This picture doesn’t speak about the game, but it is bloody awesome.This game went down exactly how I said: the Pistons came out guns blazing from the tip, the Raptors weathered the early storm then put them away. This was what we wanted to see from our boys, facing an injury riddled team who is playing on the second night of a back-to-back, they beat the hell out of them. The Pistons were easy pickings with their top three players out with injury, and Villanueva walking wounded.
You have to hand it to Toronto’s strategy here, winning through attrition. The Pistons came out ugly. Missed shot after missed shot, but their bigs cleaned up the boards. Bosh and Bargnani were totally asleep on the defensive glass. Sure Bosh finished the game with 9 rebounds, but he did next to nothing in the 1st quarter when Wallace/Maxiel/Jerebko grabbed 7 offensive rebounds. Bargnani was no better, but at least he gets a pass for carrying the offensive load early.
I want to pick on Bosh here a bit, he didn’t seem very into this game. He wasn’t active, he didn’t really do anything, sure he got hung out to dry on two defensive rotations in the first half, but he was off. We didn’t get a great night out of him, 12pts/9rebs on 4-5 from the field and 4-4 from the line – in 33min of play, unacceptable. He didn’t take his first shot until the 4:43 mark of the 1st for crying out loud. While the Pistons front court is nowhere near where they used to be, they still have very active guys that can make you pay; and they made the Raptors pay last night. In all fairness though, Triano played him more then he needed too, 33min in this type of game, seriously?
One thing I was very pleased with was how Turkoglu and Jack were both in sync running the offense. They took turns creating off the bounce and got the rest of the team great looks to the tune of 18 assists on the night that led to 42 Raptor points. They ran that pick-n-roll to perfection, with half of the plays ending in a dunk or layup for the Raptors. 12 of the Raptors 35 made field goals were at the rim, with Turkoglu/Jack assisting on 7 of them.
Turkoglu’s playmaking is so important, I don’t even care about his scoring numbers. If he can drop 6-10 assists a game, grab 5-7 rebounds and play some defense, then anything he scores is icing on the cake as far as I’m concerned.
Anyone else pull out there hair when that elite/all-star level *cough sarcasm cough* Detroit front court pulled down offensive rebound after offensive rebound? They had 30 second chance points off of 23 offensive boards. The Pistons grabbed 41% of all available rebounds on the offensive end. That’s insane! To put into perspective how important that was for them last night: their eFG% was 28.4% on the night were they scored 30 points at the rim. Had they not grabbed so many offensive boards, they might not have had more then 40 points for the game, no joke, that’s how bad they were shooting last night.
It was good to see the Raptors drop 94 points on a night where Bosh only contributed 12. Bargnani carried the scoring load, but Jack and Turkoglu accounted for 67 of the Raptors 94 points last night (they scored 25 and assisted on 42). Brilliant, just brilliant.
Also, Free Amir man. The kid needs more playing time. It’s a thing of beauty seeing him active in the paint.
Just wanted to wish all of you Happy Holiday season. From Christmas to Chanukah to Kwanzaa, all we can hope for is that Santa doesn’t take away the defensive intensity he brought us over the last few games. Stay safe and enjoy the break.
62 Raps
I think one of the big things with Bosh is that more and more of the offensive burden has been taken off his shoulders… and it has really helped this team.
Bosh’s stats may have dropped, but this team has played better because of it. More players getting involved, more confidence, more momentum…. likely helped both the offense and defense.
I will say he doesn’t look as intense or enthused during the games… but the team has played better, and thats what counts the most right….?
I agree with that. It’s almost like Bosh is giving up a bit of it to let the team be more involved all around. In the long run, could be a good thing.
I absolutely agree that it is a good thing that some of the offensive burden has been taken off of him, but when his first shot attempt came with 4:43 left in the 1st quarter, it speaks to an unbalanced strategy. he was not as intense/enthused because he wasn’t involved in the offense. there needs to be a happy medium somewhere.
Are you joking about the play of Bosh being unacceptable? He shoots 80% from the floor, 100% from the line, has 9 boards and we win by 30. The Raptors will take that anytime.
he contributed 12 points in 33 minutes of play, that is not up to par for him. all your percentages are nice and fancy until you realize he shot 4-5 from the floor and 4-4 from the line. not so impressive after that.
Admit I did not see the game…but can we all have it both ways? Bosh not taking his requisite # of shots means less taken by others means less involvement (like Bargs parking himself on the 3 pt. line) by the team. This leads to a chorus of “Bosh is padding his stats” calls etc. The point being the team has yet to find its balance and identity (offense and defense) and anything (I mean anything) which remotely contributes to the opponent shooting the percentage the Pistons shot is where we want to be at. As far as I am concerned Bosh should be the main cog adjusting his game depending on the game plan and opponent team of the day….and some nights it will be such…no? Tough to bottle the formula but worth aspiring to. The C**tics played the “perfect” season the year they won…playing it anyway you wanted to. There were nights Garnett was invisible….they won big..and I was jealous-mad.
Agreed, but there needs to be a balance between 12 and 24 points in a game right? Can we all agree on that? That’s all I’m saying.
The thing is, there’s only so many possessions to go around. If Bosh is being by Wallace (still a great interior defender), why not use the possessions more elsewhere? 12 points is GREAT if it’s on 5 shots and the team as a whole is shooting 56%.
To me it’s way more important that the team as a whole is clicking on offense. I don’t think there’s a specific number of points Bosh has to get every night or else he’s a bum. It’s not like he has to prove anything offensively at this point — we know what he’s capable of.
When he is not shooting on offense or crashing the glass (somehow I always think of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX7TSWStfVs
when I use that phrase) he could work on his play making. It wouldn’t hurt him or the Raptors.
It may have been an early vacation break for CB4. He has been working pretty hard grabbing all of those rebounds, taking all those shots and playing defense.
So why should he have to work so hard when the team doesn’t need him to.
There are a number of Lakers blowout games that Kobe only scores 15 – 20.
Those are two different things man and you know it!
Thought I could slip one by you. Darn you are on the ball.
Happy Holiday
lol @ Buddahfan have a good one bro
I agree about the scoring and rebounds. But Bosh is terrible defender.
Let’s not include that in your list.
The last five to six games, Bosh has rarely brought the intensity. Is this where Bosh plateaus in a season and goes downhill from here. Is he repeating his strong starts and limping to the finish.
Time will tell……
Yes Br. I’ve seen the light. Bosh played an unacceptable game. What is the matter with that guy?
You see guys like Durant dropping 38 points a game and I hate how they get all the spotlight, it’s like Chris is very underrated, they never talk about him or the Raps on NBA.com. You guys have to realize that when Bosh doesn’t need to score it’s a good thing. He rarely will need to put up 40 points for us to win the game because we have a good offensive team. I’ll take 12 points for him and win by 30 any day of the week!
Exactly. They won by 30 and people still have to find something to complain about. Might as well be our best player… Sounds like Leaf Nation to me. Come the new year all the haters will eat their words and we’ll finish strong… Calderon looks a little more disposable these days, maybe we can get something for him before the deadline?
Going back to Game 1 vs Cleveland – RR noted Bosh was effective because he was cleaning the glass and getting garbage points. The things that the Raptors need to have to win.
It looked like in the first quarter that Bosh was simply trying to facilitate the offence. He got multiple looks for Derozan, Barg’s and Jack and was efficient in the quarter as he went 4/4 from the line and had a two handed dunk on the p & r with Jack.
When he looks for his shot, it’s astounding how many people complain that he is ’stiffling the offence’ or not ‘moving the ball’ (even though he shoots over 50% from the field) and when he looks for teammates he’s now disinterested? I think even Arsenalist mentioned it last night that he would have liked him to be more aggressive on Wallace.
Why force anything if your teammates are being productive regardless of matchups?
The offensive boards given up in the first were because both him and Barg’s were trying to help on penetration or p & r with Piston’s guards and let’s face it, the Piston’s aren’t scoring unless they are getting to the rim or pounding the boards, which there will be plenty of when you are shooting under 30% like they did last night.
He took 5 shots all night and ended up with 12 and 9. Maxiell, who he was guarding primarily, was 4-12 from the field.
I don’t think he played that poorly last night. It was a good team win all around, against an inferior opponent.
When Bargs and Bosh help on penetration and we give up offensive rebounds isn’t the breakdown that the 2’s and 3’s fail to help the helper by boxing out AB or CBs man? You might be able to get away without doing this if you have Dwight Howard behind you.
The Raps need all 5 players boxing out
I would have been more forgiving if he and Bargs didn’t concede so many offensive rebounds to Detroit.
Bargnani and Turkoglu are most to blame for all those rebounds. They didn’t even put up a fight on the glass at any point in the game.
Bosh on the other hand was usually in the mix anytime he wasn’t rotating over to contest dribble penetration.
The easiest way to find out is the number of offensive rebounds when either Bargnani, Bosh, Turk or Amir were on the floor. From what I saw, Bosh was the main culprit for not boxing out and allowing the Detroit player to grab the offensive rebound.
Another thing is that Bosh rarely goes out to stop dribble penetration. I am not sure you can use that as an excuse.
Let’s be honest. Bosh, Barg and Hedo are terrible defenders. The only reason why Bosh is not criticized so much is because he can rebound.
Bosh is a superior defender to those other two you just mentioned.
Watch the games without the blinders.
I am watching the games and Bosh is abused over and over again on the defensive end. As defender, Bosh is not superior to anybody. He is great in scoring and rebounds (not so lately…) and that’s about it.
Guys can get scored on. It’s the NBA.
Man to man defence, help defence, rotations, switching, whatever you want to look at, Bosh performs these things better, understands his responsibilites and acts accordingly, more than the other 2 you have mentioned.
I’m not saying he doesn’t get scored on, or isn’t a step slow on rotations or helping out in a game, however it happens less than you wold make it seem.
I’m sure if you asked Triano and the coaching staff they would disagree with your claims on his defense.
The reality is we should get used to playing without Bosh.
LOOKS LIKE THE RAPS FOUND THERE STARTING PG!! AND HE PLAYS BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT, WHICH ALLOW TURK TO PLAY HIS COMPLETE GAME INSTEAD HAVING THE BALL IN HIS HAND EARLY IN THE SHOT CLOCK TO MAKE DECISIONS. WIN/WIN
Dude, the Caps Lock key is on the left side of the keyboard. Should be in between Shift and Tab. It will solve this issue you’re having.
Raps win by 30 in the holiday season and the majority of the write up is to complain. It is true though, Bosh held this team from winning by 45. Having 50% more points than your opponent is simply unacceptable, unless that number is 65-75%, the team’s going nowhere.
Also, get your head out of your ass and appreciate the fucking win. It’s a disgrace that complaints are made about a game like last night.
Complain? Give me a break, go back up and re-read the article, I only said Bosh’s performance was subpar, and bosh/bargnanid did a poor job of defending the offensive glass. I praised Jack/Turkoglu and Bargnani for their contributions.
Another great analysis from RapsFan! Totally agree with you on every point. Go Raptors and merry christmas!!!
I say who cares about Bosh’s numbers if we get a big win. My concern is that when a defender gets up into him (ie. Garnett, Wallace), he becomes an absolute non factor. Hammering down a dunk and unleashing a primal scream every now and then doesn’t make you tough. Swinging your elbows into the jawbone of a guy that is basically dry humping you is what makes you tough.
Was he a non-factor in the last matchup?
Yes there was ‘the nutcracker’ incident but he more than held his own against those two crusty bastards. lol
Who else in the league swings their elbows into KG’s or Wallace’s face? You won’t find any names to mention.
Why does it matter no one else does it? Set a precedent. Why be a sheep when you can be a wolf.
Another interesting fact is that in the last two games, Chris Bosh has committed 10 turnovers.
Is he getting tired. Is he tapering off like he did in past few years. Strong starts that go nowhere.
Some of the comments are that because he does “EVERYTHING” that is why he is playing in this way. The funny thing is that when Chris Bosh tries not to be “THE MAN” the team is quite successful.
There’s been lots of comments, including from Triano, that the team does better when Bosh doesn’t have sticky fingers.
If Bosh holds the ball too long before deciding what to do, he is way less effective.
You’re always on this hate on Bosh thing man.
You cannot be faulted for your consistency only lack of any objectivity.
Changing user name unfortunately doesn’t change your range of argument.
Who is changing their usernme? I think that is terrible. People should not do that.
I don’t hate Bosh. Why would I hate our best scorer and rebounder on the team. The only thing that I alluded to was that when we rely less on Chris Bosh, we have better team success. More players are involved, better ball movement and that tires the opposition’s defense. The terrible play of dribble the ball and pass to Chris Bosh should be “ABOLISHED”.
I also want to add that Sonny Weems was a second leading rebounder with 8.
Yes, he had a great game. I should have mentioned that, lol.
I for the life of me can’t figure out what Hammond was thinking when he made that trade with BC.
If those guys stay with Toronto that could turn out to be the most one sided trade in the Raptors favor in their history, if not even more so.
Jonathan Bender for Antonio Davis was pretty 1-sided
Disappointing that the only blogger to throw one of their own players under the bus in the ESPN Daily Dime piece was, of course, from the Raptors. Arse, you are better than that.
Yeah I don’t know who wrote that but man was that harsh on Jose. I don’t understand what created Jose into the scapegoat for this team but they really need to take the hate goggles of.
That was Arsenalist. He’s our best blogger but failed to represent in this case IMO.
Oh well, sorry to disappoint.
Not sure what the love affair with Jose is, just like Jack, he also was a backup. If Jack can handle starting duties (which Jose hasn’t since the time period I mentioned in the blurb), why is there any opposition to starting Jack? Why shouldn’t we trade from our perceived strengths (offense)?
If Jack can consistently play 30-35 minutes a night and provide a better defensive presence, doesn’t it make sense to trade an offensive player since we already have Bargnani and Hedo in the lineup?
If Jack is a better defender (which I don’t think you’ll debate), why should we have redundancy in our starting unit and not even it out instead to have a more balanced team?
Yes, Jose’s had some recurring injuries which has affected his play, but I don’t think that gives him as big of a pass as some give him. I don’t have a particular affinity towards Jack or Calderon, I’m looking at it from the team’s perspective and thinking that we need to improve defensively.
I also believe that Jose tends to dominate the ball a lot more than Jack which is not what this team needs. Chisholm and I discussed this in the podcast. That would be OK if Jose managed to create easy looks for his teammates but that’s not happening either, his drive and kick game has been HUGELY inconsistent and the main advantage I see him having over Jack is a better mid-range game (which he hesitates to use) and a better three point shooter.
This is a good discussion on the topic:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467
Generally, I feel the ball is shared better with Jack and he provides more sturdy defense. That is all.
I’ll admit to liking Jose better than Jarrett. But Jack is proving to be a very capable starter for the Raps and he has a good history of durability.
If things keep going well for Jack – and they probably will. Colangelo has to look at maximizing the value of his assets by entertaining the idea of moving Calderon to upgrade the team.
Jose will have a very high trade value with any team in need of a starting PG. And there are some good teams with tradable assets that would love to get their hands on him.
Of course keeping both PGs should give the Raps one of the best PG combos anywhere. So its hard to see how Colangelo can make a bad choice here.
I just don’t see how trading Jose makes any sense.
1) trade Jose for any position and we may improve at the given position, but then are weakened at PG. Remember last year when we didn’t have a reliable back up for Jose? If anyone thinks Banks can do this reliably you have another thing coming….
2) trade Jose for another PG. Would this even make sense? What PG could you trade for that would be better than Jose? I just don’t see this happening. Maybe an argument could be made for youth… but what team that is in ‘win now mode’ has and is willing to give up a good young PG?
3) multi-player deal… but who else would you be willing to give up that has actual value? If we trade any starters or regulars then all of a sudden there are more major changes being made to this team just as they are apparently starting to find themselves.
When Jose comes back there may need to be decisions made about who starts and who comes off the bench… but trading Jose just doesn’t make sense. Arguing Jose coming off the bench may make sense for numerous reasons. Trading him does not.
This ofcourse doesn’t even begin to touch the chance that Jack gets injured….
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
BC doubles down on keeping Bosh and Washington dumps a long, unwieldy contract for two shorter, less costly and somewhat less unwieldy contracts.
Plus we end up with a PG who is a legitimate starter, is no worse a defender (and could be better if his head was in it) and may be better able to share the floor with Jack b/c of the type of player that he is.
Guess I didn’t link it properly – it was Calderon, Banks and Wright for Arenas and McGee.
When Jack was signed I immediately thought he would surpass Calderon as the starter at some point as he would a definite upgrade in D which we sorely needed. I’m not opposed to him starting….but I don’t see him being able to take on full starter minutes for a long period time with having Banks as his back up. I’d rather have a strength at a key position than give Jose away for bit parts that likely would not yield an upgrade at one of our starting positions (Derozan needs to start)…and also think we are over re-estimating the play of Jack as the key to our recent defensive success. We are playing weaker teams with more rest. I’d like to see Jose back for a bit at full strength before we throw him away at his lowest value in 3 years. Maybe later in the season if we are struggling we move him for cap space (and he likely will play up his value again) but we have a ways to go before that should be discussed.
…and you mention Hedo and Bargs as weaknesses on D but no mention of Bosh? I don’t think you can mention Bargs without mentioning Bosh. Bosh’s one on one defence is the worst of the bigs on this team and causes a fair bit of our issues down low. Bargs gets exposed in help situations but in the last dozen games he’s been the better defender of the two…but I agree your main point stands; at some point Jack may be a necessary upgrade to help shield our weak interior D (just not convinced yet).
Also, my issue with what you said on ESPN is not in what you said but the fact you would say it in a large forum like that…there’s a reason none of the other bloggers fried an individual player on the big stage. It’s counterproductive and makes Raptor fans look a bit short sighted…your reach is expanding and you represent all of us at that level (maybe you don’t believe that) and your words can influence the opinion the fans of other teams fans who can sway personnel decisions their team makes (you may not believe that either). Just my opinion…I’m thankful you provide the forum for us to express it.
If Calderon played in this game pistons would have scored more than 65 points
Does anyone know if the points allowed and FG% against were record bests for the Raptors?
I think they held a team to 56 points a few years back… Maybe in the O’Neill era.
…and the Raps would have scored more than 95.
Love how the Raps played last night but no matter what, unless we win a championship this year (LOL) Bosh is gone next year, for sure. We have a lot of shooters and Nash has publicly said he would love to play his final years for the Raps. And lets be honest here, calderon is an excellent player, but with a need for defense and a surplus of shooters, do we really need him? How many of you do a deal with Bosh going to Dallas (his home town), Josh Howard coming to Toronto (expiring deal) Steve Nash Coming to Toronto, Calderon going to Phoenix. Our first rounder going to Phoenix along with Matt Carroll going to Phoenix. That way we get an all star for bosh, Dallas gets the most dynamic pair of big men in the league and Phoenix gets some younger talent in a transition period in the franchise. I used NBA trade Machine, the salaries match up
raptors get: Josh Howard+Steve Nash and lose Calderon and Bosh
Dallas gets: Chris Bosh and loses Josh Howard and Matt Carroll
Phoenix gets: Jose Calderon, Matt Carroll and a 1st Rounder and loses Steve Nash
Plausible, or ridiculous?
Josh Howard always seems to be hurt. Great talent, but???? Raps can do better!
dallas would most definetly do it, but why would phoenix do that …?
Losing Bosh and gaining Nash is a fairly lateral move (at best) for the Raptors. Then you are giving up a first round pick to trade Calderon’s contract for the expiring J-Ho? Seems like a bad move for Raps.
I don’t think Phoenix makes this move either, their current system is build around Nash, and not clear to me that Calderon can step in and replace him. Would make more sense to give Goran Dragic a shot than Calderon..
The clear winner in this trade would be Dallas…getting Bosh for only J-Ho’s creaky ankles.
Trading a 25 year old All-Star caliber player for a 35 year old with a couple years left at best is not even lateral. It might be a lateral move for a year or so but in the long run it’s a losing proposition.
I don’t even think Phoenix makes that move for the reason you cited. Honestly, I have real trouble figuring out how much other team’s value Calderon. I’d like to think they view him as a Top 7 starting caliber PG but I’m not sure about it. With the PG heavy draft that just was and the one coming up, I think team’s are looking for quickness and creativity at that position rather than conservatism.
Top 7, in what sense?
We should instead ask, for which teams does he provide a clear upgrade over their starting PG (taking offence, defence, contract, and intangibles into account?)
Rather than from the top, better to start from the bottom and say which PGs he is clearly better than. I think he is better than Derrick Fisher, the Warriors PGs (Stephen Curry and CJ Watson), and Mike Bibby.
But I’m not convinced the Lakers, Warriors, or Hawks like him enough to take on his contract (unless they also get to dump an albatross onto the Raps).
This to me is the real challenge. PG rankings just based on offence (e.g., Player Efficiency Rating) might have him highly ranked, but once you take into account defence, the quality of his assists, and his contract, then I’m not sure his contract has positive value.
Just to give an example, the Warriors were only able to dump Steven Jackson’s contract for expiring junk, Raja Bell’s expiring, and VladRad’s 2011 contract. So really a bunch of junk for a pretty good player/contract.
Yet, I think most would agree that Captain Jack is way better than Calderon.
Just one more reason I’m not too optimistic about Calderon’s value. Unless he comes back and strings together 10+ monster games or something :/