add TPEs together to make trades or package with a player to make trades.”
Larry Coon explains “Trade exceptions can’t be added to other trade exceptions, either. Right now the Lakers have two trade exceptions – one for $2.5 million, and the other for $1.9 million. They can’t combine them to acquire a player making $4.4 million.”
A TPE cannot be used in combination with other contracts to bring in a player of greater monetary value than the TPE. So Arenas, Ming Yao and Kirilenko won’t work, because the contracts are larger than the TPE.
Can we use the TPE to buy picks from other teams? Like if one of the playoff teams has their pick on sale, can we use some of this to just straight up buy it?
If I were BC I’d be looking at how the summer goes and watching to see who else makes moves and then at the end pick a team that looks awful and take some of their salary and their pick. BC should be using this TPE to bring back young talent, and since most of those young players are cheap, it’s easy to package them with old expensive players (Collison + Okafor or Al Jefferson + Rubio would be awesome, if unlikey).
From what I understand the TPE cannot be used to acquire free agents or buy picks . It can only be used to acquire players under contract .
Unused TPE money is lost after 1 year .
Just FYI – Bosh TPE is ~14.5 million. Not 16.
Realistically are the Raptors going to use $9 million or more of their TPE to acquire a center and move Bargnani to PF and Johnson to the bench?
Then what happens to Davis?
I think it is totally unrealistic to image that BC is going to spend almost $7 million a year on Johnson to limit him to 15 mpg.
So at least until we see how Johnson does as a starter and how Davis and Alabi perform come Nov it is not very likely that the Raptors will be spending $9 million or maybe any of their TPE on a big man.
Arse’s article does a nice job of listing a bunch of players but makes no attempt to see if acquiring any of this is realistic despite having the TPE.
Also the article does not mention using the TPE for acquiring draft picks which I personally think BC will use at least a portion of the TPE for
Solution:
Davis and Johnson split minutes at the 4. Between Davis playing his first NBA season ever and Johnson yet to prove the ability to average more than ~23 minutes over an entire season, there might still be some minutes remaining at the 4. Bargnani and good defensive center can split minutes at the 5. If it’s someone like Oden, that again won’t be a problem given his foul trouble, and hey, we can also consider trading Bargnani for some other young talent (cough, cough, Rubio) if we end up getting someone like Biedrins.
buddhafan, fu dude all successful teams have a true center, if we get one, bargnani can come off the bench for all I care; johnson and davis can compete for starting power forward; and Alabi who probably wont be very good can be our third string centre; unless he shows some talent that is. But realistically yea, colangelo is for sure certain gonna make yet another stupid move and get a guard
can we acquire 2 players as long as they fit under the TPE?
can we use the TeeePeee and add a player + his contract to add players who exceed it? ex calderon $8M and $15M tpe *or whatever it is* to bring back $23M in salar?
The Raps can bring in any combination of players as long as they add up to less than the TPE, so two $7 million players for instance or one $14.9 million player (Chris Paul’s number this year).
The answer to the second question is no, that is prohibited.
Nene or Monta Ellis please.
Or a magical way to get both while dumping one of our other pgs (with the enticement of Ed Davis?).
I think I remember reading somewhere that the Raptors want to use Bosh in any trade to get back a wing player. He obviously didn’t get back any players in the trade with the Heat but with the trade exemption I thik he’ll be targeting wing players. Personally I hope he doesn’t try to swing for another home run. I’d like solid semi-rebuild move like trading for Al Jefferson from Minnesota and a 1st rounder (with no lottery protection) or something like that. I don’t think Minnesota will be that much improved next year so it would be a pretty high lottery pick which would possibly get the Raptors their PG of the future. I don’t see Mineesota giving up Rubio.
Sign me up for Okafor and Collison, I don’t care if okafor ever even plays, but if we have a shot at it we need to pick up a potential star at the 1.
1) Andre Iguodala
2) Nene
3) Monta Ellis
4) Chris Kaman
I don’t think Nuggets will be dealing Nene if they’re serious about staying contenders but the others make sense… some more than others.
Kevin H, I think that you’re right about Nene …
In order to get two of the remaining three, I’d allow
1) Bargnani to go to PSS for Andre Iguodala
2) Turkoglu or Calderon to go to GSW for Monta Ellis
3) Bargnani to go to LAC for Chris Kaman
I really want to end up with Kaman & one of Iguodala (preference) or Ellis. The TPE would be used only if necessary to complete the deal …
please no Monta Ellis
The numbers show he is the equivalent of a ‘Old’ Allen Iverson. keeps the ball in his hand, doesn’t play (or try on) D, is only interested in his own numbers.
I know he is quick as hell and can put up some nice numbers, but he is useless without the ball in his hands, and the ball won’t come back out once it is. (He is the prototypical undersized SG that can’t play point… and his range is limited on top of that)
By the way, we’d still have Turkoglu, Calderon, Belinelli, Evans & Banks to turn into 1 STARTING PG, allowing us to put Jack at sub-PG. Paul? Hmm, maybe this is where the TPE would best be spent?
That would leave us to start the season with:
BIGS: Kaman, Johnson, Davis & Alabi
MEDIUMS: Iguodala, DeRozan, Weems, & Kleiza
SMALLS: Paul & Jack
(Surely, we can pickup a bench PG somewhere along the way)
Just to be more clear …
1) Trade 14.5 million TPE to NOH for PG Chris Paul
2) Trade (either Hedo Tutkoglu or Jose Calderon) plus Marco Belinelli to PSS for SF/SG Andre Iguodala
3) Trade Andrea Bargnani and Marcus Banks to LAC for C Chris Kaman
you’re dreaming, buddy
Monta Ellis *would* help us get a better draft pick though!
His -9 pt differential per 80 possessions last season was pretty awe-striking. For someone who is supposed to be such an offensive weapon, he sure did hurt Golden State’s offense.
Ya, but he’s got mad skillz and he can score like a bitch!!!!!
I like the thought of getting Parker. I wouldn’t mind Odom for the 3, but I don’t know that he’s enough of a leader to pair him up with a team made up of youngsters and veteran malcontents.
The Raps are deep up front, they could take a chance on Oden.
If he pans out, awesome. If he doesn’t, his rookie contract comes off the books soon.
Though if he can get back in shape and recover from last year’s slump, Caron Butler should be the first choice here.
I think trading one of those 1st rounders + TPE + expiring contracts maybe + Demar can get us Iggy. Thoughts?
Cannot combine the TPE with other players for a player.
I’m at a loss here.
At PF, we would have Davis, Amir Johnson, and possibly Kleiza. So…what we gonna do about them? Let alone bring in another PF?
1st Pick: Darren Collison
2nd Pick: David West
3rd Pick: Luol Deng
I tried to pick guys I think would realistically play in Toronto, but I have my doubts Toronto could get West to play here, and New Orleans would be very stupid to trade away a guy like Collison cuz they’ll never keep Paul there.
I don’t see any problem in hanging on to the TPE even until the trade deadline to see how the team plays out. By that time certain teams would have decided that it wasn’t gonna work and would gladly trade away for some extra cap space.
However, if a player such as Paul were to be available, then no question we should jump at it first chance we get.
In any case we still have a lot of players besides the TPE that we can (and IMO have to) move around to make us better. Calderon/Bargnani/Turkoglu/Banks/Evans come to mind, and there could be some potential deals for them.
What I’m most excited about is the picks we have for the next few years. Since it’s doubtful we even make the playoffs the next two or so years I’m hoping we get lucky and win the lottery.
Oh, and I’m rooting for any team playing against the Heat this season.
Update: “Both the Raptors and the Cavs will receive trade exceptions valued at $14.5 million, sources told ESPN.com.”
Too small for CP3. Drat.
CP3? Not in this lifetime.
IMO we should considering using our assets towards the 2011 draft in order to ensure we aquire Kyrie Irving (Freshman PG for Duke). Check him out.
I’d add Okur to my list above, but with Boozer’s departure the Jazz will never let him go. Kirilenko is too injury prone, and apparently he’s a bit of a head case too.
Personally, I’ve always thought Bosh wasn’t a centerpiece superstar and his departure would actually be a blessing to the franchise despite what others think.
If bringing in more people, corporate sponsors and interest to the franchise while at the same time producing a decent product on the court are what the Raptors are looking for, then Nash is the best available option. Unfortunately, with his age, this would only last a year or two at best however one could hope that Nash could lure in another good, younger player during here that would help ease the transition for when he’s gone.
Why bother with the Eastern Conference since we now the MiSHeat will go 82-0 … and if you think they won’t yer just deluding and in total denial … it’s a DEAD league except for the Championship Finals … MiSHeat versus the Lakers or whoever … AND THE WINNER IS …..
MiSHeat will only lose if they get bored of winning … 80-2 maybe ??!!!
Just imagine … MiSHeat have won 70 games and are assured of home court advantage for the entire playoffs …. they will just bench the troika turds and let their bench play the last 12 games of the regular schedule.
Ya think …???!!!!
geez, FAQ, make up your mind. first, it’s 82-0. 10 minutes later, maybe they’ll stumble & lose twice (80-2.)
now it’s a 70-win team.
here’s how you make a bold prediction: the heat will win between 10 & 82 games next year. BOOK IT!
You are soooo pathetic … you are clinging to yer delusions and fighting to save yer failing feeeeeelings ….LOL
The Mi-SHeat are capable of going 82-0 …. but if they get bored of winning they might tank a couple of games for 80-2 … or coach Riley-Spoelstra might shut down the Mighty Troika once they win perhaps 70 games and it’s obvious that nobody in the East or West can deny them home game advantage in the playoffs.
3-30?
You are really clinging to pathetic delusion.. it’s game over.. believe it..!!!
I think he wants attention. Rough childhood I presume
Arsenalist:
“So basically, unless we actually use that trade exception, we lost Bosh for a first-round pick.”
I have to disagree with your assessment here. Had we S&Ted Bosh to the Lakers straight up for Bynum, we would be saying we lost Bosh for Bynum. Had we S&Ted Bosh to Chicago for Deng, Gibson and Johnson, we would be saying we lost Bosh for Deng, Gibson and Johnson. In neither of those cases would we be saying we essentially traded Bosh and our protected first round pick for [...], so why should this be any different.
Just because one of the 1st rounders we got from Miami used to be ours doesn’t mean we don’t benefit from it. The moment we traded it to Miami, it was no longer ours, and no matter how much I hated that trade it doesn’t change that fact. Because it was lottery protected, we essentially received a non-lottery pick in one of 2011 through 2014 that we would otherwise not have now, or even a 2015 lottery pick if we fail to make the playoffs the next 5 seasons.
The moment you factor our loss of that pick to the discussion, it would be inaccurate not to add in the other elements and results of that prior trade as well (i.e. Bosh, O’Neal, Moon, Ukic, 2010 Toronto 2nd round pick, rights to Delfino, and cash considerations to GSW for Turkoglu, Jack, Johnson, Weems, Belinelli, Wright, Banks, 2011 Miami 1st round pick, and cash considerations from Miami).
I don’t get it, but maybe that’s because it’s 1AM.
Getting Bynum, Deng, Gibson actually means something. I don’t think fans would be upset if any of those players came back in a Bosh trade.
And I also don’t see the connection between the JO/Marion trade and the Weems/Johnson/Ukic/Delfino trade.
My point is that since Colangelo has made a pretty big deal about this TPE, it would be a shame if he doesn’t use it.
Probably because it’s 1 AM. =)
I just meant for fairness sake, it would be more accurate to say that if we don’t do anything with the TPE, then we basically let Bosh go for TWO first round draft picks and not just one. Two first round draft picks may not be better than Bynum or Deng/Gibson/Johnson, but at least it’s the proper comparison. You (along with a lot of other people) seem to discount the 2nd first rounder simply because it used to be ours, but had we S&Ted with any other team, that draft pick (mediocre as it may be unless we are a lottery team the next five seasons) would still belong to the Heat. I agree with the rest of your point though that the TPE means nothing if we never use it (or use it properly).
You may be right about the missing connection between the JO/Marion trade and the Weems/Johnson/etc trade. I probably went one step too far in breaking the moves down to their essential equivalents, since if we didn’t trade JO for Marion, it wouldn’t have necessarily stopped us from S&Ting Delfino. Then again, with JO still around, we may not have bothered trading for another big (Johnson).
You are correct about the logic re the draft picks. We traded it…it wasnt ours anymore…and wouldnt have been if we had done a s&t with another team.
Kind of reminds me of the fallaciousness (or semi such) that “Riley fleeced BC in the JO for Marion deal” because BC gave up that very same pick while either forgetting or not taking into account that the Raptors got a year less of JO’s considerable salary. That pick I figure cost the Heat about 12-14 mill. when one factors Banks salary coming back, 3 mill in cash and salary diffs. of the principals.
That’s my very point.
I think you’re being generous/not generous enough (not sure which way is the one I’m looking for here =P) with how much that pick cost the Heat though. Toronto sent ~$22.06 mil in 2008-2009 salary to Miami, and ~$23.0 mil in 2009-2010, for a total of ~$45.06 mil. Miami sent back ~$21.35 mil in 2008-2009, ~$4.45 mil in 2009-2010 and ~$4.75 mil in 2010-2011, for a total of ~$30.6 mil. That’s a difference of ~$14.46 mil already, without including the $3 mil cash they sent us. Or a different (better?) way of wording it, they paid us $3 mil and absorbed ~$19.2 mil worth in salary from us over two years in return for a lottery protected 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, and us taking Bank’s 2010-2011 cap hit. As you suggested/asked, are those two picks worth $17.46 mil?
Then there’s the question of what the transfer of Banks’ 2010-2011 cap hit meant to both teams.
- For us, it means very little, simply because with or without Banks, the TPE we received from the Bosh deal would keep us above the cap. Without Banks, we would have to not only renounce the TPE but lose access to the MLE just so we could spend a mil or so more than we could with the MLE.
- For Miami, if you consider the contracts the Big 3 signed for, even if they could not unload Banks’ expiring contract onto OKC (Banks one year is cheaper than Cook’s two years) or some other team, at worst we helped them sign Mike Miller, while more realistically, we allowed them to extend a QO to Joel Anthony. That we single-handedly helped them get all three of the Big 3 is one of the biggest fallacies being maintained. Undo the Marion/JO trade and they could still all end up in Miami, and if not Miami then Chicago.
Eighth place Raptors versus the Mi-SHeat in playoffs.. you wanna watch that travesty ??!!!!
The Eastern Conference is totally fucked up for years now as far as fan support goes …. even NBA players on other teams will just give up against Mi-SHeat … why bother busting yer ass for nothing because yer gonna lose anyway …. soooo obvious.
honk. honk. honk.
Comment deleted by a coward.
80-2?! Shows how much you know about basketball … 1) the all-time record for consecutive victories is 33. 2) It takes 8 to 11 players to get a victory. The Heat have 3 starters & 1 sub. That leaves 4 to 7 more to get … with the money that’s left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 3 will build up a lead, and the rest will squander it more often than you think …
Oh, Boki…How much he knows, ha?
Remember this gem?
Boko says:
Aug 24, 2009 at 8:28 am
“If I HAD to bet the home, I’d bet that the Raptors will finish in 12th in the NBA, and in 6th in the East. However, I also know that the balance of power is trending towards the East, and soon the TrailBlazers will be the lone ‘team of the future’ out west, while the Magic, Bulls & Raptors duke it out year after year in the East.”
Dang man.. hope you didn’t bet the crib.
Jefferson – swing those two picks to the wolves with Jose for Sessions – Gives the Wolves a real starting point guard and might help gearing up for Rubio to come over
Bargnani – Johnson
Jefferson – Reggie
Hedo – Klieza
DeRozan – Weems – Belli
Jack – Sessions
Gives us the same team we had before, except this PF can actually play the post, and the pick and roll with Hedo the way he used to with Howard
Sessions was a flash in the pan few games guy.
They were a great 6 (or so) games he had at the end of the season for Milwakee (2 years back now?), but he has done nothing since
I also wouldn’t want to give up any picks (or even Jose for that matter) for Jefferson. If he comes for free (ie. the TPE) it may be worth a risk (although I think his injury is a problem)
I think Al Jefferson is a guy that we can realistically get. Replacing CB with a 17 and 10 guy isn’t all that bad.
I’d like to see Jefferson in a Raptors uniform for next year. Although he’s undersized for a center – listed at 6’10” and 265lbs, he’s the best solution to the Bargnani deficiencies. Minnesota reportedly are shopping Jefferson to free time for Milicic, Love, Beasley and some other Euro stud… could be interesting.
source:
http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/#TyThomas
Lot’s of Rumours of Al Jefferson coming 2 Toronto…but the big prize is Ricky Rubio,they want him in the deal if they are 2 take jefferson off Minnesota…
Ricky Rubio
Al Jefferson
for
Jose Calderon
Marco Bellenelli
Marcus Banks
Portion of TPE…
1st round pick
i’d do it!
This only works if the TPE can be separated into its own separate trade. It cannot be combined with any of Banks, Belinelli or Calderon to take on a bigger salary.
I am a little confused. As far as I knew, the point of the TPE is to combine it with players and or picks to balance salary requirements. If it is not matched with a player, or pick then who would accept it. That would be just give me your player, and we give you nothing?
I unconfused myself. I just realized what you meant. That trade would not work.
Yup =)
In case anyone else is confused, we can do Belinelli and part of the TPE for Okafor, Collison and Pondexter, because the trade can be divided into:
Belinelli for Collison and Pondexter
then
Part of TPE for Okafor
Also, some teams (cough, cough Philadelphia) would be more than willing to give away a player for just the TPE. Good thing Brand is larger than our TPE credit. ;)
A talented point guard,m without being too picky
arenas, ellis,terry
I wouldn’t say any of those guys are PGs. They just do at times because they get burned at sg.
With today’s trades, I think Andre Iguodala would be an excellent fit on the roster.