The “come on, beat us from the outside, we dare ya” edition.
Banks – 9 minutes of back up duty that amounted to nothing. The Raptors are getting as much out of this guy as they would a fire hydrant in the desert.
Bargnani – things always go well when he attacks the hoop early. Absolutely love to see him drive the lane. It opens up his outside shot and, in my opinion, it gives him confidence. Picked up 3 first half fouls, which put him on the bench, but he came back in to play well on both ends of the floor. He fought for boards today and even though he was exposed on D by Landry, once Bosh was put on him, Bosh was too.
Belinelli – easily outshone tonight by the rest of his benchmates. His lack of production is nailing him to the bench and you have to wonder if the solid play by Weems and Johnson aren’t knocking him down a peg.
Bosh – this is the type of game he should easily post a double double, so one has to question why he didn’t. Triano sat him just 4 minutes into the 3rd quarter as it was evident his head just wasn’t in it. He was doing (and did) well offensively, but the battle on the boards and his rotations were a step below what they should be. Sure, you are playing a team of hustlers, but your length and athleticism should negate that.
Calderon – first of many nights of not having to shower before heading out to For Your Eyes Only. He’s dapped up and ready to go.
DeRozan – the swoon continues. He needs to be reminded that getting fouled and going to the line is a great way to get yourself going. He’s back to looking disconnected with this offense. Of course, had Ariza connected with that elbow, DeMar would have had his first taste of Canadian health care.
Evans – Made plans to join Jose at the club, but the bouncers were too busy laughing at his outfit to let him past. What the heck was with that shirt and jacket combo? Man alive.
Jack – hell of a game. Actually, that deserves a repeat. Hell of a game. He was the catalyst today and showed why he moved into the starters role in Indy. I’m still not sure, even after this game, he has done so here, but 17, 8 and 8 doesn’t even speak to how well he orchestrated this win. Throw in the fact that he was the first to step to Ariza after Trevor attempted to decapitate DeMar and the crowd should have been chanting his name a la Bonner. Concerned about his minutes, though, if Jose is gone for a good spell.
Johnson – showed a little offensive flair today with some nice passes, had a fierce block and brought his hustle game. Also played in control, which will continue to be his undoing. That play where he was holding his man off with his right arm, jumped and blocked the shot with his left was pretty.
Mensah-Bonsu – ah, the joy of playing against a former team. Did he save his job tonight? I doubt it. He needs to play like this against the other 28 teams in the league and do it consistently. Doubt he has that ability. His hard work also didn’t get repaid by his teammates. He had 2 beautiful blocks that ended up just being turned over by us on the other end. Have to cash those in.
Nesterovic – love to be a fly on the wall when he goes home after these games. “Hi honey, how was work?” “Typical day, dear. I just rode everybody else’s coattails. Oh, Marco is coming over to play Pictionary. Hide the sharp objects and make sure the word ‘successful’ isn’t used. You know what happened the last time he saw that word. Which reminds me, we still have to replace those pillows he tore to shreds with the scissors.”
O’Bryant – word on the street is he is practicing his Punjabi just so he can feel part of these Sunday games on CBC.
Turkoglu- all that was missing was a clutch shot to win the game, but he showed us exactly what we expected when Colangelo went after him. 23, 5 and 6, he was active, he created and he was talking. Completely different body language again. It’s such a strange thing to watch.
Weems – extended minutes off the bench and he made the most of it. Put in 29 minutes, shot 50%, was diving and driving. He stepped up on a day when we needed to be pumping on all cylinders and he proved to be the oil. Great game. Attacking Buddinger early, getting the and-1 and then stepping over Chase’s carcass set the tone.
Wright – didn’t get off the bench. I’m sure matchups had as much to do with it as Weems looking like Pippen out there. Still, hope this DNP-CD acts as a slap in the face to the kid and he grows a set.
Driving The Bus: Jarrett Jack
Under The Bus: Marcus Banks
Game Theme:
145 Raps
weems should start – FREE WEEMS
No. DD has more potential. Also Weems seems undersized.
Weems and DD are very similar players in that they are both athletic and must use their athleticism to be successful. When DD started driving, he got his points and minutes. When Weems drove, he got his points and minutes. DeRozan’s athleticism is VITAL to this team and he needs to learn that that’s the way he can help this team win. Weems probably knows that he’s below DD on the depth chart but he can earn just as many minutes if he contributed that way like he did tonight. Great effort by Weems and Pops tonight, not to mention Jack. Jack got more rebounds than anyone in our frontcourt, funnily enough.
Good eye! Weems is listed on draftday as 6′4″ and 6′5.5″ and Derozan is exactly 1 inch taller although weems has a surprising reach advantage and Derozan has only a small max vert advantage…
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sonny-Weems-330/
Banks is so… so… bad… I was wondering if it would be so much worse to just have calderon out there standing in a corner doing nothing than have banks out on the floor. A little disappointed with Derozan. Felt like he tried to force things that weren’t there. Oh well. Liked what bargs was doing.
Seriously huh… Honestly I actually wanted to see banks on the floor just a bit to get a taste how he would, before Jose got injured. But HE IS TERRIBLE! I don’t understand, why we need a PG on the floor… I mean is it in the nba official rules? Why can’t Belli or whoever else handle the ball, this team would be so much better without banks on the floor…
Good Feel good win!
Cause Bellinell would get exposed defensively by Brooks….and he’d get pressured heavily coming up the floor with the ball by a speedier brooks….just a terrible matchup for him.
I really didn’t think Banks was that bad… he hustled and fought for the ball and played like a 3rd string PG (which happens to be exactly what he is). He gave us 10 minutes (not 5) of relief for Jack. Is he a star? No. Is he terrible? No.
Are you and I watching the same dude?
we could get more out of matt devlin at point guard
Banks is all we’ve got, he isn’t tradeable, so why bitch when he’s out there working hard? Effort is something this team needs. Coming in cold off the bench for a couple of minutes is hard – but I’m not sure if you’ve played any ball yourself… I’m sure we’d be much better off with Douby or having traded for Matt Carrol… or maybe we should have kept J.O. and Moon?
wow someone defending Marcus Banks I honestly didn’t think it was possible.
Gats = Banks Grandmother.
I do feel sorry for Banks sometimes (his Facebook page has 7 fans or something) but he is getting 4 million for doing nothings and it seems he likes it that way.
Banks does have real NBA skills. But he also has the consistancy and basketball IQ of that kid we all played Junior High basketball with that made the team because was a natural athlete and never played the sport before.
We should trade Banks for Adam Morrison and while we’re at it trade Bargs for Oden… Just saying, things could be MUCH worse guys.
Do you… even.. watch basketball?
Obvious sarcasm… Or do you really think those are good trades? Again, if Banks had made a couple of baskets people on here would diefy him like you’re doing with Weems. If Weems lays an egg against Miami, everyone here will want him strapped to the bench again. If Banks made the minimum you probably wouldn’t think he was a bad 3RD STRING pg. Maybe we should talk about the $10 million dollar starter that’s always hurt… Or the team leader without leadership qualities… Maybe the disinterested (until today) free agent signing… They affect things just a little more than Banks or POB…
Careful with irony here on specific subject. If you write that Bargs should be traded for Mickey Mouse, many will take that seriously, as they’d love to sign anyone for him!
DeRozan had a good game,2 rbs, 2 stls, 1 blk, and his defence on Ariza got him out of the game @ 0/9 for his efforts.
DD played good positional defense. He was kinda disinterested on the offense end but you can learn to live without that when Weems picks up the slack the way he did.
Raps need need need contribution from a slashing wing.
Good use of the bench by Jay today ( e.g he let Weems play and sat Wright) That Turk frustrates me no end, he looked asleep against Atlanta then has a game like this, Why the hell cant he show the same effort every game?????
Sonny Weems was a positive influence on the game. I want to see more of him.
I’d like to see Weems get an extended run in the rotation. Around 10 games while playing 10-20 minutes a night.
See what he’s capable of when he’s relied upon on an every-game basis.
Even at the expense of DeRozan?
at the expense of Wright I would assume (and maybe Belli)
Yes, at the expense of Antoine Wright.
Wright clearly isn’t a rotation worthy player in the NBA. Let’s take a little time (10 games, 10-20 minutes a night) and see if Sonny Weems is.
Weems did more in the first half than Wright has done all season. Sonny has athleticsm this team desperately needs – hope he can keep it up.
relax its only been 1 or 2 games where Weems produced, other times he looked like a poor man Jamario Moon.
Agreed — Weems has been poor more often than not. He has been receiving low + inconsistent minutes though. At times Weems has flashed his potential and I think he’s shown enough to deserve a real opportunity. A consistent role in the rotation for a decent number of games (10 games, 10-20 minutes a night). Once he’s had that opportunity we’ll know what he’s capable of and whether he’s good enough to be in the Raps rotation full time.
He was a rotation player in Dallas but clearly they had him corraled to play defense first and possibly a last option on offense. Rick Carlisle must have looked him in the eye and probably said something about growing calluses sitting on the bence.
That’s Triano’s fault.
If he started Wright there be no confusion of his role.
Defense. Bring Derozan off the bench as a offensive weapon.
Just like the Spurs do. If Derozan is playing well give him 30 minutes.
David says “”That’s Triano’s fault.
If he started Wright there be no confusion of his role.
Defense. Bring Derozan off the bench as a offensive weapon.”"
David if my Aunt had balls she’d be mt uncle! Triano did not start Wright and here we are today and so far my aunt deserves to start over Wright. If Triano started that bum today it would be the last straw for me. I could care less if he has a defensive history, because he’s failing basketball 101 now. He has done nothing positive yet and if anything is only a nasty mouthpiece. I cannot understand why any media gives that bum airtime. Even Banks has more class.
Great point Dave. Take Wright’s 17 min/game – you CANNOT have worse shot selection than Wright. Weems needs to be more selective as well, but give him consistent min over a stretch and I bet he’s much better. Have a little chit chat saying we’re giving you the min for a stretch – don’t abuse it and you may be a more permanent change.
Why are you guys all arguing that one of our best defensive players should get less minutes so the Raps can generate more offense? What games are you watching?
If this “best defensive player” would actually show us something defensively, it might be a different story. I havent really seen him make an impact on defense. I think he took few charges in pre-season games, but after that he hasnt stud out from this group of bad defenders.
And even if he was a bit better defender than your average guy, his awful decisions offensively negate any good. He is taking bad shots, turning the ball over and doesnt seem to realise what his role is.
Wright has been a total vacuity up to day, giving nothing on defence, being terrible on offense, and speaking like an a*****e to the press before doing it with teammates and coaches.
What game are you watching yourself, man? Something on WII or PS2 probably.
Whalleywhat Where exactly has Wright done anything defensive yet? Why exactly is he one of our best defensive players anyway? because the team that gave his sorry ass to us said so…makes a ton of sense.He has been as bad on defense as anyone he’s replaced and his offensive disaster negates anything good times at least ten. He not only tries to do it himself even though he’s the poorest excuse for an offensive player yet, he also looks off better players over and over then speaks to the media about them. He’s garbage man and needs to be on the bench. If he ever wants to see the floor again he should earn it with his play in practice, and not in the games or with his mouth.
The Jack at SG experiment must end. He’s proven he’s a legit PG, so play him there.
Yeah I agree, but Jay will probably start putting Calderon at the 2 guard spot.
hahaha .. I should be crying because I know it’s true..
I love the way Jack get the outlet and hauls ass down the court…it encourages and rewards guys for running. (Weems)
Poll — Waive Patrick O’Bryant’s useless rear end and bring in another point guard. Keep Pops.
+1 from me. I agree with Alt, the heavy minutes could really end up wearing on Jack.
Can we waive POB? I assumed the reason we hadn’t already was because his contract was guaranteed or something. Otherwise, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR.
O’Bryant’s contract is guaranteed. Pops’ deal is not.
I’d rather eat POB’s contract and keep Pops. Pops is someone who can actually help the team whereas O’Bryant is not.
And, if Jose is out for awhile, I’d love to see another PG brought in to backup Jarrett Jack so we can avoid seeing Marcus Banks every night. Need to free up a roster spot to do that.
How about Belli at back up PG
I just mentioned that as well. I think this is the best Jay can too and I have a feeling with extended minutes Marco will suprise us all.
I’d be happy with Belinelli at the point … definitely happier than having Banks out there on the floor.
That would leave a fair amount of vacant minutes on the wing. 34 for Hedo and 20 for DeRozan. So 42 available minutes on the wing. Good opportunity to get Sonny Weems some run (say 15-20 minutes) and get DeRozan some longer court time (10 more minutes, 30 minutes overall). Then give Beli the remainder of the minutes on the wing (10-15 minutes on top of the 15 he’d play at the point). Yeah, hopefully, the Raptors can still keep Wright off the court.
—————————————————
Are there any talented point guards available in free agency?
Because unless there’s a rotation worthy PG available … then I think Belinelli at the point is clearly the Raptors best option.
I said this earlier in the season … but even more so now if Calderon is out and someone like Belinelli or Banks is at the point … I think Hedo Turkoglu should in that second unit.
Great opportunity for Hedo Turkoglu to get the run of the offense. Allow him to be lead playmaker + main offensive threat. Get him in rhythm for the rest of the game when he has to be more diplomatic with his touches/shot attempts.
While Hedo is decent half-court ball handler, he does not posses quickness nor energy to dribble the ball full court. Just watch him – he can make few dribbles around the screens and he pulls the jumper or passes the ball. Yes, he is the best ball handler out of big guys, but he can do it only in spurts, not full court under pressure.
Arsenalist mentioned Carlos Arroyo in the forums recently as a possible target if the Heat waived him. Rumour mill says they’re considering the idea in order to save some dollars (that said, I don’t believe the rumour). Arroyo would be a player I’d be interested in picking up in free agency if he were indeed placed on the waiver wire.
Some other names — Antonio Daniels, Stephon Marbury, Brevin Knight — No interest in the first two. Slight interest in Knight. I’d rather play Belinelli at the point than any of those three players though.
Not sure who I’d rather play between Belinelli and Arroyo. I prefer the idea of Belinelli at the point, versus Arroyo at the point, but I’m worried about that wing rotation. Lack of dependable talent/contributions there … why I have some interest in keeping Marco as an off guard and giving him more minutes there with Jack no longer available for SG minutes if Calderon is out for an extended period.
Is this the same Dave that is a contributor to the roundtable?
yup, he linked his name to his site.
Last summer’s draft was loaded with talented PGs.
My understanding is that this coming draft is loaded with PFs.
Actually, I’m pretty sure only half of POB’s contract (~400k) is guarenteed, which should be pro-rated down based on the number of games already played, ~300k?… I don’t know what Raptor financials look like, but I think they can swallow that.
Patrick O’Bryant’s contract was partially guaranteed prior to the season starting. I forget when exactly (prior to free agency?) but it became fully guaranteed sometime early in the summer.
Not certain … but I think the Raptors are still far enough below the luxury tax threshold to afford another minimum contract. Some varying opinions on that on various salary sites though.
why do you have to dash my hopes Dave? :(
guess i should get used to seeing POB try to keep himself awake on the bench for the rest of the season :P
Landry, Scola and Hayes really nullified Bosh on the boards. Jack picked up some of the slack, but I was hoping more from Bosh there. This is not a game where he should have easily posted a double-double, but 6 wasnt a good showing.
Good. They can play. It’s like they visit RR and read comments after their stinkers, and pick up their game afterwards. Hedo must be visiting RR. We still have old problem – one step ahead, two backwards. Sort of like the last year version of the club.
Let’s hope they end up somewhere close to 500 record by the New Year, and start fresh afterwards.
Lets just hope! I we end up at .500, that would be great. We can only improve past the new years. But still, a really disappointing start to the season.
It kind of feels like the last season, where we were always expecting the Raps to bounce back, it just happend too little too late! I really hope this season does not end the same way…
nesterovic and pob ones were hilarious…
yep the Rasho bit was absolutely fantastic.
Agreed! Poor Marco.
I thought the unit of
Bosh
Johnson
Weems
DeRozan
Jack
was interesting.
Clearly the Raptors most athletic and quickest unit.
I am not saying the best unit but just the most athletic and quickest.
i think jack should keep the starting job even when calderon comes back
And so it begins…
It began when we signed Jack.
it begin when Calderon couldn’t gaurd opposing PG and apprently the worst defender in the NBA.
This is why I don’t understand with Jay. Banks is just awful. Why not get Belineli run the 2nd unit as a point Guard ?? What is the worst thing that can happen ? He can play like Banks and then we know what we have.
Come on Ja, be more creative and let the fat kid sit on the bench
Nice to see the effort and Jack and Hedo playing well at the same time. Although I dont think either Bosh or AB was bad tonight, but it was nice to see other guys can carry us, when neither of them is having a great game.
And Weems certainly deserves more PT. Compared to Wright he is magnificient. And even if he takes some minutes from DD when DD isnt aggressive I wouldnt mind. He is young too and looks like he could become valuable guy of the bench. Even the few jumpers he missed in this game where shot he needed to take. Not forced ones where you “why is he shooting” but the kind where someone gets you totally open and you just have to take it even if you are not the best shooter in the team.
Right now I wouldnt mind Jose sitting out a few just to see if Jack can continue to play like this. If he does, Id say he could keep starting after Jose comes back. Jose is one of my favorite players, but bench role might actually do him some good. And it would balance our team better when Jose can bring some offensive skills of the bench and Jack brings some toughness (his defense in long run hasnt been that great, but he is certainly tougher than Jose).
Btw. anyone notice how awful offensive lineup we had at one point on the floor. Banks, Marco, Weems, Pops, and Amir if I recall correctly. Marco can create some, but after that Weems taking jumpers is our second best offensive option there :)
Now please show the same effort against Miami. You know you can beat them. I dont even mind if we get killed by Orlando after that. Just beat Miami.
Btw. anyone notice how awful offensive lineup we had at one point on the floor. Banks, Marco, Weems, Pops, and Amir if I recall correctly. Marco can create some, but after that Weems taking jumpers is our second best offensive option there :)
Yes – and it has backfired at other times this seeason -it is like playing russian roulette – fortunately we drew the empty chamber
2 nights in South Beach is not a good recipe for a display of energy on the court. Triano should ankle bracelet them.
Your nick reminded me of the fine ex-coach (and player) for the Rockets Tomjanovich. Any connection?
Yes thats me ;)
Seriously, no connection. Not the first to ask though.
That’s one reason that makes me worry about Triano. Those types of linups show up every game
and it really hurts the team. Don’t understand his thinking at all.
I would not play Banks unless necessary
Triano should work the minutes so that Turkoglu can play point forward when Jack is out.
Belinelli, DeRozan and Weems could rotate at the small forward and guard positions during the time Jack or Turkoglu is resting on the bench.
That would leave the Raptors with basically an 7 man rotation plus Johnson. Rasho would play when Johnson gets in foul trouble giving the Raptors a 9 man rotation with Calderon injured.
It is now like last season where Soloman was the back up – lets hope Jose isn’t out too long.
At least we have Jack this year! Last year when Jose went down it was Solomon or Roko… Imagine if Jose didn’t take the summer off to prevent injuries!!!
wright was calling out triano to make lineup changes and call guys out… i think triano was listening…
Which is hilarious because he’s one of the casualties.
I love watching Wright’s ass nailed to the bench. I wouldn’t despise him so much just because he’s stunk , but with a guy that has played like him being the most vocal and calling out other players and the coach I hope his ass gets glued to the bench for three or four straight and then he gets in only if he playes hard defense and never shoots again. As soon as he tries to get his own offence on anything but a play where he’s under the hoop alone he should be benched.
Agreed. Can’t be a mouthpiece and be the worst performer on the court at the same time. Give me Weems off the bench any day.
These hilarious roll calls is what I look for after the game!
Keep up the good work guys, nice win!
Need more games like this from the Turk so we can milk him for what he’s worth!
Seriously, let Turk dribble the ball up the court of Belli, just like he did with Parker last year. Just keeps Banks off the floor, Brooks drained 2 threes with Banks on him. Give him the 4M he’s got left and give him the boot!
is marcus banks the worst player in the nba?
Patrick O’Bryant is worse.
agreed
Can’t be worse if you are on the bench.
POB made 0 mistakes today! lol
Keep it real people–> when they lose “colangelo gave us a shit team….his sighnings dont make sense…derozan was a stupid draft pick”
be patient evryone, colangelo’s best signing this year was Jack at the backup pg. period.
getting turk was all he could do with the market he had availiable
DD is gunna lead us to the promise land…IF YOU GUYS STAY PATIENT!!!
and fuck everyone when it comess to backup pg JJ—that what your supposed to do is spread the ball and win games, joses hurt Jack IS the starting pg rite now, so fuck off with the speculation about him taking over the starting job, its bullshit( not to say it wont happen)
This team under performimg is not the GM’s fault and if it is, give him time to fix his mistakes(it takes years to build a team)..show faith toronto! & most importantlty keep it real.
.
When it comes to faith, Toronto fans are very accustomed to that word.
As for someone’s fantasy world, Jack takes the Raps to a Second Round 7 game series.
.
50 PTS IN THE PAINT. Take note you lousy ass coach.
I liked seeing Pops Mensah Bonsu play alongside Amir Johnson and Sonny Weems. That’s a very interesting combination. Very active, great in transition, lot of effort defensively + on the boards.
Put Belinelli and Hedo Turkoglu alongside them for some offensive punch and you could have a very interesting second unit.
Who’s the superior player, Pops or Evans?
I’d go with Pops …
If Pops can continue to put up comparable rebounding numbers (19%+ rebounding rate) then I think Pops is the superior player … plus a much better complement to each of Bosh, Bargnani and Amir Johnson.
I think Pops Mensah Bonsu has large advantages over Reggie Evans defensively + in transition. Even if Pops’ rebounding drops a notch (17% rebounding rate), I think those attributes + how well he fits alongside the other three big men makes him a better choice than Reggie Evans.
I’d like to see Pops be the Raptors fourth big man in the rotation along with Amir behind Bosh and Bargnani. I think the Raptors big men lack quickness + mobility when they go with Rasho/Reggie + Bargnani alongside one of Bosh/Amir. Pops brings that athleticism to the table.
Unrelated question .. Would you do Bargnani for Carl Landry in a trade, salaries permitting?
No, because I think Bargnani has better trade value than that. I think he could net a near All-Star talent or a young player / draft pick with the potential to become an All-Star talent in a trade.
Second choice would be a salary dump, which you could classify this trade as. Third choice would be two role players with comparable ability to a Carl Landry.
The trade (Bargs for Landry) would improve the Raptors though.
carl landry would be the most perfect player on the raptors.
he has every thing the raptors don’t : hustle and balls
interesting dave, i would definately do a landry for bargnani trade.
Is what you mean by 2 high quality role players chuck hayes + landry. I would make a trade like that in a heartbeat.
I think the Raptors could get better quality in two role players than Landry + Hayes. I’d be hoping for someone closer to Ariza or Battier as the primary player with Landy being the secondary piece.
In the forums, someone brought up a trade of John Salmons + Ty Thomas. That would be closer to what I’d hope to bring back in a Bargnani trade for role players.
YES.
Landry is what Colangelo hopes Amir Johnson will become.
Neither can give you what Bargnani already has.
Amir Johnson is a very different player to Carl Landry.
Landry is 12-15 poin,t 8 rebound guy if given 30+ minutes a night. Amir Johnson is a 10-12 point, 10-12 rebound, 2 blocks, 55-60% FG%, with game-changing defensive potential.
Landry is a prototypical power forward. Strong, aggressive, shoves people around, great motor. Albeit undersized. Skill-wise he’s a solid all around player. Good offensively (very good-to-excellent for a role player), good finisher + good at drawing fouls + solid midrange jump shot. Very effective in pick and rolls + pick and pops. Somebody you work into an offense. You let him play off of your star playmakers and take advantage of the defense’s attention on tehm. Solid defense + solid rebounding. Best in the halfcourt but functional in transition.
Amir Johnson is a long athletic svelte big man. He’s a very good-to-excellent rebounder. A very good-to-excellent shot blocker. Provides a lot of help/team defense. Only a decent man-to-man defender. Oodles of defensive potential to improve his one-on-one D + general team D. Offensively, he’s simply a garbage man who shouldn’t be asked for anything more, but he’s an intelligent + efficient garbage man who plays inside his limitations which is very valuable (lot more offensive value than a guy like Reggie Evans). Excellent in the open court both defensively + offensively, the higher the tempo the more effective and destructive to the opposition Amir Johnson becomes.
For lack of a better comparison, Amir Johnson is more like a smaller version of a Tyson Chandler (very good-to-elite defensive potential + very good-to-elite rebounding ability/potential + high quality garbage man play offensively). An out and out power forward though. Carl Landry has more in common with Leon Powe, Jason Maxiell (solid all-round undersized power forwards) and to a lesser extent DeJuan Blair and Paul Millsap.
In terms of current talent, Landry + Amir play a very different style of game but have a comparable overall impact on games. In terms of potential, it’s not even close, Amir Johnson is a far superior prospect.
If Amir fulfills his potential — which I believe is fairly irrelevant to Raptors fans because I don’t think he’s in the team’s plans past this season — he becomes one of the best players in the entire league at impacting the game without needing touches/shot attempts offensively. A guy who doesn’t need the ball who has an All-Star or near All-Star level impact on a game.
On a final note, I think it’s highly doubtful Amir fully fulfills his potential but I do think there’s a lot more still to come (more like very good defender + very good rebounder rather than elite + elite which is a big difference but still one heck of an impact player).
** Both players are better than Bargnani.
Correction: Carl Landry is in between the two groups Leon Powe/Jason Maxiell and DeJuan Blair/Paul Millsap. Actually, Brandon Bass might be the better comparison altogether. Landry is a better scorer (more efficient + varied) but has less defensive quality, comparable overall impact to Bass.
Interesting post within the box.
Johnson can do a heck of lot more on offense than people who have only seen his NBA career believe.
Whether he will ever get the opportunity to eventually show it depends on his being able to solve his foul problem and stay on the court.
Those two assists by him last night were no accident. Triano is now running plays with Johnson positioned at the top of the key facing the basket and with the ball.
This and off the elbow facing the basket is his game on offense. It always has been and always will be. From that position when given the ball and the green light to decide what to do he has shown that he can effectively.
1. Pass effectively
2. Drive to the basket and get fouled and/or score
3. Drive to the basket and score
4. Start the give and go and score
5. Make jump shots effectively.
For some stupid reason, probably because Johnson has always been able to get offensive rebounds, the Pistons who have never developed a big man under Dumans leadership decided to try and turn Johnson into a low post back to the basket player. This essentially resulted in his being excluded from the offense as Johnson never has been and never will be a low post player.
His game on offense has always been as a face up high post player. The offensive rebound stuff is nothing more than icing on the cake.
Now that I have written something good about him, most likely he will be have a bad game against the Heat. LOL
You were doing ok until you said Both players are better than Bargnani. You either hate him or are pretty blind.
Buddafan…. I like what Johnson brings to the game, but having seen him play this year and more than a few times with Detroit I’m not convinced he can do any of those things on offense (atleast not with any level of consitency)
He’s a garbage man… and will score garbage man buckets, with the odd post up on a mismatch.
I think giving him the ball to drive to the net or take jumpers will only lead to disaster. If he gets a man real low in the post I’m all for giving him the ball. But anything that involves him controling the ball for any length of time won’t end well.
Lets see Pops play in a few more non-meaningless games before we start calling him useful. When his energy level is up he’s fun to watch.
I think the Pops/Douby change was pre-planned by Houston/Toronto. Recall that Toronto wanted to trade Douby but couldn’t.
I have watched him play since his high school days. I know what he can do when given the chance.
Disaster is a pretty strong term to use especially when one has no concrete historical evidence to support that opinion.
When have you ever seen Johnson operate from the high post and elbows and bring disaster? One or two bad play doesn’t cut it. Tony Parker commits tons of bad plays i.e, turnovers, compared to Calderon, yet no one says Parker’s game is a disaster and rightly so. In fact I bet most Raptor fans would trade Calderon for Parker faster than one could say ACC.
Bring me the film of one game where Johnson has operated from the high post and elbows that has been a disaster. It won’t be an NBA game because he has never been given the chance to operate that way since he has been in the NBA up until now.
What little of what Triano has installed so far allowing Johnson to operate from the high post and elbows has been anything but a disaster.
Lets just agree to disagree.
Ok well the term ‘disaster’ may be an overstatement. But beating guys in highschool and in the NBA are two totally different things. I beat alot of guys in highscool… but I wouldn’t stand a chance in the NBA.
“because he has never been given the chance to operate that way since he has been in the NBA”
do you think that there may be a reason for this? And its not like he’s had 1 coach holding him back. He’s on his third(?) coach now.
I’m not knocking Johnson and I know you are a big fan of his. He does what he’s good at. Rebound and chase the ball. Great lunch box guy for almost any team I would think, but I don’t think the raps should expect regular offensive production from him.
I wish Pops would grow up.
He gave back as much as he took with his defense because he doesn’t concentrate when he plays. Pops is very frustrating to watch.
I can’t believe they have another back-to-back to play this week (both road games to boot). They’ve also played 3-4 more games than every other team in the league. Seriously brutal early schedule. If they can get to the new year at or close to .500 then they stand a good chance second half of the season (especially with Reggie who I’m assuming will some day play again!?!).
Simply put, houston doesn’t have the size to oppose the bosh\bargnani combo.
we won because houston couldnt buy a bucket not bc of our bigs… bargs and bosh couldnt stop landry or scola
Bargs was contesting shots, making life difficult for his man and attacking on the other side. They made tough shats.
CL & LS got 20 pts each not 50! And Houston had less success stopping Toronto’s bigs.
Usually not being able to buy a bucket indicates some effort on defense!
Not really. It’s not as though Bosh and Bargnani use their size advantage to abuse smaller opponents. Teams with smaller, quicker, athletic pfs are the ones that give the Bs the most trouble. Case in point .. Atlanta.
I am not so sure about that.
The Rockets are 1 – 1 vs the Lakers this season with their loss coming by only 1 point. Admittedly Gasol did not play in either of those two games but Bynum and Odom did. I would say that they are comparable to and possibly even better than Bosh and Bargnani.
Bynum would score a ton more than his current 17.4 a game if he wasn’t playing on a team with Pau and Kobe. I would rather have Bosh and Odom than Bosh and Bargnani.
I would rather have Bargs and Gasol or Bynum than Bargs and Bosh.
LOVE the Jack Johnson game theme pick. Everybody needs more Jack Johnson in their life.
jack should be the starter, even if caldereta returns. jose should be demoted to the bench and be a jason terry/eddie house type of player. jack is more fit to handle the likes of rondo, paul, than jose. if caldy feels bad, trade him.
DD should still start, because that is where he gets his minutes. weems is good and brings energy off the bench. i would love for him to have wright’s minutes, if not only for wright’s d. coz wright is terrible on the offense and still jacks up jamario moon shots.
agreed second half of your post, not the first half. i hope BC can trade wright
Wright has an expiring deal – trade’im or bench’im.
Unless of course he play improves. Wright has been a survivor.
lol a little bit out of topic but yeah Sheamus Won the WWE title noo
Evans is far superior to Pops. But Pops is more exciting.
Jack should keep starting when Calderon gets back.
Play of the night? All the jumpers Wright DIDNT have the chance to take. Shoot your mouth off, take less shots. I like it.
Amir Johnson going for the pin
http://www.blueridgenow.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=*&Date=20091213&Category=APS&ArtNo=912132214&Ref=AR&AvisData=HT
I don’t think that the link works
Here is the photo from the original story
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20091213/APS/912132214
A lot of people have been tearing into Marcus Banks and I honestly don’t think its warrented. Is he a star? No. He did bring some good energy off the bench though. As far as the two threes that brooks hit.. They were contested 3 point shots. How many times did he get burned to the basket for a layups? – 0.. now ask yourself this: how many times does Jose get burned to the basket for layups? Listen, he was -9 tonight. He isn’t a good player… but its not about talent. Marco Belinelli is one of the most talented players on the raps. He was 1-3 in 8 minutes.. defensively he wasn’t as good as Banks. Yet everybody raves about him because he can make a 20 foot fadeway one out of every 3 times.. if marcus can play respectable D then dribble up the court and give it to Turkoglu and get out of the way, I’m happy with that. Marcus did a good job of playing d and moving the ball tonight. And he’ll get minutes next game because of it.
Ya I agree, Banks didn’t exactly go out there and force comparisons with him and Chris Paul, but he did allow us to take Jack off for a decent stretch. No, he shouldn’t be a rotation guy if Jose’s in, but he works hard and doesn’t force his own too often.
You must have missed the “hi-light” packages of Banks defense over the last couple of games.
Hopefully he improves. Choices are limited.
Not like he was up against the fastest player in the league today… oh wait… Banks could give POB type efforts when he does get his minutes and still get paid, but he actually works hard. If only the good players started working hard every game maybe the Raps wouldn’t be so terrible most nights.
We aren’t talking about the last couple of games..
By the way, go back and watch the game. Start at 9:00 or 10:00 left in the second quarter. Banks made a serious of good plays including a drive to the bucket that ended with pops at the line and then a cross court pass to turks… Banks is guarding Brooks and Beli is guarding Lowry. Brooks does nothing on Banks and Lowry literally scorches Beli 4 times in a row.. until Jay calls time. go back and watch. Sorry AltRaps but your Banks analysis is clearly Ad Hominem.
Glad to see you saying this, cuz I saw Banks out there in the first half looking, I thought, quite ok. Then, company arrived and I had only one eye on the game for much of what was left … so, reading comments here, I wondered if I missed all the horrors of the evil Marcus Banks … cuz I just didn’t see that. I’ll make a point to watch the game again to see for myself, now that I’ve seen your take. Thanks.
banks is not worthy of being in the nba .
Next season Bosh will make more than the entire Houston starting lineup ($19 million). Man, Houston GM is a smart smart guy. Can we swap Bryan with him?
Wrong. Close, but Bosh can only make 17ish million next year. Still, point taken.
Good point. So how much better can we get giving Bosh even more money with a max contract and crippling the Raptors for a long long time.
this team is truly bipolar. maybe that explains the fanbase. this team does not have a defensive stopper yet when they collectively hustle and attempt to play d they are pretty damn good. 8-0 when keeping opponents under 100. even though bosh only had 6 boards his 2 swats more than made up for it. swats are key as it means were getting up to aggressively alter shots versus staying grounded and putting arms up in a lame attempt to not get a foul call. we had a bunch of swats today. it would be nice to see more of that and every rap should use all 6 fouls as were deep enough.
jack is looking damn good at pg and flirting with triple doubles is making my heart melt.take your time getting better jose.take your time.
Next time Bargnani gets five rebounds and has two blocks it should also be ok. Can’t wait for your comment in another game about that. Another thing that you should also not comment is if Bargnani does not get a single rebound in a single half. You seem to be content with Bosh not getting a single rebound in the second half. You cannot justify your statement for one player only.
Hey altrap, that line about Bosh in Bargnani’s analysis. It saved you a lot of abuse today.
Lesson learned – Never criticize Bargs without mentioning Bosh.
I love Andrea, but here’s the thing that I’d really like to see him improve on: his attention to the details of the game as they’re happening. Saw most of the game in fragments with one eye, but before I was distracted from it, there was a play that summed up the ‘attention’ thing for me. Bosh had taken a long shot that everyone could see (I’m sure) was going to be short (I did). But Bargnani was already loping towards the basket, not watching the ball (even with one eye) and … the shot hit the front of the rim and bounced to a spot that Bargs was nowhere near. The point being, had he had SOME sense of where the ball was going as it was heading to the outside of the front rim, he could easily have better predicted where the ball was going to end up. If he got 30 or so % more engaged, he’d be truly dangerous.
And why not drive more, Andrea? Two steps it seems, and you’re around them and at the basket. Once you start that drive to the hole, they VERY seldom foil your plan. Please … please do it more.
I agree Bargnani should work harder more consistently and can show us more, but I can’t resist a comment on the shot in question. Do you mean the horrible three point shot Bosh tried while Houston was trying to make a comeback and there was lots of time on the clock?
Yes, probably the one I was remembering. Soon after it left Bosh’s hand, it looked to be going short … and Bargs was doing the right thing (or at least a good thing) by heading towards the basket for the rebound. Had he peeked at the trajectory of the ball though, he might’ve slowed up or shifted his direction a bit, for a better chance at the rebound, was all.
… in case you really wanted an answer on that.
Marcus Banks does not work hard. Five years ago he was the second best defensive point guard in all of basketball (behind Jason Kidd) and one of the best athletes at the position in the NBA. Those skills + athleticism have deteriorated away because of Banks’ lack of professionalism + work ethic.
I just want to be clear on this Johnson thing.
In no way am I suggesting that Johnson spend all of his time on the offensive side at the high post or elbows.
What I am saying is that it is nice to see him getting a chance to do that during the games and I would like to see that opportunity increase somewhat for him at this time because it is my opinion that doing so would benefit the Raptors offesne.
I would however, like to see him stop posting up in the low post. Basically I think it is a waste of time and even more so negatively impacts the Raptors offense because it makes the Raptors a four on five team on offense at the best when Johnson does that.
That does not mean I am against his playing off the lane down low looking for an rebound on the offensive glass. However even here the Raptors should try and run some alley-oop plays for him.
@Statement — Yes
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