Not sure what a win or a loss here means. A loss would go right in hand with what’s been going on with this team and a win would be just plain confusing. We’re at a very precarious stage of the season, after 25 games the record isn’t exactly brutal but at the same time the team hasn’t shown that they’re better than it. It’s one thing to hold a bad record and be a half-decent team, another to own a bad record and actually be bad. A familiar theme seems to be arising – beat the terrible ones, play .500 or bit lower against teams considered on par and lose spectacularly to the good ones. That, sir, gets you a record below .500 which doesn’t do much for the franchise.
First up, I’m sick of the fans who are trying to figure out who had the less shitty game – Bosh or Bargnani. Does it really matter? The fans were split along the Forderon lines a few years back but that was understandable because the team was winning and it was a fun thing to debate. This is different, we’re trying to assign blame on one particular player when the whole unit is playing like complete crap. It doesn’t make sense, take Atlanta for example, I read a comment in the post yesterday complaining how Bargnani was given credit for only one rebound in the Globe and Mail instead of 3. Really? Does that even warrant mention? I mean, it’s not like 3 is so much higher than 1 that it changes the meaning of the stat. We’re debating Bosh’s 5 turnovers and wondering whether one of it came due to an offensive goaltending. All this time Atlanta is kicking our ass in our own building while Jay Triano looks like he’s in a can trying to squirt one out the size of a baseball bat. Or while Bryan Colangelo models his high-collared shirts standing in the ACC tunnel next to Maurizio Gherardini who’s still chewing the pork-chop he ate yesterday. Let’s look at the big picture and be done with the Bosh/Bargnani BS.
Houston trots in tonight without Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady and still finds itself at 13-9. A solidly constructed team with quality at each position and more importantly, players who are committed to the cause. They’ve won 5 of 6, the lone blemish a one point road defeat to Brandon Roy on the road. They’ve got speed with Aaron Brooks, pure hustle with Carl Landry, a tidy professional in Shane Battier, a solid defender in Trevor Ariza, and one of the most underrated players in the league in Luis Scola. Even their second round pick, Chase Budinger, is averaging 9 points leading all second rounders. Holding this bunch together is Rick Adelman’s experience and faith in team-ball philosophy, something he’s been preaching for ages and which has manifested in success in Sacramento and now in Houston. They’re better than us, and the purest proof of it is that we pick up their trash – Pops Mensah-Bonsu. Game thread has more. Trevor Ariza on the Rockets frontline:
“They’re undersized, but they play with a lot of heart. That’s what got them here, and that’s what got us where we are right now.”
Aah, heart. I long for those days. Back to the team-ball thing, when I heard that we were going Euro in Toronto the thoughts that conjured up in my head were those of beautiful passing, all five players touching the ball, movement-oriented offense, Princeton cuts, hi-lo feeds, high IQ plays, cross-court passes that slice open defenses, and all those things I for some reason associated with European basketball. None of that has happened, we’re playing traditional basketball with non-traditional players, something tells me it’s not going to work. Square peg, round hole.
Sustaining effort and competitiveness beyond the first quarter has been a problem in the last two games. We hung with Milwaukee and Atlanta in the first quarter but as soon as the benches came into play, we got crushed. Our bench got outscored 55-33 against Atlanta and thoroughly outplayed in the late-first and early-second stage of the Milwaukee game, in both instances the opposing team built a lead we never managed to erase. Consistency is the key and we don’t have it, Belinelli (as much as I like him) doesn’t seem like the guy that can be counted on to bring it every night, Jack is a solid pick-up but after him it really gets thin. This is a team built entirely around its starters and when they’re not producing as expected, we will suffer. While the good teams have backup plans, we don’t. Our depth at the 3, 4 and 5 positions has been exposed, Wright has been a failure, Johnson has been pleasantly surprising but far from a solution, and Rasho has been about as expected given his age. Evans hasn’t had a chance to do anything yet but c’mon, I mean, c’mon. He’s not a saviour and if we’re relying on him to be a saviour, we have much, much bigger issues.
A guy we all would like to see more of, Sonny Weems, is expected to get more burn against Houston. Belinelli hasn’t done much to make the bench minutes at the SG his own so we have to look at other options and so far this season Weems has been more or less ignored. Reggie Evans practiced but remains out, Jose Calderon practiced but didn’t appear to move too well and got shut down early; he’ll be out for a while. Triano’s going to have to figure out the backup PG position and right now waiving Douby doesn’t look like the right move (Carlos Arroyo could soon be available), he’s going to rely on Belinelli and Turkoglu to pick up the slack but Banks will be activated (formality, really, what the hell would it say about him if he’s a health scratch on a team with one PG). Triano spoke about the PG situation and how the team seems to give up after conceding a small run:
It’ll change the point guard spot… We’re going to make a couple of other changes too, to bring some more energy. Our biggest problem has been, I don’t know if it’s complacency or what, but they go on a 6-0 run and we kind of hang our heads a bit, and we’re still up. We just have to make sure that we get fresh guys in, energy and do the little things.”
What do you do when you’re not making your threes? Shoot more threes, of course. That’s what Triano’s plan is to get the team out of their slump, Chris Bosh tends to agree although why he’s commenting on three-point shooting is a mystery:
“Shooting is a lot mental. If you start pump faking and thinking about it, you’re probably not going to make it. You have to step into it and shoot your shot…. Lay it out on the line. That’s what this game is about. Lay it on out there. I don’t care if I miss five shots in a row because if I don’t [take an open shot], what’s the best we’re going to get? A panic shot at the end of the shot clock. That’s just about being aggressive and believing in our talent.”
So as we wait for this afternoon’s game against Houston, all you hope is that if the Raptors do win, it’s the start of something good. If they’re winning this game only to drop 4 of 5, I’d rather they lose this one too and get exposed for what we all fear they are – gutless. That gut will be tested this afternoon, Houston leads the league in offensive rebounding and plays 48 minutes. An optimist could argue that on paper this is a close game, but once you factor in team form and Houston’s effort level, this could get ugly. Bargnani and Bosh have offensive advantages, but will they be able to put that to use and not give it right back and more on defense? That seems to be what plagues every Raptor. Here’s hoping Hedo Turkoglu has two good games in a row, it’ll help us win this game and might even go some ways in renewing Portland’s interest in him. Houston is only a 1.5 favorite, I guess the odds-makers have more faith in the Raptors than we do.
Hey, you know how Scott Skiles threw Roko Ukic out there hoping he’d have some incentive to do well against his former team? You think we could pull something like that off with Pops? Naaah…just joking. Try to enjoy the game and I’ll try to do the same, although these days watching Raptors basketball seems to suck the life out of me. This has been surprisingly enjoyable.
72 Raps
Pops already used his revenge game… on us…
This is a LOSS…unfortunately. The Rockets are everything the Raptors are not and play the exact type of basketball that the Raptors lose to (eg. with heart and 48 minute effort).
Scola and Landry are a formidable frontcourt
Agreed. If you look at the Rockets roster compare to ours, we have the better team ON PAPER. But heart and effort wins games and the Rockets are showing that. Wouldn’t hurt either to have Aldeman as your head coach compare to Triano.
hey everyone here knows you aren’t really a truck
how can you be sure?
Holy shit it’s Maximum Overdrive all over again!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqz2rejJS6M
Great as usual. I agree with your first point about AB vs Bosh , I am sick of it too and do not see any point that is being made by comparing these two.
However, the 2nd point about the lack of Talent in the 2nd unit !! I have to disagree. It was not even 2 month ago when we were all excited about the 2nd unit and were wondering HOW Jay going to give minutes to these guys and how we have really two team and …
I think there are teams in this league who has a better record than us and have a significantly worst benches, example : Rockets, Suns.
I think the major problem with the 2nd unit is that Jan does not know how to use them. I really like Jay and was/am hoping he will be successful but a days go by, he just not doing anything to make me think he has any solutions.
The problem is that we are stuck with Jay as well since Raptors is not about to pay 2 former coaches sit at home while being paied and get a high caliber 3rd coach,
‘I think there are teams in this league who has a better record than us and have a significantly worst benches, example : Rockets, Suns”.
What evidence supports this comment? what i see is a bench (jack excepted) that has proved to be totally unreliable on a game to game basis and it is killing us – yeah occassionally johnson or belenelli might give you a good game or, more often, they might give you nothing and put the team in holes they cannot get out of (like Friday against Atlanta)
Quality of Bench is VERY opinion based, but for what it is worth I agree that we probably have a average to above average bench talent in comparison to the rest of the league… (many of whom have better records…)
Just Look at the other teams Bench and Compare with the following:
Jack ( Starter in Indiana), Wright ( He was a starter in Dallas), Belineli, Johnson and Evans.
Now, you may say Wright is playing like shit which proves my point. Our whole team is under utilized and players are not playing to their caliber for what ever reason.
Our team as a collection is not able to bring the best out of their players.
Let me Leave you with one further question:
How many people here think this team will perform better with us bringing better players in ( No Super stars like Lebron or Wade but just better players)?
I don’t think that it will make any difference. I don’t think a new player ( does not matter how good he is) can change our defence or increase the hussle of the team or the culture of the team.
Jeez, shahinc, do I have to spoonfeed you all the time …???
FAQ says:
Dec 13, 2009 at 12:25 am
Your 2010-11 Raptor Roster (after the trade with NYKs):
PG — Jose, Jack
SG — Demar, Belli
SF — Hedo, Galli
PF — Bargs, Lee
C — Darko, Rasho
Bn — Weems, Banks, Reggie, Amir
This is just about as good as it will get in Toronto for the Raptors .. believe it.
Dream On man :) How about we make this little more interesting if it so obvious to you.
If this trade with Bosh to NYC and Lee, Galinari and Darko to Toronto actually happens in future, then I will never post here again, however, if this trade does not happen, then you DON’T post here again ??
How about it ? Are you confident enough to make this bet ?
I’ll go in on that…. I have nightmares every night about this trade scenario simply because I’m reminded of it 10 times a day lol
Since you admitted that Bosh could end up with NYK, what do you think would be a fair trade .. or do you think there is 3-way trade brewing..???
Before I bet, I want to hear your trade scenario first.
Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison for Bosh and Calderon – believe it. So obvious. Feeeelings. Honker.
Brain Colangelo says: “I masturbate for Gilbert Arenas and Antwan Jamison for Bosh … ooooh yeeeeah.”
It could involve other players , draft picks and …. My bet has nothing to do with other trade scenarios. You have been coming here for past month, preaching this bogus and unreal trade of LEE, Galinari and Daro for Bosh and I am making a bet that this trade will never happen !!!
So Are you man enough to take the bet or NOT?
Creative and homophobic. Is there a limit to your talent?
Actually that would be Homoerotic… get your facts straight! lol
Both.
I will put all of these trade rumors to rest. How?
By presenting a better one! lol…
Jose and Evans for Hinrich and Tyrus.
Bulls get playmaking and we get a big (read: BIG) defensive boost.
Maybe in some perfect world – but they have that Rose guy…. They would much prefer trading those 2 for a starting PF with decent offence..
“Let me Leave you with one further question:
How many people here think this team will perform better with us bringing better players in ( No Super stars like Lebron or Wade but just better players)?”
Talent never hurts, but bringing in talent at the expense of chemistry does. So it cant hurt to trade Bellinelli for Kevin Martin… but it could be VERY beneficial, under the right circumstances, to bring in a veteran presence that has the respect of the players and can bring some leadership and/or lead by example. For example – trading a combination of non-rotational scrubs or even replacing one rotational player with a Vet of similar skill like Raja Bell (too bad he’s out till March) etc or a defensive minded vet that still has enough talent to play some minutes and can somewhat fit our needs/weaknesses…
Right now the best comparison that this team has is it’s alot like Denver before they got Billups…. Take that how you wish.
imagine a backcourt of Trevor Ariza and Demar Derozan, and upfront you get Bosh and Bargnani…man this team would be deadly, but yeah i guess it’s all fantasy now
Colangelo said ariza didn’t want to come to TO
Only desperate scrubs and those who get undeserved max money contracts(e.g. Hedo) will come to Toronto … so obvious.
well so much for that – I would think that little “attempted season ending injury” might tend to cause chemistry issues between the two haha
every writer on this site dickrides bosh and blames bargs for his shortcomings.
bosh is an elite player. even kobe couldn’t do much when he was surrounded by scrubs. bargnani is a complimentary player and a mystery that may turn out to be decent (lets hope) but if you’re expecting him to be anything more than a keith van horn then please tell me what youre smoking cause i could use some of that. bargs has yet to demonstrate consistency or versatility like how he was advertised by colangelo, so i’m not sure why people get so worked up and offended when someone calls him out. is it not even slightly merited? what exactly has bosh done to get criticsm? have a couple of bad games? last i checked he was still getting to the line more than any other pf in the league and was averaging top 5 in offensive boards.
i’d hate to make this a bosh vs bargs issue because its not that. to compare the two is laughable and not even a real discussion. they’re different players, different positions, different styles. one is jordan and the other is supposed to be pippen but is currently more like a steve kerr.
Amen 100% agree with you
Second that. Well said.
ROTD.
there is nothing wrong with criticizing Bargs or calling him out…. but when it is done after every game, regardless of whether he played well or not, it gets extremely tiring.
And again its not a matter of Bosh Vs Bargs or a comparison between them. But when Bargs gets attacked for “bad defense” while Bosh is doing the EXACT SAME thing… or worse Bargs does a solid job and then gets accused of playing bad D.
“what exactly has bosh done to get criticsm”
not played D. And when your team is bad defensively, and he is as much of the problem as he is the solution, he deserves criticsm just as much as anyone else.
Bosh is a better defender.
Even on rotations alone there is not much to debate.
Not a lock-down guy obviously but clearly a better defender.
I had to look up to see who this Steve Kerr was , his career stats are :
PPG=6.0
Rb =1.2
ASS=1.8
It seems he was a good shooter though , but being a good shooter and averaging
6 points per game and 1.2 rebounds and likening him to Bargnani show to me that a lot of morons are pervading this fine blog.
“First up, I’m sick of the fans who are trying to figure out who had the less shitty game – Bosh or Bargnani. Does it really matter?”
I don’t think anyone including myself was trying to debate which one is better. What we were pointing out were the weaknesses and shortcomings of Chris Bosh. Every time I posted a critique of Chris Bosh, someone would counter with a jab on Barg. That also included people from RR. Why do they keep doing it? I am not supporting any one player but want the media to be fair to all the players and praise and criticize them in a fair way.
How can you change the opinion of so many by a single line in the media. It is quite easy (I am not saying it is a orchestrated). Include a single criticism of bargnani’s defense and keep repeating it (This happens more than it should)throughout the media (including blogs) and soon people start to accept it as a fact. Even when we watch a game and Barg commits a mistake, we chastise him for that mistake because of that single line has been imprinted into our memory over and over again. If you don’t believe me. Go over the last one month of articles in blogs and media and see for yourself that he is usually singled out. I am not saying that you should stop criticizing Barg but be fair in your critique to all the players on the team including our “franchise player”.
I posted about the error in rebounding. The funny part about the article is that the word one was in capital bold letters (ONE). He was trying to make point(emphasize) but the number was incorrect. I was questioning the standard of journalism. He did not critique anyone else on defense? Why not? As I posted, Andrea rebounding number was terrible in the game.
We hope that RR will adopt and implement a fair practice in their critique for all raptor players. Until that happens, I think you will see the critique of Chris Bosh to increase over time to create a fair and just balance.
a FAIR practice would mean that everyone is critiqued based on their ability rather than assume that each player should be critiqued equally. So technically “fair” would mean something like complaining about POB, Banks, Pops and Wright about 75% of the time, Weems, Johnson, Belinelli, Rasho, Evans and Derozan about 12% of the time, Calderon, Jack, Bargnani and Turkoglu about 7% of the time and Bosh about 1% of the time….
If you haven’t payed attention to the last few seasons – let me point out a few things. Bosh is a top 10 player (probably closer to top five this season). Turk and Bargs are roughly around the top 40-50 players (think about how many teams would they be the best player), Jack and Jose are about top 50-100, Derozan + bench rotation is top 100-250, and the last group is definately the bottom 100 players currently under contract. This roster is composed of players that are ANYTHING but equal, and to pretend they are for the sake of balance is a joke.
“Every time I posted a critique of Chris Bosh, someone would counter with a jab on Barg.” The problem with your criticism is that you rarely, if ever, follow your own advice. EVERY time someone makes a jab at Bargs you counter with a similar refrain: “What about our franchise player, yada yada…”
The fact is: If 100 people make a post criticizing Bargs based on what they actually viewed during a game, then there is probably some validity to their collective comments.
RR provides, in my opinion, fair critique if all raptor players. People making comments do not have to be held to that same standard.
Hey Raptor fans,guess what…Nowitzki had only 6 rebounds in 46 minutes…what a piece of shit, and we thought we had it bad with Bargs. Mind you he had 36 points but does he suck shit or what…6 fucking rebounds…and I bet a few just fell into his lap…Dallas would probably trade this slug for Amir Johnson.
Johnson for Dirk
The Raptors could then field this starting lineup
An American
A Turk
A German
A Spaniard
An Italian
Holy shit…Bynum had 4 rebounds in 31 minutes…Okur had 5 in 37 minutes…f#cking losers…I’m glad were not stuck we these crappy players or we’d be really bad!
Pau Gasol has had 40 rebounds in the last 2 games.
Now here is a trade I could live with
Bargnani for Pau or Marc Gasol.
Though I would prefer Marc only because he is 4 or so years younger
Buddy, watch the language, please. Thanks.
No problem…my apologies.
To me the whole Bosh/Bargnani issue keeps coming up because the Raptors are trying to accomplish something most teams don’t, having their centre and PF as the two best offensive players on the team. Usually you have a dominant big matched with a dominant wing or guard (i.e. Nash-Amare). I personally just don’t see trying to have two young dominant bigs out there at the same time as a workable solution(yeah I know Robinson-Duncan was great, but that was the youngster slowly taking over from the vet). Bargnani gets slammed for not producing in the paint, but is always having to clear out as Bosh is establishing low post position and demanding the ball…they are fighting for space and touches versus complimenting one another. Honestly, name another team employing two bigs to be the two main options on offense? Only one close is LA with Bynum and Gasol, but they have a guy named Kobe to make it all work. I think they should try running a few more plays through Bargs as CB is better at getting those garbage points by cleaning up the glass than Bargs is. There needs to be more balance with these two.
I think the bigger problem is having your best rebounder (by far) also being the best player on the team (by far). Unless he’s in the restricted area when he takes that shot, you cant make use of his rebounding abilities… I imagine the idea BC had with the roster this year is to spread out the shot attempts more evenly and take attempts away from Bosh to see him dominate the boards (think Amare in Pheonix), but since everyone else has effectively shit the bed this season on both ends of the court, its hard to knock the guy for trying to do everything when his teamates are far from effective collectively.
That Balance will only be found if Bargs steps off of the 3 point line and goes inside. Who actually thinks he doesnt go into the paint because Bosh is already there demanding the ball?
If you watched the early games of the season an emphasis was placed on getting Bargs involved “within” the paint first before he takes his game outside. To be fair to him, he has at least tried to move to the foul line area. He just needs to do it more.
It`s a hostile crowd out there these days … Good thing the Leafs are doing well, and easing the pain for some of the Duel Citizens. While on the topic of hockey, I have to say, despite his many talents, Ovechkin is a dirty player. Sidney he will never be.
Hockey aside – one gets enough with the sports channels – when it comes to the Raptors, it`s been a difficult 25 games. As time drags on, doubt looms bigger.
Is 25 enough to change things – personnel that is? Are Rap town hall meetings only good for 96 hours, at which time the players memories self-destruct. Should they have these meetings before every 3rd game? Can you overdo meetings?
Lots of questions, and we still haven’t gotten to the main Nut & Bolts question.
If Plan A isn’t working, what’s Plan B. I know Brian is an honest sort of guy, but I can’t imagine getting an answer from him, so the next best thing to do, is to DECIDE WHAT HE SHOULD BE DOING.
I still find it hard to make significant personnel moves. Maybe let Pops go and pick up a PG – someone who might be better than Mr. Banks.
Mostly though, I’m curious to know what Plan B entails? What is it?
At this point in time, the Raptors are in 9th place. Any improvement – I can’t imagine worse play – and the Raptor should make the play-offs. I’d admit I hoped for 6th, but hey …. I wasn’t alone.
Would I be happy if they only have one play-off series? I’d like 2, but one will do (hack … Leaf virus). No matter how 2009-10 season goes, one thing will be over. Either Bosh is here, or he’s not.
If he’s here, will 130 million be a stranglehold on the team. After the Washington-Leaf game, one of the reports (in comparing the NHL cap to the NBA cap) said the NBA cap may be reduced by 5 million dollars.
That’s not a good thing. It would be like taking Jack out of the picture, while paying for Lebron. Granted, the max will be reduced (I think – still learning the ifs, and what ifs). I can only hope Brian is paying attention to all that. I’m sure the guy who came up with the 3 way trade concept, knows how the numbers will hit.
As sad as it is to say, money has become a more influential commodity in basketball. Players want more than they’re worth, while teams became business operations. And boring. For all the frustration that Harold Ballard created, he was never boring. And he did take chances.
In this Plan B, or C, or simply Plan Bosh, what exactly do we want back? What do we need, sans Bosh?
Whether it`s Plan B, or C, whatever the answer to winning is, there is one question I have been wanting to ask. What would this team be like, if Barney & Bosh liked each other?
A lot of people might say there`s no tension between the two, and maybe there isn`t. But watching so many games, and rarely seeing a camaraderie between the two, I find them distant. If that’s true, then it becomes part of the equation for BC, and his cap buddy.
.
i think your question at the end is key. a step further. jose. bargs. bosh. none of them genuinely like either of the other two. this is our core.
We don’t have to worry about Bosh hamstringing us with a 130 million dollar chokehold (weird) because theres no way he stays in this mess. There are teams out there who can sign him and are way better, so he’s done here. It would take a miracle and then some for him to re-sign at this point.
As to the leafs, if we can sneak in at 8th, we have Washington’s number for some reason this year, so who knows, maybe we could crack the second round.
THe disconnect is not due to personality clashes. It is all about basketball. Bargs is just learning how to play to his strengths within the offense. Bosh already knows how to do this as the schemes have been drawn up around him for some time.
When Bargs begins to be more consistent – not just offensively – they will both be as dangerous as can be. That or one (B____) will get shipped out and the team will suffer. It is endemic on both to find ways to work together on the court.
They can sing Christmas carols or Kumbaya together after practice.
Like many of us on RR, I’ve been a long time, die-hard raptor fan. But this by far has been the most disappointing team out of all of them. I don’t know if I’m getting older and that I have other distractions now, but I’m at a point where I don’t want to ‘waste my time’ watching the raptors. I feel this sentiment is growing out there for the casual fan and more disconcerting ,the folks that post comments on this site.
Coaching is obviously an issue and I wish Triana would pull the trigger on the line up change that he hinted at….If I was to make a move…
The starting line up needs some change. It is too offensive focussed, leaving no punch off the bench.
Proposed starting line up:
Jack, Wright, Bosh, Turk, Bargnani
This line up helps somewhat resolve the on the ball wing defense which seems to be the main reason why the team concept breaks down in the first place. Advise Wright to ‘know his role’ and play stopper ONLY.
Moving Calderon and DD to the bench means they’re playing bench players and we should have an advantage there offensively. Evans and Amir are solid in the front court to mitigate any shortcomings in the backcourt defensively.
Lastly, I’d sub more liberally, offense to defense. Why wait until the end of game/late game situations. We all know Bargs is a liability on D. Move him in and out of the lineup with Reggie and Amir throughout the entire game.
Anyways, I’ll give this team (and myself) to the end of Jan; if they’re nowhere close to 8th, you can mail this baby in…Bosh will be gone (to Miami) and at least Maurizio gets the axe, if not BC.
“We all know Bargs is a liability on D. Move him in and out of the lineup with Reggie and Amir throughout the entire game.”
I don’t agree with that statement whatsoever. What happened in the Bucks game when barg did not play. We were abused repeatedly at the defensive end. Let me guess it was because the suit colour of Bargnani was irritating our franchise player and the energizer bunny (Amir).
In the Atlanta game, Barg sits down and with Bosh and Amir the Hawks go on a run. Let me guess it was barg’s fault for not cheering enough from the sidelines.
Keep blaming it on bargnani.
WE ALL KNOW that is not true……LOL
C’mon, ok being a die-hard fan, but we can’t blind ourselves, can’t we?
Wright starting? He hasn’t shown anything yet, keeps firing stupid Js, not as good on defence as we thought, and a very big mouth with no moral power. And Jack isn’t doing any better than Calderon (who’s out BTW, so problem solved temporarily). Bosh and Bargs are not the core of our problem, even though both are sub-average defenders…but there’s is no way you can improve by playing Amir, who will kill you on offense.
The problem is that there is no real alternative to our starting five, so we have to deal with that.
Get more from our bench, get a lot more on defence from our starters. Sounds simple, but is our coaching staff able to pull that out under growing pressure? Not so sure anymore.
Nobody on this team has done less than Wright – based on his play he doesn’t deserve to play at all however perhaps maybe starting him is a last gasp effort to get something out of him – maybe that is why he started in Dallas last year?
the one thing I can see with this is he has still played solid D (atelast giving hard fouls, staying up on his man and trying to take charges)… its just his offense has been horrendous. Maybe playing with the first unit and not getting the ball in his hands would be just the ticket for him. And he can be responsible for trying to wear out (be aggresive on D, front, body, hack, irratate etc) his check
He may feel obligated coming off the bench to provide some offense and trying to get the team going.
I also don’t mind the idea of Jose with the 2nd unit adding a level of control to what has been a very turnover prone bench, DD has been much more effective with Jose… and Jack has played his best ball with the starting unit.
Just possibilities.
Wright will not feel obligated to provide some offence…his problem is his head. looking at his swagger, and the fact he speaks out all the time when he’s been the worst player on the team shows his problem is he actually believes he’s an offensive force. He’s actually a piece of garbage.
“Lastly, I’d sub more liberally, offense to defense. Why wait until the end of game/late game situations. We all know Bargs is a liability on D. Move him in and out of the lineup with Reggie and Amir throughout the entire game.”
That may be one of the worst basketball ideas I’ve ever heard. This is not hockey. Anyone who’s played basketball knows players need to get in the rythm and flow of a game both ways.
Also Bargs is not a liability on defense on this team…They all pretty much stink and he’s actually one of their better defenders. The problem besides attitude and effort has been coaching. Also there may also be something to the fact that it does not appear Bosh and Bargs are pals…mind you the only pals Bosh has seemed to make are the ones who suck up to him. Ego may have something to do with that.
Look: Bargs is not a liability as a man-to-man defender. He IS a liability when he has to switch/rotate or help. This is a recognition problem.
Wright is not a starter. Period. That he was on Dallas speaks to how well that team was put together. Wright hardly took any shots and knew that if he did he would be benched (which he is now). If you have Dirk, Howard and Terry – you better give up the ball. On our team he has to recognize that his shot comes AFTER Bosh, Bargs, Turk, Jose.
Just wanted to say.. I was struggling on my NBA 10 basketball video game as I wasnt getting enough bench production once my starters had to take a rest. I decided to have my best player Bosh come off of the bench instead of starting and I am now on a big winning streak. :)
Bosh, Jack, and Belinelli have a connection. No joke.. lol
I’ve given up on this team and organization as a whole. Much as I was a fan of the Nash-D’Antoni Suns, the team has not improved since Colangelo arrived and is no closer to being a quality team and organization than it was when he came. Love to be wrong but it’s going to take quite a lot to win me back.
I don’t see why the rest of you are still talking about tinkering. This is the same result we fans have been getting the past 3 years. Whatever plan there was is not working. It’s time for a new one and I think anyone who throws money at this team while we wait for a new plan (whether with this GM or another) if being very foolish. Much as I would like to support pro basketball in Toronto, I can’t support this organization anymore. I’m jumping off the bandwagon and am going to be very wary jumping back on.
Kudos to Arsenalist and the others for their efforts. Hopefully theirs and hard-core fans’ efforts/enthusiasm get rewarded eventually.
*is (not if) being very foolish*
I so wish we hired Avery Johnson… sigh…
People are not wondering who is worse Bosh or Bargs. These two are clearly our best players at this point. Still when you want to compare the play of one of them, the other is the closest comparison inside the team, so often they do get compared even if they have totally different games and its obvious Bosh is a better player overall at this point.
But looking at things from three perspectives, its clear to me that either of them is not the main problem as they are pretty good front court duo.
Rebounding:
Andrea gets a lot of bad rap for not rebounding enough. You cant deny it would be nice to see him get a few more, but all in all these two combine enough rebounds for starting frontcourt. The most problems they have are against smaller and quicker guys that are active on offensive rebound (like Atlanta). But you cant be master of everything.
Offense:
Scoring wise Bosh is 9th in league and AB is sixth within centers. These two have very different games and when they mix it up, they might be the best offensive front court in the league.
Defense:
This is the area where we as a team struggle the most. Our bigs are ok-good individual defenders against other big guys. Both of them can wrestle underneath. AB has also shown lately that he can guard smaller guys and force them into jump shots. But when it comes to team defense these two are not too good and certainly not good enought to make up for the other deficiencies our team has. Bosh is brutal on defending pick’n'roll. Bargs is slightly better. Neither of them is really good at helping, but Bargs makes more bad mistakes that lead to open shots. Bosh gets some weak side help block, but not enough to make him actually good at it. But all in all, I dont think these two are the problem. They can keep their guys under check most times. They just arent good enough to make up for other guys being so bad. Maybe we could switch for a defensive big man, but there are not many that are good enough to make up all the offense we would lose.
Again Im not trying to compare these two here. Im trying to point out, these guys aint the problem we have. Some one would like Bosh to be more of a leader or better passer and some one would like Andrea to grab twice the rebounds he does or be more consistent, but these guys just aint perfect, and I think its not fair to expect that from them. Still its ok to critisize them after a bad game. I’d just like to see fair and balanced critisism. A lot of people seem to take sides with these two (the bloggers on this site e.g. make no attempt to hide which side they are on). I try not to. I see faults in both players, but also some pretty damn good players who complement each other quit well. On of them is top-10 player in the league and the other is not far from being an allstar material (he isnt right now to be clear).
“Magic Johnson said he believes LeBron James will decide to leave Cleveland to play for the Knicks — but urges Knicks team president Donnie Walsh to lure “The King” by first signing a marquee free agent such as Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudemire.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/magic_king_dom_tfZtmYakE1aDUb5hBcTkTK#ixzz0ZaeR5cNZ
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I can’t believe someone would post that the team hasn’t improved since BC took over (division title, remember?), I guess a lot of people on here have selective memory. That being said, I think BC’s worst move was Triano’s contract extension. You put together your best team on paper (again) and figure a rookie head coach is the best option to bring 9 new players together? Guess having to pay for the dearly departed Smitch has lingering effects….
I think this team could amount to something with a fiery coach that demands respect/effort and has the resume to get it…Triano is a great PR move, but beyond that has clearly shown that he can not adapt to changes or has any sort of plan B for his already implemented strategies. Nothing wrong with trying to instill a philosophy, but if it is not working (clearly its not), then you need to be able to make some changes, to at least try to stop the bleeding. If nothing else, it shows a level of competence in accepting the fact that something is wrong. This guy keeps re-enforcing that everything is great, and we just need to try harder….and who’s job is it to get the team to do that anyway? Oh yeah, I forgot, its the millionaire players, they are always self motivated, right?
We have invested too much into this core (Bosh, Bargs, Turk, Calderon), and realistically, outside of Bosh, they are basically locked in for the next 3-5 yrs (name me the GM that would trade for Turk/Bargs/Calderon given their performance and contract?), so maybe a coaching change would help inject some much needed change into the franchise? Oh wait, we could promote Ivaroni, the defensive genius! Lol!
“Feelings can be confusing”…???!!!!
Feelings are for women, children and tribal honking fans … not for aficionados of the game of basketball … we just see it as it is and cope.
didn’t you say the Raps would get less than 3 wins or something? If they did, you would never post again?
Do you ever live up to your mouth, or are you always full of it?
I feel the need to repeat this:
This team is alot like Denver before they got Billups…