That’s the kind of inspired defense the Raptors should be playing.We can’t play defense because we don’t know how to play defense. There’s little anybody can do to teach us defense because defense doesn’t work that way. There’s no prosthetic for laziness and indifference which is what we’re seeing on 80% of the possessions. I’d subscribe to the “defense needs time to gel” argument if there was something there that could actually gel, but when you have two poor defensive players in Turkoglu and Calderon out there with average or below-average defenders like Bosh and Bargnani, 30th in the league sounds pretty reasonable. If it doesn’t, consider we’re playing a defensive scheme that is stretching the hell out of our players. Let’s leave defense alone, I’m used to the team letting me down there, what about our offense? Our 9M/yr PG let Steve Nash off the hook, our 10M/yr free-agent signing was invisible for 3/4 the game, we were 5% from three, and were reduced to one-on-one play. That is unexpected.
Were you one of those people who thought that since we lost by one on the road we’d surely win at home? Oh you were, well, you failed to realize that this Raptors team (like last year’s) puts out varying levels of effort depending on variables nobody has quite figured out. One thing was consistent early though, Triano switching on Nash/Amare and having a big guard Nash. I wasn’t a big fan of the strategy two weeks ago and I remain unconvinced. The only reason it worked last time was because Phoenix was a bit lazy moving the ball around and missed some pretty good looks, in that game their wings made 1 three, today they made 7. Also not a fan of conceding the advantage inside (Amare 8-10 again after going 10-15 last time) while having your bigs at the mercy of Nash. Bargnani, Bosh and Johnson were all giving him space on the switch and he was still either blowing by them or hitting jumpers – what gives?
I honestly think that simple man-defense and simple switching (1/2, 2/3 and 4/5) is the only scheme this group can play. That or zone. The idea of helping preemptively is killing us, Nash made at least three cross-court skip passes which made a weak-side defender pay for cheating over to the strong side without cause. We seem to have have this zonal switching policy that sees us switch when an offensive player moves to a different part of the court, usually when dropping down and cutting across the lane. You might remember Hedo yelling (apparently correctly) at Bargnani for not picking his man up when the replay showed that it made no sense for Bargnani to be guarding Hedo’s man. At least to me.
Phoenix anticipated Triano’s little switch strategy and went to work quickly: immediate lob pass into post leaving defender with little time to resist and the help with even less time to help. Easy buckets followed. Hedging on the PnR also wasn’t working because Nash was splitting the Raptors duo to find Amare going to the rim; with their efficient PnR working in either situation, the Raptors were already in trouble. The first time the Raptors successfully defended this play after a switch was at 3:54 of the 2nd quarter when Amir Johnson doubled Channing Frye hard after a PG had switched on him. The double came from the weak-side and left Frye with a very tough pass to find a shooter cross-court.
The Raptors were running their own PnR with moderate success, Phoenix’s defense wasn’t very good either and Calderon made some nice passes to the bigs going towards the rim. Bargnani’s head was into the game (24pts, 7rebs) and he mixed it up by hitting a three early and then having a go at Frye and Lopez on a few drives. He had 12 first quarter points (4-8 FG) and made-up for the struggling Bosh, despite that the Raptors were down 8 after the first. Why? Well, Phoenix shooting 65% might have something to do with it or maybe it had to do with the Raptors shooting 33%.
Let’s talk about passive/aggressive. DeRozan early was aggressive, he ran the break, swept across the lane and forced his teammates to look for him. He had 8 in the first quarter and was making Richardson chase him around the gym, his defense isn’t great but part of me is thinking he’s as lost as you and I when it comes to figuring out what the Raptors are supposed to be playing. It pisses me off how Jose Calderon let Nash off the hook tonight, he got outplayed in every way imaginable. He made his only field goal at 6:20 of the third quarter when it was a 13 point game. Before that he didn’t even attempt making Nash play any sort of defense, I don’t think Nash broke a sweat on D other then when Jack was going at him.
Nash is a perfect instance of the old adage of the best defense being a great offense – wear him out and he’ll have less of an impact on the game. Calderon didn’t do any of that and Nash quarterbacked and picked apart the Raptors to the tune of 20 points and 16 assists. We need more from Calderon, both offensively and defensively, and we need him to be a lot more consistent. Look at his last 6 points/assist games: 5/10, 16/4, 21/7, 6/8, 9/4 and today’s 2/7. If he can’t be a high percentage 15 ppg scorer, a consistent three point threat and an opportunistic assist man, he’s dead to me. The standards for him are higher than when he was a backup and I’m not sure anybody holds him to it. Actually, I should correct myself, Leo Rautins was indirectly ripping him a new one by praising Jack’s insistence on taking Nash to the hoop. AltRaps thought Calderon was tired from guarding Stoudemire on the switch, I don’t buy it.
If the first quarter was about Bargnani, the second was all about Bosh – 16pts and 9rebs in the second quarter, 30pts and 16rebs for the game. He was 7-10 in the quarter and as great as it was watching him to hard at Frye and Amare, it was equally painful to see our offense so stagnant and lazy that they just wanted to do the easy thing and dump the ball down to Bosh. Those who think he’s padding his stats might enjoy this analysis. The second unit’s defense was again pretty damn good, other than Jack being broken down by Goran Dragic a couple times, the defensive effort was there and to be admired. Amir Johnson (I was wrong about him) expending energy on both ends, running back down the floor to get a block in transition, and even Belinelli was fighting through those Phoenix screens effectively. Barbosa lit us up a little but overall, our defense was much better, maybe it had to do with Nash being on the bench and Jack pressuring Dragic enough that their PnR didn’t runs so smoothly.
The score at the half was 50-49 for Phoenix, the second unit had given us a lift and Bosh and Bargnani had kept us in it offensively. Our heavy dependence on one-on-one play was concerning but you hoped that our starters would pick it up defensively and our effort would be better in the second half. Hedo Turkolgu was 1-4 with 0 assists at the half and a complete liability against Hill and Richardson, he looked slow, lazy and was overall terrible. Did we overpay for him? Yes, but we already knew that. I still think Triano needs to run the offense through him much more and as we saw in the second half at times, he can actually score, you know. Phoenix’s percentage fell to 53% and the Raptors were up to 39%. Not great by any means but at least a hot Bosh/Bargnani and a cold Phoenix meant that this was still a game.
That foul on Bosh. It wasn’t a flagrant by any means and even though it was more than your average foul, I’m not sure this was one where a “reaction” was needed or sought from the team. I thought it was absolutely hilarious that Devlin was pretending that the Raptors had somehow reacted differently than to how they did in Boston. To me the reaction was the exact same – indifference and mild interest. Note to Iavaroni: You don’t need to hold the bench back, they wouldn’t come out to cut the nets if we won the championship.
Another hilarious Toronto bullshit media moment. Elliotte Friedman reports that the Suns all wanted their video guy to cue up the Bosh/Pierce incident so they could see if the Raptors were pussies or not. He then posed a stupid question to Nash at halftime regarding the incident and Nash was like, “I have no idea what happened on Friday”. I don’t say this much but….LOL!!!
Onto the second half and after allowing a 33 point first quarter, we allowed a 34 point third. We gave up a 16-4 run which I blame firstly on the players for coming out as if they were in a haze and leaving Frye, Hill and Richardson wide open for back-breaking threes. Jose Calderon was brutal in this period, couldn’t get his own offense going, couldn’t set up shots for his teammates, conceded everything to Nash on defense and wasted chunks of time off the shot-clock leaving the tail end of it for Bargnani and Bosh to chuck up contested 1-on-1 shots. Hedo Turkoglu did not even attempt a shot in this stretch which is unexplainable and something Colangelo is bound to note. The transition defense suffered as well as Phoenix ran it back make-or-miss, we were slow to pick up our checks in transition and Phoenix barely had to make two passes before they found an open shooter. Classic Raptors D.
Secondly, I blame Triano for once again not calling a timeout until the team was down 17 points. How do you let a 1 point deficit turn into 17 without calling a timeout in between? As I said after the Boston game, this team needs serious hand-holding to get through tough times and Triano’s completely wrong in his thinking that the players can pick each other up and find their way. He needs to do some, you know, coaching. I thought he should’ve inserted Jack and Johnson much earlier in the third quarter since those two were bringing the most defensive energy offensive enthusiasm, both of which we desperately lacked.
After being down 17, the Raptors went on a 9-2 run, Hedo finally drove the ball to the rim and got a three-point play out of it, Jack took Nash to the rim again for two and Bargnani attacked for a dunk. Three things that should’ve been happening all game long, not sure why our PGs didn’t attack theirs every chance and no idea why Hedo was so invisible. You have to look at coaching here, Triano should’ve communicated to his PGs and team that Hedo needs to be more involved, maybe even run some high-screens for him against Dudley who has little chance of staying with him. This little spurt meant we were down only 8, could we finally hold the defense to something like a 20 point quarter and win this game?
No.
We gave up 29 points in the fourth and scored only 18. It started nice enough with another Hedo three-point play but after that things went south as Phoenix went on an 8-2 run to push it to 11. Hedo was being aggressive but the defense was up to task as Phoenix collapsed to slow him down. This Phoenix team, unlike previous versions, can play defense in spots so they could be a threat in the playoffs this year. The Raptors offense tried to keep up and finally started moving the ball, they got rewarded by getting clean looks at threes which Belinelli and Jack just couldn’t knock down. Belinelli got burned by Barbosa on a key hoop and couldn’t provide any offense or playmaking, he’s basically in ‘famine’ mode these days. His last five games P/R/A: 0/3/0, 5/0/0, 7/0/2, 11/2/3, 4/0/4. Yeah, he’s struggling. When you get that kind of production from him and another 0-4 from Wright, two key bench players, you will shoot 39% from the game.
Worst of all, we ended up going 1-20 from three and our most potent offensive weapons of Bosh and Bargnani combined to go only 1-6 in the final quadrant. Those missed Jack threes really hurt and I felt if they had gone down the team might’ve played a little more inspired down the stretch. It’s a bad loss and we’re four games under .500. At some point this team needs to figure out what kind of defense to play, one that doesn’t ask too much of the players but at the same time is reliable enough to be 18-23 in the league or so. Triano, ball’s in your court. Iavaroni too, he’s supposed to be a defensive specialist, right? It will be very interesting to see how the team approaches three winnable games this week, anything less than 3-1 will be a disappointment.
I’m trying to stay positive. We’re 7-11, the December schedule is slightly easier and we need to go 10-5 or 11-4, taking us to a couple games over .500 by the new year. We’re 10th in the conference right now and the record doesn’t bother me, the defense does.
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Good read, makes me really re-think Calderon’s entire game. His first quarter seemed good because he really set up his bigs to score some points. After that, he pretty much aborted himself. I have a Calderon jersey, I burned it after the game.
The Sunday game against Phx was not as bad a loss as the score might suggest. We held them under 100 points til there was 4 min left in the game. And for once our defence was about as close to full potential as possible, for us, at this time; we kept them covered and every time we jumped with the shooter, they missed. It wasn’t perfect, obviously, but with everything we did better under their bucket we were a little weak under our own. At least half a dozen break aways in the clear at the 3pt line were passed off to disappointing results. If we fix these areas next time we meet up with the Nash bash, could be a win or at least a tie… half a dozen 3pts=18… how much did we lose by?
yo I didn’t quite get the point about the nash quote….
well, dingle-nuts elly tried to make the pierce/bosh ‘incident’ (and subsequent non-reaction of the team) seem like something the whole league should give two shits about, and nash correctly threw it back at him.
what?!!???
you mean BoshCrownedKickedBalls-gate isn’t on CNN right now?
hahaa
Perhaps the Raptor’s talent level has been overestimated and they are not very good individually or as a team. In the summer, I did predict that Bosh would be padding his stats for max money status .. which he will not get from BC and the MLSE .. and the rest of the team knows Bosh is gone sooner or later, and the rebuild will continue in some haphazard manner.
The Raptors have been ‘under construction’ (or destruction) for the past several seasons … and to rectify the current situation will take more than a few ‘miracle’ trades or draft picks.
What we may be witnessing is the disintegration of the Raptors as a functional bball team … ever think of that ..??!!!
What happen to the promise you made about not posting here if the raps don’t go 3-30?
I think FAQ has decided to be wrong about everything and to sound like a jackass doing it.
Noble cause…
When Bosh took a knee from Pierce and fell writhing in pain, nobody came over to help him. Perhaps that is indicative of the contempt the other players have for Bosh in his blatant attempt to pad his stats to get a max money contract at the expense of the rest of the team.
Bosh is the tribal honker’s hero .. but in the locker room he may be an unpopular pariah … ever think of that ..???!!!!
Ever think about upping your meds so you can interact productively with society?
Ever think of that???!!!!!!
Go back to yer masturbation schedule .. ya jerkoff ..!!!
Listen I appreciate that your delusions are your only friends but working me in their sexually…that’s just a little uncomfortable. Just stick with the imaginary world you’re comfortable with and I think we’ll all be better off.
Nice picture of Turkoglu getting fouled by Nash!
Think anyone on the Raps could put a hand in Nash’s chest and swipe at the ball without a call?
puh-lease.
The record doesn’t really bother me either. The Raps are still ahead of where I thought they’d be at this point in the season.
But I am very concerned that Triano hasn’t got a clue as to why the Raps are playing the way they are. (But I hear a very experienced Head Coach just became available)
You mean the guy who would own the worst start in league history if he weren’t fired? If anything this season has shown, it’s that the coach doesn’t make that much of a difference. Other than New Jersey, the two teams with the worst record in the Eastern Conference are New York and Washington. Haven’t Raptors fans been clamouring for guys like D’Antoni and Saunders? Have they made a difference on their own teams?
Do you think maybe Nash was lying about not seeing the Boston play? As in, not wanting to admit it so there was no admission of intent?
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If he was … that’s a great acting job.
Must be a Canadian way.
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The Raptors will go 8-7 next month, even though the opponants are easier, we have a few back to back on the road and I also think the Raptors can’t beat the teams they are “supposed” to beat in a consistent enough fashion.
15-18 record by 2010.
Hopefully Reggie comes back soon.
For me the next month is dependent on how they digest the last month. If they get all draggy and oh poor me than I think you’re right. If they get a couple of bottom feeders under their belt and feel good about themselves than I think we could be in for a nice run.
Gman says: “For me the next month is dependent on how they digest the last month.” … Now I call that really insightful … “digest” … wonder if that means if they are constipated or maybe have diarrhea and are shitting it up all over the court … ya think ..???
I’d like to enjoy this little back and forth but having a battle of the wits with an unarmed douche isn’t particularly fun. If you’re going to insult me or my remarks can you contextualize them properly…the point I was making was that confidence is an intrinsic part of performance and if the last month kneecaps that then a culture of losing might be the result…
If I need to degrade my comments to the monosyllabic variety…glad to do it. Hell I’ll even throw in a few cartoon drawings so you have something to make you giggle over your fruit loops.
Another thing is that when you’re trying to be funny or cutting with your words, it’s best to actually attack something substantively, if you invent something and then attack that, it’s just kind of sad.
Remember the red pill every two hours and the jacket ties in the back…
Triano makes the point after the game, saying “I wouldn’t take away one shot from any of our guys … we’ll do the same thing the next time we play.”
I don’t think he really gets it.
Also, I wonder if Reggie sits at home, reading some of the comments written by fans in all the places that they speak, wondering to himself what the hell he ever did to make people think he was going to be some kind of savior? Does he ever think to himself, “but, I haven’t even played a single regular season game yet, for this team!”
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Reggie’s impact will not be the quality of his play.
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I know our D is horrible. But we’re 7-11 after a pretty brutal schedule. I mean even Charlotte after their Jackson trade have been stomping on teams like they did to us earlier in the week.
As the schedule lightens up and hopefully our D improves slightly, we’ll start to string some W’s together.
Losing is part of the game, 7-11 to start is not the end of the world.
The problem people have is how we are losing these games. By the 4th quarter we already know the result, most of our fans are tuning out. It’s sad when you realize that the 4th quarter is enjoyed and treasured by hard playing clubs around the league.
Is there anywhere that we can find scoring efficiency broken down by play run or by situation?
Ie. what is the Raps’ efficiency when Bosh takes it to the hoop as opposed to shooting a J? When Bargs launches from 3PT range, same question?
My impression is that the least efficient play for them this year among any of the core players who SHOULD be shooting (ie. Bosh, Bargs, Turk, Calderon and Belinelli) is a Bosh jumper b/c the spacing that they give him leaves no one in position to grab the board and he’s not hitting a higher % of those shots than other guys on the team. I’d slightly back off of that when Amir’s on the floor.
When Bosh shoots Js we lose our best rebounder. It doesn’t make sense.
Other offensive notes:
I like to see DeRozan working hard to earn shots and demand more on offence. I’d like to see him take minutes away from Antoine Wright – Wright’s terrible shot selection negates whatever good he does on the defensive side of the ball.
I love Amir Johnson’s shot chart. He never ever shoots outside the restricted area. Antoine should take a memo on that.
Are you trying to fix our offense? ;)
The defence is beyond fixing. Plus, we seem to play our best with poor defensive players like Bargnani and Belinelli on the floor.
Belinelli actually has been half decent defensively this season.
Can we please stop labelling only a few players on the raptors as bad in defense. They all stink.
The first person you should take into account is our franchise player. Forget about great defense, has he played any good defense. Bosh has padded his stats in the first half but has been terrible on the defensive end.
This board loves to criticize barg (I am not a barg supporter). Even when he performs well, this board criticizes him. The last few years he was being criticized for not delivering on the offensive end. The last one and half years he has proven everyone wrong. This year his numbers have gone up in every category. He is shooting ~50 FG, ~40% 3PT, ~90% FT and even his rebounding numbers have increased.
When barg played in Italy, his position was small forward. When he joined the Raptors, Smitch used him as a small forward. He was yanked in and out of the lineup at will without any plan. Last year he played as a backup centre on the second unit. He only became a starter when Jermaine O’Neal got injured. He has hardly played at this position in his career.
The centre position is one of the most difficult potions to play defensively. Bynum was coached in the last few years by Kareem Abdul Jabber and look how he is has developed. For every success there are failures like Kwame Brown and Michael Olowokandi who also were coached. Wouldn’t it be logical for the raptors to invest in a coach for Barg to improve at the centre position. It is a small investment that could pay huge dividends in the future for the raptors.
Belli’s role is a shooter to score for the second unit and is and he was never labeled as a defensive stopper when he joined the raptors. How was Antoine Wright’s defensive play against Phoenix? He was terrible and this is suppose to be our great defensive player. In the Phoenix game Belli was one of the few raptors to have + rating on the floor.
uh, yeah. aside from a brief period where they tried him as the starting 3 along with bosh & JO last year, he’s been a 4 (when bosh is out of the game) or a 5 (when playing alongside bosh). this isn’t ‘new’ to him, he’s just not very good at the fundamental aspects one would usually expect from a centre. he is good at non-fundmental things we wouldn’t normally associate with a centre – he’s an excellent shooter, has much more quickness on the perimeter than most 5’s, etc.
i guess the thing is…sometimes it’s easy to overlook bosh’s shortcomings, because more often than not, he makes up for it in other areas. what seems to be missing from bargs’ game is that ability to do the ‘other’ things when one aspect of his game isn’t working. defense & rebounding is about, more than anything, hustle, focus & awareness. even when bosh’s shot isn’t falling, he doesn’t allow that to impact his focus on rebounding & defense (and no, i’m not implying that he’s some great defender – he’s limited as well – but what we rarely see is long stretches of game where he doesn’t appear to be into it. if you simply watch other guys (namely hedo & bargs), if they aren’t directly involved, they tend to float – you can blame that on the attention bosh gets on offensive end if you like, but it’s up to them to remain involved in the game.
If Bosh is so focused during the game, why is that his stats (pads his stats in the first half of games) suffer in the third and fourth quarters. When we need our franchise player to rise and perform in the 4th quarter he becomes irrelevant. Bosh is a very good rebounder but his defense is terrible (Barg is no better). Bosh gets easily pushed by physical players even with the added weight and muscle. Stop complaining about other players. The franchise player has to deliver when it counts. Zach randolph and Elton brand are 20/10 players. Would you want them leading our team?
blame bosh for there crappy defence??? so you want bosh, to guard there best big, rebound 10+ a game, average 20+ a night, and defend the key for the entire game all season?? lol. i can tell you never balled before. he would make it too end of the season. originally the Center is the position that is the backbone of the defence, block shots, reboundingl. check the history of the position. If Bosh is doing all this, what’s left for Bargnani to do beshide throwing up the three point shots, then giving back the points on the opponents next position. plllllllllllllleaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeee
trizzo says: Nov 30, 2009 at 6:18 am
Are you trying to fix our offense? ;)
Trizzo, that’s exactly what I thought when I read the comments from ws511….I was like really, are you kidding me? Are the Raptors not in the top 5 in terms of offensive efficiency in the league?
Ws511 – You’re giving them a lecture on offense?
Trizzo – Your response was classic…..Hit my top 5 responses of all time…
Trizzo – I was doing excessive amount of shrugging and blinking reading ws511 comments..
The point I was thinking of RG, is that sometimes, that wide-open shot that Triano said he wouldn’t ‘take away’ is just the one that the other team wants you to take, for THEIR own good reasons. There were a few of those during yesterday’s game that I’d say fit that category. Hope the blinking and twitching has calmed down.
You didn’t mean “Calderon” in your sixth last paragraph so who did you mean to say, “Johnson”?
Arsenalist,
Perhaps you can give me a reason to be hopeful about this year and beyond. I haven’t thrown in the towel just yet, but I’m sick and tired of being so damn mediocre. Bosh is a beast and reminds me of Roy Halladay…just another star player in Toronto playing for a franchise that doesn’t deserve him. At this point, I hope he walks because what we have needs to be rebuilt. I just wish the ‘toughness’ issue would have actually been addressed.
Toughness? Sure, but what I think is more concerning is the lack of conditioning with this team right now. I don’t think it comes as a surprise of why we struggle as much as we have during the 2nd halves of games this season. These guys are dragging ass. Most notably Hedo. It’s like he smoked a carton of Camel Lights at half time because he looks exhausted. Same could be said for Bargnani, Wright & Jose too.
Perhaps Jay needs to push these guys a little harder in practice to better condition themselves for the rigors of an 82 game season. Or utilize his bench more often and moderate minutes to some of this starters because them playing tired is only doing more harm than good. :(
The conditioning concerns me as well. Regardless of how tough they’ve had it in October (and lets be serious, did their conference rivals make up this sched?), they are getting beat out too easily.
When they play with intensity, they are a great team to watch. We’ve seen it. Even on the defensive end (too occasionally). They can only bring that intensity for short spurts and then all of a sudden they go from running and communicating to these long drawn out half court sets…and then they don’t run back on defense and the lay up line on the other end begins.
Faster subbing maybe? Just to keep the energy up. As soon as someone stops running you swap them out. Have them play the game like they’re doing wind sprints. The off shoot of playing that way for a while is that they will be forced to build up the wind, so that when they do settle in to the occasional half court set they wont lose their momentum or intensity.
Gman says: “The conditioning concerns me as well.” … WOW .. great observation … better email Triano to tell him of your concerns because yer comments are so insightful. Maybe you should apply for assistant coach or toilet cleaner in the locker room.
haha. Hey FAQ, I see yo’re trying to get back at Gman but, I hate to say it, he still has the upper hand with his “medication” comment.
The difference between you and I is that I don’t profess to be a basketball know it all…and I don’t see spiders crawling all over me in a Vietnam flashback, but I digress.
Again FUFAQ you decontextualized part of my remark, assuming that says something. I was actually responding to the fact that the previous poster had expressed a concern over conditioning. I was agreeing with him. I was taking part in a discussion in a forum. That’s what most of us are doing here…still not sure what the hell you’re doing here.
If you have an issue with the conditioning comment than you should take it up with the person who actually brought it up…but oh well, you’ve decided to rattle my cage. About half of the people on this forum think you’re the drunk geek who hits on their girlfriends at parties. In other words the guy who is no where near as charming or as smart as he thinks he is…and who doesn’t know to quit when he’s way way behind.
Do you consider Zach Randolph and Elton Brand as beasts because they get 20 and 10 on a regular basis. This year Zach randolph has scored over 30 points and gathered 15+ rebounds in a game. Would you want them on your team.
At least they can score in the third and fourth quarters of a match. Our franchise player just can’t seem to get it done the the second half of matches. You could refer to him as 50% beast. Plays great in the first half and disappears (irrelevant) in the second half when the defensive intensity goes up a notch.
Goddamn you sure have a hate on Bosh, you probably would rather Bargs taking pull up 22 foot shots.
Bosh doesn’t disappear. Teams at halftime make adjustments when they realize all they have to do is take away Bosh’s space, and force other players to something. So you should be blaming the coach for not making adjustments going into the third quarter. I guess he expects teams not to change up there interior defence.
I love how the Raptors and the media were so proud of the Raptors bench for sticking up for Bosh. Nice moral victory! I can’t remember the last time I heard so much talk given to such a insignificant play. The Raptors have no leadership, no intensity and don’t give a $#%^ whether they win or lose because the paycheque’s the same. Oh, with the exception of Amir Johnson and Bosh (when he has the ball). After all, he is in a contract year and has to prove to whoever he demands a S&T to that he is worth the max. This total lack of effort and passion should cost Colangelo his job. If he thinks this team or last years team could win 50 games then its time to find a GM who has a clue. Wrong Free Agent Signings, Wrong Draft Pick, Wrong Coach (Excuse me, supervisor).
What has he done well? Tell me the move that he has made that was really smart? Nothing. Wildly switching 1 player for another with no improved results and destroying cap flexibility at the same time is how you sink franchises…..
Re November;
but Bosh is still the lone Raptor who can be counted on for anything of substance every single night. Other than reserve forward Amir Johnson, every other Raptor has proven to be unreliable.
http://www.canada.com/sports/Suns+Nash+news+Raptors/2282976/story.html
I don’t agree with this quote because I think he still fouls way too much and it has forced Triano to limit his minutes. I know that they don’t run plays for Johnson but his scoring has been very inconsistent.
Maybe he has played hard the entire time he has been on the court, but the results have to my way of thinking been inconsistent. The Raptors never know from one game to the next if Johnson will get into early foul trouble or not.
Bosh scores most of his points in the first half of games. He is irrelevant in the second half when the defensive intensity goes up a notch. His defensive play is terrible (except rebounding) The reason why my comments are more harsh towards Bosh is because he is considered to be the franchise player and wants a max contract. He should be scrutinized differently than other players and grading standards should be at a higher level.
This team is flawed because it has been built around Bosh. Bosh is not a centerpiece or franchise player. He is a complimentary piece that could work well with franchise players like Wade, Lebron or Kobe.
Bosh’s signature 4th quarter move – he holds the ball for too long with everyone clearing out and another defender strips him of the ball for an easy bucket for the other team.
It’s clear to anyone with eyes that this team is headed nowhere fast. Their offense has been good at times, but not at key spots in many games, and their defense is bordering on being historically bad. What’s worse, the coaching staff and players clearly don’t ‘get it.’ How can they say the reason they lost this game was poor shooting? 1/20 from downtown is horrible, but that’s not the issue. This team simply does not play defense. They play what the Celtics’ coach calls ‘buddy ball,’ and there’s no way you can win playing that style. If defense is a matter of effort and commitment, then the coaching staff should be emphasizing the lack of effort and lack of commitment on the defensive end as the reason for almost every loss (which is is). This team needs somebody to take charge of the situation and demand a commitment to defense. You cannot leave the players thinking that they could have won is they had just hit their shots. Shots will fall some days, and others they won’t. The only thing they can control is putting effort into stopping the other team, and I can’t believe this point hasn’t been made (or received) this far into the season. A change of mentality is needed, and the coach doesn’t seem to be able to provide it or to get the players to buy into it. A major trade looks like the only answer…and Triano should be fired, but we all know this won’t happen yet.
It seems to me that the Raptors are kind of stuck between a rock and hard place.
BC has invested a lot of the Raptors money in 4 of his starters and 3 of them are just not producing what they are being paid to produce.
The problem for BC more than Triano, though I am coming to believe that he is also a big part of the problem with this team, is Bosh’s status as a Raptor next season. If the Raptors trade Bargnani for a more defensive minded and tougher big but one who is not a Prime time scorer then what happens to the Raptors offense next season if Bosh leaves during the summer of 2010 and the Raptors can’t obtain an equivalent or close to equivalent player and scorer?
BC will have gutted 40% plus of the Raptors offense and maybe get half the fire power back. Yes they may be stronger on defense up front but their guards with DeRozan and Calderon sitll won’t play the defense that is necessary from your guards.
It seems to me that the best way out of this mess is for the BC to trade Calderon for a PG who can run the team and also play very good defense. The problem is that Point Guards like this are like diamonds and teams are loathe to trade them, though there are situations where this does happen like with Kidd and Billups.
Ever thought that the Raptors are physically and mentally incapable of playing NBA-level defense?? Perhaps they just aren’t defensive athletes and nothing will change that because their defensive IQ is too low.
Does anybody honestly believe that Bargs and Hedo can magically improve their individual defensive abilities?
Triano knows this only too well and has to compensate for poor defensive abilities by having Jose and Jack or Amir playing. Another strategy is a pathetic attempt to out-score the opposition to compensate for the lack of defense. What other options does Triano have …???!!!!
Hedo played on a very good defensive team last year – is he trying any less? Isn’t the issue that the defensive abilities of the players we have don’t compliment each other making the whole less than the sum of the parts?
No he shouldn’t, because you don’t run things of this magnitude with a reactive mentality.
And I disagree about where the team is heading. You’re talking about one of the top offensive teams in the league. They’re not ‘good at times’.
If you’re not willing to factor in the absurd sched they were given and the fact that a defensive identity is exponentially harder to work in to a team that has never played together before…
Did you really think they’d be better than this by now? I thought they’d be around this for their win/loss record. I didn’t think they’d be this good offensively and I hoped they’d be better than this defensively, but I didn’t expect it. Especially when the guy who is supposed to be the cornerstone of the defense hasn’t played a minute of real time yet.
If they aren’t at 500 by the end of December I’ll be right with you about the need for some changes, but let them get access to a few of the bottom feeders and the teams we’re supposed to beat before we start baying at the moon.
I am not suggesting that BC conduct a fire sale at this point. What I am suggested is that I don’t believe that Calderon will ever lead to a team into a Conference Finals yet alone a NBA title.
Therefore I think BC should look around and see if he can find a PG that has that potential and try and acquire him at a reasonable cost if less than that. However, in no way should he just dump Calderon for a PG that can play better defense if the rest of his game is not up to snuff.
Gman says: “… you don’t run things of this magnitude with a reactive mentality.” WOW.. that sounds impressive “reactive mentality” … who wudda thunk ..???!!!!
i’m actually creeped out by your stalking of Gman on this board
seriously, just stop… one day you may understand how to interact with others…but hasn’t happened yet
“creeped out”
WOW…that sounds impressive. What brilliant insight YOU offer…who wudda thunk???
jk
Great recap…just a quick thought on Iveroni and defense.
One big change the Suns made this year is to simplify the defense. Instead of making big changes every game based on the opponent the Suns now have a set of core defensive rules and only make minor adjustments from game to game.
I suspect some of what you are seeing is Iveroni’s tendency to over-coach defense which leaves the team floundering from game to game as they try and adjust on the fly.
Just a thought…
Jose’s one field goal? Only took place because Nash was jawing at the referee – when he looked away from Jose, he went to the basket.
Some observations after 18 games – please challenge if you disagree
- we need more from the 2 spot, offensively and defensively we have
a rookie who may be really good some day however isn’t right now, a vet who was touted to be a defensive whiz
Some observations after 18 games – please challenge if you disagree
- we need more from the 2 spot a critical position in the modern NBA, offensively and defensively we have
a) Derozan – a rookie who may be really good some day however isn’t right now
b) Wright – a vet who was touted to be a defensive whiz – the only thing he has shown me is a propensity to make terrible offensive decisions
c) bellenelli – oscillates between spectacular and ineffective
d) jack – really a 1, too small to play big minutes at the 2
I think the best option would be to start Wright – that way he wouldn’t get any shots – use belenelli as back-up and Derozan as the back-up 3.
- Bargnani and Calderon’s defesive shortcomings have a compounding effect – unless colangelo finds a true defensive stopper at the 2 or 3 – limit their time together – either start Jack or start Rasho
– while Andrea may be an untraditional offensive centre, he is a traditional defensive centre in that if he just had to play post defense and lay in the key he would be okay however in the modern NBA you need to be able to jump out and hedge screens and rotate out to three point shots – things he struggles with
The reason why Bargs needs to jump out usually, the perimeter players don’t know/want to fight through screens at all. Only Amir can pull off the jump out because he is fast enough.
Lawrence Frank was just let go by the Nets, HIRE him as another assistant coach and pressure/help Triano. His Nets team this year was full of D-Leaguers with injured Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, Terrence Williams, and Yi (doesn’t count, he is sucking) they played harder than our team.
I think, from now onwards, I will prefer the Punjabi commentary compared to the Devlin drivel.
+1 Win, Nominee for Rap of the Day
I missed FAQ! Bargs doesn’t need to jump out quickly because the perimeter guys don’t fight throught screens. They switch everything because they are too lazy to fight through screens. Triano has done the ultimate “my players don’t give effort on Defense so lets design a defensive plan to maximize their lack of effort.” I can’t believe they are this lazy! I figured at some point when they get called out repeatedly and game after game let teams shoot 50% + from the field that the light would come on but these guys really don’t care.
Time to trade Bosh, Calderon, Bargs whoever! BC clearly doesn’t want to admit he has made numerous mistakes the biggest of which was drafting Bargnani and now he is sinking the ship with stubborness. Can someone remind of the move that Colangelo has made since he got here in the draft, trade, FA etc. that has worked out above expectations? Bargnani, Hedo, Triano, Jack, O’Neal, Extending Bargs, Extending Jose? These have all blown up in his face and I haven’t even mentioned the lack of impact from the draft! I’m not trying to say I know better or that these moves didn’t look good to me at the time but they haven’t worked and I’m not making millions to run a basketball team! HE IS!!!!!
I think the team was terrible before Colangelo got here. The problem in Toronto is that you cannot build a championship team around Bosh. He is a dismal failure in the third and fourth quarter of games where you want you franchise player to be effective. He plays terrible defense (Barg is no better)and cannot play against physical players. He will get his stats(in the first half mostly) like a Zach Randolph and Elton Brand but will never deliver anything of consequence. He is a good second banana for another great franchise player.
I’d like the idea if Frank could play D! We don’t need a better coach we need players who can play! Is Frank going to tell them to play harder? Give an effort? Have pride? I think Triano might have tried that….The problem with the Raptors doing instead of saying. We have always had a bunch of guys who could tell you whats wrong. We need fixes to the problems. The issues are obvious. I don’t think Toronto fans really understand just how bad their defense is! The plan and the execution are brutal but the effort put into trying to execute is unacceptable for a high school team. These guys are professions (I use the term losely). If they don’t even try to play D what can a coach do other than bench players who don’t give 100%. Amir Johnson can’t play 1 on5.
what about we suffle the line up and insert in Amir Johnson and let Bargani comes of the bench our interior will be way better and our help defense will improve since calderon cant play defence to save his grandma’s life.
That is what Doug Smith suggested in an article this morning. I made a comment on it in the Morning Coffee section.
Bottom line is I would rather see things stay status quo until Evans returns and then start Evans.
I noted my reasons for being opposed to starting Johnson at this time in the post I referred to above.
Over Colangelo’s dead body will his prized draft pick Bargnani come off the pine.
The reason I hate the draft — in every sport — is that it ends up weighing players down with expectations that aren’t their fault, and executives and coaching staffs with the same. Colangelo didn’t know if Bargs would be good or not and obviously would draft Roy instead if he knew then what he knows now. Triano cannot magically transform Bargs into exactly the player the Raps need him to be. And yet heads will roll if it doesn’t happen, and soon.
all true…you can’t go back & change things. but to think that means it’s impossible to change going forward is lunacy. i agree, it’s unlikely we’ll ever see bargs come off the bench, unless he declines drastically offensively. unfortunately, that’s the reality. of course, a few more ~30-win seasons, and the regime will change, eliminating the need to force-feed a lineup.
what’s truly troubling, and i think most realize it, is that we all know that these types of changes are simply not going to be made. sometimes, things are pretty fucking simple…i mean, your team plays shitty D & has no heart, why not play (or actually acquire) defensive-oriented players with heart? what’s the risk? do they wait until they’re 10 games under .500, or 20? but i guess when you’ve got an $8M/yr PG, a $10M/yr SF, a $16M/yr PF & $7M C, you kinda feel compelled to send ‘em all out as your starters, or you end up looking kind of dumb.
take jose, for example. now, i’ll be the first to admit i was wrong about jack (so far); i thought he’d be much better than he has been. but honestly, has jose been THAT much better? why not try out jack starting, and let jose come in & guide the 2nd unit? what’s to lose? the game? shit, they already do that. jose’s ego? shit, i thought he was the ultimate team-guy…or is that all BS?
what about bargs? it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how much more assertive he is on the floor, at both ends, when bosh goes out. so why not bring him off the bench early in the 1st Q; he gets to go against a tiring first unit or 2nd-stringers; if he comes in for bosh, he gets to be the focal point of the offense, playing with better defenders/rebounders; if he comes in for amir or reggie or rasho, he gets to play a few minutes with bosh, and hopefully would see some open looks as teams focus on bosh.
but the biggest culprit the past few games as been hedo – he just seems out of place with this team. a lot was made of how TO’s lineup/philosophy is modelled after orlando’s, and that he’d fit right in. but in reality, he was playing with a PG who looked for his shot & knew how to play off the ball, a dominating rebounding/defending force in howard, a 3-pt shooting big who could do more than shoot 3-pters, and a defensive-minded 2. hedo had a defined role, something he hasn’t found with the raps – hopefully, ‘yet.’ of course, that doesn’t excuse the out-&-out laziness & piss-poor decision-making he’s displayed the last few games.
“Triano cannot magically transform Bargs into exactly the player the Raps need him to be”
What exactly do you want him to magically transform into? barg’s stats have increased every year (his first two years were really a write off due to Smitch’s no plan development of Barg). This year he is shooting ~50% FG, +40% 3pt, ~90% Ft, 6.4%RPG. Let me guess he should be shooting 100% in FG percentage. He is a terrible defender for a position that he started playing one and half years ago. In Italy he played small forward and during the first years with the raptors he played small forward. Last year he became the backup centre to Jermaine O’Neal. He only joined the starting unit becuase of the injury to JO. Like Bynum (coached by Kareen Abdul jabber), he needs a coach to teach him how to be better defender at his position. Its a small investment that could benefit the Raptors in the future.
Remember we are paying Barg 6.5 million this year. When his 5- year contract kicks in next year he will be paid 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 million respectively. Very few players provide that kind of offense for 6.5 million in league.
I definately agree with what you said about Bargnani the guy could use a coach. I mean even Dwight Howard, who is probably the most naturally gifted guy in the league (my opinion) gets his own coach. While I get Dwight is the franchise in Orlando and they want him to become the next shaq or kareem or something, you’d think that the raps could put someone in to help fix the holes in their centres game.
Kareen jabber has done a good job helping Drew Bynum, to be sure.
What do I expect Bargnani to do as the team’s starting center?
His offensive and defensive rebounding percentages need drastic improvement. 4%/17% doesn’t cut it in the middle. A typical starting center produces 8-12 off and 22-28 def. You’ll note my favourite player Joakim Noah has numbers that good. Staying at home defensively, guarding the rim, blocking shots that come close to the basket, boxing out. He’s a good post defender, when he’s actually down there and not ranging around on the perimeter. He’s a horrendous help defender.
It’s no good having him scoring points when he’s making it so easy for the bad guys to get them right back.
if i was Colangelo i will do this trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
good effort.
epic fail
ARSENALIST, YOU ARE SUCH AN ASSHOLE