There’s nothing to complain about. It’s an odd feeling for a Raptors fan, or even a Toronto sports fan. The team’s rising in the standings, coming together as a unit defensively, playing the offensive team basketball that we all hoped to see in pre-season and even getting some attention down south. The “fire the coach” chant is barely audible and there’s even talk in the air of an MIP award for Bargnani and a MVP award for Bosh. So what do we talk about?
Racking up regular season wins feels great but the recent memory of playoff failures has me thinking ahead to the inevitable post-season and what stands to be a tough matchup against Atlanta, Boston or Orlando, three teams we have a combined 1-8 record against this year. The good news is that our big guns have showed absolutely no signs of slowing down and are only getting better. Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani’s scoring has been on the rise as the months go on and we’ve found harmony at the point-guard position. DeRozan’s been steadily getting better and Belinelli’s become more consistent in his role as the offensive spark off the bench. The only guy that isn’t pulling his weight is Turkoglu and it’s scary to think how efficient we could be if he begins to become the clutch player we thought he was.
Could the team as it currently stands challenge one of those three teams in the vacuum of a 7 game series? It’s hard to answer that question because we’re assuming that the Raptor team we saw earlier in the year is vastly different than the one that’s playing right now. 7 out of the 8 losses in the 1-8 record happened before the Raptors “found themselves” and more importantly, their defensive identity (the defensive tweaks Triano talks about as having a great effect on the overall team defense were nothing more than providing help only when needed). The recent Boston defeat was disheartening as ever but despite that you have to believe that we’re definitely not as bad as we looked in November and December. Yes, we’re also not as great as we’re looking right now but I have to believe that our current form is a truer indication of what this team is capable of.
As bandied about as it is, the return of Reggie Evans could be a huge X-Factor for us. It’s not to say that Amir Johnson hasn’t done a good job as the first big off the bench, but at the same time he struggles with consistency as we saw against the Kings. There’s a lot of talk (including the poll on the site) that Evans might steal minutes away from Johnson, but I really don’t see it that way. The guys he should be “stealing” minutes away from are Bosh and Bargnani so that they can be fresher for the post-season. Bargnani is playing a career-high 34.4mpg and Bosh is at 36.1mpg, how these two will hold up playing these minutes for the next 31 games is anybody’s guess but needless to say, an injury would be crushing.
If Evans can give us 10 minutes of good defense and lineups with him have a +/- of around 0 or so, I’d say that’s job well done. If those 10 minutes can be shaved off of Bosh or Bargnani’s playing time in some way, all the better. I understand that lineups having Evans and Johnson won’t exactly be offensively efficient, but as long as they buy us some time when the game is being played to a stalemate it’ll be considered good minutes. Bosh is echoing similar thoughts (well, not really):
It will be five or 10 very intense minutes. Reggie only has one speed. He plays very, very hard. Just to have a guy like that back, I think it’s good for us energy-wise. I think with him and Amir [Johnson], they can really provide a lot of deflections on defence, second-chance points and things of that nature.
Triano is targeting a Wednesday return which sees him go against his former team.
I’d like to play him on Wednesday if I can. I don’t know if it will be significant minutes, we’ll see how it goes.
You can watch Reggie’s interview here. I would summarize it but I can’t follow what he’s trying to say and gave up after about 30 seconds.
A guy that’s found is groove of late is Antoine Wright, he’s playing within his skill-set and according to him understands his role much better. He complimented Triano on putting his foot down which is a far cry from his earlier criticism of the coach about not getting in the face of players.
Everybody’s really honed in on what we want to do and bought into the system. Everybody’s really comfortable with their roles…It’s an attitude, once you got a couple wins under your belt, you kow what it takes and you approach the game differently. You never have that attitude where you’re going to be out of the game.
Coach is doing a good job of holding everybody accountable. Earlier in the season things weren’t said to guys and they were expected to get it on their own. I think he did a good job of putting his foot down and really stressing on what he wanted and guys did a good job of responding.
Him and Triano have met each other halfway, he’s stopped pretending to be a polished offensive player and Triano’s decided to point out to his players (ahem, Bargnani) when he needs to be doing more on defense. You get the feeling that Wright’s respect for Triano has grown and I’m sure the same is true for Jack, the other guy who made those harsh comments after the Atlanta blowout.
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I’m a little excited about the dunk-in, the only question is whether DeRozan’s ankle will prevent him from putting on a show and whether people will be impressed by the 6′3″ Eric Gordon pulling out a mediocre dunk. They tend to do that, just look at Nate Robinson. The voting will happen via SMS and I for one will actually send in my vote, I ask you do the same. Here’s DeRozan talking about the dunk-in a few days back.
I got a couple that’ll really get the people on their feet…I want to show them something a little bit new…I have to do enough to get past Eric Gordon and save the best for the main event.
I like DeRozan, but I think Weems can give him a run for his money when it comes to dunks.
Finally, if you comment, please read this.
134 Raps
Reggie will bring another level of intensity and energy, and I actually think a Reggie / Amir combo with the 1-3 players the Raps can put out there, all of whom can score and create, could be effective offensively. Amir has shown he can operate down low, and with him and Reggie taking up space and banging for rebounds, players like Turk, Jack, Jose, Marco, and Weems can just let the shots fly and zip around the court unimpeded (ok, maybe “zip” is a little strong for Turk, but you know what I mean). I’m excited for tomorrow night.
Reggie will be our Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman …. just watch …!!!!!
I hope so! We could use a little Rodman in the paint.
I’ve never agreed with FAQ more.
Dr_Claw says: “I’ve never agreed with FAQ more.”
Where are you when I need you …..?????!!!!!
A little D and a half dozen boards a game and we get better. Even 10 minutes and some match up swaps is enough to make a serious difference.
He’s not going to win us anything. He will just add another piece to help us win. Plus he’s as tough as a two dollar steak. You can’t have enough of that…
Huh? you like two dollar steak?
Naw…..you make a good point on the toughness……syntax just seemed funny
If reggie lives up to his tough billing the guy should get plenty of court time. Bargs Bosh and Turk are all skill players in the same mold. Come playoff time when the gloves are off we need a fighter. Remember what San antonio did to the Suns a few years back…And the Cavs have Shaq and a few other bruisers on the glass.
I couldn’t care if he gets no rebounds or points, as long as he punches Garnett in the face and dunks on Pierce and kicks him in the nuts.
I think if he did that he’d be our MVP.
haha agreed!
lol. might’ve laughed a bit too hard at that one … but damn, it felt good.
i want to see reggie in uniform again for 2 reasons:
1. so he could give out the energy that well all know. like CB4 said, he plays in one level only which is FAST. and that is good.
2. so we can all say goodbye to all his street clothes.
I would say that it is unfair for Arsenalist to mention Bargnani (as the player Triano was handling with kid gloves) when rehashing the team meeting of a couple of months ago .
The defensive problems were everywhere at the time , involving almost every player and there is no proof that Triano was tough on some players (the American ?) but soft on others (the Europeans ?) when they were screwing up . In other words he was treating everybody with kid gloves. Perhaps now he is more critical and point out mistakes or perhaps he doesn’t want to screw up with the chemistry that is still growing within the team and remain relatively quiet.
damnit! should have put money on cesco being first to over-react to arse’s inclusion of bargs.
The meeting was more about the players becoming more vocal with each other when messing up defensive assignments . The problem existed because there was no team leader (a la KG) and too many new players ,most of them young trying to take their cue from the older players .
the players were a lot more clear and vocal about what the meeting was about and what the issues were. not everyone was being held responsible on the curt and it was the ‘it’s alright, it’s alright, there there’ reaction from the coaches that was causing problems.
it’s not bad to say that barg’s was one of the problems. it just shows that he took it to heart and decided to take a weakness and try to improve upon it which he has. it’s better for him to battle and make it on his own and earn his teammates respect then have a GM and coaching staff willing to spoon feed him and cuddle him when he makes mistakes.
everyone knows that there were defensive problems as a team and that includes everyone, but we also know that there are certain players that play more minutes who’s affect on the game is larger and barg’s wasn’t defending well individually or as a team defender earlier in the year. his rotations were non-existant and he looked lost. we’ve seen large improvements from him since ‘the meeting’.
It should be noted that the players with the big mouths are both playing a lot better after the meeting. Maybe they are also more accepting of criticism’s also.
Everyone just assumes that Triano was pussy-footing around Bargnani’s fragile ego. However, it could also be argued that Calderon was the culprit for the defensive woes and players were upset that Triano wasn’t calling out Jose for fighting through screens.
I am not one to read too much into player comments, however, during post practice interviews yesterday, Wright had mentioned that the defense has improved because guys are now “putting more effort on the defensive end and fighting through screens”
oh, i wouldn’t doubt at all that Calderon was one of them. without question i’m certain he’s been given some coach cuddling as well.
the only difference between the two in my opinion is that barg’s did something about it (we can’t deny that he had some serious defensive issues early in the year), whereas calderon hasn’t and is now coming off the bench.
in my opinion calderon still hasn’t improved defensively. sunday was another example of it. i’m not saying that evans isn’t super off the dribble but when jose was on him it’s like he wasn’t even there. we all can see clearly that jose is not apt to fight through screens either and loves to switch. yes that would mean he has to guard a big which makes no sense, but if the ball goes to the big he knows the double is now going to come and help him right away.
speaking of t. evans someone needs to tell j. armstrong it’s pronounced ‘ty-reak’ not ‘ty-reaky’. lol
To be fair, asking Jose to guard Tyreke is like asking him to guard Lebron:)
He has demolished many a PG thus far in his young career.
agreed, but why not pick a spot or try to anticpate where he is going, body him up, or take a foul. watching him spin or cross over going by you while you’re watching must be frustrating.
even from a non-professional level if you’re guarding someone better than you, you at least want to try and put up some resistance even if it means fouling.
i wouldn’t feel good about my man killing me constantly and i would at least try and body him or reach (fouls? yes, but show some pride).
jose seems content with letting guys fly past him. he’s the first point of resistance. if opposing pg’s are getting to the rim immediately, everything goes bad in a hurry.
I honestly think Calderon is an above average defender when properly motivated. He’s shown a bit of shut-down ability against Paul and the Celtics at times, he is just a bit of a coaster at times…
“I honestly think Calderon is an above average defender when properly motivated.”
I’m a huge defender (no pun intended) of Calderon, but I certainly wouldn’t go this far. As with most players, they matchup defensively better with certain players, and worse with others. It’s not motivation that is Calderon’s problem a lot of the time, but physical limitations. Calderon is generally smart defender, but has problems keeping up with quicker players. I think his biggest problem is that he has to anticipate the direction a quicker player will go, and if he anticipates wrong, or the player sees what he is doing, it appears he just lets them blow by him. The players he seems to guard better, he probably is able to simply read better.
For anyone here who plays, aren’t there some guys who guard you better than others, and visa versa? There are guys I give fits to defensively, because of my style of defense and ability to read their moves. Other guys I won’t even guard because I know I’ll get lit up.
Agree with Tim W. I like Calderon as well, but he’s a subpar/average defender to me. It’s because he’s much more than a slightly above average PG on the offensive side that he has value to me.
Sleepz, I don’t get why you and others constantly feel the need to compare NBA ball with street ball or high school ball. And if you watch how some college players dominate even against decent basketball programs only to bust in the NBA, you’d know that college ball is also not worth comparing, despite what’s said by the so many supposed college standouts here. I’m sure the team would find it very beneficial to have Calderon fouling a la Amir Johnson. Given Calderon’s defensive deficiencies, it’d be more ideal for him to guide his mark to the help, not commit tacky fouls.
I also think that Bosh and Bargnani do not have faith in Jose to keep his man in front of him and fight through screens. Both Bosh and Bargnani are always so quick to switch onto Jose’s man. Alternatively, our bigs barely hedge when Jack or Wright is defending the point of attack and seem to be confident that Jack will get back on his man. Bargnani’s best defensive stretch of the season was when Calderon was out. I wonder if Calderon has anything to do with this?
Nope, you are totally right. This is why Jose has to go, sooner or later. We need a modicum of defense at the PG spot.
The Raptors have it in Jack and Banks. I actually think Banks could hold the fort in the playoffs (in limited action ofcourse). The Raps can worry about getting a solid 2cd unit PG in the offseason. IMO Jose is not needed for this team to have success.
We all know Jose isn’t a defensive stud and while he still has a ways to go I believe he has improved his D a little. With regards to trading him, unless some insanely one-sided deal came about (which I can’t see happening) I have to disagree. The Raptors finally have a great situation at the PG spot. 3 deep, all are NBA-level talent or better and they all know their roles. No need to upset that unless a spectacular trade scenario arises.
I like Jose I really do, but he’s well overpaid. If he was making 3-4 mil a year as our back up I wouldn’t complain. But Jose is making about 7-8 mil a year…which is insane for his skill
‘I honestly think Calderon is an above average defender when properly motivated. He’s shown a bit of shut-down ability against Paul and the Celtics at times, he is just a bit of a coaster at times…’
Edgar my man, I’m going to have to whole heartedly disagree with you on that one.
Keep in mind that Calderon seems to motivated oh…. about 5% of the time…. so overall he’s still poor.
The same applies for Turk – and keep in mind we’ve all seen Turk stup up on the defense – he needs to have a reason to play D that night – which is rarely the case…
This isn’t true. Re-watch a bunch of recent games. Switching seems to have become an automatic component of the Raptors new defensive scheme. It might be true to say that the scheme has been changed to match the players (ie. Jose’s weaker man D) but to say that Bosh/Bargs are switching off on the guard because they “do not have faith in Jose” is speculative at best.
It is definately speculative and I have come to my conclusion based on watching “recent games”. The key being recent, as in when Calderon was back in the regular rotation. During that stretch when Calderon was out, I noticed far less switching and a more simplistic yet effective defensive scheme.
I cannot say for sure that Calderon is the problem. However, the way I see it, the Raptors are getting back to their bad habits of allowing dribble penetration into the heart of their defense.
I can confirm that the switching on defense was something they were doing without Calderon in the lineup. It was a strategy they started doing after the Hawks game and have done it consistently ever since.
If I recall correctly the Rap’s were switching EVERYTHING earlier on in the year. Thats why in games against PHX (and many others) we were asking why is Bosh and Barg’s covering Nash so often, or why was Jose down low guarding Amare and other bigs?
Earlier in the year they were switching endlessly because I remember thinking to myself that no other team in the NBA does this, why do we?
After ‘the meeting’, they switched less and tried to guard their checks more often. They still switch when it’s necessary don’t get me wrong, every team does, but how often are we getting the size mismatches now? Not as often as what we saw earlier in the season.
To me switching is necessary when you can’t fight through a pick or on inbounds plays when you need to ensure that you are not getting caught in quick screens.
They were switching way too much when the season started and not spending enough time trying to guard their man individually.
Don’t forget, the amount of switching probably has something to do with the opposing players. Against some teams, Jay might not feel the need to switch as much.
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Jose has not been the sharpest on defense, but Sunday’s game is not one to reinforce that thinking – especially the 4th quarter (which he played in total). That Quarter saw a 14 point swing in Raptors favour, with Sacramento scoring ONLY 17 points.
Granted, he may not be the simple reason for a better defense in the 4th, but he was part of the group that made it possible.
As for Tyreke Evans, his point total for the game was almost 1/2 his season average, and his 4th quarter production was ZILCH. NO points, NO assists. And the Kings were leading when he came into the game (in the 4th Quarter).
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Mistake me if I am wrong, but, wasn’t Wright guarding Evans? Hence, Evans lack of production.
I would have put it on nomas, shows how much I know
Let’s not forget that Sam Mitchell publicly stated (this year) that he had to “take it easy” on Bargnani because he couldn’t handle the criticism. On the other hand, he also admitted riding Bosh and Calderon into the ground.
The two preseason games Reggie played, he got to EVERY ball available.
Yes, it was only preseason, but the guy has hustle and a nose for the ball.
I’ve been waiting for him to play all season. He might be the x-factor to get us past one of the big four in April.
He also had a tendency to force up bad shots after grabbing offensive rebounds. Let’s see if he’s learned some discipline from watching the first 50 games, and instead kicks the ball back out to reset the offense.
The fact he gets boards he has no business getting will offset his occasional ’superstar’ moments if you consider any points the Raptors get off those plays bonus.
You can’t really play a combination of Reggie/Amir as there is not enough offence. So if Reggie is going to play either
a) Amir will play less minutes or
b) Bosh & Bargnani will spend less time on the court together
Not sure either of these are a good thing?
bosh & bargs spending less time together…hmmm. andrea really seems to step into the role as primo offensive player when bosh is on the bench. having him play with either amir or reggie helps him focus on that aspect, and less on having to rebound.
as offensively gifted as the raps are as a team, a big chunk of that comes from those two. i don’t think they have enough explosiveness coming from the wings to make up for the absence of both bosh & bargs – my thinking is that one or the other will be on the floor at all times (well, within reason i.e. not during blow-outs, etc.).
that being said…if turk has actually turned the corner, i could see an amir-reggie-turk-DD/weems-jack/jose lineup being somewhat effective, at least against the majority of 2nd units.
reggie should bring them some energy & hustle, and help swing momentum when they hit the inevitible lull of productivity. he’s no saviour, and no one should be expecting him to be what he’s been built up as.
Reggie’s personality is much more valuable than his game. Think of the personalities Reggie, Hedo, Wright, Weems, Jack and Derozan bring to the team…night and day compared to last year.
I’m perfectly fine with b. Bosh and Bargs have had enough time on the court together so far this season, and their chemistry has developed to a respectable level. We need to play both less minutes and keep their legs fresh for the post-season.
Couldn’t we pair them in the second unit? Amir, Jose and Belinelli + Wright all have offensive talents – Wright in the corner, Jose and Belinelli know how to get Amir easy looks and then have Evans clean up the glass for putbacks and defense. I think it could be viable against the second units of other teams for 12~ minutes a game?
Agreed. It’s not like Amir and Reggie would be on the court together for half the game. In short spurts with the right lineup, I believe they will work fine together on the court. Maybe even be that unit to put in the game when the Raps are lagging and need some hustle and spark.
His interview wasn’t too hard to understand..
Ripp, to get back to a discussion in a previous thread, the difference between the ORTG/DRTG numbers on basketball-reference.com and basketballvalue.com. I emailed basketball-reference about this. Neil Paine responded:
“Actually, they’re not really measuring Dean Oliver’s individual efficiencies — what they’re measuring on that page is the Raptors’ offensive and defensive rating when Calderon is in the game (and also when he isn’t in the game), which is the cornerstone of the on/off plus/minus they use at that site. But when we say “offensive rating” or “defensive rating” for individuals, we’re talking about using the formulas in Basketball on Paper to estimate the number of points produced and allowed per 100 possessions by a player, based on his box score stats. These numbers are measuring two very different things, which explains some of the huge differences you saw.”
Good call, thanks for following up. I don’t have the Dean Oliver book, but this blog post (http://www.basketballgeek.com/2009/10/25/individual-offensive-efficiency-ratings-extracted-from-play-by-play-data/) seems to describe in more detail how it is calculated.
A key part of Oliver’s formula is to estimate the quality of assists through eFG% (effective FG%). So Jose Calderon’s assists are worth more if they lead to higher percentage shots. My suspicion is that the Dean Oliver formula overstates the value of Calderon’s assists. Calderon has an Oliver offensive rating similar to Nash, but I’d argue that his assists are of far less quality.
There are actually a lot of problems with Oliver’s methodology. You only get credit if you make an assist, not if you get a hockey assist. It tries to estimate quality of assists (i.e., difficult of shots), and evidently does a poor job of doing so for Calderon.
Oliver’s formulas don’t even pass a basic smell test. How can Jose Calderon have an offensive rating of 123 for the 2008-2009 season, Bosh with 114, etc, etc, and the team as a whole have a rating of 107? The team rating should be a weighted combination of the individual ratings for his formulas to make sense..
In statistics/machine learning, you generally want to avoid estimating additional parameters unless absolutely required. And some of these parameters that Oliver is estimating/assuming are quite sensitive. I think this is the big problem with Oliver’s model.
Anyway, given these issues, I’d trust be more inclined to trust the basketballvalue.com ratings.
Bleh, typo after typo. Hopefully you understand my point, though.
Basketballvalue is still using the same formula, but is applying it to the entire team rather than the individual player. It’s more difficult in that situation to determine what an individual player is doing, because of the influence of the other 4 guys. I choose the individual stat for this reason, because it partially eliminates the effect of playing with poor teammates. The team metric eplains what is happening with all 5 guys when that player is on the floor, which puts a tremendous strain on that player to produce MVP-like numbers. I don’t think any good/mediocre/bad player would show up with great numbers, so the metric just tells us what we already knew: guys like Bosh have a huge effect on the team’s fortunes, and guys like Bargnani, Weems, Belinelli et al. don’t.
Calderon’s high ORTG is no doubt indicative of his highly efficient style of play. High shooting percentages, low turnovers, lots of assists. You’re being unscientific by saying “the metric can’t be right because I don’t think Jose is that good”.
Whatever problems there are in the metric are also applied to everyone else in the league. But there is no one metric that is completely flawless, nor one that says all that needs to be said about any player. I choose the ORTG:DRTG stats together because they tell me if that one guy is doing his part, especially if those numbers are better than the team at large.
So to be clear, there are three formulas.
Here are the two that Dean Oliver uses for team and individuals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_rating
Notice the vagueness for individual rating in “Points Produced”. The link I gave earlier describes how “Points Produced” is calculated, and how it requires an estimate of the value of an assists.
Basketballvalue.com uses an entirely different approach. It says, Jose Calderon was on the floor for X minutes. In this X minutes, his team scored Y points, in Z offensive possessions. Let’s give him an offensive rating of Y/Z.
As you point out, this methodology can also be applied to the team.
I don’t think Oliver’s ORTG is correct not because of my feeling about the value of Calderon’s assists, because it doesn’t seem to normalize properly. I can’t take Oliver ratings for players, weight by minutes played, then get the right team offensive rating (points scored divided by offensive possessions.) If Jose Calderon truly has an offensive rating of 123, Bosh at 114, then it is nearly impossible for the team rating to be 107. Those are two key guys playing major minutes who are in the top echelon of the league, by this metric. It either implies that the rating sucks, or the rest of the team is hot garbage. And you can quickly check for yourself that enough other guys who played heavy minutes also had good ORTGs.
This should be enough to tell you that Oliver’s ORTG is screwy.
I’m not seeing the same discrepancy between the team’s ORTG and the individual player as you. This season the team is at 111.8 (right behind Phoenix), while a number of regular contributors are below that — Bargs, Belinelli, Weems, DDR, Turkoglu. Only Bosh, Jose, Amir and Jack are above it, of the regulars, that is.
Look at 08-09
Also, keep in mind that the basketballvalue.com numbers do have this desirable property (just by the way they are calculated.) Yet Oliver’s rating do not (you can probably do this by calculating the weighted average by hand for 08-09 or 09-10.)
that’s a good point re. the jose/nash comparo & the weighting of assists in accordance to ease of shot that’s created. it’s easy to point to nash & all the ‘easy’ buckets he creates & determine that, based solely on that metric, there’s no way that jose creates similarly ‘easy’ shots for his teammates. i would hazard a guess that a greater % of jose’s assists come as a result of a made jumper compared to nash, who likely has a higher (than jose) % of assists that come as a result of a close-range shot (i.e. in the paint).
that being said – the metric takes more factors into consideration, of course. the offset of creating ‘easier’ shots is that those tend to be higher risk assist attempts, and this is evidenced by nash’s much higher TO %…which, IMO, is what brings jose’s & nash’s respective metrics closer than we assume they should be. nash is more creative, but the risk in being creative is the turnover, something jose is excellent at minimizing. like most metrics, possessions are highly valued (one reason why rebounds are ‘worth’ so much), and so while nash creates more easy shots, he also gives up more possessions, levelling out that aspect – at least somewhat.
let’s not get stupid & compare their games, though. nash is a sure-fire HoFer, playing better at 35 than anyone could possibly have imagined (check his numbers against any PG at that age), and better than guys 10 yrs his junior. i’m not sure there are many players in the history of the game who have done more with less proverbial ‘basketball-specific’ athletic ability than nash.
The reason you can’t follow what Evans was trying to say, is because he was burned out of his mind during that interview. He made no sense about showing up to the game on Wednesday at 7:30, and was corrected by reporters about the start time (7pm). His eyes were shut red, his smile hillarious and his words jumble mumbled.
I paid close attention last night to the close up intereviews on big screen hd (Bosh, Wright, Coach then Reggie) and Evans looked out of this world man lol.
Love it.
Must add that his interview was hillarious, and that he’s got a unique sense of humour.
Reporter: “Are you a foot expert now”
Reggie: (confused look)
Reporter: “Are you an expert on feet now”
Reggie: “Nah dawg..i’m a basketball expert”
haha
I think the 7:30 comment made perfect sense. He’s not going to start the game and be on the floor at tip-off. We’ll likely see him on the court around 7:30.
Exactly. If anything, he outsmarted the reporters.
let’s hope he’s dried out for tomorrow night…
Arsenalist is exactly right. Evans’ minutes should come mainly from Bosh and Bargnani. And he should be the first big off the bench, on the same principle as DeRozan starting. That will be a good way to work him in and sort out his place in the rotation, be it with Johnson at times or with the B’s most of his minutes.
The main thing, though, is that he can cut down on the regular season wear-and-tear on B&B.
Everyone would love to see less minutes for Bosh, but the team seems to fall apart when he is off the court. So how do we balance that goal and actually winning games?
Are you saying that if he plays 3 less minutes in the first half and 3 less in the second half , the team will fall apart ? That means that if he leaves we are looking at being 9-73 next year ? Very comforting thought indeed.
the stats simply support that the raps are better when bosh is on the court than when he is off it (aka: duh). there have been games where the opponent made significant runs when he was on the bench. and there have been games where the opponent made significant runs when he was on the court, and other key guys were on the bench. over the long term, the stats indicate that more often than not, when bosh isn’t on the court, the raps aren’t as good. NOTE: this is not rocket science. in other news, the thunder are better when durant is on the court than when he’s off it. ditto for most decent-great teams – they play better when their best player(s) is/are playing.
it doesn’t mean the raps would go 9-73 without him, because others would step in & fill his role (to a degree), and if he were to leave, there would (hopefully) be other parts brought in that would (hopefully) replace some of his production. or not. whatever.
I think this is where people on this site have some trouble. Its a team sport. Bosh’s number may be far worse if we didn’t have Bargnani, or maybe they would be far better. If you remove a piece of the equation, a cog in the machine if you will, it will operate differently.
For example, if Kobe was our starting 2 (in my dreams), that doesn’t mean that we would be a better team. I know you are thinking that Kobe is top tier future HoF’er and ridiculously amazing so how could we be worse? Well again its a team sport, if the pieces around Kobe don’t mesh with his game or under preform, we lose. Its just that WITH a player like that, or a LBJ or a Bosh or a Wade, the potential for victory goes up as the QUALITY of the individual piece is so high. If Kobe would guarantee victory then it would be Lakers v. Cleveland finals every year. And yet somehow it isn’t.
So we can look at Bosh or Bargnani or throw individuals under a bus all we want. The machine is what wins the games. Not the cogs.
Great point yertu…
I just notice teams seem to make big runs right after he leaves. Sacramento game being the most prominent recent example.
Triano isn’t stupid either, he notices this. This is why he plays him so many minutes. Gotta do what you have to do to win games.
It isn’t really surprising…if CB is off the floor, then it makes it easier for opposing defenses. They can just guard straight up w/o morphing their defense to contain him.
exactly. bosh is really the only raptor who draws a double against most teams. as good as bargs as become, he’s not quite at the level where teams need to be thinking of doubling him. now, a big part of that is because he plays so much with bosh…no one’s gonna double bargs & leave the potential for bosh being open or in a favourable matchup after a switch.
what will be interesting to see is how bargs adjusts his game once teams start recognizing that there are situations that will require a double (like his left-block post move where he turns into the key & puts up a short hook-type shot that’s getting more & more solid, and seems to be quite unstoppable, or when bosh is out of the game & he becomes the go-to option for the raps).
Bargs also operates much less frequently in the low block (where it’s easy to send a 2nd defender). It’s almost impossible to double-team a guy when he’s standing at the top of the circle.
Reggie back is like a mid season trade for toughness into the lineup. Ooooh cannot wait for Evans rubbing foreheads with Perkins or Davis on the C#@tics.
Hope his physicality/hustle rubs off on the team as much as JJ’s and Wright’s oncourt vocal mo has. Should get the crowd jacked up as well.
You can’t measure what Reggie will bring to the team in the box score. He will get rebounds, but what he really brings is that intangible. Someone the players on the other team will be looking over their shoulder for. Not a thug, just the one guy out there on the Raptors who other teams know will definitely stand up for his team mates, and possibly inflict a nice hard foul on you. Someone who in the midst of fighting for a rebound may elbow you in the chops. May not seem important, but if you’ve ever played a sport, you know how important it is to have a guy like that on your bench, and how annoying he is to play against.
I would like to see Wince attack the paint with Reggie stading there. Reggie brings a dynamic to this team that was missing for most of last year. The Raptors have always been a better team when they had a hard-nosed PF. Think back to AD and Oakley and to a lesser extent Garbo. Lane intimidation is huge and Reggie will definately bring it. I am happy if Reggie plays 10-15 minutes a night, grabs some boards and puts someone on their ass.
Reggie Evans is the toughness of Charles Oakley, the hustle of JYD and the rebounding of Popeye Jones (ya, I said it!!) rolled up in one!
You guys are pinning a lot of hopes on a guy who is only going to be on the floor about 10-15 minutes a game.
I don’t think there is any “saviour” talk going on in this thread Tim…
Evans brings something to the table that is valuable both during the 10-15 minutes of court time that he will see and more importantly during the practise sessions. Hustle is infectious.
There is also the consideration that competition for minutes may bring more out of Amir…
+1
Barring injury, I expect Reggie to average only 5 minutes a night.
I expect that Amir will continue to be the first big off the bench. Reggie will be next. Rasho will only play if Andrea is having a really off night, is injured, or has picked up a bunch of fouls. POB will probably not see any court time for the rest of the season.
Unless, of course, the injury bug bites.
10-15 mins is plenty of time to ignite a momentum shift (whether it’s coming back from a big deficit, or blowing the game wide open). Reggie is the type of player – like Weems’ 48 seconds of madness that changed Sunday’s game – who can single-handedly change a game’s momentum in our favour.
All it takes is a tough rebound in traffic vs. 2 defenders, or saving the ball while diving out of bounds only to get back on defence and block a shot, or committing a hard foul on a player who has just torched us for 3 consecutive baskets. Reggie is that guy.
“I don’t think there is any “saviour” talk going on in this thread Tim…”
“I would like to see Wince attack the paint with Reggie stading there.”
“You can’t measure what Reggie will bring to the team in the box score. He will get rebounds, but what he really brings is that intangible.”
“Reggie back is like a mid season trade for toughness into the lineup. Ooooh cannot wait for Evans rubbing foreheads with Perkins or Davis on the C#@tics.”
I don’t think thats “savior”, I think that’s more “anticipation”.
My question is this:
If Reggie Evans is this valuable to a team, why would Philly give him up For J-Killa, almost nothing…sure Philly needed 3-point shooting, but Kapono is riding the bench and I don’t recall Philly being known as a tougher team when he was in the line-up. Sure he brings toughness, rebounding and energy off the bench, but I don’t beleive he can live up to the hype. For 8 months the “legend” of Reggie Evans has gotten bigger and bigger but I don’t feel his impact will be as significant as everyone beleives…here’s hoping I’m wrong.
You gave the answer within your question:
“…Philly give him up For J-Killa, almost nothing…sure Philly needed 3-point shooting, but Kapono is riding the bench…”
Oh i have no idea how he’s going to do. None whatsoever. AND I know hes not exactly Bill Russell reincarnated (or Charles Oakley for that matter). What I do know is that I’m an optimist and think he will bring some grit and some energy.
And those are welcome.
(you may now begin to mock me as the only optimist that posts here ;))
I am of the same suspicion, oh idiotic one.
I don’t recall grabbing another man’s family jewels being a sign of toughness. Sure the guy plays with energy and disrupts the game like a bowling ball..I still don’t see how he drastically changes the team for the better. We will see I guess. If it fails, we can just blame it on “not jelling”
No grabbing another man’s jewels is not a sign of toughness. However, it gets under the skin of the other team and throughs them off their game. Not sure if you are fan of hockey but, if you are think of Sean Avery.
It’s the same reason why Tie Domi was immortalized while playing for the Leafs (my apologies for the pucks reference). Torontonians love the blue-collar goons for whatever reason. Take a look at JYD. He’s probably one of the most popular Raptors of all time. But you certainly can’t explain that according to his per game stats.
Because Philly is stupid.
Tomorrow’s Game is a big Test for this team. Phily has been playing better lately and we have to see if Raptors going to come in, play their game and take care of the business.
They had 3 days off and will have few days after it as well so no reason to not give it all.
I don’t necessarily think its savior talk either. If Reggie plays as advertised, I fully expect him to take some hard fouls and prevent the soft and 1 fouls that has plagued the Raptors front court (with the exception of Amir). He is not going to turn this team into a great Defensive team (He has his own defensive deficiencies) and the Raptors are not going to be the best rebounding team. However, the Raptors will at least have some lane intimidation. I don’t know about you, but if I was driving the paint I wouldn’t want his clumsy ass anywhere near me.
Can Reggie be that post-defender that gives Bargnani some rest from guarding back-to-the-basket centres?
He was never really known for his defence as much as his rebounding, but hopefully he has watched the games and learned something the past few months. I still don’t know who we have that can match up against centres like Nene, Perkins, Dwight, Shaq, even Pau etc… Bargnani has been doing a better job of late, but I still don’t think he is strong enough to do it for a whole game, consistently without hurting his back.
Err…then we are screwed. Because Reggie sure as heck can’t guard those guys either.
I havent payed enough attention/seen enough of Reggie’s D to say, but I’d be willing to expirament with Reggie keeping big boys out of the paint by constantly battling for position – he’d be willing to do the work and is prolly strong enough for the job… But I agree that if he gets backed down under the net he’d be useless, although that goes for most any big really…
Here is a scouting report that I think is accurate (from what I have seen of him previously)
http://www.nbapostup.com/reggie-evans
I also tend to trust TSN’s fairly objective scouting as well
http://tsn.ca/nba/teams/players/bio/?hub=nba&id=683
Hasn’t he been in the league over 10 years now?
I don’t think a few months of watching the game on the bench is going to make him a solid post defender.
Unless he bought a copy of “Post Defense for Dummies”.
Then he could guard all those people at the same time!
in other words…Ripp….good point
Bosh guards a lot of those guys too. He does better against guys like Howard, anyway. Bargnani doesn’t fair as well against the stronger big men who bulldoze their way through defenders. Bosh is just much stronger, at this point.
“He was never really known for his defence as much as his rebounding, but hopefully he has watched the games and learned something the past few months.”
You think he learned in 3 months what he didn’t in 7 years in the NBA?
I am not sure that Bosh is physically stronger than Bargs in the post. I have seen Bosh get pushed around by bigger stronger guys. Whereas Bargs can hold his own when he uses his legs for leverage. If I remember correctly Bargs did a much better job holding his own against the likes of Howard.
It depends. I’ve seen Bargnani get pushed around by guys and had Bosh come in and push them out of the paint. The first game Orlando comes to mind, and the game against the Clippers. Bargnani tends to use his length when guarding in the post, Bosh, his strength. Obviously it’s not every time, but enough that I notice it.
“Bargnani doesn’t fair as well against the stronger big men who bulldoze their way through defenders. Bosh is just much stronger”
I would have to say the exact opposite to this. Bargs has proven he is the better match-up vs the brutes of the league. Bosh, for all his added strength, still gets run over by the big guys.
I don’t personally know who is the “stronger” of the two… but Bargs sure does keep those defenders further off the block than Bosh, and when they post up he gets down and battles while Bosh tends to end up right under the bucket.
This entire year Bargs has been the guy to defend Dwight, Shaq, Duncan, etc.
One of Bosh’s biggest weaknesses in his post defense is allowing post ups too close to the hoop, but it’s not because of lack of strength. I have noticed a BIG difference this year in being able to muscle guys on defense. He doesn’t generally guard the bigger guys because he needs to save his energy more for the offensive end. I think a lot also depends on the player. I do notice Bargnani has better success against Shaq and Duncan, but struggles more against Howard and Kaman.
he struggles with bogut as well.
No.
He’s a PF and won’t be directly assigned to cover centers, especially giants.
Good post nothing much to say. Don’t you guys find it strange that hockey players ( even the foreign ones) speak better english than most basketball/football players. Demar Derozan/Reggie/weems etc can barely put sentences together in their interviews. And most of the responses from players like these in the post game interviews sound very scripted.
Err..there are several dialects of English..the one you speak isn’t the only option. Try to be a bit more open minded. Or hang around a more diverse crowd, at least..
Is that what you call that language you Canadians speak? :)
This is some ultra-mega-ignorance. Do you find it strange that I understand Reggie but not Hedo? That I love basketball and am indifferent to hockey? That I eat roti and didn’t know what cold cereal was until last week?
What is the point? There is a magnificent variety of folks on this beautiful earth. Don’t point fingers like a kid in the mall when they see someone different.
You are missing the point. This has nothing to do with people being different. These athletes were born in North America, where English is the predominant language. It is acceptable for any athlete who spent most of their life overseas to not be able to speak english perfectly however for the the athletes born in North America it is not. This has nothing to do with race or culture. Relax, lets not make this into something its not. I know people love to do that.
Even within North America, there are many dialects of English spoken. Come visit urban and rural Texas. Lousiana. Georgia.
You keep missing the point…there is no “perfect” English. There are several dialects and variants, even within one small locality in the US.
“You are missing the point. This has nothing to do with people being different.”
It’s about the dialect of 3 African American athletes not fitting your idea of perfect English. This IS some ultra-mega-ignorance. No one person or group of people decides what perfect English is. As Ripp said, the standard changes with geography. Can you imagine what people from England think of your accent? CANADA1990 IS NOT SPEAKING PROPERLY!
Speech patterns have nothing to do with intelligence.
Good lord don’t start MVP chit chat about Bosh. It’s embarrassing.
Since you brought up the subject I’ll say he deserves a lot of consideration if he continues to be the best player on a team that is winning as much as the Raptors have the last 1\4 of a season. If they continue winning some of the games they are supposed to lose and don’t lose the ones they’re supposed to win and he continues to close out the year on fire then far from embarrassing you can make a valid case for him. Sometimes Raptor fans look down on their team while around the league there is a buzz about their improved play. I’m wondering how many “fans” would be negative even if they won a title. I can see some who are never satisfied saying it’s their only one or the teams they played were injured so they just had an easy run. Crap like that.
LeBron is casting a mighty shadow. For the entire season. Too mighty to make a valid case for anyone else, including Durant who is having quite a season himself. Fans can discuss CB4’s value without going over the top. And of course some people will never be pleased that’s how the song goes.
.
Put LeBron in place of Bosh, and this team would be Vegas odds on favourites.
.
Put Lebron on any team and they are odds on favorite.
I like the MVP chant. He may not be MVP of the league, but he is MVP of the Raptors, and it is a good thing to let him know. The Raps are playing fairly well, and we owe a good deal of that to Bosh who has been a beast lately. It is an expression of fan appreciation for putting a good effort and winning games.
Bosh = Raptors MVP.
The MVP chant is fine – you just have to know what it means.
I think he’ll finish top 3-4 in MVP votes when it is all said and done.
Would love that.
IMO quick MVP to date:
LeBron
Durant
Gasol
Howard
Williams (Utah)
Raps have 12th best record in NBA to date. Middle of the pack team needs a player playing on a completely different level to garner MVP.
I’m assuming you misspelled Kobe. It’s not G-A-S-O-L.
And I’d put Bosh ahead of Williams, Howard and Durant. Oklahoma City is actually only a couple of games ahead of the Raptors in the standings, and owe their success to Russell Westbrook almost as much as to Durant. Howard’s actually having a down year from the previous season, and isn’t as productive as Bosh is. Utah is having a very good season, and Williams is mostly definitely one of the main guys responsible for it, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who would say he’s having a better season than Bosh.
Toronto was not expected, by most, to even win 40 games, and they now have an outside shot at 50, and have the fifth seed in the East, right now.
Durants #’s and efficiency surpass Bosh and he plays on a better team in a tougher conference. CB4 also has some talented help.
Howard is DPOY. Again. Though his offensive #’s have dipped his defense is extraordinary. It affects games more dramatically than Boshes offense.
Gasol is the Lakers best player this year. I’m not sure what information can be used to prove otherwise.
Williams: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12833/deron-williams-and-the-jazz-know-what-theyre-doing
I’d rate Bosh with Nowitsky. Both are having comparable seasons and play similar roles on their respective teams. Raptors are on pace for 45 wins (.549 winning percentage) . Dallas is on pace for 50 with .615 percentage.
Been trying but i can’t find an MVP who has played for a team with less than 55 wins.
I don’t think you’re coming out of left field, or anything. I just thing that Bosh is playing better than those players.
I don’t think you can say that Gasol is having a better season than Bosh, let alone Kobe. He’s missed 17 games so far and the Lakers are 11-4 in those games. Not as good as their record with him, but he’s obviously not carrying the team.
Because neither Howard nor the Magic are playing up to expectation this season, I wouldn’t put him ahead of Bosh.
Durant, I will heartily agree is having a season worthy of MVP consideration, but their record is not much better than the Raptors and I’d say he has a better supporting cast.
And the thing about the article about the Jazz is that it talks about how they are a great TEAM. I’m a huge fan of Williams and have been since his college days, but subjectively watching and looking at the stats, there’s no way I would put him ahead of Bosh.
Now, all that said, I don’t think ANYONE of those players, including Bosh will or should win the MVP. LeBron should do that.
Agreed. LeBron is truly outrageous.
Chris Bosh is not a superstar. Yeah he’s a good player that is efficient and can be relied upon to win some games against the NBA’s worst teams but what happens against a top contender? Saying he dominates them would be flat out lying. The truth is, he always struggles, and this years playoffs will be no different. Mental toughness must be the focal point come April and I don’t know if Bosh is the guy to get the job done.
Very easy to dominate and embarrass Sacremento and Indiana. Ehhhhhhh not so much against Atlanta or Orlando in the first round. I predict a Raptors loss in 5 games against our first opponent.
I understand underrating your own players. But at this point he is arguably a top 5 player in the NBA, and the rest of the world is taking notice:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/9/1302737/how-good-is-kevin-durant
The secret is out:) Of course, it is possible that the rest of the league does not have the impeccable basketball acumen that you do..
“Saying he dominates them would be flat out lying. The truth is, he always struggles, and this years playoffs will be no different.”
Actually, that’s flat out lying. While Bosh doesn’t dominate in every game against top teams, he’s had some good to great games against some of them this season.
- 35 & 16 against Orlando
- 26 & 12 against Dallas
- 32 & 10 against San Antonio
- 32 & 17 against Utah
- 20 & 13 against Boston (9/13 field goals)
- 25 & 9 against Boston (11/15 field goals)
- 22 & 15 against San Antonio
- 31 & 13 against Boston
- 23 & 13 against Dallas
- 21 & 10 against Cleveland
Bosh is actually averaging 25.3 ppg and 11.7 rpg on .644 shooting in 3 games against Boston this season, the team he had been criticized so much in the past for not playing well against.
He’s averaging 21 ppg and 13 rpg against Cleveland this season and 23.8 ppg and 9.8 rpg against Orlando.
So if how he’s done against some of the top teams is indicative of how he’ll do in the playoffs, I think we can be quite optimistic.
Before you start making bold predictions, make sure you have your facts straight first.
Completely off topic, but did anyone see Al Harrington grab his shirt after making a nice pass with around a minute to go tonight (against the Kings of all teams). Same thing he did against the Raps, and once again, his team lost… Karma is a fickle bitch… Makes me happy.
Karma is a fickle b**tch, or Al Harrington is?
yeah just wait till you see bosh finally turn into a veliceraptor after one of his dunks.. he already has the locked arms … one day man one day.. maybe on another team that guy is giong to turn into a F****** dinosaur. lol..
rawr