That’s how you play basketball. That’s how you bounce back from getting your salad tossed the last time around. That’s how your two best players mesh together and carry this team with Jose and Hedo out. It was electric, it was intense, it was exciting and it was gritty, it was the type of game you wish you spent your lunch money on to go.
We can be happy with the 5th win in a row, it’s actually at a level where it doesn’t matter who we beat to get here, we won games we should have, plain and simple. Last night against the Bobcats was no cake-walk, they were motivated to get out of their recent funk, and with the taste of that beating they laid down the last time, they hit the ground running from the tip. Nazr Mohammed was like Olajuwon in the post, Jackson/Wallace/Felton all got into the paint at will and finished at the rim. It’s no surprise that they shot 73.3% from the field. Everything to start was in the paint, then when the Raptors collapsed to help at the rim, the Bobcats kicked out for open jumpers that they nailed (shot chart).
Had it not been for the copious amount of turnovers, the Bobcats may have put this bad boy away early. They committed 9 sloppy ones in the 1st quarter that paced 17 fast break points (13 were off of turnovers) for the Raptors – the Raps ran back every Bobcat turnover down their throats. It was the classic case of taking what was available. We couldn’t stop them from scoring, but we made them pay for not protecting the ball. DeMar was a beast early. He attacked the rim, slashed to the rim, took aggressive cuts, and made himself available. 8pts in the first, all in rhythm, and all in the natural flow of the offense. It’s all about being complimentary with this team. If you can get yours without disrupting Bosh and Bargnani on offense, you’re a keeper.
I don’t know about y’all, but Weems was killing me in the first half. He took too many jumpers (2-7 from the field) and wasn’t attacking the rim. I lost a slice of pizza because I was cursing him out after his 4th bad one. I don’t mind folks taking J’s, but when they come at the expense of Bosh or Bargnani shooting the rock, it irks me something fierce. At least when Belinelli was missing his shots, he was getting to the line, and being a spark-plug off the bench. I would have personally threw Weems under the bus, but I got death threats last time I did Roll-Call, so I’ll leave it to the experts.
Why didn’t DeMar get much burn after the 1st quarter given how well he was playing? He left a bit to be desired defensively, but so did the rest of the Raptors. 11mins in the 1st quarter, and 9mins for the rest of the game. It was almost like Triano forgot about him, he didn’t even do anything to warrant it, unless I missed that, anyone? It didn’t come back to haunt the Raptors, however, the kid is playing well, so why give his minutes to Wright in the 4th?
The play of Bosh and Bargnani deserves some ink since it was the best I’ve seen to date. Bosh lived inside 10 feet, and Bargnani did most of his damage outside of it. There was some overlap where Bargnani would take his man off the dribble, or post-up on a mismatch, but you could almost see where one would pick up where the other left off. It didn’t even hurt that Andrea only grabbed 4 rebounds because of the clutch shooting down the stretch. On three occasions, Bosh drew the double-team, and kicked out to Andrea for an open shot. Their play was so good, it left us (I assume I speak for everyone here) all asking why this doesn’t happen more? Forget trying to get Turkoglu integrated, spend more time trying to recreate the chemistry from last night.
I’m still pissed I wasn’t at the ACC for this one. The Bobcats shot the crap out of the ball, but the Raptors won this by protecting the ball, big post play that led to second chance points and open shots on the perimeter, getting to the foul line and hitting free throws. This was the most impressive win of this stretch because of how hard the Raptors were tested from start to finish. The Bobcats took a 1 point lead with 1:43 to go in the game, but the Raptors buckled down. They forced a miss on a Jackson jumper, then Jack steals the ball from Felton on the next possession. Defensive stops down the stretch won this game, when’s the last time we have ever said that?
Quick Thoughts:
- While the bench provided a spark, they were brutal from the field shooting a combined 7-27 (27pts 13rebs 8ast)
- Turkoglu dished out 5 dimes in the first half before shutting it down in the 2nd with a knee contusion
- Calderon is clearly reading RR, he was sporting a fitted suit last night, looked good
- Glad to see O’Bryant got to the game on time
- Can’t stop gushing about the complimentary play of Bosh/Bargnani, Triano needs to bottle that, analyze it and duplicate it for the rest of the year
- Amir with a second game weak game in a row, hopefully it’s all that Christmas food he’s been putting down
- I’d make that trade from Steve’s podcast yesterday (Caldeorn for Farmar, Morrison and a 1st rounder)
On behalf of us all here at RR, I wish each and everyone one of you a happy new year. The TTC is free till 4am so be safe and enjoy your night. Go Raptors (Free Amir).
99 Raps
Raps Fan great review today!! I wasn’t crazy about your roll call but I was at the game yesterday and saw it pretty much the same way you did so you obviously did not miss much. Only real comments I would make stronger is that Demar or Belinelli deserved more of Wrights minutes. Wright is still a bum in my book and every time Triano puts him out there scares the crap out of me because he’s so useless. He saved himself some disgrace by diving for the loose ball at the end and calling a quick timeout so we know he must have some smarts in that dumb ass head of his. I still hate the guy and his defense in my opinion is actually worse than Belinelli’s by a wide margin.
Great to see us win the games we were supposed to win during this 5 game stretch.
Now the real fun begins. We’ll really see how much we’ve improved with these next 3 games. I’d be satisfied with 1-2. Just hoping we don’t go on a 3 game loosing streak.
Is there anyway Calderon gets back in the starting line-up? I say hell no. Let him come off the bench. We are clearly playing better with JJ as the starting PG.
If Bargs could play like this consistently, even with the lack of rebounding, I’d be very happy.
I agree with you, it makes no sense for Wright to be getting Demar’s minutes.
noooooooooooooooooo trade to LA … we have to keep calderon till he wants out … he goes to LA and we beat ourselves for a few years … we dont need a 1st rounder from LA .. n we deffenetly dont need morrison …. i belive we should play calderon / jack as two … but not a combo gaurd /… we should have hedo bring the ball front court … more like how kobe does it … and have calderon or jack to hit that corner 3 …correct me if im wrong .. simple play .. hedo bring the ball … amir johnson ( reggie when hes good ) and bosh inside … bargnani to step out for a possible 3 … and calderon for corner ..
we have seen it a few times and assists from hedo to jack is sooo clean n open that makes it hard to miss … we shud see more of that …
1. the trade is primarily to rid the raps of jose’s soon-to-be (if not already) onerous contract. morrison’s is expiring, farmar has some value, and it never hurts to stockpile picks (take this past draft, for example…wouldn’t it have been nice to have a late first-round pick to snag a guy like blair)?.
2. i don’t think either jose or jack has the chops to handle 2-guard duties on a regular basis. the scenario you mention (open corner 3’s) is good in theory, but for some reason, jose avoids that area like the plague, and jack hasn’t shown himself to be a consistent threat from deep (though his shot seems to be improving – still, he seems a little TJ-ish with his jumper).
3. they have started giving turk more on-court ball-handling responsibilities; it’s been getting better, a work in progress, though i’m skeptical whether hedo being the primary ball-handler for extended minutes would work. it’d be nice to see more PnR/PnP action with him & either bosh or bargs (or both). at the moment, with jose out, they don’t really have knock-down shooter that will get ‘forgotten’ on the wing or in the corner (i.e. when doubles go to bosh on the block, or help comes on a drive), and that’s an absolute must in order for hedo to be effective with the ball – he needs that kick-out option, and other than bargs (who’s actually shot pretty piss-poor from deep the last month), they don’t have that guy.
the whole jack/calderon playing together is overblown imo.
we have 48 minutes to chop up. if they are each playing 30 that is tons. having them on the floor together for 12 minutes is just fine as long as it not the last 2 minutes of the first half or last 4 minutes of the game.
let matchups and the hot hand dictate who gets that last 4 minutes.
it also would not hurt to turn that 30 minutes each into 28 each and take the time together down to 8. at that point it is a nice change of pace that will likely be effective.
The question is.
Do the Raps act now or go with the current roster at least until sometime next summer?
At that time it will become known what Bosh will do and how the young guys are hopefully further developing. While thirty some games is some indication of the Young Guns potential I would suggest waiting until the season is over. I think a full season will provide a more accurate assessment of their potential with the Raptors.
So I would suggest.
1. See what happens with Bosh
2. Based upon what happens with Bosh and the development and expected potential of the Young Guns at the end of this season the Raptors will be in a lot better place knowledge wise to make any roster moves that could help the team in 2010-11 and beyond.
I say stay put until after it is known what Bosh will be doing going forward into 2010-11.
However that doesn’t mean that I think that the Raptors shouldn’t look to move some of the lesser used players before the summer if it is deemed to be to their benefit.
The only exception to the above would be if BC could arrange a trade for Bosh, assuming BC is even open to the idea, before the trade deadline that would benefit the Raptors going forward.
Since Bosh might not be with the Raptors after this season if BC could work a trade that would be favorable to the Raptors going forward on the court and salary cap wise I say go for it and don’t wait until Bosh has left and nothing is received for him other than salary cap.
It’s true. The Bobcats had serious intentions of this being a statement game, to prove to themselves that the last time against us wasn’t a fluke-shellacking, as well as getting their own selves back on track. They really, REALLY wanted this one. Which made it a great game to watch and to win.
I don’t want to harp more than what’s been justifiably said already about Weems and his insistent attempts at jumpers, but … he’s starting to remind me of Wright, pre-benched. Except Weems shoots from a bit closer usually, but with the same kind of results. He shoots better when he shoots less, for some reason.
Belinelli was a wild man out there. Don’t know if it’ll always work out for him the way it did last night, but he deserves some love for being a ‘spark-plug’ (as you said, Raps Fan) and carrying the team for a few stretches. His contribution to the win was clear to see. Very good hands, defensively a few times, as well.
Great to see Bosh and Bargs workin’ it they way they did. I’d love to hear that they’re spending 20 minutes or so of every practice tethered by a twelve-foot rope, passing it back and forth to each other to get them REALLY in sync. (And I know that might be a bit silly, but you get my drift. If those two locked in playing tight, they could be legendary.)
And how sweet was that pass from Bosh to Bargs for that three at the end … and how clutch is Bargnani, like really? A beautiful thing to see.
Thank you Raps, for winning that one against the Bobcats. I, for one, needed it bad. Go Raps!
This comment is exactly the sort of thing that goes through my head every time people discuss trading Bosh. Imagine how good this team could be as they start to get their chemistry together!
Bosh probably sees it too.
Let’s not rush into a trade. Let’s make the most of what we have.
They could be great together and actually be what Colangelo envisioned. It takes proper coaching and a team that understands who the two best players are and how critical it is to keep both of them going. It also takes Bosh understanding he cannot do it alone and that his game will be even better if he pairs up with Bargs better.
I am all for keeping Bosh as long as it doesn’t take breaking the bank to do it.
Maybe Hedo could offer to give up about $2 – 3 million a year, through a contract redo to make that money available for the signing of Bosh. LOL
I couldn’t agree more. Bosh and Bargnani are two of the most talented big men in the game. Perhaps Bosh trusting Andrea to take that key shot last night is a sign of things to come. They both need to be heavily involved in the offense for this team to reach it’s full potential
After a low energy first half it seemed to me that the Raptors players across the board picked up their intensity and effort in the second half
This is exactly the reason I’ll take Bargs over Joakim Noah every day of the week. Please no more of this crap that Noah is a better all around player and more valuable then Bargnani.
Just to emphasize the point (or my ignorance), I also think he brings way more to the table then Andrew Bynum who is injury prone to date and is earning 4.5 million more per season……
When the Lakers extended Bynum’s contract and gave him I believe the max or close to it they acted like a kid who eyes lit up when he saw that big softy in a cone at the ice cream stand in the amusement park and grossly overpaid for it.
Noah is no where near worth as much as Bargnani nor anywhere near as talented. He is another version of Anderson Varajao.. a very good energy servicable big man who hustles. Bargs is way way more so those comparisons or talk of getting Noah for Bargs need to stop because they’re just dumb.
Meanwhile while I love Bargs game and am sure it will get better and better, I also think Andrew Bynum is a star in the making. I like him better than Howard for a traditional low post center and if he can stay healthy he will be a great one. He’s much more versatile on offence than Howard will ever be. That said Howard is better all around today primarily because of his defensive presence, and offensive hard work, and let’s not forget the refs are his best friends…something Bargs has earned by now too.
Noah is a great rebounder and shot blocker. I think he’d be a valuable asset to almost every team in the league.
But yah, i <3 Bargnani lol
Noah and Bargnani are different players, both on the opposite end of the spectrum:
Noah is a defensive rebounder who gets his points off of garbage put backs
Bargnani is an offensive talent who can hit the long ball and sore in the post
It all comes down to who else is on the team, and not a matter of who is the better player.
Then why do so many seem to relish the idea that they’d take Noah for Bargs in a heartbeat…..
Sorry Bargs is a better player, no ifs ands or buts….
If you think Bargnani’s offensive advantage is great enough to offset his extreme disadvantage on defense and rebounding, you’re really reaching.
Actually I think you are really reaching to say extreme disadvantage referring to Bargs defense. I think his defence is good and improving. Have you looked at how well Chicago is doing lately with some pretty good talent on that team. For you to even compare Noah to Bargs is really reaching. Noah is not even close to the talent of Bargs.
I am reading this amused, to HOW IN THE WORLD THEY ARE COMPARED WITH EACH OTHER? I mean these two players are in a different league talent wise, replace Noah and Bargs today, and this team will be one of the worst teams in the east, simply because we have no other offensive presence. When you replace an offensive player with a defensive player, you make it harder for the other players on the team to do much. Bosh can’t do anything without Bargs, and Bargs can’t do anything without Bosh. Look at our current starting five, other than Bosh and Bargs, no other player can do much if not open. Jack… DD… and even Turk… no please stop this nonsense.
Put Bargs on Chicago and they improve…. Put Noah here and we regress….. Pretty simple.
the only reason this is even discussed is because Noah is making the most of his ablity’s which happens to be where Toronto is lacking where as the preception is that Andra has more talent but in the past has lacked the intensity and consistincy. but Andrea has a higher ceiling and more expectations due fairly or unfairly where he was picked. If Andrea was a better rebounder not in a million years.
not really sure what you’re trying to say..sorry. a couple of typos and I’m not sure I read you correctly.
What I was trying to say is that right now Noah brings what the raptors lack, rebounding and hustle. Andrea’s ceiling and talent are greater and is becoming more consistent. Right now it’s debateble but if Andrea pans out it won’t be close.
Gotcha thanks for the explanation. Even though the Raps could use the shot blocking and boards, they need the scoring more now and Bargs has a much better chance of getting better at defense and rebounding than Noah has of becoming a scoring threat from anywhere other than garbage land. Also no way Bosh could operate with Noah clogging the paint.
They need the defense more, when they play d they are tough to beat, thats why Andrea could help out with the rebounding, although his d is getting better. But you are right about Andrea can get better at defense than Noah will at offense.
‘….and let’s not forget the refs are his best friends…something Bargs has earned by now too.’
Really? How so?
How so?? Why not I ask you. First of all the refereeing in this league is crap at best, then they give guys like Howard and LeBron every stinking call even the ones that are not close. Second if you have to be a veteran to earn respect of the refs even though it’s bs, Bargs has paid his dues. He’s not a rook and his stats should get him more respect.
Howard does pick up alot of cheapies to be fair though. I’ve seen alot of games where he has picked up about two or three bad calls. He is like Shaq at times where he is hard to officiate. Kobe is the worst for phantom calls that I have personally seen.
Yeah basically the refs in this league are pretty freakin awful, and worse than that they’re inconsistent which is what pisses me off the most.
Anyway about to have dinner with wifey and need to be nice so maybe I’ll get lucky so sianarra for now and Happy New Year!!!
I know this is just nit-picking and I’m gonna get a lot of flak for it, but “complimentary” and “complementary” are different words. One makes people blush and the other means working well together. I’ll get off my high horse now.
Thank you for that. seriously
I don’t get why so many have so little respect for Jose.
Farmar (weak), Morrison (exp contract… still weak), LA first rounder (weak). Just a crap deal all around.
I think last night was another example of how our defensive issue are NOT EXCLUSIVELY DUE TO JOSE (or the PG position). How people turn their backs to this… because they want to believe (and I don’t know why) that Jose is such a bad defender.
How are we not better of with 2 good pgs, and more talent… than 1 good pg and less talent. Really its absolutely ridiculous.
I seriously wish people would stop coming up with Jose deals because they get worse and worse as they go along. How thankful I am that no one around here runs this organization because it would just fall to pieces. (Although it would actually teach them a lesson)
it comes down to a simple matter of priorities, no? sure, farmar ain’t much, and morrison is a throw-in, and the pick wouldn’t be anything ’special’ (though you never know).
but the facts are simple: jose isn’t a good defender. he’s overrated offensively. he’s slipping into ‘injury-prone’ territory (not quite there yet, but a couple more trips to DNP land, and you have to start to wonder – plus, it all seems to be leg-related (groin, hammie, now the hip…who is they guy, my dad?) & his contract is both long & expensive.
it comes down to whether you feel his D isn’t THAT bad, whether his injuries aren’t THAT frequent (or limiting), and whether his offensive production is THAT valuable…and whether you feel that in 2 or 3 years, paying a 30-yr old (and declining) calderon almost $10M/season to play 20 mpg (missing 15-20 games)…as a back-up…is money well spent. ’cause if you wait too long, there will be ZERO market for him until he becomes an expiring.
i’m not saying i’d necessarily pull the trigger on this deal, but considering they haven’t completely fallen apart with banks playing 15 mpg(!?!?!?!?!), and considering they have other ball-handlers on the roster (belli & hedo), getting a ‘nothing’ like farmar to play banks’ minutes (and there’s no debating that farmar is LIGHTYEARS ahead of banks in terms of actual ability), while gaining a pick, an expiring contract, and ridding themselves of jose’s contract? they’d have to think about it, no?
“… who is this guy, my dad?” Lol. made me laugh.
Do you realize that Jose Calderon is getting paid more than Mike bibby, Rajon Rondo,Jameer Nelson and Derek fisher just to name a few.We are not against Jose he is a good player, but he is overpaid.
Jose Calderon : $8,219,009
Rajon Rondo : $2,094,923
Kirk Hinrich : $9,500,000
Mo Williams : $8,860,000
Devin Harris : $8,400,000
Chris Duhon : $6,031,800
T.J. Ford : $8,500,000
Luke Ridnour : $6,500,000
Mike Bibby : $6,217,617
Raymond Felton : $5,501,196
Jameer Nelson : $8,100,000
Gilbert Arenas : $16,192,080
Monta Ellis : $11,000,000
Baron Davis : $12,100,000
Derek Fisher : $5,048,000
Steve Nash : $13,125,000
Beno Udrih : $6,031,800
Jason Kidd : $8,100,000
Chris Paul : $13,520,500
Tony Parker : $12,600,000
Chauncey Billups : $12,100,000
Antonio Daniels : $6,600,000
Andre Miller : $6,730,800
Deron Williams : $13,520,500
Do you also realize that Calderon makes LESS than Hinrich, Ford and B davis….as well…when you look at $8.2 in comparison to Duhon, Ridnour, Felton, Bibby (who is only great when playing the raps), Udrih and Daniels salary, its not that bad….its all relative in how you wanna perceive things…
And Rondo’s salary skyrockets next year…. I love how people conveniently miss that point…..
And the reason Rondo went for so little was because he was convinced to by the big three. That’s a unique situation that we do not have.
Calderon’s salary isn’t that big of an issue. He’s one of the most efficient scoring weapons in the NBA.
I think in comparing Calderon to the rest of the league (in terms of value per $) he’s right where he should be. Perhaps a bit overpaid due to his nagging injuries, but if he’s healthy, he’s worth the money we’re paying him.
Maybe that’s just my opinion.. but I think a lot of fans would agree
agreed.
i don’t
Calderon isn’t a good fit for the team. The Raps are play better when he’s not in the game. Turk has come alive during Calderon’s absence because he has the ball in his hands more. Calderon’s slow and deliberate way of running the offence also fails to get the most out of the Raps athlete’s: weems, demar, and amir, who’s energy has invigorated the team during Jose’s absence. Furthermore, Calderon’s defence is atrocious. The line up with Calderon and Jack playing the 1-2 combination will struggle always to defend.
The only way I can see the Raptors holding on to their recent winning mojo when Jose is back in the line up, is if they use him in limited minutes off the ball as a spot up shooter.
I’d rather see Marcus Banks defending other pg’s than watch Calderon struggle!
yes i do have little respect for jose! it’s not only the defense which is in question. it is his health, his offense, and his skills as a playmaker. not to mention his big, oversized long contract that we have to get stuck with. i honestly get scared whenever he runs the offence.
as you can see, we are better off when jose is NOT the starting point guard. the team is more confident at running and pushing the ball, which is what the team wants. there is more chemistry.
yeah farmar, morrison, LA first rounder are what you say weak. but come on dude, they are stuck on the bench on a team loaded with all stars!!!
although, i see your point on having 2 good pgs, but why then did we trade TJ for JO which ended up being a bust??? we did trade TJ, but we then had a bunch of crap in salomon and roko.
The best calderon deal was last year, when we could have traded him for steve nash (who was disgruntled with the suns last year).
“oversized long contract that we have to get stuck with”
Or we could have chosen to offer him less that year and who knows what would have happened (maybe good, maybe bad). We gave him what was needed to secure his services at the time, so get over it.
“as you can see, we are better off when jose is NOT the starting point guard”
I don’t know about you, but the team also seems more offensively challenged without Jose. It’s also really good analysis to compare the team’s performance during a 11 game period that only included 2 hard matchups (whereas the previous 22 included 11).
“but come on dude, they are stuck on the bench on a team loaded with all stars!!!”
What are you saying? That Morrison is a good player on a deep team? Pshaw! How about looking back and seeing that he only managed to start 28 games from 2006 to 2009 for the Bobcats? Oh, I forgot, that team was loaded with all-stars too!
“although, i see your point on having 2 good pgs, but why then did we trade TJ for JO which ended up being a bust”
If memory serves correct, it was because 1) T.J. wasn’t able to play well off the bench, and more importantly, 2) the Raptors wanted to get out of their contract with the super risky PG. If you’ve checked, T.J. is still on the list of most untradeable players. You could also say that the Raptors wanted a big to combat Howard, but obviously they knew O’Neal would be a bust (as you imply).
“The best calderon deal was last year, when we could have traded him for steve nash”
And you have good sources for this right? Talked to the Suns GM personally? Gotta love people who spout “we could have had “! Well, there’s a reason why rumors don’t become trades.
Nice rap, raps fan.
What’s the shot at POB about? Did he come late to the last game or something?
He wasn’t on the bench last game in the 1st quarter and showed up during the 1st intermission. Rumoured he was in the tunnel talking to Colangelo, for the most part, I’m just joking around.
I think that trade is awful.
If you are gonna salary dump Jose, do it for a lottery pick + expiring, not for a second rounder, or virtual second rounder, and a backup making 2 million.
in a perfect world, you’re right. but only a team that is well above average defensively as a team could afford to take jose back & intend him to be their starting PG…not to mention a team looking to shore up their lineup in order to be stronger in the playoffs…and they have to have deeeeep pockets.
there is an incredibly tight market for a guy like jose, and while it’d be nice to trade him to NJ for, oh, devin harris & their #1 (or minny for flynn, an expring & their #1…or wash. for foye & their #1…etc. etc. etc.) there’s this little thing called reality that actual GM’s have to deal with. there really aren’t any teams that will end up in the lottery that would be willing to acquire jose, since they’d all be looking to rid themselves of contracts like his to hasten the rebuilding.
time to peel away those jose-coloured glasses & see him as the rest of the league sees him.
I didnt say “For Devin and a #1″ I said if you want to salary dump him, you do it for expirings and picks, you dont take back chaff.
or kevin martin?
Thats a completely different type of trade. I said, “If you want to salary dump Jose, then”
Trading Jose for Kevin Martin is NOT a salary dump.
But it is extremely risky. KM has spent most of his career hurt.
So has Jose.
we don’t need kevin martin. an oft-injured shooting guard. we have DDR and weems.
yeah, the lakers deal is morrison (expiring), a pick, and farmar (and i’d gladly pay him a whopping $2M/yr to backup jack if it means getting rid of jose’s contract). no, it’s not a great deal in terms of getting back superstar quality, but like i said, you have to look at jose’s value as it is perceived across the league, and not as a raptor truther…
The pick is garbage. Its a 29th or 30th pick. There arent a whole lot of good values available at 29th or 30th, which is why I called it a virtual second rounder, its only a pick or two away from being in the actual second round.
Why not pick up an expiring and whatever from a team giving up a useful pick?
because teams with ‘useful’ picks aren’t usually in the market for late-20’s, no-D PG’s with leg issues…who come with lots of years & lots of millions left on their deal.
there are ALWAYS serviceable players available later in the first round & sometimes into the 2nd…you just can’t expect to land an all-star with a pick in that spot, but if a GM’s done his homework, there are guys with value in those spots. plus, teams are ALWAYS looking to acquire later picks, so the pick could be sold or used to facilitate another move. it’s not like the raps have been stockpiling picks of late either…
Late 20s picks are worse than 2nd rounders.
They get guaranteed money!
I agree.
In fact Dumars two years ago traded out of the first round and got two second round picks. Unfortunately for him it looks like neither of those picks will work out. However, Dumars did not get stuck with D.J. White’s guaranteed contract and along with his demotion to the D-league
“jose-coloured glasses” haha nice
As a top 5 passing PG that is hard to get?
Also, in regards to the other comments, I am not saying I would not trade Jose if the right deal came around, for example, I’d do the Kevin Martin trade, but I sure as well wouldnt give him away for a box of chocolates.
Jose has trade value, and value to this team, so if you are moving him, you need to get value, or essentially you are an idiot, giving assets for free. Memphis did that with Pau, how’d that go.
hahaha. yup, that’s just what i’m talking about in my previous comment. why the fuck would the kings – rebuilding at a much faster pace than expected, with evans showing himself to be the real deal, and a future issue at the 2 w/ him & martin – want any part of jose? yes, they need a PG, but by the time they’re ready to truly compete, he’ll be past his prime & only of value as an expiring contract. they already have big $$ tied up in udrih, so while they’re realizing now that they’ll likely have to deal martin, they won’t be looking to take back a big salary, especially not for a one-dimensional, aging PG like jose. if anything, they’d be looking to shed martin for an expiring contract & draft picks, and just hope to get lucky in the draft for a PG.
it’s not necessarily about giving away jose the player, it’s about getting out from under jose’s contract, and then using those resources to either retain your own guys with value, or hunt for guys who fill specific holes.
oh, and martin, despite his shortcomings & his own big contract, is about 10x the player jose is. just saying. oh, and he plays demar’s position, so, i guess the idea would be to stunt DD’s growth even more (shit, he can’t get serious burn competing with wright & sonny fucking weems)? or play DD at 3 (backing up hedo)? just curious…
There is trade talk out there on blog sites, etc, about the Kings being interested in deals involving Martin/Calderon. I didn’t make up the rumor, just said its something that interests me. Yeah. I’d stunt DeMar if I was getting Martin. Or straight up move him.
if those rumours are out there, i’m thinking there’s a little more to it than just those two….i just don’t see the king’s rationale for doing it, unless it nets them a significant expiring contract (and the raps don’t really have any), or they get to dump a nothing with a an even worse contract (udrih). the kings are on a good path right now, they have to be patient, clear cap space, acquire picks / assets, and let evans, thompson, caspi et al develop. i don’t see how adding jose to their roster helps, either now (and they really don’t want to improve NOW anyway…they should be in full tankapoolaza mode & pray for wall) or down the road.
just want to clarify something – i’m not a jose hater. i’ve just become leery of him over the last couple years, and definitely feel he’s better suited to a back-up role, or with a team with a number of above-average defenders that he can hide behind.
I dont hate him either, nor do I hate the idea of trading him. I just dont want to trade him for nothing. I want a good value, if we’re going to pull the trigger.
Further, I dunno if the rumors or true, or what the true perceived value of Jose is around the L, nor do I claim to know. Only the people in GM and Asst. GM roles know whats truly being offered for what.
The Pau trade isn’t as bad as it could have been, thanks to the rise of Marc Gasol. Essentially, Memphis ended up getting two first rounders (Darrell Arthur the 2008 pick so far) from the Lakers, turning Javaris Crittenton into a conditional first rounder from Washington, and not re-signing Kwame so saving cash. And the main piece they got from the Lakers, Marc Gasol, is 24 averaging 15-10 at 3.3 mill per year with two years left on deal. Pau, 29, is getting close to $17 mill with five more years. Now, it’s still a great trade for the Lakers who can afford to be $44 mill over cap and paying tax. But Memphis is now $3 mill under the cap, never mind the tax, even though they’re paying Zach Randolph (which was an odd one, considering the salary dump of Gasol) and buyout of AI, and they’re playing better, even with Arthur out til February. I’d say that’s now a pretty attractive team for the owner to sell, which I assume they’re looking at doing.
Picking up Marc Gasol wasn’t due to the Pau trade. They were terrible and headed to the lottery WITH Pau.
They’d now have Marc AND Pau.
Marc Gasol was a 2nd round pick of the LA Lakers!!!
You can always check things out here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html
My apologies.
Marc’s right were owned by the lakers and were included in the Pau Gasol trade.
And Jarrett Jack got torched by Felton yesterday, put up 6 points, 6 assists and he is a solid #1 the rest of this season???? The issue Triano has when Jose comes back it that with Turk handling the ball more, is that down the stretch deciding on the hot hand between Jack & Jose and always going with all of them as was done when they were healthy.
Call a spade a spade but Jack was mediocre at best yesterday.
But Felton had 4 assits and 6 turnovers. Felton (in the 4th) got most of his points of the switch in the PnR and before that made many tough shots. Still he got to the paint a couple of times but his turnovers and lack of quality assists hurt his team. I say Jack/banks held their ground against Felton/Augustin.
Fine, but the point is Jack was just okay yesterday…. No more no less, and if it was Jose defending Felton, who goes 10 for 12, and has only 6 points and 6 assists we don’t hear the end of it…..
The Raptors need more scoring off of the bench.
The Pistons need a real point guard.
So if Bosh stays and even if DeRozan catches fire on offense before the end of the season then I would suggest the following trade after Bosh commits to staying.
I would suggest Calderon for Ben Gordon.
Gordon is fine with coming off of the bench for the Pistons, so he should have no problem doing it for the Raptors. Besides its who finishes the game, not who starts it.
Or maybe Calderon for some dude that plays even a shred of defense?
Heh.
If the pistons would agree to that (They just signed Gordon this summer) and if Bosh would stay, that would be solid trade. I could live with his contract and defence if he could provide the scoring (especially his 4th quarter scoring).
“…down the stretch deciding on the hot hand between Jack & Jose and always going with all of them as was done when they were healthy.”
Hey, we’re back in 2007-08 again. Replace Jarrett Jack with T.J. Ford – history repeats itself.
Is there even a shred of truth to this Lakers deal? You know what they should do – ask Chris Bosh what he would like to see happen, and do whatever he says. Unless he signs with the Raps this offseason, who cares what they get for any trade??? They’ll end up in rebuild mode again anyways…
I don’t think anyone has ever said that there are rumours about this deal actually happening. Bloggers and commenters (including Bill Simmons and Scott Carefoot)have mentioned it as a deal that could make sense.
I have no idea how this would work out, but is there any way to pry Rubio away from Minny in a deal involving Calderon? Maybe they’d want a veteran PG alongside Flynn as he develops, and I’m sure there could be other pieces in the deal to sweeten it for them. Rubio could become our PG of the future.
I know it’s far fetched, but wouldn’t that be sweet.
They already have Ramon Sessions so I think they would pass on that Jose deal
Getting Rubio would be great – 2 years from now!!! After his contract lets him leave Europe.
I didn’t know this was supposed to be a lottery bound rebuilding year.
I would rather have John Wall than Rubio, but I think that the chances of getting Rubio would be greater.
Really? John Wall is an athletic freak scoring PG who is playing great at college level against players at his age. He is very good but there are a lot like him in college basketball and some of them dissapoint in the NBA, even Rose is struggling right now in Chicago. Rubio is just a special talent, a one in a decade type of PG. He’s playing pro in the second best league in the world since he was 16, 16 YEARS OLD. He won a silver olympic medal at the age of 17, being the starting PG of a team that included Pau and Marc Gasol, Rudy Fernandez, JC Navarro, Garbajosa among others. He is now playing as the starter PG in one of the best teams in Europe at the age of 19.
Last week his team beat the talented Real Madrid of Ettore Messina by 25 and Rubio make 18 points and 7 assist with a Rating of 27.
I’ll take one scout’s line to describe him: He process the game a step ahead of everybody.
That in my opinion is worth much more than just puting the ball in the basket and jumping high, at least in my opinion
Just a couple things here..
I think its debatable whether Euro-League is the 2nd best league in the world if we are considering college ball a ‘league’.
Euroleaguers can have just as much (if not more) trouble getting accostomed to the NBA as a College player (game is significantly different and the lvl of play is much, much higher)
What Rubio will do when he gets here I’m not sure…. but don’t tell me he’ll be a better player because he comes from the Euroleague as opposed to college.
Rubio has looked good in international tournaments. As a prospects he has to be rated very highly. But of course there are never any guarantees.
The Euro-league is better. It is played by men – most of whom have no chance of developing enough to play in the NBA.
US college has more NBA prospects because it is totally populated with boys – many of whom might still develop into NBA prospects, but most don’t. Most don’t even develop into Euro-league players.
“The Euro-league is better. It is played by men – most of whom have no chance of developing enough to play in the NBA”
my point here is this is very debatable.
From every euroleague game I’ve seen I’d say College ball is far, far superior. One of the reason why more NBAers come from College than from Euro.
“One of the reason why more NBAers come from College than from Euro”
Really can’t compare the two since there are different factors involved.
1) It’s so much easier to scout US college games than abroad, and it’s not just because of the distance. Send a scout to a game with two NCAA powerhouses and you have maybe ten young guys you can scout. Compare that with sending a scout to a Euro-league game where most of the team are the type that are too old to be drafted or to be considered a potential star, and where the young studs don’t get much playing time. If you have finite resources, which would you scout?
2) Drafting from college is easy since none of the players are signed to contracts. If they acquire an agent, they’re disqualified from college ball. This gives NBA teams certainty. Drafting from Euro-league often involves getting around the player’s existing contract, and buyouts there are of a totally different level than the $500,000 NBA teams are allowed to use for buyouts. Teams are turned off by the process; players lose incentive to play in the NBA if they have to pay for the buyout themselves.
2) Absolute numbers are never accurate. What I’d like to know is what % of ALL US college and JC players end up as NBAers vs what % of same age group and draft eligibility Euro-league players end up NBAers. When you take out all the non-prospects, and factor in how many more teams there are at the US college level, I bet this comparison would be surprising.
3) What we need is a match between the #1 NCAA team and the #1 Euroleague team. My money is on the Euroleague team.
“What we need is a match between the #1 NCAA team and the #1 Euroleague team. My money is on the Euroleague team.”
There’s no doubt about it. The best team in the Euroleague could play against the wosrt team in the NBA and I’m sure they’ll beat them. Comparing Barcelona’s or Panathinaikos rosters to the Net’s roster, you have more NBA experience in those teams than in the NBA team. The EuroLeague right now has four or five teams that are excellent, full of talented players and able to beat 3 or 4 teams in the NBA, the rest of the teams in the Euroleague don’t have the same amount of money to spend and they’re very weak teams.
“What Rubio will do when he gets here I’m not sure…. but don’t tell me he’ll be a better player because he comes from the Euroleague as opposed to college”.
I didn’t say that. Actually i agree with you about it’s very hard for a player in europe adjusting to the NBA (maybe harder than for a college player) What I meant is that rubio already played with NBA stars like the gasol brothers or Calderon or Fernandez, and he also played against Lebron, carmelo and that talented US team. Until next year, the only level of competiton for Wall is college basketball.
I don’t know what kind of Euroleague games you have watched or what you mean by playing better basketball, but Euroleague is way better than college. Actually, players who were stars in college basketball are role players in mediocre Euroleague teams (Chris Lofton, Marcus Fizer, Taurean Green, Mustafa Shakur, among others). The Euroleague is less spectacular but is better played
Hey Raps fan, great review of the game. Insightful, humourous and right there…your back after that brief foray into hater land with the Roll Call.
“I’d make that trade from Steve’s podcast yesterday (Caldeorn for Farmar, Morrison and a 1st rounder).”
I love the post but I wouldn’t do that trade in a million years.
Unless Jose goes TJ Ford or some GM out there has fallen irrationally in love with him, wait to trade him in the off-season. The Lakers deal only makes sense if Bosh is leaving since getting 5+ mil in cap relief in the form of Morrison doesn’t do much in the off-season. I think BC would be wise to get Jose healthy, hopefully have him thrive off the bench the rest of the season while seeing if Jack is the right fit with Hedo and the rest.
If BC was going to trade Jose, is Philly a fit? Could they get Lou Williams back? I think he’d be great as a 6th man for the Raptors.
Incidentally, assuming that Bosh, Bargs and Hedo aren’t going anywhere (this season, at least), what do the Raptors need? I’m far from loving this team but I think the only hole in the team as constructed is consistent scoring off the bench. I mean, I think the team kind of sucks but you’d have to blow it up to deal with the defensive issue. If you’re tinkering, what do you look for on the trade market?
Why would anybody trade Calderon for cap space?
Starting quality PG are very hard to get.
Because a lot of people would make terrible, terrible NBA GMs?
not for cap space…to get themselves out from under his bad (& soon to be horrible contract) while he still has value & can bring back something positive. wait too long, and he ends up being untradeable, or only tradeable if an equally bad contract is coming back.
and yes, ’starting quality pg’s are hard to find…we know that first-hand.
Jose’s contract is not that bad, and it is not, and will not be, horrible.
Fans have said that every single Raptor, at some point over the last 3 months on this site, has a bad contract. I know we would like to have all these “great value” contracts… but teams don’t. When they do its almost always off of rookie contracts.
Jose, and his contract, are not and will not be, at any point in time, untradeable.