
Settle in fellas, it’s a long one. Grab a JD if you have to.
Option 1: Rip this team a new one for pussying out. Again. I mean, are our coaches really the toughest people on the team? Again? Option 2: Debate whether Triano’s sub-pattern in the third along with letting them play through a barren stretch instead of calling a timeout turned the tide? Option 3: Focus on why we haven’t figured out how to defend a pick ‘n roll after 17 games. Option 4: Question the overall effort level and intensity with which we played with. Option 5: Ponder what our franchise player is doing laughing in a blowout where he got dunked on…so, which one do you pick? *&^% it, let’s do ‘em all.
This was a disappointing game right from the start because the Raptors had no intentions of treating this game as a ‘statement game’ or one that might prove a point or right the wrong of Charlotte. On the other hand, Boston doesn’t respect us and are far from fearing us, rightfully so indeed. They treated this game as one you could afford to take a couple quarters off and still have a great chance of winning – no intensity or visible desire from them to expend any more effort than they absolutely have to. I really can’t blame them, when you play your 12-year old nephew in the driveway, the competitive side of you still wants to win which you’ll make sure you do, but at the same time you don’t want to break a sweat doing it, right? That would be a little embarrassing now.
Ray Allen was in a slump coming into this game shooting 9 of his last 27, he ended up going 8-15. Rasheed Wallace came in shooting 28% in his last 11 games and went 6-11, the first time he’s shot over .500 in that span and as many FGs as he’s had in the last three games. Jack Armstrong says this team needs to find an identity, they have one, they let let struggling players come out of their slump against them. It’s just an awfully nice characteristic of the Raptors franchise, not just this version of the team.
Rondo penetration against a clappy Jose and the predictably poor PnR defense were the early problems. Boston running the set on every play making the Raptors hedge and recover all over the court before a drive knifed us open. The usually stuff, really. I lost track of how many times a pass split open the two Raptors defending the PnR forcing others to help and rotate. We’re a team that struggles to string together two consecutive solid defensive possessions, so asking us to recover out to shooters after already being beaten on the pick ‘n roll coverage is too much. Great defensive teams make three strong rotations on most plays, good ones make two and the bad ones struggle to make one. We’re a bad one, and so we struggled whenever Rondo or Allen brushed their defenders off a screen forcing others to get involved.
Jose Calderon had a nice drive early in the game against Garnett where he drew a foul and a nice cheer from the crowd at SCC, but after that as we saw him get beat on play after play, the fuzzy memory of the drive wore off and on settled the gloom and doom of his defensive play. At this point I could talk about his individual defense but you’ve heard the story before – it wasn’t every good. But wait Arse, you say, Rondo’s a very good PG, no shame in being beaten by him. To which I say, f**k you for having such low standards! Yes, there is shame in losing to him, even more shame when you’re actually giving him space to shoot and he still manages to blow past you.
We gave up 33 points in two quarters even though Boston has only once managed to have two 30+ quarters in a game all year. After giving that amount in the first and letting them shoot 82% (no, that’s not a typo), we were down 6, mostly because our bigs in help situations were clueless and Jose was being penetrated. At the same time, it wasn’t a bad outcome because Bosh had it going early against Perkins (Garnett was guarding Bargnani) and it looked like the C**tics weren’t too serious about this. It at least appeared like we’d make this interesting in the second half. Once Jose and Bargnani went to the bench, the defense immediately improved. Jack, Johnson, Turkoglu and Bosh were part of our best unit all game as we won the second 28-21. Hedo Turkoglu had 13 first half points and was in good rhythm, the rookie DeRozan had given us an early lift and Jack played some sound man-defense and read the passing lanes well to get us some easy points. Rapper Dino Gunners wants you to know this. Good frame for the Raps but we had 8 turnovers in that quarter which prevented us from getting a healthy lead going into the half.
A word on Andrea Bargnani, he’s not just under the bus, the bus ran over him, backed up, ran over him again hard, backed up again and then stood on top of him before backing up and running over him again. His game is a derivative of the buterface syndrome, you can look past the laziness and defensive indifference but you really got to give me something on offense and 2-6 is just not cutting it. Sure, Wallace got the better of him in the post a couple times, but KG got a lob-dunk on Bosh, those things happen. Difference is that Bosh produced something on offense (20/13, 9-13 FG) and at least looked to be into this game which is saying something considering he’s facing Garnett and Wallace, two guys who have struck fear into him since birth. Bargnani did nothing except nail two jumpers in the first half, other than that a zero-impact game which featured a couple instances of the hated drive-four-feet-and-pull-up-from-22-feet brick, which for anyone except a very talented guard, is a terrible shot. Still, the bench picked us up and Turkoglu got it going to keep us in it at the half, up 1. Boston was shooting 68%, while the Raptors were at 67%. The thinking at the time was that if the defense could sort itself out a little and our offensive efficiency continued, we might have a shot.
Maybe Triano should just have the boys treat halftime like a timeout so they don’t do whatever the hell they do at halftime because it sure as hell isn’t working. After going -12, -13 and -14 against Charlotte, Indiana and Miami, we went -16 against Boston. How sweet it is! I don’t usually blame timeouts or lack of them for much, but when a team is as mentally fragile and scared as the Raptors, you need to give them all the help they need, even if it means going against your coaching principles of imitating Phil Jackson. So Turkoglu puts the Raptors up 4 with 10:38 left in the third quarter and the Raptors offense goes in the ditch. Turkoglu had two turnovers in this stretch and seven for the night, although one of them here should be partially attributed to Bosh for not holding onto the pass and letting Rondo rip it for a fast-break. The Boston defense stepped up a notch and challenged the Raptors to score, we couldn’t. To make matters worse, Triano took out Turkoglu (easily our best wing scorer who was 7/8 at the time) in favor of Wright at 8:00 of the quarter – Wright brought nothing.
This mess resulted in a 13-0 Boston run (scoreless in 6:53) which Triano had a chance to cool off when it was just 4-0 at 61-61 with 8:22 left. Everybody in the building including the players knew that two consecutive C**tics fast-break scores off their defense had completely changed the momentum of the game. Triano let them play on and we bled, we bled till we were down 5 after which is when he finally called it. Hedo Turkoglu didn’t enter the game until the fourth quarter when we were down 17. So we take our best scorer off when we’re struggling to score and the game is tied, and bring him back in when we’re down 17? Yup, makes sense. I just don’t understand why he didn’t go with the second quarter lineup that had brought us so much success, was that not even a thought at the time? What are those assistant coaches doing there? Aren’t they supposed to be following trends and write stuff down and tell him what his options are…for the life of me, somebody tell me what they dooooo!
Ah, avid impatient reader and good friend, nay, greaaat friend. Do you think I shall not address the disgrace that embodied our squadron? Do thee believe that I will ignore such an occurrence? For surely a kick in the groin followed by a dunk in the face followed by humiliating taunt must be discussed with careful and articulate care. Patience, dear, your concern and fears will be addressed in due time.
Boston went into drive-mode in the late stages of the third quarter with Pierce and Perkins going inside on every opportunity. The Raptors bigs were overmatched in size and the only one showing a pulse was Rasho Nesterovic who was hustling and bustling out there like he was playing Game 6 of the Western Conference Finals for the Spurs. He even unleashed a downward-trajectory hook which went in. Good on you. Bargnani was benched midway through the third only to be brought back later for one final look before he got relegated to the bench in favor of Rasho. He went 1-5 in the two stints combined and couldn’t do much against Garnett, Perkins or Shelden Williams (yup, still in the L).
The fourth began with us down 16 and you knew two things for sure 1) Boston could turn their defense on and off and shut us down any time they wanted and 2) Our offense had gone into the tank. They weren’t even letting us get into our sets, they picked us up soon after we crossed the mid-court line and instead of fighting through and forcing our offense on them, we started running our high-screen sets 5 feet behind the three-point line! We’ve all talked about the defensive intensity that’s lacking, tonight we even lacked the offensive kind.
The other thing that annoyed me was Triano playing Jose and Jack at the end of the third and start of the fourth again. This meant that the taller Marquis Daniels was matched up against Jarrett Jack and Jose Calderon was guarding Ray Allen. I’ll let you digest that one for a bit. There, done? OK. This stretch resulted in Daniels getting all four of his FGs in the game as Allen and Boston exploited the mismatch by setting up Daniels 12 feet and in. That’s 8 points in a crucial stretch, what the hell is Triano thinking? Why are we inviting punishment? I’d much rather have Belinelli in there who can matchup better in those situations and can provide an adequate offensive threat, granted, this was another night off.
Let’s talk about that bloody play now. Pierce drove the lane against Rasho after a suspect switch, used his forearm, put his left knee in Bosh’s groin, dunked on him and then taunted him. Is it an utterly c**tish thing to do? No doubt. Would I complain if a player on the Raptors team did that to someone? Hell. No. What followed was expected, if any of you were surprised by not even a single Raptor uttering anything to anyone (other than Hedo smiling and joking about), you obviously have misplaced faith in the character of this team. Jay Triano, Marc Iavaroni and Alex English, our old-ass coaching staff, were the three men who stepped in to Pierce. Not a single Raptor (including Bosh) found it a bit odd that the franchise player was on the floor after being taken out, dunked on and talked trash to by Pierce. Jack said nothing. Wright said nothing. Those two, if you remember, were part of the toughness we imported.
Arsenalist Sr. always told me to judge people by the small things they do in life. This was one play in one game of an 82 game schedule but it spoke volumes about the make-up, character, mental toughness, and pride of this team. Hell, when somebody sticks out an elbow to you in pick-up ball, even you take offense and you got nothing on the line. So what’s up with this crew? Why didn’t anybody utter a bloody word or even gently nudge someone? Was it because we were down 17 and had already given up so how would it really matter? Were we scared that the C**tics might yell at us? Did we feel they had done nothing wrong? I don’t know, but it seems almost eerie and downright weird that we simply had no reaction to the play, the emotion surrounding the aftermath or the ensuing basketball that was played. That folks, is your 2009-10 Raptors team. So far, so pussy.
Chris Bosh at the end of the bench laughing with Marcus Banks. Take 1: He’s thinking this team is going nowhere and is secretly laughing at them, waiting to be shipped out. Doesn’t care much for applying remedies to this unit. Take 2: Marcus Banks told him one cracker of a funny. Take 3: Just doesn’t take the loss to heart because if anybody, and I mean anybody got humiliated like that, they at least would hold off the laughter till they’re behind close doors. Very VC-ish.
Some quotes from this mess:
Antoine Wright on the Raptors’ inaction after the Pierce dunk:
“We’ve got guys standing over our best player, flexing, and it’s not something we can stand for. I was pretty frustrated sitting on the bench watching their whole team run out there on the floor and we only had our coaches up shouting and screaming at their players. I don’t like that. That’s something that’s been accepted around here, but I’m going to say something to the guys and something we can’t go for.”
I hear ya. Here’s him on the locker room:
There’s a lot of frustration in this locker room, and we have to say ‘enough is enough’. If we continue to go forward like this, it’s going to continue to happen to us. We can’t blame the refs; we can’t blame the game plan. It’s about making hard cuts and getting the ball where it’s supposed to be.
Funny that he’s talking about hard cuts because he’s the last guy you actually want the ball in his hands when we’re on offense, still though, right line of thinking. I’m just not sure what kind of an impact a role player of Wright’s caliber can have, these words and their implementation should be coming from Bargnani, Bosh, Calderon and Turkoglu.
Rasheed Wallace making fun of Turkoglu:
“They’ve got to know that he’s a [darn] flopper. That’s all Turkododo do. Flopping shouldn’t get you nowhere. He acts like I shot him. That’s not basketball, man. That’s not defense. That’s garbage, what it is. I’m glad I don’t have too much of it left…This game is watered down, watered down with all that flopping. They’re setting rules on us to the point where you’re taunting if you dunk on somebody. Paul dunked it and then he didn’t say nothing, but it’s a tech.”
Rasheed, you poor bastard. Paul dunked it and then stared at Bosh and then flexed. That’s taunting and it’s a technical. If you still can’t see that, then you’re just an idiot.
Chris Bosh on the team not being passionate:
“Yeah, I’d like to see the team more passionate. I look at their bench and they’re all up standing at half-court, and nobody from their team was down on the floor. I think we would react better to just be out there for one another and just stay together.”
Sure, but what about you? Maybe if you went up to Pierce and let it be known to him that it’s not OK for your Johnson to be kneed on, others might follow suit. I almost feel that every Raptor is looking at someone else to ignite the passion within them and give them a psychological boost. I got some news for them, passion doesn’t work that way. For example, RapsFan has a passion for ‘dancers’, he goes out and hunts them down. He doesn’t wait for his friends to call him up and convince him to go searching for his passion.
But then Bosh acknowledged that all of this is just talk and nothing is likely to change:
“I’m tired of talking about toughness. We talk about it too much. We talk about everything too much. We’ve got to stop talking about it and just do it.”
Here’s Bosh, Wright and Weems talking about how they shouldn’t be dicking around so much:
Wright said he told Bosh, “`Hey, you’ve got guys in here eating popcorn, joking around before the game. And we go out there and lose by 40. It’s a direct result of what’s going on before the game. Guys not coming in with the right mind frame.”
Those words appeared to resonate. Said Sonny Weems, the 23-year-old forward: “We do fool around a lot. And it tends to carry over into the game, and that’s something that needs to change.” Added Bosh: “I think as a team we could do a lot to get better focused … It’s something we’ll talk about.”
Liners:
- Boston shot 62.3%, Raptors were at 55.7%. Difference in the game was 25 Raptors turnovers which seemed to come at crucial times.
- Raptors -20 in Points in the Paint. Direct result of dribble penetration, inability to defend screen and roll and turnovers leading to break points.
- The Raptors surprised everybody (including themselves) by playing a bit of zone in the second quarter.
- DeRozan looked good, 4-8 FG, active, slashing with the ball. Maybe less off-the-ball and more on-the-ball for him. I love how he protects the ball when he’s coming across the lane.
- This is 8 straight games of allowing 100+ points. Record in those games is 2-6.
- Amir Johnson picked up 3 fouls in 8:18 in the first half. Discounting Patrick O’Bryant who’s statistics can be considered outliers, Johnson’s second in the league in PER 48 personal fouls. He can have an impact on the game, but can he stay in the game?
- Why is the pick’ n roll defense so bad? All I can muster up is that we’re not agile or quick enough to recover after a hedge and/or our guards get picked off too easily.
- The game was officially over at 2:08 of the fourth quarter when human victory flag Brian Scalabrine was substituted in.
You know what’s even more messed up than this game? Me coming from SCC to play with this thing for two hours straight. This too.
Support RR, at least we give it our all. Thanks to the people who could make it out to SCC, too bad about the result.

158 Raps
The raptors saying that they will cut the tough talk and finally start being tough is like a really fat person saying that their going to cut the Macca’s and start crash dieting tomorrow. It’s just not going to happen.
And in honour of the raptors, I will not have a JD. I think I’ll settle on a warm cup of earl grey with a biscuit, and I promise I’ll start on the hard alcohol tomorrow
Arsenalist EXCELLENT read! I guess we are all so pissed off, but it is a long season.
The only concern I have with this team is our head coach. I have grown to really HATE triano. I mean this guy is actually a retard. I have noticed that tries to do things so differently from other coaches, but he always fails to succeed. I am still shocked with the 3 year signing after a 25-43 record he had last year. I mean WHY? WHYYYYYY? If you are going to sign him sign him for a year.
Everything he does is a failure. I actually think if bosh was to coach the team, we would be more successful. First sign of a bad coach, constant losing of third quarters. Out of half time is when successful coaches are so effective, and clearly triano isn’t. Another note, playing jack and calderon together “recipe for losing the game”. He does that every game, and so far it has worked only twice. I mean HE IS AN IDIOT! I also noticed the when other teams are putting together a run, he never calls a timeout. I mean a 2 year would know when to call a time out. Another piece of his idiotic coaching, is taking off hot players. HE DOES THAT EVERYTIME. HE does that with Bosh, specially bargs and bellineli, and now Turk. I mean WHY? I am so fuking pissed off with his coaching style. I am still wondering how our team would have been different, if we signed Mike DEantonie 2 summers ago…. I was waiting for it, but it never happend!
Oh ya…D’Antoni is doing a stellar job with the Knicks.
Give D’Antoni our roster and see how he shines with it.. I agree with some of the sentiments regarding Triano, it’s starting to become very frustrating. I’m starting to think that most of the problems this team has are attributable to the coaching, even the pussiness of the team I think can be attributed to coaching. It’s up to coaches to set the identity that the team should strive for, to set the mentality of protecting each other, to pound into their heads every day the ‘soldier’ mentality that is required for teams to protect each other and I don’t think our coaching staff has done any of that. And now there’s talk of too much fooling around before the game, where are the coaches, who should be going apeshift and nipping that shit as soon as it starts to happen??
Rapman bravo!
In my opinion, Triano is not a good coach. He is not able to improve his players. To improve a player, a coach and the player, need to understand and acknowledge the player’s weaknesses and decide how to overcome them. Developing strengths and eliminating weaknesses are two sides of the same medal. Versatility is the first thing to surprise the opponent with. The more talented the player is, the more he (and his coach) should work on his fundamentals to become a complete player. For 15 years we did not have a single very good coach. So, when the Raptors are better on paper then in reality, do not blame just the players. Blame their “educators” as well.
Are you comparing their players to ours? with those shitty players the knicks are playing than the raptors. I know we had a tough schedule, and we are suppose to lose these games, but the way we are losing is really disappointing. We haven’t had one blow out game so far, and half our loses are blow outs. It is becoming somewhat embarrassing cheering for the raptors. Now, I am starting to understand why Americans always underestimate us, because they are actually right. It doesn’t matter what kind of players we have, we will always be mediocre. But you know, for once I wish to be right about the raptors…
The high screen-and-roll with bosh and calderon is another disaster. nothing good ever comes of it. every time we run it, bosh pops up to the elbow, takes the pass, holds it for 3 seconds and then shoots a contested jumper. never curls to the basket, never looks to pass, and calderon rarely uses the screen to attack. how has this not been addressed? it seems foolish to nitpick when our offense has been so efficient, but the reason we go into these scoring funks is because we have no offensive schemes, just guys standing around waiting for someone to take a jump shot. when the shooting goes cold, everything goes to shit. need to start mixing things up a bit
The reason there are no offensive sets or plays is because everyone stands around waiting for Jose to give it to Bosh and clear out so Bosh can go to the vicinity of the hoop with arms flailing trying to get to the line. How many times does he actually finish? He is just like the soccer players who flail and wave their arms and legs hoping to get a penalty.
I have to agree with there 100%. Even though our offence is good, it could be much better. Just imagine Deantonie running this team. UHHHHH we would own!
Who’s Deantonie?
Paul Pierce is one of the dirtiest SOB’s in the game today and I came to that conclusion long before I witnessed him “kneeing” bosh below the belt last night!!!!
After the dunk instead of checking if Bosh is ok after that “fall” he stares him down and stands taunting overlooking him while CB suffer on the floor… what a shameless MOFO PP!!!!
if the NBA does not suspend him for that damaging display… oh wait… it wont happening cuz the Upper NBA admins are shameless F@#CKs themselves!!!!!!
Paul Pierce is a dirty player? That’s literally the first time I’ve ever called him a dirty player. How do you label him dirty for simply raising his knee, a very natural thing to do when jumping off of one foot 3+ feet vertically, and finishing the dunk?
How was it dirty of him to just stand there? I think he was in shock a little bit. I mean, he hasn’t thrown down a dunk like that on somebody in a little while now.
I think you’re just deflecting the real issue onto Pierce.
The real issue is why didn’t any of Bosh’s teammates immediately come to his rescue?
Why didn’t Triano call a timeout instantly instead of going after the refs like an idiot?
“How was it dirty of him to just stand there?”
You did not watch the game if you felt he just “stood there in shock”.
You’re are right – the main issue was his teammates did immediately get into his face. (BTW, why do you call it the “real issue” if PP just stood there is shock – if that was the case, there is no need for teammates to respond).
You have to be joking about the Triano comment – he was the only one (with Alex English) to defend his star – he did the appropriate. What in the heck would a timeout achieve?! They already stopped the play – and it took 2 min to sort everything out.
The Raps need to make changes; I’d suggest they let Wright take Hedo’s sport in the starting 5 and trade either of the point guards (i.e., Calderon or Jack) and maybe Bargnani as well. The team is so poorly constructed; almost none of the players can play defense. And they don’t have enough penetrators, players who can drive to the basket and create for their teammates.
Who would want those guys at this point?
I think many teams would, but neither Calderon nor Jack is a great fit on the Raps. I think the Raps need an athletic point guard who can get to the basket.
The same goes for Bargnani; he’s talented but not the sort of player the Raps need. If Bosh were more of a classic bigman, Bargnani and Bosh would be a great combo, but since both of them prefer to operate on the perimeter, it’s not.
The Lake Show is looking to trade Vujacic for a point guard. The raps could possibly get him and Farmar for Calderon. Vujacic is a tough guy, and he and Farmar both need a lot more playing time to improve.
But the team needs to get Okafor to start at the 5.
“The raps could possibly get him and Farmar for Calderon.
weak at best…..
Vujacic is a weasel. We need tough, not weaselly!
That’s a fine way to talk about Maria Sharapova’s girlfriend.
Farmar would provide some athleticism and defense, but he’s not much of a point guard. And Vujacic is exactly the kind of player the Raps DON’T need. He’s a carbon copy of Belinelli.
hahaha….Ya it kills me that that weasel gets that girl. I think less of her now.
If we hit -30 on our win-loss record, things will get very interesting, on trade deadline and off-season. I’d just change the starting lineup somehow, and if we start the 3rd quarter with the lead, leave some of the bench players that helped build our lead on the floor, F@#% whatever starter started, keep the momentum going with the better player.
You know how does a swiss cheese looks like? If you don’t, take a look at raptors defence? Yeah, its fool of holes!
Rashid said after the game that they weren’t scared at all from the Raps cuz they had only one big, and he didn’t consider Bargnani as big cuz hes not in the paint that much.
We must settle on the fact that we have just a mediocre team here and prepare ourself that we’re gonna see a lot of the badly played games this season.
Pierce drove on Nesterovic, not Turk on the dunk.
Ya I remember when the play started and thinking WTF is Rasho doing guarding Pierce at the 3pt line, this isn’t going to end well. And it ended far worse than I could have imagined.
What a bunch of pussies. Triano and the coaches need to do something in practice to get the guys angry….perhaps an hour of being slapped in the face and punched in the gut. Or maybe a Clockwork Orange brainwashing sequence for each player. I just can’t believe that 12 grown men would allow themselves to be pushed around so much without even one of them losing it.
+1 to Clockwork Orange
Thank you for pointing that out, I have real trouble distinguishing between the two at 3AM.
“Maybe if you went up to Pierce and let it be known to him that it’s not OK for your Johnson to be kneed on, others might follow suit.”
This is the issue with this team. The Raptors are a large group of very talented (offensive) players but few *real* winners. Bosh is almost there – needed to make a statement post this play – but I do give him a pass given what he had to recover from.
But not having someone else on the floor go straight to Pierce’s face and let it be known that we’re to be respected was a shame. If I was me out there, I would have insured I was tossed after letting Pierce have little doubt what I thought of his antics with our star player. That’s what a teammate does. That’s what winners do.
Last night, I made the claim to a few that Bargs has “little desire to win” (http://bit.ly/67hNyW). One reply was “I think they ALL wanna win…”. Sure, but who has the DESIRE to win. When your opponent is taking you lightly, who gets offended, steps up and makes a tough score – or fouls hard. Who’s diving for loose balls? Who’s banging on the offensive glass – trying to tip a ball back out? Bosh is largely in this camp. Johnson has a bit of this. Jack somewhat. Evans likely.
But your stars need to show this. And it starts with your new $10M dollar man. We need more warriors (and not in the GS sense).
To think,I could of been “ANTIQUE-ING !!!!!”
One word……PUSSIES!!!
As Devlin and Armstrong stated (as have many of us here have), the Raps go as Bargs goes.
So how the hell do you justify getting the guy 6 shots… of which he had to create nearly all of them himself? Well I understand the minutes… I mean his D sucked. But if we are going to pull players for playing shitty D then why the hell is Bosh still out there?
If Bosh needs his touchs and Bargs needs his touchs, and Hedo is going to get his touchs…. we end up with a dilemma.
The result… if Bargs can’t get more shots (either because Bosh and Hedo won’t/can’t give them up) then either him or Bosh needs to go. Replace either with a true big. This team can only improve.
please excuse my spelling of ‘touches’
But come on man, the raptors have a top 5 PG in Jose Calderon. He’s a superb playmaker right? He just always makes the right decisions.
i agree! we could throw the guy under the bus all we want, but the simple fact is that the guy didnt touch the ball untill the 8 min mark of the first! i find that both hedo and jose are doing a terrible job of involving him. he gets so little set up for him that when he finally touches the ball he panics under the pressure to perform. this is trianos fault!! i hate him as a coach!! jack on daniels was insane!! i got the boston feed and they couldnt believe what was going on!! these guys are such pussies!!!! we need reggie!!! this team has some major issues!! im embarrassed to be a fan right now
me too…
I don’t mind that we lost to the Celtics in Boston, but I have a big fukin problem on how we lost. We have no damn pride.
Some one should of slapped the taste out of Peirces mouth. WTF seriously. On the next play, who ever he’s guarding, should have posted him up, swung an elbow in his jaw and dropped him. Send a message boys!!
Do you think we can suit up Tie Domi or Wendell Clark in a Raptors jersey for some toughness?!?!
And Sheed talking shit after the game about Hedo? These guys are bullies and the Raps need to go in guns blazing next game. Get kicked out of the game, who cares! Have SOME PRIDE!
I completely disagree with your eye-for-an-eye hockey mentality.
All Pierce did was the equivalent of strutting and you wanted a Raptor to physically harm him in the name of PRIDE?
PRIDE starts on the defensive end my friend, not with meaningless elbows in November.
How about defense AND elbows!
I humbly and respectfully disagree bpika113.
Although you are correct about pride starting with defense, pride to me also means not letting your team mates get clowned on and disrespected like that.
All Pierce did was the equivalent of strutting??? what about the elbow to the face and knee to the nuts? If that’s what you call strutting, I don’t ever want to play ball with you. That was an uncalled blatant offensive foul.
bpika113, and that’s the kind of thinking that makes this raps team soft. “Let’s not push back or foul people hard for attacking our rim 60 times a game, let’s just focus on our hedges”
THat whole first quarter I was screaming at Bargs or Bosh to just crack one of them, flagrent or not. This team has no pride, and Arse is right, it starts with the coach. Next game I’m getting tickets behind the Raps bench and Ima let Jay know he should go play some tennis.
The Raptors lost because they played sloppy against a team that you can’t play sloppy against. The turnovers were the difference in the game. You can blame this play or that play, the defense, or the taunting, but the fact is that the Raptors gave up 25 possessions which by the way they have been playing this year is 25 points they should have had. The only reason the Raptors were close at the half was because Boston was also turning the ball over.
Any realist expected this outcome. To me a loss is a loss. Although the Cavs have turned it around after opening 0-2, they lost to the Bobcats last night. The NBA definitely favors the home team. It will be interesting to see what happens on Sunday against the Suns. If they play poorly again against a team they have already seen then there will be reason to panic, but sitting at 7-10 isn’t something that should be all that shocking.
This is truly a very soft team. As I sitting there watching the game last night, I watch Pierce do what he did and I almost stood up off the couch… which is more than I can say about half the Raptors. Our best player is a bit of a pussy. When you break down their roster it is no wonder why we have the softness issues we have. I think Reggie Evans would help but its just too glaring. I love what the Bobcats have done. Getting Jackson is going to put them into a playoff spot. He’s just the kind of tough semi-criminal player a team needs, plus he can fill it up. How can we blame the presonal though. They are what they are, they’re not built to get into other teams faces.. just not them. Unfortunately Boston has about 4 guys like that,… we have one and he hasnt been able to play yet this year to try and change these guyd mindset.
And you wanna know what our biggest defensive problem is?? 2 main positions on the floor: Centre and ponit guard are terrible defensively. thats why we give up over 100 points every game. Softness and bad defense will get you no where.
might get another good draft pick though..
When the bobcats made the big run in the third quarter, our centre was not playing. Our franchise player was giving instructions on how to play turnstile defense.
Can’t teach toughness, desire, pride, intensity… I feel bad for Jay. He probably wants to quit after that shameful display.
I have to disagree. Much of it lies in the natural character of your players, yes. But you can stress it, you can make it a priority, you can motivate, and you can discipline when you don’t get it. I don’t think Triano does any of that.
Legendary coach Vince Lombardi’s players were willing to go as far as necessary for him. Great coaching inspires that.
Arsenalist u are full of shit against Bargnani every day. Take a brake.
No, I don’t. I give the guy credit when it’s due and call him out when he’s playing like he did yesterday. Sorry, I’m not in the business of shining up turds. Check last year’s recaps against Boston and you’ll find Chris Bosh being rightfully criticized and Bargnani praised. Or even earlier this season when Bargnani “brought it”, even just mentally. Last night he didn’t bring it mentally or otherwise.
There is no agenda here on RR. If a player you like plays like crap, expect it to be talked about the next morning.
You really don’t want to admit it. Bosh is not a franchise player. Neither is barg. To become one or be praised, you have to prove it. Neither players have done anything to warrant it. The difference is that one is paid 6.8 million and the other close to 16 million. Bosh is an extremely weak defender, cannot play against physical players and is a jump shooting PF. He does not have the ability to deliver the goods. When the physical play in playoffs goes up a notch, Bosh will become irrelevant (Nets & Magic Series).
You and this board at times unnecessarily criticize raptor players. You never criticize our franchise player. Why is that? The main focus on this board should be to ask is he repeating last year’s script by starting out strong and well you what happened. Will he ever be able to play against physical players. Excel in the playoffs (he choked in the Nets and Magic series). Just like the last game, the main run by Boston occurred when Barg (not justifying his play yesterday, he played horribly) was on the bench. Our franchise player well never defended. The raptors are about to pay this player 20 million dollars. He is not a max or franchise player but a complimentary piece with a secondary role.
The next video on this board highlighting defensive lapses should be about bosh. If one is not posted soon, we know this board has a bias toward one player.
No, it shouldn’t talk about Bosh’s “defensive lapses” because Bosh is already doing more than his part to help the team.
Chris Bosh cannot do everything. He cannot be all 5 guys, and all 5 subs. He does his part and then some. It’s the hacks that are staffing the other spots that are the problem. Leave Bosh alone.
You’re a fairly recent addition to RR, that’s the only way I can explain you thinking that I think Bosh is a franchise player. Look at last year’s posts, you won’t find another guy doubting Bosh more than me, but give him credit, so far this year he has brought it. BIG TIME. The offensive rebounding, the dedication to play inside and the hustle.
He did start out strong but its way too early to say that he’s already fizzling out. For fuck sakes, it’s not even December yet. If he does pull a VC and start putting out a half-ass effort, he will be called out on it. So far he hasn’t done that and has played like a franchise player.
“[Bosh]is not a max or franchise player but a complimentary piece with a secondary role.”
There are (in theory) 30 franchise players in the league. Realistically, there are probably 15-20 (teams will have bad drafts, signings etc) franchise players at any one time.
So if Bosh is not a franchise player, name the 20 current players you would sign to the max ahead of him.
Once you get to 7 or 8 it will be difficult. He IS a max player. He IS the best player on the floor in many games. He WILL be offered the max by a number of teams, if we don’t. Like anyone, he does have bad games. But they are the exception.
There are enough idiot GMs in the league who will pay ludicrous amounts of money on potential and stats. Let us hope Toronto is not that stupid. What has Bosh done for Toronto in the last five years. They have surrounded him with a multitude of players around him with no success. He chokes in the 4th quarter when the defensive intensity goes up,has been awful in the playoffs (Nets & Magic), plays horrible defense (except rebounding), cannot play against physical players, poor leadership skills, the list goes on…
So in Toronto we consider the above traits as someone who deserves a max contract.
We did signed Bosh to a max contract – he’s getting paid a max salary right now. So GTFOH!
Anyone who is complaining about Pierce being a punk needs to stop right now. That play was simply emotion, and something we don’t see often from The Truth. If that was Lebron that dunked on Bosh nobody would have made a big deal out of it. I as a Celtics fan was glad to finally see the Celtics get their “swagger” back and this play showed it.
That play was plain and simple an offensive foul… knees up, arms out.
Refs made the make up call by giving out 2 techs… should have just made the right call in the first place.
Re: Gino’s Jungle.
I could care less whether the dunk is legal or not. Point is when you see you’ve hurt somebody, you don’t flex over them like an asshole.
I hate the Celtics, but I know the Raps limitations.
I hope the Celts get what’s coming to them courtesy of Orlando or LA this spring.
The Celtics are the most hated team in the NBA, you know why? Because they win. You don’t see anybody hating on the Toronto Raptors, you know why? Because they don’t win. Fans from every other team try to find ways to hate them even more. You know what I say? Go ahead, we have 17 banners so nothing has stopped us yet. Anyone who thinks that is a offensive foul simply because his knee caught him in the junk is crazy. Bosh was inside the circle and Pierce has every right to use his body to make room. Bosh got facialized, case closed.
explain then why people don’t feel the same way about the Spurs, Portland, Cleveland, Orlando and the Lakers. Why did people not hate the Pistons during their decade of dominance.
People hate the Celts because they act like douche bags (with the exception of Ray Allen). Garnett and Perkins are punks. Pierce is up there with the largest whinners in the league…. seriously a wheelchair?
Their is no doubting the quality of the team… its the quality of character that people question.
Spurs= 4 NBA Championships
Portland= 1 NBA Championship
Cleveland= 0 NBA Championships
Orlando= 0 NBA Championships
LA= 15 NBA Championships (People do hate them besides Boston fans)
Boston=17 NBA Championships – The first 4 teams don’t even have half the NBA championships combined. When you are the most succesful dynasty in a sport people begin to get sick of you winning. Look up New York Yankees for a clear definition.
Although I hate LA I have to give them some respect for winning 15 NBA championships. Besides the Celtics they are the only other really hated team in the league. And you know why? Because they WIN. No one hates the KC Royals in baseball, nobody hates the Detroit Lions in football. The best way to make friends in sports is to lose, because winning teams always have a target on their back.
Think it may be partly do to the fact that the Celtics won 8 championships when the league was 8 or 9 teams?! Amazing franchise, but you would want to adjust for, you know, when the former three actually entered the league.
You absolutely have no idea what you’re talking about with that argument. The league had 8 teams and were FULL of HOF’s. Once the league started growing the competition started diluting into other teams via signs and trades. Boston won almost all their championships during this era which was against the toughest competition. Look up the Celtics roster and the Lakers’ roster during this time before you post more nonsense.
I have never been so disgusted as a Raptors fan and am considering switching teams and cancelling my Raptors TV. I will likely cool down and hang in there, and only because Reggie Evans is on the roster and he is our last hope here to man up.
The player that I am most upset at is Jack, who was on the floor and did not risk a suspension for leaving the bench to go after Wallace. If he is Bosh’s best buddy he sure didn’t show it. With best buddies like that, who needs enemies.
Wright can talk all he wants also but he did not back it up on the court either. Actions speak louder than words, and right now this team is on the verge of imploding.
I am at a loss at to what can be done to this roster. We are locked in with a lot of mentally weak players. Even if we make the playoffs the way we are constructed it will be a quick exit as our style of play is the worst kind possible to compete in the playoffs when defense and toughness are at a premium.
Edit – Interchange Pierce for Wallace noting that it also could have easily been Wallace as well on the Celtics or a # of other players. That is why they are the Celtics and we are the Raptors.
Have we gelled as yet? I’m waiting…
Weren’t we thinkin the same thing about the Raps here http://www.odenized.com/2008/04/hedo-knocks-bosh-called-for-flagrant-1.html and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaZdJzsHeZk?
Frustrating is an understatement.
BTW, Arsenalist, digging the url name on the pic of the Boston highkickers.
Well said Hardcore! But I’m more pissed at the way the players reacted… maybe it shows how much the players think of as their leader.
When Garnett was doing his antics with Calderone… I didn’t see Bosh do anything.
After this game I have changed my opinion of this team… If they don’t give a shit, why should I.
When Bosh got punked by Granger last year,Bosh’s reply was “thats not in my game” !!! well guess what my friend,along with the max dollars,you must bring your max balls !!!
I know its early,but unless this team brings max effort on Sunday,the boos will be raining down at the ACC,and there will be no place to hide.
Just bring it !!!!
three things:
1. If a raptors player did what Pierce did to bosh to anyone, I would be very happy. I love the raps, but I also love it when a player comes out and sends a message. Pierce did that. He challenged a big man in the post and went through him and then bragged about it. If anyone on the raps would do that I’d be very happy. Physical play and swagger are essential for success in this league.
2. Bargs, in my opinion played better in help situations last night then he usually does. Usually he just attaches to his man and doesn’t come over when someone drives iving an easy bucket. Last night he did come over, and was there to stop ray allen and rondo a couple times. I think some of the really bad defense he played last night comes more from the fact that he’s kept doubling on people he had no reason to double on. So that is either him making bad decisions, which hopefully he will realize, or that is what the defensive scheme calls for. Also, as Hardcore Raps pointed out when you pay a guy like him who has obvious defensive deficiencies to play offence why does he only get six shots?
3. Bosh and Bargs do not play well together. They both play out to far so when one misses there is no rebounding. As has ben pointed out, they play the same position. Thats why amir johnson looks so good when he’s on. He gets the weekside rebound when Bosh or Bargs misses. They can play well together, but raps need to start running plays which puts on of them in a position to rebound.
sorry about spelling, my keyboard is not working so well.
Exactly!
The Bs are not playing well together – but the reason can be largely hung around the coaches neck.
Two big men on the perimeter, neither of whom is really fast enough to get back to cover the fast break in transition = bad defense and few offensive boards.
Nailed it. There was one play where he guarded his man perfectly (I think it was Daniels) who had to dish off to Perkins who was just standing there becuase he was also being guarded perfectly. The C’s had nowhere to go. Then for some reason that is completely beyond me Bargs leaves Daniels to double Perkins. He created a wide open lane to double somebody posing no threat and Perk just dished it to Daniels who floated in for the score.
And until Bosh starts passing to Bargs those to should not be on the floor together.
And where the F*ck are these “unguardable” pick and rolls with Turk playing off Bosh and Bargs that were supposed to give the opposition nightmares?
Truth is, once under mega-million dollar contracts, certain players will not dive for loose balls. Period.
I’ve only watched half of the games this year, and missed last night’s, but when was the last time a Raptor took a charge?
With Bosh, he doesn’t jump to block very often; he doesn’t cut off the drive to draw a charge; his man catches the ball deep in the post constantly. He does not box out his man or anyone else’s.
Bosh should be the defensive leader on the team, but he refuses to play intense d, probably unfortunately a product of his nice personality.
Hey, I was happy three years ago when we ditched the remaining knucklehead thugs on the team and went with the “finesse” lineup of nice guys…..but it is clear as anything to me now that while the players are able to avoid strip club shootouts, and fan brawls, they are lacking the killer instinct of a true pro like Paul Pierce.
I don’t know if anybody remembers, but we were thumping the C’s 3 years ago, before they started stocking up.
Basically Bosh is a good not great ball player because he is a huge pussy, compared to most of his all-star peers.
It seems to me like the game was within reach with 2 minutes left. Why didn’t Triano put in the guys who could jack 3s and foul Boston (e.g. scallabrini)? We seem to give up too easily.
Triano gave up in the third just like in Charlotte.
I had high hopes for the Cdn Coach – Now he just looks like an idiot!
maybe most of the guys really dont want to be here
There might be way more to that than meets the eye.
Bosh goes 10-34 and Bargs gets benched shooting 50%.
Bosh lets every single player who posts him up in Boston score easily, Bargs gets benched for “bad” defense? After he just stuffed Ray Allen in the corner and was the only guy making a defensive effort in the third.
Bad coaching leads to bad chemistry!
Umm…Bosh was 9-13 shooting and Bargani was 2-6. Where are you getting your numbers from? Bosh was having a fine game, no idea what he was doing guarding Perkins, though. You think we need a bulkier C defending him in the post instead of Bosh (added weight or not).
Most of his baskets came in the first and second quarter. He disappeared in the third and fourth quarter like he always does when the defensive intensity goes up a notch.
Our franchise player was a revolving door on defense. Barg is not a great defensive player. But at least I can admit it. When will this board stop giving our franchise player a free ride. Padding stats like Elton brand and Zach Randolph (he owned bosh in memphis) does not make you a franchise player. What has Bosh accomplished in Toronto? We have a mediocre team that has anointed a mediocre franchise player.
What did Pau Gasol accomplish in Memphis…nothing…guess he’s just another overrated scrub…oh wait…didn’t he win a title in L.A. All you f#cking whiners deserve to have the shittiest team in BB. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have something to complain about every f#cking day. Wait until Bosh gets traded to a contender and wins a title and you will see who has the last laugh…bunch of f#cking whiny losers.
Arsenalist
Great post as usual. you said everything that I wanted to say. The only positive that I think this game brought, is the fact that this team is going to change for better or for worst. They can not stay the same after that dunk.
As far as Paul Pierce and as someone here called him a “true profesional”, I am sorry, it is all BS. Paul is coward at its best. His move was foul with elbow and knee. He is thug and like all the thugs, when he sees a weaker person, he attacks and goes after them and acts all tough.
When he is competeing against a tougher opponent, he will be little rabit hiding in his hole. I can not wait till Artest spank him on the floor.
shahinc…you f#cking moron. Name one other incident in where PP did something that was considered thug-like. You Raptor fans are the most whiny f#cking bitches ever.He went up for a dunk and inadvertently kneed Bosh in the groin.If you think for a second that it was somehow pre-meditated you are really too stupid to be on this site and I question just how you get through the day being a total f#cking retard. He got a tech for taunting…big f#cking deal. Has this never happened before. I bet if you did a poll of NBA players, coaches, managers, writers and analysts, you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would call PP a thug…jackass!!!
It wasn’t the dunk,you stupid fuck,it was the standing over another possibly injured player and flexing.
I’ve always likes PP”s game,but I guess all the time he’s spending playing with cone head has rubbed off on him !!!
Read this article, Wallce calling Turk a flopper and the writer of the article says Bosh was ” Apparently”injured . This team has lost the resspect of the league ( if the even had little ) and all the thugs in NBA gonna take a run at them and test them now.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/28/rasheed.flopping.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
Wow that article says alot.
If I were Bosh or part of raps management I would be boiling with anger over that last sentence.
Brutal, no respect.
But maybe we don’t deserve any – not ONE player came to help Bosh back up? The fuck? We still do that in pickup where I come from.
How do you get respect when you let teams do what ever they want to on the court.
No one is going to give Bosh respect. He has not earned it in this league. He has stats (20/10) like Zach Randolph and Elton Brand but like them has achieved nothing.
Hey you f#cking morons…Bosh wasn’t injured…did he miss the rest of the game…will he be playing Sunday against Phoenix. He was hurt…TEMPORARILY…and then like any other professional athlete, got up and finished the f#cking game. You guys act like Pierce f#cking shot him…enough of the melodrama. Get a f#cking life!
“A word on Andrea Bargnani, he’s not just under the bus, the bus ran over him, backed up, ran over him again hard, backed up again and then stood on top of him before backing up and running over him again.”
You must have been watching a different game?
The only guy getting run over EVERY time down the floor was CB4 who didn’t stop anybody – not even once!
Yeah, I was watching the Atlanta/Philly game the whole time. Silly me.
Defensively, they were both garbage in defending the PnR, what’s new about that? The game was close in the third, our offense went into a funk. Bosh didn’t demand the ball or get any touches (turnovers etc) and was only 2-2 FG. Bargnani was 1-5FG in that quarter, all jumpers:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3323/bargnanishotchart.png
He got benched by his coach, if Triano’s able to see it so clearly even though BC’s in his early about his minutes, why can’t you just acknowledge that Bargnani had a shitty game? Why is that so hard? I’m sure he’ll bounce back against Phoenix but fact remains – he played like shit.
Keep in mind now, this is a freshly signed $10M player, not a sophomore “finding his way” in the league. Set the expectation bar a little higher.
Arsenalist, before last night’s game there were only 4 players in the NBA averaging more PPG who had a higher eFG% than Bargnani. How can you justify an offensive gameplan that uses him sparingly?
He took 1 shot in the first half of last night’s game? This isn’t a rare occurence. Go back and watch the tapes. There have already been 10+ games this season where he’s been effecitvely frozen out by his teammates (usually Jose and Bosh). There’s no excuse for our 2nd option (currently one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA) to be going 8-9 minutes without a single touch.
Why put up with his weaknesses on the defensive end if you’re not going to maximize the positives? You have ignored this in every single game recap.
Shots are not touches. Bargnani would try to take his man when he did get the ball. Otherwise he was very lethargic on offense and didn’t get open enough. Bargnani’s had some great games this year. Last night he didn’t show up.
What happened to Bosh in the third and fourth quarter. You know that he usually disappears in those quarter against physical teams and players. He could not defend Zach Randolph, was neutralized by Dudley, the list goes on. He scores his points in the first and second quarters only. When will he step up and take responsibility for his shortcomings.
I didn’t think Pierce’s dunk was a dirty play. He shielded with the left which many players do to give them seperation and the knee was inadvertent. The taunting was a bit unnecessary but it’s one play in a game.
Jack said in the post-game that he didn’t think it was dirty and he didn’t confront anyone cause he saw Chris on the ground and he wanted to ensure her was alright. He’d just been struck in the groin and he didn’t see him move afterwards, so I have no issue with Jack. Maybe you want to see some response but truthfully told, crownings happen. Barg’s had one on Andersen the other night, nice play move on cause there’s still countless possessions left in the game and we didn’t come with enough good performances to beat the Celts. The Celt’s are the top team in the conference in my opinion and are difficult to score against.
Wright talked about looking themselves in the mirror which I think they all need to do including him cause he made too many bad decisions on the floor to be talking loud.
Bottom line, it’s abot intensity and playing ball. Bosh was efficient last night, Turk’s in stretches, Jack and Nesto. Everyone needs to bring it to beat the Celt’s. Needed a better effort from Barg’s but he had some turnovers that jolted his confidence and the Celtics can defend, it happens. I’m getting accustomed to seeing poor defence, but in the third quarter it was increasingly frustrating to not see them getting into their sets or get any dribble penetration from the guards.
Chuck Swirsky’s take Re: Pierce on Bosh
http://twitter.com/swirsk054/status/6133899638
http://twitter.com/swirsk054/status/6144732322
I miss chuck, a true fan.
Wow – at least someone is acknowledging that the team had no onions after that play.
Arse – please comment on the nba.com story and how they end it by calling Bosh a pansy faker. Brutal
That story was on ESPN last night before it was on NBA.com. The “apparently injured” part at the end bugs me, especially since it’s on the league’s official website. The pansy part might be true but the faker bit is just wrong. A knee to the groin can shake anybody up, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re injured, it just takes a little time to recover.
agreed with Chuck these guys are a bunch of pussies. They deserved to be booed and kicked out of town.
Honestly first of all thank you for the comment on sheed, hes an old senile bastard looking for attention, honestly if he wants if he wants to talk about the league being watered down, lets talk about how that bitch stopped trying while detroit was in the playoffs cause he had beef with flip saunders. In terms of the whole bosh incident, fuck paul pierce, when any nba player gets injured regardless who even kwame brown, thats his career ur putting at risk showing, a little dignity as a human being and perhaps helping him up would have been the classy thing to do. Our team chemistry is bullshit, im an advocate for fuckin trading calderon and bargnani and whoever else doesnt want to play defense, brian colangelo needs to see the flaws in having these bitchtits on our team. Oakley said it best about the raps, u cant have 5 scorers on the floor at the same time, aint enough touches, you need some role players in there, i hope this loss opens up BC’s eyes that this team his some deeply rooted flaws and this pussy raptor culture needs to change now
I agree that whoever does not play defense should be traded. Since Bosh might have been efficient in scoring (first and second quarters only and as usual against a physical team he became irrelevant during the third and fourth quarter) he was a disaster on the defensive end. He was brutal. Our franchise player should be the first one traded and then calderon.
Bargnani also played terrible defense but his current year contract is only for 6.8 million not 16 million like Bosh. If he resigns that contract will be 20 million. Look at the video of the charlotte game, when Bosh was on the floor without barg (not justifying that barg is a defensive player)the bobcats made their major run in the third.
I definitely agree that we should trade those players that don’t play defense.
I try to be a very loyal fan, and abstain from complaining about my Raps (not good for my mental health), but this was an EXCELLENT article and I think you hit a lot of nails on the head.
One thing I’d like to get some feedback on is this: Have you noticed how certain players on the team have zero faith in certain others while on the floor? For example, it’s almost as if the only player who has any belief in Rasho is Jack, he’s the only one that will feed him a pass in the lane, Jose will look him off – Bosh definitely has his favourites. I know Weems isn’t the greatest player on the floor, but the point is that he’s on the floor! You have to treat him like he’s the starting SG when he is. I don’t think I’ve seen Bosh pass to Weems all season. It looks like players pass to DeRo and Amir only because they HAVE to, not because they think he can make a play.
In my opinion this is the MAIN problem with the Raps. I don’t know how to judge Triano because it seems there’s few players who believe in his message, and while I would typical blame a coach for that lack of vision, I’m apprehensive to blame him because these players don’t believe in ANYONE, so why I should I think that has the capability of making them believe in him?
Trust issues end up being teamwork issues. This isn’t pick-up ball where you don’t pass to the shitty guy on the floor, I’m assuming that there is some structure in Triano’s sets which dictate when/who gets the ball. A lot of it is common sense and reaction but I still can’t agree that we have players who “look off” others. If somebody is open and he doesn’t get the pass, it’s a teamwork issue, not an “X doesn’t like Y” issue.
Jack/Rasho on the high screen is a good combo but so is Jose/Rasho, we just haven’t seen much of them together on the floor.
That’s it.. Raptors are not good enough for Toronto tribal honking fans. Fold the team and send it to … Buffalo. Restock it with dudes from the hood and send the Euros back home.
If Bosh leaves the Raptors, as it now appears inevitable .. the tribal honking fans will have nobody to “love” … who can love soft Euros not willing to fight for Toronto …????!!!!!
Now that Pierce has kneed Bosh and crumpled him like a rag doll, that is the end of the Raptor team … they got no cojones that tribal honking fans demand of their heroes.
To Quote Mike Singletary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc
“Can not play with them,
Can not win with them,
Can not Coach with them,
Can’t Do It…….
I WANT WINNERS!
I want people that want to win.”
BC has got to trade either Bargs or Calderon. After about 20 games we see, this team is gonna be an historically awful defense. Turk doesn’t try, Bargs is completely unaware, and Calderon isn’t capable of guarding anyone.
And Triano’s gotta stop with the Caledron/Jack Backcourt.
Im taking a vacation from this team in the month of December. I figure why waste my time and patience watching this team hover around .500 with it’s amazing offense and horrible defense.
The weaknesses are easy to identify…………..will BC do anything about it mid season?
Sho … what you must understand and accept is that this is the best Toronto fans can expect because good NBA players from the US don’t want to play in and for Toronto .. it’s a foreign country with no appeal for the US dudes. Why can’t you get that through your head … Toronto is like being banished from the US NBA … plain and simple.
If you think that top level US NBA players will come to Canada even for more money, you are sadly deluded. When Bosh leaves, and now that is inevitable after the Celtic game, there will be nobody for the tribal honking fans to “love” … and no hope for “wins” or “championships” … which is all they live for … believe it.
You are right FAQ, I don’t know why I never saw it and finally, you were able to prove to me with your posts. You are right, BC is a gret GM abd he has made the best team that anyone can make for Toronto in NBA.
You are correct, Jay is the best coach so more credit to BC since no one else will come to Toronto anyway.
This team is playing the best basketball possible , althought as you put it they are yet ” ungelled” so Raptor fans can wait for better days.
Thanks to you and your informative posts, I can see we are lucky to have BC, Jay and this team in the city of Toronto.
However, I still don’t understand how they have more than 3 wins before Xmass ;)
Colangelo is going to bring in Vujacic and Luke Walton for the toughness next season, mark my words. Iavoroni will be head coach. Rinse repeat.
Joey … add to that Lee, Gallinari and Darko from NYK and the Raptors will be totally bleached out …LOL
Yep, that too. The guy loves soft players. Can’t have tough athletes who will do anything to win.
Why Not,Can we get anyone better !!! You just had over 10 posts making all of us belive that no Brother from south is willing to come to Toronto. So why not take LEE and … Are you contradicting yourself and thinking we can get better players now !!!! Make up your mind , you super NBA Analyst, allraptor fans are waiting for your take on this.
Excellent Job Colangelo. I saw a video years ago interviewing Jerry Colangelo and his thoughts on Toronto giving him a Job as President and GM.
He looked very shocked and basically was surprised someone had high regards for his son. I think he even knew Bryan wasn’t good enough to manage a team but nevertheless, he was happy for him.
And that Fat Italian Fuck Gherardini – the Euro Jesus of B Ball. Marc Gasol averaging 154 rebounds a game in is rookie season thus far. Where you watching your Italian soap operas on TLN instead of scouting him?
Bargnani over Roy, Gay, Perkins, Rondo, Aldridge, Millsap? OK
1st of all Marc Gasol is in his second year. Secondly, the Raptors didn’t have a pick in that draft. Congratulations on your fail.
Because Colangelo wasn’t able to buy a pick right? The same idiot who rejected a TJ Ford for Gerald Wallace because Wallace had bad character….LOL He’s now leading the league in rebounds but oh well.
Ford for Wallace was on the table, but I believe the reason it fell through is because Wallace didn’t want to play in Toronto, not necessarily because of his character as perceived by Colangelo.
Out of the thirty 2nd round picks that year, 4 are seeing regular minutes with their team. So by your logic 26 teams have morons as GMs.
No, just great GM’s who knwo what they are doing
I guess you are aware out of those four players none of them actually played for the team that drafted them.
You do know that Perkins was drafted in 2003, right?
Not one scout or analyst as I recall had ANY of those players over Bargs with the exception of Aldridge. Perhaps you have the link where you recommended Rondo or Gay first overall?
And why are Peddie and Tanenbaum still running the Raptors and Leafs?
These idiots should be thrown out on there ass.
Since taking over MLSE has tripled in value. Peddie is a businessman and it’s his duty to make money. Congratulations on your new fail.
How do you fail on the internet posting a message?
I don’t fail. I am awesome. You clearly are unaware of what the duty of Peddie and Tanenbaum is. They are businessmen. And they are very successful.
A successful person would be able to win championships with a $150 billion dollar teachers pension behind them and all the money in the world.
Not one person, if you go on the street and talk to random people would have a positive thing to say about this current ownership.
It’s the duty of the Pension to make money, not win championships. I think we all would prefer to have some rich SOB run the show, but that is not the case. MLSE is a business and unfortunately for fans, the bottom line takes precedence over winning.
I didn’t see the game, thank goodness. But after seeing highlights, and reading up, it seems to me that Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon cannot all three be on the floor at the same time unless the offence is really running well. Add Jack at the 2, and no wonder we are easier to penetrate then well…[insert here any number of sexual references].
The play by Pierce was not an intentional knee, but neither did Pierce try to avoid Bosh. That was as it should be. Pierce’s taunt was the definition of unsportsmanlike, so a technical should be called, no question. The foul, in my eyes occurred when Pierce knocked Rasho’s hand out of the way – but I don;t expect Rasho to get that call against an all-star like Pierce. Too bad Matt Bonner wasn’t on the floor – he would have at least made it known that you don;t knock down our franchise without hearing about it. I am surprised Jose didn’t get more steamed.
Speaking of Calderon, I think he is only passable on D on a team that has better shot-blockers and people who can intimidate in the paint. Conversely, Bargnani and Bosh together are only passable on teams with better guards and small forward at keeping their man in front of them. I think that before any personnel issues are sorted out from BC’s end (it is indeed far too early), we need to look at different lineups.
I appreciate that Triano has been steady with his lineups. It is the only way to go early in a season so that a sense of chemistry and continuity is formed. But I think this many games in, we still haven’t seen the beginnings of improvement. It is time to shake things up.
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As a sidenote: there was a question in an earlier article: would I trade Bosh for Yao? Well, if it is a foregone conclusion that Bosh will leave, then yes I would make the trade. If Yao is healthy, I think yes. I would rather have Bosh and Yao on my team together, no question, but I think Yao and Bargs could pose a formidable problem in the half-court. And on defense, we would have someone that is highly intelligent in the post, and a legitimate threat to alter shots.
As much as I was disappointed by The Raps last night, The Celtics don’t look like a championship calibre team any more. They are not better than the team that won two years ago – Garnett and Allen are no where near as good and they miss the intensity of Posey. The current version of Rasheed Wallace isn’t as good as PJ Brown or Leon Powe.
Not to defend Triano, but Turkoglu was pulled early in the 3rd quarter because he picked up his fourth foul. This was a legit strategic move. I knew as soon as Rondo stole the ball from Bosh and went in for the dunk we were in trouble. On the road, the 3rd quarter is often where the game is won or lost. Triano needs to understand his team’s tendancy to suck in the third quarter and use his timeouts. As far as the Pierce hit goes, I don’t think it was a dirty play. The posing and taunting afterward was over the top however. The Raptors will make them pay at the ACC. These guys WILL respond. It’s still early…
I hope you’re right about Turk being pulled after getting his 4th foul in the 3rd quarter.
He was issued his 4th foul around the beginning of the third quarter. That’s the reason why he was pulled.
How the Raptors respond from here on in will tell a lot about the team. Funny thing is, nobody cares about the Suns game tomorrow, we’re all still trying to get over how badly we got humiliated last night, and rightly so. It’s one thing to lose a basketball game, it’s another to get disrespected and shat on.
I’m late to this party and missed the game last night due to traveling. Just wanted to say excellent post Arsenalist. You have stated things clearly. And great point about Bosh and toughness. As disgusted as it was for our players to stand around Bosh after he got hurt, if I were him, soon as I had some feeling back in my johnson I would have slapped Pierce in the head. Seriously, suspension or not. You have to make a statement. Again, is this a franchise player? Sorry, but everyone on the team is following his lead. Time for a culture change. This is as bad as the team reaction after the TJ mugging.
I agree with you. People blame Bargs, and the rest of the team for bieng pussies but take a look at your leader first. We have a soft leader in bosh and since he’s the leader, the team follows him! I remember granger pushing bosh because apprently granger didn’t like how bosh treated one of his teammates. My expectatoins of Bosh at that time was to atleast step to granger and confront to him why he was push him and atleast step up for himself.
No rather, he just walked away and made marion ( i think) at that time to step up for him. I also recall the Calderon incident with Garnett in boston (again) last season. KG taunted calderon and did calderon backed down? no. he went up to KG’s face and said some shit to him. Bosh at that time, nowhere to be found. Do you think if Bosh was taunted by KG he would go up to KG’s face? no. So you guys have to realize that Bosh in the first place won’t say nothing to PP if that happened to Turk or Calderon(for instance).
God damn Triano is a terrible coach.
To all you Bosh Haters, Relax, the guy will be gone next season and you can live with 3 pts of AB. this is what Jay said about the incident of last night:
“I was pretty focused on what was going on in front of me. I didn’t realize until I watched it on tape that we had backed off as much as we did,” the coach said. “I think if I was Chris I would confront my teammates.
So you rather continue being led by a franchise player who has not delivered in the clutch or achieved anything for Toronto. I am not big Barg fan but do you think it can be any worse without Bosh. I can imagine if we have had success or achieved anything in the past few years it may get people upset if he was traded. The world will not end if Bosh is traded to another team.
Toronto is missing a tough inside presense (Bosh cannot handle physical players – against the Nets in the playoffs, Jason Collins basically neutralized him)which our franchise player cannot provide. He may get his points in the first and second quarter but when the defensive intensity goes up, he becomes irrelevant. Check his career stats in the third and fourth quarters and compare year by year. He also slows down the offense by holding onto the ball too long and causing a lot of turnovers.
So is this your definition of a franchise player, one who has achieved nothing.
N.B. I would rather have AB shoot a three than our franchise player trying to hoist a three when tied in the third quarter of a close game (Phoenix 83-83 tied in third quarter)
I am a Raptor fan and not Bosh fan or AB fan or … Do you really think Raptors is a better team right now without Bosh ?
Do you remeber Jay’s interview in summer on how it was Sam’s game plan to give the ball on ofence to Bosh and hence the offence used to get stagnent. He said he is gonna change that but apperantly he has not been able to.
Your user name and all your posts are about Bosh. You make it seem like Bosh is the only problem this team has . Do you really think the rest of team is playing like Crap because of Bosh ??
Now, lets think Bosh is gone. Who do you think you can get in Toronto? Kobe, Lebron, Wade !!!! Look at our history, Stoudemier, Camby, Tracy, Davis, Vince and … All wanted out !!!
I agree with you that Bosh is not a Max player. But in a League that AB makes 10, Aldrige makes 10-12, Hedo makes 10-12, I think Bosh is well worth 15-16.
First of all barg is making 6.52 million in the current year. Next year he will be making 8 million and afterwards 9, 10, 11, 12 million respectively. Bosh is making 15.8 million this year. If he opts out of his contract (most likely), he can be offered 20 million+ if he signs with Toronto (can also offer a sixth year) or in a sign and trade to another team. If you look at the salaries of both players there is a BIG difference. Do I expect more from Bosh. Of course I do.
You pose an interesting question. Will the team be better without Bosh? Let me alter the question so that we can analyze the situation better. Has the team performed good or great with Chris Bosh. NO. Is Bosh going to lead us to the promised land. NO. He is a good player but is only a complimentary piece with a secondary role.
I don’t want to blame Bosh for the raptor’s failure. I just want the Toronto media and blogs to be critical of his shortcomings. He is getting a free ride and should be accountable. He chokes under pressure, can’t deliver in the second half (scores most of his points in the first and second half) of games when the defensive intensity goes up a notch, terrible defender (except rebounding), dismal failure in the playoffs (Nets & Magic) and poor leadership skills. Is this the type of player that you want to award a max contract?
I think my user-name is quite appropriate. Named it after one of Bosh’s trademarks moves – in the 4th quarter, hold the ball too long, get stripped and have a turnover leading to a easy basket for the other team.
I am sure that many GMs are ready to pay him the max. I hope Toronto is not one of them.
Arse, I’ve been reading you for a long time — and this was your best post ever. Kudos.
You guys are forgetting that we have “The Architect” Brian Colangelo at the helm. If we do poorly this year, we’ll just blow the whole thing up and start over. After 17 games, the Raps are 7-10. Sam Mitchell got fired for a lot less. I wonder when BC’s gonna start throwing Triano under the bus. My guess is this point next season.
Opps again … RR apparently won’t accept URL embeds … but it’s also on YouTube in all it’s gory details.
Pierce had poor Rasho one-on-one at the top of the key and just blew by him as if he didn’t exist … Rasho even had to cross over his legs in a futile attempt to stay with Pierce … and there was Bosh standing by his lonely self under the basket watching the train bearing down on him … pa thetic…!!!!
None of the Raptor players cared about Bosh laying there and just ran downcourt leaving him doubled over and writhing in pain and disgrace .. except for Jose who stayed back for the throw-in.
Maybe the players don’t really care about Bosh because they know he is soon headed off either by trade, or through 2010 free agency. Why care for somebody who will not be a Raptor sooner or later..??!!!
honestly… this is the most degrading thing that has ever happened to this team. I did not think there was a bigger douche than that guy from that miller’s genuine commercial where he jumps over a guy to get a bottle opener or whatever and after that the douche goes on hitting on some other douche girl.
what shocked me most was how none of the players were enraged by such an action… i think the raptor fans have to demonstrate to the team what true passion is. next time boston plays in toronto someone has to throw a drink in their c**tics faces or something. this is just plain unacceptable. it’s pissing me off more than say if we lost by 40 points to the knicks.
You mean the same fans who have the utmost passion for VC, what, 5 years after the fact? Not saying this isn’t a problem though. Just saying I don’t think they notice. After all, they know what’s important. Hey, that be number 15. I know what to do. Sad. Really.
Boston C***ics, Toronto P*****s. Both names fit.
Here’s hoping the P’s don’t sneak into the playoffs. They’re going to need that lottery pick
The team needs to change their identity and their culture. They tend to be over-humble on the court that’s why they’re on the losing streak and defence is very soft. Most Raptors players let their opponents pwned them because they believe being humble is the most important thing.
Yes, we should show humbleness towards other opponents — that’s what also constitutes as sportsmanship. I’m very proud that I’m cheering for a team where most of its players are exercising sportsmanship everytime they play. However, they must learn when to limit their humbleness. They have to show their opponents that they can’t be intimidated in any way.
Athletes like LeBron James, Dion Phaneuf, and Floyd Mayweather are very nice people, but in the game, they are bad-ass! Because being a bad-ass helps you become more tougher, and more focused in the game. Throw a little amount of trash talk into the opponent’s ear and that would lower their self-esteem.
The game vs Celtics should be a learning for the Raptors. They should start exposing their ego towards their opponents. Books like Art of War, 48 Laws of Power, 33 Strategies of War, and The Prince should be a required reading after practice and on the plane.
SOUNDS LIKE MY LIBRARY. I AGREE COMPLETLY. THESE GUYS HAVE A HEART THE SIZE OF A CHIPMUNK. I WONDER IF THEY WOULD STAND UP FOR THERE WIVES IF PIERCE WALKED PASS AND PINCHED THERE ASS. LOL. PUNKS.. LET’S GET JOHN WALL BABY!!!!
How do you expect someone to go up for a dunk without lifting their legs? And where were the arms out? I didn’t mean to start an immature debate d279, I was just stating how I saw it from a C’s point of view. This was just a play that your “franchise player” got his shell rocked and you are trying to make up excuses to try to ignore that fact. If you didn’t like what Pierce did after, that is one thing, but the dunk was clearly legal and Bosh was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
the dunk wasn’t even close to ‘legal’… his knees came up into Bosh’s junk. He led with his knee…. it may not have been intentional, but that doesn’t make it any more ‘legal’
re: fair dunk
STFU
people get dunked on all the time in the NBA BUT how often do you see the player getting posterized also get kneed in the crotch?!?
What else would he lead with, his right nut? I’m sorry but thats how you get off for a dunk. Look at the Jordan logo on all of his clothes for some reference. Bosh’s junk was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and he paid for it.
Actually that was not an offensive foul. Bosh was inside the restricted area, if anything the refs took pity on Bosh as it was, if anything a blocking foul for the contact. The refs reacted to the fact that Bosh was hurt on the floor and Pierce flexing on top of him. Good call by the refs on the tech. Though if Lebron were to do that, as he mostly does, it is seldom whistled. Your real gripe here should be with the Raps bench and their lack of brotherhood for a better word and the fact that Bosh didn’t get on Pierce as soon as he recovered. That was the least that he could do and try to spark something for his team. If not for that game on a losing cause, at least fuel for the next. Artest did it in the playoffs last year when he got in Kobe’s grill for elbowing him on the throat.
Jordan’s logo is with his legs spread apart. Not one knee out.
Go out to your driveway… lower your net to any ‘dunkable height’… video tape yourself dunking and tell me how many times you dunk with your knee up and leading the way. You’ll notice you lead with your chest.
Hell watch a random game… find a dunk and tell me how many times players have their knee forward.
Video tape your self dunking and see what part of your leg comes up first. Your foot dont get there by itself you have to put your knee out to get your entire leg like that. Kind of confusing but just go out for a dunk like you said and see if you can get to the Jordan pose without lifting your knee out like Pierce last night. Pierce lifted off with his knee up, like any player does, and Bosh’s junk was sitting there waiting for it. Too bad for Bosh but it was definetly a good no-call.
If that was truelly the case… why do you not see this happen more often? Its almost always chest on chest when someone gets dunked on… not knee on knee, or knee on leg, or knee on junk.
Like I said, I don’t think it was intentional, more reactionary than anything, but doesn’t change the fact that this was an offensive foul.
The dunk in question was executed in the same way as Karl Malone did for almost 20 years; all defenders know that if they were going to challenge his drive to the hoop, they were going to feel some pain from a knee, foot, or forearm.
Even if Bosh hadn’t take a knee in the stomach, Pierce is a bitch for flexing and we need some players who care enough to do something about it. No, I don’t mean hurting anybody, I mean guys who will make the opposition think before they disrespect us.
And just maybe, in the offing, this team could build some confidence that may translate into some wins.
And no, i wouldn’t want to see the likes of Pierce on our team for any reason. I loathe the C**tics with the passion of the Christ. Except for Ray Allen.
Nicely Said.