It’s very early but anybody a bit shocked at our 28th place defensive rating? That’s points per 100 possessions allowed. The new poll begs for your opinion on whether the issue is chemistry, laziness, inability or strategy. So far I’d classify it as the inability to execute the strategy. This leads into the question whether the strategy is even suited for the players we have and whether they buy-in to what is being preached. Laziness is the least favorable of the options and only becomes a factor if players don’t believe in the system they’re being asked to play; although we’ve seen some questionable effort in stretches, I think it’s way too early to label this unit as lacking effort.
First up, could Vince Carter be welcomed back in Toronto? According to the Orlando Sentinel, it might happen on November 22nd when the Magic make their second and last trip to Toronto. The Raptors will first ask first ask Carter if he’s OK with it and if so, they will go ahead with it. This only makes bloody sense to me since he’s, you know, the greatest Raptor of all time.
A couple of small things came out of practice yesterday, Triano was asked whether he’s considering starting Antoine Wright over DeMar DeRozan to tighten the defense. He said:
“Not for a second. No. I think the rookie has been very good in limited minutes and we’re happy with where he is right now. I don’t think he’s hurt us at the beginning of games. Antoine is going to play minutes. I’d rather have Antoine playing at the end of the game, getting stops than at the beginning.”
It’s a dumb question to even pose to the coach at this point. DeRozan isn’t the reason we got beat by the Magic or Grizzlies, he’s been consistent in what he’s doing, granted, he doesn’t do much and tends to take baby-steps but that’s the right way of bringing along a rookie. Yanking him after three games would not only send the wrong message to the man, but also hurt the rhythm he’s in. If anything, we should be incorporating him more in the offense instead of running two-man games.
Triano was also asked to name the reason we lost the Magic game and he said…wait for it…dribble penetration:
“Dribble-penetration was our biggest problem last night. We showed them three clips, I think we had 12 we could’ve showed. This means guys have to help and that’s how they allowed to kick for threes. We worked on our close outs today. We have to get better as a team. We’re not a super-quick team so we have to get better at closing out. I think when they make a few shots, you close out a little bit more, your hands are up and you become susceptible to more blow-bys.”
There are two main ways you judge a coach, there’s the technical aspect where you evaluate what he is able to bring to the playbook, and then there’s what he can bring out of his players. In other words, is he able to get acceptable effort out of his players. Sam Mitchelll was fired for both these reasons and Triano will face the same challenges, although, he is better equipped in terms of personnel. Dribble penetration is caused when you either don’t have the ability to defend or you’re just not trying hard enough, too early to say where are current failures lie but I hope it’s a system thing. The podcast touches more on Calderon and Jack’s ’s effort and ability.
Jarrett Jack also talked about how annoying it is to get lit up by JJ Reddick and that we all need to see that something so disgraceful doesn’t happen ever again in our lifetime.
“You have an individual responsibility, but your team has a collective responsibility, so even if you don’t do your individual part to some degree, then that’s where the guys on the court with you have to pick you up where it’s needed,” Jack said. “It’s tough for anyone to do anything perfect all the time. You might not get beat for a basket, but you might get beat for a dribble so that someone may need to step up so we can force [the ball] to the weak side so we can force a contested jump shot.”
If I had to spend one whole practice on defense, I’d teach our guards how and when to fight through a screen, our bigs when to hedge and recover, and the rest of the guys their help responsibilities given matchups. Isn’t that what pre-game coaching is all about? Help off of Player A, don’t help off of Player B. If Player C has the ball in the post, the double (if we decide to) should come from Player D and so on. Most of the work on defense is spent on figuring out a game plan for how to help a beaten defender, and all through Mitchell’s reign we never managed to even slightly improve in that department. Our success this year will be dependent on whether he is able to convey what works perfectly in his mind to the players, and that is a great challenge.
Triano then touched on Bargnani’s rebounding which is always a contentious issue around these parts as most recently heard in the podcast:
“He needs to rebound the ball better. He knows that. He’s one of our five men and we expect that. He’s a scorer, we know that. This is a part of his game that he has to get better at. I think everybody got caught blowing him up after Game 1. The thing that keeps Andrea on the floor so that he can score is the way he rebounds and defends. It’s a work, not just for him, it’s for everybody. We all have to get better at it. I don’t think Chris is defending the way he should be defending yet, but we’ll get there.”
A-Dub believes that this team will always be poor defensively as long as Andrea Bargnani plays high minutes, unless of course he changes the way he plays. There’s merit in that argument and the case being made is that since we have a lot of offensive options, you’re better off having a defensively stronger player playing center while giving the 15-20 shots Bargnani would take to someone like, say, Turkoglu. You gain on defense while maintaining and/or improving offense. I try to counter but the argument is quite strong.
The argument that a player like him needs to produce extremely efficient offense for him to be an overall positive is also discussed and a similar theory is applied to Calderon. Bargnani’s man-defense is commended but fair caution is given that it need not be confused with overall defense, which is something very different. DeRozan, Triano, Belinelli, Turkoglu and Jack are also discussed with favorable reviews for three of them.
Anyway, have a listen if you got some time, he ends the podcast by pointing out to a play which speaks volumes about Bagnani’s mental state when it comes to rebounding. You can click the play button below or listen directly in iTunes. You may also download the file if you’re on a mobile device.
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75 Raps
Arse the boxscores dont work on the site.
Also how do you feel about CDR tearing it up in Jers? Think BC coulda got him?
The guy on the podcast doesnt really make a strong case. He stutters throughout and cant really prove whatever it is he was trying to say. Replacing 22 points on 12-15 shots isnt as easy as he makes it sound. Not only do you lose 22 points, but defences then collapse on Bosh and he is nuetralized. He doesnt even consider how his offence opens up opportunites for others on the floor.
The 2 rebounds thing is pretty ridiculous and doesnt give any blame to our perimeter defenders who consistently get beat off the dribble way too easily.
…And yes Jose Calderon does have something to do with the Raptors defensive struggles, because when you get beat at the point of attack everything collapses.
Is is even worth listening too???? How many centers put up 26 on 12 shots with only 14 attempts (2 fouls). Sounds like another hater wanting to denigrate his play and contract. The issue is that they didn’t look to him the first half and he continues to be a whipping boy for his rebounding numbers. No I am too unhappy with those rebounding numbers, but also not happy seeing the offensive distribution. Hedo only took 13 shots, while Bosh had 20 + 9 trips to the line, which means he took the same number as Bargs and Hedo combined. All had good games, but come the fourth a few more touches for Hedo and Bargs will not hurt the team. In actuality we need Bosh crashing the boards in those situations with Johnson/Evans when healthy in those late game situations. Those Bosh clear outs with no rebounding presence in late game situations are lower chances.
Best comment here. Couldn’t agree more homie! If Bosh, Bargs and Hedo attempt a similar number of FG’s in the 4th quarter, our clutch time offense would be much more legit. We saw that momentarily in the fourth against the Magic when we were biting away at their lead. Bosh, Hedo and Bargs can all score inside and out and can all create quality scoring chances for teammates as well.
As much as i criticize CB4, i loved his attitude last game. His hunger and desire to chase down shot (rather than demand the ball before dribbling it off his knee) was long overdue.
And for the record, the greatest mentor Bargnani has had in his 3+ years in Toronto is Mr. Hidayet Turkoglu. Jermaine might have shown Bargs how to protect your yard in close quarters, but Hedo will teach our magician much more. His natural ability to make the right decisions and take clutch shots with no fear in the 4th quarter will rub off on Bargs imo. Not many big guys can catch the ball, look around through their peripheral while staring their defender down with a blank look and know when to jack it up or put it on the floor and penetrate at the right time the way Hedo does. Bargs has similar natural swag inside him which Hedo will help bring out over the next 5 years.
Bargnani is frustrating but lets be honest, if he had 6 of Bosh sixteen rebounds the other day, they would both have double double games. Statistically, as impressive as anyone would expect, but theoretically would still lose the game. His inept rebounding is an issue, but its not the only reason they lost the game.
I’m not sure I get the point of this. If your basement is flooded, you don’t worry about repaving the driveway. Bargs has a few cracks to fill in, but he is not why we are losing and playing so bad defensively. The biggest problem right now is dribble penetration – not Bargnani.
Thank you John and thank you KD!
God that fool was getting on my nerves about Bargs’ rebounding.
And the point about microanalyzing Bargs’ performance could be said about anyone who’s not a superstar. A-dub, why don’t you microanalyze Calderon’s shitty D or how he kills any potential fast break attempt. Or how scrub guards seem to have career nights whenever they face the raptors. You talk about how he couldn’t stop any or the penetrating guards, well with nonexistent perimeter D how is he supposed to take care of everything. He’s no Dwight Howard.
Complaining about Bargs’ lack of rebounding reminds me a lot of the pundits who kept bitching about how Allen Iverson didn’t pass enough or that he had too many turnovers, while overlooking his one of a kind talent.
To be fair, what did a team with Allen Iverson ever achieve? A NBA final appearance which nobody saw coming. Not sure I would use him as a comparison to drive home your point.
As I said, I’m more concerned with Bargnani’s defensive play than the actual statistic of rebounding although you can argue they go hand in hand. I think his defensive awareness on the court is generally poor and needs to be improved.
My point was that Bargs is an anomaly just like AI. Dirk is probably the only player who possesses the combination of size and skill (albeit much better) that Bargs has.
And you’re right about him needing to improve his defense but he’s still just 24. Compare that to the Hand Clapper who’s 28 and who makes 9.4 mil per for the next 4 years for continuously “trying to regain his form” as if he had any in first place and you’d see why it’s stupid to rag on Bargnani as if he’s the biggest underachiever on this team.
And as far as AI goes, in addition to being miscast as a PG, he’s led his teams past the first round 3 times which is more than the raptors franchise can claim.
Oh man, “past the first round” is considered a measure of success now?
Bargnani and Jose are both below average defenders. The issue with Bargnani seems to be effort/dedication to defense and the issue with Jose is ability to play defense. Two very different things.
24 isn’t exactly young. I tend to agree with A-Dub who said that by year 4 you’re going to get a damn good idea of what a player will bring throughout his career. Jack Armstrong made the exact same point in reference to Joey Graham a while back.
Andrea is playing well right now and I think he’ll continue to do so, question is will he increase his OVERALL activity and effort level so that he can elevate his game to be a truly great player or will he always be more of a one dimensional player that is fueled by his offense and considers defense a secondary thing. That is the question that people have doubts about.
Joey Graham wasn’t playing a drastically different position in some sausage league and then asked to be a centre in the NBA. Huge difference. I agree he needs to improve defence and rebounding, but lets step back for a second. His offensive post game, handles, and instincts have improved drastically and are still getting better. His defence has gotten much better year over year. That’s not a huge achievement based on how bad he was to start with, but why do people think he can’t or isn’t willing to improve on the defensive end? 4th year my ass. He still has lots of room to improve and I can’t see any reason to think he won’t based on the way his performance has been trending positively. Colangelo claimed he was a 5 year project. I’d say he’s coming along quite nicely.
holy fuck. what a great thing to have an ‘anomoly’!! yes, it sure is an ‘anomoly’ that a 7-foot centre grabs fewer boards than many guards & wings. YYAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY! how unique. like, WTF is going on here? are people seriously trying to pump up bargnani ’cause he’s camping out on the perimeter & draining 24-footers? can someone name me the last ch’ip team with a starting centre who didn’t rebound, was average defensively, and who’s primary skill was long-distance shooting? tick-tock…
i know i’m seen as a hater. whatever. truth is, i dig it when he nails a dagger from deep…when he makes guys like shaq look even older/slower than they really are…when he puts the ball on the floor, crosses-over (in traffic!!) & actually finishes at the rim. then i realize that what we’re witnessing is NORMAL BASKETBALL BEHAVIOUR. the ability to drive to the hoop without falling down, travelling or committing an offensive foul is somehow seen as some magical event when VL does it. i kinda feel bad for the guy, it’s to the point now where we’re just getting past the ‘aw, isn’t that cute, he made a move without looking retarded’ phase. good thing it’s only taken 3 years.
so yes, let’s marvel at what an ‘anomoly’ he is…and then maybe we can start wondering how anyone could think that’s a good thing. i mean, it’s not as though it’s actually translated to actual team success.
As much as I like what he can bring (mismatches, when his shot is falling, which is happening more and more consistently), I agree that people need to stop making excuses for our players.
If Bargnani is stinking up the gym, people should rip him a new @ss-hole! Bosh should (as our team leader), and the fans/media should. Same for Calderon, Jack, Bosh, and every other player on the team.
You don’t like being ripped like that? Do something about (on the court)! Like when Bosh complained about the fans booing: quit playing like a whole team of vegetable lasagnas that have given up, then fans will GLADLY cheer instead of boo.
He needs to suck it up and get MAD. Really, really mad. I want to see him get a suspension for beating the crap out of someone (preferably KG, who is a little bitch who backs away from anyone his size). I want to see him knock guys on their @ss when he gets caught out of position (every time)! No layups and continuation: if you get a rebound that was his, you’re getting NAILED!
That’s what I’d like to see.
The same can be said for the whole team. If you’re going to harp on 2 rebounds and defense, then wouldnt it be appropriate to harp on Bosh for shot selection and his shitty defense? Or Calderon for defense, spreading the ball around and his ability to hit an open J? Or Turkoglu for defense? Or DeRozan for not getting on the offensive glass since he doesnt have any responsibilities on offense? Jack’s ability to hit an open J can be brought into question as well. Amir Johnson and the fact that his D has been pretty shit as well?
The point here is that its a team effort and no one on this team is void of obvious flaws. This team is still adjusting to a new system, still trying to gel and still trying to get into game shape. If people like Yertu think its easy to replace 22 points and want to write off Bargs as simply a 3 point shooter then why dont you look at how effective the team is on offense when Bargs is out of the game and not spreading the defense?
I agree, John. Which is why I said, “Same for Calderon, Jack, Bosh, and every other player on the team.”
What I mean is that I want each and every player to be held accountable for his failings. I think the team itself should be open about these failings, not sweep these failings under generalities. As in, they can say to the media, “We need to get better as a team,” but I hope that in practice they have Iavaroni working with Bargnani to improve his D and rebounding. Alvin Williams working with Jack and Calderon to improve their ability to defend the pick-and-roll. Etc…
Those guys aren’t blind. Triano cited every flaw the team has in his interview with TSN in the summer. When asked after the last loss about Bargnani’s lack of balanced production he said it will be Bargs’ committment to defence and rebounding that will allow him to stay on the floor to play offense.
Lip service? Don’t know yet.
Meantime, let’s worry more about the lack of performance from the guards currently keeping us in the doghouse and less about Bargs preventing us from winning a championship in the future. We’re not even close to that right now.
This had a little tone of Nunya… I was hoping you were going to bring the heat.
FREE NUNYA! I miss her “to the point and completely demoralizing” posts. Nothing like a little Nunya to set the bib wearing clowns on here straight.
I don’t think you’ll see her around these parts while Bosh is playing well.
Nunya was a girl? With all those C-bombs? Really?
just to point out that, and i may be wrong, the reason why people are impressed when he drives from the 3 point line, crosses over and fingerolls a layup is because….again, correct me if i’m wrong…is there another 7 footer in the league that can do that? has there *ever* been another 7 footer that could do that?
fault bargnani all you want on the rebounding side, but offensively, he’s pretty scary. his offense is as good as his rebounding is bad, basically. his offense is SO good that, even though he’s maybe the worst rebounding center of all time (he’s the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time, so he’s probably in the discussion for all time worst for a center), instead of being out of the league, he just earned a 50 million dollar contract.
if bargnani’s offensive game continues to improve, and i believe he’s only scratching the surface…and he somehow magically got 10 rebounds a game, he would be historically good.
but he’s not. i guess my point is, hate on his rebounding, but cut him some slack on the offensive end…
RC your crazy, he’s the reason we’re losing every game. If we had some big lumbering idiot that collected 3-4 more rebounds and averaged 15 less points that would solve all our problems. We would be undefeated and as we all know its much easier to teach that person how to score from the outside, drive from the top of the key, pullup on a dime, and post up then it is to teach someone how to rebound. Plus this would mean we get to see Bosh thrive against double teams and also see how effective he can be when the lane is crowded. We could learn allot from reading Yertu’s posts, he knows whats up.
***sarcasm***
Actually Iverson is a solid comparison. His second option on offense was Aaron Mckie… think about that for a second.
“At this point Reggie Evans could have a couple good games and you’d start him at PG”
…that was hilarious.
Good podcast..keep it shorter though.
What happened to the end of the podcast? It just cuts off…
That was my attempt at a fadeout…c’mon..Tribe Called Quest
No, but one of you guys was still talking and then pooof gone,….like midsentence…i just listened to the link on the page here, didnt get from Itunes or d/l it
No doubt, there’s more than one weak link defensively on our squad, but this type of statement – “The biggest problem right now is dribble penetration – not Bargnani.” – tells me that people aren’t really watching what happens on the court, both with the Raps and with other teams in the league.
Here’s my take — perimeter players on all teams get beaten on a fairly regular basis. What happens then, however, is what separates good defensive teams from bad. The good teams quickly rotate into position to cover for the out of position defender, then recover back to “straight-up” defensive positioning at the earliest possible moment (ie when the ball gets contained). The bad teams arrive late to help at the first point, requiring more help, or don’t recover out of the initial help if they did happen to get there on time. Pretty simple stuff, at least in theory.
Bargs may not be the one getting beat from the perimeter, but he is the one showing up late (if at all) to help on drives, loafing back to his man after the ball is contained, not scrapping to get back into rebounding position after he helps on D, etc etc No doubt that his deficiencies could be overcome by adding a slew of talented defensive players around him, but help defense and rebounding are SO IMPORTANT from your bigs that it’s a lot to overcome. By contrast, defensive ability and rebounding is far less important at the PG spot… meaning that Jose’s shortcomings can far more easily be overcome by surrounding him with a complimentary lineup.
I love bargs’ offensive game, and I really hope that the light goes on in his head that he needs to play HARDER on the defensive end than vice-versa. Currently, it is obvious that he feels the opposite is true.
I think what people want to happen with Bargs, will never happen. He is who he is.. no more.. no less. People see this guy with all this potential, but the reality is that it’s too late to change anything about him. It’s been 4 years now, people need to let it go and find another scapegoat for all the Raptor troubles, cuz IMO, he is not it.
Flux — agree with your assessment of Bargs (in that he currently is the player that he will be in the future). As to “finding another scapegoat,” however, I’m not sure I catch your drift.
If the guy who’s starting at C and playing major minutes without contributing much on D or on the boards isn’t the scapegoat (and oh by the way just signed a HUGE extension prior to ANYONE in this draft class), who is?
If you’re looking for a single person to pin the blame on, there’s no doubt room to argue that others are at fault as well. But that doesn’t change the fact that there is still a culprit #1, and Bargs, perhaps in part because of the position he plays and the attributes a player at that position must bring to the table, is it. At least IMO…
Pardon me but what exactly is Bosh contributing to the defensive end? He is a horrible post defender and gets bullied on a consistent basis by physical players.
See Zach Randolph?
When your perpetrated “leader” is “getting his” and not playing D… are we to expect everyone else to? CB4 yells or screams in my face some BS about playing D, while he’s getting abused..I’d smack him across the face so hard, it’d make his head spin.
And i swear, CB4 is such an opportunistic lil punk. I cannot recall him getting a KEY rebound or bucket. EVER. It’s like he always gets his points and rebounds “quietly” .. as they say. When it matters, he fails..every.single.time. He really is the next coming of Shareef.
Scott G,
Touche.
I guess I didn’t mean YOU need to find another scapegoat.. but your point is well taken. Considering the role/position he plays..he should shoulder the blame. At that point, we can probably get into who put him in that position and in turn is responsible for the state of the team.
FLUZ … Most every player in the NBA can play offensively … but defense is whole new game that requires the use of brains plus brains plus athletics.
I think we attribute too much intelligence to NBA players because they are our heroes. Lot/most of these guys are not great minds when it comes to performing under pressure of executing defense. For some, their bball IQ may be high but if their athletic ability is low, they are dross on defense.
Playing defense is mentally fatiguing and is not as much fun as playing offense. If the Raptors had at least one super-defensive player … maybe Evans??!!!
FAQ,
Heroes? A bunch of highly paid, whiny, over grown babies? Not in this camp.
But I hear ya. And as I was saying to Scott G… can we really blame these guys? They are who they are. Ron Artest and the like didn’t come into this L lacking defensive/rebounding skills and then magically turned into who they are. We all know who is responsible for assembling this cast, just as we know his history of putting together players who lack the ability to rebound or defend. People who fail to admit this are lying to themselves..and are going to keep harping on Triano to make them who they are not, when Jesus himself couldn’t make them play D. I don’t care how many times Triano is screaming “Keep your man in front of you” during timeouts… it’s not going to happen.
What a sad state of affairs.
John – completely disagree… Bosh is a far superior defensive player to Bargs. Although he certainly does struggle AT THE 4 AGAINST SKILLED, STRONGER PLAYERS, he’d be in that spot less often if he were used at the 5 (as he was, back when the Raps were winning division titles). Taking the same game you mentioned, I think it’s safe to say Bosh would absolutely abuse Marc Gasol on both ends of the floor.
Flux – “what a sad state of affairs” – this is basically my opinion of the raps right now. Sad thing is, I see it getting worse before it gets better… Imagine this team sans Bosh.
BC just needs to do a better job, period. Stop trying to make big moves every off-season (or mid-season); draft guys and develop them; acquire young players that fit the mold and build around them… and DON’T be afraid to have a losing season or two if that’s what it takes to get to a better spot for the future of the franchise. Cause this “major moves every year to barely break .500 if you’re lucky” model is ridiculous…
With today’s officiating, the perimeter players have an easier time of getting into the piant. The onus rests on the interior players in some ways.
And about harping on the importance of boards, read about the relationship beween success and rebounding:
http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2009/01/importance-of-good-board-scores-part-ii.html
It’s that important. Who do you rely on to get most of your boards? Your C and PF. One of those guys isn’t doing that. At all.
c’mon A-dub, rebounding ain’t THAT important. i mean, having possession of the ball is totally overrated. besides, bargs contributes in other ways, like hitting 3’s at an excellent rate. that’s awesome. plus, he can pass, so he makes his teammates better. er, not that he DOES pass, but we know he can, i’ve seen it. it’s happened at least a coupla times this year already. and defensively, look how far he’s come. he hasn’t fouled out of a game yet, and he’s blocking guys like crazy. sure, his help D ain’t super, but that’s bosh’s fault, or the perimeter defenders’ faults – why they be letting guys get into the paint!! plus, the raps have been getting killed from the perimeter – in no way does that have to do with the fact that our overall defensive philosophy is predicated on packing the paint (which, uh, is in place under no circumstances cause our frontcourt D is a traveshamockery). that is all – cease with the hating, bargnani is putting up hUge numbers, so what if he rebounds like a wheelchair-bound MS victim. rebounding sucks, it’s hard work, he’s gotta save himself for launching those 3’s. that ain’t easy.
I sense a little sarcasm ;)
On a more serious note, if you’re going to make a case using stats, you may want to show the whole picture. For instance, how many teams with a positive differential DID NOT make it to the final four? And where did the team with the highest rebounding differential finish in the last 25 years?
I am betting that there were a TON of +RPG teams that did not make it to the final four, and a few who didn’t even make it to the playoffs. I am also betting that maybe 3-5 champion in the last 25 years have had the highest regular season rebound differential. And that very few of those top differential teams (1 per year) even made it to the finals.
If it was as simple as: > rebounds = victory, then virtually every year the team with the highest rebound differential would have won the championship. I am guessing that has not been the case.
Rebounding differential from last year:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatreb&season=2009&seasontype=2
Top 5:
Portland +5.4
Boston +4.5
Cleveland +3.3
Houston +3.1
Lakers +2.5
Bottom 5:
New York -4.0
Miami -2.9
Atlanta -1.9
Washington -1.7
New Jersey -1.6
Atlanta’s the only one that bucks the trend.
Well, that’s only 10 teams. That being said, this proves my point for one year: of the top five, only 1 team made it to the conference finals (and none of the top 4 teams made it that far).
So better rebound differential does not equal victory. In fact, these stats probably prove that rebound differential is a factor of many things, including keeping the opposition to a low FG% (because that gives you more defensive rebounds, which are easier to grab than offensive rebounds).
A team that always shoots a higher FG% than its opponents will have an upper hand on the rebounding battle. But that does NOT mean that a team with good rebounding is great at keeping opponents to a low FG% (they may just have great rebounders).
The “math” here is not a simple as: more rebounding equals more victories. There is a ROUGH correlation there, but not a direct one (because as I said, there are other factors that affect rebound differential). Otherwise, Portland would have won the championship last year.
i dunno, dude. it’s kinda like the argument that spending the most money on team payroll doesn’t guarantee success. it’s true, but the flip-side is that teams that don’t spend the money have virtually no chance. the same could be said for rebounding differential…no, being a top rebounding team doesn’t guarantee success (nothing is ever that simple); however, being a poor rebounding team (i.e. in the bottom third) makes it exceptionally difficult to compete with the top teams in the league, especially in the playoffs, when the intesity is amped up & greater focus is paid to rebounding & D.
I was just wondering , what will Portland and Toronto looks like in the standings if Portland had Jose and we had Roy ? May be Andrea rebounding will not represent a major obstacle to a championship .
ooooh, man. is it all that hard to imagine? you swap roy w/ jose, keep all the other pieces as is…isn’t TO a lock for top-4 in the east, at least? and, i’m afraid, portland gets to add to it’s collection of lottery talent.
Appreciate the effort here guys but the podcast was pretty weak. Stick to writing, unless you have a real expert you can interview.
I think its up to both Bosh and Triano to convince Bargs to rebound and stay active on defence. You just have to keep shouting it in his ear, reminding him when he lags off. I think especially Bosh would help since I think we all remeber the Golden State game, Bargs responded after Bosh got all pissy at him. Maybe it would help him more if his teammate screams at him more then his coach, especially if this teammate is Bosh.
uh, it’s been 3 years. i’m pretty sure it’s been mentioned to him once or twice. but, that’s kinda the problem with setting up a guy financially for life before he’d proven himself worthy. what, exactly, is his motivation to change what he comfortable doing?
Sometimes someone has to get pissy with Bosh…and I think Evans is that guy.
All the coaching staff are scared of pissing off the franchise…
Bargs is far from perfect…but he will remind you of that,after the Cavs win…what did he say “I have a lot to learn”
The big contract for Bargs ? it was offered to him…what would you do?
Lay off the Big Pasta!!!
Rebound Stats: I only count offensive rebounds and contested defensive rebounds … because uncontested defensive rebounds only indicate that the player is closest to the hoop and the other team has fled back on defense.
That’s what has surprised me about Bosh; he is suddenly working the offensive board and getting rebounds. He is impressive now that he is working off his butt to be recognized as a max or near-max money player. His scoring is also taking off, as a result of getting more offensive rebounds. Impressive … and he’s showing how much more he can grow.
Team Defense: When the ball is moving faster than you can think or move on defense .. well that means yer beaten. I think we must broach the possibility/probability that this Raptor team is not athletic nor intelligent enough to play effective NBA defensive bball.
Triano & Staff must know how much they can get out of this squad on defense, and their challenge is to somehow develop a defensive system a la Iavaroni to mitigate the team’s limited abilities. Something has to happen by Xmas otherwise all we got is coal.
You think it’s the contract year? I don’t know, he started last year exactly like this but tailed off. I think we need to wait it out and see how this team performs and handles adversity on that West coast swing. I think a lot of the questions will be answered there.
Disagree on the team defense part. Other than Jose and Bargnani, you can’t really say that our other defenders are below average. I think the players haven’t bought into the system or don’t understand the system just yet. It’s too early to make a claim like “this team is not atheltic nor intelligent enough to play effective NBA defensive ball”. You’re just going out on a limb and saying that with nothing to back it up.
If they’re still 28th in the league in mid-December I’ll tip my cap to you for seeing this coming.
Sometimes, defence is innate. Shane Battier is good at D because he wants to play D and he is committed to it.
Jose can’t because he doesn’t have the athleticism.
Bargs doesn’t because he doesn’t view it as a priority. Hitting threes is his priority.
So for Jose, it’s not really about commitment because he just can’t stay with guys like OJ mayo.
For Barg, it’s about willingness.
Very true, agreed on all points.
yes he has decided that he just wont bother, give me a break. SO whats Bosh’s excuse?
hey, arse…y’know that line about guys who wear VL’s jockstrap as a facemask?
Wow how clever, have nothing to say so lets resort to childish insults.
i see you chose to ignore the elephant in the room:
‘what’s worse, johnny…that he doesn’t care/doesn’t want to commit to that aspect of the game? or that after 3 years, he wants to, but doesn’t have either the intellect or ability? i’m not sure which is more frightening.’
what’s worse, johnny…that he doesn’t care/doesn’t want to commit to that aspect of the game? or that after 3 years, he wants to, but doesn’t have either the intellect or ability? i’m not sure which is more frightening.
as for bosh – he’s no saint, but you can’t question his heart or desire. no, he’s no lock-down defender, but at least he appears to give a shit & puts it out there. i hate going back to stats, but is it realistic that on top of going for 30/14 every game, we should expect bosh to play 40 minutes of all-nba-calibre D as well? y’see, the reason bosh gets a bit of a pass w/ respect to his D is ’cause he actually produces ALL THE TIME. even his crap games are above-average.
problem is – we all get sucked in by bargs stellar games (like cleveland), and as long as things go well for the team, we tend to give him a pass for his non-offensive contributions.
I’m a critic of Bosh but you cannot compare the defensive effort level of Bargnani and Bosh. Bosh’s problems have to do with sucking ass in the fourth quarter, wasting time on the clock, shot-selection blah blah blah, you cannot say that he doesn’t try to play defense. He shrivels up worse than Costanza after a swim when he’s playing certain (read c*nt) players but overall, his defensive play is acceptable.
Yes, he had some terrible moments against Randolph and in the pre-season but if you look at his defensive game as a whole (over the course of 4-5 years) you can’t come close to saying that he’s a defensive liability.
Now, Bargnani’s getting a lot of flak for his defensive effort despite having strong offensive games. I think Raptor fans are smart enough to know that shooting percentages even out over the course of the season and in the end you always fall back on your defense. We’re so used to him hitting some sort of wall that we want him to still be a productive member of this team when he does struggle (which is inevitable).
So you concede that bosh sucks on D, has terrible shot selection and folds in the 4th yet I’m sure you and many others like Yertu are willing to pay him max money, which will amount to twice as much as Bargnani. Sorry if i expect allot more value for my dollar, because the way i see it, on D they both leave allot to be desired and on offence most people know who the more dynamic offensive player is.
John, your arguments against Bosh as a player have NOTHING to do with Bargnani as a player. The argument was against Bargnani, and you are trying to change the subject. That’s like a lawyer attacking his opposing lawyer to prove that the latter’s client is guilty.
How is saying, “So what’s Bosh’s excuse?” countering the argument that Bargnani is just not willing to play defence?
Don’t get me wrong, I love what Bargs does bring to the table and want to see him succeed. I love him so much that I want him to be an All-Star. But to get there he has to get at least 7 RPG (probably more like 8 RPG, unless he is averaging 25+ PPG).
If he is averaging at least 20 and 7, I would come here and defend him each and every day.
So 2 more rebounds a game and you will defend him? Doesnt really make allot of sense to me because its only 3 games into the season. I’m not trying to change the subject, despite what you believe. The “subject” is not Bargs, its the reasons why the Raptors are struggling out of the gate, and Bosh the so called leader of the team, is a part of that. The people who are dog piling on only Bargnani or Jose need the reality check. This whole team is struggling on defense and if your going to sing Bosh’s praises and claim that he’s the only one without fault, I’m going to point out how wrong you are because max players play both ends of the floor and step up in key moments. Bosh consistently folds in the 4th and adds nothing to our post defense. Thats my point, that the blame needs to be shared because you win as a team and lose as one.
I’m willing to pay Bosh max-money???
Why exactly?
That was a “What, you think I’m willing to pay Bosh max-money???” statement, you took it the wrong way.
appologies i misunderstood that.
please don’t make assumptions about what i think. i’ve made my opinion of bosh clear in the past, and i’m not gonna rehash it now for your benefit.
i disagree; if this team should run (having 3 men able to run on open court), there’ll be much less need of keeping 20 boards for Bargnani… if you put more attenction on the rebounding situation, you’ll see that on every action he escapes like a thief to run on the other side of the court, leaving at least 5/7 boerds in the hands of the big man that is waiting dor the ball falling by the rim; stat don’t speak.
after listening to this podcast im just realizing this website is amateur garbage.thanks.
you should ask for a refund.
Haha…and you thought we were media credentialed, ex-NBA players who will soon be head coaches? Sorry man, you should check RealGM for those guys.
at least he listened
3 games into the season, and all the night birds are out at the cemetery already? Sometimes Raps fans are really funny but kinda gothic in their feelings. Who said that many music critics are just frustrated ex-musicians who could not rate the talent in Hendrix from – say – the Spandau Ballet? You can apply this here too to some of us.Some pretend they know about ball, they swear they play it, and then you just stare at them while they go on forever repeating the same boring lullaby.
C’mon, it’s 3 games, Evans is not there, bench hasn’t showed up yet, point guards and SGs are still struggling, nine new players…But all you will hear from the usuals is ‘Bargs can’t rebound’, ‘Bargs can’t defend’, ‘he’s a total liability’ and they won’t even probably call him Bargs, Andrea or Bargnani, but use some stupid (and kinda insulting too, Italians always have been nicknamed via pasta or similar food in difficult social situations across history) nickname…Wanna know what they used to say just a couple of years ago? Bargs cannot score on a regular basis. Well, he does now, doesn’t he? He can’t play any low post offense. He’s starting to display some, isn’t he? That’s what I call an improvement, a progression. But no, after 3 games, the blame’s all on him.
But then again, why argue? It’s just frustration that comes from somewhere else. It’s a psychological projection. They’re just leaves in the wind. You want my guess? Bosh will leave and the same guys will start to hate him so badly. They’ll probably even adopt that nickname, RuPaul, which is even more stupid than the one I was talking about. (Use a sexual behavior/category to insult someone, very smart and virile…a 2-way stupidity…well done, Shaq.)
Hey, it’s all fine, and this is just a game. But don’t come in here and pretend you know and master basketball culture. It’s just an exercise to try release some of your frustration. Negative creeps. Suggestion? Take a walk or have sex, both are win-win situations, for us and for you.
here’s a thought as to why we lost the orlando game. I noticed that Triano has had an affinity to switch to jack calderon combo to close out many of the past three games. I think the reason we couldnt complete the come back was in part because of the defensive liability that playing these two together brings. They couldnt stop jj redick in the 4th when Jack was guarding him. I dont think he has the quicks to keep up with the athletic swingman that play the 2 in this league. Sure he is strong enough which gives him an advantage with the 1’s of this league but his lack of length creates a problem when he cant get close enough to these taller defenders to contest their shots. Also I think Jose’s unfamiliarity playing the off-guard slot, and in my opinion consistently streaky shooting does not make this line-up the best choice. Maybe if Antoine Wright played the last five minutes of this game we would have been able to slow down redick and the rest of the magic. I also really liked it when we put wright on nelson, i think its an excellent strategy to guard scoring guards with taller swingmen for large portions of the game, if the matchup allows for it [so long as its not kobe]. It gives our pg a chance to catch his breath while remaining on the floor.
I can’t understand how you look at a basketball game. Almost everybody is criticizing Bargs for his poor rebounding, but have you all seen how many rebs is Bosh grabbing because AB boxes his man out? It’s a team effort! And to prove it, when Bosh has to defend on a true and strong center, he is often beaten, for a basket or for a rebound.
Bosh is a stat filler, takes too many shots, almost all jumpers falling backwards (which he scores just because he has a very good and soft stroke) and freezes the possession of the ball for too much time. Seconds matter, and he is the worst at letting the ball run smoothly thru the entire offense. He will never make his teammates better, certainly not like Kobe or Lebron.
Listen, shooting 10 and making 8 of them is better than 6 rebounds.
Here is the math,
50% is good. so making 5 of 10 is already good. making extra 3 means at least 6 rebounds.
and you make extra 3 means 3 less rebound opportunity for defensive rebound. so it is better than 6 rebounds.
Since AB is consistently making 8 out of 10, why ask that much for his rebounding?
I want to see more minutes of AB.
this podcast sucked…how do you qualify to be a reporter on this site? Jeez. A-Dub either has no idea what he’s talking about or he just does not have the communication tools to back up his opinions. He was horrible. Raps problems stem from penetration. jose gets beat so easily that no matter how fast your help is they’re gonna be late, which puts the d in chaos and out of position for defensive rebounds. Also the raps have no idea how to use a foul. If you see a easy basket coming, you have to foul.
I feel stupid for listening to this