Seems like after 3 months or so of playing together, that December 3rd was the first time the Raptor players and coaches decided to talk to each other. I’m totally blown away with this revelation Feschuk dropped on us today:
“A lot of times we let the simple things – a guy being from Italy – make the decision on whether you want to talk to that guy, or to the next guy,” said Antoine Wright, the California-born reserve swingman. “If we want to win, we need to talk to each other. (The meeting) did a good job in addressing that problem.”
Ok…so talking is good, but these guys haven’t been talking to each other for 3 months. What the f*ck is going on in that dressing room, or in that huddle?
Wright: “Dude, when I pop off that screen you need to hit me with the rock man”
Belinelli: (Blank Stare … Turns to Bargnani) “Che cosa è questo tizio dice?”
Bargnani: (Shrugs)
Belinelli: (Turns back to Wright) “Ok”
What may be worse is Bosh and Turkoglu had nothing to say…
I fully blame this on Triano. You don’t know what’s going on in your own house, and you wait until you’re 20 games in to do something about it?
We have nine new guys and guys are still trying to figure out who’s who, how to talk to somebody, what buttons to push for some people – and that goes from coaches to players, and from players to coaches.
So the plan you had sucked and didn’t work. You let things deteriorate until your role players call everyone out in the media before deciding to do something else? This is the guy USA Basketball has on staff for international experience? A dude who doesn’t know how to get Italians and Californians to communicate? Luckily they have enough talent to overcome strategic shortcomings like this, unfortunately, the Raptors dont. #FMT
…buy a t-shirt.
79 Raps
Flashcards.
Thank you.
ahaha YES!!!!!!
Colangelo is discussing contract with Dr. Phil.
Hilarious post. Once it again it baffles the mind how Antoine Wright has become a pseudo-spokesperson for the team and by my estimation is at this point the worst player so far this year!
antoine wright is the mike james of team spokesmen.
lol!
worst player on the team…or league? i guess it’d be both.
I think a good start to charge up this team would be for someone to Bitch Slap Wright upside the head for even daring to talk when he’s been by far the worst player on this team….No question he is the Mike James of team spokesmen as cb says but at least James hit some of his shots!!!
If Triano decides to start this clown he’s a way bigger idiot than I ever thought, and knowing he’s waited until now to try to get these guys talking should be cause for immediate dismissal if he was given the only contract he should have been which is a one year deal!!
Antoine Wright isn’t one of the worst players in the league. He’s a serviceable deep bench player. A non-rotation guy. Someone who come in and play solid defense when the club needs him (injuries, foul trouble, loss of form to better players).
If he’s a team’s 12th-to-15th player then he’s an asset. Wright needs to be the fifth or sixth choice wing on a team.
If he’s asked to be a rotation player then Wright is a major liability. He’s too limited as a player to be that.
they need paul newman.. or at least paul newman salad dressing in that locker room.
I wonder just how much salad tossing goes on during halftime?
LMFAO
I would assume none since one would assume that communication would be paramount in a salad tossing ordeal….
Wow….Bosh & Hedo did not talk !!!!
If you are not going to lead,get the fuck out of the way and let someone else lead….a leader isn’t always the top scorer.
i’ll take the wizards, -3.5
I think we need to bring jose and barney off the bench until they start to play better… I think if they play agaist weaker players from the bench they can regain confidenece and trust in there game. Now saying that we bring in Johnson to see how he fairs against the starting lineup of other teams. He is playing well and I would like to see what he does with more minutes under his belt. Now that being said we put jarret jack as starter as he is playing better ball and he is a bit better of a defender than jose. This will increase the number of rebounds and over all toughness of the starting lineup. We do not need to keep jacking up 3’s as some nights we miss like 60 percent of them. Run the plays for amir, bosh and turk. This could be temperary but if necessorry keep it going until jose and barni starts playing better and when I mean better they have to smoke the 2 line up guys that they play againstthat come off the bench. This method is sort of a D-league method of rehibilitating players who are not playing well in the starting lineup. I want to see benelli play more as well
Wat u guys say?
Wont Amir just foul out by halftime, if he starts?
I disagree. We have Bargnani on a five year $50 million contract with a poison pill so he’s not going anywhere and ruining his confidence when he’s putting up great offensive numbers is plain dumb because he’ll still be here next year and Bosh will not. I say get Bargnani a personal coach / trainer to help him develop his defense and overall game because he’s worth the investment..after all that money a few hundred grand is nothing.
Start Belinelli instead of DD, and if Triano feels he can work this then Jack for Jose. Also you cannot forget that Jose, DD and Bargnani are not the only guys who have not played good defense…Bosh and Turk have also been way under par!
At the very least we have lots of drama with this years edition of the Toronto Raptors. Winning would be better…
I simply can’t believe it.
I don’t believe that Andrea isn’t slapped after each game if he miss defensive rotation. I don’t believe that an NBA team doesn’t review their own game and don’t discuss how to get better.
Or is some sort of Canadian habit or its too weird to be true.
When Andrea was in Treviso and miss a defensive rotation more than once, or forget a part of the offense scheme he was going to be pined and yelled and everything that’s normal in a group that play together
I believe that Andrea is a guy that doesn’t talk too much, that work hard to become better and that listen to all critic coming from a reasonable source. And no, Mitchell isn’t considered a reasonable source by any mean.
very very strange
Andrea misses alot of rotations, but I think alot of fans put WAYYY to much focus on his defensive misgivings and ignore other players who just as frequently miss rotations- Turk, Jose, Derozan, Bosh, oh wait, that’s everyone. You take Bargnani’s 15-20 pts per night out of the equation and see if we start winning more games. Dude is a legit shot blocker too. He gives up alot of points in the paint, but so does CB, and Jose, re-blow bys.
lol…does anybody see turk out there. its like he’s moving in quick sand……bargnani is the teams whipping boy.
2 games ago Turk F’d up D and got burnt to the basket. He then started barking that Bargs should have rotated to help him, but in that case it would have made no sense. I wonder if Bargs is the team’s whipping boy as well as the media/fans? I have no problem with criticism when a guy messes up, but as long as the same approach is taken to all the players including CB.
lol.cb get criticized?the dude has been horrid on d is totally stat grabbing for a payday has not been a team player all season. cb will never get criticized by our moron media and radio guys,they all scream, “LOOK AT HIS STATS”.that in turn feeds the other brainless iq challenged dorks who start finger pointing at the euros. only one person used to tell it like it is and that was arsenalist.now chewbaca(raps fan) and crackhead (alt raps) have gotten to him and he’s been brainwashed as well.
chris bosh = mats sundin.
I was just sayin the same thing to a coworker here who’s not into basketball when he commented “wow, chris bosh’s #’s are way up this year”. I knew within the first 5 mins of our last couple of losses that we would lose once I saw the whole “dump the ball into bosh and see what he does” offense unfolding. Dude has been a beast on rebound though, no arguing that, and he is a good offensive weapon. But we need a team, not a franchise player. Sharing the ball=win.
Absolutely…but unfortunately I believe it will be easier for Triano to make Bargs pay the price because Hedo is the big free agent signing who’s done nothing and Bosh is the superstar who does no wrong. Amir will not replace Bargs points and neither will Bosh alone or Turk or others. Look at the stat lines from recent games from the best teams like Lakers, Suns, Celtics and look at shot distribution…most times all the starters or most get 8 to 15 shots. They do not normally have one guy taking 22 to 26 shots..those teams win sometimes and lose important games.
I agree mauro, it’s too weird to be true. I played some organized basketball when I was a kid in italy (I played agaist Benetton Treviso youth teams often and even against Stella Azzurra once) and let me tell ya, here (as everywhere) coaches kick your ass for a missed defensive rotation even when you are fourteen and the next day it’s suicides.
And I can’t believe that California-Italy shit either. I’ve been in California for a while as a sixteen years old speaking a terrible english and in a couple of days I was having normal relationships with guys from Sacramento, China, Argentina and Japan. If you don’t wanna talk with a guy because he’s italian or american or whatever it’s not a little thing, mr wright, it’s just being an idiot.
Hopefully this was the tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY
“You laughing now?!” Change the word “leads” to “defence” and done.
ABC
Man, I can’t believe what I just read (Feschuk’s report – thanks Raps Fan). How could they be spending the kind of money that they spend on payroll and not be making sure these guys are TALKING to each other? It sure explains some of the body language I thought I spotted between some of them.
Anyone who’s ever been a part of a corporate weekend or even a day of ‘team-building exercises’, comical as it might sound to some, knows that they have an affect and often, a large one. So … how is it even possible that it wouldn’t be noticed that some of these guys were as (obviously) cool (in a cold way) with each other in the dressing room? No wonder there seemed to be way more ‘politics’ going on than any team should ever have. Geez.
If they get a handle on it, it could be a whole new beginning. In a good way. We can hope so, anyway.
I think this is going to be a problem of any team where there are 9 new faces. I know we love to assume the worst, but hopefully this will be something they can grow from.
I agree. But really, all the more reason to have targeted from the beginning, the large issue that it seems to have been. But, yes. If they’re even only beginning to ‘talk’, we should start to see a different team out there. Hopefully starting tonight.
Maybe It Is Time to Stop Blaming the Coach in Toronto
December 4, 2009
Maybe It Is Time to Stop Blaming the Coach in Toronto
December 4, 2009 ·
The Toronto Raptors lost to the Atlanta Hawks by 31 points on Wednesday night.
The loss gave the Raptors 13 defeats in their first 20 games. The team’s efficiency differential – offensive efficiency (points scored per possession) minus defensive efficiency (points surrendered per possession) – of -5.9 suggests the Raptors are only going to win about 26 games in 2009-10. In sum, the only NBA team in Canada isn’t very good…………………..
Although DeRozan’s production is quite low, it’s well beyond what the Raptors are getting from Antoine Wright. Last season Wright produced -2.4 wins. This season he’s on pace to produced -5.0 wins.
Turkoglu, DeRozan, and Wright are not the only players the Raptors added. Toronto also added Amir Johnson, Marco Belinelli, and Jarret Jack. Of this trio, only Johnson was above average last season (WP48 of 0.145). And of this trio, only Johnson is above average this season (WP48 of 0.169).
Of the players who have played 200 minutes this season, only Bosh, Calderon, and Johnson are above average. Everyone else – and that includes Andrea Bargnani [WP48 of 0.043], Belinelli, DeRozan, Jack, Turkoglu, and Wright – are below average.
comp article here
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/maybe-it-is-time-to-stop-blaming-the-coach-in-toronto/
The Toronto Raptors lost to the Atlanta Hawks by 31 points on Wednesday night.
The loss gave the Raptors 13 defeats in their first 20 games. The team’s efficiency differential – offensive efficiency (points scored per possession) minus defensive efficiency (points surrendered per possession) – of -5.9 suggests the Raptors are only going to win about 26 games in 2009-10. In sum, the only NBA team in Canada isn’t very good.
Sorry for the duplication at the bottom of the post. My bad.
Asked if there was a split between the players from different sides of the Atlantic Ocean – and the Raptors employ six players born in Europe – Chris Bosh, the Texas-bred captain, said: “It wasn’t a split, in my opinion. It was more so just not knowing how to relate to different guys. Sometimes you’re going to want to call somebody out if they don’t rotate (on defence). Instead of calling somebody out because they didn’t do their job or they’re not playing hard, we kind of just kept it quiet. The more quiet you are, sometimes things get divided … We can’t be afraid to challenge each other. It’s for the better sake of this team.”
Actually, instead of making youtube videos and DVDs, you as the #1 star on the team SHOULD be calling out your teammates, and not relying on a 1-hour meeting behind closed doors. GIVE ME A BREAK. Leaders lead, Bosh isn’t one of them. He would be a great player beside a leader, like an Oak. but we don’t have that – Evans is the closest. If his injury wasn’t so mysterious, he’d be talking by now. He was even quoted that as a ROOKIE he stood up and shot his mouth at his teammates. Never seen CB0 do that in my life, (well I’m exaggerating, maybe once).
I don’t know if Johnson has said anything about this since he has been with the Raptors but when he was with the Pistons he mentioned more than a couple of times that Sheed kept getting on him to talk on defense.
There needs to be a leader on the floor among the big, i.e. those on the back line who will constantly yap to the other four guys to switch, to double, to run to cover an open man etc etc. It has to come from a player preferably in the middle of court on the back line who has the best vision of what is happening on the court.
He has to load and vocal. He has to know how to read what the opponent is trying do. He has to know who to double team and who to leave alone and give these directions to the other guys who then need to listen to him and be able to execute in real time mode.
We do need a guy like that..and for the life of me I can’t see anyone, other than maybe Evans, stepping up and taking that responsibility. Unless they teach the whole team to speak Italian..
and btw amir is 4>>
=============
That is his natural position, but he like a lot of players in the league can play more than one position.
Camby who played Center for the Nuggets is playing PF for the Clippers.
I see Bosh as more a #4 than a #5.
In theory Bargnani should be able to guard most #5s since he is tall enough. The problem is that almost all centers love contact and he doesn’t. They thrive on it because usually as the biggest guy growing up they got pounded on the most when they got the ball near the basket.
Some bigs don’t like contact so they grow up wishing that they were a #2 a #3 or even a #1 and as result they start out early learning how to shoot from beyond the arc because they don’t want to go down low and mix it up.
On defense even though guards and to a certain extent the guy at the SF don’t incur a lot of hard physical contact the same is not true of the #4 and even more so the #5 I don’t believe that you can succesfully defend the #4 or #5 unless you know how to give physical punishment and love to give it.
It would like trying to be a good defenseman in hockey and not liking physical contact, impossible to say the least.
That is why Dirk to me is the prototypical big or at least in my mind the way a big should play.
He can shoot and mkae from anywhere on the court up to maybe 25 feet from the basket and will go low both on offense and defense to mix it up with anyone.
cb4 is a soft and personally i think he feels threatened by anyone challenging his status as top dog.all these years ive never heard him big-up a teammate(andrea) or hug em up on the court(andrea) or take any of the euros under his wing to make them feel more comfortable(andrea).the only euro i seen him be cool with was jose who spoon fed him look after look after look while looking off the rest of the team. calderone knew who to butter up to get his bread,vice versa…the problem is bosh our leader is a damn inferiority laden bitch…..if there is a communication issue the team leader breaks them down and should go out of his way to make the team united.
It does seem that way on camera that’s for sure. I can’t picture those 2 guys spending much time together off court that’s for sure. Bosh is probably busy getting tossed by JJ/JC and getting his hair manicured, while AB is picking out new hair wax and eating authentic penne pasta made of the finest italian ingredients…..buonitalia…
That’s almost exactly what I’ve seen from day one. You want to start with problems it starts with Bosh and Jose. The leader should not only call out teammates but help them develop, acclimatise etc..this will not happen with Bosh here as he’s a self serving bitch
seriously.when we got tj i figured tj and bosh would thrive as they were both fellow texans. i got the vibe bosh felt threatened by tj and bosh began to develop some corny anti-tj chemistry with jose which in turn made tj turn me-j and therein be shipped out….bosh and tj had zero chemistry and those two dont even talk when we face indiana. then along comes jermaine oneal and they also have zero chemistry and neither thrive on the floor together and the team suffers. who does bosh have chemistry with on this team? jose?.does bosh look to have any chemistry with turk?turks been relegated to being a non factor with bosh.every baller is a non factor with bosh..bosh is f’in weird, who does he click with on this team on the floor? its bosh against the other team.poor bosh all alone. personally all this talk of sensitivity is and should be aimed at bosh.
This has BUllshit writen all over it
Bargs is indeed the fall guy
his rotations are not good , but he has to switch ON EVERYTHING the wing and the guard players just let the opposing wings and guards fly by.We Started switching bargs on nash because he defended him beTTEr
THINK ABOUT THAT IT’S CRAZY, EVEN WORSE THAT WHORE TRIANO IS PROUD TO GET NASH AT 40% shooting HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT ?
Bosh doesn’t do shit on defense his defense is worse then bargs
when has bosh blocked a shot, not in the last 10 games =interior Defense ZERO,when he guards a big guy in the paint the big scores 90% of the time. he’s no bigman, even worse is he’s supposed to be the leader. leader of what verbal diarrhea ? The team stops playing when they realize there is no leader .
DD can’t guard jj fucking reddick
jose can’t guard the slowest pg around
turk has been a shadow of himself ,doesn’t guard blames others when he fucks up… . all the real clutch baskets we need he misses , he flops more then a soccer player from Argentina ‘the worst of all’
all they say is switch bargs for amir ,
yeah amir is the only one that seems to be playing D but don’t blame a guy for doing the same shit as his so called leader! and btw amir is 4
The leader needs to step
bosh needs grit less mvp and unappreciated talk please
nobody picked him on the pierce dunk that says all you need know about the raptors ‘leader’
“nobody picked him on the pierce dunk that says all you need know about the raptors ‘leader’”
I thought the same thing when it happened too. I even wondered if Nash/Triano/BC/Amare did a little cash in hand deal prior to the Phoenix game to orchestrate that “flagrant” on CB so the fans could see the team “react” to the hit, lol.
Amir is THE ONLY GUY who seriously plays D, and gives his best every night. Period.
So players aren’t talking to each other. I guess they need more time to gel?
This Euro experiment is a complete flop. yes our euro players can play basketball, but not North American basketball. the Nba game is more physical, more isolation sets, and played with more energy,attitude and ignorance. Now i’m not saying that it’s a better form of basketball, but that’s the league there playing in. NO other franchise has so many different players starting at the same time from around the world. there’s no communication because everyone communicates differently, and will perceive information differently. THIS CAN’T WORK!!! blow it up
Bullshit
in euro fouls are harder to get
they play way less
example ZAZA is so SOFT
btw this one of the biggest misconceptions on this board
i forgot noah so soft
zaza is tough, physical, a back up, doesn’t start and is the only non american player in the rotation.. hmm checkmate
pau and marc gasol
both great players. wish we could get ‘ONE’ of them. both playing on different teams. but also notice the difference in there attitude. there also winners on the international scene. leaders on there national team, NOT CALDERON. again i’m not putting all the blame on the euro players, it should go to Colangelo, but these Italians on the raptor squad have abosolutely no fire, no swag. if they didn’t have there names on there jersey’s you would have a difficult time believing there even italian.. A QUIET ITALIAN???!!!S
why are you bringing up their nationality?..should we address bosh as the soft african?
definitely. we all know that. you can’t start a finesse power forward, and a finesse center, and now a finese small forward. it’s no wonder teams come at us like Bulls. i guess that explains the red uniforms. MATADOR DEFENCE. that’s a spanish national past time right???? hmm
the problem here is the labeling
he has no clue what fiba basketball is like
saying all euros are soft … and he’ll defend by saying calderon and bargs are soft . who on this team is not soft ?
who has the balls to confront someone on this team ?
bosh is soft. a team is only as good as their leader .
Derozan didn’t do anything special yet, his d is suspect at best
jack has been god awful and is ripping his coach wtf
wright the same; ripping someone when he himself is part of the problem , he’s a blackhole on offense
nobody on this team has been hardnosed
amir brings effort but he ain’t going stand up to demand something
i disagree. just because your the best player, doesn’t mean you should be the leader or captain of the team. it comes down to respect, and the willingness of your teammates to follow your lead. and that was so obvious on the pierce slam over bosh. A team is suppose to be a family unit,and no one is willng to follow Bosh. Really it should be Mr. Fourth quarter Hedo. he has the most playoff experience and playoff game time under his belt, not too mention the long term contract and the backing of the GM.
“just because your the best player, doesn’t mean you should be the leader or captain of the team”
Exactly- unfortunately in this situation, BC, Triano, and CB himself, have stated that he is the Captain, The Leader. Quite frankly, how can you be a leader if you are unwilling to make a commitment to stay with the team? Who will follow a guy who might very well jump ship? So like you said, best player for sure, but…leader???
your absolutely right. I have no comment. So do you trade him, and start all over again??
You have no idea
There are many modes of communication … verbal, non-verbal like body language and even emotional signals.
When a disparate group with 9 new players get together to play in the NBA, you should expect communication failures … when there are more strangers than veterans (as I have pointed out to the t.h. fans who refuse to broach reality and live in their delusional haze of stupidity …).
It will take at least 2 seasons before this group will be comfortable with each other … just like other NBA teams have experienced with even lesser changes to their rosters.
Who the hell is Wright to talk about the team. For me it carries as much weight as POB saying he has a problem. Please remind me why i care about Wrights oppion? How about you shut the f*** up and play. How about lifting that iddy-bitty PER and your shitty shooting%. Do something on the court beofre you go running your mouth like a little bitch.
While some players said “everybody” had the floor at some point – from Bryan Colangelo, the GM, to assistant coach Alvin Williams – among those who didn’t address the team were the franchise’s two highest-paid players, Chris Bosh, the captain, and Hedo Turkoglu, the $52 million off-season acquisition.
HOW THE FUCK IS THIS POSSIBLE
the leader has nothing to say ??? .
turk got paid and bosh is looking to get his. no need to talk i suppose.
heres an email exchange between me and matt devlin.i wanted to get his take on who this teams damn leader is.
From: **** *.
To: Matt Devlin
Sent: Wed Dec 02 20:20:17 2009
Subject: hey matt
can i get your honest opinion on who is this teams leader on the floor?
Re: hey matt
From: Matt Devlin (MDevlin@TorontoRaptors.com)
Sent: December 4, 2009 9:22:35 AM
To: **********@hotmail.com
May not be the answer you want but with 9 new players, its a work in progress.
Telling. This should be a clear-cut answer for every team, if you don’t have a leader right now you won’t have a leader all season. Leadership can’t be coached, it’s either in you or it isn’t. Kinda like rebounding.
My money is on Marcus Banks, come on, if Frodo could do it….
the toughest baller on the team isn’t Reggie Evans. It’s Alvin Williams!! get that man a uniform with a “c” on it.
i totally agree. This is something the Raptors should learn from the Leafs. you just can’t force a player to be something he is not. no captain, no leadership, were sent adrift in the middle of the Atlantic (Conference)
Belinelli definitely has swagger…
Not to mention the excellent chemistry with Johnson. The communication thing is a red herring IMHO.
I can’t believe Bosh didn’t say anything… It’s supposed to HIS team for crying out loud!
Any change to the line-ups tonight?
go see Eric Smiths VLOG. There may be up to 3 changes tonight. There may be none.
The news is NO Changes toninght
I agree, this communication thing is total BS. Just another way of saying some people on this team do not like each other…surprise surprise BC putting people together who hate each other. It’s his MO…from PHX to TO he assembles guys who can’t stand each other.
“I fully blame this on Triano.”
Andrea Bargnani, 43min, 6-20, 3 BA.
stfu troll
it happends all the time that he only scores 30% of the time don’t let his nine rebounds Foul You
He got points in the fourth when they needed it, rebounded fairly well and had what his best defensive game of the season (IMO). Most importantly the team won. This was not a bad night for Bargnani by any means.
mad props to bosh u gotta give credit when credit is due…HE LED TE TEAM TO VICTORY TONIGHT. the team played like a team….if we see this effort nightly we cant say shit.
Great win.lets hope the team bonds off tonights big win and we start rollin.
if they resort to stinking it up tomorrow night.were bullshit. we need to back tonights game up with the same effort tomorrow night against the bulls or tonight is NOTHING.
Got to agree about Bosh. Tonight he came out and showed the hustle this team has been missing and had some incredible plays on the offensive glass. This was a very important game for the team and his performance has done a lot to change my opinion of him (formerly very low). And yah, if we don’t fight hard tomorrow….well that would just ruin everything.
When you start out 7-13, then play 4 teams in a row who are not elite teams. The Goal has to be to win all 4!
It’s a long way back to .500 and the Raps will have to play Elite teams again. (After Milwaukee the Raps face 4 Good teams in a row)
Bosh needs to play this well for a while to make up for the past 10 games.
And he can – if he chooses too!
And Jay Triano’s comments about not meeting with the team after games raised a big RED flag about his ability to manage players.