They started it…
Bosh: 7 Kept that offense chugging along with his 20 FT attempts. Hardly a fluid or dominant performance but got his nose dirty and didn’t let his head hang when he got beat on defense. His play slowed this game down and allowed the Raps to catch their breath.
Bargnani: 8 Caught wind of the A-Dub hate and showed the pussy up with 12 rebounds, that’s to go with 22 points. Hit 4 big fourth quarter FTs, had 2 huge blocks which easily saved 4 points, and faked Charlie V out of his pants for a big jumper late. Defensively solid all night long and that was hard to do because the backcourt was porous. Take a bow son, take a bow.
Calderon: 3 It’s good to have guaranteed minutes. Stuckey lit him up early, Bynum lit him up late. You have to wonder just what he was doing on the floor with Jack in that fourth quarter. The corner three he conceded to Bynum in the fourth said it all about the way he thinks on defense – he doesn’t. Even Jack Armstrong said it, “Jose’s not right”. Thanks for that late three, though. Had one assist which was good because it meant he wasn’t handling the rock.
DeRozan: 3 Early baseline cut for a dunk but that was it. Couldn’t negotiate the screens set for his check (Gordon) and Triano once again didn’t bother using him for anything other than standing at the wing and waiting. For something. Got benched in favor of Wright after Gordon exploded early. There’ll be days like this…
Turkoglu: 8 Finally, we see what the Sultan of Turk can do when you give him the ball. 16/7/6. He should’ve had about 5 more assists if Belinelli or Jack could shoot as advertised. This guy should be our primary ball handler. No question about it, otherwise it’s a total waste. Move Calderon to off-guard on the condition that he doesn’t get burned and can knock down an open J. Hedo, find Bargnani and go take a bow..
Da Bench
Jack: 8 Led that second unit which gave this team the offensive spark it needed. Drove the ball every chance he got and made Gordon and Bynum defend. Earned the respect of Oak while doing so. He got torched later in the game by Bynum but overall, a solid performance which made a case for more minutes. If only he could knock that open jumper down, him and Turk could be deadly.
Belinelli: 3 Famine. Gordon’s hesitation shook him worse than an earthquake. Got beat one-on-one too often and didn’t knock down the open threes he was presented. Still finding his role on the team and it’s becoming more and more evident it’s not going to happen on the defensive end.
Johnson: 5 Easily his best game, still gave up too many offensive rebounds but the hustle and energy was there. Even scored a basket. 6/5 in 17 minutes while picking up 4 fouls. Yup, that’s considered a good game for him right now. Hopefully he can build on not screwing up.
Wright: 8 Slowed down Ben Gordon in that second or it was going to be a loooong night, hit two big threes set-up by Hedo which got the crowd and the Raptors back in it. If Jack was the offensive spark, he was the defensive one. He defended CV, Gordon, Bynum and Maxiell at different points in the game.
Collecting da cheque
Evans, Douby, O’Bryant, Weems, Banks, Nesterovic
The Payout
Pimp: Antoine Wright.
Ho: DeMar DeRozan
What we learned: Will Bynum can play.
The Verdict: We’re 2-0 when playing teams on a back-to-back.
163 Raps
You’re bang on with the Hedo point…we’ve been screaming for him to have the ball in his hands and it paid off tonight.
Calderon is playing like a sick dog that needs to be put down, he is in a slump already, WTF. In fact the whole backcourt is in a slump and because none of them can play D they are useless at the moment, give Wright more court time and give Weems a shot.
so many people have mentioned weems.. lol, he’s injured
I wonder if he really is injured or “nba” injured.
Your right. Weems is more than ready to play. He hasn’t missed practices. Is it time to move Douby to “pull a hamstring” so he can get some time? I would be patient with Calderon though. He is a proven player. He shots 50% FG, 40% 3FG and 90 FT%. He hasn’t done that for half a season or during a playoff run. HE HAS DONE IT FOR 2 YEARS! He didn’t forget how to shoot. He will be fine once he gets his legs back.
Not that it matters much, but I think you missed Rasho in the “collecting” category
Poor Andrea , now he will be criticized by A-Dub and Yertu if he doesn’t get at least 8 rebounds every game.
There is no reason Andrea can’t do this every game, its the will to do it he lacks. The talent is there, tantalizing us.
He’s a freaking 7 footer, of course he can!
It has nothing to do with effort as he is effectively boxing out his man, even when his rebounding numbers may not show it. Today was a reward for his hard work, bravo Andrea!
he’s a terrible rebounder and is often too busy leaking out to box out his man which is why you see Bosh surrounded by 3 opponents (they were climbing his back all night, refs were awful) most times. He had a good night, and I think it shows he could average around 8rpg. It’s at least a semi-respectable number. The whole point of boxing out is to put yourself in position to get the rebound while preventing your man from getting it.
Sorry, he had a great night, but people keep trying to gloss over his weakness like it’s not that bad.
And when he will average 8 rebs per game , may be next year , there are people who will still criticize is lack of desire to get more rebounds because as a 7 footer he should get at leat 10 . So the criticism will never end .
Look, as a 7 footer who plays centre he needs to board for this team to be effective. It’s always a problem for perimetre oriented bigs: they use their size advantage for clean looks from 3 but it puts an onus on the wings to pick up the slack which generally isn’t their forte.
Being a fan of Bargs I can see him putting in effort both on the glass (he does tip it out and away from his man quite often)and in the post. But he really needs to commit to being better in these areas consistently. I mean in 35 minutes 8 boards is only an average of 1 board every 4.5 minutes. It’s not asking that much.
When he can do this every single game, and not every other game, then the critics will move on to something less basketball related. For now, since he hasn’t shown that he is capable of bringing “#1 pick/team-cornerstone/insert something else here” consistent numbers, the critics have every right to be out in full force.
How many players average 10 rebounds per game? The Answer 12.
1 Dwight Howard 2 Troy Murphy 3 David Lee 4 Andris Biedrins
5 Marcus Camby 6 Al Jefferson 7 Tim Duncan 8 Carlos Boozer
9 Andrew Bogut 10 Emeka Okafor 11 Zach Randolph 12 Chris Bosh
Do you notice anything else? How about Chris Bosh is on the list. Do you see any teams with 2 players? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Andrea will never average 10 per game. If he could average 6-7 that would be great. Fans always want every player to improve what he doesn’t do well but lets remember what he does really well. SCORE!
great point!!
If a semi-scrub perimeter big-man like Troy Murphy can average 10rpg then a bigger, quicker, stronger, younger player like Andrea should be able to challenge that number. I think we are getting too caught up with fixating a number on that improvement. I dont want him to get 7rpg or 10rpg I want him to continually improve and make sure our TEAM is out-rebounding and therefore has a Posession advantage every night…
Man, you guys are such friggin apologists! I said 8 would be respectable. 12 is his career high over 3 full seasons (+4 games this year).
No one expects him to average 10+. Stop trying to act like this is just bashing Andrea, it’s not. It’s a matter of fact. You can score all you want but unless your Bigs play D and clean the glass you’ll lose more often than not. Last night was a great rebounding night for him but until he puts together a string of decent rebounding games I’ll just view last night as an aberration.
You’ve been reading Doug Smith’s blog too much. Bargnani, in the previous games, has not been effectively boxing out his man. He’s been terrible at letting his man, or the man he’s responsible for, go in and grab the offensive rebound.
And it is a lack of effort. Watch the rebounds he does get. They’re usually to him. Rarely does he actually battle for rebounds. Bosh this year has been a beast battling for quite a few rebounds he would not have gotten in the past. It’s about desire and effort.
Bosh wants that 100 millions + contract , that is where that desire to improve is rebounding stats and possibly his scoring stats come from. On the other end Andrea is looking at a possible All Star selection ,if not this year then next year and he will need to help out the team by catching more rebounds. But would you say that Bosh deserve to earn twice as much as Andrea (based on what Andrea has done in 2009)?.
Hello No! Bosh is playing good so far, but I would worry about giving him max money because of the motivation factor you mentioned.
Is that like when they were talking about Jose being an all-star? Please! Spare me.
Bosh is getting a max contract from someone, either way. I don’t see how improving his scoring and rebounding stats are going to have any effect on whether or not he gets a max contract.
And I don’t think ANYONE “deserves” to make $20 million a season playing basketball, but if you’re asking whether I’d rather pay Bosh $20 million than Bargnani $10 million, I’d go with Bosh. He’s a better scorer, rebounder and defender. When it was crunch time for the Raptors last night, I certainly wasn’t wanting the Raptors to give it to Bargnani to get a basket. Bosh consistently manufactured points for the Raptors when no one else was scoring. It’s been like that for the last 2 or three years, if you hadn’t noticed.
Sure people “deserve” to make $20mill. They provide a product we willingly pay for, NBA level bball. The players generate a ton of cash, enough for the league to turn a pretty healthy profit each year. It’s not like they are getting billions from the tax paying public for being failures. They are an elite group of athletes that we willingly endorse each time we buy a ticket, tune in on cable or post on an NBA related blog.
Josh, I don’t think anyone deserves that much money for playing a game for a living. Yes, they help bring in lots of money, and should get a big piece of the pie, but $20 million for playing basketball? That’s ridiculous. It’s also ridiculous the the price they charge for tickets and the cost of the jerseys and other NBA merchandise. Yes, people buy it all, but it doesn’t make it alright.
Not a sensible argument or rate of comparison but Bosh is definitely worth more.
Take Bosh away from this team and take away Barg’s and you’ll see a WORLD of difference.
Take Barg’s away from this team and they are treading water and fighting with the bottom feeders.
Take Bosh away from this team and they ARE the bottom feeders.
In response to Cesco
Doug Smith, oh now that is a truly funny man. I wonder if he will ever try to put the effort into learning anything about the game of basketball instead of rehearsing and rehashing what he has read on or what the Raps want him to write.
Don’t feed the Trolls
I know the Raptors’ backcourt gets burned every day, every night; on days they should be practicing staying in front of guards, they’re in the ICU from all the burning they experience in games… but, hey, Will Bynum’s really fast. He would’ve eaten up a lot of guys tonight. And Ben Gordon was scoring against Rajon and Ray last postseason.
Not that that’s gonna be any consolation against the Hornets.
I was scared when the game was close in the fourth. They should have played jack, wright, hedo, bish and bargs. We don’t need 3 ballhandlers down the stretch, besides calderon wasn’t droping dimes the whole game, we needed tough defence on both gaurds.
Can I just talk about the awesome over the shoulder pass by Jack for the Bargs dunk for a sec. That caught me so off gaurd it made me choke on haloween candy a little bit. Can anyone say play of the week?!
We can score.
We can’t stop anyoney.
Detriot scored 56 in first half but on the second night of a back to back and shorthanded struggled offensively in the 2nd half.
Jose does not look like:
He can guard his own postion
He is worth 8ish mill a year
That he should be a starter (not to say Jack is a legit starting PG)
It will not be long before the talk becomes Jack starting especially when Jack plays better like he did tonight.
Wright made a few threes but if he never took another one I would not be disapointed.
Andrea at times looks and moves like a robot in a bad way.
But yet 22 12 and 2 blocks I will take any night.
Marco needs to lose the arm warmer it just does not suit him.
Charlie V is the same old Charlie V never know if he will score 30 or 4
Hedo makes good passes in tight spots.
Jack Armstrong called Daye a toothpick and that was pretty funny.
Raptors have a frontcort that score with any team in the NBA
Chris Bosh is playing like a Max player (so far) although I don’t think he is worth it, but if he keeps playing like this maybe.
Leo Rautins bugs as much as khandor
Demar Derozan makes me excited like a Tribal Honking Fan.
GO RAPTORS!!!!
******bugs me*****
the two handed slam …did he look like a robot !!!!never fuckin happy
Can anyone come up with a reason as to why Jose is playing so much? Is Triano letting him play through his funk? Because I’d favour a Jack-Wright backcourt right now over the Jose-Jack back court. Wright’s got an above average handle so it’s not like he can’t hold the rock too, and he plays much better defense.
Jose makes more assists, fewer turnovers, and is a better shooter. I mean, I guess the Raptors need him so they can outscore everybody; even if they started Jack the Raptors would still have trouble getting stops. Or so I see it.
I wouldn’t mind a Calderon-Wright backcourt.
All that Calderon-Jack at the same time, though… well, that’s gotten plenty of burn on RR. It is a bad lineup. Everyone but Triano realizes that Jarrett Jack isn’t a shooting guard.
That would be my guess as to why Triano is giving him a longer leash. By the 10th game, if this kind of production continues, he will be on the bench in a hurry.
the reality is this team will require a competent bargnani game in, game out in order to succeed. it is impossible to compete at an elite level in this league if your #1 draft pick plays mediocre or sub par ball. so far, bargs has had 2 great games and two not so great games, which is why we are 2-2.
what are you talking about?? bargnani had one bad game and i wouldnt even call it that bad. hes not the reason we’re 2 and 2 blame jose or triano. you know nothing!!
He was pretty invisible against both Memphis and Orlando, except for small stretches in each game where scored most of his points. The rest of the time he contributed very little.
Seems these rankings are based on expectations. Has Bosh cracked 8 yet this year? He’s obviously been the best overall player on the team this year and it hasn’t been close. Not that I’m taking them seriously, but still.
I was at the game against Orlando, Bargnani was the player with the most spark in the game for TO. Missed two late three’s (looked like he rushed them) Bosh got his stats but it was noticeable how when he got the ball every other raptor stood still. I think the team was thinking too much about bad officiating at the start of the game, lost focus, fell behind, and couldn’t quite recover.
Point being: Orlando wasn’t Bargnani’s fault, he helped keep them in the game.
No the point is, our success is in the hands of bargnani. Try pointing it out from now on. Whenever, bargnani starts scoring and playing well, our team goes on a run, we either catch up or get ahead by 10 points. Raptors are like an equation, where everything else is constant, and bargnani is the only variable factor. Just look for it in the games that are coming.When bargnani starts scoring, we go on a run… it is confusing. It is like he sparks the team..
When he scores it tends to have an uplifting impact on the team – it has been that way ever since he was a rookie. That’s why I have always looked beyond his obvious rebounding shortcoming.
Scoring 28 points on 15 shots, 26 points on 12 shots, and 22 points on 16 shots, as he has in done so far this season, is extremely high offensive efficiency. Find players to compliment his weaknesses!
Il Mago sometimes a beautiful game. I voted that he’s inconsistent in your poll, but will revise that view if he keeps playing like this.
I liked his rebounding and loved his last block. When he elevated to swat that away I realized that I had never seen him really jump in a shot blocking or rebounding situation.
Iavaroni to Bargnani – “You should jump more. Jumping is very, very good in certain basekbetball situations.”
… sometimes plays a beautiful game…
Bargs blocks actually came when he jump and then spiking it, instead of just standing there and getting his fingertips to it.
ever think that its not a good idea to leave your feet on defence since it leaves you vulnerable? A block is a block, you dont get points for style.
Depends a bit on how your block comes about. His huge block was as a help defender and he wouldn’t have gotten to it w/o jumping. Bargs usually gets his blocks by staying on his feet and using his length to block his man. This jumping thing adds another dimension to his game.
Actually a block is not just a block. Block it outta bounds like he did on the second one and the other team gets the ball back. It’s fun when they spike it into the money seats but it’s much more valuable to block it inbounds or the ever rare but awesome “pick it outta the air” type where the blocker just goes up and pulls it down.
I heard somewhere in the offseason that Bosh was among the league leaders in some kind of “block inbounds” statistic kept of blocks resulting in a favorable change of posession… – the opposite of the classic Dwight Howard “try to give your season ticketholders a concussion” type block…
The Raptors finally executed their fourth quarter offence like i desire them to do. The ball needs to be in Turkoglu’s hands and Bargnani, Bosh or Turks need to be taking the shots or driving and hitting the open man. Bargs proved clutch in that instance mentioned by Arsenlaist when he had two successive blocks and schooled Daye twice to draw the foul and turn a 2 point Raptor lead with three and a half minutes left, into a 6 point lead. Turkoglu further stretched the lead by curling around a screen and hitting a J from the free throw line. Thats almost unstoppable and this is how they should be executing their 4th quarter offence.
Point taken along with the grain of salt that Detroit was on a back to back missing their two best vet players… Still, i would rather see baby-steps than regression…
Hey, imagine once Jose starts playing well. That will be sweet, yo.
Rap of the day right there!
Now imagine the team without Jose! Super sweet, yo!
YES! That’s the Flux I know and love!
Yeah…we’ll trade him for Roko.
Did anyone see that Roko was -15 in 6 minutes for the Buck against the Bulls! minus 15!!! Wow does he suck.
: ) Consistency, baby… unlike, you know.. the Raptors.
Then again, this .500 stuff is pretty consistent Raptor material.
This .500 stuff improves our record from last year by 8 games. Nice!
Mediocrity…. you gotta love it.
bargs needs to post up more! it seems that everytime hes had position something positve has come from it.whether its because its unexpected or hes just more confident it needs to be utilized by triano. love the new runnig hook shot. did it against lebron and now ben wallace!
yeah its really effective, but his teammates need to look at him when he has position and not ignore him. They did a good job of that tonight when he sealed Daye down low late in the game.
who is A-Dub
Obviously, he’s Antoine Wright ;)
Alvin Williams?
Aaron Williams?
Antoine Wright?
Charles Oakley? (Anything’s possible)
Those were my immediate guesses when is saw A-Dub
I’ll give JJ credit for a great game, but his defence on BG was just as bad as Jose’s at the start of the game. Then as was mentioned, Bynum was able to have his way with him too later on. I’ve yet to see any real evidence that JJ is as great a defender as everyone says. I’d probably give him a 7 instead of an 8, but that’s just my opinion. It wasn’t until we put Antoine Wright (just the type of player we’ve needed for some time now) on BG that we were finally able to contain him a little.
And I hope I don’t see DeRozan and Belinelli on the floor at the same time for the rest of the season. We almost let this one get away until they got subbed out in the 4th.
It seems to me that Jack has the mentality to be a good defender (understands spacing, rotations, etc) but lacks the physical attributes to execute. Jose doesn’t really seem to know what to do, nor does he have the ability to make up for it. I put Hedo in the same category as Jack, for the record.
this would be more accurate if Jack or Jose actually covered BG early in the game…..
I really didn’t think that belinelli’s defence was all that bad. The number of open threes he missed; that’s a problem.
Don’t know about that man. Threes were a problem but there were three plays in that first quarter where he looked absolutely terrible. He got shook straight-up on the right baseline, one where Gordon hung him on a screen for a floating bank shot and another hesitation move which started at the right wing. All three led to points and got Jack and Wright off the bench. He was bad.
I am worried that Belinelli is the type of player that needs a volume of shots in order to get into a rhythm. This means he needs more minutes to knock down any shots (Bargnani was the same coming off the bench). This means that if Triano wants to use him properly, he needs more minutes, otherwise he will continue to brick his shots. It is still early in the season, but this may in fact turn out to be the case.
in 07 when tj ford was injured, jose stepped up and showed flashes of being an all star caliber point guard. he shot in the ballpark of .6 .5 and .9 and was recording around 14 assists per game. he cashed in on those few outstanding months, signed a multi year contract and became an nba starter. since then? he’s been a hand clapping farce with pointy sideburns who couldn’t keep a lampost in front of him on d.
as a starter, hes hurting us. he gets beaten by his man more often than tina turner, and on a team that plays help d like we do thats a huge problem. ben gordon looked like he was running through a layup drill in the first quarter.
unless jose proves he’s the player we saw in those tj-less months, and not the one we’ve seen before and since, then the fact is his game is best suited to being a backup. his offense is predictable but nearly risk free, and if he can catch the defense napping then he’s capable of scoring off the drive. as it stands today, antoine wright and jarrett jack form our best backcourt duo, and hopefully triano starts giving them the according minutes.
“Beaten by his man more than Tina Turner”. Gold
Maybe I’m dreaming here, but I thought Jose was covering Stuckey and DeRozan/other 2s were on Ben Gordon. And oh, Ben Gordon was destroying everyone, pretty much.
Toronto’s forwards dominated Pistons forwards.
Pistons guards dominated Raptors guards.
Pistons can’t score with the Raptors and lose – it’s all good, why the whining?
Jose started to make a few shots – he’ll get back to “normal” and score enough to off set his defensive issues.
Jack will score better but he was never better than an average shooter – still a great contrast to Jose when he enters the game.
It was good to see Jose & Jarrett on the floor together and a lead got created – that’s novel! Possibly due to the under-sized Pistons guards? Or that’s what happens when Gordon has to play over 45 minutes?
Look around the league – No one can stop a guard who is shooting well.
“Look around the league – No one can stop a guard who is shooting well.”
A couple of days ago, when the Hawks were playing the Lakers, JJ started off on FIRE, making 8 of his 9 first field goal attempts, on Kobe. Once Artest switched on him, JJ went 1-9 for the rest of the game.
I agree with you if the guard who is shooting well is Kobe, Wade, Lebron. But anybody else can be stopped, or at least slowed down, by good defence.
Artest shut him down on one night…but most guards can’t be stopped when they’re shooting well…just look at their nightly stats and you’ll have all the proof you need. Even when Bargnani was hot against Cleveland, LBJ couldn’t slow him down.
Did you watch DWade light up Washington for 40 pts ??? Nobody could stop him last year and looks like he is at it again.
Why does everyone consider these guys “bad defenders” just because they get beat on one or two plays a game? You realize in the NBA, everyone gets beat during every game right? Especially at the pg position.
You realize guys on the all defensive team, guys like Kobe, LeBron, CP3, even they get shook and broken down several times every game right?
I am not saying our perimeter defence isn’t porous, but I just think looking at rotations, positioning, boxing out and decision making are all key metrics in determining whether someone is a good defensive player. Not just “well, he got beat on these two plays.”
A key example of this is the corner 3 by Will Bynum tonight. Everyone seems to blame Jose for this, but watch it again and you’ll notice that Bargnani was WAAAAY slow on rotating over after a pick and roll on the strong side.
Jose had gone up to the elbow extended to guard Charlie V, thus leaving Bynum open for a wide open 3. This actually happened again EXACTLY on the next possession but this time he yelled at Bargs who thankfully ran over in-time to check CV.
Given that, I’d think Jose actually made the right choice — I’d much rather give a wide open 3 to Bynum than CV.
Defence involves more than just guarding the ball.
Simon, you make excellent points. Thing is, some of the guys you mentioned do other things really well, so it’s easily forgotten. Jose is in a supposed funk right now (I’ve seen him miss a bunch of shots early yesterday) and that magnifies his alleged “mistakes” on D. For most basketball fans, even if you can’t do anything with the ball, we’ll appreciate you stopping your man or having an impact on the game in some other way. Again, he doesn’t seem to be doing that right now.
And what’s even more frustrating (to me) is that this is his job, he’s a professional. Why is this guys showing up at the start of the season in conditions I expect him to be in during March? I don’t get it. Why do other team start of 5 – 0 with personnel changes just like us, and we have to play the “oh just give this team 30 games.. then we’ll see where we are at” That is so beyond unacceptable.
is this a joke? We are 4 games in… nobody is giving Jose 30 games. And do you want to list those 5-0 teams and all their “big” personnel changes (especially compared to the Raps)?
Jose may not be playing great right now…. but the Raps are. They may be 2-2 but they have been in it in both those loses. You have to give Memphis credit for playing a great game and Orlando… well who expects D-12 to 14-16 from the FT line while Bosh goes 10-17 (or something like that).
Jose has been reliable for 3 years straight now. I think he is allowed a little slack over 4 games.
Good points but I think the expectations of the Raps have gone up compared to recent years (and deservedly) to not just be “hanging around” with teams like Memphis, a very hobbled Orlando, or a banged up Detroit on a back to back (who eventually ran out of gas for the most-part). I’m not overly worried about the PG position though – really we just need one of them playing like a starter and we’ll be “Okay”. Plus we have other playmakers available (Turk or even Belli-boy).
The Raps are playing great??!! I guess we have different standards. If you enjoy watching this team trying not to eat the East basement every year and playing .500 ball.. all the power to you. I’m sick and tired of it. And if you agree a professional should show up to work not ready to play while getting paid LARGE amounts of money.. again, all the power to you.
Someone pointed it out, Jose is NOT delivering what we have been promised since TJ got ran out of town. If that sits well with you that doesn’t mean it has to sit well with everyone else.
And no, that was not a joke. I’m as serious as a heart attack.
Why can’t Jose just be in a slump for a few games? Jose has never stuck me throughout out his career as a guy who is “not ready to play”. Do you think MJ, Kobe or Lebron haven’t thrown some stinkers, or streaks of stinkers, throughout their careers? They must not have been “ready to play then” aswell.
Flux I know you are not a Jose fan and are one of those always ready to jump on BC’s Raps when things aren’t perfect, so you can never appreciate just enjoying the game. The two games they lost are perfectly acceptable. Nobody is expecting the Raps to be unbeatable. Atleast I’m not. If they actually sucked those games I would be bothered, but they didn’t.
For as much as we criticize what has been “bad” with the Raps so far this year… there is a lot more “good” to be excited about. Thats why they have played great.
True enough, Hardcore. I’m highly critical… I guess I’ve just had enough of the same old same old. And I’ve stopped running on hope a long time ago, although you are right…it seems there are better pieces on the team this year. I still don’t believe they will we used properly or that they will gel. Some guys just don’t mesh well with others, no matter how good they are individually or how good a team looks on paper.
BC thinkers around too much, always mixing it up and I don’t think that’s a good long term plan. Short term everyone gets excited and prays.. but its not a good long term plan.
As far as Jose – at the end of the day my mind cannot comprehend what this guy has been doing the entire off season. He does not look like someone who’s been getting ready to play ball at a high level. And if he needed time to rest, then why are we forcing him onto the team when he appears to be a liability on the floor.
I agree that Jose isn’t out of shape. He’s just not shooting well. I’m sure he’s as frustrated as anyone else, and as with all shooters he just has to keep firing away and eventually it’ll fix itself. It happens to everyone, so if anything this is his chance to show that outside of spotting up he can prove valuable to the team in other, less tangible ways.
What 5-0 team acquired 9 new players during the off-season, and has only 3 players from last season’s spring training batch? I’m curious.
Well, what team that’s attempting to be good acquires 9 new players?
I’m stuck with crappy internet for a good long while and haven’t been able to watch a game yet. So I have to read the recap, etc. to get any sense of how the Raptors are doing. While this team looks deeply flawed, I’m wondering if it’s changed in at least one crucial way – they seem to be able to actually fight back. Both the Cleveland and Detroit wins had them lose a lead and still win. Against Memphis and Orlando they seemed to actually mount a comeback after digging a deep hole. Am i right that these guys may have grown a pair in the off-season? Flux or another old-timer on this board might be best to answer.
9 new players…basically a completely different team.
But is it really? Or are they still pussies because the core is still there?
Sam, good to “see” you. I was wondering where you are at.
I’m not sure what to tell you. I think it’s too early to make a call. At the very least, yes, after they blow leads they seem to fight back. (yesterday the blew a 17 point lead) Then again, vs Clv and Det we were playing teams not at their 100%. So you are right, compared to last year – it seems we are not done and over with after digging a hole, so I’d say there’s less bitchassness. Does that hold true vs an elite team, in a game that actually matters? It remains to be seen, I would say.
If Wright was played 30 minutes a game Toronto would be 4-0.
maybe if he puts up 30/10/10 like the only other player that has proven to consistantly win games “on his own”… exagerrated point taken though – he has proved himself to be a game-changer.
I’m very confident Derozan will get there…but as it stands, he deserves spot minutes…and not at the start of the game.
So far we’ve been doing a pretty sketchy job starting off games, and I blame the backcourt.
We all knew this was gonna happen with Jose right?
It’s just too bad jack can’t hit an open shot.
I will be the first to admit that Calderon is not playing well, but anyone who would bench him should never, EVER go near the bench, or consider themselves coach-worthy. Does anyone think that this is the player Calderon is? Is benching him going to help him get back to that player? Raptor fans seem to forget it’s an 82 game season, not a ten game one. The Raptors need Jose to be the player he can be, and the way to do that is let him play through his funk. If he’s still playing like this ten-fifteen games from now, THEN you might have an argument. Not now. Now after four games.
I totally agree with you. For the Raptors to take it to the next level, they need Calderon at his best.
Raptor fans seem to have tunnel vision…do they not realize other top level players on other teams are struggling as well, other good big men are not getting 10 rbs/game, other top pg’s are also getting torched. And they seem to expect every player to have a great game every night…not gonna happen in this league,
I agree 100%. People ripping on Jose just don’t get it. Yes he’s not playing as well as expected but honestly, who other than CB is? Rewatching the game as I post this Jose had 2 great looks from deep, hit one, two brilliant passes into the post that weren’t finished (one to HT one to AB) and a mistimed Alley oop attempt. It’s still only 8 minutes into the game! On top of that he’s moving the ball much quicker up the court and is moving the rock around the perimetre faster, trusting more than just “throw it down to Bosh.”
Between the rust and the new players and new system people need to chill on him a bit. It’ll come. As for Jack, he’s got one move to get into the lane, can’t hit a 3 to save his life (had 2 wide open 3’s late and bricked em both) and isn’t a great playmaker. He’s a 6th man. Get over it.
Well said…
Who the fuck runs this site? We are 4 games in and the Statistics tab has nothing in it, it was the same during preseason. Get yor shit together RR!!!
c’mon, guy gets 22+12+2 and sinks 4 winning FTs, and the Pimp is Antoine Wright?
yeah…if you can knock him when he’s down ,you should give him props when he’s on.
i’m guessing it’s ’cause until wright came in, the raps were well on their way to giving up 90 pts from the perimeter. without his defensive contributions, i’m not sure the raps are in it.
bargs – best game i’ve seen from him in quite some time. i guess rebounds maybe do make a difference? while some did ‘fall’ to him – i’ve never understood why this is a bad thing, btw…doesn’t it mean he’s in good position – he was really getting after it. the difference in intensity was significant; hopefully, this will be the game that convinces him that he can focus on D & rebounding and the shots will still be there, and that he doesn’t necessarily have to be the offensive go-to guy for the team to be successful. if wright was the pimp, then bargs was his muscle.
Fair comment Yertu, and I will admitt that his rebounding was a factor, but his offence in the crunch is what makes him such an asset. I think after watching the way Turkoglu can handle the ball, the raps should be looking at a 2 who can stick an open shot and get after it on D. They may have that with Wright, but im still hesitant to say he can consistently hit that shot. Many of their breakdowns occured from the perimter which puts everyone in difficulty. If we can aquire a 2 to minimize this or if we can lean on Wright to be that guy, with Jack as the starter at the PG then this can be a much more effective starting 5. Also recieving an offensive boost off the bench from Calderon and DeRozan wouldnt be such a bad thing either. I know its a little early to make such a change, but DeRozan and Calderon really need to pick their games up if they want to remain part of this starting 5.
One last thing, any word on when Reggie will be coming back?
He just started walking a few days ago…. Sooooo I’d say like a month from now?
Yertu…c’mon… there’s a difference between fighting for a rebound amongst the trees – the kind where you make a statement and say: “MF, this is my ball, I will rip your face off for it” and a rebound that bounces to your knees or your lap – those to me are NOT good positioning. He had a few of those last night and there were a few other where he should have just followed his own shot and got the rebound. It’s been said before, he just doesn’t have the nose for the ball. He doesn’t anticipate – he reacts. I’ve seen him do that a few times last night – just staring at the ball coming off the rim and then swatting with one hand or praying it comes to him.
Oh yes very astute analysis of the game.
“a rebound that bounces to your knees or your lap – those to me are NOT good positioning”
How does that make any sense, if he wasnt in that position he wouldnt have gotten the rebound, therefore thats good positioning. I can’t believe that you’re trying to dog on a guy who stepped up in the clutch and had 22 and 12. Get real!
chill, dude. it’s ok for guys to be critical of players, even when those players have had a good game. why, i do believe that you’ve been critical of bosh after he’s played well, no? it skews your argument if you’re always critical of player X, and always supportive of player Y.
as for flux’s point – i’m not trying to speak for him, but i believe the general idea he’s trying to get across is that bargs doesn’t ever go after the ball like it’s HIS, and that others are trying to steal something that is his. he showed much more involvement last night, and a greater commitment to the defensive / rebounding end (actually, i thought his help & hedges were really tight & aggressive), but i don’t think we’ll ever expect him to OWN the paint. i could care less, i just want to see him keep it up.
Yeah any big man in the league should pride himself enough to “go after it” like Bosh has early in the season. That effort and dedication has him averaging around 4 offensive RPG… And something I admit I have yet to see Bargs ever REALLY do…
Slow your roll, Coach. Are you new around here or what?
Like Yertu yesterday, I’m not rehashing my feelings on Bargs for your benefit. And why don’t your grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old. Every time someone says something negative about your hero, you get on here like some tough guy. 22 and 12 against who? Some half baked team in the middle of November during a game no one cares about? Call me when he does this in the second round vs a Boston or a Laker type team.
Why do I get the feeling this is you?
http://miltownkid.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/internettoughguy.jpg
Nice pic of your dad, but I’m John and its ironic I’m being called out as a 5 year old by the pussy who can’t even post his name. My criticisms of Bosh have been consistent, in that he’s a great player but not a max player. I’m not sure if thats even a criticsm, thats just how i see it. I also question his shot selection late in games, but overally a great player.
Nice pic of your dad, but I’m John and its ironic I’m being called out as a 5 year old by the guy who can’t even post his name. My criticisms of Bosh have been consistent, in that he’s a great player but not a max player. I’m not sure if thats even a criticsm, thats just how i see it. I also question his shot selection late in games, but overally a great player.
I’ve never been on this site before, but after reading some of the comments, this one about “bonding with dad” was pure gold. I love how FLUXLAND initiates the conflict by acting like a punk and putting up the picture and you totally turn it around, burn him big time, and he quiets down because he has nothing clever to say. Let that be a lesson, you come on here and play with fire by acting like a punk, then you’re likely to get burned.
I’d like to get also when bosh does 30\15 against Boston or a Laker type team , in playoff time, instead of running away from mikki moore…
bargs is not dirk, we get it.
thankfully is not kwame brown o milicic, either.
anyway is a FACT that since day1, bargs has done more clutch plays than bosh.
If this two guys give their best effort together, and cover each other weaknesses, we win. simple as that.
Yeah funny how that gets overlooked, especially the Mikki Moore thing, that was embarrassing.
‘anyway is a FACT that since day1, bargs has done more clutch plays than bosh.’
Really. Where do these FACTS come from?
It’s cool if some people like Barg’s and others like Bosh but don’t toss out arbitrary foolish comments, especially when they ahve no base or foundation.
Cleveland was considered a top 3 team in the east for your information, but if thats not good enough lets look at what Bargs did last season in Boston.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0v3fUvZ0xg&feature=related
i hear ya flux, but usually, 1/2 of his 5 or 6 boards are ones that just come to him, and last night, of his 12, i thought he actually either fought for, achieved dominant rebounding position for, or just outworked/outhustled his man for about 6 or 7, which, IMO, was great to see. but i totally understand where you’re coming from…i watched the first 1/2 of of the OKC/LAL game tues. night, and man, those guys on OKC just WANTED the ball – etan thomas, collison, green, they were going after it, owning the glass. it’s weird, the value of dominating the boards & the subsequent psychological lift a great rebound provides is sooo underrated.
i’ve come to accept that he (bargs) just doesn’t have a natural instinct for the ball that great rebounders do…i just hope he can compensate for that through hard work & greater effort.
I felt Sefolosha’s performance on Kobe was even more impressive. Wouldnt he look great in a Raps uniform. Durrant looked like crap and that shot at the end of the game was total crap, he should have looked to drive and kick it to a teammate if they were going to double.
absolutely. didn’t see the 2nd half, so i’ll take your word for it. thabo is a great young defender, i was kinda surprised chicago seemed so willing to part with him, considering they share a division with the cleveland lebrons. strong wing defenders ain’t exactly a dime-a-dozen.
the guy who impressed me most on OKC was probably green – what a great stroke from the perimeter, and he just knows how to play the game. that’s a team, if they can hold ‘em together, that has a really bright future.
couple other thoughts – it’s a little early, but wright might be the best perimeter defender the raps have had since…MoPete? his offense (well, his 3-pt shooting) has been a pleasant surprise as well.
as a whole, the raps seem to play better against a) teams coming off a back-2-back, b) teams missing key players, & c) teams that have an unbalanced offensive attack.
That’s what I’m saying, Yertu. And incidentally, I was watching the OKC first 1/2 as well the other night – again, that’s what I was saying. (also, MAAN is Andrew scary good)
But I’m where you are at, as I was saying yesterday to Scott G.. I’ve accepted who is, just bothers me when he has an above par night and people are calling him The Worm.
I don’t buy this ‘natural instinct’ business . In their development years (before they turn professional) they improve their various skills differently from each other . For whatever reason Andrea saw his improvement in scoring far more important than grabbing rebounds (perhaps he had coaches that did not impress on him the importance of getting rebounds for your team). Now his improvement in that area will have to come from hard work , and I think he is doing just that.
Give me a fuckin break….so what I’m hearing is that Bosh has never had a rebound drop in his lap !!!!relax with the crapping on everybody.
I think we won the game !!!!
Bargnani finished the season last year going 19pts and 6rbs after the All-Star break. All summer Rap fans on this site were harping on the fact the he can’t remain consistent. As of now, he is averaging 22pts and 7rbs and still he gets ripped apart even though he’s first in the league in scoring among centers. Go figure…
And he’s only 24 and still improving.
What is the problem in acknowledging that Bargnani had a very decent rebounding performance? Ya, Detroit went small, but why are some people afraid of giving credit where credit is due? He got 12 boards, good for him. Move on. If you allow he had a good rebounding night (he was in other ways deficient on D) it won’t be the end of the world.
No need to start another point guard controversy.
Raps need both JC and JJ to play well, most likely in different combinations and minutes without sulking.
I can give JC some slack, it’s only game 4 and at least he’s proven and provides some other leadership.
Sorry guys, I’m going off on Marco.
I turn on into the game when the raps were leading,
I see Belinelli on the court and I hold my breath,
he misses two open threes and gets blocked driving to the net in traffic,
For a 2 guard he is very unatheletic/strong so you better be a sharp-shooting specialist and he is not. He’s the worst defender by position on this team for sure.
he single-handedly lost the lead for Toronto.
I’m getting frustrated that he seems to be a (negative) momentum changer in the 3rd quarters, that’s the vibe i got with the Memphis game too.
Luckily the starters rescued the game.
Well put, sir. The Belinelli risk outweighs the reward. Pull him off the bench for 4 minutes, see if he’s got his stroke. If it isn’t there, sit him down for the night so that he can’t do anymore damage.
Don’t look now, but 4 years into his career, the Bargs is starting to get me excited. Dude was the best player on the floor yesterday – and it ain’t the first time this season. I’m ready to believe now, Andrea. Give me 20 more games of sustained excellence and I’ll be ready to pick up a Bargnani road jersey.
Is there any way that we could have Bosh just focus on becoming a defensive/rebounding monster and ease up on calling set plays for him? Give his shots to Bargnani or Turks and maybe just let him get his buckets naturally through the ebb and flow of the game…Shawn Marion style? Turn him into a 15 point, 15 rebound, 3 blocks per night kind of guy? I understand the need to call plays for him when Bargs isn’t on the floor, but at this point we might be getting more bang for our buck if we use him as the second or (third) option.
This won’t happen because Bosh will need high scoring (many via free throws) in addition to high rebounding rates to justify his demand for maximum money.
Bosh could go down for the rest of the year and still get max money. Bosh could average 15/9 for the season and still get max money. Bosh could get a DUI while simultaneously beating a prostitute and still get max money. HE DOESNT NEED TO PLAY INTO A CONTRACT. Max is Max. It means he cant get anymore than that. Maybe he just realized his drive and found confidence from the Team USA Olympics thing. He tore it up last year before being physically weakened. So he hit the gym to avoid that from happening again. And again he is posting 22/16 games this year. He’s a top 10 player – thats what they do. No one is accusing Lebron/Wade/Boozer/Nowitzki/etc are playing for contracts! AHH!
maybe, but…part of what makes bosh a high-calibre player is that he gets to the line so often. considering he (usually) makes a very high % of his FTs, those are *free* points, that help in more ways than just adding to the score (gets the opposition frontcourt in foul trouble, helps spread the floor, creates mismatches & open looks on the perimeter, etc). reducing the # of set plays run for him isn’t neccessarily a bad idea, since there are other offensively gifted guys out there with him, but there are other positive offshoots to running an offense through him. it’s easy to say ‘give his shots to hedo or bargs,’ but the reality is, without a defense that focuses on bosh, are those shots even available?
good point.
bosh stagnates the offense, but he is effective (if that doesn’t happen in clutch situation).
the shots will be available only if we will have: a good offensive plan; good execution, good reading of the defense.
if the attack plan shifts to hedo vs 5 or Bargs vs 5, the outcome won’t change.
In previous years, Bosh did slow things to a crawl, but I don’t see that happening this year so far. I’ve been hard on Bosh in the past for such things, but this year, apart from his still-rusty shot, he’s been everything he can be, and 16 FTA per game is so effective.
I understand what you are saying, Yertu, especially with the getting to the line bit and all – but I don’t know. You’ve seen the offense running through Bosh the past couple of seasons – no? Hard to make the case that the “positive offshoots” of running an offense through him make the other guys so good that we can produce consistent W’s. What I’m seeing this year is that an offensively efficient Bargnani seems to make the difference between winning and losing for this team. I know he hasn’t proved that he consistently be the guy or anything, but these 37 point nights by Bosh don’t seem to be bringing out the best in our team either. With the emergence of Bargs and some better players on the court this season…maybe an adjustment in our strategic thinking is in order.
Enough of bashing (or diminishing) Bosh’s contributions. He is still a dominant player, who needs to understand the players around him. With Bargnani and Turkoglu, there really are options on this team. Once the pg’s start hitting their shots, this team can produce. The thing we see with Bosh is there are times he forgets he has a supporting cast and wants to do it all himself.
As for the shooting….. So many open 3’s missed…. Never confident seeing Jack or Belinelli go up for one at this point.
So let’s hear more about how tired Detroit was and that we were lucky to catch them tired and shorthanded… That’s the point of this site isn’t it???
yeah, reality sure is a mo-fo…
Mike D.,
The problem with your proposal is that Bargnani doesn’t create or manufacture points like Bosh does, so he can’t be a first option on offense. You can’t just give Bargnani the ball and expect him to either get a basket or get to the line. That is true of Bosh, though, who is currently averaging over 16 free throw attempts a game. That’s phenomenal and one of the main reasons why he is so much more efficient a scorer than Bargnani. Now, keep in mind, this is not a bash of Bargnani but an examination of the facts.
Bosh CREATES more baskets than Bargnani does, who relies much more on teammates to get him the ball in a position to score. Even on the plays where Bargnani drives by his man, it’s usually due to good ball movement and Bargnani’s defender running at him.
Relying on Bargnani to be the main scoring option would be incredibly dangerous as if he’s not shooting well AND his teammates aren’t passing well, he’s simply not going to get his points.
I wrote a post discussing this sort of thing a while ago….
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/2009/10/what-makes-a-great-scorer/
You know, Tim, I respect what you and others are saying. Logically, my senses tell me that you are right – Bosh should be the first option on this team. Statistically, it seems like you are right – he scores a lot and he gets to the line a lot. I can’t disagree with the stats. He is, by my calculation, easily this team’s best player.
Yet I can’t help but feeling, as I’m sure some others do, that in spite of all the stats and the logic and the overanalysis that we’re all guilty of from time to time…this is still – on some level – an instinctual game. The stats don’t tell you how to compete when you’re down 20 (Vince) or let you know who’s got the stones to make the big shot when you need one (Hedo). They don’t tell you how to go after a loose ball or change a games momentum. In these types of moments, it doesn’t matter whether you’re stats are those of Richard Jefferson or Robert Horry. These types of things can’t be measured. I would suggest to you and the rest of the Raptor Nation that after several years of watching Bosh play at a very high level, that he is unable to deliver the “first option” offense needed for us to be successful. (Not for lack of trying, mind you. I always feel like he’s getting the most out of his talent and putting forth a good effort).
I don’t think the road to success lies in asking Bosh to produce like a proper first option (i.e. like the Lebron’s and Wade’s of the world). He’s never going to be that – especially at the PF position. I don’t think the road to success lies in asking Bosh to make those around him better (i.e. like Tim Duncan or Chris Paul). He lacks the passing ability, ballhandling skill and overall basketball IQ for that. Again, his position comes with its limitations. But maybe now…now that we’ve got some better offensive players, we can take some of the weight off of Bosh’s shoulders. We just don’t seem to come out ahead on the W-L chart when we run things through him. That’s a stat that should matter.
I have no idea whether Bosh is good enough to be the best player or leading scorer on a Championship team, but I do know he’s a better option than Bargnani is. I know this by watching them both and I know that by crunching their numbers. And I know the Raptors don’t really have that much else to choose from.
And it’s not as if the Raptors have ever really surrounded Bosh with enough talent to see whether he can lead a team deep into the playoffs. You can’t say that the Raptors have not been successful BECAUSE Bosh has lead the team in scoring, only that Bosh has had to score so much because they have had no other option.
Bosh’s offense has been much better this season. When the team is playing well on offense, he doesn’t hold the ball or force things. He’s moves, passes the ball and scores in the flow of the game. When Bosh does force the action, it was because the team is not scoring or playing well. Basically, he’s doing what the team’s best player needs to do.
He’s not Kobe, LeBron, Wade. Duncan or Chris Paul, but the Raptors don’t have players like that, and franchises can go a lifetime without ever getting guys like that. Barring completely gutting the team and hoping John Wall falls on their lap, the Raptors have to make due with what they have. Bosh, no matter how you look at it, is the Raptors best player and, at the very least, a top 15 player in the league (you could even say top 10, especially this season). Until the Raptors get somebody better, they’ve got Bosh, and a lot of teams don’t even have a player as good as that.
I agree with all your remarks. Its the last sentence of your reply that gives me pause. Somehow, even with less of a payroll and less talent and minus a “Top 15″ player like Bosh, it seems some teams still make the playoffs. (After all, 16 teams make it a year). How do these guys do it?
I think in the absence of having a Lebron or a Duncan, you’ve got to be strategic. Just giving it to Bosh and hoping for the best has failed too many times in the past for my taste.
Last year, I don’t count one team that was less talented than the Raptors last season that made the playoffs. Miami has Wade, who’s a top 5 talent, and some underrated role players. Atlanta didn’t have a top 15 player, but they were much more talented than the Raptors. Philly also doesn’t have a top 15 player, but were also deeper and more talented than the Raptors were last season. Everyone else was clearly a better, more talented team.
And giving the money to Bosh doesn’t prevent the team from acquiring talent. He’s making $16 million this season, and the Raptors are one of the deeper, most talented teams in the East. This year, it’s not talent the Raptors are lacking. If they aren’t successful, it’s the lack of defense and rebounding that will be their achilles heal. You can blame Colangelo, but he could only do what he could.
Really? I remember going into last season with a newly minted J.O. I believe the mood around these quarters was second round of the playoffs – at the least. In hindsight, yeah, we looked terrible last year. But lets not forget what the expectations were at the actual time. It was our most talented roster ever, in the eyes of our GM. Not one respectable (i.e. paid) analyst working for a respectable (i.e. national) magazine picked the Raptors to do worse than the 41-41 season a year previous. I remember reading interviews with Sam Mitchell in which he likened Bosh and J.O. to a new version of the Twin Towers – (a promise they did make good on – only more like the post-9/11 Twin Towers in New York, rather than the Duncan-Robinson combo).
Take a look at Houston last year. Even without McGrady, they adjust and make due. That is one shitty roster. Even without Yao. Its just teams like ours that get dealt a bad hand and then start taking “no” for a muthafuckin’ answer.
Yes, the Raptors had O’Neal, who was not fully healed, and not much else. Had O’Neal been where he was before, then I think you might have an argument, but just because expectations were high and Colangelo says something does not mean the Raptors were that talented. I think everyone can agree with that. I remember many times during November, last season, watching as Bosh and O’Neal were the only Raptors scoring or making an impact on the court. Kapono couldn’t hit even when he did shoot, Moon was not the player he was the previous season, Parker was a shadow of himself, Calderon was hurt and Bargnani was playing out of position at SF, and was playing as inconsistent as usual, anyway. Do you really want to argue that that’s a team that should have gone to the second round? And can you honestly blame that on Bosh? I think you stick LeBron on that team, instead of Bosh, and they barely make the playoffs.
Had Moon played like he did the previous season, Kapono played like he did in the playoffs, Calderon not gotten hurt and Parker started the season better, then I think the Raptors very well COULD have made the playoffs, especially since they didn’t end up that far out of them.
Now, once they traded for Marion and Bargnani started to play well, they played a lot better. They had a legitimate starting five (although not much else), and won some games at the end.
And what about the season where Colangelo first came on board and made all those changes? No one expected them to finish with 47 wins and win the Atlantic Division. It’s not always about how much talent you surround a player with, but what type of talent.
half the price
bosh played great. Deserves a rating of at least 8 and he’s been their best player so far this season.
I agree. how can you give Bosh a 7 when he’s been playing the best ball out of everyone on the team. definitely the most consistent. try judging everyone with the same system. no favorites. was that Andrea’s first double/double ever??
It wasn’t his first double-double, but it was the first time he got 12 rebounds. Surprising, even if he’s not a great rebounder, you’d expect 12 to fall into his lap some game.
9 for 4
SOLID PERFORMANCE FROM THE ENTIRE FRONT COURT. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHIND DONE ABOUT THE GUARANTEED MINUTES FOR THE STARTING BACKCOURT. NOTHING SHOULD BE GUARANTEED, IF YOU CAN’T PLAY ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT YOU SHOULD SIT ON THE BENCH AND WATCH. JACK IS OBIVOUSLY THE BETTER CHOICE RIGHT NOW. I THINK HIS SHOT WOULD BE BETTER IF HE WAS STARTING TOO. BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER. WHAT’S THE HOLD UP???
caps lock alert.
Are Bosh and Bargnani in a race for American President? I have not heard this amount of bias and rhetoric since the Obama/McCain campaign, or now with the healthcare debate. Man, it feels like Republicans vs. Democrats on this site.
Obama is a communist, who wants to control the world – Bosh hates his teammates, and only looks out for himself.
McCain is senile – Bargnani does not want to play defence.
The democrats’ public option will end the world – Plays run for Bosh means that everyone else sucks (for the record, nothing in an ISO play dictates everyone else NEEDS to stand around – coaching needs to address this standing around. It is not Bosh, or Turk’s problem, but the coaching and rest of the team).
Directed at SOME people (very vocal people) on this site:
My point is that NO MATTER what Bosh does, those who do not like him will be apt to find ways not to like his playing. Of course I am going to get a bunch of deniers, saying, well, I think Bosh is good, but I think he should do this, this, this, this, and cure cancer before I like him. Bosh is an asset. We needs to be used properly. It is a different debate entirely whether he deserves a max contract, but I mean come on, give the guy a break.
My point is that NO MATTER what Bargnani does, those who do not like him will be apt to find ways not to like his playing. I will get the same brand of denial, asking for Bargnani to come up with a laundry list of all the things he needs to do in order to win people over.
Bosh and Bargnani are not in a race. We treat them like they are not teammates. We IMAGINE slights on the court where we think Bosh and Bargnani act like rivals. The reality is they are trying to find ways to work together. Are there differences between Bosh and Bargnani, and deficiencies in each game that need to be addressed? Of course. Do we need to evaluate how often they should play on the court together given obvious defensive deficiencies? Of course. But we need to tone down the rhetoric, and remember that we are trying to find ways that BOTH can succeed on this team.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath. Bosh does not hate the team, and want to lose by padding his stats. Bargnani is not indifferent to losing as long as he makes three-pointers.
Oh, and kudos Arse for trying to come up with objective ratings for this game. Bosh and Bargnani both played well, but neither deserved a 10, and Bargnani had a slightly better game for most of it.
verbatim , you have made the most intelligent posting on to-day’s blog , unfortunately like in politics there are opposite poles , opposite opinions , all we can do is agree to disagree and go on with our daily lifes.
Last season, Bosh and Bargs were out of sync, and I thought that would carry over into this season … but I was wrong. I credit Triano or BC for convincing Bosh to share the ball more and to work on the offensive boards.
Bosh is scoring more than ever, and it’s all because he’s getting offensive rebound putbacks. His extra (upper body) weight is helping him bull his way in for offensive rebounds but he is also making a supreme effort to fight for offensive rebounds and not only getting uncontested defensive rebounds.
I noticed Bosh doing these things in the first game of the season and he got 16 rebounds! I only caught the 4th quarter of the Detroit game, but I was astounded when I saw Bosh getting the ball just inside the arc and facing the basket from about 20 feet … a normally expected outside shot for Bosh … but he passed it off (somewhat hesitatingly) to the wing and then ran to the basket where he got the offensive rebound and scored .. this would have never happened last season …!!!
If you look at the individual player stats, you will see Bosh way up there on scoring and rebounds both offense and defense rebound!! This guy is proving himself to be max money player and becoming an all-round player!!
What this has done for the Raptors is made the other players more effective, particularly Bargs, all because Bosh is quickly passing the ball for movement, and then crashing the offensive boards. Somebody, perhaps BC or Triano told Bosh what he would have to do to be considered a max money player … for the Raptors or some other team if he decides to leave.
Does anybody else see this as well …???!!!!
I don’t think we can fault Bosh for his play these first 4 games at all. I see what you are seeing, and it is a pleasure to watch. I am concerned that when we give the ball to Turk or Bosh, and the ball stays in their hands, the rest of the team just stands around. This is not on Turk or Bosh, but on the other players and the coaches.
Yes. Absolutely.
Why isn’t Triano starting Wright? Derosen looks good (for a kid) but starting A.W would go miles to stopping the first quarter bloodbath at the hands of of opposing perimeter players. He was good enough to start for a better team then ours last year. Let DD cut his teeth defending some second unit types for a while.
one more comment about the ratings. how can you give amir 5? He did what he was asked to do: rebound, play D and bring energy. Not to mention that he didn’t lose focus and try to do more to impress his former team (and he would’ve been starting for the Pistons yesterday imo). His rebounding avg was also pretty close to AB.
I know the ratings are subjective, but I sense a lot of angst and harsh evaluations of most players.
Became a Raptors fan when my man Turk got traded from Magic. One issue that bothered me last night was players wanting to do things on their own but end up missing shots. Poise and reading the defense is what this team needs. Otherwise, i am afraid well see inconsistent results thruout this season. Win feels good. I hope our gas for the next weeks’ games would be enough to get at least half of them in the W column. Go Raptors.
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[...] John says: Nov 4, 2009 at 11:56 pm. It has nothing to do with effort as he is effectively boxing out his man, even when his rebounding numbers may not show it. Today was a reward for his hard work, bravo Andrea! ….. It’s fun when they spike it into the money seats but it’s much more valuable to block it inbounds or the ever rare but awesome “pick it outta the air ” type where the blocker just goes up and pulls it down. Reply. Edgar says: Nov 5, 2009 at 1:02 pm …Continue Reading [...]