The “we just want to show our home fans that we care” edition.
Banks – back to the bench. Sadly, probably the right move.
Bargnani – offensively, a solid game. Completely different look to his demeanour tonight and it even included the return of the lean-in-for-the-shooting-foul move he perfected on his own teammates in training camp. Defensively, at least his offense was good.
Belinelli – see above. He awakened on the offensive end, but what he gave us, he returned with some horrible turnovers. More and more it seems like Nellie made the right call in Golden State. Marco has had the opportunity in Toronto to show he can play, but lately has shown that he simply can’t.
Bosh – quite obviously Atlanta knows how to play Chris Bosh. Yes, he got his double double, but they made him work for it and you could almost see the energy leave his body. Good effort on a night that didn’t feature many for the home team.
Calderon – played only a few minutes in the first half and didn’t return in the second half. I think he used the mercy rule.
DeRozan – horrible night for the rook who found himself chained to his chair again. Down 20, should we send the rookie in for some experience? Nooooo. Holding Bargnani back and yanking him as he made mistakes worked wonders for him, so why not do it with DD?
Evans – I’d fake an injury too. Much respect.
Jack – nice effort tonight on one end of the floor. He looked a bit more comfortable not being the primary ball handler. Of course that’s probably because he knows he wouldn’t have to answer tough questions after this loss.
Johnson – this guy probably goes to the gym himself and still throws elbows around on a rebound. Saw him get pushed off the block a bit too much tonight and he continues to show that defense can’t be a one man effort.
Mensah-Bonsu – he’ll be back in the UK by Christmas.
Nesterovic – you know when you are out holiday shopping and you get stuck behind a slow moving person that you just want to get around to move on with your day? You’ve been Rasho’d.
O’Bryant – we all know a guy like him. Whether you have a job or you’re in school, there is always one guy that, as you bust your ass, he just coasts and only does stuff when prompted. Incredibly you find out he actually makes almost as much as you and has a hot girlfriend. He’s your own personal POB.
Turkoglu- he took Bosh’s place tonight and came out like a house on fire. He was passing the ball with some crispness, he hit shots, he played alert defense. Tailed off as the game went on, but still had an impressive stat line. Still nowhere near where he should be, but at least he looked like he cared. Did he blow on defense? Sure did, but who didn’t?
Weems – wasn’t afraid to take shots and he actually made some. This is still a guy that I think could become a decent defender, but he has a bit of the Jamario mindset in him in that he is always looking to break out or push. Sometimes you just have to lock in, Sonny.
Wright – if they ever had a giveaway night for Wright, it shouldn’t be a bobblehead, it should be a rollercoaster. The guys game has more ups and downs than David Hasselhoff’s career.
Driving The Bus: Hedo Turkoglu
Under The Bus: DeMar DeRozan
Game Theme:
119 Raps
I’m sure somebody is going to mention this in the analysis of the game tomorrow, but how mad were you when you saw Wright and Belinelli coming in for Turk and Demar when we were playing well. Turk was having his best start in weeks and he gets pulled for the team spokesperson!? I realize Turk isn’t the best defender and got burned a few times but he was literally playing too good on the offensive end to come out. Easily the turning point of the game.
Brutal, just brutal.
Wow can’t believe how biased this forum is. If Bosh does not play well (he played terrible today)because the other team knows how to play him. Could you not use the same excuse for every player who did not have a good game. Bosh did not get to the free throw line until 4:13 of the third quarter. He only had 2 free throws in the entire game. To top that he had 5 (FIVE) turnovers in the game. He made only one field goal in the second half.
He cannot match up against physical players. This is your leader, 20 million max franchise player. Where was the fire? Your leader has to step up especially when you were humiliated in the last game. He played worse than a timid mouse.
Dude cant do it all by himself every night man….
Dude…
the Memphis grizzlies have a better record than us and they play in the western conference. Their main player Zach Randolph this year is 18.9/9/9. He has 12 double doubles. In their last two games before tonight they defeated the Mavericks and Cavaliers. Randolph had 24/15 (9 offensive rbds) against Mavericks and 32/14 (7 offensive rebounds) against Cleveland. Why can a player like Randolph play that good against elite teams and our franchise player well….
Everyone knows that Randolph is a selfish player that has never lifted his team to the next level. He gets his stats but his teams never perform well.
Marc Gasol is playing out of his mind right now as well….so its not all randolph
Broken record. Whether true or not you always come back with the same point. Bosh did not have a terrible game. If you watched he tried to distribute the ball to people who “were” open when doubles came to him. Seemed pretty obvious to me. Anyone see his game as “terrible”.
“Bosh did not have a terrible game”
You are right. Bosh did not have a terrible game. He had a better game than last time against Atlanta when he got only 4 points.
…And miraculously the five turnovers appeared from thin air.
Once again didn’t see the game, I don’t get TSN2 but why can’t we compete with decent teams? I like our players, I think we’ve got some good talent but this is just bad and we are stuck with it for a couple years. The only hope I can see to elevate us is trade Bosh or Bargs (only decent peices we have). I was wrong: this team aparently will never be a contender since we can’t elevate ourselves. Our bench has been a massive disappointment, Turk has been disappointing, and Bargs is super inconsistant. Bosh is still playing well and DeRozen is showing flashes but this team is just not that good.
we need veteran leadership and more athleticism
Without Calderon, DD does not get many touches. I think Demar didn’t get a touch in the first 5 minutes of the game. We have to get DD a little bit more involved.
Why does Wright insist on forcing shots?
What exactly is Bargs doing when he isn’t standing on the three point line and isn’t in the post? Is he lost?
How did Bosh miss that dunk?
Is Turk going to ever earn his pay?
Questions need answering…
By moving, didn’t Barg score most of his points close to the basket. When he does not move, people question him? When he does they question him.
Another reason he had to move from the 3-point line is that Chris Bosh was ineffective scoring in the post. I think he thought he could compensate for a franchise player being irrelevant in tonight’s game.
Atlanta has basically the same core as last year but did not play this good. The reason is that the offense is not one dimensional where in the past they gave the basketball to Joe johnson to create and score. They now know that to be a good basketball team they have to share the basketball. There are no so called franchise player(s) on their team. They know there roles and just want to win not pad stats. I wish the raptors would follow such an example.
Ya I agree with you about Bargs, he came out of the gates pretty well tonight. His pull up from the FT line was on. He definitely wasn’t just standing there on the 3 pt line.
Bargnani had a good game – he and Hedo played well. But, again, having 2 or 3 players play well against an elite team will never cut it.
What makes Atlanta truly dangerous is that they 6-7 players who can go off at any point in a game. Crawford, Bibby, Evans, Smith, Johnson, Horford, _____(insert name here) all torch us. There are “maybe’ 2 or 3 players with the same capability on the Raptors.
Gotta love statements like “I think he thought he could compensate for a franchise player being irrelevant in tonight’s game.” A Barg’s Insider.
I am not even a Barg supporter. I am just trying to be fair in passing out judgments. The roll call criticizes Bargnani on his defense but does not mention Bosh’s five turnovers.
Why not? Let me guess it had no effect on the game.
Today’s article in the Globe & Mail by Michael Grange erroneously gives barg only one rebound in 34 minutes. He had 3 rebounds (not great number at all). There was mention of the FIVE turnovers by Chris Bosh.
Why not?
I love “Great Journalism”.
Joe Johnson is the Hawk’s franchise player…. hence they pay him max money and stole him from Pheonix and built their whole team around him…
Wright doesn’t know any better and nobody tells him otherwise. Role players trying to be heroes is a very good sign of a coach who doesn’t have control of his team.
That’s exactly what I saw tonight: The distinct and complete lack of real NBA coaching.
Nearing the end of halftime, I got settled back in for the resumption of play. The second half hadn’t yet started so I went down a couple channels to the Cleveland/Portland game. I watched them zip the ball around and cut and circle and run plays that were designed to get players to where they’d need to be to receive a pass within two to six feet of the basket and in the paint (and they were working – for Cavs especially) … and for a moment … for that moment right then, I felt like a man who had been dying of thirst, suddenly coming across an oasis of fountains and waterfalls and lovely cool collins drinks (whatever they are) … and … had I been another person, I might’ve cried. Then …
then …
well, then I changed the channel back to the Raptors … already back in play. I watched Turkoglu shuffle around so very not-quick and un-athletic (bizarre-ly so, even) and for that very moment right then, it hurt to be a witness to it. He looked right then like he had no business AT ALL being on an NBA floor with NBA players … and I thought, ‘somebody REALLY didn’t do their homework on this guy’ … and he took a shot … or maybe two. It didn’t matter because neither went in … and I watched as the otherwise fine athletes on the rest of the Raptors moved in ways that were uninspired and raggedy-assed; so hopelessly badly coached … and that’s when I realized …
… it was as clear as an unmuddied lake … as clear as an azure sky of deepest summer … that those who have been questioning the abilities of the head coach and griping about it these last days and weeks were absolutely bang-on 100% correct. They were right.
Our coach stinks. And not just ‘stinks’. He REAAALLLLY stinks. Sorry to Jay and those who love him, but in the arena of men, of NBA coaches, he is but a lad acting AS IF he belonged … but he does not yet belong. To my formerly supportive eyes, this cat was out of the bag in stark and painful clarity and … you know what they say about the cat being out of the bag, right? Right. Ya can’t put the cat back in the bag.
It’s not working. This coach cannot get it working. He’s just not ready for this league. And how f***ing depressing is that?
yikes. Mr. J Daniels came by last night. What can be said, except apologies all ‘round for unfocused diatribe. and a bit over the top, perhaps.
The more I see Triano, the more shivers I get. I’m not inside the locker room or anything, but just looking at him on the sidelines just sitting quietly while we’re getting our ass whooped leaves me distraught – I have no idea if he’s planning something or he’s just confused and mystified as he really looks. I really hope it’s not the latter. Did you see Mike Woodson on the other hand? His team was blowing us out and he was still on the sidelines up and and barking instructions.
Mike Woodson has been on the brink of being fired for half a decade in Atlanta…. All the suddenly they get a bunch of talent and a balanced roster and he’s good? just putting it in perspective – coaches are never as good or bad as fans think…
Turk was not bad tonight. He had 12 points (5-10 shooting), 8 assists, 7 rebounds, 1 blocked shot and only 2 turnovers.
What more would you like him to do? I agree he has played terrible this year but tonight’s game was not one of them.
Never mind with the recriminations everyone. Sometimes you just comeup against a far superior team and thats what the Hawks are. Size, speed, athleticism etc….and I forgot, Joe Johnson…just well balanced…something I thought we’d show a bit more consistently and of course haven’t. They just toyed with us. Wouldnt be surprised if the Hawks represent the East this year.
Hawks beating the Raptors isn’t appalling, its just the way in which it happened. The Raps looked like a d-leage team out there and it was never even close.
This is getting close to a serious crises for the Raptors. We are a game ahead of the Knicks, and by mid-week we will probably be a game behind them! 30% of the season is over.
The coach needs to be held accountable for our performances night in and night out.
Man, this team lets you down too many times. I understand Atlanta’s good but can we at least stay with them for a half? I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this team is capable of turning it around. If they have trouble getting up for this one, then watch out, it’s going to be a long season.
I was surprised how good our offense was at the start of the season and now we’re coming closer to what we’re actual average is. I think Alt hit it on the head, whatever we score we give right back. This team is incapable of making runs which are sparked by the defense, we’re relying on cold spells from other teams and hot shooting to gain an advantage. That’s just not normal.
Very disappointed in everyone. Starters, bench the whole shebang. I suppose Jack gets some good marks for forcing the issue against Bibby early but overall, a shitty game. Hedo, thanks for showing up but is he going to do it on a nightly basis from now on? Doubt it, that’s just how the Raptors roll.
Depressing…….. Maybe the Raps should just go Kurt Cobain already.
I think you had it right in your main piece…the Raps are a 500 team and will do ok against the bottom feeders and struggle against the good ones. Its tough to take…but reality is setting in when we have games like this against teams like this and on our court to boot. There is too much lacking to write about.
Honestly, I would be happy that they are 500 team. Sadly, they are not – nor they were last year. Raptors are far from 500 team.
Hmm, I take it that it was a good night to miss the game, should I suffer myself to watch the replay later or will it put the physical well being of my TV in jeopardy?
I seriously recommend you skip the replay. Unless you watch just the first quarter you’ll get pretty upset. You will look at the Atlanta shooters, and the space between them and the closing defender and say, “Not again… please no more!”
However, at one point you’ll see our coach get a technical and think to yourself, “Hey! Nice to see Jay trying to get the boys back in it… wait a minute… that’s not Jay, that’s Mike Woodson. I wish our coach would try to fire up our guys. I wonder what else is on.”
Johnson should spend the next summer at Gold’s gym and watching film of Kevin Love playing.
Anybody still have any doubts that Bosh will not be a Raptor next season ..???
With Bosh the team has played horribly. I doubt it will make any difference without him. They will still be horrible.
Just a few years ago people were making fun of the Hawks. Well look at the now. They are creative, sharing the basketball, playing with energy and all that without a franchise player.
Well we got one….
they have joe johnson….we don’t
He is not considered a franchise player. Do you ever hear his name mentioned in the same light as Wade, Lebron and Kobe. He is good player and will not be awarded a max contract in 2010.
I believe that he is one of the top 10 players in the league, and there are teams that will be ready to pay near max. to get him. We’ll see him gone, and we should not be upset about it. This is going to be Colangelo’s legacy in TO.
I am referring to Joe Johnson in the previous post not Chris Bosh.
Joe Johnson is a Lebron-lite that has put up gaudy numbers since joining the Hawks…. he’s their franchise player whether you think he’s the next Kobe or not haha
Bosh is the only tradeable player on the Raps .. the rest are scrubs .. so obvious.
Rightfully so. I only hope that he will not get booed like Carter when he comes to ACC. I believe that Bosh did all he could, but never had enough talent around him (including coaches too).
Forget about Colangelo’s legacy. What about Chris Bosh?
If he gets traded, Sign&Trade or just decides to leave at the end of the year, what will be his impact on the new team. If he cannot lead it to any success, I think he will always be referred to as a player that was good but just was not top tier. Of course if he does well without another superstar like wade, lebron or kobe on his new team then the Raptors organization has to do a lot of soul searching for answers.
Until he does that, he will never be acknowledged by the basketball community or peers even with great stats as a top tier superstar.
…If Bosh is successful with either Wade, Lebron or Kobe, then he will be remembered for all time as a second banana.
If Bosh leaves, I expect him to be playing with another superstar. I don’t see him leaving to a team where he is the best player with a bunch of role players. Miami seems to be the rumored destination with wade and their cap space.
The player who should be under the bus is Wright. At least DeMar went to free throw line, had two rebounds, 1 steal and was a -3 in 23:31 minutes of playing time. He was ignored on offense throughout the entire game.
Wright in 11:26 minutes of playing time was a -16, went 1-4 shooting with no rebounds, blocks and only one steal. Played horribly on defense. How can this player not be the one under the bus.
Ignored is right! Demar never get the ball. Its not like hes not moving they just wont look to him. He’s always the first man up the court and no one ever looks for the leak out….. TIME FOR SOME GROUP THERAPY AGAIN :D
Agreed. I just hate Antoine Wright period.
I agree. Wright is useless and just above Banks in bball talent, but considering how big his mouth is and how a player so shitty is always ready to speak I put him as the most useless piece of shit on this team. I can’t stand seeing him on the floor. He hurt himself even more by having the nerve to talk about others when he has been the worst Raptor by far.
Apparently Jose re-aggravated his injury and could be out long-term:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360
Disagree with your post…..no way portland takes hedo after the shit he pulled this summer….and there’s no way philly is gonna trade for an injured PG…..As much as some of you hate calderon…at least he’s a step up from the will solomon era…
I think Jose Calderon value has hit a new low. If he is being compared to the Will Solomon era well we really have problems.
LMAO it’s so funny yet its so sad at the same time..
Tossin my 2 cents, but I think Calderon is better than Jack overall.
This is going to suck, if Triano keeps putting Banks in, we’re fked!
The only positive about the Calderon injury is that it will force Triano to use Marco and especially Hedo as primary ball-handlers – initiating the offense and, if open, taking shots due to match-ups. This should have done long before this point imo.
The only thing Triano has to do is make sure Banks is suited up as the 3rd PG.
what about a trade for Rafel Alston anyone. By the way hawks are a very tough team to beat. I think they are better than the Celtics talent wise.
25 games down and expect the Raptor’s play will get worse before it gets any better, and there is no visible sign either when we’ll see consistency and confidence – just some sporadic spurts. The Raptor’s struggle may suggest that defense-offense, from a mental perspective, are at opposite ends where it may be very hard to possess both (but Kobe’s a good defender!). The current offensive slump (it used to be quite easy for them to swish 3s) may have been the result of forcing the brain to be in defense mode – the influence of neuron rewiring and change of mentality. You probably can imagine the struggle when you will be forced to m*st*rb*te with your other hand (sorry for this example)
Of course there is hope: (a) they just have to exert more more and more effort to learn it and its not a choice (limited practice time a concern?), (b) hope that they have the best mentor with proven techniques and track record (trade Iavaroni?), (c) Evans will suit soon (but a strong and intimidating true center is better). Also they should be reminded that they’re paid well to perform (lack of motivation/drive really does not apply to pro players) and as they improve on their defence, just hope that they’ll recover their league-feared offense. Right now they look amateurish but defense will be natural and second nature for them soon, very soon please as other teams (NY, Charlotte) are adjusting at a much faster rate.
Yet with greatly reduced expectations, still a Raps loyalist. Go Raps Go!
It easy to play offense in bball, but playing defense is doubly hard because you not only have to adapt to the opponents, you have to think about what you are doing .. and thinking slows down athletes … they must be instantly reactive on defense.
The problem with playing Raps bench players against opponent’s starting lineup is that the benchers don’t have enough playing time to get to know the top offensive players on opposing teams .. and their reactiveness is just trial and error and error and error.
For example, DeMar is taken to school by the top SF’s or SG’s he is expected to guard .. and it becomes a learning development process .. as it does with the bench scrubs the Raptors are throwing on the floor because their starting lineup is a shambles.
Bosh must be feeling mighty pissed about now .. and will be doing his utmost to pad his stats regardless of his teammates attempt to run plays. Triano is helpless and must just watch the disintegration ….!!!!
I suspect that BC has asked Triano to give the scrubs more floor time in the hope some of them can improve their stats .. so that BC can try to pawn them off on other teams.
Honestly, I was there, and I was trying SO HARD to get the ACC into it. Trying to start chants and what not. It was like a cemetery from the get go. The game was pathetic though. No drive. No passion. I’m just getting fed up of this bullshit. I think that little team meeting was over blown by beating 2 mediocre teams. If we keep this up the ACC will slowly dwindle down and become a pretty sad place to play basketball. It makes me wonder if BC is content with this team, because even ticket numbers will start declining with this brand of basketball….
Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that attendance is down? I mean, tonight’s game barely got over 17,000 (on a Friday night), and probably was less than that.
For a guy like BC, who cares so much about the business aspect of it, it has a little bit concerning.
There was just over 12,000 there last night. They announced 17,000.
Prices are high enough that they are just below break even on ticket sales. Factor in merch and concessions (all owned by MLSE) and they are doing quite nicely.
If you want to hurt them, don’t by food or drink when you go to a game. Maybe that will shock them into doing something.
Yup. BYOB that ish and mix a bottle.
STFU Canadians.
Deep in your frigid souls, you know what’s going on with the Raptors. It’s called ‘holy shit it’s freezing outside’. This is a reasonable human response to the current climate. You probably have ignored the simple fact BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THIS CITY. Your brain is therefore trying to distract you from suicide by not making this available to consciousness. But the simple fact is that with out electricity, oil, imported food and parkas you’d be dead within 48 hours. Let’s recap: Toronto is uninhabitable, and will be for the next 4 months.
Stop ragging on the Raptors because you’ve been slipping as well. Nobody accomplishes anything of merit during the first cold snap of the year. It’s impossible.
Exhibit A: This column. Not funny. It’s not that ‘Altraps’ can’t produce something good. At least, I’m willing ot give him a pass, because his brain is probably preoccupied with nut-gathering hibernation plots. He’s eating more than he should, drinking ‘for the holidays’, waking up late. And all that makes somehow incapable of judging professional athletes in a paragraph but.
So to summarize: if you didn’t have to live in denial of the basic fact of how spaz-inducing the cold actually IS, you wouldn’t be wasting your time reading this response in a stupor like a cold bastard child who knows his dad is living in Miami with a ‘new mommy’.
So I submit an important caveat: 9 guys in this team are in a mental freezer. They’ll adapt. But the unfortunate truth is that this city is bad for athletes. It’s bad for their knees. It’s bad for their habits. It basically adds 3 years and 10% body fat in pure lack-of-heat coldness.
Let’s recap:
BANKS: butt is cold from the cold bench. Looks like he’s gained 15lbs over the past 3 months.
BARGNANI: knows about Toronto, isn’t phased by the cold snap. But seems to be having problems jumping after showing remarkable hops in September and October.
BELINELLI: playing like a guy driven insane by the coldness and bleakness of Toronto. You’d expect more from a dude born in northern Italy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Giovanni_in_Persiceto (basically a farm town in the middle of effing nowhere). But he grew up around crops. And Italy doesn’t compete with Toronto in terms of bleakness or coldness.
BOSH: has adapted to Toronto and, like a good Canadian, seems to use the thought real estate is in Florida as motivation.
CALDERON: doesn’t get the ‘cold hamstring = tear’ equation. Anyone else notice the 10-year-old kid in Chicago who gave him two middle fingers after seeing his 3-point celebration from the second row? Love that kid. I give Jose two middle fingers as well. Or maybe just his gimpy leg. . .
Yeah, his leg.
DEROZAN: not so much chained to the bench as in full wide-eye ‘holy shit it’s cold’ mode. He doesn’t even care about the bloods and crips anymore. Just the hot water bottles.
…. TURKOGLU: how does anyone go from Orlando to Toronto and not hate life? At least a little? He absolutely looks depressed. Can you blame him? Really…
I supposed you do have a point, if it gets below 15 celcius in winter where I live we stay indoors.Don’t know how you can live in -15.
HAHA Jokes. Don’t know if you’re a Raps fan but funny post. Wish I saw that kid from Chicago.
I still have faith in this team. Raptors are getting killed on the fast break and not generating that many points. Make it to the playoffs and the speed slows down. For the first time, that could be beneficial to the Raptors. And I think they match up very well against Cleveland. It’s just making the playoffs that is the issue at the moment.
FEED BARGS THE BALL
Bleakness?? BLEAKNESS?? Orlando over Toronto?? Where The Fuck Are You From Bud? Bet You’ve Never Even Been To This City… Bleakness. What’s The Climate Like In New York, Cleveland, Detroit, Boston, Philly Like These Days?? Oh Yea, IT’S ALL THE DAMN SAME!
The Jordan-era Bulls seemed to manage the cold and bleakness very well (and if you think that it wasn’t effin cold and bleak in Chi-town in those days then I’d wager you were not walking to a car at 10:30pm on a Friday in the late 80s/early 90s Chicago).
Turkoglu’s wife has changed her mind, again, and wants to move to Florida for the winter months … who wouldn’t ….LOL
FIRE TRIANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how in the world is possible to have the first team meeting after more than 3 months?
but this is not a company… this is a f…ing basketball team… you speak with the players every day and if someone is not playing D or not getting 110% in the games you, as a coach, normally kick his ass and bench him…don’t need a f…ing official team meeting… they are not CEO’s…they are basketball players for god sake!!!!!!!!
i don’t know if this is the normal way to coach a basketball team in NBA but for sure is not normal here in europe…
the team has the talent,the size and the skills to be over 50% for sure so FIRE TRIANO NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and find a real coach PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
… but but but… the Moronto Ratpors have low defensive IQ … verging on neanderthal … so how does a coach inject defense into their brainlets … orally??.. visually??.. anally????
You wanna be the man against the Bad teams, but blame everyone else for not stepping up when we play the good one. You wanna look everyone off and take it to the rim against Wolves, you won’t take it to the rim a try to get to the line when playing shot blockers. A guy in the game thread on Realgm in the first half said it looked like Bosh was the only one contesting shots. He had that wrong. Bosh was led-footed and gave those shots by not getting up on them. Simply putting your hand in the air when you are too far away for it to matter doesn’t cut it. It’s token D. It’s one thing to not close out in time. It’s another if you just don’t bother getting close enough and allow whoever to catch and shoot like you’re not even there while you rack up after the shot goes up.
I was shocked when Bosh passed to a cutting Bargs when he was posting up, usually he never makes that pass, then I realized CB did not was shook. Shook about being blocked. You don’t think CB’s the type to get Shook? Why is he making DVD skits where he “gets back” at detractors. Why is he less aggressive against the more aggressive teams. Why in the games against Hawks, which were supposed to be Big games, one coming off a home loss to Washington, and then in game meant to send a statement that the game in ATL was an aberration, does he fail to bring it. Did Hedo forget to bring his game,no, Bargs no, Jack, no, And DeMar pretty much has played the role he’s played all season. I have no doubt the Hawks are a better team. In the two bad loss how much below his average is Bosh?
The Game was close when Andrea went to the Bench, and then It went to the crapper, as the defense was flat when he left. When he came back in the late in the second quarter we slowed them, down again. The last game when Bargs didn’t even play we had the same defensive issues Bargs get’s blamed for. Bosh needs to stop playing “gentlemen defense”, not talking rebounding, but defense. If teams played as softly on him as he plays on them he’s score 50 a game. But they don’t. He should get that message. After seeing the “payback” he had for ATL, just imagine what kind of Payback mr. CB4 has for Boston and Pierce. Don’t you think those guys are going to be in for it when CB sees them again. Do you think guys? guys?
You folks honestly think that Bosh-less Raptors will find their game? If you get rid of Bosh this team will be better? With bunch of third-grade players and clueless coach?
If Bosh is gone, they can blow the whole thing up and get rid of Triano-Colangelo-Gherardini triangle. Raptors need to retain couple of young worthy players (Amir and DeRozan) and start all over again with young and athletic core, like Blazers/Hawks did.
This team is going nowhere, that’s perfectly clear now. And please don’t boo Bosh if he comes to the ACC with another team. Not his fault, IMO.
I think Bosh has played admirably for the raptors throughout his career, and that the Raptors gave him a chance to be a star. I also believe it’s time to move on and do it now. I absolutely believe that trading Bosh now is the right thing and I will not boo him. This team needs to find an identity without a so called superstar and I think yes they will actually play better and others will step up and improve without him.That said I cannot believe that Triano has been such a horrible horrible coach. He cannot make Wright play the game we want, he cannot make anyone play a disciplined game. Forget the defense which sucks, he cannot get them to whip the ball around on offence to get guys good looks and wide open three and four footers. Watching the Raptors has become very very dissapointing, because I know the talent level is better than the product. I for one do not blame BC for team selection although there have been mistakes, I blame him for giving Triano a 3 year deal without knowing if he had it.
What do you suppose that identity is, soft euroball ? What on earth does it solve by trading away your best player, can you tell me one franchise that has done this and been succesful. Don’t blame Chris for the team that he has to play with. Chris Bosh came into a bad situation and did his best I would hate to see him leave on that same note because management has failed this team and fans. Through out his carear he has had to deal with one bad situation after another and blaming him and trading him should he still want to be here would be a huge mistake. You build arround 20/10 every single night not trade them for another rebuilding stage. Every front court player Bryan has brought in here has been to mask Andrea can’t do not Chris.
You obviously know very little about basketball to stick with the same thing that has got you nowhere forever. I can name you a ton of teams that kept signing some guy they deemed the savior only to see nothing happen. Bosh is great but cannot carry a team, nor should he so move on.
Have you ever watched a Euro game or the players you keep referring to as soft play? There is nothing soft about the game and they would surely kick your ass all over the floor. I for one do not want to see gangsta players in Toronto and BC has done an excellent job of keeping those types out of Toronto. You are so full of crap on the mask Andrea bs. He will thrive without Bosh, as will others and Jose might actually learn to move the ball around a bit.
Name on team that has traded their best player and been succesful, and as for carrying a team name one forward that does. Move the ball? to who a seven-footer that can’t create from the three point line. Look where trading Garnett got the Timberwolf’s at least L.A didn’t make that same mistake. btw are you related to Andrea. What has Andra ever achived in his whole carrer in the nba. All the player that have been brought in have been rebounder’s and defensive minded, between the two big men who does doesn’t fit that profile. 20/10 every night. So in your opinion toughness and grit are present on this team ? let me guess Jose is a starter in this leauge, drive and kick only works when somone, say your point guard can break down the defense
No one is claiming that Andrea is a franchise player. Granted he was chosen first in the draft he has a lot to learn to become a solid player in the league.
Fans in Toronto have chosen Chris Bosh as our elite max franchise player. We expect him to deliver. Even garnet with the terrible cast that he was given took his team to the playoffs and he personally performed well. Chris Bosh has made it twice and both times he basically choked against the Nets and Magic. He also has a problem of getting injured (knee) and misses about 10 to 15 games every season. You must evaluate franchise players at a higher standard than you do other players.
When you are taken first over all that almost always comes with the trade. Not to defend Bosh’s playoff performances but when K.G made it out of the first round that one year he had Spree and Sam and they had something still left in the tank. Not ever team makes it to the the playoffs, but they still have franchise players. It takes five. Let’s not relive the Vince fiasco again. your best player doesn’t have to be your leader, nor should he have to. Oak and Antonio werent our best player’s but it worked because the team was not based on offense talent alone, we had a good mix.
But Kevin Garnett did lead them to eight consecutive playoff appearances and did have to face the powerhouses in the west such as the Spurs, Lakers and Kings.
Our “franchise player” faced the Nets and Magic.
Here’s Bosh choking against the Magic: 47% FG, 83% FT, 24 pts, 9 rbs, 3.5 asts. I HATE anecdotal attacks on the guy. “He chokes in the playoffs, he comes up small in big games, can’t finish games” How about you actually check if that’s true before posting it?
Teams in all sports trade their best players from time to time when the end result has been terrible. I don’t think anyone should blame Chris Bosh. But we have to accept that we have tried numerous combinations with him with little or no success. The problem is that the team was so bad that we needed a superstar. Well we chose Chris Bosh. He is a good player and is our best player on offense and rebounding. He is not a leader and I think unfairly was given that role. I think the raptors are at a crossroads and will have to soon make a decision. The world will not end if he leaves. With him in the lineup we are 10-15 and even the Memphis Grizzilies with Zach randolph (18.9/9/9 this season) have a better record. I am sure none of the raptors fans would want Zach Randolph on their team even though he is a 20/10 player.
Bargnani did not play on the starting unit until when Jermaine O’Neal got injured. He played in his first two season as small forward on the second unit. Can you please explain in the first two years what Colangelo did to mask Andrea? In the third year he played as backup centre to JO. Are you saying that JO was brought in to mask Andrea? I thought he played with Bosh to give a more tougher inside presence. That was to mask Bosh’s weak interior defense. This year Colangelo has brought in Reggie Evans but that is to help the team and he will play with both Bosh and Andrea.
when somone goes to the bench that means you need more that what that player is givin you. He was helping Chris so that he would not be the only raptor rebounder and low post player because we have enough parimeter players on the court. btw name one team that has traded their best player and succeded ?
I don’t think anyone is expecting that Bosh gets traded/leaves and all of a sudden the team is better. The idea of that is ludicrous.
What people are concerned about are 6-7 more years of the same thing we’ve had, and the 20 mil (give or take) that will go with it. If Bosh does leave or get moved this team will most definetely have to go through growing pains again.
I’m not advocating Bosh leaving… but I’m pretty sure thats what people who aren’t concerned about Bosh leaving are thinking.
If a team trades a superstar that has achieved personal and team success than I think the club will not be successful. But to trade their best player is not going to end the franchise.
Chris Bosh is the best player on the raptors. No one is going to debate that. But is he that “franchise player” who is going to bring success to the team. So far the results have not been there. We can make up a lot of excuses but that will not change that Chris Bosh has not delivered for the team when it counts.
he hasn’t had the right cast arround him. Every year this team gets overhauled. Jason Kapono, Will Soloman, Jermaine O’neal, T.J Ford etc.
so who is the right ‘cast’ then? Pau couldn’t do it until he was on a stacked team… so how does Colangelo ’stack’ a team in Toronto without a ridiculiously large payroll?
On the flipside… D-Wade doesn’t have a good cast around him and yet he takes his team to respectability every year (that he is not injured ofcourse).
So the Raps go out and pay D-Wade cash for a Pau Gasol player, but then need to break out the wallet again to bring in more top talent.
How much are you willing to pay for a ticket I wonder? Then who will be the first to accuse the MLSE of treating the Raps like the leafs, making it unaffordable for non-corporate junkies to buy a ticket. This is ofcourse assuming they can actually even attract the talent North of the Border (which 15 years of experience says its unlikely).
Ofcourse you could rebuild again through the draft…. but that takes years and do you want Bosh’s payroll taking up that space for 4 years while you draft? Does Bosh want to go through that again? Would Bosh not being on this team benifit that by making this team worse, therefore a chance at a better pick each year?
What I’m trying to get at is ‘having the right cast’ to suit one player and actually being able to achieve it are alot easier said than done.
“Brakeman1 says:
Dec 12, 2009 at 10:57 am
he hasn’t had the right cast arround him. Every year this team gets overhauled. Jason Kapono, Will Soloman, Jermaine O’neal, T.J Ford etc.”
Is it because we are constantly changing the personnel or we cannot build a great championship around Bosh. That is the million dollar question. Actually it is the 130 million dollar question.
“With (Bosh) in the lineup we are 10-15 and even the Memphis Grizzilies with Zach Randolph (18.9/9/9 this season) have a better record.”
WOW I wasnt aware that Z-bo was averaging a Triple Double!! Is the last “9″ for turnovers, bone-headed missed 3pt attempts, or blow-by’s per game?
I think he was talking FTA per game
Typo error
I think he meant 18.9/9.9 this season.
Brakeman1 says: “Name one team that has traded their best player and been succesful”
Since you’ve asked this many times and not received an answer:
orlando – traded mcgrady in his prime after the 03-04 season. went into full on rebuild mode. drafted howard, some other smart picks, made good FA signings, and they’re alright now.
LA – traded shaq, who was arguably the best player on that team over kobe (many think that he should have been mvp over nash the next year, his first with miami). lakers got odom back, drafted smart (bynum), lucked into gasol, and are also doing quite well.
you’re right, you’re never going to get full value, or even close to it, for a player of bosh’s calibre. but the “quick fix” mentality to just basically tread water rather than merely being bad for a few years is why this team’s gone nowhere, and is going nowhere.
i agree with arsenalist who said upthread that this team needs a plan. at this point rebuilding is not a bad one. if you can get good young talent and high picks for bosh i say go for it. and i wish him all the best, bosh has been great for this team.
first of all I don’t want to see Bosh go, but the thing that scares me about that idea is I don’t want these IDIOT’S screwing that up. Going back to the Vince incident and the rest of the bad moves Colangelo has made. I personally would rather B.C actually build a team around a guy that has been developed by the raptor system than trade him and screw it up in the draft. Those two examples are rare and those teams have been very lucky but Toronto has been burned by not doing this right, Minesota still hasn’t proved that it can, L.A didn’t trade Kobe and it took a few years and a lot of luck i.e Gasol, Fisher Ariza developed well, even when the bucks traded Karem it’s very difficult to do. You gotta be real lucky, at least with Bosh you know what you are getting. I don’t think he is the problem, its the patchwork team that has been assembled around him.
(ignoring the fact that BC did not make that vince move)
i don’t think bosh is the problem either, but the fact remains we are going nowhere with him leading this team as presently constructed, and we can’t “build” around him because the other players are locked into long-term contracts, and bosh is good enough to keep us somewhat competitive which just results in middling draft picks.
so as the player with the most trade value moving him remains the only viable option to build a contending team. and shitty teams do this all the time, in every sport, and the ones that do it smartly end up in a pretty good spot after a few down seasons (whether BC is the right man to put us in that spot is highly questionable, i’ll agree with you there).
those were somewhat anomalous examples so take a more traditional one: seattle/okc. totally sucked with ray allen leading that team, who wasn’t the problem there either. traded him for the 5th pick (jeff green) and expirings. because they already sucked they drafted 2nd as well (durant), kept sucking (drafted westbrook, harden), added complimentary pieces with some of the extra money, and now have the most talented young core in the league with a lot more money to spend.
i’d fucking kill to have that team in toronto. i’m all for following that model!
Plain and simple
Brakeman you’re always sticking up for the franchise player Bosh no matter how good or bad he plays. You slam most others and especially Bargnani. You and others constantly rag that we got ripped taking Bargs 1st, and should have taken Roy etc..
Answer me a question now instead of all the Roy better than Bargs talk would you take Roy over Bosh straight up, and if Roy took Bosh’s place with everyone else the same would the raptors be better?
I’ve never said Roy before Andrea because 8 other teams screwed that up and you do the same thing for Andrea. Portland would take Bosh over Andrea in a second. Hedo was supposed to do for us whar Roy does for Portland at the end of the shot clock and in game winning shots, guys like Roy and Hedo have more room to operate in, its easier for teams to crowd front court players thats why almost all of them don’t get the ball in late game situations.
You never answered my question. Would you take Roy over Bosh and what would the Raptors be like with the the switch..better or worse?
Hey Triano since you’re not getting fired and we’re not likely to see any trades and I have no idea what you’re actually trying to get these guys to do on the floor, how about we try some basic basketball play to get better.
1) Play a real man to man defense with no bulls**t switches and doubles. Most teams do not have real dominant guys that require more than one good defender. Also only switch when absolutely impossible not to. I believe the results will improve and this way you and all of us armchair strategists can see who really plays defense and who should be subbed quicker. No more blaming bigs for guards that go off, or bigs that score while our big is covering a guard. Your defense sucks so go back to basics fast.
2) Offense try going back to pick’n rolls at the top with Hedo, Bosh and Bargs. It should be pretty much unstopable having three versatile bigs who can all shoot and also mix Jose in.Same goes for pick’n pops. Move the ball around. No one holds the ball for more than two seconds including the point guards. Make these guys pass, shoot or dribble penetrate within two seconds of getting the ball, no exception. Since you have no real plays and these guys may be incapable of running any these two simple things are something any player can get in their heads.
3) Last and not least let the hair on your balls grow back so you can sit with every player individually and tell them what their roll is and how you want them playing. Any exceptions they get benched! i.e. if Wright shoots again from anywhere past 10 feet he’s gone whether or not the shot is contested. You know the rest.
LOL. He has already said they are dialing in. Sounds like a plan. If Calderon is gone, what difference does it make.
Maybe Turk finished with a decent stat line, but he was 5-3-4 6 minutes in and 8-5-5 with 6 minutes left. He did nothing when the game was getting out of hand.
Being at the game, every single time they had a chance to gain some momentum after a stop or a nice bucket, they failed. Either gave up an open look, had a bad TO, missed an open J. This team has no sense of moment. Also, I don’t think they went to Bosh enough. When things aren’t going well why not get your best player more involved?
I’m beginning to blame Triano more each day.
…And Bosh had five turnovers in the game. What is your point? Bosh throughout the game was hardly able to operate in the post. He even missed a wide open dunk. Physical players cause Bosh a lot of problems.
Very few players get triple doubles in the league. Hedo nearly got one. I agree he has been terrible but in this game he was fine.
He got half his triple double in the first 6 minutes! So he was very good for that time, and did nothing the rest of the game. In the last 42 minutes, he accumulated 7 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists. How is that acceptable when Bosh’s play isn’t?
I get that Bosh had 5 TOs, we all get it. My point is that the Atlanta D was keying on Bosh, he made plays to get others involved, and they didn’t come through. Was Bosh great? No. He shouldn’t need to be great every game if we want a chance to win, but he does. If Bosh has an off game, it’s VERY unlikely the Raps win. Even against Indy he was a beast in the final 5 minutes to seal it after missing everything all night.
“In the last 42 minutes, he accumulated 7 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists. How is that acceptable when Bosh’s play isn’t?”
First of all he did not play the entire game. For the entire game he played 34:26. Remember the game was out of reach by the end of the second quarter.
About the Indy game, I agree Bosh played great. But that is against a team that does not play physical and is a below 500 team. Bosh excels in those situations.
Bosh has excelled in all other situations this year. Atlanta is the only team that has really had his number so far. Yes he had turnovers, but the law of averages says that that is an anomaly for him, so I don’t really mind giving him a pass for having 3 more turnovers than usual against the only team he seems to have trouble with.
To take another run at this if I may, it became apparent last night (to me, at least) that the Raptors have the talent to be a good NBA team; they really do. What they don’t have is a workable plan. Defensively, we’ve seen this throughout most of their games up to now, but last night, as I compared (for only a few minutes, admittedly … but nevertheless) the Trail Blazers/Cavs game to the Raptors/Hawks game, three of those four teams really knew what they were doing on offense. The fourth team was the Raptors. Comparing to the other three, they had no clue. The same thing was glaring at me the game before against the Bucks. Offensively, the Bucks just looked like they knew what they were doing. There were offensive sets that were effectively run (and were actually very nice to see) … and there was so little of that from the Raptors, it really started to break through to my own unwilling consciousness during that game, that maybe our coaching really did suck. Last night, I had to admit it to myself, fully and completely.
This isn’t a matter of ‘gelling’ or any of that other bullshit. It’s a simple matter of current Raptors coaching that isn’t up to par with most of the rest of the NBA.
We do have the players that should be able to compete in a far stronger fashion than we’re seeing, but, I now believe that as long as JT is our head coach, we are doomed to … what we see out there right now. As a honking diehard, that’s a tough one to absorb.
Someone said that dogs develop the personality of their master . So Triano who seems confused most of the time and is afraid to chew up his players after mistakes are made , makes his players confused , timids and not sure of themselves.
Agreed 100%. Let’s kill this “Fire BC” shit before it begins. The quality of the players clearly isn’t the biggest issue with this team.
Agreed 100%. The biggest problem Colangelo has had is finding the right coach. We had a good cast every year Colangelo has been here but each coach we’ve had had and has no idea how to coach a team of overpaid players, especially when the Raptors organization partially sabotaged the team by having to make Bosh the suoerstar after Carter left so they could sell tickets to the idiots and kids who know nothing of basketball but need a star to worship.
B.C. has recruited and signed great talent that our coach cannot get to play properly together. They basically play pick up ball.
To me the big issue is the bench – a 2 point game at the end of the 1st quarter became a 12 point game very quickly when the bench players were in – they couldn’t score, they couldn’t rebound, and and they couldn’t defend
that can’t be right? You’re saying our defense and rebounding suffered when Bargnani left the game? I thought he was the root of everything?
Look, I jest, but you are exactly right. We went into the crapper when Andrea left the game, yet he gets so much hate.
Hey, I can’t hear Jack and Wright complaining about their coach and team mates today, how come? Maybe because…
?
Question: Who Has A Bigger Head, Zaza Pachulia Or Jason Kidd’s Son?? I’m Sayin’ J Kidd’s Kid, And He’s Gotta Be Like 14… And His Head Is Twice The Size Of His Daddy’s!
magic, nets thats why Sam doesn’t work here anymore. can anyone name the starting five from those two playoff teams ?
Nets :
Mikki Moore
Vince Carter
Jason Kidd
Richard Jefferson
the 4th I’m unsure about but I know Krsitic started the year (it may have been Cliff Robinson come playoff time)
Orlando
Dwight Howard
Rashard Lewis
Hedo Turkoglu
Jameer Nelson
Keith Bogans
The nets were a relatively weak team… Orlando was not.
For the nets it was Jason Collins. He gave Bosh all sorts of problems.
Krsitic had a season ending injury that year.
that I remember… jsut couldn’t remember who replaced him
Chris you have a point but you still have to get rid of the underperforming big contracts, so by trading Bosh you just have a bunch of young players stuck behind overpaid vets that you have to play to get your money’s worth.