Soooooooooo……….where’s that defense you been talking about?Caught this one on the PVR knowing the Raptors had lost. Was expecting a total crap performance and true to rumour, they started out like they finished in Memphis – spreading the cheeks wide open for unproven perimeter players. This time it was JJ Reddick (he of the Duke persuasion) and Ryan Anderson who I got laughed at for picking in my fantasy league. Things got better from there mostly because they couldn’t get any worse. They made a game of it because Orlando – who were missing Lewis, Carter and Pietrus – cooled off and we started moving the ball a little bit better. In the end it was a relatively close game with failure to defensive rebound and knock down a key open jumper serving as the final nail in the proverbial coffin.
Defense is a 48 minute thing and despite the long pre-season video sessions, coaching retreats, hand-holding and camp fire talks, the Raptors haven’t figured that out. This Orlando starting backcourt went 16-34 for 57 points. Ours had 18 on 6-12, do I really need to continue with this post? Problem was two-folds, the guards getting beat, mostly Jose Calderon in 1on1 and high screen situations and failure to recognize who you’re supposed to check in help and double situations. Go ahead and pull out any old recap from last year and you’ll get the gist of what I’m trying to get at. Unnecessary help was also another issue in that miserable first quarter where we gave up 36 points, DeRozan leaving Reddick in the corner to help out on Nelson’s opposite-side drive when there was already help there was the pinnacle of the phenomenon. Or how about going under a screen for Nelson even though he burned you for a three for doing the exact same thing on the last possession. Same stuff as last year, disappointing part is, as I already said, Triano’s talk that this team was of a defensive nature. But hey, maybe they need more time to gel but god damned if I’m to believe that leaving a guy who has already hit 4 threes wide open is a chemistry issue, more like a “I’m too f***ing dumb to understand what I’m supposed to do” issue.
The only added twist today was Howard who I’ve always felt we should never double. Not because I’m a believer of the “let him get his but control the rest” theory but because there’s no reason to put our fragile defense through the test of close-outs, rotations and all that painful stuff if you don’t have to. I think our post-defenders are actually pretty solid, Bargnani and Rasho are competent enough to slow him down on their own, no reason to play right in their wheelhouse and test Howard’s passing ability, which by the way is pretty good. It’s bad enough that we’re forced to help on Howard and are leaving prime three point shooters open, it’s even worse when it’s Marcin Gortat who we’re helping on. I mean, Triano’s got to get a handle on his “help and recover” doctrine. The Magic shot 7-11 threes in the first quarter and had 17 for the game, that really was all there is to it.
Ryan Anderson was torching Andrea Bargnani early and was one of the main reasons for the Magic building up a lead that turned out to be insurmountable. Bargnani was leaving him wide freaking open; our man gets a lot of credit thrown his way in terms of man defense but that’s only true when it comes to the post. He’s a good defender against bigger matchups in the block, mostly because he doesn’t leave his feet, plays straight and isn’t very reactionary. Asking him to D-up a more mobile guy similar to him has always been an issue and Anderson gave him a taste of that early. He got some measure of vengeance in the second half by hitting four straight threes for 26/5 (Anderson had 20/6) but the numbers don’t tell the story. If you’re one of those people who like to use his jockstrap as a face-mask, I suggest you skip the next little section, I’m about to point out three great Bargnani fourth quarter plays which were nullified immediately on the ensuing possession because of his poor defensive play:
- He hit a three to cut it to 7 at 10:17 but failed to get the rebound on the next possession leading to two FTs.
- He hits another three at 8:49 to cut it to 6 but failed to fight through a weak screen leaving Anderson open for another three at 8:33.
- Drives and lays it in against Anderson at 4:05 to cut it to 4 but completely forgets to box-out Anderson who glides in for the offensive rebound and the dunk. Bargnani flails his arms implying that it’s not his fault. No, it’s your fault.
I also hate it when a commentator (Leo) makes a comment like “Maybe that made basket will get him going on the defensive end as is the case for many offensive players”. That is not a ringing endorsement, in fact, it’s the exact opposite. If your offense if failing, you try to make up for it on defense, not become a non-factor. Bargnani might be the only NBA player who needs a working offensive game to be involved defensively. In a game where the Magic shot 44%, there were plenty of rebounds to be had, especially against Ryan Anderson, but he only managed to get 4. As the above three examples allude to, how good of an offensive game does he need to have in order for us to look past his defense?
Bosh later alluded to the the guards’ and Bargnani’s defense referring to the threes:
“I think we came out flat defensively. We didn’t do the things defensively that we’ve been talking about since the pre-season, which is have all contested shots and give them one rebound. They had a lot of wide-open threes and that’s what killed us”
We shot 54% and had 116 points in this game so you might think that our offense is functioning as efficiently as a Rexdale crackhouse, not so much the case. I’m noticing a LOT of isolation sets with four guys standing around. I know it’s a cliche analysis but that’s really what it was; Chris Bosh bailed us out again with a monster 35/16 game but other than three of those scores, they were all results of individual brilliance and great effort. We ran one fully successful instance of the pick ‘n roll in the first half which saw Calderon hook up Bosh for a layup but excluding that it was very flimsy stuff by the Raptors – 1on1 play, basic reads and play it by the ear type high screens..meh. Asking your players to “spread the floor” and “move the ball” is nice and all but lacks substance which is often needed to succeed late in games. The Magic are by no means defensive stalwarts, not without Lewis’ length and Pietrus’ lock-down defense; the Raptors had plenty of chances today to run some good stuff but instead chose again to give the ball to Jose and have him use pointless high screens that go nowhere and serve as a formality that lead into the “real” play. I wonder how much of this can be attributed to our coaching staff who don’t have any notable experience designing NBA-proven offensive sets.
Whatever the case, I don’t like quotes that explain a loss through sheer stats:
“It’s difficult when you lose and you shoot 54 per cent and you out-rebound them (38-37),” said Triano. “But they made three-point shots ….. It’s not like we didn’t, we shot 59 per cent from the three-point line (10-17) but they just took more of them.”
Turkoglu had a good offensive game with 19 points on 8-13 and we saw again why he was signed. Problem is that he goes without having a say in the game for far too long at a time and that’s because Triano doesn’t have a single play which isn’t either an isolation or a high screen by a big for Jose. Whenever Turkoglu has the ball in his hands at the start of the possession, good things happen. Period. That’s all the thinking and analysis required here and it should be enough for Triano to test him as the primary ball handler. Yes, it makes Jose a little less useful but what’s the sense in giving Calderon his seemingly guaranteed 30 minutes if he’s not producing consistent offense for his mates. Or did Colangelo write minutes played into Jose’s contract? It seems painfully obvious to me that Hedo’s the better playmaker so why not just stick with him.
Reason for that is that it would make Jose and Jack handle less of the ball, which means Triano would have to find more alternate uses for them. Jose needs to get his outside jumper going, we’re lacking three point shooting right now and are counting on him to spread the floor. In fact, we were hugely counting on him to cut the lead to 3 with 2:48 left to play but he clanged a wide open right wing jumper. That was a real killer. Jack had another bad game, four turnovers, not providing any sort of guidance to the offense and losing track of Barnes and Reddick on key threes. Problem with him is that he’s too short, at 6′3″ you’re never going to make an off guard think twice about shooting over you and unless you’re playing high-energy tight defense and have a system behind you that can provide help, he’ll be more of a liability than a strength on defense. Reddick blowing by him in two 1one1 situations had to make Colangelo swallow hard. His offensive game was inexcusable, I was expecting him to get past Nelson and bump into Orlando bigs all night long for fouls, you know, show that bull in you we were told you had.
While JJ Reddick was burning the ACC down with his shooting, not once did we test this bloke’s defense. He was checking DeMar DeRozan and Jarrett Jack, surely we could’ve made him defend and force Van Gundy into a sub? Belinelli only played 5 minutes whereas Jack played 20 and Jose 30, where is the sense in that. We keep hearing Colangelo tout Belinelli’s playmaking ability but haven’t seen it. We keep hearing (and I firmly believe this) his good defensive abilities but don’t call on them, and instead, for the second game in a row have him on the bench when a guard was hot. I don’t think Triano’s subs are planned or thought-out, he’s rolling dice.
That’s basically all I have to say. A terrible defensive start leading to a big Magic lead. Orlando cools off and we get back into the game but when we truly need a stop, we can’t get one or if we do get one, we concede the key offensive rebound. The hilarious part of the game for me was Devlin describing the “skirmish” between Bargnani and Barnes who were both calmer than two guys fishing on a Sunday afternoon. Devlin called it like this: UH OH…HERE’S BARGNANI!! AND HERE’S BARNES!! WATCH OUT NOW, BOSH GETTING IN THERE..WORDS BEING SAID…UH OH…HERE WE GO….OH SHIT..OH SHIT..OH SHIT..THAT’S WHAT YOU LIKE TO SEE!!!
I’m not giving up on this team and nor should you. There are some positives to be drawn from today, our floor spacing has been good, Bosh appears to be in contract-year form and Turkoglu is playing as advertised. If we can get a handle on what to do defensively to try and prevent guard abuse and install some sets that make players like Bargnani, Belinelli and Jack consistent threats in all four quarters, we’ll be okay. Yes, it’s painful to see questionable effort in the first quarter of a home game against the Eastern elite and that worries me more than anything, but let’s see how this team reacts to adversity. I’d say we’re right in the middle of our first test right now.
Chisholm has more positives to speak of.
107 Raps
I say scrap the “Protect the House” gimmick when your playing against a team with an athletic center and having outside shooters. Sometimes its better to just have their PF/Cs go for 2 rather than have a wide open 3.
im in australia rite now and its is literally impossible for me to watch a game (slow internet/no tv coverage) but form what ive been reading it seems like Triano better get his fucking act together and start using this team to the best of its ability.
Marco 5 mins? was did he get injured?
17 3s? oh my Jesus
I think theyll make the playoffs but this defense looks weak
I know, right? We only get ESPN and they play Dallas vs Spurs, Lakers Spurs, Miami lakers, boston lakers, how about some freaking variation. Instead of showing the raptors, I get to watch Phoenix vs minnesota. Fantastic
I think that watching this game would have left me furious after first quarter.
Asenalist says> “maybe they need more time to gel but god damned if I’m to believe that leaving a guy who has already hit 4 threes wide open is a chemistry issue, more like a “I’m too f***ing dumb to understand what I’m supposed to do” issue.”…………
dam bro couldn’t have summed it up any better…. I think El matador has serious ‘MENTAL’ issues
Getting abused by a team without 3 of its starter is simply fkn inexcusable!!!!!
Good read.
I agree that there should of been a sub for belinelli when the guards were failing to stop jameer. At least TRY something else? Wouldn’t it be great if coaches had to explain why they made substitutions, or if more was explained about the line-ups they chose? Something like an obligatory pre-game and post-game. Often times it does seem like he’s rolling dice.
Jack seems to be worthless – double the same for amir.
Antoine I’ve really liked so far. His effort is great to watch
Calderon is sucking the big one.
Its still early and I’m anxious to see if evans can have a positive impact out there on the floor.
Hedo looks really good and he’s beginning to be my favorite raptor.
Bargnani’s defense was TERRIBLE. How is possible that he’s been playing 4(?) years with this team and within this league and he still can’t do any basic defensive plays.
I really don’t get it though – I learned how to box out within a week. Okay applying it might take a little longer but THATS HIS JOB. I mean, whos teaching this guy? So frustrating to watch someone look so lost on the defensive end.
Nick , read again what Arse had to say about the starting backcourt on both teams , 57 points for the Magic guards vs 18 points for the Raptors guards. Andrea has nothing to do with how bad our perimeter defense is . So basically Andrea defense (he also had a +/- of zero) is not part of the big problem (and he outscored Superman 26 points to 24 on the offensive).
Andrea did leave Anderson open on a bunch of threes in the first quarter…a big reason why he got sat down in favor of rasho for a large chunk of the first quarter….it’s funny, just because people don’t like coming out to guard bargnani on the three point line, it doesn’t mean bargnani himself is used to guarding people out there either….i’m a huge bargnani fan, but these last two games, there were some key, key offensive rebounds given up, and that’s strictly bargnani’s responsibility….
if you read his quotes from a few days ago, he was saying how he played mainly as a 2 or a 3 when he was a teenager…so when people are saying he rebounds like a guard, well, he basically IS a guard…
his rebounding needs to improve, period. hopefully, he’s a late bloomer rebounding-wise, since center wasn’t his natural position, but we need him to make defensive rebounds at the very, very least. if he’s not grabbing at least 7 rebounds a game, and that’s a minimum, then it’s as if we have have a shooting guard playing center.
You are right about him not defending Anderson who was shooting from the 3 points line ( honestly I didn’t know he was the man Andrea was supposed to defend against) but in the end Anderson scored 20 points vs 26 for Andrea . However the two starting guards for the Magic scored 58 points to 18 for the two Raptors starting guards . I was looking too much at the points scored and I believe Superman was getting double coverage a lot which may explain why Andrea was not defending at the periphery. Agree that he is a very slow learner in rebounding.
I cannot understand this “slow learner” bit. Do the coaches not tell him why he/the team is getting torched or boxing out your man at the very least is an absolute reqt. of the job? Maybe Triano should try another tact….”Hey Bargs, forget about the scoring. I want you to spend all of your time defending and rebounding. If you get some garbage put backs, fine”. Maybe the guy is not a multi tasker yet and this offense-to-defense and vice versa is a tad much for the poor lad on a consistent basis.
i have to credit the orlando magic for the win. they are much better and much improved from last season. they have great depth, despite the injuries. looks like everyone on that team can shoot the 3. dwight howard is almost perfect from the line. the magic finally were able to use jj redick the way he should have been used. it was a total team effort for them. 3, 4 guys scored at leat 20. they will be a really top team this season.
their shooting just torched us. 3 points is greater than 2 points. we did play decently overall. if our team were what we were last season, we could have lost by 50. the defense was not bad, but not good, as the players were slow to rotate. but the key factor that contributed greatly to our loss was the free throw shooting. wtf, everyone was missing freethrows. i’m starting to think that the award the calderon got for his ft% is sort of a jinx, as he again missed freethrows. bosh played well not taking faggoty jumpshots and getting inside and drawing fouls, but he too missed free throws. he and dwight may have switched talents in free throw shooting. we missed 9 free throws. we lost by 9.
but overall, i’m still impressed with the team’s overall performance. bosh’s toughness is improving as he was getting at it with dwight. bargs is bargs, but he needs to get tips from reggie evans on how to rebound. may be hire charles oakley as an assistant.
antoine wright would be the pimp (great d, great energy for the team) and jaret jack would be the ho (dribbles too much, and cost us huge turnovers late in the game).
Arsenalist, great recap. I think you touched on so many excellent points here.
Some of those things were brought up in the chat yesterday. I’m assuming that Triano plays Calderon, Jack, and Turkoglu at the same time because the focus has been on instilling defensive principles as opposed to working on offensive sets, so he needs our primary playmakers to “create”… but I agree that there was just a whole bunch of isolation plays. And we all know that iso plays are not a long term solution for success. So hopefully at some point Triano and the rest of the coaching staff will work more on the offensive side of the floor – have they used that “zipper” play for Hedo at all?
But in all honesty, I would much prefer it if we continued to improve on our defense. I’d say losing a game with a final score of 68-59 would be easier to swallow than 125-116, even though it’s hard to imagine our offensively-gifted team only scoring 59 points.
I want to see how the team responds to these tough losses, and I am also looking forward to how Triano adjusts the lineups or substitution patterns.
I appreciate the last paragraph – it’s far too early to give up hope on this team. We just happened to have a kick ass season opener, which made a lot of people forget about the issue of integrating 9 new faces on the team and instead raised unrealistic expectations for high-calibre play so early in the season.
Wright should start now. Derozan should come in later, when he can be more assertive.
Belinelli must be the first backup for calderon.
I keep saying it, Wright should start. This guy has shown he can defend. What else do we need? I’m thinking Colangelo is having a say in minutes for the team which is why Derozan getting burned on 3s is not having his ass on the bench, he still plays on.
Arse, the boxscore function on the site doesn’t work…
and Calderon sucks ass, I can’t believe raptor fans have been so blind all this time just accepting his shitty play for the last couple of years.
All you Jose lovers, can you please explain to me why or how you can enjoy having this guy around in a raptors uniform?
No one is enjoying it, Let us hope he crank up his offense to make up for his lack of defense otherwise big problems (in winning games) will persist.
The clap defense from this guy is disgusting. This should not be coming from a guy at the top of the key in basketball positions. Ever seen Billups, Chris Paul, even Deron Williams broken down like Jose is? He’s a poor excuse for a PG. Get a veteran PG and daft a rookie PG in next years draft. It is obvious that we are having problems at that position like the SG one last year.
Hey Triano,
That End of Game Bargs/Bosh/Hedo/Jack/Calderon Lineup Sucks.
Put Wright in for Calderon or Jack.
And ball in Hedo’s hands. For godsake.
Amen.
Just an observation: Jose is becoming the scapegoat of the Raps’ fanbase. Whatever works for the masses.
Triano has to make changes: Wright should start (we cannot allow a Ray Allen or JJ Reddick to become hot), Derozan should back-up Hedo and Belinelli should back-up Wright. The experiment with Jose and Jack should stop. You don’t play length of contracts, you play to win.
I feel Triano is over-coaching right now. I guess he’s trying to compensate for the lack of chemistry. He has a lot to prove and thus there is a lot of pressure on his shoulders. I hope our problems are only an issue of timing and experience.
A last note: last season we started 3-0 and we know the final result. As long as we improve b-ball wise I’ll give this team 20 games to show they are better than the last year’s team.
“You don’t play length of contracts, you play to win.”
Great line, and I agree 100%. Both Jose and Jack are invisible as two-guards.
Jose is becoming the scapegoat of the Raps’ fanbase. Whatever works for the masses.
I don’t think he’s becming the scapegoat as much as his defensive liabilities are now coming to the forefront of mist fans attentions, which is about a year or two behind schedule.
He is a solid pg, good court vision, that can shoot the ball but he has ALWAYS lacked defensive intensity or defnsive abilities (whichever one you want) and on games like yesterday it clearly shows.
It’s interesting how when Calderon is playing well offensively there is ‘all-star’ talk (which he is not) from Colangelo and the fans but when his flaws show up there are excuses for him. He’s not the only reason why they are not playing poor defensively but he is a large part of it.
We need some defensive resistance at the point of attack and not let other 1’s break down the d right away. It affects the rest of the players on the court immediately, when you have to continually help.
Jose is not a number one point guard. I don’t know if anyone else notices, but the runs usually stop once Jose comes back on. Yeah he doesn’t turn the ball over — because he doesn’t do anything. He constantly stops the rush to the basket and can’t play defense at all. His contract is a waste and I said that the minute they gave it to him. We all got excited for a bit and his agent took advantage of that cloud. Every game has shown that he is not the elite point guard we want and wish him to be, he isn’t anything more than a solid back-up that won’t screw-up too much and play safe while the scorers and play makers are resting. Kind of like Rasho (who I have really liked this year).
The starting five should be – Andrea, Bosh, Wright, Turk and Jack. Let Turk run the offense once over half if there isn’t a break, and all will be good at that end. Defense is about intensity, effort and sacrifice. Jose wants everything to fall into his lap (like his assists to Bosh and Andrea), he doesn’t even have to work that hard to get his stats. If he ever does that dribble in a circle under the basket and back around again, I am going to call immigration. As well the feds will come if he ever stops a fast break with two guys going strong to the hoop from the wings. Jose’s brain at that time,”Is that Chris, no…. is it Andrea no…., where are you guys I need another uncreative assist to pad my stats when free-agency comes up.”
This team plays too much “help defense” in general. It’s been like that since Smitch showed up, and it looks like Triano wants them to keep helping each other. WHY?! It always results in open 3s. Always. Cleveland couldn’t capitalize because they don’t have the shooters, but Orlando certainly does. Same with Boston. You can protect the paint a lot better by keeping your man in check. If it goes into the paint, let Bargs/Bosh handle it.
Also, we need to stop running the Jose+Jack lineup. Give Jose 26-30 mpg, and Jack 18-22 mpg. The rest of the off-guard minutes should be going to Wright/Belinelli/DeRozan. DeRozan gets his 16 minutes that Triano seems to be sticking to (despite Wright’s better fit as a starter), Wright gets 12 min at SF and 12 min at SG, and Belinelli gets 20 min at SG unless his shot isn’t falling (in which case you give Wright/DeRozan those minutes).
Don’t forget about Weems at the 2 as well. His play in the preseason earned him at least a shot in the regular season. Triano should give him some PT and see how he does.
It may come down to using Weems in some games, and Belinelli in others (depending on matchups).
Also, I think that playing defence as a team is better than just 1-on-1 defence (especially when you have a good shot-blocker, like Howard or Dikembe Mutombo). So I don’t believe in NOT helping one another.
However, we need to improve in at least three areas to make this work:
1) Forcing your man to where the help will be (a system helps in knowing where the help will be).
2) Doing a better job of staying in front of your man (instead of getting broken down each and every play).
3) Doing a better job of rotating early and effectively (including not having 2+ guys helping — one guys should help and the rest should rotate to get out to shooter).
I also think that, against great shooting teams, we should go fairly hard at shooters to force them to move from their sweet-spot (especially guys like Reddick, who are better spot-up shooters than slashers or pull-up shooters).
If our rotation is tight and effective (so that our D recovers quickly), it is better to push pure shooters out of the 3pt line (even if the guy then beats you off the dribble), because someone will help.
Bottom line: anything is better than letting teams keep up this 3pt barrage that is either, A) letting them back into games (e.g., Cleveland), or B) giving them an insurmountable lead (e.g., Orlando).
Bargs defense was spotty, but come the second half when he asserted himself he was something else.
When else will Dwight Howard go 14-16 from the line??? Seems to only happen against the Raptors…. Much like Reddick (or any player) having a career game vs. the raptors….. Just bad luck….
Again a game that comes down to 1-2 shots late in the game (Calderon missing a wide open 3) and Orlando making their 3’s…..
Calderon has to improve. Right now his play is atrocious….
Also would be nice to get a call or two from the refs once in a blue moon. Not like Wednesday vs. Cleveland, but would be nice if we get not just an obvious call, but a chintzy call every once in a while.
This team will need a few months to build its foundation defensively and expand on it. Right now, we’re like a new team of construction workers trying to build a skyrise without having dug deep to build a strong base. Triano’s defensive system has its flaws, but i believe in it working over the long haul.
Offensively, we need to put the ball in Hedo’s hands more often. Jose makes things happen offensively when he doesn’t see the ball for a posession or two. Constantly having to create offensively is not Jose’s forte.
We have the tools to slowly build a winning franchise for years to come.
Ps. Demar Derozan is similar but more advanced than T-Mac in his rookie year with the raps.
and once jose finds his stroke, I think everything will work out fine when he is off the ball late in games
O.K. guys after a day of being to mad to type, i think we need to change the starting line-up and go big!
Hedo at 1 – he’s proven he is the better decision maker, pentrates better, better shooter and better defender.
Demar at 2 – is anyone else as impressed as i am with this kid, when he is on the floor good things happen. Not sure why he is not getting more PT, Wright is disapointing so far, not shutting folks down the way i thought, same goes for Jack.
Amir at 3 – again good things happen when he is our, once Evans is back he can play three.
Bosh and Bargs.
Have you been watching Amir these past 3 games?
I agree. Wow, what a disappointment that guy has been. Starting to think that Colangelo got boned on the Delfino/Ukic for Johnson/Weems trade. Johnson is Jerome Moiso-like. Bad. We need Reggie, Reggie, Reggie …
That trade was made for the contracts.
Sorry, would prefer Wright at 2. Don’t know why u guys are high on the Derozan guy? and please don’t bring Amir into the discussion(the guy just plain sucks, losing your starting position to Kwame Brown is enough proof). The way out especially for Bargs if you guys want him as a center is to get a big man coach for him. A center in the NBA averages at least 7 rebounds per game not the 5 that Bargs has. Any wonder why thi team is labeled as soft. Bosh is upping his rebound stats(should be 12-13 per game this year) while your center is still having the same 5rebounds per game, something is wrong.
Hedo would get DESTROYED by PGs in this league, especially the ones that Jose has trouble with.
It would make more sense to say:
PG: Jack
SG: Wright
SF: Hedo
PF: Bosh
C: Bargs
Then let Hedo play point forward. In fact, I believe that should be our line-up at the end of games. You have Jack and Wright who can slash (with decent jumpers), and you have Hedo, Bosh, and Bargs as primary offensive weapons (at least one of them should be hot at any given moment).
When a team rains 3’s on you all game, contested or not, D.Howard making almost all his FT attempts, and the Raps missing there’s..there is no way you will win the game
Think of it like this : If Orlando just misses a couple of their 3’s, D.Howard hits only 50% of his free throws like he should – we win this game.
Our D did suck though and rotations were slow, but this can and will be worked on I’m sure.
Pretty much bang on…. Has Howard ever gone 14-16 from the line? Add to that they made the 3’s when they needed to or got the offensive rebound.
Yes Orlando missing 3 regulars, but their replacements had spectacular games and hit shot after shot….
Just bad luck, which we seem to have in spades….
Excuses made in hindsight. If that, if this…that’s all I heard last year. You think if Howard went 0-6 his first FTs they’d be going to him knowing we’d foul? No, the Magic may look like they’re pretty simple to figure but they’re more complex than what they’re given credit for. They have have drive ‘n kick abilities, three-point shooting, inside presence, a running game, and very good individual one-on-one scoring ability. Yesterday they were firing on one cylinder missing three players and beat us.
The main positive to be taken from this are Bosh’s individual play and Turkoglu’s success whenever he decides to assert himself. The offense is OK through three quarters, not sure about the clutch.
The offence is OK? I dunno about that. We scored a lot of points, but Orlando did not have its better defenders out there except for Howard and Jameer.
I mean, the points we scored have been based on either a perimeter pass to a semi-open shooter (Bargnani) or one-on-one efforts which may or may not involve a semi-successful PNR or PNP. Against a healthy Orlando, or Boston this offence would quickly be shut down.
In contrast to some, I see a lot of good things happening on D. We played sloppy this game, but at least there is a plan. A plan on D is more than I can say for what I am seeing on O.
I meant we can get away with having no plays and making reads through three quarters but in the fourth the ball game changes and that’s where coaches earn their money. That was one of Mitchell’s main failings and Triano hasn’t shown anything special either. But it’s obviously too early for him.
We can get away with it as long as Bosh and Bargnani are shooting 50% and creating plays for themselves. The flipside is I think that our lack of plays is also the reason why Jack and Jose are on the floor together. Triano figures that with 3 creators out there, including Turk, they will be able to read the defence and make something happen. But, I think everyone is in agreement that Jack needs to be a point guard, and not an off-guard.
they might’ve hit 17 threes, but almost all of them were uncontested, and coming after swinging the ball around. As in, they weren’t lucky to hit those threes, any NBA team (well maybe not any…) would’ve hit 17 threes if they were all taken as open as they were…if we play a team, and their main strength is 3 point shooting, and we lose because they shot a bunch of 3 pointers, we can’t say that there was nothing we could’ve done about their 3 points shots falling…we should’ve known what was coming…
and fouling howard is a good option if it’s between that and an easy 2 points. but remember that fouling howard is still not as good as playing good defense and not fouling. sure he made more free throw than expected, but you can’t expect to win by expecting other players to miss.
andrea needs to foul harder. he’s already constantly in foul trouble, why not make it worth it at least?
Dudes…you can buy league pass for the iPhone!?!? How nuts is that?
I was driving through Iowa while watching the game. And I’ll be watching the replay again en route to Denver.
God bless technology.
I will say that bargnani was/has been pure crap on defense/rebounding….but since he has shored up his offensive game BIG TIME, I have to believe he’s going to take a few more games from a confidence level to know it’s not a fluke, and then start to really click/focus on what he needs to do on defense. He has too. He and bosh are just too good to be offset by his poor defense.
I am still very much of the belief that this team will eventually gel and play more dominant on both sides of the ball than any raptors team in recent past.
I thought patience was the key to the start of the season? I presume it will take time for them to achieve the consistency they want at both the offensive and defensive end.
I love Jose and I think you guys are too hard on him defensively. He completely embarrassed Nelson on a couple of occasions on the offensive end. That’s what point guards do to each other in this league.
What bugs me about Jose is that he hangs on to ball way too long, something we were supposed to change this year. On at least three to four occasions I found myself calmly asking the television “why the fuck aren’t you passing the ball to Hedo, he’s standing there wide open,” like at the end of the first quarter with the shot clock off. Wasn’t Hedo brought in primarily to be our go-to guy in the crunch?
I think everyone here needs to get off Jose’s dick…we need the guy to be successful period. Yes, Jameer went off on him…but thats not why we lost the game, we expect jameer and howard to go off…we lost because Anderson/Redick went off…open 3 after open 3 for two replacement starters; I don’t think the coaching staff was prepared for the 3 point proficiency from those bench players. They probably thought they lucked out with 3 Orlando starters missing and could focus more energy on Howard…this loss sits squarely on Triano’s shoulders, he was way too slow in adjusting his defense. This protect my house bull shit has limitations, and Triano needs to realize when this strategy needs to be adjusted before we get hammered with 3’s.
the third point about bargs was wrong. it was jacks fault that anderson got that redound and dunk. there was a pick n roll that andrea helped on and jack just stood there. the other 2 points were on the money. oh, and triano is a bad coach…period.
Great Analysis. I agree with most of you that Hedo is not involved in the game as much as a 10 million dollar man should be. There were many moments that he was wide open but Jose did not get him the ball.
One thing that is really frustrating to me is when Leo says” You can talk about defence as much as you want, coachs can talk about it …. but if player is unwillng to do it, then there is nothing u can do !!!”.
My answer is WTF ?? We have 9 new players and no one is willing !!! Looking at our team for last 4 years, we had over 25 different players and no one was willing to play defence !!!
Why the hell we are not benching the SOBs who do not want to play defence ??!!!
I just don’t get it.
Start jack point run the offense through Turk. You get better defense from Jack and keep the ball out of his hands to limit the turnovers. Everytime Bargnani’s man gets a rebound he shouldn’t have, call a time out. Have everyone else sit down and you meet him at centre court and chew him a strip for allowing it to happen. Waste every time out if you have to – it’ll pay dividends by the next game I promise..
Great article. I said some time ago, that there was NOTHING about Ivaroni’s presence that would produce better defense, but who would have thought it could possibly have been worse than before he got here.. Wow, 125 points for a team missing three starters..
Jose is a way better spot-up shooter than Jack, especially from three, he is just rusty now. I’m fine with running the sets through Turk, but having Calderon off the ball is the best scenario
This PG controversy stuff after game 3 is horseshit.
If we were simply talking about these three games, you “controversy” comment might be valid. Calderone, even healthy, has had questionable defence for as long as anyone can remember.
fun with numbers:
15. total fouls this season for bargnani.
15. total rebounds this season for bargnani.
can he keep it up?
sweeeeet. currently tied for 31st in rebounding…among centres. of course, he’s played more minutes (by far) than any of the guys around him…so, it’s actually even less impressive (and you thought that wasn’t possible…har!).
but hey, he caught fire in the 3rd, and even looked interested in playing for a while. so it’s all good.
i wonder – would anyone here who plays ball actually enjoy having him as a teammate? he only seems motivated when his shot’s falling, he’s hit or miss game to game, and despite the fact we know he has excellent passing skills, they’re on display so infrequently i’m beginning to wonder if he realizes he actually has teammates when he gets the ball. for some reason, he’s concluded that the only way he can contribute is by scoring, and that’s clearly his focus on nearly every possession.
i play with a guy who reminds me of VL…he’s a chucker. you know with 95% certainty that if he touches the ball on offense, he’s gonna fire up a shot. he’s almost always the last guy back on D, the first guy to leak-out on a shot, and ventures in the key to rebound or defend every 15 minutes or so. he’s there for one reason – to get his. i’m not suggesting he (bargs) is that guy (yet), but he’s getting closer. i love hearing from the fanboys about how he had a ‘great’ game – LOOK AT ALL THOSE POINTS!! faaaantastic.
i wonder – would anyone here who plays ball actually enjoy having him as a teammate?
If he doesn’t board, no I wouldn’t. I would probably clap him upside his head for not being more physical or at least for not keeping his man from grabbing boards.
Yertu, I hear ya. Me and A-Dub were talking about this for like two hours. It’s very hard to stomach some of his play and basically we need him to be scoring at a very high efficiency for it to be worthwhile and I’m not even talking about just rebounding. Not sure what the solution is, I think Triano needs to light a fire underneath him so he adds more dimensions to his game. I think the scoring is coming around (which is a big part) but when you step back and look at the big picture, you see that for the minutes he plays, he should be doing more.
Yertu, I have to agree with your analysis re: Bargs. When he first came into the league, and as his offensive game progressed, he showed a lot of promise in the passing department. Him and Bosh connected on numerous high/low feeds to each other. And when the help came, Bargs knew how to find shooters. But now, he has regressed to shooting everytime he gets the ball. Part of the reason is that he is really good at making things happen. But I once beleived we would eventually be able to run the offence through him in the post with his excellent passing skills. Now, not so much
the thing is, he scores SO EASILY, that i wish he actually shot more, to tell you the truth. at this point, he might have to average 30+ a game if he’s going to make up for his rebounding deficiency, and that goal actually might be more realistic than 8 boards a game, at the rate he’s going…. it would be good if he passed more, because he has good passing instincts, but who is he going to pass to? if anything, he needs to have more of a post game (or at least use it) and learn to finish in traffic, (and of course, defense and rebounding)…
VL!!! Isn’t it time we stop with the schoolyard crap. Listen Yertu, how about everytime I respond to one of your posts I refer to you as SH (shithead). If the shoe fits right.
lol. that’s pretty good, though i’m sure you can do better. you’re free to do whatever you please.
I am really trying hard to like VL this year. I really am. I am still hoping that we will all be laughing at how much of a steal he is (contract-wise).
I love watching him on O, passing or not, but he’s cringeworthy on D. Its a fact.
Nobody has mentioned this but Bosh got burned on at least two of Anderson’s 3 pointers – let’s share the blame fairly.
There’s way too much tunnel vision on this site to do that.
No there’s not, Bosh was assigned enough blame for Randolph’s big game. You can’t ask Bosh to cover Howard in the post and then also ask him to rotate out to a three-point shooter. Just because he was the closest to the three point shooter doesn’t mean it was his responsibility to contest the shot. I’m a HUGE Bosh critic but even I have to cut him some slack.
When you are guarding a dominant big man, your number one concern is the paint and if he gravitates towards that you can’t blame him for it. Anderson’s threes were ridiculously wide open and they were not Bosh’s fault. The worst you can say about Bosh in those situations is that he was guilty of not rotating out but remember that there shouldn’t be a need to leave Anderson open in the first place.
“but remember that there shouldn’t be a need to leave Anderson open in the first place. ”
There is in our defensive scheme that has the perimeter guys constantly collapsing into the middle to help. JUST STAY ON THE FREAKIN’ PERIMETER!
When Bargs was on Howard, Bosh was guarding Anderson…
Bargnani was on Howard for maybe two or three plays at the most. No point debating this point back and forth, it’s safe to say Anderson got most of his points against Bargnani, not Bosh. I’ve pointed out three fourth quarter instances in the post already. Not sure where you’re going with, are you looking for us to say “No, Bargnani did an OK job on Anderson and it was Bosh who screwed up more”. Not gonna happen.
For the first 9:48 of the game, Bargs was on Howard and Bosh was on Anderson (PF v. PF). Anderson went 3/4 from 3 in that stretch. I’m not going anywhere with this – the perimeter defense, including Bosh was poor, ok?
I can’t validate or invalidate that because I deleted the recording. So 3 of Anderson’s FG were against Bosh and 4 against Bargnani? As you said, let’s just agree that the perimeter D was poor.
Arse did you watch the game?
Yeah, I’m wondering the same thing…Anderson only made 5 three’s, not 7. I’m also wondering how many of the other commenters watched the game. I have watched the game several times. Most of the three’s were made in transition, high screen n’ roll, off loose balls/long rebounds not collapsing around Howard. Don’t beleive me…watch it again. Not that this is any excuse…getting lit up by Redick for 27 pts is embarrassing, but everyone seems to be placing all the blame on the shoulders of Bargnani or Jose. We need to improve our D no doubt but pretty much every team in the league has to do the same. OJ Mayo lit up Denver for 40pts while hitting 4 three’s and Memphis scored 123 pts against one of the top defensive teams in the league. If defense is all about effort, explain why there are only a handful of teams that play solid D…Boston,Houston,Denver,Spurs,Magic(even though they got torched for 116 pts against the Raps) and the Cavs(last year).
Not that this completely invalidates your point (it doesn’t), but there was one play near the end of the game when we were getting close to a tie, Anderson had the ball at the three point line with Bosh covering.
Anderson had time to think about a shot, Bosh didn’t feel like getting any closer than the 8 feet or so he was away from Anderson (as if Anderson was going to blow by him), and Anderson buried the 3.
Way to know your opponent…
Awesome Recap Arsenalist,
You’ve pretty much touched base with everything that bothered me in the game. Reddick had so many open 3’s in the corner it was embarassing. he exposed DeDe bigtime. The heartbreaker was Jose in the corner dribbling in from the 3pt line drawing his defender to bosh, passing it to him.. then moving back for the wide open 3. that play pretty much sealed the coffin. He has to be aggresive offensively and hes gotta hit those shats. Jameer schooled him hard. I’m impressed with Antoine wright because he played great. He’s as advertised and IMO is our version of Pietrus. JT should have subbed him in earlier after 2 wide open 3s by reddick to cool him off. i’m guessing he wanted to leave DeDe in there to bitch at him today about it through videos in the meeting room, learning by playing through mistakes just like bargs.
Bargs got us back into it with some sizzling shooting. But, man he has to track down those balls to bring his game to the next level. however, hes still improving and i’d take improving bargnani>bustnani anyday.
Bosh, Great game.
JT made the right play to not play Howard straight-up. Did you see him at the line? guy was on fire man. I think hes like a 50-60 percent shooter at the line but yesterday he got like 10+ straight. if we were to 1v1 it would have elimated a lot of the 3s. but our bigs would have been in foul trouble and we needed bargs and boshs offensive production. JT was right, they just made more 3s.. with 3 starters out its the safer way. either way like you said, he’s rolling the dice.
I think were on the right path tho. the raps and the fans just need to take it one game at a time.. we’ll get this sorted out. JT is not bad…
In the NBA the difference between a clean look and a contested look is a fraction of a second, NBA players will make you pay the price if you give them consistent clean looks ………. does this team have enough perimeter quickness? If it doesn’t all the strategies in the world aren’t going to help.
Agreed…and that is why teams score 100 points a game and not 50.
We should have enough perimeter quickness. Wasn’t that the whole point of this offseason? (besides Hedo). Jack, Wright, DeRozen and Belinelli all should be quick enough to get to shooters.
Maybe we need to change the rotation up a bit. Get those guys some more minutes. The O will suffer but the D will get much better.
Can someone tell me why?
Our biggest of season free agent signing…Mr.Fourth Quarter shares the closing minutes of the game with two other distributors !!!!
Whats with that? and why the Jose look offs!!!give the guy the fuc… ball,thats why he was brought in.
If you havent come to the realisation that Bargs unfortunatly was and will always be inconsistent you havent watched enough games.Bargs is a roller coaster and always will be.
Out of shape,no chemistry,give me a break…Bosh doesn’t seem to have a problem ,and thats after missing part of training camp !!!
In the post game after Memphis, Bosh was asked if there is any talking on defense. Bosh answered that sometimes there is but not enough. He was then asked if someone needs to step up and do more talking when the effort isn’t there (hint, hint). I got the impression from his response that he’s not quite at the point yet where he’s willing to chew peopple out. Personally, I’d like to see him in anyone’s face who’s not bringing it. Just like he used to do with Moon. For some reason, that’s the only guy he ever felt inclined to bark at. Against Orlando it was the boos raining down that seemed to wake them up. Bosh needs to step up before it gets to that point. Or have Wright start and let him hold people accountable. You can’t say he doesn’t lead by example.
But he was just feeling it out on Moon, who never mattered anyways. And the team is just not worth it at this point, so I agree that it not time yet. If they just stop putting two PG out together and get the ball to Hedo more, this team will beet most. When we get to where we have a shot at winning a real game, Bosh will find it. It’s a long season. And he has been magnificent.
My lovable basset hound puppy would have barked at Moon. Talk about your easiest of targets.
D is a team problem, not an individual problem. Everyone needs to step up.
“If you’re one of those people who like to use his jockstrap as a face-mask … “ Hahahahaha!. That was funny. (Prick.)
Does everyone seem to forget that Orlando went to the finals last year? That they did so on the strength of Howard inside and amazing 3 point shooters surrounding him?
It bothers me that everyone is killing Triano for his poor coaching in allowing us to get beat in the way that Orlando took Cleveland to school last year in the playoffs. Maybe Orlando is just that good and there is very little that coaching can do to stop them. Only team that could was the Lakers (obviously) and they had the proper defensive ingredients to stop them which consists of long, athletic, capable man-to-man defenders. I’m thinking along the lines of kobe, ariza, odom, gasol and bynum.
The season has 82 games, its early, we have 9 new faces, we lost one game to a phenomenal team. The raps are great offensively and learning defensively. If Triano is a good coach, then he will be able to use this game as a learning tool for himself and his players.
Very true.
Ps. Like ur name
pretty sure no one’s forgotten that.
but, uh, did you forget that the magic were without 3 of their top 5 players? that, uh, maybe a team playing without rashard fucking lewis, vince fucking carter & mikael fucking pietrus shouldn’t put up 126 fucking points.
As disappointed as I am, I thought we played 30 minutes of decent-to-good defence (and decent offense).
However, when a team plays like garbage for the first 18 minutes of a game, any other effort during the game will probably just redeem the team, as players will be too physically spent to close out the game with a win.
The fact that we were facing a depleted Orlando in Toronto just shows how far we are from being contenders at this point.
The (slight) optimist in me says: at least our record is exactly what I would have expected right now. Unfortunately, I was hoping to pick up a few games we had no business winning in November. That is looking virtually impossible at this point.
No shame losing to Orlando – but without 3 key players? I really thought Raptors would jump on them knowing that they are missing those 3 guys. It is concerning.
The NBA is shaking down into A, B, C level teams. We know the top teams have gotten stronger this season, while the remainder of the teams are mired at the B and C levels. It’s not certain where the Raptors will finally settle out, but there is one thing for certain … Bosh is working his butt off to show himself to be a max money player … as I predicted.
I would like to see Demar Derozan getting more involved in the offense because he looks like an entertaining up and coming performer. Also let’s hope that those on the injury list heal and get into the game.
i agree about demar. he seems to be exciting,and he also seems to be clutch. i wonder what his fg% is on the season so far because im pretty hes hit more than hes missed. not to mention that hes fearless and has been crashong the boards really hard. he also blocked shaq!!! nobody has mentioned that yet
Demar is being put into a ‘no pressure’ situation by Triano to give him some significant playing time. Other teams won’t be guarding him as a rookie, so that gives him more opportunity to rebound and score. I think he could score 15 points easily if included in the offense, and he makes a max effort.
Speaking of max effort, I’m really impressed with Bosh’s rebounding numbers, particularly on offense. The guy not only trying to show himself to be a NBA max player, he is trying to lead by example with a lot of work under the boards. This additional effort may be fatiguing and taking away from his one-on-one mid-range jump shooting … although he has potted several 3’s …!!!!
Perhaps what we are witnessing is a Raptor team with one or two prime players, and the rest are just sub-standard and not of NBA quality. Bosh should not be expected to ‘lead’ a deficient bunch of players like that.
Also, Bosh should not be considered a ‘game changer’ and leading the team in the 4th quarter because …. that’s the job of those who are mostly handling the ball and facing the basket on offense … guys like Bargs, Hedo, and the guards. When you play with your back to the basket, all you can really provide is a shitload of points throughout the game, but not in the final seconds because you are waiting for a pass that may or may not come to put you in a good position to score.
Kobe, LeBron, Wade, are game closers because they are handling the ball and facing the basket … so obvious.
(p.s. the win over the Cavs messed up my two month prediction of 3-30 .. so I will have to up that to 4-29 .. oh well …)
i dont see bosh getting himself in an early fatigue situation again. the difference between this year and last year is sam mitchell was playing him like 44 min a game. what is he at now 38-40.
PS Raps are beating the pistons!
You had me until…so obvious.
Since when does Bosh play with his back to the basket?
Demar does need more touches because he’s shown that he is fearless in attacking the basket and drawing fouls. Nothing cures a stagnant offence better than getting to the line.
Belinelli has looked really unimpressive.
Devlin’s calling Demar Double D… really creative!
Devlin is an irritating announcer. He just seems so contrived most of the time.
He sounds professional, and describes plays as they happen. Much better than the cartoonish sounding wired minded good guy he replaced!
It’s just that Devlin’s really creative in nicknames, I hear a rumour that he’s gonna nickname Andrea the Italian Stallion, same with Marco.
Devlin: CB4 kicks it out to Italian Stallion (AB)… swings it to Italian Stallion (Marco)… drives the lane, ball squirts loose…
Double D with the dunk Air Canada style!!!
I agree 100% with this comment. His play by play is annoying and he doesn’t add anything to the game. Yuck! Surely there is somebody better out there than this boring drone!
I watched the OKC game last night, the color guy for OKC cant even speak without stumbling over his words, let alone a full coherent sentence.
he should be SpiDErman.
I dont remember the other play you were referring to, but on this specific play you are wrong.
“Drives and lays it in against Anderson at 4:05 to cut it to 4 but completely forgets to box-out Anderson who glides in for the offensive rebound and the dunk. Bargnani flails his arms implying that it’s not his fault. No, it’s your fault.”
He was boxing out Howard, Bosh left Anderson to try and block the shot, and the PG who was beat off the dribble did not step in and cover Bosh’s man. If he switched to Anderson, Howard would have been wide open. He wasnt the problem, it was our crappy perimeter D.
Just thought I’d say exactly what I thought of the game, it can be summed up in 1 “word”.
ARGH
I watched the game twice – yes, I’m a sadist – and Bargs is taking too much blame for Anderson going off from the 3 pt line. Bosh needs to be held accountable for his share (and poor rotations/switches when both Bosh and Bargs were forced to help were also to blame).
Overall, I agree with the sentiment that Triano made some poor line-up decisions late, particularly with the Jackerone combo. Antoine Wright needs to be in there regardless of how poor of an offensive player he is. If offense was a concern, at least give Bellinelli a chance.
They were 4 points down when “Jackerone” started playing – Neither plays the 2 well and Jack was having a far worse game than Jose.
This combination didn’t work in preseason and still doesn’t!
It cost them the game in Memphis and cost them a chance to close the gap in this one!
And Jose was a +- of Zero for the game. The team was effective with him at the PG, despite Nelson’s big game.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in that particular stat. The fact that his +- was dead even just goes to show how skewed that stat can be.
I don’t care what his +- says, he had a terrible game on the defensive end.
if the team is + collectively, we win. what’s the problem?
adjust +/- to account for the +/- of the other guys on the floor and you’ve got it nailed.
The + – does tell one tale.
If Jack and the second unit don’t go -14 to start the 2nd quarter, the Raps win this game!
WTF against Bargnani defense. Should be a statistic as well on boxing out your opponent not only rebounds. Just try to give him more touches in offense because 8/12 with 4/5 from 3 it means he is not considered
WTF
Don’t worry. A win on Wednesday and we’ll all feel better about ourselves.