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2-6. Your pre-season play isn’t exactly indicative of what you might do in the regular season but it still speaks to the team’s strengths and weaknesses. Last year we finished pre-season 4-4 but started off the campaign winning three straight, so it’s not inconceivable that the Raptors will have something up their sleeves, even though we haven’t caught a glimpse of it yet. If you’re not at the very least concerned about the team then you are wildly optimistic. As much as we’ve used the injury and ‘nine new players’ crutch the last month, it’s abundantly clear that there are many questions to be asked of this roster, which on paper looks like it might do some damage but has a ways to go before it can realize the potential credited to it.
Last night’s loss in Sioux Falls against a Minnesota team missing Kevin Love and Al Jefferson was disappointing, especially once you consider that our starters played heavy minutes. Bosh with 36, Calderon with 39, Bargnani fouling out after 28. Turkoglu’s minor injury limited him to only 14 minutes but we shouldn’t need him to beat this Minny team given that we were actually trying to win, as suggested by Bosh a couple days ago. Wing production seems to be the issue once again, but this time it’s a different flavor of the problem.
As a team we’re shooting 24% from three-point range with Calderon being the only perimeter playing shooting higher than 27%. For a team with a point forward who can create for shooters, 3-point shooting becomes a critical component of the offense. Last year’s Magic team with Turkoglu at the helm had success by shooting 38% from three, they were also safe in the knowledge that they had the third best rebounding team to clean the misses up. The Raptors’ rebounding has been suspect in the pre-season (20th in the league, went up because of yesterday’s performance) but that could be written off to Bosh and Evans missing a chunk of time.
Marco Belinelli has been a huge disappointment. His play should be a cause for concern and helping him try to find a niche on the team should be a priority for Triano for the next three days. You could convince me that Bosh-Bargnani-Turkoglu-Calderon-DeRozan are a good enough starting five, but after that the only person who you could say has shown that he’s a regular rotation player is Jack. In other words, we can’t even pick out a 7-man rotation at this point. Colangelo sought Belinelli for his scoring and playmaking and although the latter showed glimpses of his passing ability and drives, he also showed us how inconsistent and undisciplined he can be in exactly those areas. I’m not expecting much from Wright and those who are banking on him to “fix” anything are out to lunch. He’s a situational defender, nothing more. He could help us out in late-game situations but counting on him to provide a punch during normal business hours is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Reggie Evans going down hurt the team more than Wright’s injury, he was playing as advertised by setting a good tone in those early games and giving Amir Johnson a run for his money. Since Rasho has been so bad, Johnson is now the first option as the backup PF, which I’m not sure is a good thing. Bosh went to task on the depleted T-Wolves frontline last night but Johnson – who was the first big off the bench – went 0-3 with 3 turnovers in 12 minutes. It’s not a performance that can fill anyone with confidence and you have to wonder just how he’s going to deal with bulkier big men on disciplined defensive teams (ahem Shaq, Varejao, Ilgauskas). So far he’s shown that he can be a great fit in an up-tempo style because he can beat you up and down the floor. His short-minutes play has been questionable and it’s largely because he’s very easy to defend since his mid-range jumper has left him. He also can’t seem to gain rebounding position and is often found reaching over the top of his man, hence the fouls.
Bargnani’s pre-season has been up and down just like his career. A great game against a good team followed by a bad one against a bad team. Make sense of that if you can, nobody’s doubting his tools or his skills but this pre-season failed to even touch on the question of whether he can put it together for 82 games. We’ll be entering opening night asking the same questions of him as last year – early fouls, consistent shooting, will the scoring make-up for the rebounding…and so forth. Bosh has looked better and better with each game, I saw the second Boston game again and I have to say that he looked utterly fatigued. He didn’t react to the rebounds, didn’t pay attention to the screens and looked a step slow. According the two people I talked to who were at the T-Wolves game, Bosh looked as agile as ever and scored from all angles. I know it’s against a Minny team without their two main big men, but if you’re evaluating conditioning he apparently passed with flying colors.
Jonny Flynn lit up Jose Calderon. No other way of putting it, I’m hoping it’s because Jose played 39 minutes which is too much for him on any given day. In fact, he shouldn’t be doing anything for 39 minutes. His backup suffered another poor shooting night and looking at his shot chart you can make out that he’s sticking to the perimeter. Still, not concerned about the PG spot, Jose looks fresher and Jack looks like he can run an offense as long as you’re not asking him to be the main scorer (that’s why we need Belinelli to step up).
The end of the bench is just that, the end of the bench. My man Q has been terrible and is playing like a ball-hog, Patrick O’Bryant still hasn’t jumped and Marcus Banks may as well be the mascot. The pleasant surprise has been Sonny Weems who at this point is making a case for himself as the best wing player after Turkoglu and DeRozan. That says a lot. There’s a lot more gelling to be done on the Raptors and the only improvements we’ve seen is when analyzing individual play of players like Calderon, Bosh and DeRozan, as a team we’re functioning a lot like we did against Philly in Hamilton. I understand defense takes some time to come into place but shouldn’t a full pre-season be enough to get a glimpse of what Triano’s trying to do? Positively thinking, the aspect of our defense that I am pleased with is that we have more athletic defenders this year so you’re not seeing nearly as much 1-on-1 breakdown as last year, there’s some comfort to be taken from that. If they can just put forth an honest effort, we’ll already be better than last year. I also picked out four stats that I’d keep my eye on this year.
Let me remind you of the schedule coming up: Cleveland, @Memphis, Orlando, Detroit, @New Orleans, Dallas, @San Antonio, Chicago, @Lakers, @Phoenix, @Denver and @Utah. It is not inconceivable to think that this team will start the year 2-10. I’d settle for a 5-7.
81 Raps
Antoine Wright will stabilize some of the issues on the wing if he’s only being counted on for 15-20 mins a night. Same for Belinelli once he settles down… and he will.
We can’t beat good teams without Turk but last night’s game seems ominous… hopefully he’s OK and hopefully Bargs can put it together. One thing I would love to know is who grabs contested rebounds. I see almost every Raptor grab a lot more rebounds between 2 Raptors than Bargs does… Obviously we shouldn’t hold that against Bargs… Is there a stat that tracks constested rebounds?
Key Raptor players are cripples going into the regular season .. and the team has not gelled whatsoever because their chemistry is still not good.
Bosh versus Bargs .. Jose versus Jack .. Demar versus Marco versus Weems versus Antoine .. Hedo versus himself …. absolutely zero chemistry to date … so obvious.
At least BC can blame it on the coach … again …!!!!
A ankle tweak that Hedo played on in the 2nd quarter isn’t a “cripple”.
Aside from Reggie – who else is going to miss opening night?
Zero chemistry – have you even been to a game yet this (pre)season?
FAQ, it’s not the coaches or the GM’s fault. Until this team has a big man with low post presence and gets a lot of rebounds ala Biedrins or Okafor with a litter of tested three point shooters like Matt Caroll, Sasha Vujacic or Jordan Farmar and a tested coach like Flip Saunders, this team is going no where. I think officially, the Bosh experiment is over.Trade to the Golden State warriors for Biedrins and Randolph or Stephen Jackson.Sell trade picks, waive some players and get tested 3pt shooters as above and get a tested coach who is respected and has been in the league long enough as above. It seems this players have no desire to win – they remind me of the same S**t different toilet analogy just like last years players.Until then, this team is going no where.
When have any of Biedrins, Okafor, Carroll, Vujacic or Farmar ever been a key piece of a great team?
I’ll answer for you: NEVER!
We don’t want any of them.
I swear this whole Golden State trade bullshit is just a clever plot by GS fans to unload their dead weight. There are plenty of good reasons why the Warriors are a terrible team.
Carroll? LOL. The guy who so many Raptors fans wouldn’t want to trade even Banks for.
smushmush says,
Until this team has a big man with low post presence and gets a lot of rebounds ala Biedrins or Okafor with a litter of tested three point shooters like Matt Caroll, Sasha Vujacic or Jordan Farmar and a tested coach like Flip Saunders, this team is going no where.
Yeah, and maybe we could trade for a lowpost presence like Jermaine O’Neal – only then we would have a chance. Maybe pick up a shooter like Jason Kapono or Anthony Parker to surround our low post presence with! That is so clearly the smart thing to do to make us a better club!
I love your sarcasm here. What I’m saying is that a low post presence and a litter of 3 point shooters ala the Orlando system is the most effective way for Raptors to be a ‘contender’. When I mentioned Vujacic, Farmar as 3 point shooters, I was only giving examples. In addition, these guys even shoot 3’s consistently unlike streaky Raptors man-crush Belinelli. We know what to expect from these guys every night, the question I pose to you man-crushers including Colangelo is how many 3’s do you expect from Belinelli in a game? I’m sure you guys don’t know the answer but you’ll have an idea of how many Sasha or Farmar will have per night and besides, they will always have 1 3 pointer made per game unlike Belinelli that has those scoring droughts once in a while, which is why I don’t blame Don Nelson benching him. Guys like Anthony Morrow, Anthony Randolph even fight through scoring droughts which is why they were higher on the depth chart than Belinelli. A real reason while the Oneal trade failed was that the guy was prone to injury and besides we all know Bosh is a weak defender just like Bargnani(actually Bargnani’s own is worse, just wondering why Colangelo has a man-crush on this guy).When last have you heard Okafor or Biedrins going down to injury “frequently”(Note the emphasis on the word frequently)?Can you say that about Oneal?I will make my emphasis once again on a ‘contender’ team:-
A low-post presence defender “that is not prone to injury” and a litter of “tested and consistent”(not streaky) 3 point shooters ala the Orlando’ s system to “punish teams for blown defensive assignments”(The quotes are for emphasis).Even Boston plays these system:-
Garnett or Perkins as a low post presence defender and Allen and House as tested 3 point shooters.Think about the proposal and see if it really makes sense.This is where I stop typing.
There’s gonna be a lot of broken hearts in Raptorville and the tribal honking fans will be moaning and wailing and seeking revenge on BC for busting up their beloved Raptors and loading them with rejects from other teams.
Only utter fools and besotted t.h. fans would assume a team with 9 new players would magically gel within a month and make a charge for the playoffs. It ain’t gonna happen because other teams with secure core players won’t let the Ratpors win .. and if they did, their coach and GM would be lynched in their hometowns.
You just don’t throw together a bunch of disparate players and assume they will have instant chemistry competing in the toughest bball league in the world .. the NBA ..!!!!
For the fledgling new Raptors, I can only see 3 wins in the first 33 games to the end of the year. Yes .. 3-30 .. for a team that has to find it’s chemistry and gel while competing in the NBA.
Contrary to forum opinion, I will be fascinated to see how Triano and Iavaroni will hammer this group of disparate players into a team … so they can compete in the next year. Bball aficionados will view this experiment with great interest, and if Triano and staff can forge the Raptors into a decent team by the end of the year, that would be miraculous and interesting to watch.
Let’s all be thankful that Toronto has a NBA team so we can watch all the other teams playing as well.
Do you want to make a bet on this ??? If team goes 3-30, I will never post here again and if they get more than 3 wins, then you shut your mouth and stop posting here. How about it ?
Agreed .. if they don’t go 3-30, not only will I shut up but if i don’t, then i obviously live in my parents’ basement and you all can all me on it.
However, since this group of disparate players will go 3-30, you’ve bitten off more than you can chew .. so obvious!!
OFTEN IMITATED … NEVER DUPLICATED …!!!!
It happened in 2006! This team is better!
No one goes 3-30, why so sad?
Your comments don’t seem to be based on the team?
It is true that the fans (me too) need to learn some patience. This is a new team about to face some of the toughest teams in the league. But I need to see some bright spots that they CAN improve. Deep breath…wait.
Go back to Oakland.
I thought BC put together a brand new team with close to 9 faces 3 years
ago which was ONLY our best regular season ever (tied franchise record for wins and ONLY division title.
I think any where between 4 and 12 seed is possible and I am thinking 6 or 7 right now….
The Raptors have a very tough first month.
A 2-10 start shouldn’t surprise anyone. But don’t stand near the rails, fans jumping off the bandwagon may trample you in the stampede.
If they go 4-8, they’ve done really well – beating everyone they should finish ahead of and stealing one.
At 5-7 the team’s on track for 50 wins and 4th in the East.
If the S#$T hits the fan (10-35, GOD hopefully not) for this season what would our chances be or our situation be with the 2010 lottery? Considering what the Marion trade did to that pick, will we get it or will it go to Miami when we fall out of contention?
The draft pick from the Jermaine-Marion trade is lottery protected.
* So if the Raptors make the playoffs, the draft pick heads to Miami.
* If the Raptors fail to make the playoffs, and are in the lottery, the Raptors get to keep the pick.
I don’t know how many wins we will get this year, but I’m glad we have Turk to give us a chance to steal some wins late in games. It’s been a long time since we have had that kind of player, and not everyone has one
Just hope that Turk gets better soon or else we’ll be in the same shape late in games as last year.
I’m thinking 37-41 wins.
Yer not ‘thinking’ … yer ‘wishing’ ….
Last year with the team with no talent they had 33 wins, only need 8 more for 41, at this point that seems very possible.
This is the same record I think the Raps are going to end up with. I feel like, for the first 2-3 months we are going to look like a sub .500 team, but as the chemistry comes we’ll be able to start fulfilling our potential. I wouldn’t be totally surprised if we ended up a bit like Chicago from last year, where we come on late, compete for a 6-8 seed, and end up being the team that the top four seeds don’t want to play in the first round. At least, that’s what I hope for as a Raptors fan with rose coloured spectacles.
you have to have noticed that the team needs Reggie Evans as the foundation of the team. “Tone” and rebounding-wise.so reggie i like.
johnson i like.
Turkoglu i like, it’s “pleasant” watching him play. he really sees the court well.
Diddy i like, young and has potential to be very good.
jay’s coaching style i really admire.
i dunno if you saw how im seeing it, there’s no where but up for this team this year.
Bargnani has to go – why do we spend so much rime and effort to bring this guy along when it should be very obvious by now that he is at his peak and it’s not good enough. So here we go again – let’s ask CB4 to carry the team again. I feel bad for Chris because the only sensible thing left for him to do is relocate and yet this guy would really like to stay. His donation to Torornto has been huge and we did nothing to support him. If he ever wants a shot at a ring, he needs to move. the Raptors know this too that’s why you will undoubtedly see a trade before too long – and the Raptora will beigin rebuilding all over again. I’m beginning to know what it is like to be a leaf fan.
John you’re an idiot. Where exactly has Chris carried us? He folds in every big game he has played in as a Raptor. He was bullied by Mikki Moore in the playoffs against the Nets. He consistently gets bullied and always backs down. He hasnt lead us tgo crap because he isnt a leader, bottom line. Bosh feasts off of bottom feaders like Minnesota who put up no resistance and everyone forgets about how he looks against good teams. Last season, this team folded in crunch time because they would feed their “leader” and he would predictably dissappoint. Bosh is a good player, but no way is he a max player, and if he wants that kind of money then so long to RuPaul. He earned that nickname, along with Manute Bol, for a reason. He has a supporting cast, and even though this team will improve, they will achieve even
greater heights if the offence is run through Turkoglu, who is capable of creating for himself, along with others and stepping up when the game is on the line.
As for trading Bargnani, you want to trade a guy who is just begining to realize his potential and has a higher ceiling, along with a reasonable contract for the next 5 years? Thats simply makes no sense, especially when you can trade Bosh who is overrated and will bring back a sweet package.
Gonna play devil’s advocate and ask your thoughts on Pau Gasol in Memphis. I think you’ll agree he’s a damn good player but lot of the criticisms you have of Bosh could be made of Gasol in Memphis. Would you trade Bosh for Gasol?
In a heartbeat, Gasol is a far better player. He has championship pedigree (with the lakers and his national team), something Bosh has never had and likely never will have.
I do believe Bosh did not do too badly with his National Team winning the Gold at the Olympics over Gasol’s National team. Please consider where Gasol would be with LA without Kobe.
Are you kidding me? That has to be the most ridiculous thing ever posted. Did Bosh lead his national team? Or was he a spare part that played a specific role. He was the 5th option on offense, whereas Gasol was the first. Im aware that Gasol has good teamates, but that has nothing to do with someone who hogs the ball and folds under pressure. Settling for jumpers and backing down from Mikki Moore in the playoffs is a prime example of this. Another would be any game against the Pistons or Boston where Rasheed Wallace and KG bully him. Its sad to watch really.
Johnn19 why dont you consider where LA would be without Gasol, because before he arrived they weren’t championship calibre.
Of course Pau is the #1 reason the Lakers won the championship, and not the fact that they have Kobe, Bynum and hell, have enough depth to have Odom come off the bench.
When Gasol led the Grizzlies to several good seasons on a relatively stacked team, his obvious superiority over Bosh didn’t help them win a single post-season game. Not a single one.
Also hilarious that you would slight all of Gasol’s national team teammates (I guess it wasn’t their overall team effort). I guess if we can rag on the previous several star-filled Team USAs for lack of team effort (leading to early exits), we should also condemn Bosh for not being enough of a star on a team that finally won. Guess that makes sense when you apply selective reasoning.
As for the criticisms of Gasol, no one has ever said he folds when the spotlight is on, something Bosh is notorious for.
Except for the fact that everyone used to say that about Gasol. That, along with the fact that he was considered soft and wasn’t able to get his team out of the first round. Spooky, no?
Its amazing what people forget when you have a player like Kobe Bryant taking the load off your shoulder.
Just to make sure you remember this, but those Memphis Grizzlies (back in their hey day) went something like 0-16 in a bunch of first round exits. It was exactly that criticism, that he was soft, folded under the spotlight, and could never lead a team anywhere, that he was known for. It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Higher ceiling?
Realize potential?
Bob, you’re quite the idiot yourself.
So Bosh who can only score by facing up and occassionally dring to the hoop has a higher cieling then someone who can score facing up, driving to the basket, posting up, hitting the three, hitting the pull up jumper? Bosh’s offensive game is so predictable, and they are both equally dissappointing on defence, although Bargnani had more blocks in less minutes then Bosh. I would say Bargs has a higher ceiling since his game is more diverse. So actually Bob, seeing as how Bargnani improved quite a bit last year and has looked great in preseason I would say that you’re the idiot.
Ok lets settle down. I agree with Bob that Bargs is a better prospect then Bosh and definitely at a better price tag long term. If we could trade him for some nice package i would do it in a heartbeat because I see his ego taking him south anyways. Also as much as i like the guy, he is not a max player.
I actually hate the word “prospect” or “potential”(note the emphasis quotes). How many players with these words have realized their potential? Name some and I’ll refute them for you. We have two “prospects” – Amir and Bargnani and we’re waiting for them to realize their potential. Wow, that will be a long wait especially for Amir. Those words are utterly useless, I can excuse them during a draft day signing but 3-4 years down the road, that is bulls**t.I rest my case here.
Idiotic at best!! Trade the player with the most upside on the team for an overrated RuPaul who ever since Vince left has thought of himself as the ONE and he’s far from it. Bosh is a very good player who has an ego MUCH bigger than his talent and until he realizes that he and the team he plays on will go nowhere. He is a soft big man who can rebound and shoot the ball. He is as bad a passer as big men get, he’s soft, and selfish with the ball. He has never played big against big competition so don’t wait for it to start anytime soon. He needs to play behind another star or two who call him out for him to play the game he should.Trading Bosh sooner than later would only help the Raptors as he’s gone anyway and we can get used to team players that want to be here.
You obviously don’t know anything about the Leafs. If the Raptors were the Leafs, we’d be trading away our draft picks and young players for guys like Marbury or Allan Houston during the end of their careers.
OFTEN IMITATED … NEVER DUPLICATED !!!
Raps trade:
POB and CB4 to Knicks for
D Lee (we insist he signs an extension first)
J Hill
J Jeffries (they insist on this in order to part with a first)
Knicks 1st Rnd pick in 2010
Good trade or bad?????
The Knicks don’t own their 2010 first round draft pick. Utah does. Very valuable pick for the Jazz to hold.
ooooooooooopps never mind….
CB4 to the Knicks for Gaillinari + Lee + Hill works better imo. No need to take back J Jeffries when we’re giving up an all-star power forward.
Bad trade. Lee is not an imposing defensive presence(Little block and steal stats and I’m sure, little assist stats just like Bosh). Tim has already said we should not go for him and I concur.
bahhhh who will still have the worst record after 12 games?! Leafs or Raps?! how sad sports have become in this city.
Raps aren’t going 0-8
How am I feeling at the end of this preseason? I am feeling skeptical that Bosh and Bargnani can work together on the defensive end, and that we are going to get schooled for the first little while. Not having a single back-to-the-basket scorer will cause problems for getting our wing players into the mix on the offensive end (i.e. kick-outs are easier when you are already facing other players).
I feel way pessimistic, probably far more than I should. I don’t think that the trade for JO was the wrong idea (i.e. two big men that can bang and board, and JO was meant to be a low-post presence) I just think that JO was too old, and too much of a blackhole.
I was high on Bosh and Bargnani being able to work their shit out – but so far I have not seen them both on the same page.
i am looking forward to have Reggie on with both Bosh and Bargnani though. Why did Rasho have to go and lose weight? He was a great sub to put in because you knew with his size it was adequate for him to just stand there, and no one was going to move him. Now? Not so much.
Overall…this pre season looks terrible for the Raptors. I really don’t see them somehow playing well against the Cavs next week. I get the feeling its going to take months for them to start playing well. This could be another in a long line of shitty seasons.
Just wondering.
Since the claim is Flynn “lit-up” JC with 16 points. I guess he destroyed Stuckey with 18 the night before and embarrassed Billups with 13 the game before that?
This is still preseason isn’t it?
Flynn is averaging about 15 ppg in preseason – and who else is going to score now on this team?
Flynn was the player of the game, you weren’t there and neither was I. I’m basing that on people that were actually at the game. It’s not necessarily a criticism of Jose, the guy played 39 minutes and Flynn’s a young gun, it’s to be expected.
If we keep Calderon’s minutes around 28-32 and he’s fully healthy I don’t think he’ll be a defensive liability.
I just hope that for the time we put in Jack, he stops hoisting up perimiter shots he clearly can’t make. I want to see him try to get inside on smaller pgs and muscle his way to some points.
I did read Doug Smith live game blog where he says Flynn wasn’t dominating (when someone asked him the question – 2x, same answer).
“8:59
[Comment From Ryan MorrisonRyan Morrison: ]
Is Jose having trouble handling the speed of Flynn?
Friday October 23, 2009 8:59 Ryan Morrison
9:00
No, not at all, actually. Flynn’s been relatively invisible ”
But the point was: Are you saying Flynn dominated JC but Stuckey gave up more points and wasn’t dominated or Billups gives up just 3 less and played him better? Didn’t see those games either.
And since both PG had very similar stat lines, its hard to see how one could have dominated the other? (& Calderon was just -1 in a game they lost by 8 points)
Unfortunately – it is all just 3rd hand and a guess.
Arse’s ‘lit up’ comment annoyed me too. Jose will never morph into the next Gary Payton, I wish people would get over it. Jose basically played Flynn to a stand-still. Good enough for me.
Oh, so now we go from (2 years ago): “This guy is a future All Star in the NBA” to: “He plays a nobody to a stand still, good enough for me”.
I love it.
This outfit of an organization is being exposed daily for what they are, and what some have been claiming for a while: A money grabbing and hungry bunch of thieves, who’s sole interest is to make you believe something is going on, when in fact NOTHING is and never will. BC has finally managed to recreate the business model from PHX, one where “fans” are screaming “Finals here we come”, but REAL ball fans know – it’s all smoke and mirrors.
What’s sad is that the eleventeen year old crowd will never stop being the majority part of the fanbase.. and while that is true…MLSE will make hand over fist, while we are watching feeble attempts at playoff runs, or 1st round exits.
IN BC WE TRUST!
Always hear the same thing from leafs fans to… some big conspiracy by MLSE to make money by doing nothing (even when they go out and spend money).
They are running a business. They do what they think is in the best interests of shareholders (which includes investors, stockholders owners and fans). Its to bad the “fans” (and I use that term loosely) think everything SHOULD be done for them. When the team isn’t winning… they whine, “I told you so” comes out, its all such and such fault. Always so narrow minded in their view. Trying to win (or putting a winning product on the floor) will ALWAYS be more profitable than a losing team (think big… not just ticket sales. TV contracts, merchandise etc. sold not just in Canada and the US, but the world). So to think these guys aren’t trying is a stretch at best. But unfortuantely not everyone can win all the time, and no one will loose all the time. Some teams have better/worse stretches than others, of that there is no doubt. But its not a simple process to win in the NBA (or any sports league) regardless of how it looks sometimes. The luck of the draw (or the player) often is the difference maker.
This is why BC is a genius… he has sold this team to the world. As the world watches and buys products, the Raptors become more profitable. Investors and stakeholders take note of this and are more willing to invest more money in the company. MLSE opens the coffers allowing BC (or whichever GM it may be) to constantly improve the team. With $ comes succes in the NBA.
Just because you don’t have a business mind and are narrow in your view as a fan does not mean those running multi-million $ corporations do not. While you are thinking micro & short term…. those guys are thinking macro & long term.
P.S. Because of the strength and reliability of MLSE as a company, it also ensures a team will likely always exist here. You will always have a team to whine and complain about, you should feel lucky.
hmmmm….
not so much of a conspiracy, only an interpretation of events.
(you are working under many assumptions and the unfortunate part is that this will end in a discussion over minor details, which we will undoubtedly disagree upon.)
Clearly, I understand this is a business. And, I don’t believe everything should be done for me. However, I would like to see EVERYONE happy. I would venture to say (without any on hand financial information) that MLSE has done quite well for itself, while the fans are still left (depending on your accepted level of success) empty handed. So, why is that if MLSE has been making money.. this team has not achieved success? You said: “With $ comes succes in the NBA.” Please elaborate and discuss.. I am all ears. Let me guess, we’ve just been “unlucky” while the other teams are making daily offerings to the Tooth Fairy?
This is not so much about if they are trying, rather what they are “trying” for.
Your perspective and mine are completely different simply based on time. I’ve been watching the “long term” for a while now.. should we go over the results of this franchise? Are we going to analyze every move made and disagree on every transaction? Probably. Because, regardless of what I say, you will view every move as a step, or attempt there of, in the right direction (In BC The Genius we trust no?) – where I will see steps being made backwards.
As a fan, I’m just tired of being sold propaganda that false and misleading.
Oh, and I appreciate all the wonderful assumptions you make about me… not sure what it quite says.
P.S. I could care less,if a team exists here. They should be so lucky to have a loyal fanbase. Remember, without Joe Public.. they are nothing.
FLUXLAND, you have to keep in mind though, that part of true success in the NBA is luck based.
For one, you have to have great luck with the draft. Picking a player is not an exact science, and it gets more difficult the lower your pick is (i.e., the team with the first pick knows they WILL get who they want, while the team with the 10th pick has to have several options, just in case).
Look at the top teams right now:
1. LA: Big money, big market, and drafted Kobe Bryant. Where given a gift in the Gasol trade. Now talent flocks there for a ring.
2. Cleveland: Drafted Lebron James. Need I say more?
3. Boston: Drafted Al Jefferson. I don’t know much about how the trades went down, but I imagine the Garnett and Allen trades were virtually conditional on one another (which equates to them agreeing to be traded there). Either way, Boston was lucky to have 2 all-stars wanting out of their teams (but kudos to their GM for grabbing both).
4. Orlando: Drafted Dwight Howard. Slowly put a winner together around him.
5. San Antonio: Last but not least, the Spurs had the first pick and the fortune to have David Robinson available. Years later, they tank one year while Robinson is injured, and are “punished” with another #1 pick and Tim Freaking Duncan. Such horrible luck!
Part of my point here is that these guys were able to draft superstars to help them succeed. The Raptors, meanwhile, had to live with an underachieving Vince Carter (who did not want to stay here), an all-star who is not a true superstar (Bosh), and a long-term project as the consensus #1 pick when they did get that first pick.
To put it differently: what do you think this team would look like if WE had Dwight Howard? I’m quite sure we would have been the ones to make a trip to the finals last year, not Orlando. CB4 AND D12?? Yes please!
(Oh, the number of easy dimes that Calderon would get would be ludicrous!)
LC009,
I wasn’t discounting the element of “risk” (luck) – meaning that some players will not work out, but you have to admit that at some point some picks become a question of choice, not luck.
1. LA – ok.
2. LeBoom – ok (although we had a shot at #1 recently and of course the pick is debatable to this day, depending on your concept of “ideal team”)
3. agreed – although, that trade was sooo covered in suspicion of fairness (just like the Gasol one, I suppose – which may also raise the question of negotiating skill, not luck – imo. but depends on your take of how it went down.)
4. Interesting. And how long before he went to Finals? So are we now saying (admitting) that we have not surrounded CB4 (if he’s our D12 as we have been told) with the right people? After being told this is the best team on paper? Is that luck or skill (lack there of) that created the situation? (of course this is where I will hear about injuries, coaches, etc.. other issues facing the majority of teams)
5. Hey! There’s a small market team. Oh, and The Robot being drafted in SA was due to a little tanking on the part of the Spurs…not sure if that really fits here.
At the end of the day, I hold BC and management responsible for creating this culture and environment.. and more importantly the subsequent results…not luck. I guess it just amazes me how easily people forget about who’s in charge and hence carries the burden of responsibility. Like and old NFL football coach told a bus driver, who got the team lost on the way to game: “It’s ok. I don’t blame you… I blame the guy who hired you.” You see, it is that guy who evaluated and hired the driver, thereby creating the opportunity (risk) for the team to get lost. (loose analogy.. but you get the point)
Like I said, the devil here will be in the details. And we can discuss those until the end of time, but suffice to say, IMO.. we cannot hang our hats simply on luck… or teams getting luckier then us. Unless of course, we still believe in Santa.. which I assume, for most Raptor fans, is still the case.
I guess the real question is… if you don’t care if there is a team in T.O. or not…. why do you care what other people think of the Raptors or BC? Really seems kind of pointless to me.
I am so ready for the regular season to begin. I hate the excuse of ” It is still preseason”
If the Raptors went 8-0 during the pre-season, people would be saying, don’t get too excited it’s only pre-season. It’s only pre-season, I mean it’s only pre-season…we’re talking about pre-season.
A team is only as good as the leader(s). Bosh has always been the leader. He is crap. Therefore, Raptors are crap. Simple logic. =)
He does put up a lot of points. But how many points does he let his opponent score? How many attempts did he put up? How many were tough and stupid shots (without looking for his teammates)?
Btw, Bosh sets terrible screens. I will give him an excuse though, since he is not wide enough.
Enough with my rant. I know many of you would disagree.
Peter … you make many good points, but the problem is how to maximize Bosh’s trade value? One way would be to ensure he pads his stats every game and that will be the job of the Raps coaching staff.
If Bosh doesn’t get enough playing time, that will depress his 2010 market value … and Bosh will let BC know of his discontent. I don’t see any reason for Bosh staying with the Raps beyond 2010, and BC must ensure he gets more than fair value for Bosh.
So who’s gonna provide the lockdown defense on Lebron this Wednesday???
Maybe Lebron won’t start .. only Parker and Jamario … good enough to beat the Raptors ya think ???
Nobody in the whole league can lockdown Lebron. Stop acting like its something that only the Raptors will not be able to do.
Lebron will cut through the Raps defense like a hot knife through butter … and maybe even light it up with 50+ points … it’s possible.
If LeBron chooses to score 50 in a game – who is going to stop him?
The only reason LBJ doesn’t score 50 every night is because that isn’t the best way to win games.
FAQ reminds of the the crazy, homeless people that scream on the subway…you can’t ignore them no matter how much you try, but you wish they would shut the fuck up and go the hell away!
If people stop giving him money for booze, he’d eventually starve and go away.
You’re right brothersteve …. but Lebron may be benched in the 4th quarter if things go the way I suspect….
Turk will probably cover Lebron
He’s got a sore ankle ….!!!!!
Man this team looks brutal.
Paging Chicken Little, please check the sky.
Its Falling! Its Falling!