Comments on: Morning Coffee – Nov 10 http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/ The Penultimate Toronto Raptors Fan Website Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:52:52 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: David Moro http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45535 David Moro Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:12:38 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45535 Bulls can't score, We can't defend. It's too bad there isn't a trade there to be had (especially considering we are such close rivals in terms of conference). I hate to say this, but it's time to trade Calderon and Bargs--now. I love both of them, but they can't defend to save thier life and mine is being shortened with their approach to d. Bargs is no scrub but bosh isn't "rough and tumble" enough to make up for what he lacks. Caldy is great but Bargs ain't a great shotblocker either. Caldy and Bargs + Banks (salary filler) for captain jack and Ellis and Turiaf. We go somewhat small (depending on matchups) with something like: Turiaf/Rasho Bosh/Evans/Turiaf Turkoglu/Wright/Derozan jackson/Bellinelli or Derozan Ellis/Jack Now THAT's a team that can run, has very few pussies, can rebound (althought still not great defensively, can do it in the clutch) and won't get taken off the dribble as easily, so it's defending won't really need to be nearly as good. Sounds like a great fit for both teams. The problem of course being, you run the risk of taking on a guy in Captain jack who has a history, and if it doesn't work out, Bosh is gone and then you're left with only Ellis and Derozan and whatever you can get for Bosh as your building blocks. Plus, you're stuck with two medium to bad contracts for a long time in Turkeyglue and Captain Jack...although they aren't horrible pieces. It's not bad... I'd do it just to see us fight like mad dogs every night. Anyone else in? Bulls can’t score, We can’t defend. It’s too bad there isn’t a trade there to be had (especially considering we are such close rivals in terms of conference).

I hate to say this, but it’s time to trade Calderon and Bargs–now. I love both of them, but they can’t defend to save thier life and mine is being shortened with their approach to d.

Bargs is no scrub but bosh isn’t “rough and tumble” enough to make up for what he lacks. Caldy is great but Bargs ain’t a great shotblocker either.

Caldy and Bargs + Banks (salary filler) for captain jack and Ellis and Turiaf.

We go somewhat small (depending on matchups) with something like:

Turiaf/Rasho
Bosh/Evans/Turiaf
Turkoglu/Wright/Derozan
jackson/Bellinelli or Derozan
Ellis/Jack

Now THAT’s a team that can run, has very few pussies, can rebound (althought still not great defensively, can do it in the clutch) and won’t get taken off the dribble as easily, so it’s defending won’t really need to be nearly as good.

Sounds like a great fit for both teams. The problem of course being, you run the risk of taking on a guy in Captain jack who has a history, and if it doesn’t work out, Bosh is gone and then you’re left with only Ellis and Derozan and whatever you can get for Bosh as your building blocks. Plus, you’re stuck with two medium to bad contracts for a long time in Turkeyglue and Captain Jack…although they aren’t horrible pieces.

It’s not bad… I’d do it just to see us fight like mad dogs every night.

Anyone else in?

]]> By: brothersteve http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45530 brothersteve Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:38:52 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45530 If Raps (or any team) hits their 3s vs the Bulls, it will likely be a blow out. Bulls looked like a wall every time Denver tried to go inside. Noah's help defense was awesome to watch. No one on the Bulls is afraid to foul someone on a drive - put a lot of pressure on the officials. Noah v Bosh inside should be a great match up. If Raps (or any team) hits their 3s vs the Bulls, it will likely be a blow out.

Bulls looked like a wall every time Denver tried to go inside. Noah’s help defense was awesome to watch. No one on the Bulls is afraid to foul someone on a drive – put a lot of pressure on the officials.

Noah v Bosh inside should be a great match up.

]]> By: brothersteve http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45528 brothersteve Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:35:03 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45528 Someone should ask the Bulls if offense is easy? 88.5 points per game, just lost to Denver 90-89 because they couldn't score! Bulls played great defense to stay in it but, so what? How many games is it reasonable to expect to win over a season if you can only score 93 (season high) against Charlotte? (Probably similar to what the Raps will if their defense doesn't improve) Someone should ask the Bulls if offense is easy?

88.5 points per game, just lost to Denver 90-89 because they couldn’t score!

Bulls played great defense to stay in it but, so what? How many games is it reasonable to expect to win over a season if you can only score 93 (season high) against Charlotte? (Probably similar to what the Raps will if their defense doesn’t improve)

]]> By: verbatim http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45526 verbatim Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:41:05 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45526 Entertaining game by the way, between Denver and the Bulls. Entertaining game by the way, between Denver and the Bulls.

]]> By: verbatim http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45525 verbatim Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:39:49 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45525 Wow, how can we compete with the Bulls this year? Their big men bang on the boards. They aren't the most talented big men, but they are a gritty team, who plays good D. Deng is a real defensive stopper. They are kind of like the anti-raps. Rose just weaves his way in and out like air. His movement on the court reminds me of Wade. I dread watching him cut through our defence like a hot knife through butter. Come on Raps, play some D, and stop overhelping when it isn't necessary! Wow, how can we compete with the Bulls this year? Their big men bang on the boards. They aren’t the most talented big men, but they are a gritty team, who plays good D. Deng is a real defensive stopper. They are kind of like the anti-raps. Rose just weaves his way in and out like air. His movement on the court reminds me of Wade. I dread watching him cut through our defence like a hot knife through butter.

Come on Raps, play some D, and stop overhelping when it isn’t necessary!

]]> By: Marc http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45521 Marc Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:09:44 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45521 We'd still find a way to lose to the Grizz We’d still find a way to lose to the Grizz

]]> By: @Liston http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45520 @Liston Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:08:08 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45520 The 5 man unit data probably shouldn't be used at this early stage - some of the combinations have VERY limited min. The 5 man unit data probably shouldn’t be used at this early stage – some of the combinations have VERY limited min.

]]> By: iggy poops http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45515 iggy poops Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:10:46 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45515 You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat. — Roger Kahn You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat.
— Roger Kahn

]]> By: J http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45513 J Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:40:15 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45513 It'd help if you provided context. I don't know how recent that data is, but the so-called top 5-man unit of Calderon-Jack-Wright-Johnson-Bosh have played 6.2 minutes together according to the site. The #2 lineup are just double that at 13.1 minutes. Can you really judge the effectiveness of a lineup based on 6 and 13 minutes worth of play? The starting unit of Calderon-DeRozan-Turkoglu-Bosh-Bargnani come in at 4-3 (57.1 win%) and have played 89.1 minutes together. That means a lot more than a 6 minute run. And the on court production is a bit different from what you posted: Bargnani 9.8 Bosh 9.7 Johnson and Belinelli 2.9 DeRozan 2.6 Maybe they updated the stats? It’d help if you provided context. I don’t know how recent that data is, but the so-called top 5-man unit of Calderon-Jack-Wright-Johnson-Bosh have played 6.2 minutes together according to the site. The #2 lineup are just double that at 13.1 minutes. Can you really judge the effectiveness of a lineup based on 6 and 13 minutes worth of play? The starting unit of Calderon-DeRozan-Turkoglu-Bosh-Bargnani come in at 4-3 (57.1 win%) and have played 89.1 minutes together. That means a lot more than a 6 minute run.

And the on court production is a bit different from what you posted:

Bargnani 9.8
Bosh 9.7
Johnson and Belinelli 2.9
DeRozan 2.6

Maybe they updated the stats?

]]> By: Brain Colangelo http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45512 Brain Colangelo Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:38:55 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45512 In the real world, people who "job hop" sometimes get punished. The Lebrons of the business world get to "job hop" all they want. In the real world, people who “job hop” sometimes get punished. The Lebrons of the business world get to “job hop” all they want.

]]> By: Brain Colangelo http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45509 Brain Colangelo Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:36:27 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45509 As Andrea goes, so go the Raps. He's a lethal offensive player and when his rebounding and help D is even average we will usually win. As Andrea goes, so go the Raps. He’s a lethal offensive player and when his rebounding and help D is even average we will usually win.

]]> By: J http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45507 J Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:25:10 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45507 Not an antitrust issue at all. Not an antitrust issue at all.

]]> By: J http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45506 J Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:23:51 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45506 Agreed. If LBJ hinted at being willing to take less money in order to win, it doesn't mean a drastic reduction. It simply means signing with a new team, since that new team can only offer a 5 year deal with 8.5% raises. It's way too early in LBJ's career to take a paycut. Agreed. If LBJ hinted at being willing to take less money in order to win, it doesn’t mean a drastic reduction. It simply means signing with a new team, since that new team can only offer a 5 year deal with 8.5% raises. It’s way too early in LBJ’s career to take a paycut.

]]> By: verbatim http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45497 verbatim Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:31:14 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45497 It is a very nice dream though, isn't it? It is a very nice dream though, isn’t it?

]]> By: Bob http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45495 Bob Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:13:21 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45495 Bring in Wade to Toronto and I say we win the title and are contenders for the next 5 years. He's the missing piece in all this. Calderon/Jack Wade/Demar Turk/Wright Bosh/Evans Bargs/Amir/Rasho 4 elite scorers (that offer different things) complemented with a pass-first PG. Nice :) I'm day dreaming.... Bring in Wade to Toronto and I say we win the title and are contenders for the next 5 years. He’s the missing piece in all this.

Calderon/Jack
Wade/Demar
Turk/Wright
Bosh/Evans
Bargs/Amir/Rasho

4 elite scorers (that offer different things) complemented with a pass-first PG. Nice :)

I’m day dreaming….

]]> By: Jhigh http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45489 Jhigh Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:13:46 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45489 Jordan and Pippin won 6 titles 91-93, 96-98); Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles (2000-2002); Duncan, Ginobli, and parker have won 3 titles (2003, 2005, and 2007) and you can argue they weren't even a big three for the first title (really more a Robinson - Duncan big two). Jordan and Pippin won 6 titles 91-93, 96-98); Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles (2000-2002); Duncan, Ginobli, and parker have won 3 titles (2003, 2005, and 2007) and you can argue they weren’t even a big three for the first title (really more a Robinson – Duncan big two).

]]> By: Buddahfan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45483 Buddahfan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:02:50 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45483 Pippen and Jordan I believe won 3 titles Kobe and Pau have a good shot at a second just Garnett, Pierce and Allen do. Parker, Duncan and Manu have I believe 4 titles. At his point onnly Shaq and Kobe and Shaq and Wade will definitely be limited to one titles. In any case one title is better than none. The Pistons without superstars but 5 all star players in Billups, Sheed, Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Prince only won one title. I doubt that we will ever seen any more dynasties in the NBA like the old Celtics, Lakers Show Time, Michael and Pippen and the Spurs. The Pistons got to the ECF finals 6 years running and yet got only one title out of it. It is very difficult today today to build a dynasty. Pippen and Jordan I believe won 3 titles

Kobe and Pau have a good shot at a second just Garnett, Pierce and Allen do.

Parker, Duncan and Manu have I believe 4 titles.

At his point onnly Shaq and Kobe and Shaq and Wade will definitely be limited to one titles.

In any case one title is better than none.

The Pistons without superstars but 5 all star players in Billups, Sheed, Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Prince only won one title.

I doubt that we will ever seen any more dynasties in the NBA like the old Celtics, Lakers Show Time, Michael and Pippen and the Spurs.

The Pistons got to the ECF finals 6 years running and yet got only one title out of it.

It is very difficult today today to build a dynasty.

]]> By: @RapsFan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45481 @RapsFan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:45:26 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45481 There's nothing anti-trust about this though. People get together and join new companies all the time. Like I said; if this is done when everyone is a free agent, and it doesn't compromise their play during their current contract, nothing wrong with it. Tom Liston is right, it is refreshing. There’s nothing anti-trust about this though. People get together and join new companies all the time. Like I said; if this is done when everyone is a free agent, and it doesn’t compromise their play during their current contract, nothing wrong with it. Tom Liston is right, it is refreshing.

]]> By: dsr http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45478 dsr Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:54:31 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45478 That's why you build teams like the Spurs or Pistons...no superstars with big egos. Just a lot of great talent working together for one goal...a championship ring. That’s why you build teams like the Spurs or Pistons…no superstars with big egos. Just a lot of great talent working together for one goal…a championship ring.

]]> By: Buddahfan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/11/10/morning-coffee-nov-10/#comment-45473 Buddahfan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:18:08 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=12213#comment-45473 My first Roland Ratings (my favorite NBA stats site) post this season On court production for the Raptors 1st Bargnani + 7.9 2nd Bosh + 7.7 3rd tie Johsnon and Belinelli + 2.9 Best 5 man units Calderon-Jack-Wright-Johnson-Bosh 3 - 0 Jack-Belinelli-Wright-Johnson-Bargnani 2 - 1 Notice neither of the top two have both Bosh and Bargnani The 3 playes in both units are Jack-Wright and Johnson paired either with Bosh and Calderon or Bargnani and Belinelli http://www.82games.com/0910/0910TOR.HTM My first Roland Ratings (my favorite NBA stats site) post this season

On court production for the Raptors

1st Bargnani + 7.9
2nd Bosh + 7.7
3rd tie Johsnon and Belinelli + 2.9

Best 5 man units

Calderon-Jack-Wright-Johnson-Bosh 3 – 0
Jack-Belinelli-Wright-Johnson-Bargnani 2 – 1

Notice neither of the top two have both Bosh and Bargnani

The 3 playes in both units are Jack-Wright and Johnson paired either with Bosh and Calderon or Bargnani and Belinelli

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910TOR.HTM

]]>