On a night where Kobe broke his finger; he manned up, chipped in 20/5/5 and paced the Lakers for their 11th win in a row, the Raptors showed little of anything while being thumped by the Hawks, again. I thought it was Groundhogs day. Except this time, no, it was groundhogs day.
I accept that the Hawks are a better team then us. I accept that the Raptors needed to play a perfect game to beat them. I accept the loss, but I don’t accept the manner in which they lost. As they are currently constructed, this isn’t a team, it is a collection of dudes who can play basketball (they can shoot and pass and such). It’s time for an intervention, we should sit the franchise down and read them the riot act. I’ll start…
Dear Raptors,
You have continually hurt me. From 1995, you have been an important part of my life. Those formative years after you were just born, you were so cute. You had a little mouse who wasn’t welcome at first, but earned a spot in our hearts. Scrappy those teams were. We were just happy to be in the NBA, but you didn’t disappoint, you kept getting better. Trades, drafts, signings. You became a team we were proud to cheer.
You eventually made the playoffs, even got to within one shot of beating the Sixers in game 7 to reach the Eastern Conference finals, but it went down hill. You let your franchise player go bad. You watched as this organization sank to new depths. There was a death rattle where you were Atlantic champions, but that didn’t last long at all.
Your addiction to money has made it hard to support you. Sure you put together enough talent to fool the casual fan. But many of us know better. I’m sick of you taking all my money, time, energy, and giving nothing in return. The style of play you should be worried about is winning, but you are clinging to a system that only worked in Phoenix.
Are you so stubborn that you can’t admit your mistakes, ask for help and forgiveness and go about making things right? Have we not earned that right after holding your head up over the bowl after so many nights of excess and shame? You need to do something, or risk losing me to the Blazers (who need a team blog).
- Sam (aka Raps Fan)
The Raptors started the 1st quarter strong, Turkoglu showed why he got that deal: he was all over the court, passing, shooting, pulling down boards 3pts 5rebs 4ast in 4 minutes of play. Bargnani was on, he was hitting his shots and getting to the line. Bosh was the Hawks focus again, but he contributed 6pts 3rebs. The Raptors built an 18-10 lead, and looked like they were really competing, and could pull this one out. Then the Hawks went on 19-9 run to end the 1st (3 of those 9 were a running hail mary by Antoine Wright as the quarter was running out). The Hawks started the 2nd on a 13-6 run before Triano thought it prudent to call a timeout (at the 8:44 mark), but it was little too late, it was all academic from there – the game had already been conceded. I spent the rest of the night answering questions about Bosh on ESPN.
Some thoughts:
Jay: Hey buddy :) Jose: Don’t talk to me puto!Calderon
This is the second year in a row where the guy has been injured, and was rushed back prematurely, only to get further injured. We can all agree the Raptors are better with him in the lineup, but why risk him being out for more games then necessary if we only rested him to begin with? What’s worse is that the Raptors were going to lose with or without him against the Hawks, wtf was Triano thinking?
Bargnani
The guy is a great scorer, but he does nothing else. He grabbed ONE rebound in the first half, and grabbed 2 more during garbage time in the 4th. 9pts in the first quarter, but disappeared the rest of the game. He scored 3 more points then Bosh on 5 more shots.I mean, I like the guy, but even when he’s engaged and scoring, he does little else. What happened to the defense we’ve been hearing about all week? Bosh wasn’t much better, but at least he contributed in other ways (grabbed rebounds and
Triano
The Hawks did exactly the same thing to us as the last game, and you had no answers. You knew what was coming, and did nothing about it. What is it you exactly do when you watch the game video? What is it you exactly write down on that clipboard of yours? What do those assistant coaches do other then call, run and faciliate meetings you should have been on top of? Why the hell do you only play DeMar 3 minutes in the 4th quarter of a blowout game? What exactly is your plan for the rest of the season if Colangelo doesn’t shake stuff up? Also, can you do something about Antoine Wright. The guy is out of control. He is Jamario Moon incarnate. Takes horrible shots at horrible times with the same horrible results. FFS!
We have lost by a combined 57 points to the Hawks over the last two games. The best part: there are two more games against them this season to push that discrepancy to 100. We’re going to need another team meeting before tomorrow, with Houston, Miamia and Orlando all coming up in a row. This team has fully reverted to pre-team meeting effort levels, there may be no relief until Friday when we host the Nets (which has the potential to be a disaster of its own).
132 Raps
Bargs played solid defense yesterday… forced his man to take shots all game (even when he had to switch onto Johnson). Had a real tough assignment in Smith and prevented him from getting to the bucket, forced him, with the exception of a few fast break points, to only take jumpers.
Seriously this whole defense is Bargs fault is ludicrous. A write up on Bargs and all the criticism Bosh gets is “it wasn’t much better”. Bosh grabs a couple more boards and he contributed in “other way”. Bargs was our offensive threat… if it wasn’t for him this game would have been another 40 point embarassment.
Bargs outplayed Bosh in every aspect of this game except on the boards. How about you give him a break for once.
Bargs and Bosh both played poor defense yesterday. There was nothing solid about giving up 44 points in the paint.
If they both played poorly than how come only one player (Bargnani) is being singled out in the recap of the Hawks game. No mention of the FIVE turnovers by Bosh.
Why not? It did not effect the game.
Bosh: 36min 14pts 10rebs 3ast 5tos (6-10 from the floor)
Bargnani: 36min 17pts 3rebs 1ast 0tos (7-15 from the floor)
Bosh was the FOCUS of the Hawks defense. They collapsed on him when he touched the ball, they fronted him, they sent a double at him. When he threw the ball out of the double, good things happened. When he shot the ball, good things happened. When he rebounded the ball, good things happened.
Bargnani scored 17pts, and played good defense. Sure he didn’t protect the ball, but he didn’t go out and get it either. He did absolutely nothing other then shoot the ball, what’s so great about that?
Who had a better game?
They were both non-factors last night
So you are saying all anyone has to do to disrupt Bosh, force him into 5 TO and keep him to 14 points is to put a double team on him? (Unfortunately that has been true historically) This is supposed to be our $20 million per season player!
Bargs is just the “complementary” piece here – from what everyone is saying, including his contract for 1/2 of what Bosh will be getting.
And did you miss Bargs holding off Josh Smith 1 on 1 several times?
Why do you think they go after Bosh anyway? 1) it works, 2) it does hurt his offense, that’s the mark of good coaching! Sometime the Raps seem to be missing.
You are on a huge stretch to say anybody on the Raps had a Better Game. But the 3 guys with the 13 TO sure helped out the Hawks!
Have to say I’m going with Hardcore Raps on this one!
Who steps up when Bosh gets double teamed? The guy has wave upon wave of players thrown at him, and no one steps up to do anything and it’s his fault? Seriously? NO ONE played well last night, and the only guy who the best all around game gets the blame? Come on Steve, give me a break.
Thats true but it ignores some of the details of the game. Bargs was far from perfect but atleast he was able to hold his main check to 25% shooting by preventing him from getting to the bucket.
That guy ofcourse being the athletic, fast, high flying Josh Smith. Give Bargs some respect for that.
He did a good job on Smith, but he didn’t prevent Smith from grabbing rebounds. Also, a note on Smith, 5 of his missed shots were jumpers. All his points scored were in the paint, check the shot chart.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=291211028
I love the shot charts. But did Josh Smith score all those points in the paint when Barg was guarding him.
Please note I am not defending Barg as the great defender. I think he has a long way to go before we say that. At least I am fair in my criticism.
Everytime I mention the FIVE turnovers caused by Bosh, you discuss Barg.
Why?
“He did a good job on Smith”
and here I thought Bargs did “nothing else”…. silly me.
He scored 3 buckets in the paint (2 of those buckets on fast breaks from turnovers….. none of them Bargs turnovers). Bargs forced him to take shots because he couldn’t get by him…. thats EXACTLY what a defender is supposed to be doing.
Bargs isn’t winning any awards for his D, but lets look at our top talent and what he isn’t providing before we go criticize the other guys first.
Smith was 3-12. So he was 3-7 on non-jumpers? Sounds like good defence…
if more raptor players could guard their position 1-on-1 as well as bargnani the defense might not be so horrendous.
lol you are ignoring that he could not beat Bargs so he took those jumpers instead… that is good D.
man this must be a joke… that was just sad statement.
it was sarcasm. nba players generally score on non-jumpers.
my apologies
How come the defense did not step up in the game against the Bucks. Bargnani was not plying but the same results.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Bosh had five turnovers. It had no effect on the game.
Hell just say it Andra is better than Bosh. Chris Bosh is holding the team back, just look at what he’s done to Turk’ game Jose was well on his way to becoming an allstar, did you see that pole on the front page what does it say ?
I never said that Andrea is better than Bosh or he is holding the team back.
Chris Bosh at this time is the best player on the raptors. I have said that in all my posts.
But to keep blaming bargnani for all the team problems without ever criticizing our franchise player is ridiculous. So you are going to use an unscientific poll on RR that can easily be manipulated by erasing their stored cookie on your computer, deleting cache on your own computer and masking your IP address is hilarious.
correction, part of the problem ? Everyone on this site overlooks all his mistakes and blames Bosh, those shots are part of the reason why Turk is here, as for that poll if anyone is doing that, I’m done.
Did I read correctly that everyone one this site overlooks AB’s mistakes and blames Bosh? Have you ever read a single game recap from this site? All the bloggers here seem to give Bosh a get out of jail card on anything as he is our best player and gets nice stat lines. On the other hand they throw mud at Bargs even when he plays well.
Dont get me wrong, Bosh is a better player and AB has lots of faults and often isnt bringing what we need him to bring, but if this site is biased, its certainly not in AB’s favor.
I don’t think anyone here thinks Bargs is better than Bosh. There is just so much of a love-fest for him (or maybe the so called ‘fear’ that we will “drive him out of town”) that his weaknesses are ignored. While with Bargs there is such a hate-fest that even when he is playing well he still gets blamed for the game.
Maybe there’s a love-fest because he’s a top NBA talent and the team would be the Nets without him. Actually worse than the Nets I bet.
I rarely hate on Bargs, but I find there to be way too much Bosh criticism (in the comments at least). Always blaming him for not being a leader, not being clutch, being selfish (that one absolutely stuns me). But nobody else hears those criticisms. Why isn’t Jose taking flak for not being a leader, or Bargs for not scoring when it’s needed? I understand the ‘he’s the best player, he should be doing that stuff’ argument. I just don’t know why he should be the ONLY one doing it, why he’s singled out.
For last night, Bosh was the focus of the ATL defense. He took what was available, and it wasn’t enough. Bosh allowed his team to win by playing 4 on 3, and they couldn’t.
I actually don’t think the bigs’ defense was that bad overall. Bargs played admirably when switched on the ball, Horford made some tough shots.
Chris Bosh is rarely criticized in blogs and media in Toronto. Both Calderon and bargnani are usually singled out and sometimes unfairly criticized. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. I agree that ALL the players should be praised and criticized in a fair way.
Rap of the day for Macy!
.
Macy,
Bosh is the better player. But for a max guy, I want a leader. And Bosh is no leader. When he steps up that part of his game, more fans will come his way.
I also get tired of this double double experience, that is continually raved about. While I don’t think Chris is that type of guy (I’m doing this for my new contract), my gut just doesn’t feel right about this.
What I want (it goes without saying), is for the Raps to win. And I’d like to see CB gather HIS team to that goal. As for Jose, I’m not sure what to think right now – I was all for retaining him, and dumping TJ. In hindsight, it’s still the right choice – TJ can stay with the Pacers. Just not sure about going so long term with JC.
.
Macy,
Forgot one point.
[ "Maybe there’s a love-fest because he’s a top NBA talent and the team would be the Nets without him. Actually worse than the Nets I bet."]
For 16 million, I’d say there are plenty of reasons we’ll never be the Nets.
.
confusedraptorfan: the Hawks were focusing on Bosh every time he touched the ball. if you want to talk stats, how about it took Bargnani 5 more shots to score 3 more points then Bosh? Think that had an affect on the game? Bargnani protected the all better, absolutely, but he was camped out on the perimeter. Bosh was in the thick of things all night. Bosh doesn’t getting a pass either, he didn’t have a great game, but he had a better all around one. When your center grabs 3 rebounds (two of which were against the hawks bench who was missing joe smith), it is a travesty.
I agree it was terrible that barg only grabbed three rebounds. He is a terrible rebounder at this stage of his career. Will he improve, have no idea. Bargnani took only two three pointers and actually was moving around quite a bit in this game (someone posted in the roll call asking why barg was moving around so much).
But at least I am fair in my comments. You have completely ignored the FIVE turnovers by Bosh. The problem you have is you are always trying to compare him to Bargnani. Bargnani is not the franchise player.
In the follow-up game after being beaten badly by the Hawks, I expected our max, elite and franchise player to lead by example and deliver. I did not think they would win but I expected him to play with heart
So every time we discuss Bosh are we also going to discuss bargnani.
Why does this forum keep doing this?
The reason I only talk about Bosh is because you only seem to care about the 5 turnovers that Bosh, so lets talk about those turnovers…
5 turnovers in one game is terrible, but…
- one of them came 15 seconds into the game, where he was tangled up
- One of them was offensive goaltending, which was a suspect call
- The Hawks didn’t score off of any of the turnovers
So yea, while he did have 5 turn overs, they are only a sore spot on the box score, and did not affect the score whatsover.
If I were you, I’d be more pissed about Bosh watching Jeff Teague lay it up after he blew by Jack. Bosh literally did nothing.
I thought hanging on the rim while the ball was in the cylinder above the basket defined offensive goal-tending/interference?
In terms of turnovers, it was Beli’s 3 TO to start the 2nd and Jack’s 3 TO in the 3rd that really sucked the life out of the Raps. (Smith’s blocks didn’t help much either)
It looked like Teague was blowing by Jack because no one cared. Sad.
Bargs should’ve poked Smith in the eye to start every quarter – that was the most effective defensive play the Raps made all game! lol
Wow that arguement ended abruptly.
“Also, can you do something about Antoine Wright. The guy is out of control. He is Jamario Moon incarnate. Takes horrible shots at horrible times with the same horrible results.”
I couldn’t agree more! The fact that Wright has been doing the same thing for almost 1/3 of the season and continues to get away with it speaks volumes about the lack of discipline and team focus that the coach is (not) able to instill. To me, a coach should hold the players accountable for effort and force them to play smart, team basketball. Triano doesn’t do either. He makes excuses for their lack of effort in media interviews, and clearly doesn’t hold them accountable for playing smart team b-ball. This year’s team and last year’s both lack effort on a consistent basis, and they lack discipline. These two things alone should be enough to tell Colangelo that he needs a new coach. This team is a joke right now and it’s not due to lack of talent or the pieces not fitting together.
So far, Wright is Joey Graham without his shooting touch! (ouch)
No no no… he’s Jamario Moon With below average athleticism….
Where the F is the team that beat the Cavs on opening night?????????
I totally hear you.
The crowd had a big part in that win though.
They were still at the honeymoon stages – now we’re at the have 4 screaming kids, balding/letting themselves go/unemployed watching Ricki Lake reruns stages….
Looks like I took off another good night not to watch a Raptors last night. :(
Worse night to be at the game.
No life from the team.
And I hate the booing!
I think a major problem here is being overlooked.
The Hawks got way too many fast break baskets.
Fast break baskets usually result because of a bad shot.
When shooters shoot unless it is a dunk they have to also consider where their teammates are on the floor.
The Raptors took way too many shots last night with an unbalanced offense thereby resulting on easy fast break baskets by the Hawks.
For example during that wipe out stretch starting when the second unit came in during the later part of the first quarter, too many shots were taken when the Raptors did not even have anyone in position to possibly grab an offensive rebound or at least contest for the rebound.
Horrible floor balance last night by the second unit.
A good observation. Notice how they (and the good ones) regardless of a an opponent miss or make…. have a quick first pass either to the half court or their pg takes off and gets downcourt to the offensive zone before laggard teams like the Raps have not fully setup. Like playing 5 against 4 most of the game.
You gotta punish them for leaking and get the ORB’s…. but this isnt that kinda team
Dominique Wilkins was calling out the raptors as a jump shooting only team and telling them to take it inside. Maybe we should see if he wants to pick up a coaching job.
Two things you said in this article that resonated with me.
“This isn’t a team”. Couldln’t agree more. Sadly, I went to the game last night, and all I could keep thinking was, “does this collection of players have any plan whatsoever?”. Way too much one on one play. So many times Raptors like Bellinelli would drive with their heads down and turn the ball over.
“Bosh wasn’t much better”….in fact he was worse, much worse. Chris Bosh is a below average defender. How many times did he concede a drive in the paint for an easy layup. I counted at least 7 or 8 times. They made Jeff Teague look like an all-star.
Yes Turkoglu was good in the first quarter, but he was terrible the rest of the game…when it mattered. He looks disinterested and by the fourth quarter I was yelling at him the whole time. Five more years of this shit…we need someone to light a fire under this guys ass and Triano isn’t doing a good job so far.
The only player who showed any willingness to compete from my vantage point was Sonny Weems, and by then it was too late.
What a disgusting performance.
I had a conversation with a friend on the way home about trading Joaquim Noah for Bargnani straight up..just one of those conversations. He thought i was crazy for suggesting it, because, like everyone he is stil waiting for Bargnani to morph into Dirk Nowitzki.
Below average defender is not accurate. Jose Calderon is a below average defender.
The only tradeable player on the Raps is Bosh … live with it.
i would do the noah trade in a second… noah brings everything the raps need, including heart
Fantasy trades without any consideration for dollars are a waste of type.
I never said the trade was a possibility, I was just suggesting that Noah is the type of player the raptors need.
First of all Bargnani is so much better than Noah that even if the money and everything else worked B.C. would have to be an idiot to make that deal.
Now not thinking of cash but Noah and maybe Deng or Hinrich for Bosh! That’s a deal.
An opposing coach needs to know that the Hawks will do a run out on every defensive rebound that they can.
So the opponents need to make sure that they
1. Contest on the offensive glass as many of their own missed shots as possible
2. Watch the wing guys and rotate your asses back to cover them staying between them and the basket on a run outs and slowing them down as much as possible without fouling.
Contesting on the offensive glass and running back on defense require effort and determination, and a little bit of athleticism and the Raptors seem to have none of those things.
LOL
True very true, but maintaining the proper floor balance as much as possible is primarily the result of poor coaching.
When Billups was the PG for the Pistons they never had athletic teams though the guys did give an effort and yet the Pistons rarely gave up a lot of fast break baskets in a game.
the problem of this team is that there isn’t one only idea about the way to win the game; there isn’t any strategy planned to reach the winning moment of the game.
this fault is about the coaching staff.
this team need a change: in particular, the most different coach to Triano existing in the world
and i absolutely don’t know who the hell could be
Bill Laimbeer LOL
Ettore Messina.
He may be a very coach in International hoops.
While the American and International games have some similarities like 5 men to aside and the basket at 10 feet the differences in my opinion are too great at this time for any International coach to succeed in the NBA.
sam mitchell is the opposite of triano…
just saying…
We really missed out on not signing Ariza in the offseason. In my opinion he was the best free agent available, not Turkoglu. He is 24, plays lockdown defense and can shoot the three.
‘cept he wasn’t actually ‘available.’ according to reports, he was BC’s first choice, but he (ariza) didn’t want to sign w/ TO.
ifs & buts…
candy and nuts?
Trade Bosh to the Nets! Get their first round pick, and get this John Wall character. He would fill our PG needs next year – the guy is playing crazy ball! I don’t think he knows how to pass though…oh well, we have Turk.
if it was that simple…it would have been done. Seriously…enough with these stupid trade ideas…..ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN
Why would the Nets trade their chance at future superstar they can build around for a guy (bosh) who might not want to hang around a reubuilding team and bolt in the summer??? Does this make any sense??? Jesus….and why would the Bulls trade a heart and soul grinder like Noah for a perimeter big like bargnani when what they need is a deep post player??? Jesus….these trade ideas are dumb and should just stop….(man…do i sound like D. Smith or what??)
On the bright side, the Raptors are 233% better that I though they would be .. winning 10 games so far … when I facetiously suggested they would only win 3 games by the end of December…!!!!
But that prediction was baseless and just plain silly!
Although it did generate a lot of comments.
LOL …. red meat for the tribal honking fans …!!!!!
Facetiously or fatuously?
Change yer name to 3-30.
Crappy game
Crappy recap
Crappy comments
Crap
Okay .. 8 more games to the end of December … and to be generous let’s assume the Raps will go 3-5 to have a record of 13-20 at the end of December.
49 games to the end of the season … and for the Raps to have a 41-41 record, they would have to go 28-21 for the remainder of the season to be a 0.500 team. That would mean they would have to play 0.571 ball … hmmmm
So far they are a 0.400 team … and to go to 0.571 for the rest of the 2010 season, they would have to improve by 43% … hmmmm
If anybody can envisage the Raptors making a huge turnaround in their performance, could you please explain how that will miraculously happen???
More likely to go 5-3 or better. Did you actually look at who the Raps will be facing? Those are some BAD teams!
Ooooops … meant as a reply to brothersteve, above ….
LOL. Ya. They saving themselves for those.
My 3-5 prediction was based on:
Sun 13 vs Houston ……. L
Tue 15 @ Miami ………. L
Wed 16 @ Orlando …….. L
Fri 18 vs New Jersey …. W
Sun 20 vs New Orleans … L
Wed 23 @ Detroit …….. L
Sun 27 vs Detroit ……. W
Wed 30 vs Charlotte ….. W
If you think otherwise, put it on the record.
Won’t lose in Detroit.
Should win one of Houston or Miami (Should win both – but with the way they are playing…)
NO is a good match-up for the Raps – should win that one too! (But part of that good match-up is Calderon has always played well vs Chris Paul)
If the Raps go 1-5 as predicted above, they’ll be playing with an interim Head Coach for the last 2.
Triano has given up on ‘wins’ and is just trying to develop most of the bench for the last part of the season. He knows he can’t depend on the starting lineup for much because they are big slow players who can’t be played more than 36 minutes .. leaving 12 minutes for the bench. The fact that Triano starts subbing in the first quarter confirms this strategy approved by BC no doubt.
As long as Bosh gets his double-double and progress is evident, BC is happy …. because he’s got a trade strategy brewing in his noggin that will start the Raptors on their path to a championship … believe it.
This is correct, an astute approach drafting Bargs and preparing Bosh for the rebuild. I mean, we already had the necessary asset. I mean, why else would you draft a Bargs, with a Bosh already here.
Yikes.
he has given up on 2010 and 2011, leaving 33-year-old hedo to lead us to the promised land in 2012.
I think you should stop predicting and embaressing yourself.
I don’t ‘predict’… I only ’speculate’ … LOL
I cant believe AB is one of the two things you decided to critizise after this game. In comparison to players normal level he (or maybe Weems, but so much less impact) was our best player in the game. Hedo started great, but then vanished. They focused on Bosh and it worked, he was a non-factor in the game (the few points he scored were nullified by the turnovers and his D is just bad). Jack was ok offensively, but looked like Jose on defense. DD seemed to still be thinking about Carlos. Wright was just plain awful (and is so far the biggest dissapointment of the season). Belli finally is hitting some shots, but 4 turnovers is too much for 17 mins.
Bargs was actually pretty good in the game. He was active offensively and created a lot of scoring for himself (and didnt turn it over once). He mixed it up by first taking jumpers, but then also going inside. And his defense actually looked good. He forced a lot of tough shots. In the begining of third we actually got a few stops and many of them were thanks to Bargs. Of course he didnt get rebounds which is a big minus, but as a team we were really bad at it and matchupwise it was kinda hard for Bargs too (having to guard quicker guys that go actively to offensive boards). Outside rebounding he still had a good game.
I like reading the blogs on this site for the overall content, but I gotta say that I hate the constant bashing of certain individuals (AB, Jose, Marco come to mind). It seems that it doesnt matter how they play, you still critisize them. Of course there have been lots of games where these guys have been dissapointing, but it seems you are unable to see anythign good in their game even when they play well.
And dont get me wrong, I like Bosh a lot and he has had a great year. I wouldnt have believed he could be such a monster on boards and actually make up for what Andrea lacks in the department. But his defense outside one-on-one against a big is very lacking (much worse than AB’s) and you never acknowledge that. He has played great this season and this team would be so much worse without him, but thats why he is the franchise player. And as a franchise guy, his expectations are higher.
One thing I agree with you is Calderon. He shouldnt have played. I would rather have seen him sit out this and following three games to come back in good health instead of going the whole season half injured. He has his trouble atletically even when healthy so playing less than 100% just wont do. Stupid decision by whoever made it.
What is up with some fans making everything about Bosh vs AB ?? This is about our team.
what is up with everything being bosh vs ab??
Im not trying to make it Bosh vs. Bargs (although they are the guys you can compare to each other inside the team, just like Jose and Jack). I like both guys and in many ways I think they complement each other pretty well. Like the rebounding. AB certainly is not grabbing enough rebounds for C, but when you got Bosh grabbing 12 a game at PF, it is not such a big problem. The same thing in offense, Bosh is a PF that can take it inside, but needs room. It didnt really work out with him and Oneil, because Bosh ended up as jumpershooter because Oneil was inside taking space. I think part of why Bosh has been going inside more this year (a fantastic thing) is because having Andrea stay on perimeter a lot creates space for him. Opponents have to cover AB behind the line so there is usually only one big guy inside to go against.
The problem with this duo is in defensive end. I think Bargs is pretty good one-on-one defender and Bosh can also bang with the bigs inside. But where we have problems is P’n'R defense and help defense all in all. Bargs is ok, but not consistent enough and makes a lot of mistakes in coverages when he has to rotate. Bosh is even worse in this regard.
Anyway, Im not trying to pin these two against each other. The thing I was trying to express is that bloggers on this site seem to have a beef against some guys on the team, that they never forget, never mind how well that individual plays. And some guys just get a free pass whatever they do. AB and Bosh are just the best examples of this.
I couldn’t agree more, I see so many postings of Bargnani vs Bosh. Last time I checked, they were the top scoring Centre and PF in the league. They compliment each other. The Raptors problems are not Bosh and Bargnani.
Its not a matter of Bosh VS Bargs.
But Bosh happens to be the best example to use vs the criticism Bargs gets with respect to defense. Bosh has been amazing on offense and on the boards but his defense has been atrocious to non-existent.
Bargs has been solid offensively, horrible on the glass and better each game on D. In fact I’d say his man D has been quite good since the team talk, with his help D still being his failure.
However, it’s Bargs that always gets the accusations and the abuse when the Raps D is bad (Jose to when he plays, but he hasn’t been here to be scapegoat #2). Irregardless of what he does right, if a point is scored Bargs should have somehow stopped it. Although when he does stop it… like Josh Smith last night… it takes a debate for it to even get mentioned.
Before everyone corrects me, I meant the top scoring front court tandum in the league
Hate to correct you … but it’s spelled “tandem” ….. try “duo” …..
hate to correct you but 3-30
I meant 13-20 … LOL
oooops….LOL
Haven’t the Raptors had the 2nd most difficult schedule in the league?
I’m too lazy to check it out, but does the schedule get any easier going forward.
If it does, I would say that 28-21 wouldn’t be out of the question. Although if Jose is gone long-term, this is the death-knell for the team.
If they go 28-21 they finish at .500 if they go 3-5 over the next 8 (according to FAQ).
I would venture to say that most of us expected them to be a near .500 team anyway, so if (when) the schedule eases up and they win more games, they will be just catching up to their expected performance.
So far, this team is playing in-line with my expectations.
Flip Saunders in Washington seemed to be , based on his record before he came to the Wizards , a pretty good coach . Like with Triano he has some good scoring players (Arena , Butler , Jamison and a good rebounding center in Haywood ) yet his team has a poor record to date . If he fails to improve the Wizards now that Arena is back , why do we expect so much from Triano ?.
I have the feeling that to much importance is being placed on coaching . It is up to the players to play the game like it should be played and not fold like the Raptors do after one quarter of play (their first quarter is usually pretty good).
actually, no. And most guys around the league would second this: Saunders under achieved in Minny (8 or 9 straight first round exits)? and then couldnt get it done with a 60 win team in detroit that he inherited.
Ive been on record for over a year saying that Flip was not a very good coach and would have been a bad hire here.
his tenure in Washington is just more proof.
I just read that the Philadelphia Phillies are rumoured to be so horny for Halladay that they asked our GM “which players do you want for our team, it doesn’t even matter if they are on OUR team, we’ll get them for you”
So with that in mind, let’s play a game.
Let’s assume that Bosh leaves in a sign-and-trade. Does that give Toronto the power to reasonably request 3 quality players back in the trade portion of the deal?
If so, who are the candidates?
I’m just gonna throw names in here, no real thought.
The end of this year, Bosh leaves to Golden-State and we get back Biedrins, Anothony Randolph and Raja Bell,
Does this make sense? If not, who would you like to see come back in a sign and trade.
You’ll never get those three or anything as good in a sign and trade. You need to trade him now to get quality. At the end of the year we’ll get scrubs.
Trading now doesnt change the scenario unless the other team is Guarenteed beyond a doubt that he will resign with them or the more likely option – he is extended before or upon the trade (wont happen since he wants the extra year and more money).
Do you think NYK would trade Lee, Darko and Gallinari for Bosh .. and then use Bosh as bait to attract LeBron to NY??
Darko says he’s going back to Europe and Lee won’t stay in NY … while Gallinari seems to be lighting it up.
There’s a lot of talk that Bosh is headed to Miami … but to swing a deal now with the Heat they would have to give us Haslem and Richardson to match salaries .. which I don’t think they would do .. or would they???
Put a Sock in it man. Donn’t you get tired of repeating same BS over and over …. If you are trying to show that you have zero knowdlge of Bastekball, then congratulation, you have proved it already with your 3 win prediction. There is no need to come up with BabCock style trades.
New york already has the best 3 points shooter in the league in Gallinari , he lead the league in most 3 points scored. He will complement perfectly the drive to the basket game LBJ has (if they acquire him) . D’Antoni also said Gallinari is the best shooter he ever saw . Please FAQ stop repeating wild trade scenarios which make no sense to anybody but you.
You two jokers, shahinc & cesco .. are so frightened of that NYK trade that you sink into insults, which reveals your pathetic feeeeelings over Bosh abandoning your beloved Raptors …!!!!
I would think that the NYK would want to get Bosh to attract LeBron … and would easily trade Gallinari for Bosh … because Lee and Darko are leaving the Knicks anyway after this season.
Of course you dinks avoid broaching that aspect of a NYK-Raptor trade scenario … because you know it’s a killer trade that makes eminent sense .. sooooo obvious…!!!!
Furthermore ….
ESPN Insider: “LeBron’s future in NYC says Magic Johnson. Magic also says LeBron can’t play with Wade.”
It’s a subscription service, and that is the into statement … LeBron to NYK … and if Bosh is already there, that will just be greater incentive for LeBron to join Bosh .. and both are off-season buddies too.
Bosh would complement LeBron tremendously … they would be a Killer Duo … better than KG and Pierce … or Kobe and Pau …. believe it …!!!!
Furthermore….
I know you are playing it dumb by suggesting this trade. This is not about Bosh or trade with New York !!! This is about what you are suggesting we get back.
You are going further and further more into the hole … Suggest you try the ESPN Trade Machine …. Lee + Gallinari + Darko = Bosh …. who will be LeBron’s main man on the inside … soooo obvious …!!!!
Magic Johnson corroborates FAQ’s prediction that LeBron going to NYK … and the Knicks will have to bring in Bosh to complement LBJ … making Gallinari and Lee trade chips … so sooooo obvious ….!!!!!
Just imagine … NYK and Celtics fighting it out for first in the East … while the Raps, Nets, Sixers are just practice scrimmage teams.
You must be related to BabCock :)because your basketball IQ is defenitly comparable. Just becausea trade works in trade machine and just because It works for NYC, it does not mean Raptors should do it. Stop embaressing yourself
You must be related to BabCock :)because your basketball IQ is defenitly[sic] comparable. Just becausea[sic] trade works in trade machine and just because It works for NYC, it does not mean Raptors should do it. Stop embaressing[sic] yourself
…………………………..
Now we know you are a teenager sitting in your parents basement on your ‘puter and unable to spell … because of your lower than low IQ … so obvious.
LOOOLL, Did I hurt your feeling FAQ ;) so obviouss ,Now that you have no answer for basketball related issues, you have to go after my spelling ;) Mr.IQ. Ok, Now tell us what other trade does your trade machine approves ? How about we trade Bosh for Elton Brance and AI, It seems like trade machine says go for it and Phily likes it too ;)
I thought Danilo was a SF/PF? If that is the case, why would we want him? If he plays SF, then we’d have to find a way to move Hedo and his fat contract in order to give him the playing time he needs, and if he’s a PF wouldn’t that mean another couple of years of Bargnani “playing out of position”?
David Lee is highly overated. HIGHLY. He gets a bunch of boards on a team that has no other real rebounders, and that plays uptempo ball. Not to mention the fact that he is a horrible defender.
Darko is garbage.
I have to imagine that Bosh would get us more than this.
Good points, McCoy … so what would you suggest is available for Bosh that would complement this mish-mash of talent? Perhaps Lee, Gallinari and Darko are the best available players, at least from NYK.
Since it looks like the NYKs will power up with LeBron and most likely Bosh, what will that mean to the Atlantic division and Eastern conference?
What it means is that there will be a lot of teams struggling against the stacked powerhouses and only providing a modicum of entertainment to their local markets. TO, NJ, Philly fans will be royally screwed by the NBA allowing stacked teams to rule the league.
It’s obvious that Stern and the NBA want to ensure that the major markets of NY and LA end up in the championship finals.
“which players do you want for our team, it doesn’t even matter if they are on OUR team, we’ll get them for you”
our=your in the first line.
What the Raptors have shown is they can’t beat a top level team. It is easy to criticize Bosh and Bargnani however they are the least of the Raps problems.
Tmain reason for the struggles are:
- lack of production form Hedo …. the fact he is not in top notch condition 25 games into the season is a huge issue
- Antoine Wright has been useless … billed as this great defensive stallwart, all he has shown me is a incredible ability to make terrible offensive decisions .. has he played even one above average game this year?
- other than Jack none of the other bench players (johnson, bellinelli, Weems, rasho at this stage of his career) can be counted on to be effective …. not surprising they are what I will call spot players … they may give you a few good minutes here and there however they are bound to struggle when you try and play them significant minutes. when we do, we tend to fall apart.
Our roster is proving to be worse than last season
- Hedo & Derozan have not performed as well as Parker & Marion did last year
- Bellinelli is no more effective than Kapono
- Johnson is no more effective than Humphreys
- Wright is actually worse than Moon
- Joey Graham is starting to look good
- Jack is the only real upgrade vs Soloman and Roko
All that said I am not going to condem Collangleo as he needed to make changes – unfortunately to date they haven’t worked out – maybe things would be better if Evans hadn’t been hurt.
My point being …”this team has more than enough Talent” is a bogus statement
Excellent analysis, jhigh …. and do you think that Bosh would agree with you too? If he does, then he must certainly conclude that he must get out of this bad situation. Right?!
agree – if his desire is to play on a team that has a chance to compete for a championship, its’ not likely going to happen here
Why does Hedo or anybody in the organization for that matter think it’s okay to burn himself out during the summer? The intent was to keep Bosh wasn’t it? Not a very high priority after all.
50 wins LOL.
I can’t take Triano anymore. He has no control over this team and we are just playing like a bunch of dudes. He can’t draw up an effective defense with the pieces we have, or make the guys into pieces he can use to form a defense, and we don’t seem to have any plays either. It’s just Bosh or whatever they feel like doing. This team isn’t going anywhere. We need a REAL COACH. Like Rick Adelman or something like that. Houston is without its all-stars, has some talent like us, but is playing like a TEAM. Get rid of TRiano. Get a serious coach who will work closely with the GM to make something that will work. Lord knows this team is on its way to giving Miami its picks and flaming out in the playoffs or just outside of them.
Have you ever thought that this bunch of scrubs are not coachable because their bball skills and IQ are too low …?????
Bosh is resolving his situation by padding his stats to save his bball career after he leaves Toronto … soooo obvious…!!!!
And was that his only option after they drafted Bargs and kept him?
Yup … after BC gave Bargs that contract, Bosh knew his days as a Raptor were numbered … and also he would have to earn his props playing under the basket as a Center … because Bargs has no inside game to speak of… so obvious.
Bosh is now proving to the rest of the league that he is a near-max contract player if not a max contract player. Maybe NYKs will give Bosh the max contract and LBJ will accept less than a max money contract … because Nike will more than make up any difference for LeBron to play in the NY market area with Bosh … believe it.
Your 2010-11 Raptor Roster (after the trade with NYKs):
PG — Jose, Jack
SG — Demar, Belli
SF — Hedo, Galli
PF — Bargs, Lee
C — Darko, Rasho
Bn — Weems, Banks, Reggie, Amir
Triano will platoon the team with players getting 24 minutes of PT if they perform. However the hot hands will stay on longer in the second half if they excel in the first half. It’s a matter of finding who has the hot hand for Triano … and you can forget playing defense because the NBA will become a shootout league if stacked teams are created … because defense doesn’t sell tickets … only offensive scoring counts for the t.h. fans, even if their team doesn’t win.
sooo obvious
^^^ Random Parrot says: “sooo obvious”
are you from the future?
NY Post Bosh/LeBron article:
“Magic Johnson said he believes LeBron James will decide to leave Cleveland to play for the Knicks — but urges Knicks team president Donnie Walsh to lure “The King” by first signing a marquee free agent such as Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudemire.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/magic_king_dom_tfZtmYakE1aDUb5hBcTkTK#ixzz0ZaeR5cNZ
This is exactly what I have been telling all you t.h. fans on RR .. and you mocked me. Now what do you have to say now that Magic Johnson agrees with me …. LOLOL
shahinc says: Dec 13, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“LOOOLL, Did I hurt your feeling FAQ ;) so obviouss ,Now that you have no answer for basketball related issues, you have to go after my spelling ;) Mr.IQ. Ok, Now tell us what other trade does your trade machine approves ? How about we trade Bosh for Elton Brance[sic] and AI, It seems like trade machine says go for it and Phily likes it too ;)
Magic Johnson agrees with me … first trade Bosh to NYK … and in return get what…. Lee, Darko, Gallinari .. maybe …???!!!!
Again, you are missing the point. There could be very well a trade sending Bosh to NYC. I don’t deny that. However, I am telling you ( read it carefully) that the trade is NOT going to be the following:
Darko, Galiinari an LEE for Bosh.
The above is just NOT going to happen but that does not mean that Bosh is never going to be traded to NYC.