The ‘ain’t no reason to sleep on this team’ edition.
Banks – he was seen working on his tan behind the bench.
Bargnani – if I told you he had 1 rebound in 33 minutes, would you be surprised? The guy rebounds as well as a bag of water thrown at a brick wall.
Belinelli – must be his turn in the moon cycle, because he (and his mouthguard) hit stride in this game. Seemed to be raining 3s (even though he only hit 3) and they hit at times that seemed to crush the Clippers spirit. About as efficient as you’ll ever see him.
Bosh – top 5 in the NBA right now. No question. 21 pts and 14 boards…and it seemed like he had 4 times that. He has made the paint his home and his hunger for the ball is only matched by RapsFan’s hunger for lapdances on a Friday night. Bosh’s fire lit this team up tonight.
Calderon – his delayed reaction to getting hit by an elbow was Arsenal-esque in its beauty. Other than that, his game continues to improve (18pts on 8/14 and 9 assists), he still needs to drive more and for those of you with video editing prowess, you can easily use tonights game and make a DIY music video using Jose as the star for this song.
DeRozan – I have to feel sorry for the kid. First game home, 11 minutes, 2 points, and a shameful display of basketball in front of his friends and family. He saw more positive airtime in the 3minute halftime segment than he did on the Staples Center floor.
Douby – DNP – GF
Evans - faker.
Jack – had about 4 minutes of worthy play tonight. The remainder of his 16 minutes meant as much to this victory as sunlight means to a vampire. Not sure what is wrong and why he isn’t sliding into his role as anticipated. Maybe he is taking the news that he isn’t bunking with Bosh on the road a bit too hard.
Johnson – probably the best 19min of ball played by a Raptor reserve this season 7pts/7rebs, he was all over the floor. Loved seeing him in the face of the officials fighting for calls and, just as importantly, taking up the cause of talking on D.
Nesterovic – he reminds me of that uncle at your family picnic. You know, the one that is a bit older than you last remembered, but just active enough that he wants to take part in the picnic games. You let him throw the ball a bit and then put your arm around his shoulder and walk him back to his chair so he can watch the rest of the game. That is your 2009/2010 Rasho Nesterovic.
O’Bryant – Triano pointed to him tonight, but that was just to ask who he was.
Turkoglu- damaged goods? Beginning to think so. Sure, he “recently” hurt his hip, but that’s like saying I “recently” felt the need to eat. Something is wrong with our big signing and if it means sitting him, then do it. He looked like a hockey player trying to play a game of ball at the gym. Sit him out.
Weems – nice black outfit tonight. Pimpin’ ain’t easy, brother.
Wright – nice effort again. Perfect example of how this team can click if all the role players play slightly above their average ability. Nice to see him involved in some ball movement tonight as well…something he seemed to forget how to do in the past few games.
Driving The Bus: Marco Belinelli
Under The Bus: DeMar DeRozan
Game Theme:
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102 Raps
This post is a shame. The team pulled a fantastic win and a huge moral booster. Calderon’s “delayed reaction”? Hedo’s “damaged goods”? Whatever.
This was a game that the Raptors were supposed to win. The Raptors have a history of beating the Clippers and the Clippers were missing a key cog in their lineup.
It was a good win, and yes, important to boost morale. But AltRaps is keeping a level head here – there is both praise and criticism where it is due. I probably would have mentioned the zero turnovers for Jose and that we weren’t terribly out-rebounded (36 to 34 for the Clips), but we at least kept our team turnovers low (9 to the Clips’ 15).
We beat the Clippers. I wouldn’t call this a “fantastic win” or a “huge morale booster”. It’s great to get the W, but let’s keep things in perspective.
This post is beyond lame. Reminds of some nerdy kid in desperate need of attention. Taking shots at Banks and POB is like picking on a fat kid with with pimples and body odour. Anybody can do it, but it’s usually some insecure jackass with nothing better to do…it gets really boring after a while. As for the Raps…despite their dismal start they rebounded well. Bellinelli looks like he is rounding into form. If Jack can step up and Hedo and Reggie can get healthy, the Raps will be pretty exciting this year…especially if their defense improves…GO RAPS!
If Arse had written this post, you would be congratulating him on an “great post”
Dude, are you retarded. I don’t know Arse from a hole in the wall.
I was actually at the game. And this post makes little sense, it’s like watching the 30 second ESPN recap showing a few dunks. Lame. Anyhow. Yes, it’s the Clippers. Yes, we are supposed to beat them. But this is the NBA. And you fall down by 20 to ANY team, it is a tough road to victory. For once, bag the W and zip it…
Arsenalist wouldn’t have written this post.
I agree that this is a lame post that looks like you AltRaps could not wait to slam a few of your favorites. Are you kidding with Wright nice effort? All he does is shoot the ball horribly when he’s on and overlooks better shooters. Bellinelli is no fluke..he needs regular time and should be taking it from Jack and Wright at the two as he’s better than both. Bargnani’s rebounding numbers were poor but this team did little to get him involved early. He never saw the ball for the first 8 minutes as it was the Bosh Jose hog team all over again. He made two quick drives for hoops and blocked a shot then was benched when they were down by two. The Clippers surge was with Bargs on the bench and Bosh forcing everything. You overlooke he was 8 of 13 with two blocks and agressive defense especially in the second half. Your post is a joke because you use it to praise your pals and slam your favorites regardless of the play.
Got to totally disagree with Wright. He played solid D and did all the little things right. Did not force shots, made some nice passes, good D. If it wasn’t for wanting to develop DD, Wright would be starting.
Belli had a nice game… but until (if) he does that consistently, Wright should definetely be getting those minutes.
Agreed that Wright played a solid game defensively and did not force shots, but I guess what I was trying to say is he needs to start looking for better shooters because he looks past better shooters that are open. He also needs to know his role as that’s what I am frustrated with. Otherwise I’m very happy with his play versus the Moon era.
As for Belli’s consistency I agree other than it’s tough to be consistent when you don’t get consistent minutes in similar situations. He’s not Ginobili so he needs playing time to develop.
“Bargnani’s rebounding numbers were poor but this team did little to get him involved early.”
So we can excuse Bargnani’s rebounding because the team wasn’t getting him involved? That’s exactly when he should be getting HIMSELF involved by doing things like rebounding! Can you imagine that line being used about Bosh? He would be cannibalized for being lazy or sulking while the ball was out of his hands.
I’m finding it more difficult by the day to associate with Raptors fans. People creating excuses for Bargnani and creating blame for Bosh. I like Bargs, he’s a good player that can win games for you with his offense alone. Bosh is a top 5 player in the NBA. He can hog the ball all he damn well pleases, give me a fucking break.
I’m not creating excuses for anyone but obviously you’ve never played ball. Bargs is not Reggie Evans, or Amir Johnson, or Wright ( in other words not a role player) He’s a multi talented player that needs to be in the game, not looked off by his teamates time and again for their own forced shots.
i dont care if bosh is the best player in the nba, he struggles to create for himself, and i think thats obvious. so whats the point of him throwing up shots when we can go through bargnani or any other raptor on the floor and get bosh dunks or open jump shots?
thats pretty ignorant of you. aaaannnnd bargnani is the our x factor, if he has a big game we win, you know what you’re going to get from everybody else, so why not force him to get involved early? if thats what he needs, then its just bad coaching to not get him going early.
you coach what you have and try and get the most out of your players, you dont coach what you know and force your players to adapt to you. you find systems that fit the talent and types of players you have.
To Pizzaman & cp:
I disagree that Bosh struggles to create for himself. Maybe in 1-on-1 20 feet from the basket while he’s facing up, but from 15 ft in he can do whatever he wants, from shooting the J to posting up to taking his man off the dribble.
To your point, the problem is then the coaching rather than Bosh himself. Calling Bosh a selfish player is absolutely ludicrous, he’ll do whatever it takes to win and I think he’s shown that. In the past few years, that’s meant he needs to be the primary option on offense. We can see him drifting away from that now, like he did in the Olympics where he was integral to the gold.
Bargnani is the X factor, I completely agree. But Bosh brings it EVERY NIGHT. When Bargs is on, it means we have 2 very good-excellent players. When he’s not, it’s down to 1 and makes winning very difficult.
I played ball my whole life and that has nothing to do with anything being discussed. Bosh FG% is very good, thus that PROVES he doesn’t force shots like you insist. Not saying Bargs is a bad player, but he’s a CLEAR #2 on this team and the fans need to recognize that, or suffer when he’s promoted to #1 next year. That will be a real wake-up to many people around here, and I’m afraid it’ll happen because Bosh is tired of dealing with unfair criticism.
i don’t think bosh is selfish because i get the feeling he doesnt really care all that much about his stats or touches and i think he genuinely wants to win.
however, bosh is much better finishing off offensive posessions then he is at being involved in them mid shot clock, which i think is more of bargnani’s strength simply because i think he’s more versitile and offers more of a threat at that point in the clock.
ideally i would like to see the high pick and rolls they run with bargnani instead of bosh and let him pop for shots or make the pass after a drive to bosh or pull up for the jumpshot. i think bosh, when he’s decisive, which hes been much better at this year then the previous few, should be getting the ball in the low post after a couple passes so that he’s one on one and will score at will.
they both offer different skill sets, its just a matter of fitting them together properly. bosh is definitely the most consistent of the two, but i think bargnani is the most dynamic scorer and arguably the most clutch player on the team. i only say that because i’ve seen bosh fumble passes and get intimidated too many times against kg and the other elite post players when the game is on the line with the exception of maybe howard. but even then he gets pushed out of the post and settles for fade away jumpers from 18 feet.
both players have their faults, all i’m saying is lets not get to high on bosh because i think a good portion of his sucess so far has a little something to do with the fact that bargnani is spreading the d and forcing them to guard him at 25 feet. bosh is a great player when he plays within himself. however he wont carry a team to 50 wins by himself like a d-wade, lebron, kobe or even melo.
‘he struggles to create for himself, and i think thats obvious’
He struggles to create for himself but leads the league in FT attempts and there is a second defender being sent at him EVERY time he holds the ball and faces up!
He did a good job of finding open shooters when they doubled him last night.
I’ll take my chances with his decisions at this point in time.
As a team that right now thrives on offensive production there is no other player on the Raptor roster that commands a double team, and that includes Bargnani.
We won’t even get into any rebounding debate, where you can get easy secound chances on the off. boards, as there is no need for discussion there.
just because he gets off a shot or flails and throws something up doesn’t mean they’re good shots, or that he’s a great creator for himself. the added weight and strength has helped him out tons so he’s getting a lot more calls this year because he can go up strong, and thats great, but lets not confuse the two.
and as far as the double teaming goes, why wouldnt teams do that? he is our best post scorer, an adequate passer, but ill take my chances of him passing out of a double team to burn me.
mama said don’t argue with idiots.
point observed and taken.
Good win, but my world-view after the first 2 1/2 quarters was the darkest its ever been, I can’t really remember feeling more pissed off about the Raptors ever before
I am not sure if I have ever gone from pure panic to elation in the course of 2 hours before. At 41-17, I was pretty much ready to find a cliff, and jump off. at 96-89 I was pretty much floating above my seat.
In the first quarter, AB schooled Kaman and drove by him 2 times in the rown with an ease.
Then the Raptors never went back to AB to expose that match up !!! I wonder why we don’t give the ball to someone who is HOT or don’t expose some of these mismatches with AB !!!
Actually, Bargnani schooled Kaman in the first couple of minutes, while allowing Kaman position under the hoop, then Bargnani disappeared. It’s not that the Raptors went away from him, it’s that he did do anything to get the ball, and when he did, he didn’t do anything with it.
It’s that Triano is letting Jose and Bosh go back to the hog show overlooking open players including Bargs to force bad shots.
And that Raptor offense is really suffering because of it, isn’t it?
Did you watch the game? When the Raptors are struggling, they go to Bosh in the post because they know he can manufacture points. When they were hitting, Bosh was willingly passing up shots to give them to teammates. There’s a reason he finished with 6 assists.
Bosh has played great this year but I stand by the fact he will not win any playoff rounds with a team he does not get involved on offence unless he wants to. By my eyes while he is a great player he will not ever be a Lebron, Wade, Kobe type player so he needs to be less selfish. Bottom line he is a hog and forces shots against three guys versus giving it up to an open player. That’s what you call manufacturing points because he often gets to the FT line, but I call hogging because he just as often gets the ball stripped or takes a horrible shot. Also that kind of play may win you enough games to get in the playoffs but then they close him down and he and the rest of the team don’t know what to do because of the game they’re used to playing. The ball movement on the team still sucks and is getting worse. Oh and your comment about the offense is not because of Bosh alone, but rather because the team is loaded with scorers.
Still with the Bosh hate.
“he just as often gets the ball stripped or takes a horrible shot.” This would result in high TO #’s or low FG%. Career TOs = 2.2/game (high of 2.6, near career low of 1.8 this year). Career FG% = 48.7%, and 49.7 this year. So no, those outcomes are not very frequent like you claim.
The team is loaded with scorers? Like whom? Bargnani and Bosh are the only guys that can create for themselves with any sort of consistency. Have you seen Jose try to break his man down 1-on-1? Ugly. Belli is hit or miss, Wright takes as many bad shots as good, Jack hasn’t got it going, Amir shoots layups, DD takes what he can.
Just accept that Bosh is the reason the team has won games. I thought the criticism was far too overblown in the past; now it’s simply indefensible.
I don’t have Bosh hate, but I’m sick of all the praise he recieves even when he’s horrible and the only thing all you guys do is bash Bargs for lack of rebounding. You know jack
When has he been horrible this year?
Well you must be new here (welcome to the conversations) because for the last year is been regular Bosh hate. Maybe I’m still reading things assuming it’s slanted that way, you obviously read it differently. I apologize for taking my cumulative frustration out on you.
But to say he’s EVER been horrible is a bit over the top.
The problem with your theory is that Bosh only forces the action when no one else is hitting, as I’ve said over and over. Last night was a perfect example, as he scored when the rest of the Raptors were going through a dry spell, or were tentative, and gave it up when they started hitting. Kobe does the same thing, as does LeBron, and all the other franchise players. Have you watched them? That’s what franchise players do.
Franchise players are the guys that you lean on when things aren’t going well. That’s their job and Bosh has been up to the task this year more than he ever has. And you’re criticizing him for it.
And last time I checked, the offense was more than fine, so I don’t know why you want it to change.
This post is garbage.
yah i’m with you. not much thought or substance put into it. but whatever.
i really wish derozan had a better game, he’s been busting his butt for us thus far in the season. but i guess like triano said, “he’ll never have to play back home for the first time ever again.”
One of the best Roll Call’s ever and there have been some great ones. Those of you (Daniel) who don’t see the the humour in this are missing out on what these posts are all about.
Good win, Clippers fell apart starting late 2nd. Kaman was killing Bargs all night except for that fade he missed late…good win but Turk looks like he’s 50. Needs fixing.
And Bargs stuffing the Kaman shot in the 4th and taking the ball way.
Until the 4th Kaman was sick. He hit tough, tough contested shots. Great move by Triano to take him away by sending a double in. That’s what turned the tide from tie game to win.
re: “Those of you (Daniel) who don’t see the the humour in this are missing out on what these posts are all about.”
there’s a difference between being humourous and accurate and humourous and inaccurate,e.g. barg’s can’t rebound…bargs can rebound when he puts his mind to it (e.g. 8 and 9 board games)
Bargs has 2 games out of 9 this year where he’s grabbed 7+ boards. So we shouldn’t be blasting him for his (perceived lack of) rebounding ability, we should be blasting him for his complete lack of focus on rebounding. Noted. And I must say, much more disappointing in that light.
Very true. What’s more frustrating, a guy who can’t do something but tries really hard, or a guy who can, but doesn’t seem to care enough to do it?
even the clips with a 22 points lead i still did dont lose hope cause i knew is clipps and at some point they will let us back in the game and guess what they did and we beat them by 15 points
Great post alt. Still I think you should have talked more about Bargs great second half (even though 1 rebound is terrible). This good be good motivation for the raps going into a tough 3 game stretch or they could just play like they did in the first half.
Bargnani had 2 boards…not that that is much better, but al least its accurate.
for some reason it feels good to be a Raptors fan!
Not to be picky – but for some reason RR seems unhappy when the Raps win?
The Rebounds were 34-36 in favor of the Clips. So rebounds weren’t an issue.
Bargs got 2 (not 1), seems low but there were less boards than normal to get and Bosh got 14 of them. Being unhappy with Bargs boards tonight would carry more weight if it mattered. (Save the feeling – you’ll be able to use it later in the road trip)
Hedo was 9/3/5 + a steal. Yes he looked hurt but somehow giving up those 5 assists doesn’t sound very practical. And Wright isn’t going to make up those 9 points.
Wright played reasonably well again but could someone tell him to shoot less. He’s open because the other guys want him to shoot. 1-5 tonight.
Johnson started the season looking bad. Now he’s contributing each time out. Maybe he can play. But whoever thought he grew 2″ to 6′ 11″ should check again.
Triano has to stop playing Jack & Calderon together. It doesn’t work plus it’s hurting Jack’s game.
A great comeback win! Should make all of Leaf’s Nation cry in their beer.
brothersteve…as always your comments are conscise, accurate and insightful…RR bloggers could learn a lot from you.
Nice post brothersteve. Knowledgable, relevant stats and concise. Unlike most of the RR writers who rely on lame attempts at humor and bad grammar.
Altraps: the game wasn’t pretty and I realize this may be mentioned later but this post didn’t even give an idea of the tone of the game eg. Bad D for Raps then Bad O and decent D by raps. Also, what about the comeback?
Rebounds WERE an issue. Yes, total games stats were about even. But the 1st quarter it was something like 10-4 for the Clippers. Why? Andrea can’t get it done. I don’t care if he “hauled” down 1 or 2 – it’s not acceptable.
It’s absolutely fair to rip him – why? Against a weak team like the Clippers we can come back despite this lack of effort on the boards.
What happened in the 2nd? Amir Johnson “corrected” the situation and offset Bargs’ poor performance. Six rebounds in the QUARTER.
I’m happy with the win, but if Bargs’ doesn’t start putting up an effort we’ll be crushed by Denver, Utah, Miami and Orlando. If we get behind by that much to those teams because Bargs’ won’t put in the effort, we won’t have a chance.
So when he hit two big threes late in the game that didnt matter now did it? What would you rather have two clutch threes or four more rebounds?
Sorry I meant to be clear. All that DID matter. BUT we cannot have that type of 1st quarter performance we will not be a second round playoff team.
To your point, do you really want a situation where we HAVE to shoot 45% from beyond the arc to win? Do you think, on most nights, that digging that hole isn’t a big deal and 22 points deficits are fine.
When you win the game, you obviously did a lot right.
Point I attempted to make was that if Bargs’ does not improve – and this game was a poor effort on his part (thank you Amir) we will no better than a 500 team.
I personally would not be satisfied with that. Neither will Bosh.
Hence my criticism of Bargs. Largely because he can get 7-8 boards a game. Its a desire problem and I have a big issue with it.
I absolutely agree with all your points, all I’m saying is the team was tired, this a crappy point in the schedule in terms of travel, so they predictably looked lethargic. Thankfully they got a boost and were able to turn this around, and ecen though he needs to rebound better because we cant always get away with this, I’m willing to look past it because he played strong D and he hit two huge shots.
I don’t buy that they were tired. According to Jay, alot of them are banged up. But tired? The Celtics have boils older than some the Raps and they’re bringing it. There’s really no excuse for not having the energy in my opinion.
Thing with Bargs is there’s no reason we should have to choose between those threes or a few more boards. Fighting for a few more boards shouldn’t impact his offence that much. We should be getting both.
Dude did you even watch the game last night? Bargnani played all the first quater. The clippers managed to shot 75% for the 1st quater. How many rebounds do you expect Bargnani to grab? During this time the clips managed to grab 3 offensive rebounds. One offensive rebound was off a Bargnani block (guess he is supposed to grab the rebound to right?) The other two offensive rebounds happened when Bargnani was at the top of the key helping on D. I agree that Bargnani lacks the necessary anticipation to be a great rebounder. However, it most cases Bargnani does well to block out his man, thus, enabling other raptors to grab rebounds. Moreover, Bargnani’s D on Kaman was pretty good. He fought for position and many of Kaman’s shots were contested. If you look at the shot chart for Kaman, all of his shots except for two (both misses) were from outside the key. Too many people on this site rely on stats to praise/critique player performances without realizing the antecedent factors that led to these stats. The fact of the matter is that the Clippers front court shot the lights during the first quarter going 11 for 11. But ofcourse this is all Bargnani’s fault right? Because he did not grab a rebound? Watch the game, not the stats!!!!
Andrea Bargnani played more than the 1st quarter. LA shot a lot worst as the game went on.
He had TWO rebounds in 33 min of play. Against the very same team – Amir Johnson had 6 rebounds in something like 12 min. Go figure.
He had more turnovers than rebounds.
Jose Calderon had more rebounds.
If he’s not a better defensive and offensive rebounder then we will not make it to the second round.
Kaman scored 9 against him.
Q: Do you think Bargs’ night in and night out hustles and has a desire to haul down rebounds?
Note that Amir had 7 total in 19 min. I was talking about his stretch in the 2nd qtr.
was bargnani drafted with the expectation of being a 10 rpg player? he was a light rebounding player from day one and he is still a light rebounding player. its something that should get better, but you dont have him on the floor for his rebounding. the only other comparable center to him in the nba is okur and utah is playing kirilenko at the 3 to make up for the lack of rebounding from the 5 position.
i think we can agree that bargnani is a dynamic scorer from the 5, something thats hard to come by, so we should be starting a guy at the 3 that makes up for his lack of rebounding. ideally maybe a player like anthony randolph from the warriors, not that its hedo’s fault but i think hes just the odd man out in this equation if we want to be a legit contending team
Brothersteve you should have wroye the post. It sounds like you watched the game and know something about basketball. You are accurate once again and AltRaps should stick to eating cheesies
two words
Jose. Calderon.
Great 2nd half effort by all again. We need to start better and put a full game together. We want Reggie!
Under the bus: DeRozan. lol
I think this would forshadows DeRozan’s career. He only had that basic lay-up in his 11 minute of playing time.
I don’t get the humour behind that ‘damaged goods’ on Turkoglu. What is that mean? Am I dumb enough not to understand it? Turk did exceptionally well tonight and I understand that his hip is bothering him. I give him props for making the trip and play instead of whining not to play.
Yes of course, I totally see you’re point about how 1 game is going to define a players entire career, you are so smart (is smart the right word?)
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Kamen looked great. There was a graphic of top ft shooters this season. 5 of the top 6 were from the 2003 draft. Kamen, Heinrich, Ford, David West, Josh Howard, Diaw, plus four of the top five players in basketball.
THAT WAS A HECK OF A DRAFT YEAR
That win makes me really happy. We need it.
Heck of a game and there were moments where I just turned off the tube when things looked ridiculously bad. Glad we got the win, but this type of play needs to stop because going down 20 pts to 0.500+ teams are an instant loss.
What’s interesting is that for each of these last two games, BOTH Raptors’ opponents shot surprisingly poorly in the last quarter. Bulls stunk in their last quarter against the Raps and last night, Clippers missed their final 11 shots; they didn’t SCORE in the final 6:58 of the game!
Coincidence? Can’t be likely. The Raptors seem to have another level when they get a bit riled and then they can really shut ‘em down. And they’re probably just discovering it as we see them doing it. Has to be a good sign. Go Raps!
Yeah you guys are real harsh today.
Sure it was the clips…. but the Raps came back from 22 pts to win by 15. No small feat…. even against the clips.
the fact that a well-rested raps team found themselves down +20 in the 2nd f’n quarter against a team missing two of it’s key pieces (actually, you could argue that gordon & griffen are their two best players) is pretty pathetic. i’m as juiced as anyone about the win, but the fact they had to make such a comeback is troubling in the first place – it’s a trend that’s continued for the last few seasons, where they play down to the level of their competition. it’s not something a team with serious playoff aspirations makes a habit of. it was nice to see them turn around their defensive effort in the 2nd half, but all that tells me is that they have the talent to be effective on that end, but not the desire/committment. or, that they know they have to collectively ’save’ themselves for making a defensive stand until it ‘matters’ – essentially, they coast on D for the first half, then turn it on late, knowing they have the fire-power offensively to stay in most games. works against teams limited offensively (bulls, NO, clips)…not so well against teams that know how to spread the offensive, move the ball & make shots.
i’m a little worried about bargs – he seems to be settling into a specialist role (i.e. long distance gunner). a 7-foot steve novak, if you will. it’s doubly worrisome because we all KNOW he has the ability to expand his game on both ends, yet seems reluctant to step outside his comfort zone (which, at the moment, resides 24-feet from the hoop). pretty decent low-post D if you discount the rebounds, but since defensive rebounding is an integral part of overall defense, i’m not sure it should be brushed off just ’cause they won. put it this way – this team is going nowhere if bargs continues to put up 19/2 games. it’s great that he’s been hitting big shots late, but again, that’s kind of the role of a specialist, rather than an all-around player.
yeah no kidding, and considering there crappy schedule, they must have been tired, great effort.
You guys are starting to act like Scott Carefoot…constant criticism for the sake of criticizing and frankly its getting old.
agreed. I guess Bargs hitting two big shots late in the game weren’t important.
Calderon song
I think this one is far more appropriate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cAtKZ2Kcg
hahaha raps would have a tough time beating a wnba team. and would def lose to a decent D league squad. HATE HATE HATE
Johnson started the season looking bad. Now he’s contributing each time out. Maybe he can play. But whoever thought he grew 2″ to 6′ 11″ should check again.>>
In shoes he is probably somewhere around 6′10 +
Camby like Sheed won’t admit to it but both are at least 7 feet tall. Camby is also long but my guess is that he is about 7′2 in shoes. Kaman is a legit 7 feet.
A lot of diaper wearing crying babies on this site… it’s a shame.
“WAAAAAAAAAAAA.. Mommy, he’s criticizing my Raptors! Can we call Dr.Phil?.. I need to talk it out”
Alt, good stuff as always. “Pimpin ain’t easy” LOL!
that was a poor attempt at trying to be funny.
It will be interesting to see whose Minutes Evans takes when he returns.
First up would Rasho’s
Second up would be Johnson’s
Most likely if Johnson’s minutes are cut his game will tank with it.
He has neve reacted well to having his minutes taken away. He says the right thing but his effort and results drop off significantly.
Having followed Johnson’s career since the Pistons drafted him I can say that his play so far fits his historical patter; starting slow and then improving as he plays more games.
In 2007-08 he was playing really well and I mean really well after Saunders inserted him into the rotation. The Pistons went on a major run. Just a coincidence? In any case, once the Pistons signed Ratliff and Saunders started to take minutes away from Johnson his game went to sheet.
Last season Johnson started the season as a starter. He as did all the Pistons then had a difficult time adjusting to Iverson. Eventually Johnson was removed as starter and became a rotational reserve. Then Curry put Johnson back into the starting lineup for a number of games and then Curry removed him again as a starter and made him once more part of the rotational reserves. By this time Curry had so messed up Johnson’s head with his Curry’s constant ragging on him that Johnson’s game totally went to sheet and he finished the year on the bench.
I don’t know how things will go in the future for him with the Raptors once Evans returns. However, Triano has done two very positive things with Johnson that Saunders and Curry never did.
1. Triano is playing him as a regular bench rotational player in the 4th quarter. This is certainly going to boost a young player’s self confidence. Saunders and Curry hardly ever played him in the 4th quarter except in blow outs. Johnson so far has not diappointed.
2. Triano has let Johnson play his regular rotation minues no matter who the opposition is on the court. Saunders and Curry would never have left Johnson out there in the 4th qauarter with Kaman and Camby on the court.
So we shall see what happens once Evans returns. This decision might be influenced on how Johnson continues to play and contribute between now and then.
P.S. I hade to laugh when Johnson successfully posted up, I believe it wsa Baron Davis and did a spin move around him for a layup. This is the first time I have seen him make that play successfully. In the past when he has tried it he has invaribly turned the ball over by either committing an offensive foul or just plain josing the ball.
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A nice come from behind win by the Raptors on the road against a team missing two, Gordon and Griffin, of its three best players.
Bargs is maddenly an enigma, but an enigma that is constant.
The guy is averaging almost 20 a game, with a 51% field goal percentage and 47% from 3 and 6 bounds.
But we know his D pretty much sucks and he cant rebound.
Yet in the last two games he made arguably the biggest D plays, the steal against the bulls and the block against Kaman in the 4th.
He has had like 3 boards in the first 3 minutes of a game, 4 in the first quarter, 5 in the first quarter and yet ended up with one or two more in those games.
He has alternatively been great to start games with 2 to 4 quick baskets yet then dissapears until the 2nd half.
But in most 2nd halfs he has been great. In every 4th quarter he is given the ball he is clutch, yet he is always the last option never demanding the ball.
In the end, he may just be who he is, a talented offensive player who can take shots in the 4th if set up, but one who drifts in and out of the game, with no rebounding hunger.
I think the reason why he may drift offensively is because after he hits a few shots, his teammates stop finding him on O. Look at last night, he completely destroys Kaman on back to back drives, yet he never got a touch for the rest of the quarter. Thye need to do a better job of getting him the ball when there is an obvious mismatch.
I totally agree here. This has happened on many nights… Bargs starts getting hot and the rest of the team doesn’t go to him. Bargs burned Kaman twice… give him the ball and let him continue to do it.
Way too often does Bargs nail two or three shots and then everyone else but him shoots.
That’s the storyline almost every time Bargnani plays. He scores a couple of great hoops then Jose overlooks him over and over for Bosh or himself. The Jose Jack together thing sucks bigtime and Wright needs to play defense, stop shooting or sit the bench. He’s a horrible shooter.The team needs to get Bargs consistent looks and if they do not he cannot get into the rhythm. He goes 8 to ten minutes at a time getting overlooked and without the ball then they expect him to cover up for Jose on defense
This whole “teammates overlook him” thing is an excuse. The problem is that Bargnani hits a couple of shots and then doesn’t work hard enough to get in scoring position again. The biggest problem with Bargnani is that he needs his teammates to set him up, so if they don’t create for him, then there’s not really much he’ll do to score. So far this season, 76% of his shots are off assists, which is incredibly high for a guy who scores as much as he does. That’s why he goes through such long scoring droughts. It’s not his teammates, it’s him. If you notice, when he’s scoring, guys are usually driving to the hoop and drawing defenders, or the team is running and defenders are scrambling.
When the opponents are preventing drives and open looks, Bosh can still create and usually gets either a basket or a foul. Bargnani can’t do that. He’s not comfortable simply isolating his defender, because he doesn’t create well enough off the dribble and doesn’t get good enough position in the post for a good pass, which brings up another issue with Bargnani which I’ve noticed recently. He doesn’t have great hands. He bobbles a lot of passes and it might be why he doesn’t get many rebounds.
Andrea is a good man defender. He was abused by Kaman early and late kept Kaman out of the paint, forcing tougher, contested shots. Kaman abused Bosh early too. Andrea’s lack of defensive awareness and inability to rotate was not really an issue in this game, except maybe in the first quarter when Baron Davis was looking dominant.
I don’t get why he can jump to grab boards some games and not others. On offence he and Bosh had nice chemistry in the high-low game. The Bosh feed to a cutting Andrea was impressive.
Kaman made 4 baskets in the 1Q when Bargnani was on the floor – two of which were tough fade aways and one of which was a tip in of a baron davis shot that bargnani either blocked or altered – no help from his teammates in picking up his man. So 1 of 4 baskets could be attributed to poor defense.
Does anybody realize that Kaman has been lighting it up this year…and not just against Bargnani.
Why do we always focus on the negative? Sure Bargnani had a poor rebounding niht, but he also hit 2 big threes late in the game that turned a 4 point lead into a 10 point margin and essentially broke the spirits of the Clippers. The rebounding is a concern, but ask yourself what would have been more important, 4 more defensive rebounds or 2 big threes in crunch time. Funny how easily we forget that.
John says: “Why do we always focus on the negative?”
John .. it’s because the good things take care of themselves and it’s the bad things that deserve discussion and resolution.
If you just want to wallow in the goodness of the ‘win’, you should find another forum filled with tribal honking fans who blossom when their beloved team wins wins wins … you know … just like lil’ kids …LOL
FAQ , we may want the Raptors to win ,win ,win.. You want the Raptors to lose , lose , lose so that your predictions ,3 wins out of 20 or something like that are not too far off.
Exactly what are we going to resolve on this forum FAQ…are you part of the coaching staff…i didn’t think so…still full of shite…so obvious.
The reason we focus on the negative is because it’s a problem that will always have a negative effect on the team. And I didn’t realize it was a choice between rebounds and shots. Bargnani is talented enough to do both. Besides, if those four defensive rebounds kept the Clippers from scoring on putbacks, then Bargnani wouldn’t NEED to have 2 big threes in crunch time. Remember that.
Yes we get that some dislike Barg with a passion and it really gets old. He played bad D the first quarter, however was very good the second half. He was not given touches after he blew by Kaman the first quarter, and felt he had to rush some shots on his next three misses.
Didn’t see him lose rebounds either, they just weren’t there for him….. Come the second half it was him, Belinelli and Calderon running the offensive side of the floor and actually if you are a hater, I’d say it was Bosh who disappeared the fourth quarter missing all his shots short, though getting his rebounds.
The thing that stood out was they rallied from a 22 point deficit and won going away. That seems to be forgotten sometimes….
I would like to see Bargnani get more rebounds however things aren’t always as black and white as many of you seem to believe – I am concerned when the team isn’t getting rebounds when he is on the floor – which wasn’t the case last night – the raps did a good job on the boards when he was on the floor. On the flip side, even though he records decent rebound totals the raps as a team tend to give up offensive boards when johnson is on the floor (e.g. – though it didn’t hurt them, he gave an offensive rebound in the 4Q on a missed free throw). The raps went off the rails in the first half when bargnnai went to the bench and rasho came in.
A couple of other things
- why didn’t the raptors continue running isolation plays for bargnani to take kaman off the dribble after he torched him twice early in the first half (kind of like the san antonio game where he schooled jefferson three times in the post in the 1Q then that stopped)
- it drives me crazy when Antoine Wright doesn’t give the ball to Bargnani when he is open, instead looking to force his own offense
Seeing Antoine Wright take any shot other than an open 3 from the corner or an uncontested layup makes me cringe. We have 3 incredibly efficient starters who frequently share the floor with Wright… it would be great to see him defer more on offence and look to spark the offensive games of the more skilled players. Lack of maturity on his part. I’d still prefer to see him start over DeRozan. I don’t like how putting Wright out with the 2nd unit gives him shots at DeRozan’s expense.
Over the first 8 games,
Bargnani has been a net positive player for the raptors according to 82 games.com this year. It appears that the defense is slightly BETTER with Bargs in the game and the offense is significantly worse.
I hope that this trend continues, but just given his history, I think that when it is all said and done, he will likely be neutral-to-small positive player as I think that the team defense will do better without him on the floor than they are doing now. I also think the team’s offense will also do better that they are doing now when he isn’t on the floor.
Despite my views, from 82games.com, it appears that Bargnani is helping the team. Calderon however, has been worth -5.3 points/48 minutes so far. Wright has been worth -1.1 points/48 minutes as though the defense improves with him out there, the offense takes a significant hit. That’s probably partly due to his own, Humphries-like shot selection. Unlike Humphries however, Wright has no offensive game and should cease-and-desist what he is doing offensively.
While the +/- rating is interesting, you certainly can’t judge a player solely on it. Plus, Calderon wasn’t playing well the first half (or more), of the season, and I think even he would admit he hurt the team a bit. He’s certainly not doing it now, is he?
Agreed……
I’m pretty sure Calderon will be a positive (probably 2nd positive after Bosh) player when it is all said and done. The point of my post was to indicate that Bargnani has been good thus far, and we should look elsewhere for the weakness.
“…Teammates Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani recently have made public declarations of their belief that Bosh loves Toronto as a city and doesn’t want to leave, which meshes with everything I’ve heard in the past week. The distinct feeling I was left with is that Bosh wants to be the undisputed star on his team and wants to play in a happening metropolis he enjoys. The Raptors and Toronto can make those things happen.”
“…So I believe the fresh guidance I’ve been given, which suggests Toronto — as we stand some 230 days away from free agency — is Bosh’s most likely destination for the 2010-11 season and beyond.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091114-15
I get the part that Bargnani doesn’t rebound well, but without him – the Raps likely don’t win as easily as they did.
Down the stretch Andrea was the most clutch guy on the floor. He nailed a pair of dagger three balls and completely shut down Kaman on defence.
I dont mind the critisism or the (attempted) humour. What I hate in these posts is that they dont reflect the game at all. You seem to find some way of putting down the guys you dont like (like AB, Jose and Marco) every time. Even if they played a great game. On the opposite side the guys you like (e.g. Bosh, Wright) never get critisised for anything.
And having those semi-funny comments on guys that dont play is getting really old. I bet you can find 82 ways of mocking Banks during the season, but it has nothing to do with the games.
2 rebounds by Bargs was not a great statline, but it wasnt what hurt us. I dont remember us getting killed by second chance points in the first (we got killed by bad offense and worse defense). And in the end we didnt lose the rebounding by much. Of course it would be nice to see AB get more rebounds, but it was more important to see him fly by Kaman a couple of times and hit some important treys.
This was an important win. Sure it wasnt a complete effort from start to begining, but I think we are going to see a lot of that. I still like the fact that we seem to be able to grind out wins in the fourth. Actually we have been pretty damn good in the fourth against lesser teams. This is a big change from last years.
Oh and that remark on Jose for his “delayed-reaction”? For god sake he had to be stiched up. It might look weird in the replay, but Im pretty sure the contact hurt a bit. And what did the clapping have to do with the game?
Yep Jose got hit after the shot…. Telfair threw his arm out after he released and hit Jose. I think the blood dripping down the side of his head should be indication enough it was a hard hit.
Jose went down immediately… not sure where the ‘delay’ was. Now did he act it up a bit, yes. But its not like he asked for a wheelchair…
I have to disagree with you on AB’s lack of rebounding not killing us comment. Yes,maybe it was not the 2nd chanse point, but it was his inability to box out his man that has led to so many dunks.
I have no problem with him not being able to rebound. He may not be able to physically jump as high as next guy or be quick in his jumps. My problem is with his lack of effort ( none what so ever) to position himself between his man and the basket, box out his man under the basket.
O’Bryant – Triano pointed to him tonight, but that was just to ask who he was. That line cracked me up
C’mon, there’s no negativity here, everyone’s a Rap fanatic! It just a technique to keep you engaged and commenting and maintain a good traffic.
So with the first quarter lesson in LA, I looking forward to Raps 1st quarter show against the Suns.
Good to see some people on here that actually watch/understand BBall and don’t just look at Barg’s boxscores, see less than 5 boards, and proclaim him a bust! Was this his best game, or even one of his better games? absolutely not. But consider the fact that he scored 19 points with his teammates barely looking for him/running plays for him. I’m sure if they put Bargs on Amare when they play the Suns and Amare scores 20 points and grabs 12 boards, people will say how he abused Bargs…completely forgetting the fact that Amare has pretty much averaged those numbers nightly for the last 4 years!
Not to dismiss AB poor rebounding but the fact that he doesn’t go after the easy ones hurts his numbers more than the team. There were 2 times in this game where the Clips missed a FT and Bosh came across the lane to AB’s side to grab the miss. Maybe the point is Bosh wants it he doesn’t but he boxed out ok and challenged a lot of shots. Not exusing the fact he had 1 board but he affected the game on D more than the numbers tell. Kaman hit some tough turnarounds AB was right there on.
I remember this exact incident, when someone missed a free throw and Bosh got the rebound instead of Bargnani. Yes, you could say that he could have gotten that, which would have helped his stats, but I think it points to the main difference between the two. Bosh WANTS rebounds, Bargnani doesn’t. It’s their mindset and why Bargnani doesn’t get rebounds. And while you can say he boxes out (which is not exactly true, because he doesn’t do that well, either), but there are to parts to boxing out well. The first is sealing your opponent, the other is getting the ball. If you simply seal your opponent, you’re giving others a chance to get the rebound, including other opponents. And that’s what often happens when Bargnani is on the court.
I’m not new but I did disappear over the summer. I really like Bosh and hope this team keeps him because I think he’s a terrific all around basketball player. But Bargnani was never drafted to be a big rebounder. He was drafted for exactly what he’s giving them and he will get better. His stats if that’s what is important to some are amazing for a big man in everything but rebounding where so far he’s averaging around 6. At best the way he plays he’ll average around 7 and I definitely think he needs to chase rebounds better on the defensive glass. He was taken to compliment Bosh’s inside game. Bosh will always be a better rebounder, but I’m convinced Bargnani is and will be a better pure scorer and passer. They can compliment each other beautifully if the coaches make the ball move around like it should. There is not another big man in the league that can move like Bargnani with all the talent he has inside and out, but he needs to be a regular part of the offense. He will also get better and better.
And just like Bargs, Jose, Hedo, and many superstars have their horrible moments Bosh has had his share.
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