It wasn’t the thumping that we were hoping see after the Indiana loss, but it was a win on a back-to-back which are hard to come by and should be accepted without complaint. We’ll take the W, rest for three days and prepare for Sacramento on Sunday. Watching the Nets go up 12 in the second quarter was quite pitiful and the ACC crowd let the Raptors know it, the booing was a tad bit premature for my taste but it got them out of their funk. After playing them even for another quarter or so, the second-unit iced the game in the early fourth. The defensive effort was shoddy at best, especially in transition which I’m inclined to say is becoming a problem. Against a better team we would’ve paid the price, but these are the Nets and you can afford to play bad basketball for half the game and still come out on top.
This game was played at the same level of intensity as Vince Carter’s All-Star Classic, remember those? Both teams were running up and down like it was a lazy Sunday afternoon at the Y, making dangerous passes in transition, getting easy buckets, committing careless turnovers which they didn’t seem to be too upset about and just playing at a generally casual pace. The Nets especially, I think they hate playing the half-court and look to catch the defense napping every chance they get, Harris’ outlets burning us a few times in the first. The Raptors started the game off in a similar fashion as Indiana, going to Bosh against a slower big to watch him launch jumpers. He hit three against Lopez but after that things tightened up for him and he struggled with his J the rest of the night. At times his coordination was totally off and we saw bits of the Bosh we all hate – the one that goes to the rim without an angle, contorts his body to make the angle worse and throws up a prayer that the defense smiles at. That didn’t stop Devlin from reminding us how great of a week Bosh had had, it’s almost like he fears we’ll lose respect for Bosh and needs to hype him up after every bad play. C’mon Matt, we’re not that fickle.
The Raptors ball movement was solid and Jarrett Jack did a good job of putting Devin Harris on his heels by driving right at him and then kicking it out for the swing, he’s been doing that against every good PG he faces. Wright got the start instead of Belinelli, presumably because Triano wanted to retain some energy off the bench, and was the beneficiary of some Jack-initiated open looks and he did good in draining them; suddenly he’s become a decent perimeter shooter when he catches it in rhythm, totally didn’t see that coming from a career 30% 3-point shooter. After hitting three jumpers I could actually live with his ill-advised crossover followed by a left-handed shot-attempt, after all he’s not going to provide 18/7 anytime soon again. Devlin and his Get up, bird! call for Wright better not last. The Raptors were up 10 midway through the first and the Nets were starting to fade, the thing that was keeping them in the game was their offensive rebounding which was happening because of the havoc caused by Harris, CDR and Hayes’ early dribble penetration.
We saw this against Indiana too, our bigs (or anyone for that matter) get into trouble when they’re put in early help situations. They lose rebounding position and the guards don’t rotate (or even are aware that they have to rotate) and we concede easy offensive rebounds. Lopez and Yi got a couple hoops like that and then the Nets managed to execute some good isolation sequences for Lopez who was too much to handle for Bargnani during that stretch. A note on Bargnani’s interior defense, it’s been solid for a while now and tonight was a tough matchup for him, I was glad to see him get back more points than he gave up by taking Lopez out of his comfort zone and out to the perimeter. He also did a commendable job of keeping Lopez on his back for most of the game and it resulted in outrebounding him 5-3, hardly impressive numbers but worth a mention. On a side note, would you pull a Lopez for Bargnani deal?
Humphries’ energy sparked the Nets late in the first and suddenly the lead was sliced to 6. The 28-5 Nets run which caused the paying customers to turn on the team had already started. Humphries was looking like Hump Jordan and step-backed for jumpers on Bosh and Bargnani, the Raptors defense had checked out and the Nets were playing streetball and taking the first available shot which was usually open. Our transition defense, more specifically effort, wasn’t there and they got very easy baskets off of our misses. Triano called a timeout with the Nets up 4 at 9:18 of the second quarter but that didn’t do the trick, we were really hungover. He burned a 20 at 7:31 when we were down 10 but that didn’t work either, it wasn’t even the third quarter yet, could fatigue be kicking our ass early tonight?
The key hoop came at 5:54 of the second, Jarrett Jack putting his head down in transition and going straight to the rim for a hoop. On the next possession he drove and setup a clean three for Bargnani and the Nets lead was down to 7, Kiki Vandeweghe begged the ref for a timeout. More Jack pain followed, he rewarded Wright’s cut with a nice pass and after Chris Bosh finally took it to the rim for two, Jack found Weems on a great inbounds alley-oop leading to a VC-quality dunk. All in all, our man Jack had 5 assists in the final 5:41 of the second quarter. He recognized that the team was in distress and went about fixing it, it’s a sign of leadership and I as a fan appreciate that big time. Down 1 at the half was no problem. Check out Weems acknowledging a fan in the front row after another dunk in the fourth quarter.
Now, the third quarter on back-to-backs was a problem on the road against Indiana and Milwaukee, not so much against the Nets at home. We didn’t come out guns blazing like I had hoped but at least we didn’t lay an egg which is what I’ve come to expect in these situations. After hanging with us for a half, the Nets had started to believe that they could have a shot at sneaking this out. The first half also made me realize that just how god-awful and lazy is Yi Jianlian is. You talk about a guy that hates venturing into the paint, to be fair when he did drive his shots were about as accurate as phdsteve’s predictions about Triano. Reason I mention Yi is that he finally got to nailing some jumpers in the third quarter as Bosh sagged and the Raptors defense failed to pick up its intensity.
Most of the third was just trading baskets, Wright continued his hot outside shooting, Bargnani chipped in with a couple threes for 9 points in the quarter and the pace was similar to the first. Casual. Very little defense. Late getting back leaving yourself vulnerable to the quick-outlet. Meh. Triano did switch Amir Johnson on Kris Humphries which quieted him down, Amir’s length bothered Humphries and he forced a couple turnovers out of him. Johnson and Banks provided a good spark off the bench in the late third, and given the malaise of the Raptors defense, it was enough for Triano to try and see if this was the unit that could finally spark the team and extend the lead.
Well, it did. The unit of Banks, Johnson, Belinelli, Weems and Bosh brought the defensive energy that was missing for the whole game and extended a 3 point lead to 8. Banks played some good turnover-free conservative minutes which shouldn’t be lost in the mix. When Jack came back the Raptors offense went into attack mode and him and Bosh drove right at the retreating Nets defense which set up clean looks on the perimeter. Simple effective basketball gave us a 10 point lead with about 5 to play and that was that. All it took was a stretch of high energy play to put away the Nets.
Good thing it was the Nets, because against any other opponent this could easily turn into an L. This is what concerns me about the team, I’ve always maintained that they’ve got the talent to make the post-season and maybe even push hard in it, but the leadership and discipline to bring it every night isn’t there and I see it far too often for my liking. I’m a little weary of the Kings coming to town, they’ll be kicking off 6 of 7 on the road and will go hard in trying to snatch the early W, the Raptors have to be mentally ready for that. The next five games are all winnable: home to Sacramento, Philadelphia and Memphis, away to NJ and home to Washington. We need to show some thirst in going after these teams and really putting the hammer down.
At the end of the day we came out with a win missing three starters on a back-to-back. Just try to feel good about it and hope that the lethargic play we saw will go away when Reggie Evans comes back and kicks everyone’s ass for slagging off.
Holy crap! I just wrote 1500 words about the Nets. I’m out.
130 Raps
“Holy crap! I just wrote 1500 words about the Nets. I’m out.”
GENIUS!
I was cheering for the Nets … and then in the fourth quarter they tanked like the Raps of old … what happened ..???!!!!!
Great analysis. And I’m with you – a win is a win.
As someone who recently did not give Wright much respect, I’ll happily acknowledge he’s stepped up beautifully in place of our injured starters.
That corner 3 should be open when Jack and Belinelli are driving like they do – and if Wright continues on that 41% clip (I’ll take high 30s) it’ll be huge for our offence. He becomes a bit Parker-like from a few years ago.
Given recent performance, I’d be reluctant to trade him as well.
So the question becomes: Is Wright’s recent hot shooting the norm, or a fluke?
Hoping its the “new” normal. Career 3pt % is 0.304 though – unfortunately I think he slips back.
Yah .. it was a ‘win’ … but it felt more like a ‘near loss’ …!!!!
I’ve got a frequently asked question, please don’t kill yourself okay? all is not misery, though I understand you’d love some company
Get up birrrd… that was the best part!
Hope that sticks around all season
Hey, anyone else think this guy would be a good fit for the raps? He’s had his downs in New Jersey, but really, who hasn’t-its where all stars go to dwindle (devin harris).
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3422
Nets have some pretty good players on the team despite their poor record. Courtney Lee might be a good fit for us, he did well in Orlando…
Yes, why i mention douglas-roberts is because he’s not fitting in with the nets and they’re looking to move him.
I don’t know where is head is at but I can tell you this.
He is from Detroit and before the 2008 draft he told Dumars straight up that he that he didn’t want to play in Detroit so Dumars should not draft him.
Seems kind of odd to me that a guy would not want to be drafted by his home town team.
distractions? plus, detroit’s a shithole. may have also had something to do with them already having prince, a player similar in style to cdr (long, unorthodox, etc.) who would limit his PT?
to be honest, i don’t give 2 shits why he didn’t want to be drafted by detroit (if that’s true), i’d luuuuv him on the raps.
You might want to consider going back to bed for an hour or two. Maybe when you get back up you will be a nicer person.
Just saying.
i doubt it…
lol yertu…. now thats honesty!
sigh. cdr. what could have been. taken one spot ahead of jawai. of course, the way BC & co. were fawning over nate, it wouldn’t have surprised me had they bypassed cdr even if he were available.
Courtney Lee is going to be part of their core. The Nets demanded they get him in the VC trade with Orlando, so I don’t think they’d be quick to let him go.
Three of the Raptors top six players out including two starters in addition to it being the second of a back to back.
The results again did not surprise me but as Arsenalist says, “Just accept it for what it is – a win”
Only 2 games over the next over the next 13 days so hopefully everyone will get some solid rest time.
32 games remaining and now only 5 behind the Hawks and 5.5 behind the Celtics.
2 games in 13 days is crazy! Let’s hope it doesn’t ruin any momentum. I just looked at the schedule for the rest of the season and for what it’s worth, I see about 17-20 wins in those remaining 32.
You never wanna see a guy go down, but man, what could’ve been if Pierce actually had a broken leg? The way the Celts are playing, division title maybe?
Weems should stay in the starting lineup, I think they’d be better off. DeRozan might be a little more comfortable playing with the second unit, he may not have to think so much and he could just play the game.
With three guys out with injuries, one guy really sick, and a couple of guys looking (and playing) tired, I’d say the 2 games in 13 days comes at the perfect time.
Has the trade deadline passed yet?
Just saying.
Man. Jack is tightening his grip on that starting PG job, and looks like he will never let it go. That “one minute, two minutes” quote is pretty awesome.
Still, he needs to stop getting owned by certain speedy PGs.
Sorry for the negative thoughts after a win…but couldnt help projecting the last couple of paras of your piece to whether the C$#tics have a similar mindset when they meet the Raps. Coast, fall behind, stepup the D, spurtspurt, game over.
Apparently the Celtics have been having those types of thoughts about a lot of teams, hence their record the last month.
I tell y’all! It’s the Sheed effect…and they should of kept Posey when they had the chance, but Posey is lazing it up in NOH.
Just want to put this out there. If you look at our current 10 man rotation and what their ages will be for the 2011-2012 seasons, and assuming they are all signed and kept together and have playoff experience from this season and next, and have grown and learned together, coupled with the decline of an aging Cleveland and Boston, I think this Raptor team could really be in a position to compete for the finals in 2 years (obviously a lot can happen between now and then, but play along).
This is their age in 2 years and potential skill level compared to now.
Jack - 28 – same or better
DeRozan - 22 – better
Turk - 32 – worse but maybe wily do-it-all veteran 6th man
Bosh - 27 – better
Bargs - 26 – better
Calderon - 30 – same or better
Bellineli - 25 – better
Amir - 24 – better
Weems – 25 – better (potential starting 3?)
Wright - 27 – same or better (focus on being a defensive stopper and hit the open J)
I think this is a great group to keep together with the possible/hopeful addition of a starting 3 in a couple years. Thoughts?
+1
In my opinion Calderon will be the same (baring serious injuries), Bosh may bring up his assists/game once he has the max contract but the rest of his offensive game may not be as good , his defensive game will not improve. DD will greatly improve . Jack will be the same . I agree about the other players.
Ya I agree, but I’m also talking unquantifiable intangibles that these will get from experience, maturation, gained wisdom and through playing together….you know…how to be more vicious, wily, clutch and cut-throat in closing out opponents and imposing will. I expect Bosh and Jose to get better on these fronts but no measurable increase in stats.
+2
I’ve been saying stay patient and with time I think they’ll be an excellent team. Let’s just hope Bosh stays.
The Raptors rotation is the fourth youngest in the league. If Bosh stays, there’s is definitely reason for optimism….
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/2010/02/does-this-mean-we-can-plan-the-parade-route-again/
We don’t know what Belinelli, Weems, or DDR can really do at this point. They may actually be worse if they fail to improve their biggest weaknesses and teams take advantage of that. It is assumed that player gets better until 30-ish and then decline as their athletic talent ages. Doesn’t always happen that way.
Bosh, Amir, Wright, and Weems will all be free agents before 2011-12 (and DeRozan having a team option). Let’s see if BC will want to keep them all.
When the raps got down by 10, I’m glad no one was near me at that time.
When you go 0 for 10 FGA’s to start the 2nd its not hard to go 12 down. Thankfully they then went 8 for 8 and played some defence to go up by 1. Crazy game.
Waiving POB for a minimum wage vet with 25+ playoff games in his belt, who can be a teacher to the young guys, is what this team should try to land this season. I’m tired of this team settling on their offense and seeing Bosh jack up stupid jumpers which ranks as bad as Humphries is sickening.
There is absolutely no point in waiving POB. Even if you do, you still have to pay his salary and it still counts against the tax. I think the Raptors are close to the tax threshold so adding a minimum salary veteran might actually cost them 5 million or so in real dollars (because they miss out on the redistribution of tax dollars)
Additionally, you’d have to sign a guy who is willing to play as little as POB does because it’s unlikely you’d find a guy who’d be much of an upgrade on what they currently have. POB does an OK at being a backup big who collects DNP-CDs. He’s also pretty cheap.
Ya, those jump shots are maddening, especially since Bosh shoots a horrible 52% from the field (good for 22nd in the league).
Would I trade Bargs for Lopez? I would consider it if Bosh stays, but if he leaves, no way.
I agree :)
I wouldn’t consider it at all. We tried another big man with Bosh (O’Neal) and it didn’t work. Andrea makes Bosh better by pulling a big man away from the basket and gives him room to operate inside. Bosh also makes Andrea better as a big man can’t leave Bosh to double team Andrea. They are one of if not the best big men combinations in the game.
There are different types of big men, though. Jumpshooting PF/Cs like Boozer, Amare, Elton Brand, O’Neal, Bosh, Lamarcus Aldridge, etc are very different from back-to-the basket PF/Cs like Brook, Bynum, Dwight, Al Jeff, etc.
Then you have a third type of big, hustle guys like Noah, Varejao, Amir, etc.
Pairing Bosh and O’Neal just doesn’t make any sense…O’Neal wants to shoot jumpers primarily from the same spots on the floor, but doesn’t score as efficiently. Just too redundant. You want to pair Bosh with either a hustle big like Noah (or the C version of Amir) or a back to the basket big like Bynum.
Consider Portland, for example. Their goal is Lamarcus Aldridge/Oden frontcourt, which would be frankly amazing if they can pull it off.
Basically, LMA is a poor man’s version of last year’s Bosh. Now imagine if you swapped that out for the real thing?
Couldnt agree more..See Charlie Rosens analysis on MSN.
“Because he’s strictly a finesse player, albeit an excellent one, Bosh would benefit by being paired with a strong-armed big man who could corral the tough rebounds.”
Will Reggie fit the bill?
I disagree a lot. A strickly post up bigman would just clog the lane for Bosh. Bargs is actually a very good fit for Bosh because he opens up the paint for Bosh to drive/shoot/whatever. Plus other teams have decide who is gonna guard both Bosh and Bargs, often leaving one or both of them with matchup advantages. If they put a bigger slower guy on either of B/B then each can take them outside and shoot or drive on them. If they put a smaller quicker guy, each can post up down low. Bosh and Bargs are playing great together and compliment each others game very well.
Reggie Evans is a big, strong guy who grabs rebounds but isn’t a post defender. The Raps desperately, and let me emphasize that — desperately — need a player that can guard the rim and stop the ball dead in the post. This business of having a wide open lane for the bad guys to exploit gets you one thing: losses.
The easiest way to score in basketball is to lay the ball in or dunk it. The reason the Lakers, Celtics, and Magic are so hard to score on is they have that huge, beefy guy standing in front of the rim guarding it. Bargnani is big enough but lacks the acumen for that task. He’d be fine as a stretch forward on a team like the Lakers or Magic, but playing with Bosh is a fail right from the start.
If the Raps keep Bosh they should immediately look to deal Bargs for a guy like Andris Biedrins or Joakim Noah. Actually, worse players than that would still be acceptable.
Having read this, the lameness of the rest of your comments becomes obvious “The easiest way to score in basketball is to lay the ball in or dunk it”
Why do people still believe Biedrins is a good defensive player?
Bargs for Noah…Bargs for Biedrins…these are ridiculous ideas. Bargs is light years beyond Noah. Biedrins is solid but not as good as Bargs in terms of dynamic skill-set and growth potential.
Trade CB for Biedrins and Magette maybe throwing in banks or wright to sweeten the deal to Gsw.
Good call on that article, quite interesting: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/rosen-analysis-020310
“Because of his lack of power, Bosh is not a franchise player. But pair him with the likes of Tim Duncan, Luis Scola, Yao Ming, Marc Gasol or Nene, and Bosh would be a championship-caliber player. ”
Pretty good list. I’m not sure why he has Scola on that list, though…unless you want Bosh or Scola to be playing center. Neither of which are wise choices.
Can we add Bargs to that list? In 2012? If world don’t explode?
“They are one of if not the best big men combinations in the game.”
until they have to play defense. both of them are weak in that area, albeit they can (and hopefully will) still improve. they constantly get killed when the opponents’ bigs are offensive-minded ones. and they are a weak rebounding tandem as well. until they can improve on their defense and rebounding, i won’t consider them to be the best, or even one of the best.
I’m finally getting used to having a C that isn’t a “project” anymore…I don’t want to go back and develop another one. PLUS, how often to “great” players on bad teams end up actually being okay players when they have other players to share their stats with? Lopez will likely keep developing and be great, but would he look this good if Harris had ANYONE else to pass to?
Did you just allege that Devin Harris passes the ball?:)
Blasphemy!
Err..no offense, but you guys are massive homers.
Brook is putting up an efficient (.573 TS) 19/9 in his second year on a 4 win team at age 21! I.e., there are no other scoring options and he gets all the defensive attention most nights, yet still is massively efficient.
And he is actually a decent defender too. Scores more points, rebounds better, scores more efficiently despite being the first option on a bad team, is a better defender, is being paid under 3 mil this year and is 3 years younger?
That is a no brainer trade, regardless of what Bosh does. The Nets probably wouldn’t trade Brook for Dwight, not to talk of Bargnani. Unlike Dwight, Brook has tremendous upside and is legitimately skilled, not just an athlete.
If any GM did not make that trade, he should be fired immediately. And if the Nets GM made that trade, he should also be sacked.
I’ve got to agree. Brook looks like he’s going to be a dominant force for years to come. What if they get LeBron?
Devin Harris is a pretty good scoring option though, so i disagree with the “no other scoring options” comment.
Devin is having a terrible year, and is always hurt…if anything, they’d be winning more games if he were gone.
-Nets probably wouldn’t trade Brook for Dwight- and -Unlike Dwight, Brook has tremendous upside and is legitimately skilled-
Ridiculous. I can’t imagine anyone refusing a deal for Dwight Howard. The only players that would be refused for Dwight are Kobe, Lebron and Wade. Dwight has been the best center in the league for 3 years now, and will be for the forceable future. You are putting so much stock in TS% vs every other thing Dwight does (and does better). Or tangibles that can’t quite be put into ’stats’, such as putting opposing teams and players in foul trouble, demanding a constant double team thereby opening your teammates for easy looks etc.
For as good as Lopez’s future looks… he only plays at the rim (much like Dwight)… the difference is Dwight could literally eat him.
Dwight has not been the best center in the league for three years. There is this guy named Yao Ming who is better when healthy (which is admittedly less frequent than one would like..)
Moreover, he has been in the league since 2004, and hasn’t appreciably improved his skill set. He is already 24 years old..how much further will his skills improve? Not very much. He is one knee injury away from being useless on the basketball court.
Doesn’t this scare you? What happens 5 years from now when he has lost his athleticism and still has no post game?
Don’t believe the media hype. If you are a player who relies ENTIRELY on being athletic to be effective, I’d be very hesitant to build a franchise around you.
Dwight is a superior center to Yao. No questions asked. The fact you even mention that is a joke.
-hasn’t appreciably improved his skill set-
there was this guy named Shaq… who never improved his ’skill set’ and was the most dominate center in the league until Dwight Howard (and may I add at the age of 37 is doing resonably well). Sure Dwight’s speed and athleticism won’t last forver…. but his size and strength will make up for that for a number of years.
Lol, it is clear you don’t know what you are talking about. The fact that you can even compare prime Shaq to Howard is ridiculous. If Dwight had half of Shaq’s ball handling, passing or post-moves..
Have you never watched Houston Rockets games? Or even the postseason last year, Rockets against LA? Healthy Yao Ming is way better than Dwight..He is just never healthy.
Dwight Howard leads the NBA in rebounds and blocks per game and is a threat to get 20 pts and 20 boards on any given night. Last time he played Brook Lopez Howard had 20 pts and 22 rebounds! Guess what Lopez got? 11 pts and 5 rebounds. in fact he barely did better against Bargs than he did against Howard.
So you’re saying that Yao Ming is a great centre but that he’s just never healthy. Then you say that you wouldn’t build a team around Dwight Howard because he could potentially get hurt? Are you ok Ripp?
‘can even compare prime Shaq to Howard’
-is there even a closer comparison between any two great players in the league…. Dwight and Shaq are near mirror images.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Michael was the greatest baller ever, but I think at this point in his career Kobe has definitely earned a valid comparison here.
I gotta agree with Ripp. Assuming both players are in their prime (and are 100% healthy), you gotta take Yao over Dwight. Not to directly diss Bargs, but it speaks volumes about Dwight than a player of Bargnani’s defensive mediocrity can effectively shut down Dwight in single coverage. No chance that happens with Yao.
But the key is “when healthy”, which Yao NEVER is. The dude is made out of glass, and always will be. Based on that alone, you have to take Dwight over Yao.
I have to agree with Ripp, here. Howard is great, but Yao is a better player. And Howard simply does not have the skills Shaq had at the same age. Then again, Shaq never had the tenacity or drive that Howard does. Shaq should be ashamed about the fact that he only averaged more than 12.5 rpg 4 times in his career, and never once led the league in that category. With his skills, he should have been averaging 15 rog. Howard, in just 6 seasons, has averaged more than 12.5 rpg 3 times. Shaq got lazy and coasted on his ability to physically dominate other centers. It was a shame. If he had kept himself into shape he would have won more than the single MVP award that he ended up getting.
hahaha brook lopez over dwight. now I’ve heard it all.
And no offense…but everyone is one knee injury from being useless in the NBA.
I was a big fan of Yao as well, just wish he could have been a little more aggressive as a center.
‘Shaq should be ashamed about the fact that he only averaged more than 12.5 rpg 4 times in his career’
Maybe, but don’t you think that his career scoring average and being the primary offensive force on the majority of those teams should grant him a little slack?
If he’s dropping more than 25 pts per game for 10 years of his career I could see his rebounding numbers dipping a little bit.
Shaq got fat and lazy and that’s the only reason he didn’t become as good as he could have. I was a big fan of his in his early days, but slowly got sick of his act. And no, scoring extra doesn’t make up for not rebounding as well as he could have. It’s not as if it’s more difficult to rebound if you’re scoring, especially when most of your shots are within 5 feet of the basket.
I will always remember Shaq for putting off foot (or hand) surgery until the start of training camp because he didn’t want to heal on his own time. He said that since he didn’t get paid during the summer, he shouldn’t have surgery then. Very sad.
I think the “Lopez-for-Dwight” comment had more to do with Lopez’s future and potential. Dwight is essentially a Ben Wallace in his prime. If 6 years of working under Patrick Ewing cannot earn you a simple 8 foot jumper, then it’s hard to imagine Dwight’s offensive game expanding at all as his career progresses. And once he starts losing his hops, it’s hard to imagine Dwight maintaining his current rebounding and shot-blocking pace.
But it’s scary to think of how good Lopez will look after 6 years of NBA experience. He could be the next Tim Duncan.
You may be right but I just don’t see Brook Lopez being Tim Duncan good. Tim Duncan in my opinion is a future HOF and I haven’t seen enough from B Lopez to think that he’ll be that good. I remember when duncan first came out of college. He was pretty dominant even in his rookie year and you could tell then he was definitely going to be a great player for a long time. I think Brook Lopez’s career is going to be more like a Rasheed Wallace type of career (hopefully without the attitude) where he gets a couple of All-Star selections, has a good career but is no where near a HOF career.
Dwight I see as having way more upside. He’s phsically dominant like Lebron is at his position and he does actually have some baby hooks and other post moves but sadly no jumper yet.
Ben Wallace in his prime never once averaged double digits in scoring. And Wallace is 5 inches shorter than Howard. Despite his offensive shortcomings, Howard still has a career scoring average of 17 ppg. Let’ be realistic here, saying Howard is Ben Wallace in his prime is a ridiculous statement that makes you look like you don’t know what you are talking about.
I’m a big fan of Brook Lopez, but he’s not Tim Duncan. I think you need to step back into our workd for a minute, because yours seems to be running out of air.
…and add the fact that Dwight eliminates shots from within 5 feet of the basket, controls the boards on a nightly basis and can get up and down the floor as quickly as guard.
‘can even compare prime Shaq to Howard’
‘-is there even a closer comparison between any two great players in the league…. Dwight and Shaq are near mirror images.’
I can’t compare those two players. While Howard has the physical presence of a Shaq, Shaq was hands down a better offensive player than Howard is or ever will be. Howard’s footwork is no where near Shaq’s and that running hook shot is his only post move! Shaq had an offensive arsenal and while his post game wasn’t as complete as Olajuwn’s for instance, it was pretty damn good. Turn-arounds, hook shots, drop steps on both blocks. Howard can’t do that.
I think Howard and Shaq have the same game. The difference is that Shag is bigger, making him more effective with that style of play.
Wow, you guys are giving Howard much respect.
Don’t you think his offensive game is unrefined and that his main move is getting position on the blocks and slamming home offensive rebounds? He might improve over his career, dont get me wrong, but at this stage I can’t compare the two cause Shaq has proven his skill-set offensively. I’ve yet to see Howard do the things Shaq could do. The only similarities I see is they both have a huge physical presence and they both are lousy ft shooters.
Shaq from the 90s, early 2000s? You want to compare that to current Dwight Howard?
When did you start watching basketball? Man..I’m only 24 but you guys are making me feel like an old timer.
I don’t care what any of you Bargnani haters think. Last night, Bargnani shut down Lopez PERIOD. Lopez needs to get stronger
Well, since he’s only 21, Im pretty sure that’s going to happen. And Lopez is miles ahead of where Bargnani was at the same age. Don’t take too much from one game. Lopez is a stud.
I haven’t watched Lopez play much but Bargnani pretty much shut him down last night. Perhaps Lopez was tired, but I thought he looked slow. Bargnani is a young 24 and is still learning how to play center. I think Bargnani is still only touching his potential, I him keep our guy
Lopez is pretty solid. For a second-year guy his post-game is very refined and he’s already developed a good jump-hook and a strong up-and-under move. He might flatten out like Al Jefferson or could become a dominant center. He’s a fluid 7-footer with good bulk and will only get better.
Last night was an anomaly, the guards in NJ dominate the ball way too much. If I was them I’d focus on playing inside-out with Lopez. I don’t think Bargnani “shut him down”, although he played good positional defense on him and kept him off the glass, it was more NJ not looking for Lopez enough that kept him quiet.
Bargs vs. Lopez…lets see now, whats easier to develop for a 7ft-er?…a good post move or a consistently decent outside jumpshot and occasional dribble-dunk.
Bargs has a better upside to becoming a uniquely skilled centre in the NBA who is a matchup nightmare.
Stop being such a homer, bendit.
It is just ludicrous for you to say that a 21 year old 2nd year C has less upside than a 24 year old who is pretty much the same player he was second half of last year.
Again, by the time you are in your 4th year, if you’ve not reached star status, you’ll almost never reach it.
Could you give the man 1 more year considering the developmental retardation under SM? While my question remains unanswered my only hesitation lies in his demeanour to be mean. He was reared differently (I mean moreso basketball wise and some culturally too) to be what he was when he first came over…an outside shooting/no defense player. They dont allow that in many good Div. 1 schools here. I think some allowance should be made for this (re the 4 yrs.)…he is changing his game.
I don’t understand what rebounding and defense have to do with Smitch. Or his relatively low 3 point percentage. Those are just things that just require a strong work ethic. Putting in the time over the summer and with coaches to improve in areas of weaknesses.
Probably what happened between year 1 and 2 is that he didn’t put time in the summer honing his craft. Like, massive drops in shooting percentages and stuff really has nothing to do with Smitch…probably just NBA coaching scouted out his game and learned how to make him feel uncomfortable.
Basically, at what point do we have to make Bargs be accountable for his actions and performance rather than blaming others? When he is 28?
The onus is always on the player to work hard and focus on improving their weaknesses and expanding their strengths but there are numerous factors in the development of a player and coaching is one of them. The biggest factor for Andrea is the fact he was a 2 / 3 before coming into the NBA…it’s a HUGE transition to move to the 4 / 5 coming into the NBA so his learning curve was always going to be long and slow. Maybe he never develops into a dominate defensive center or a rebounding machine but he is improving in those areas. He is one of the best offensive centers in the league and a nightmare of a mismatch on one side of the floor but you, RIPP, seem to simply ignore any point that doesn’t help your argument (Khandor–lite) OR maybe I should take one out of your book of condescending blurbs (Khandor-XX) and say that “it is clear you don’t know what you are talking about”.
I want a bruiser at the 5 as much as anybody but I’m not dull enough to ignore the fact that if Bosh and Bargnani can get it together to provide average interior D on a consistent basis that they would win out on the front court match-ups in 9 of 10 games. Until then the debate on who is the bigger hole on D will rage on.
Fair points. I’m probably a bit too critical of Bargs. I guess I look at where he is versus what he could have become and am disappointed. If he had a Kobe-level work ethic, he could dominate the NBA on both ends of the floor.
7′1 guys with athleticism, shooting and the ability to put the ball on the floor don’t grow on trees, and I wish he’d just realize this and put in some hard work.
Shaq from the 90s, early 2000s? You want to compare that to current Dwight Howard?
When did you start watching basketball? Man..I’m only 24 but you guys are making me feel like an old timer.
I started watching basketball with my dad in the Lakers-Celtics heyday. I got to see Shaq at LSU and then with the Magic and finally Lakers, Heat, etc.
That’s the main reason I can’t make that comparison. Howard is a great player don’t get me wrong but Shaq took those first three teams to the Finals and probably would have won a ring if he had stayed (The ‘Dream’ ate his food in the Finals). Howard hasn’t had that type of impact. Shaq was the primary option offensively when he won rings. Howard is not there yet in his career. Can’t compare the two in my books.
Dude the Nets are 4-44 how was last night an anomaly!
Yeah – its not even open for debate. Shaq burst upon the league. Shaq was hungrier. A monster. And apparently an asshole.
Shaq was 23 in his first finals appearance and lost. Howard was 23 in his first finals appearance and lost. Although it’s highly highly unlikely Howard matches Shaq in terms of impact he is a dominant defensive presence may still win a few rings…if Howard were to match up with a young Kobe-like player, it would be pretty scary for the rest of the league. Makes ya wonder how good Dwight would be if he had spent some time in college developing his game (although Shaq slacked in this time at LSU).
Err…no offense but you’re giving Brook a little too much credit. I like him but the fact you think the Nets wouldn’t trade Lopez for Dwight Howard is laughable.
hahaha for sure.
Trade Bargs for Lopez. I don’t know, i am not entirely convinced. It moves Bosh away from the Basket and that is not a very good idea.
On the other hand, i feel Calderon and Belinelli are gone. I get the feeling that Josh Howard is coming in.
Caron Butler or Josh Howard?
what gives you this feeling?
What GM is going to give quality away for a PG with injury history that CURRENTLY has an ankle injury? How would he know what he’s getting?
Also, for the raptors, Calderon has been THE KEY to the 2nd unit’s production. He is our perfect backup PG: comes in, keeps the composure and gets great looks for guys who can’t create their own offence (Wright/Amir). I don’t think Colangelo would mess with this…we’ve finally got a system that is working, why bring a major change now?
I wouldn’t trade Calderon for Howard. Not that I think Jose is the better player, but Howard has been nothing but a hassle for Dallas, shoots in bulk and misses extremely big stretches of time every year.
When a winning team has been trying to trade a guy for 2 or 3 years… there may be a reason to stay away from him.
I’m sorry, did you just say you WOULDN’T trade a 24 year old jumpshooting big man who can’t rebound the ball for a 21 year old inside scorer who is a virtual lock to become a 20-10 machine and who also blocks 2 shots a game? You don’t think the downside of having Bosh take a few more jumpshots is worth getting a dominant low post scorer and rebounder?
As for trading for Howard, I don’t really know if it’s worth shaking things up right now unless there is a big advantage for the Raptors, and I don’t know if Howard is worth it. I think someone like Igoudala is worth it. I don’t know if Howard is.
Butler? I don’t know. He’s overweight and playing uninspired ball this year, plus he’s a SF. Where does he play, and I’ve see too many guys like that who never get back to where they were. The guy is 29 years old, so getting back to where he was the previous few seasons (when he still couldn’t stay healthy) is going to be VERY difficult.
Every one seems to be remembering the Howard from a couple of years ago. He’s not that good anymore.
This athletic big man with no skills script is something we’ve seen countless times in the NBA. It always ends the same way.
You can’t be calling Brook Lopez an athletic big man with no skills. You apparently haven’t watched him much.
Err…I’m referring to Dwight, no Lopez.
I’m pretty sure Howard has pretty much carved out his niche as one of the best big men in the NBA. I don’t think it usually ends that way,
Sure Tim, Lopez definately showed that he is dominant last night. Do you think Lopez would average anything close to 20 and 10 playing second fiddle to Bosh?
Last night he played like crap. He’s a lot better than that. Lopez is a dominant low post player with great footwork and a soft touch around the basket. He’s like a healthy Al Jefferson, but with defense. If Bargnani can average 17 playing with Bosh, Lopez can average 20.
Ok TimW, you dislike Bargnani and are as a whole down on the Raps…. Bargs had 4 blocks yesterday (3 on Lopez), and scored 20 on a bad shooting night, while Lopez had 12….. Please explain why so much hate… I guess my problem is I like watching Andrea play, not so much Howard, Bynum, Lopez or a number of other big men….. Anyways Bargs is closer to a Nowitski type player then a “classic” big man….
Huh? I will fully admit that I’ve been very critical of Bargnani, but down on the Raptors as a whole? Are you kidding? I’ve been consistently supportive of them, and one of the more positive people in regards to them all season long. Even in November, when so many fans were panicking, I never wavered from my belief that they would turn things around and we just have to be patient. I think there’s probably quite a few people that can back me up on this (plus, you can read my blog- click on my name).
As for Bargnani, I’ve been quite critical of him from the start because I have a problem with seven footers who can’t rebound for their size. It’s the same reason I couldn’t stand Rik Smits. When you’re that big and that mobile, the only reason you don’t grab your fair share of rebounds is because you’re soft. Rebounding is about effort, pure and simple. You put in the effort, you get rebounds. A 7 footer with the athleticism of Bargnani should not be averaging 6.2 rebounds a game. Chris Paul, who’s a foot shorter, was able to average 5.5 rpg last season.
I was also highly critical of his defense early in the season because it was, horrible. Awful. He was the worst defender on the team, and it was disappointing because, unlike Calderon, it can’t be attributed to simply not having the lateral mobility. I was especially disappointed because I felt he would be, at least, an average defender this season, and he wasn’t even that. He has made massive improvements in that area and I have said so.
Bargnani can be entertaining to watch, but to me, it’s more entertaining to win, and being weak on the boards and on defense isn’t going to help you win, entertaining or not.
Still, I think you misunderstood my comment. I was referring to Brook Lopez when I said he played like crap. Not Bargnani. If you see the post I replied to, it asked me about Brook Lopez.
But Tim, we go as the Big Guy goes. Always remember that. When Bargnani plays with his head out of his ass, with a chip on his shoulder we are a very good team.
Think you are way too hard on his early defence, it was a team issue, still is. It’s getting better, but still far from even average.
Lopez has gotten minutes right from the beginning of his career. All them missed shots by his teammates, shit I could grab a board or two. He is a NBA player, I’ll give you that but I still hold out hope that Bargnani will get even better on both ends of the floor.
THe way Bargnani goes, so goes the Raptors is more an indictment about how maddeningly inconsistent he has been. With Bosh, you know what you’re going to get, but it’s the people around your main guy that often make the difference. And the Raptors have pinned a lot of their hopes on Bargnani, so his production is imperative to their success. That doesn’t excuse the fact he’s a terrible rebounder. And Bargnani’s defensive struggles went WELL beyond the team struggles. Losing track of his man when shots go up, not boxing out, not understanding simple defensive rotations.
As for Lopez, keep in mind that the Nets shoot the 8th least shots per game in the entire league. Yes, they shoot a bad percentage, but they don’t shoot very often, and they also allow their opponents to shoot a very high percentage (48%), so it’s not as if there are a ton more rebounds available. And Lopez gets most of his shots on the defensive end, where there are fewer available, because their opponents usually make their shots. Any way you look at it, Lopez is a very good rebounder.
This team doesn’t have it in them to win a playoff series. I Just can’t see it.
At the press conference I can see Colangelo trying to spin it that we tried our best in the 1st round, we had to deal with injuries to Reggie Evans and once he come back it affected our chemistry. He adds alot of toughness etc etc. Triano is still fairly young in he NBA and will need time to get better. Basically towing the MLSE line. Sell more tickets for next year, promise hope.
We’ve seen good and we’ve seen bad. Don’t let these last three games discourage you. Our injuries are catching up.
We got a lax schedule coming up, boys will get healthy, then lets take care of the rest of season.
Calling it quits with 30 games left? Magic, Hawks and Celtics aren’t exactly burning it up. And of the 3 the only one that I don’t want to see in PO are the Hawks.
Cav’s have Lebron.
OH and Calderon, Bargnani, Jack, are bench players or 6-7th options on a contender. Yet in Toronto they are starter material.
Hrm. Jack I see as a young Derek Fisher type of guy. He can start in certain systems (e.g. young Fish in LA), but would be a bit of a flop elsewhere due to his tweener game (Fish in Golden State or Utah.)
I can’t imagine NJ would pass up a Howard for Lopez trade. Dwight just has a bigger impact on the game. Apart from the boards and the blocked shots, he alters a ton more. Lopez is definitely more gifted offensively but Howard is going to score about as much if not more just through sheer force.
Bargs for Lopez? My brain says “of course, are you stupid?” The homer in me still thinks Bargs can get so much better and I want to see it happen in a Raps uniform. What did Grange say in that interview with Scott Carefoot that was posted on the Score? Something about Bargs being like the slowest aging fine wine ever. Part of me will never accept him if he can’t average at least 8 boards a game.
Something to think about …..if Lopez is so good why is he on a team that is going to set an all time loss record.
“C’mon Matt, we’re not that fickle.”
No, I think some of us are.
Caron Butler would be great with the raptors because he already knows how to take a back to seat to other scorers(Gilbert A. And Antwan Jamison) It wouldnt make much sense tho unless we got rid of Hedo tho. What about Hedo coming off the bench when he gets back, if Manu Ginobili can do it then Hedo can, It would give Hedo motivation to play hard and it would give us another scorer off the bench. I like Sonny starting at the 3 and I think he and DD’s athleticism could cause ppl problems if they started together, not much shooting tho so Idk…….The only way Reggie Evan can live up to the hype is by coming in his first game and punching someone in the face, we’re making him out to be Dennis Rodman, I just dont know if he’s that serious.
Hedo complains about minutes and touches. I couldn’t see him being happy coming off the bench.
Just because he come of the bench doesn’t mean he’ll get any less minutes….We just need to start games better.
If Sonny’s starting at 3, where would we put Butler?
If we get Butler then Weems would go to the bench. I donly like Weems starting with the team we have now.
Hedo is a starter, not a scorer.Caron Butler doesn’t, nor would he enjoy taking a back seat. You like Sonny starting at the three…uh-huh. Agreed Re: Evans, funny line, i’d also take rip off someone balls and eat them with some fava beans
If Lopez is so good, why the nets have won just 4 games so far?
Because he is not Lebron.
+1. Basketball is a team game..there is so only so much even a Lebron can do to carry scrubs.
You know what’s crazy? In 2007, Lebron carried Drew Gooden, Boobie Gibson, Big Z, Sasha Pavlovic and an ensemble cast of garbage, including Scott Pollard, Larry Hughes and Damon Jones TO THE NBA FINALS.
Admittedly, this says way more about LBJ than it does Brook Lopez, but LeBron has been carrying scrubs his whole career.
The dude is amazing. I think we take for granted what we are seeing with him on a night-to-night basis just because he’s so consistently unbelievable. It’s like if one day your dog started talking to you, but after 5 years you get used to it and consider conversations with your pet part of a regular unremarkable routine.
Honestly. It’s redic. LeBron is a once in a lifetime talent (beyond once in a generation… he’s remarkable in any generation).
About Wright, he was a decent shooter in college, must have found what he lost.
(As a junior, Wright ranked fourth in the Big 12 in scoring, with 17.8 points per game, and led the league in three-point completion percentage (.447))
Just amazing that he finds it in his contract year:P
Though maybe it was a confidence issue.
Btw, I posted this in the forums earlier:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Antoine-Wright-125/
His draft express profile says his best case is Ray Allen, lol.
I think you could have ended it off after the 9 words, “take it for what it is – a win.”
That’s all that needed to be said.