Make no mistake, Jay Triano did all he can to help us lose this game. He subbed out an on-fire Jarrett Jack with 1:15 left in the third and brought him back with 5:52 left in the game, by this time the Raptors’ five point lead had vanished and to make matters worse, we saw the dreaded “three guard” lineup of Turkoglu, Jack and Calderon where those three only produced 4 points in the final half of the fourth. That lineup became too jumper-happy and relied too heavily on Bosh, however, some Laker misses and good Raptor rebounding later, we had a chance to tie the game late but Hedo Turkoglu committed his fourth turnover on the night. It looked like the game was over, but an Odom FT miss left the door open for a deep Bosh three (Jose leaving him out to dry) which he nailed (second on the night). Then Kobe happened and the Raptors didn’t have any timeouts left.
It really is an utter shame to waste the effort, energy and enthusiasm we played with only because our coach can’t figure out what lineups to put out, here’s a thought: go with what’s working. He basically iced Jack who had scored 13 points in the third quarter but only managed two FTs once he returned. Just like Triano had done against Portland, he shutdown Jack when nobody else could. I’m not saying we would’ve won the game, I’m saying we would’ve been in a better position to win the game. Even Jack Armstrong couldn’t believe his Irish eyes when he saws Jack glued to the bench; in fact, the “boys in the truck” were like WTF as hey kept focusing on Jack sitting on the bench all confused wondering what the hell he had done wrong.
Let’s recap a bit of the game. The first was all about the Lakers trying to come out aggressive and intimidate the Raptors, Artest’s aggressive foul on Turkoglu set their defensive tone early as they were extending their defense to try and pressure us. We did a good job of responding through DeRozan drives/cuts and great outside shooting, 7 of our 9 threes came in the first half and it kept us in the game. We had no answer for the Lakers establishing Bynum with deep post position on the break, feeding it to him and him turning for scores or great offensive rebound opportunities for them. Chris Bosh still looked a little rusty as the drive-game was out of sync early and he had obvious trouble coping with the length of the Laker bigs. Bargnani struggled early with poor shot-selection and went 1-5 in the first quarter but the Raptors were only down 5. A decent start considering how we were getting hammered in the paint; another good sign was our defense was showing signs of life, forcing some turnovers and picking up points on the break – an area we won 16-10 on the night. DeRozan did a solid job on Kobe early while at the same time getting his on the other end.
Bargnani exploded in the second quarter with 13 points, his teammates did a good job of looking for him in transition and he delivered some nice finishes going to the rim. Weems and Calderon outplayed their bench counterparts as the Lakers struggled to score without one of Gasol or Kobe in there. We also saw how comfortable Calderon and Johnson (9pts, 7rebs in 22min) are becoming with each other, he fed him for two assists and a few touches last night. Kobe at this time was still deferring to his teammates, I’d say the Lakers offense was more big-man oriented than Kobe-driven at this juncture. We dropped in a 2-3 zone which was broken a couple times by the three, but overall was a solid option as the Lakers bench couldn’t execute the triangle as fluently. Jack Armstrong made a great point about how the triangle is a read-and-react type of offense and once you see a shallow zone which isn’t moving, it’s hard to figure out what option to take. We were up 58-50 at the half and it was all thanks to our bench which got the better of the Lakers’ 29-22 overall.
Antoine Wright, Hedo Turkoglu and DeMar DeRozan picked up three first-half fouls, this meant Belinelli saw some playing time in the first half, he did well going a +11 with a three and a few rebounds while playing decent defense. I couldn’t understand why he wasn’t higher up in the rotation today, wasn’t he the guy that won us the Laker game at home? Turkoglu was typically trash, he had 6/5/4 with those ugly four turnovers where he looked like he was just learning to dribble the ball. The only good thing I can say about him is that he drew the Laker defense a couple times and found Bargnani and Bosh for open jumpers. Other than that he continues to be an eyesore.
So after Bargnani scores 13 points in the second, how many do you think he had in the whole second half? 6. Yup, that’s it. Whose fault is it? I don’t know, he only took 5 shots in the second half so he wasn’t exactly looking for his offense. My take is that his early shot-selection in the second half was so poor that after he missed a couple bad shots, he shied away from taking any more. Call it losing confidence. Bosh finally started getting to the line in the third quarter had notched 8 points in the frame, but this quarter was all about the Lakers running their offense through Kobe Bryant and not their bigs. They came out with better defensive energy and we were about to crumble if it weren’t for Jack taking the initiative and willing the Raptors into the lead until he got subbed off. Jose didn’t play all that bad when he came in (other than getting burned by a Shannon Brown three), but the offense definitely lacked the zip which we saw in the third.
Jack had singlehandedly withered the Lakers third-quarter assault but Triano didn’t give him the chance to succeed by absolutely killing his rhythm with the long benching. I’m trying to understand what compelled Triano to not retain Sonny Weems in the fourth quarter lineup instead of Calderon, by all accounts Weems was having a great game (3-5FG 6pts) and wasn’t conceding on defense. I have no idea why he didn’t stick with the Jack-led lineup of the third quarter which had done so well in the face of great Lakers pressure. No idea.
I have to give credit to Amir Johnson for playing very hard tonight, he was on the offensive glass, contested the Laker drives and worked well with his PGs. He was part of some crucial scores in the fourth quarter that kept us within striking distance. We were able to counter Lakers’ frontcourt length through him, the same can’t be said about Reggie Evans who basically kills any positive he brings by not being able to kick-out the odd offensive rebound he gathers. His man-defense today was also quite shite; I’m not sure why he’s complaining to the refs because he fouls multiple times on the same possession so when the ref finally blows his whistle, he should be thanking him for not doing it sooner instead of moaning about it.
Down 102-104 with 0:52 seconds left, Calderon missed a makeable three pointer, the tip was missed by Bosh but Jack managed to get the offensive rebound. I’m thinking if Turkgoglu isn’t on the floor, Jack takes matters into his own hands and gets something going to the rim, instead he’s almost forced to pass it to Turkoglu who is advertised as being Mr. Fourth Quarter. He does so and Turkoglu makes a bush-league turnover, something you’d see a freshman PG in high-school make the first time he’s on the floor. Fisher picked off his pass too easily, one of the easiest steals he’ll ever get.
Bosh had a poor shooting night going 7-18 but was better as the game went along, perhaps it was his legs coming back. His three tied the game but 9 seconds is an eternity for Kobe who drilled a fairly tough baseline jumper over Antoine Wright.
Tonight we’re in Sacramento and you have to wonder how much is left in the tank after that solid effort which deserved better.
I thought I had a lot more to say but it’s 4:30AM and my head isn’t working. Probably because of this which was mandatory after this one.
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125 Raps
I have a feeling the bottle may be empty halfway through the Sacto game.
Also, lately, seems like everytime Arse writes a review, we lose. Coincidence? Probably, now that I think about it.
there are times triano reminds me of a football coach who kicks a field goal from the 3-yard line with 2 minutes left in the 4th when down 21-7. like, it’s not necessarily about winning the game, but rather about keeping it ‘close,’ making it respectable.
this was a game they were ‘supposed’ to lose. i wonder, in JT’s post-game evaluation, did he mention that this was the 1st of a B-2-B, and that he wanted to make sure his guys didn’t get burned out, hence the rest for jack? i’m thinking he thought it was more important to keep jack rested (because everyone knows that 3 or 4 minutes makes such a huuge difference) for tonight’s game v. Sacto, a game that they are actually ‘expected’ to win, and a game, if they were to lose, would be ‘worse’ than the loss to LA. i mean, no one’s going to care, in the end, that the raps could have beaten LA; but they will remember if they lose to Sacto. in a few days, no one will remember WHY/HOW they lost to LA, only that they were in it ’till the end, had a chance, and lost a game they were supposed to lose.
Fire the coach! He’s suck.
Fire the coach? No no no. That is too easy. Tie him up, pour honey on his feet and let the ants loose. Hahaha just kidding. I just dont know how his mind works. I guess he really doesnt want to get into the playoffs because it will expose his real coaching ability when it come to pressure plays.
I realize Wright had 5 fouls… but at some point, you gotta admit your team made a mistake with the FA signing and bench Turk [especially since he was struggling]. But no… Triano is too afraid of conflict with players, so instead keeps Hedo on. At least Wright knows his role, and doesn’t force shots, unless he is completely open.
Artest had Jack totally shut down to where he couldn’t even get off a pass or dribble toward the basket.
The Raptors played a very good game and Triano did a very good job. They just lost to a superior team. The Raptors were lucky it was the their first road game on the trip and the Lakers first home game after an 3 game road trip.
A great game to watch though I would have loved to see Reggie and Artest go at and I mean really go at it like gladiators. Too bad it wasn’t to be but otherwise a very worthwhile Hollywood production and a lot more entertaining than some of the movies up for Oscars two nights before. After all, as Sheed says “Its just entertainment” and the game was very entertaining.
Kobe now with 6 buzzer beaters, which I guess are better than eggbeaters, this year. The guy is amazing.
Disagree completely. This is typical rationalization of the results. Raps could’ve and should’ve won the game if a) Jay had made better decisions and b) Hedon’t, our main summer signing, pulled his weight and played like we expect him.
The Raps would have won this game if they had a perfect game. They didnt, and we shouldnt expect them to. Be happy it wasnt a blowout like it should have been…
Edgar… thats the spirit…. **** that, I expect a win every game.
Your comment is the kind of thinking that I hope the team doesn’t share. Otherwise we’re mired in mediocrity. They need to strive to be the best and that starts with the right mental attitude, including the thought “we’re in LA and we’re going to sweep the series for the first time ever. Those who think we’re not going into the playoffs are wrong!!”
WE were not supposed to have lost that game. Had Triano made a logical decision on playing Jack, that was a won game.
I would hazard a guess that had the Lakers lost, their fans could have pointed to a half a dozen reasons why they should’ve and could’ve won the game.
Teams lose games. The Raps nearly swept the NBA champions. It was good.
amen.
Blind Man sees better than the Arsenalist.
I hate this attitude. This was first the game back from a roadtrip for them after they lost three in a row. Lakers were ripe for the pickin and we didn’t capitalize. Why so satisfied to nearly win? So you think if we “nearly” beat the Lakers, we will beat Kings tonight? It doesnt work that way. U have to take your chances and we didnt.
what game where you watching?
yes triano did a good job…. of mking sure we have everyopportunity to lose the game. the guy has cost us what…at least 6-8 games this year? Triano must be a big Dumbleavy fan..becasue he coaches like him.
nuh-uh…to emulate dunleavy, he would’ve had to insert an ice-cold marco into the game to take the shot (instead of bosh). although the ‘not leaving yourself an end-of-game TO to orchestrate a play or advance the ball’ move was eerily reminiscent of some of mike’s finest work.
He would’ve had a timeout, had your boy Jack not burned one with 45 seconds left as he was trapped near half-court. But again, that’s Triano’s fault.
(Not blaming Jack, shit happens)
My one hope for this off-season is to hire an elite or at least a none-Triano coach. I mean I really think JT knows his Xs and Os, but come on…. This guy is a F***ING IDIOT!!!!! WTF is wrong with this guy man. Like sometimes I try to rationalize his moves but I just don’t understand how an NBA coach could coach a team like this…
It wasn’t only the JJ situation. It was also the DD situation. I understand that he is having a good game, but in the third and I think fourth, he was absolutely getting burnt by Kobe, and what does Jay do? Does not change a thing, “when its broken, why fix it? When it is not broken, lets try to fix it…”, I swear this is Jay’s philosophy. Then the famous Calderon, JJ line-up… We need a way to stop kb, and that line-up did not really help the cause after the horrible game Calderon was having…
Bottom line is I really think JT is a good assistant coach but he is just not an NBA coach material…. I beg you BC, get us a decent coach..
Also, how come no one is talking about officiating? Bosh was getting fouled in every lay-up by Bynum and no calls… Bynum should have been out before the fourth quarter…. and then on other side, Johnson is trying establish position, gets push by Odom and gets called for a foul… It is really sad that officials are that influenced when bit**ed upon…
Blame the refs on this game! Their obviously biased to Kobe.
Do you have a wishlist of coaches who would realistically want to coach here?
Blame Triano too. He too is baised to the Lakers. He sold the game.
BC would never get rid of Triano.
BC wants to keep the bosses happy. If you thnk Triano got the job cause he was BC’s ‘guy’ we haven’t been paying attention.
Triano has survived 3 diffrent Raptor head coaches as an assistant. He’s been here long before BC.
What assistant coach do you know keeps his job through three different coaching tenures? Is he that vital to any future success they may have?
Tannenbaum has been grooming Jay for this for years now and BC delievered the promise under his watch, thats all. Jay being the head coach is Mr. Tannenbaums decision. Iavaroni being the coach in waiting is BC’s decision.
Pick your poison.
What might be your connective reasoning between Tannenbaum & JT?
There is actually a more publicized one between Bosh & JT (he spent a lot of time with CB in his formative years)…and he approved of his appt. This is not to say that head coaches should be picked because a player wants it so.
The connective reasoning is that Triano has been an assistant coach with the raptors under Sam Mitchell, Kevin O’Neil and Lenny Wilkens. There has been no other consistent but him.
If I’m the new head coach of the Raps why am I retaining Triano? He was here before I got here but I don’t know him and don’t know if he supports my philosophies. In the history of basketball has there been a coach to survive three seperate coaching regimes?
This doesn’t happen by accident. A young Bosh (who hadn’t yet been an all-star) couldn’t dictate to KO if Triano should be on the coaching staff. The GM’s have changed since then as well. This is Tannenbaum’s team and decision….. believe it.
No one could keep their job through 3 seperate regimes and 3 GM’s (BC, Babcock, Grunwald) than eventually become the head coach if someone high up wasn’t looking after him. Was he that tremendous of an assistant coach that all of the incoming coaches needed them on their staffs? Please.
I can’t blame Colangelo for this one (I can blame him for Turk though) cause I think the decision came from a source higher than him.
I’m not sure why Triano sitting Jack is such a big deal…. the guy needed a rest. He was getting fatigued and was drenched in sweat. He is a trooper but not indistructable.
I do however wish Triano would have gotten himself a T. at some point during the game (especially late). The touchy fouls that were called throught the first 3 quarters were one thing…. those phantom calls late were complete garbage and had a huge influence on the game.
It’s not so much he took him out, it’s that he missed half the fourth quarter. 1:15 of playing time plus stoppages plus the third quarter break is enough to catch your breath.
it’s not the fact he (jack) needed a blow, it’s the length of time he sat. he probably needed about ten minutes (real time). he came out with, what, less than 2 minutes left in the 3rd. there’s a few minutes between the 3rd & 4th. and he came back in with just under 6 minutes to play in the 4th, right? why not bring him back a bit earlier, stretch him out, say around the 8/9 minute mark? like i said above, it’s as though JT coached to keep it a respectable game, and if they won, it would be a bonus.
I do agree that Jack probably sat longer than needed… but its not like the Raps were out of the game because of it. They stayed with the Lakers the entire time.
The Refs were much more influential in that game than the minutes Jack sat.
maybe, but…you can’t control the refs or how they call a game. you can control your lineup.
He should have come back earlier but thats not my biggest issue. My issue is that with the 2 pg line-up Calderon is the primary ballhandler and Jack was killing all of the Lakers pg’s off the dribble in the 3rd and creating looks for his teammates.
Jose did none of that in the 4th so why is Jack playing the 2 in the guard line-up? I just don’t like the fact that he took him out of a position that he was succeeding in.
Fatigued. He was showing no sighs of fatigue.
Drenched in sweat. You got to be kidding.
That’s a great signal. He’s sweating take him out
of the game.
Agreed. Jack had lots left in the tank. He only played 30 minutes. Kobe is always dripping in sweat. Does Phil take him out?
Honestly, I just don’t get it… It has come to a point that I am not even surprised anymore… I am like “Here is JT again doing his coaching…” BS!
How many end-to-end drives through the whole lakers lineup did Jack do in the first half of the 3rd quarter? The pull was logical even if the wait to put him back in was questionable. But to declare that triano has an IQ of a gym teacher is daft. The man is extremely good at what he does and for nba fans to blast him like this just shows how limited our perception really is.
Agreee, sweating does not = tired. Tired = lazy plays and not getting back on defense and not giving in effort.
Arsenalist is right, i was thinking the same thing along with everyone else. Triano took out Jack who was on fire and carving up the Lakers then instead of putting him back in to start the 4th, went with Jose and when JJ came back in , it was as the 2 and could only watch as Hedo took the ‘Ball’ and proceeded to give it to the Lakers on 2 important possessions. No moral victory on this one, we could have won if not for Jay and his weak coaching, just because Hedo claims he needs the ball to be effective, do we need to give it to him everytime? We cant have Hedo and Bargs on the court together late in games, its too much of a defensive liablility in close games.
Good point about the D…except that the Raps gave up 9 points in the final 5:30, including Kobe’s J and 3 on intentional fouls. So 4 real, live game points in 5:28. Plus they rebounded the misses. Timing, my friend.
I think Bargs has the best interior defense on this team… Why do always have to throw him under the bus… Feel sorry for the kid, no one likes him including the officials….
I got this funny feeling the Bargs actually can defend the Lakers front court real well. Before you all think I am crazy, just feel out the tone of the Lakers front-court. Gasol, Odom, and sometimes Bynum just don’t show that “edge” in their game that allows them to carve out the foul calls and space for their post ups, unlike the C**tics. Bargs vs. Gasol are both skilled Euros that are as big and if they were the same age, they are as athletic and “skilled” as each other. Odom vs. Bargs is not such a mismatch due to the fact that Odum is a candy-eating, Kardashian impregnating lolipop. Bargs vs. Bynum, Bymun is still not that bright to realize that he is big and talented enough to grab rebounds and score at will around 4-8ft of the basket.
From the opening 3 he missed on the first shot of the game, to the missed layup and turnover the next two possesions to the final turnover I wanted to jump the TV and kill Turk. What a fking loser.
Not only did Triano cool of Jack and go with the dreaded “three guard” lineup, when Jack comes in he is put in the far corner and Calderon runs the team. Why, Jack should run it as he can drive and create, Calderon can only pass to Bosh or Amir if he is in the game and shoot jumpers
I switched the station and throwed out my remote last night because of stupid coaching.
I thought watching the game was bad luck, so I played Mass Effect 2 instead and peeked at the scores. Good think I never really watched the entire forth quarter, I would of woke up my landlords.
Really, is Jay Triano an effective coach? Come on now Jay, stop day dreaming and pick up the wet towels.
I’m confused. Is Triano supposed to play Jack 24 minutes in the 4th, on the first night of a back-to-back, the first of a West coast trip, the first of 4 games in 6 days? What is wrong with you people? He was out for 7 minutes in the 2nd half, and Jose played well all night.
Love the poll too: always looking for someone to blame. All the negative focus, nevermind the fact that every player on the Raps played a good game and they hung with the defending champs, on the road, until the last play.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
well, do you play to win, or do you play to not lose? who gives a flying fuck if it’s the first game of a B-2-B, or the last game of 25 in a row? rest periods for pro athletes don’t need to be that long, and it’s not as though playing 3 or 4 minutes more last night would have THAT much of a negative impact in the NEXT game.
you play to win the game. not tomorrow’s game, or yesterday’s game – this game. i figured jay would have figured out that planning for the NEXT game before the current one is over was a recipe for a loss.
look, you can be perfectly happy with a ‘good’ loss, but this ain’t exactly the ’86 celts here. any chance to beat ANY team, regardless of who it’s against, has to be taken. tomorrow’s game don’t mean shit. there are no such things as moral wins, only actual wins, and actual losses.
You play to win, which is done in the playoffs. To do well there, you need to win as many games in the regular season as possible. That requires you to plan for not only the game at hand but the short-term future as well. You can’t wear the players down and expect them to be fresh when they’re needed most. Ignoring the need to consider upcoming games is a recipe for disaster, and limiting Bosh’s minutes this year is a big part of what’s kept him at an elite level all season.
This isn’t some game 7 where a loss would’ve doomed the team. Of course you play to win the game, but the Lakers game is no more important than tonight’s, or Friday’s, or Saturday’s.
Just because moral wins don’t count in the standings doesn’t mean they don’t exist. There are positives to be taken from this game.
i’m sure they’ll think back fondly of this ‘moral win’ when they’re the 7th or 8th seed (if they’re lucky enough to get in) and facing off against CLE or ORL. i sure hope that the 29 mpg jack’s been forced into playing this year don’t wear him out for the 4-game beatdown they’re in store for.
like i said above, this ain’t the ’86 celtics. and yes, you play to win in the playoffs, but you still have to get to the playoffs. what fucking difference does it make if they’re rested and finish in the 7 or 8 spot, they’re getting ANNIHILATED anyway. so yeah, i see your point. why try now, when it a) probably won’t matter now & b) probably won’t matter later.
It’s not about looking back nostalgically at the ‘moral win’, it’s about proving to themselves that they can beat the best, on the road, if they give 48 minutes of effort. They haven’t been doing that since the all-star break. HOPEFULLY now they do.
Jack left the game with the Raps up 5. He returned 7 game minutes with the game tied. Are we really concerned with that type of swing? Let’s be serious. Jose played a good game and helped the team get to the tie with 9 seconds left. Jack’s successes in the 3rd were from driving, with 1 3FG mixed in. Are you trying to say that he lost his rhythm and could no longer drive when he came back in? Nonsense. They played equitable minutes and should both be ready for tonight’s game. That couldn’t be said if Jack played 40 mins.
Now, if the reason he couldn’t drive is because he was playing 2-guard with Jose as point, that’s one thing. But it’s separate from the substitutions.
all i’m saying is that he (JT) shouldn’t have waited as long to get jack back in. playing an extra 3 minutes last night (totally 33 minutes) wouldn’t have been a big deal. would it have made a difference, in the end? who knows? but i’d rather die going with the guy who’d built a lead than leave him on the bench to get cold. i’d also rather have him back in the same role he had in the 3rd, as opposed to playing 3rd fiddle behind turk & jose. why go away from something that was working, to something that has proven, time & again, to be ineffective?
how does last night, ‘prov(e) to themselves that they can beat the best, on the road, if they give 48 minutes of effort.’ all last night proved was that they can play hard (and, generally, well), and still lose to a team that, by it’s own standards, played poorly?
I’m not sure how the Lakers played poorly. Shot well, didn’t turn it over, got to the line, played tough D.
A couple bounces go the other way and the Raps may win that game. If they come away thinking “Man, we played well and still lost…” then they are much bigger losers than anyone anticipated and we should all abandon them immediately.
I’m not talking roles. I agree, put him back at the 1. Leaving him on the bench for that long didn’t lose the team the game.
How is playing Jack 40 minutes on a night when he’s hot and Caldron 8 minutes
going to wear out players. That means the next night Caldron will be fresh and
ready to play and Jack may or may not be tired.
Playing the hot hand does work in sports. Overplaying Jack isn’t a problem.
He is averaging 28.7 minutes. Bosh is averaging 36.2 minutes.
Mentally a win against the Lakers is more important than a win against the Kings.
Raptors can compete and beat the top teams and that mind set is required to do
well in the playoffs.
Dude, the Raps are not locked in at the 5 seed anymore…they are fighting to stay in the playoffs with only 20 games remaining.
They need to be going all out crazyhorse on every game.
Neigh!
Geez Macy…c’mon, one of the worst mistakes a team can make is to look past the game at hand, each game should be taken as the most important of the season with a sense of urgency. You never look past the game u have that night…thats what scouts are for.
Does 5 extra minutes of play really make a difference for Jack to be that much tired for tomorrow??!!! My God this is very Smitch-esque….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I
Exactly as Yertu said…in sports when someones got the hot hand and obviously making it hard on the opponent to guard u keep going to him until ur opponents stops him, and on this night JJ had it going. Why do u think Lebron, Wade, etc..play almost 40 mins a night? cuz they always have it going most of the times. Jack had his rhythm going in the 3rd and was keeping the Lakers off balance with his drives to the hoop and aggressiveness, then we let them off easy with Turks and Jose’s slow half court game.
ps. theres only 12 mins per quarter Macy O, so 24 mins in the 4th would be hard to do.
I Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree 100000000% with Arse. Staying up late to watch this game which we could’ve had is painful. The key to our losing is our 4th qtr lineup: with ‘Ball’ turning it over many times in this game, he shouldn’t be handling the ball at the last minutes of the game, and late insertion of Jack. W.T.F.
J.T., do not make aberrant sub patterns, this aint NBA 2K10! Run with the hot hand!
Why blame BULL, I mean BALL, it is his nature to play disaster. Havent you noticed since he became a Raptor, he started playing TERRIBLE. Maybe the Magic planted him here to disrupt the Raptor chemistry. Nasty…
F*CK TURKOGLU!
triano is helping bury turkoglu by playing him so much when he is obviously having a poor game. is there any reason why we couldn’t go with weems down the stretch rather than an out of shape struggling hedo? with the lineup of jack, calderon, hedo, bargs and bosh who was triano hoping to cover kobe? I like turk but enough with giving him 30 minutes a game. if he’s having a poor game play him less and let him hit the reset button.
so it’s triano’s fault for overplaying turk? wasn’t that what he (turk) was brought here for, to be mr. late-game-heroics? he’s taken a good chunk of the season off, he should be in fine shape. ;)
This isn’t the first part of the season. He has been given many opportunities to prove
himself. Sports is performance base. Triano for whatever reason doesn’t seem to follow
this basic truth. And maybe this is one of the reasons these players motivation moves
so much from one end of the scale to the other end.
How do you think Jack feels. He’s on a roll. Raptors are ahead by 5 pts and he gets pulled
for Caldron who is having an average game. Triano is bringing in Caldron as the closer.
You don’t think Jack feels the Raptors could’ve won if he was left on the floor. What about
Bosh? How does Jack stay motivated game after game with this kind of mismanagement.
well, that assumes the JT is in compete, 100% command of who plays what minutes. you think he wouldn’t be feeling pressure to be playing his big money guys, esp. in crunch-time? jack may have been hot, but he makes less $$ than jose; wouldn’t want to embarass your boss by not playing the guy making twice as much as the dude who’s actually playing well. of course, you can’t sit a prized FA signing either so….PLAY THEM TOGETHER! GENIUS! if turk was making $3M/yr instead of $10M, it’d be a helluva lot easier to plunk his lazy ass on the bench…but, he doesn’t, and it isn’t. if bargs struggles, can they justify sitting him down to give more minutes to amir, since they’ve invested so much $$ & so much of the future of the franchise in bargs, and amir is an expiring contract? ditto for DD & weems/wright.
Absolutely agree with you.
The coach is judged by the number of wins.
You seem to miss reality. Sports is performance
base. Any other reason to play a player besides
performance means risking defeat.
And it is a stupid thing to do in a very important, close game, like this one..
collangelo wants to win. he doesn’t give a rat’s ass if turk plays 30 or 20 minutes as long as he’s getting W’s. It looks a lot worse if your prized free agent is turning the ball over and clanking 3s in crunch time.
I guess the best thing to do is change the NBA rules. Add another quarter only for the Turk and let him do his thing… ALONE… were he wont affect the outcome of a game.
Somebody should reprimand the coach for poor coaching.
You knnow what, the refs favor luxury teams (LA, Celtics, etc.) because these teams pay extra to the organization. That is were the refs get their salaries. So, 1 and 1 together if you see what I mean. Let the Raptors be a luxury team and then maybe in the future, the refs will favor us. But not till then.
HAHA this is a prime example of someone not knowing about the topic that theyre posting on. The League does not make additional money from luxury teams…. the luxury tax is distributed evenly among non-luxury tax paying teams. Even if every team had a 35Mil payroll like the Nets, OKC etc the refs still get their paycheques. Sorry to be a dick but this is a retarded comment.
Well, if Triano doesn’t play Turk, he gets fired. And he knows that. He can’t bench the Turk. Ball and all.
We’re wrong. Especially after last nights performance.
If we dont get to the playoffs, he may also get fired. So, why sell the game early. Why play the Turk who as far as everybody is concerned is a total FLOP. A very EXPENSIVE FLOP, that is what he is. The Turk is sugar-coated with nothing inside. Man, he really did BC in. Now how do you get rid of a very expensive contract like the Turk.
At least it gives us somebody to hate. I used to be a Bargniani hater. My wife used to know him as “F*cking Barniani”, cause that’s what I used to call him every time he touched the ball and messed up, and that was a lot.
But he’s come a long way, and whatever all the haters have to say, he’s a 7 foot centre, averaging 17 points a game, top 5 center in the east, plays descent 1 on 1 defence even if he still needs to improve otherwise. So now all those haters can switch to Turk, cause he definately deserves it more than Bargs.
Macy O’Baston comments = Mediocre Mentality !!
please explain how.
it’s the ‘well, they played hard, and it was close, and they were supposed to lose anyway…i’m just happy it was a competitive game, and they can learn from it & get better’ mentality. fuck that. it’s the built-in excuse of weak franchises that don’t believe they’re actually good enough to consistently beat good teams. until they believe it, it’ll never happen.
so what should he say instead…. we lost to the world champs on the final shot of the game, after staying with them right from the tip, so the Raps better blow it up. No more minutes for anyone other than Jack, Bosh and Amir?
“they were supposed to lose anyway…i’m just happy it was a competitive game”
he actually said none of that… thats what you are inferring from what he said and it is, at best, quite the stretch. I ask, after last nights game what should the Raps do. Fire Jay? Blow up the team? Try out POB?
Everyone played well and provided, no one person (or combo of people) costs the Raps the game. They keep up that effort, intensity and play and the Raps win most of their games.
Apparently if you don’t bitch about every player and coach after losing a tight game (to the Lakers on the road no less) you are content with mediocrity. Please….
but don’t you see? even in your last line ‘…to the Lakers on the road no less…’ you’re making excuses. yeah, it was a close game. you know what that gets ‘em? F-all.
no, i’m not suggesting that they blow up the team, i’m merely suggesting that had they gone into the game thinking ‘win’ vs. ‘keep it close & who knows,’ then maybe they’d have actually won? i dunno, maybe i just take too little comfort in these games; perhaps it’s because we see what they can do when they put out the effort, even when a key cog was as useful as tits on a bull (thanks, mom! never thought i’d actually use that…).
‘Everyone played well and provided, no one person (or combo of people) costs the Raps the game.’
wrong. ‘everyone’ didn’t play well. just because it was a close game doesn’t mean everyone played well, that’s a bullshit cop-out. bargs had a strong (overall) game, as did jack. bosh was so-so (below avg., for him). the wings were meh. jose was below-average. and, as mentioned, turk shat the bed (disturbing just how routine that’s become for mr. clutch. i’m sure he’ll have a big game vs. sacto though).
i know i should be impressed that they played a tough team close, but why, exactly? they lost. that’s all that really matters.
Dude, you’re good at talking hoops. You’re bad at paraphrasing or implying intent.
Of course the loss is all that matters in the standings, and at this point for the Raps there probably isn’t much to be gained from losses of any type. They’re past the ‘moral win’ phase (a term that you initiated up top, I might add – not myself). But why do we always need to look for a scapegoat? Someone to blame? They played the title favourites and lost on a final shot to one of the best 2 players in the world. You know who else does that? Everybody in the goddamn league. Take some positives away, chalk it up to an entertaining game and move on.
You’re equating a 2 point loss in LA to the Lakers to a 16 point loss at home to Philly. Rethink that.
it’s all the same, IMO. a loss is a loss is a loss.
i’m not necessarily looking for someone to blame, unless it becomes something that is repeated over & over (like turk playing like shit), and then it’s only to see how they can improve in that area. it simply frustrates me that lineups, playing time, etc. seems to be determined more by size of one’s paycheque than by what they do on the court. ask yourself: if turk or jose were paid in accordance with their actual output, would either see such the court as much as they do in crunch time?
“i’m merely suggesting that had they gone into the game thinking ‘win’ vs. ‘keep it close & who knows,’ then maybe they’d have actually won”
please post the quote of who on the team (player, coach, staff) said or thought that?
“but don’t you see? even in your last line ‘…to the Lakers on the road no less…’ you’re making excuses.
you didn’t post the entire quote or what it was in reference to.
‘Apparently if you don’t bitch about every player and coach after losing a tight game (to the Lakers on the road no less) you are content with mediocrity. Please….’
thats the full quote…. not about winning or losing, but rather about how people around here are complaining about others who thought the raps played well. Two totally different things.
‘bullshit cop-out’
exactly what or who am I ‘copping-out’… how is saying ‘no one person cost us the game’ a cop-out.
For everyone who complained that the Raps didn’t have a ‘playoff mentality’ or ‘playoff style game’ for the last couple weeks. You got it last night. Funny how when you get what you want its suddenly not good enough anymore.
Hardcore Raps,
“we lost to the world champs on the final shot of the game…etc”
what world champs? The 100% Lakeshow that would have never let the Raps sniff at the chance of a win or the Lakeshow that effs around and admits the game was GARBAGE, but they still came back and won?
Don’t twist it into “hanging with the world champs” cuz you are a Rap fan… the game wasn’t just about “oh well, it came down to the last shot, that’s all we can ask for”
“Everyone played well and provided, no one person (or combo of people) costs the Raps the game”
Dude, you could say that after every game. It’s just not that simple… there are critical parts of the game where it is decided…people will argue who what where and why and we are all about teamwork, but don’t sweep everything under “participation is all that matters”. That complete loser talk and mentality.
Flux NBA champs are called the world champs. Again, call it semantics but its their title.
‘The 100% Lakeshow that would have never let the Raps sniff at the chance of a win or the Lakeshow that effs around and admits the game was GARBAGE, but they still came back and won?’
They sure didn’t let them sniff at a chance of winning the first time they played. Oh wait a minute they did win didn’t they. Gee the Lakers just don’t want to try when they go against the Raps huh.
‘you could say that after every game’
But I don’t now do I. I say that after a good team effort like last night, thats what it was even if no one was perfect and mistakes were made. That in no way indicates that ‘participation is all that matters’. (you have your words my mouth disease Flux… I don’t much appreciate it)
‘That complete loser talk and mentality.’
this coming from a guy that for 4 season has said all season says, (and I’m paraphrasing) ‘this team isn’t good enough’, ‘they won’t win’ and ‘they won’t go anywhere’.
If saying the Raps played well is ‘loser’ talk… then what is it when you never think your team can win or is good enough. I’m sure thats what real winners do before and after games.
You’re a joke.
You are a comedian.
Yeah, funny how no one was crying about the refs during that glorious affair. No, the Lakers could care less about the Raps. Are you reading what they are saying about them today? Laughing stock of the L, bud. Are they ever going to face the Raps in the playoffs? No. Trust me the Lakers are not spending vast amounts of energy trying to figure out Triano and the Raps. They look at the Raps for player they can add to their team and that’s about it.
No, you don’t. It what you do in general. I read your comments. You continually paint everything with pink and say who cares and it’s not that important. You wanna have it both ways bud, read your won comments… You say: sure it matters they lost one second, but really it doesn’t matter cuz in the grand scheme of things its one game, in one season and there is always next year, the next. Over and over again. You lie in the middle – failure to you is not a sign of something being wrong, only an opportunity to praise what went right and “what can be worked on”. “Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down.”
Yeah, I was being realistic about the actual result. What exactly have they done? Let’s not get into a “where the bar should be set” discussion. Point being, I don’t sit there and over hype the team when clearly the have no shot in hell. That’s REAL loser talk.
Keep the jokes coming. I got the popcorn in the mic.
‘Yeah, funny how no one was crying about the refs during that glorious affair’
actually you were…
Yeah and what does that tell you? People only cry when the calls are not ending up in wins.
Hey man, you wanna do the “we hung we the champs and almost swept them” dance, when both games, in the end, the Lakeshow was in control of the outcome and played well below full potential, that’s fine. But don’t be screaming about how you are better fan then everyone else and calling them jokes, just because they want to pinpoint what exactly led to the loss and are unhappy with the team performance. To some people it actually does matter and it’s not just another loss, who cares there is always next year.
Macy O’Baston says:
Mar 10, 2010 at 9:44 am 2d1a66
You play to win, which is done in the playoffs. To do well there, you need to win as many games in the regular season as possible. That requires you to plan for not only the game at hand but the short-term future as well. You can’t wear the players down and expect them to be fresh when they’re needed most. Ignoring the need to consider upcoming games is a recipe for disaster, and limiting Bosh’s minutes this year is a big part of what’s kept him at an elite level all season.
This isn’t some game 7 where a loss would’ve doomed the team. Of course you play to win the game, but the Lakers game is no more important than tonight’s, or Friday’s, or Saturday’s.
Just because moral wins don’t count in the standings doesn’t mean they don’t exist. There are positives to be taken from this game.
First of all, “You play to win, which is done in the playoffs”. The team has to make the playoffs first. With the Bobcats, Bulls and Heat all making runs for the playoffs the Raptors can’t be having the don’t worry its the regular season attitude. Like Yertu said “We ain’t the ’86 Celtics”. “You can’t wear the players down” I agree with giving JJ his rest, but to put him back with 5mins left in the game when he was playing so well earlier?? Plus when you get him back in there he’s playing the 2 and buried in the corner. And speaking of Moral victories..Moral victory to me is a term that mommies use to make their little kids feel better when they lose!! If we accept these games that we SHOULD have won as Moral victories, then we are a franchise that can always expect to be fighting to JUST get into the playoffs instead of a team that can contend for an Eastern Conference title let alone an NBA Championship.
What he is saying is the next game matters aswell… he is not hiding that the Raps need to win. Was it important to take this one yeah. (and there were alot of factors mitigating that one way or another). But regardless of whether the Raps won or lost…. they need to win tonight, and in 2 days and, as of right now, each game down the stretch.
I don’t see how thats a “Mediocre Mentality”. Lets keep winning, as opposed to ‘this is the only game that matters’.
Don’t give me that ‘should have won’ bullshit. This was a 50-50 game and the team with the last possession won. The Lakers had every right to it that we did.
By the way, anyone notice Pau on the bench until about 3 mins left? He had a solid game too, is Phil Jackson due to be fired?
Well no of course not! Phil Jackson is God! He can do no wrong! Jay Triano is a filthy Canadian who wouldnt be qualified to be a Raptors towelboy! Everything he does wrong! And I know the inside perspective of NBA coaching because I watch 70 Raps games a year!
Only because we are so mad at what happened. A won game thrown out of the window because the great Jay Triano couldnt make a good game decision. That is plain it Macy.
Everyone seems to be under the impression the Raps had this game won, if only Triano didn’t give it away. This baffles me. Just a shocking lack of reality.
Macy’s right. What if Turk doesn’t turn it over? I don’t think Arse is writing an anti Triano post.
Just more Raptors fans looking for excuses. No game is ever in the bag until the last buzzer has rung. What if, what if? Even good teams lose leads to bad teams, and the Lakers aren’t even a bad team. Look at the 21 point 4th quarter comeback by the Celtics against the Nets in the 2002 playoffs. Look at Reggie Miller and his 8 points in 8.9 seconds. A 5 point lead is a mere 2 possession game, and Kobe is Kobe. Kobe made the shot, they deserved the win, suck it up fans.
Triano loves what he loves. He doesn’t come off as a stubborn guy in the media, but rest assured he will be doing what he will be doing and that’s it. Facts be damned. Situational awareness be damned. I thought him pulling Jack with a minute and change in the third was a great move. I thought he would get him 5 minutes of rest over the quarter intermission and have him start the fourth. WTF??????? Sitting him til the 5 minute mark of the fourth?????? Had the raps been playing phenomenal ball without him???? He didn’t even play him for half the fourth quarter!!!!!! He was the one guy who exuded confidence the entire game. The one guy who had the lakers on their heels. The one guy they couldn’t stop. And you pull him long enough to lose a solid lead against a tough opponent in a game you’ve got a monster chance at winning. Embarassing.
Triano loves to close out the game with Calderon/Jack. WTF? They get exposed defensively. Turnovers (other than Turk’s) hadn’t been an issue tonight so why force the “no-turnover” crunch time team down our throats???? Please play a proper two guard down the stretch (okay not proper, but play one that we’ve got).I don’t get it. Triano gave this one to the Lakers.
voy there are 50 million reasons he went with Turk down the stretch. There’s no other explanation. None. That Turk turnover was an embarassment. If he motions to the bucket he draws the foul.
The fourth quarter refereeing was an embarassment. Referees, for the billionth time: Kobe Bryant and the world championship Lakers do NOT need help winning the game in the fourth quarter. Please stop.
agreed..he pulled him with a minute and change left in the 3rd and i thought he’d definitely start the 4th too…..even Jack was shown on TV looking over that the coaches with that WTF look.
Putting Jack in with Hedo and Jose is also a waste cuz Jose and Hedo will just stand there with their hands up calling for the ball and not cutting or moving, JJ needs to run and penetrate and dish, Hedo never cuts to the key, neither Barg for that matter, I thought the 5 that ended the game was horrible…I’d have subbed Weems in for Hedo or Jose to get a little more movement and athleticism in there…ugh ..what a wasted moment.
That stupidity with Jack & Jose playing together has to stop!
Somebody should send all this blogs to raptor’s management for them realized what’s wrong with the raptor.
Yes, because all us fans are obviously so much more knowledgeable than the coaches and GMs in the NBA. It’s ridiculous that so many of us aren’t employed by NBA teams, absolutely ridiculous!
“…there are 50 million reasons he went with Turk down the stretch. There’s no other explanation.”
Going a tad far arent you? Assuming you’re not aware of these explanations – please follow along:
1) He’s the only experienced wing player we have.
2) He’s a tough guard who has a solid all-around game
3) He has an array of unblockable offensive moves (fadeaways etc)
4) He’s a player that LA cant double off of due to his range (unlike Weems or Derozan)
5) He’s a player that the coaching staff wants to keep involved during the season since we’re toast without him in the playoffs
He played pretty crappy. He’s still a good NBA player who has shown he can be an impact player in the right system.
P.S. Claiming complete certainty is the only thing I can be completely certain is false.
Once again Triano proves he is not an NBA caliber head coach. I can accept giving Jack some rest, but he still only played 30 minutes.
But, what was working for the Raptors? Answer: the ball in JJ’s hand as a point guard. He was tearing up the Lakers.
So what does Jay do? He puts Jack in at the two guard spot so (1) the ball is not in his hands and (2) he is now covered by Kobe Bryant.
This was a winnable game, yet Jay doesn’t have the balls to go for the jugular. Instead he plays cautious basketball so that his boys will be rested for tomorrow. The Raptors are a soft team because they have a soft coach.
This loss is all on Triano. The Raps will rarely have a better chance of winning in L.A. than they did going into the fourth last night.
Excellent point about Jack being re-inserted at the off-guard without the ball in his hands. Totally different than what his role was in the third. No wonder all he did was score two FTs once he came back.
Jack was +2 and Calderon -2 for the game
Calderon is shooting 39% for the year on his threes. He was 0 – 3 last night including at least one 4th quarter miss.
This whole thread would have been tossed out if Calderon had made just one of his three’s last night.
How can people keep defending Triano on some of these points? Even Brandon Roy expressed his wonder that Jack was taken out for so long after he was killing Portland in their last game. When you have a guy playing very well, you don’t sit him for that long. He doesn’t need that much rest.
The Turkoglu-Jack-Calderon lineup? Is anyone seriously claiming that this works more often than it fails? What other coach uses a crunch-time lineup that never plays together the rest of the game?
What has Turk done this season to warrant the constant trust in getting the ball in crunch-time possessions? Does that work more often than not?
Triano isn’t the worst coach in the league, but his insistence on using certain rotations and the play-calling down the stretch of tight games is baffling at best, stubborn and insane at worst. I’d settle for idiotic. Unfortunately, he acts like a nervous coach who retreats to concepts he has in his mind that are safe, even if they have no bearing on what actually happens on the court. The Turk-Calderon-Jack lineup should have been shelved permanently after game 10, at the latest. Anyone who keeps defending this has the maple leaf tattooed on their eyeballs.
Umm, when did Hedo get the ball in the clutch? Once was a basic pass to the wing that he fucked up (a play needed to start an offense), the other was off an o-board, which obviously Triano didn’t draw up.
What can we say, we have a coach who doesnt think right. Benching Jack when the Rpas were 5 pts up. Did Triano think that 5 pts is a very comfortable lead that he benched the guy that was making the plays?
Enough off Triano. He has wasted a number of games that were winnable because of his wrong decision making. Grrrrrr….
What a coach.
TnT blows shiet up. And until you remove TnT (Turk n Triano)from our team, our team will implode. Turk was THE WORST aquisition Colangelo has ever made. NO WAIT…..signing Triano was.
I too was shocked when Jack was pulled from the game for so long. It’s starting to look like the Ford/Calderon season when either the coach or GM has this delusional idea that you can just split the playing time for the PG’s. This season, and last night especially, Jack was the far better point guard. He should be playing 75% of the minutes at that position and not pulled when he is on a roll. I’m starting to think it wasn’t just Ford that was the problem in terms of attitude that season. Calderon doesn’t go public with playing time complaints, but why is JT afraid to designate him as the back up PG? He is at this point.
Most important question of our season so far. Seriously.
Keeping Jack out was not the end game. Great move by Triano in going zone, that neutralized the Lakers triangle. As well, out of timeouts Raps executed beautifully ex. Calderon driving on the baseline for the quick score, Bosh three to tie it up. I doubt if Jack played more it would have changed the outcome. Kobe would have still scored, if he missed the ref’s would have called a phantom foul and put him on line anyhow…this loss was caused by turnovers and foul trouble.
the real blame should be on this dude here. how he’s able to get floor seats at a lakers game is why this world is unfair:
http://fantacancio.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lapo.jpeg
..not to mention that jackass that tipped the ball away from Calderon going out of bounds and gave the Lakers possession. Im sure if someone at the ACC does that they’re shown the exit, but in LA he’s a hero.
Here is a story/clip from the NY Times on the play. I am unsure that Calderon could have made a play though.
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/courtside-fan-has-a-hand-in-the-game/
that moron Lapo guy should not get away with this.
I’d say lock him up in a sauna with Reggie Evans.
I dunno who’d like it more, the ball-grabbing Reggie Evans or the transvestite-loving Lapo… ugh thanks for the image haha
so many things going against the boys last night.
those 2 phantom fouls on Bosh and Wright on the sacred 24 should have made a difference.
jack played, and carried, the raptors the entire third quarter. you have to sit him, he’s not superman, he’s gonna be tired, unless you want him out of the game the last five minutes instead of in it.
and it was the refs that won the lakers this game. the entire fourth quarter and the phantom foul calls for the lakers and against the raptors should be more then enough evidence that this league is fixed. it was a disgrace. somebody really needs to call the nba on their shit.
great shot by kobe at the end to win it, although he needed to push off to catch the bal, he should never have been in a position to take it for the win. if it was reffed properly the raps would have walked out with a ten point win, the end.
Simple, the only mistake by the coach in this game was running out of Time outs for the last play. That’s the only thing. Beside that, the team played a totally different style of game than the last couple of weeks, the one that made us 5th in the EC. Playing this style, we won’t loss a lot of games until the season’s end.
It’s so easy to tell when the raptors are going to loose a game by a blow out and when they fight until the end
Its games like those when I think I can coach the raptors… and I have no coaching experience whatsoever.
As much as I hate to blame the coach for what the players do he is ultimately responsible, and Triano had a chance to give us a better shot at a win but wasted it by inserting a poor overmatched lineup at the end.The Jose, Jack, Turk thing hardly ever if ever pays dividends and is a stupid waste of time. Turk is and was and likely will be a disaster. The fourth quarter drive and pass was a good idea but it was clear the open man within his vision when he drove in was bargs on the left wing and he made a blind pass back for another TO. He stinks!! Jose controlling the ball and getting that many minutes when his shot was not falling is just plain poor coaching. Jose is slow, cannot pass to anyone but Bosh and Amir, and pretty much makes me cringe just to watch him more nights than not now, and Triano keeping Jack on the bench too long and then inserting him to close out the game at SG where he hardly touched the ball was idiotic at best. No question Triano takes the blame for not giving us a better shot.
Much like how BC blamed their early struggles on the absence of the great Reggie Evans his next dodge will be to say that he really never has had “his guy” as the coach. He will fire Triano as soon as the heat really gets turned up (like when we miss the playoffs) and sell us or more accurately buy himself a little more time to continue the charade! This guy can’t get anything done. Since the moves to get Parker and Garbo from Europe he hasn’t made one good pick, trade, signing period. Okay, Jack is solid but he could have been had for 5 million less from all reports. I can’t wait until this offseason when he uses his last card which is their mid level exemption to sign Larry Hughes to a 5 year $30 million deal!