Chris Bosh welcomed his new teammate with 20 points in the first half, but the Raptors suffered third-quarter defensive lapses and fatigue may have got the best of them.
"I thought they played well together and we got a little glimpse of what they’re going to be able to do," Raptors coach Jay Triano said.
"I don’t think (Turkoglu) is real comfortable yet, but still he got five assists and I thought he played better as he played more minutes. I’m not disappointed at all."
Raptors coach Jay Triano said he hopes to hear good news soon regarding small forward Antoine Wright, who did not travel to Hartford because of a sore right knee. "Hopefully he’ll be able to play (today) when we head back home,” Triano said. "I know he’s itching and ready to go. He had a good training camp but he has yet to play in a game. He hasn’t been rewarded for his hard work yet.”
The Raptors play home exhibition games tonight against Houston and Sunday against Boston.
Turkoglu, despite missing all three jump shots he took in the first half – a couple of them went horribly awry – made an otherwise solid Raptors debut Wednesday night as Toronto lost 106-90 to the Boston Celtics.
In 14 first-half minutes, all played alongside Bosh, Turkoglu went scoreless but dished out five assists, acting as the point forward that Toronto has never really had. He made all three shots he took it the third quarter, when Toronto let the game get away with some bad transition defence, and he finished with six points, five assists and a rebound in 21 minutes.
Bosh? He was the main beneficiary, scoring 20 of his 21 points in the opening two quarters, working at times seamlessly with his new teammate.
After missing a reverse layup early in the third quarter, Bosh vehemently protested to referee Tre Maddox after no foul was called. Later in the quarter, Bosh had some words for referee Jaimie Morales after picking up his fourth and fifth fouls in a 10-second span.
“It was for a moving screen,” Bosh said. “I told them I have to actually move into somebody to get a moving screen. You know, it is what it is. … It’s pre-season, it’s practice for everybody.”
Raptors vs Celtics hilights
Raptors vs Celtics hilights
Said Garnett: “Tonight was a flow night. Every time we step on the floor, it is to get better and, chemistry-wise, I thought we did just that.
“It was a little bit of a slow start. I say a slow start just because rhythm-wise, trying to figure out Toronto – it’s a new team. We haven’t seen them this year. Once we settled in and got our schemes together, I thought we played with a real nice rhythm.’’ The Celtics (4-1 in the exhibition season) and Raptors (2-3) will be rematched in Toronto Sunday afternoon.
The Toronto Raptors will be a very skilled basketball team this season. But they have not been ‘blue collar’ tough in a while. The Jermaine O’Neal Experiment proved to be ill advised. They have gone in an entirely different direction with the acquisition of Hedo Turkoglu. Quicker tempo and ball movement will prevail.
Kendrick Perkins…The game got physical. It got too physical for them, and I don’t think they can keep up.
Rockets coach Rick Adelman said he would like to use a regular-season style rotation tonight, but he did not know who would play up front because of matchups with the Raptors and their use of 3-point shooters Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani, and the uncertain availability of Hedo Turkoglu.
“We’ll see who they play,” Adelman said. “A lot depends on who they play. I don’t know if they’re going to play their main guys a lot tomorrow.
“The big guys, for instance, I would like to play four guys each game.”
It makes no sense to buy him out and send him packing, like the Knicks did with Stephon Marbury when they grew tired of his act. Jackson is still a near-elite player, and some team will become desperate and trade for him.
If he wants out, Jackson must come back, act right and hope a team is foolish enough to want him. Right now, teams are standing back and observing. One of those is the Raptors, who are interested in unloading Chris Bosh for the Warriors’ Andris Biedrins. Jackson could be part of a package deal.
Brothersteve’s Green & Red Raptor Blog
Of course anyone who actually spends money to buy Raptors TV would never consider watching the Raptors play on the internet instead of watching what MLSE chooses to broadcast that evening? I’m sure that this decision made sense to someone trapped in their ACC cubicle.
If MLSE won’t show the game, I guess there is no reason to complain about Ontario’s other sports channels that chose darts? horse racing? and rerun programming? instead of picking up the Comcast-NE broadcast.
You got to give Bryan Colangelo credit for making so many changes within an off-sesaon. As a result, the team is deeper, the offense should be better. The defense is a question mark, so far they have shown they are more active in the pre-season games, but that could be fool’s gold. If Bosh can have a big year, then the team could win 50 games.
09-10 record: 45-37, 5th in the East. If Bosh has a big year and the Raptors win 45 games or less, then it’s not good news for a Raptor fan.
For those of you who missed tonight’s game, which should be most of you, unless you have Comcast Sports Net at home or watched an online feed, the Raptors debuted their new and improved starting five. With Hedo Turkoglu making his Raptors pre-season debut, the projected starting lineup of Calderon, DeRozan, Turkoglu, Bosh and Bargnani played together for the first time.
As fate would have it, the new-look Raptors were in Hartford (of all places) to take on the star-studded Boston Celtics, minus Rasheed Wallace. The Celtics started with their regular top-four of Rondo, Allen, Pierce and KG, with Perkins in the place of ‘Sheed.
Here’s a quick, and hopefully informative, recap of what you missed.
Twice (that I counted) he found Calderon for a jumper after drawing his defender over on a drive. Caldy’s never had a wing that commanded help on the drive before and I think he’ll thrive as a spot up shooter. Having someone that could consistently get into the lane and create defensive switches was something we sorely lacked last year and I think Hedo will fill that role perfectly.
His shooting was a mixed bag. From midrange, he looked great, drilling two pull ups from the elbow. From outside though he was awful. He missed all three from outside 20 feet by a mile including two deep covered threes that left me shaking my head. Maybe those weeny FIBA 3 point lines messed up his range. I kiddd but seriously, he did not look comfortable hucking those up.
The Raptors managed to get their first win of the pre-season against the Minnesota Timberwolves last week. Today, the match up series focuses on the aforementioned Wolves team with a preview provided by Zach.
Reggie Evans sprained his left foot while going for a rebound in the 1st QRT of last night’s game between the Raptors and Celtics.
He hobbled to the locker room and did not return to the game.
He’ll have the foot re-evaluated in T.O. some time later today.
The Raptors are in an enviable position, and one that they’ve never been in before in franchise history. They will have four possible All-Stars on the roster that could end up in Dallas this February. Bosh is a four time All-Star, both Calderon and Turkoglu have been mentioned before in All-Star conversations (some say Turkoglu got shafted last year), and Bargnani is in the enviable position of being an above average center in a conference devoid of above average centers- one could say a league of them, as well. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean they’ll actually send any more players than usual.
ShareSince I couldn’t be at the game for you guys tonight, I enlisted the help of my friends over at Celticsblog.com to get some answers on the Raptors 106-90 loss to the Boston Celtics. Yes, I went to the "enemy" and yes, they agreed to help me. Much love to Tom (@celticsblog) for helping me out here, because he came through HUGE with some stuff for you. After the fun of practice and games, I’ve been hard at work for you Raptor fans, trying to set this up in each city. I can’t make any promises, but please know I’ll try my best!
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56 Raps
scotts raps articles stink. i read all raps news but i had to stop reading his stuff because his opinions are always so ridiculous..alos his writing stlye is offensive and childish
I’m really getting tired of hearing this Bosh for Biedrins trade. Now they are talking about including steve jack. Gimmie a break, “One of those is the Raptors, who are interested in unloading Chris Bosh for the Warriors’ Andris Biedrins. Jackson could be part of a package deal.” Are you serious? and who is the Detroit news to be reporting about Toronto and G-state. Clearly don’t know what’s really going on.
Jackson? lol
No Jackson in Toronto. I’ll prefer Randolph.
wtf@Detroit News. Bryan Colangelo wouldn’t take Stephen Jackson. His personality doesn’t fit. The position is already log jammed. I just don’t understand where these people come up with this shit. In other news, the San Antonio Spurs are looking to dump Tim Duncan now that he’s old. The Lakers are offering Jordan Farmar, Luke Walton, and Derek Fisher. What, the salaries don’t match? Who cares! I don’t research my articles anyway!
…
Yes, I’m fuming.
I finally saw a complete Raptors game this preseason.
I think Arsenalist’s recap in right on the money.
If Gar-not or any of their other Big 4 (I include Rondo) are not seriously injured the Mean Greenies are going to be facing up with the Cadaviers for the ECF come next spring.
Why isn’t Sweetney playing for the Bella-Cheats? LOL
who is the Detroit news to be reporting about Toronto and G-state. Clearly don’t know what’s really going on.>>
The Det News for years has covered non Pistons related basketball stuff even when the Pistons are playing, though more so when they are not.
As to why?
Why did Detroit elect Kwame Kilpatrick mayor? I am surprised they dumped the clown. Sir Charles must be PO’d that K. Johnson and D. Bing are mayors while his political career is still on hold Go figure.
Can anyone tell me the following, and why:
Who should start – DeRozan or Belinelli?
Calderon or Jack?
Who should sub – Wright or Weems?
Evans or Johnson?
I’m not a fan (as it stands now) of giving Marco any minutes over Derozan or Weems. Unless Wright looks like a flop…. i don’t think he deserves minutes over him either
Considering Marco was brought in to be a scorer (and he is shooting 37% and 25% from 3) it does not look appealing to me. Its almost like Marco thinks his minutes are guaranteed… yet Weems and Derozan are working their asses off to earn minutes.
But again… alot can happen between now and the regular season.
DeRozan or Belinelli: DD. In short, he’s more consistent and less a liability on either end.
Calderon or Jack: Calderon, no doubt about it. He’s the starting PG and barring injury there is no reason Jack should start, even if he outplays him during pre-season. It would just send the totally wrong message to Jose and would be very stupid.
Wright or Weems: Weems because Wright hasn’t played.
Evans or Johnson: Evans to me, just to set the early tone. Johnson can be used as mid-second quarter sub.
Thanks, Arsenalist. While waiting for your reply, I did a quick spreadsheet on career numbers for all of them. Interestingly, Evans, Wright, DeRozan (using USC stats) & Jack were the better all-round players, while Johnson, Wright (again), Belinelli & Calderon were the better all-round shooters. Only Weems looks like he doesn’t belong in the group. I know he’s had some decent numbers this pre-season, but somebody has to sit to let Wright play when he comes back.
I would Evans ahead of Johnson unless
1. Johnson can get and keep his foul rate down like yesterday
2. Also be able to increase his agggressiveness at the same time that he keeps his fouls down.
Last night his aggressivenss was not there though he did do a decent job on defense and took the ball to the rack twice on dribble drives resulting in making a pair of free throws.
I think Triano has told Johnson that the only way he get minutes is to get and keep his foul rate down. I thought it was interesting that immediately after Johnson was called for his one foul Johnson looked over at the Raptors bench and said something with his hands razed. It looked like he was saying, “Coach I never touched him”
He certainly appears to be trying very hard to keep his foul count.
Lets see what happens tonight if Johnson plays.
Weems should be given a chance to start. The guy is efficient in his shot selection and plays good defense and rebounds.Derozoan should probably sub.The guy will be taking hits everytime in NBA games, might be time for him to consider getting up in pounds like Bosh. Weems is also a smart choice because he’s got weight on his side, so he won’t really be knocked around court by heavier shooting guards like Wade. Jack should start because of defensive reasons until Calderon can start staying in front of his man. Evans or Johnson, any is okay. For Belinelli, until he starts making 3s consistently, he would be warming the bench in my opinion.
Triano has gone on the record saying he doesn’t want anymore than a 9 man rotation so the obvious…
PG Calderon, Jack
SG DeRozan
SF Hedo, Wright
PF Bosh
C Bargs
That’s 7 so that leaves 2 more to get consistant minutes. I think at the end of the day Rasho will be one of them because he is the only true centre on the team. The other looks like either Evans or Amir Johnson. I think we will see a lot of Jack at the SG and not much of Weems or Marco. NOt saying they won’t play but neither has given any reason to play ahead of DeRozan who I think is a full time starter out of the gate playing 25-30 and with Jack getting 10-15 at the SG there’s no time left until an injury hits. I’d go with Weems for sure based on the energy in the preseason. Marco could see spot duty as a sniper in situations but he doesn’t defend and is inconsistant.
The X Factor is I’m assuming Wright will get all the back up minutes at SF and that might be proven wrong which would open up some minutes.
If I’m right that Amir is the one out in the cold that would be a shame because I love the energy and shot blocking. However, he can’t stay on the floor due to fouls so you can’t count on him. Evans isn’t spectacular but you know what you are getting and he won’t take the wild shots in the regular season like he has in the preseason. Guys always play outside their ability in the preseason. Think Dwight Howard taking face up jumpers in the preseason…those go back in the tool box come October 27th!!!!!!!!!
Hmm… Last year’s Efficiency Rating (if I had to go with only one stst, that would be it) tells a different story … Belinelli 7.62, Evans 2.00, Johnson 2.00, Weems -0.08. Does Belinelli need to fit in with the group that’s on the floor with him? Yes. Would I play him more than the other three until he isn’t fitting in with his team-mates? Yes. And I agree about Nesterovic (8.67) over O’Bryant (3.41), and the rest of your rotation.
Good point. But Evans skills are on the defensive end so PER tells little about his contribution. Weems has never played other than garbage time so again it doesn’t tell you a lot. I guess your point is Belinelli is a somewhat proven player vs. Weems which is right. But he isn’t really in the running for Evans or Wrights minutes (under my model) because he can’t play SF or in Evans case PF. I think Marco loses minutes to DeRozan which is obvious and Jack. I don’t love Wright but he is all we have at back up SF other than DeRozan against some of the smaller SF in which case that would open up SG minutes for Marco.
The way I see it is you have 48 minutes at PG and 48 minutes at SG. If Calderon plays 36 and Jack plays 12 at PG that means Jack will get 15 minutes at the SG before Marco gets sniff. DeRozan will play 20-30 on most night so we’re talking about 10 minutes left. Do you just play DD and Jack more or go to a third option? I don’t think Marco has done anything to give Triano a reason to give him time. I think barring injury Marco is a spot player at best.
I forgot to mention that Wright was a 5.90 efficiency. Efficiency does take into account steals, rebounds & blocks, so I disagree about it not recognizing good defenders. Besides, I’ve been looking for a better stat for years, and have yet to come across one. I can see Coach entering the playoffs with rotations of Bargnani, Bosh & Nesterovic up front, Turkoglu, Wright, Belinelli (& maybe-hopefully DeRozan) at the wings, and Calderon & Jack at the point. Everyone else is an injury fill-in, when necessary.
The better stat than PER is your eyes. Steals and blocks are a very poor reflection on a perimeter defender. I’m not saying it has no relevance or isn’t the best “Stat” to measure Defense but if you look at the best defenders over the last decade few have been among the leaders in steals. Bowen, Battier etc. Guys who get lots of steals are generally athletic guys who gamble and play in the passing lanes. That doesn’t make you a good defender. Take a look at the league leaders from last year and I think you will agree that although the majority of these guys are solid on D I see a lot of guys that are far from great. Take a look!
Chris Paul , NOH 78 38.5 216 2.77 3.45 231 2.96 212 .94 1.02
2 Dwyane Wade , MIA 79 38.6 173 2.19 2.72 272 3.44 178 .64 .97
3 Jason Kidd , DAL 81 35.6 160 1.98 2.66 185 2.28 168 .86 .95
4 * Mario Chalmers , MIA 82 32.0 160 1.95 2.92 165 2.01 240 .97 .67
5 Rajon Rondo , BOS 80 33.0 149 1.86 2.71 209 2.61 193 .71 .77
6 Ronnie Brewer , UTA 81 32.2 138 1.7 2.54 110 1.36 128 1.26 1.08
6 Gerald Wallace , CHA 71 37.6 121 1.7 2.18 148 2.08 210 .82 .58
8 LeBron James , CLE 81 37.7 137 1.69 2.15 241 2.98 139 .57 .99
9 Trevor Ariza , LAL 82 24.4 137 1.67 3.29 87 1.06 166 1.58 .82
10 Andre Iguodala , PHI 82 39.9 131 1.6 1.92 222 2.71 152 .59 .86
11 Raymond Felton , CHA 82 37.6 126 1.54 1.96 228 2.78 191 .55 .66
12 Kobe Bryant , LAL 82 36.1 120 1.46 1.95 210 2.56 189 .57 .64
13 Rafer Alston , ORL-HOU
Definitely. I remember back when Ratliff was in his prime how everyone was so gaga over his block totals, but if you watched him play, he was consistently getting beat by his man and while it’s nice that he recovered some of those with his shot-blocking ability, I’m sure most coaches would prefer to have him not get beat in the first place.
Or the way Moon would get blocks by leaving his feet on every single jumper/pump-fake, for example.
There’s several problems with using ‘my eyes’ as a measuring stick. One, they’re too subjective, and I’m philosophically against allowing hype & moments of glory taint my views. Two, I haven’t even had a pre-season game televised, so it’s pointless for me. I have to listen to the radio, and check the boxscore. And three, it isn’t that they’re defending that matters, it’s who they’re defending that matters. There’s too much to process there, and I’m not being paid for it, so I refuse to do it. By the way, I hated Bowen & love Battier, yet both are equally lauded. I want something more consistent than that. Bowen should’ve fouled out of every game he ever played. He was the most over-rated defender that I’ve ever seen. End of rant.
A few notes:
Calderon is more likely to play 32 minutes, 34 at most, and Jack’s acquisition was geared toward this (not just for his ability at the 2).
“Do you play DD and Jack more or go to a third option?”
It’s obvious there will be a third option. With Jack picking up 16 minutes at PG, he’s probably going to pick up no more than 10 minutes at SG unless DeRozan and Belinelli really struggle. Though Jack averaged 33 minutes last year, 26 is a better bet for him this year coming off the bench.
If we slot in DeRozan for a good 20 minutes a night (he’s probably going to play the first half of the first quarter, the first half of the third quarter, and pick up the rest of his minutes depending on his night and the matchups), that will leave 18 for Belinelli. I’m pretty sure Triano will rather let Belinelli have those minutes, rather than overload Jack and the inexperienced rookie.
Remember, in an ideal world Jay would have an 8- or 9-man rotation, but when you have two unproven players at the 2, and the likes of A.J., Evans and Nesterovic as your bigs, a 10-man rotation will be more likely, with the last spot dependent on the matchup.
If they do go to a 9-man rotation, it’ll be either with Belinelli eating up Wright’s minutes, or one of the bigs (A.J. most likely) performing well enough to spell both Bosh and Bargnani.
Oh, and btw, you put way too much faith in Evans. Unless Triano gets the message through to him, that really will be how he will plays, and not because he’s trying new things in preseason.
According to 82games.com Evans had the 2nd worst Roland rating of all 76ers, -7.8. 2nd only to Ivey’s -9.0
His Net Points per 100 Possessions taking into accunt offense and defense) was a -3.0
The 76ers affective field goal percentage both on offense and defense was worse when Evans was on the court than when he wasn’t.
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809PHI.HTM
This doesn’t surprise me. Philadelphia is loaded with players that can bang and produce. His usefulness on that roster, is severely marginalized.
On our team, we have no one that does what evens does. Maybe Amir Johnson.
Belinelli will get minutes. For sure. Colangelo has been courting this guy for years. Triano needs to give him a fair shake.
DeRozan won’t be, as you say, “a full time starter out of the gate playing 25-30″. There have been many accounts already of how he’ll likely receive 15-20 to start.
I HATE THE CELTICS!!!!! its getting rediculous already. it drives me crazy to hear them talking about the raps. WE CAN BEAT THEM! i know its preseason but somebody im thinking bosh or bargs needs to send a message to perkins about tough physical bball. elbow to the throat would be nice. this guy is talkn some shit already about us being soft. we were a bad call away from beating them last year, there were some terrible calls last night and this prick is saying the refs had no choice but to reward there toughness. if thats the attitude other teams are taking going into games with us we need to send a message NOW.. LIKE SUNDAY. KG gave dede a hard foul and perk is throwing around bargs we need to establish that we’re not gonna take it now. in my opinion sunday has the importance of the end of the movie when the nerd fight back win and teach the bullies a lesson and if you remember in revenge of the nerds 2 OGRE joined the nerds. im just sayin.
lets get dirty and even before the 28th.
Bosh and Andrea should send the messsage? Not their style. (If they can get tough like that all of a sudden, why couldn’t they do it the year before?)
You do realize that is exactly the job of a player like Perkins, right? To get under the skin of our top players so that they lose their temper and get thrown out of the game.
yes i do realize that. and i’d be happy to see one of those guys get thrown out. and dont under estimate AB i’ve seen him play with a chip on his shoulder.
this season is about adapting to a new style.the old style doesnt work. if cb4 wants to be “the best player in the world” then that means he has to win and to do that he needs to show some pride and toughness ie use your 15 pounds of beef and show people you’ve changed!
dont forget these are young guys who arent set in there ways yet and all im saying is that if i had a SAY thats what i would tell these 2 cornerstones to do. set the example now! for the city, for the team, for the league, for the young guys and for themselves and if they get thrown out fined, suspended GOOOOOD! its worth it and they both can afford it.
this is a crossroad season they need to stop fartn around now.
btw, i think they both showed some of this last night just not enough to be shocking which is what i feel they need.
Why don’t you just not pay so much attention to what people say. If you got angry at everything said, you’re gonna be a very unhappy person considering the things professional athletes tend to say.
You think a cheap shot to the neck is going to send a message? Get real. At best, it’ll just make them play that much harder against us. I’d much rather have the Raptors play smart during the regular season, than start something now in the pre-season that they can’t finish.
oh im real! and its not what they say as much as its what they do. what he said was right! thats why its a problem and thats why it has to change. hes saying they got calls because of the tough cred points they have so thats why the calls turned in the second half. does that not ring any bells for you??no? they establish themselves as tough so the game is called accordingly. im not saying cheap shot, im saying establish that you’re gonna play the same way.. now. im my opinion that is smart.
btw perk throws maad elbows my friend all game. so did malone, barkley oakley etc and so does kg ,perk,jo when he was good and every other intense champion.
There’s no use in elbowing people, let’s start playing some smart D before starting brawls for nothing, it’s not the WWF, even if the celtics play like the Legion of Doom. Bargs and Bosh (and others too) should go where they are needed on D and stop wandering aimlessy, then the raps can get some respect. Oh and an upset Andrea is useless: quick fouls and he’s gone in a minute. A focused Andrea is much better.
FYI, I used BasketballReference.com because they go back every year of an NBA career.
Hey, isn’t the smart thing to do with the Celtics to go at them on O and earn the free throws that would result? And we do want to be smart, right? Thus isn’t hockey!
Definitely. One of the worst things about last year’s Raptors was how they’d get the other team into the penalty with like 10 minutes remaining in the quarter, and then fail to capitalize on it. Jumpers, jumpers, jumpers. If they’re smart this year, they’ll drive, drive, and drive some more. Put those starters on the bench, and then maybe even piss off Rasheed enough to earn some technical free throws and bonus possessions.
haha i dont mean jump off the top rope! or body check! im just saying do the same things they do that WE DONT!!!!
btw i saw this on tv last night so maybe i got a clearer view of what perk and kg were doing and when bargs got that tech it was provoked by perk with and elbow TO THE THROAT off a free throw!! maybe you should tell him, the guy with the ring and the W that this isnt hockey.
and the “its just pre season” is tolerable when you’re playing the Twolves but when you’re in the 4th game against a division rival with healthy starting lineups thats just an excuse, because both teams were playing for real in that first half.ther’s no debating that.
I agree that the 15-20 minutes for DeRozan has been mentioned but over the last 2 games he has been their most consistant player plus he gets to the line which is a big hole on the team. I think he will be getting more than 20 minutes as they haven’t had anyone else show they are better. I think the 15-20 minutes was assuming Marco etc. would be better and he would get minutes to develope but again he is better right now! Marco plays no D and just wants to shoot. We don’t need shooters we need defenders and efficient players. THat’s what Wright and DeRozan are and Marco is not. Weems is a wildcard but I would caution that preseason is….well preseason.
Don’t forget it’s also pre-season for DeRozan. Besides that, I’m sure Jay won’t use DeRozan more simply because Belinelli isn’t performing. DeRozan isn’t a difference maker at this point in time. Between the two of them, the team will be much more vested in DeRozan’s development, so I expect them to use him the same amount as they would if Belinelli was performing.
That made no sense. DeRozan isn’t a difference maker? If you are saying he isn’t going to average 20 a game I agree but the difference he makes over Marco is huge!!! He fits with the starters because he plays D and doesn’t force things. Marco is the kind of guy that can score 20 a game for a crap team but all he does is score and he doesn’t do it with efficency. Your right that it’s just the preseason but what else do we have to go on? Marco has 2 years under his belt so you’d expect more than your getting. DD has improved by leaps and bounds over his first game. I completely disagree with your comment.
DD would get minutes no matter what but if the others aren’t as good which has been pretty clear in the preseason why would they give minutes to someone else like Marco over a better, younger player?
Some of you need to look past the points and rebounds and see what guys are actually doing and what the team NEEDS them to do. Marco would be a nice option for Charlotte who need scoring badly but we don’t need what he has to offer and he hasn’t shown he can ever score well. I am not about to throw the guy away because of a few bad preseason games and think he may come around but the thought that DD hasn’t taken a further bite into his minutes is silly. Marco might help the second unit but starting is out of the question to me.
I’m assuming that last paragraph was directed at other people since I never once mentioned Belinelli being any good, so not sure how I could be captivated by his points (or lack of rebounds). =P
You misunderstood what I meant by difference maker. Allow me to clarify.
I’m simply saying that the team has a plan for DeRozan’s development. They want to give him playing time, but without any needless pressure. They want him to grow without having his confidence crushed by the Kobes, Wades and Lebrons. For all this to happen, he will receive X number of minutes at certain points in the game, with Belinelli and Jack filling in the rest of the time.
HOWEVER, if Belinelli (or the entire team, for that matter) underwhelms, it would be silly to use DeRozan in a way that is inconsistent with their plan for his development. He’s not going to change the fortunes of the team drastically in the 5-10 extra minutes he might play. The only way you’ll see him take away Belinelli’s minutes is if it’s the difference between making and missing the playoffs, AND if it won’t hurt his development.
The kid only played one year in college, and didn’t even do that well until the latter part of the season, so you’re kidding yourself if you think he’s a Vince Carter or Lebron James (or even Jason Richardson) ready to be thrown into the fire. He’ll get his 15-20 minutes early on, and if he’s ready, he might get as much as 25 toward the end of the season, but you’re totally smoking the hype if you think he’s ready for 30 a night right now.
P.S. Nobody ever mentioned Belinelli starting so I’m not sure where that came from either.
The above may be true. Derozan still has a long way to go.
(and please don’t take what follows as me arguing something that you already know, I just want to weigh in on the subject)
Based on this preseason, Derozan’s shot selection and basketball intelligence has been significantly greater than Belineli’s, who gives me the impression that he needs to jack the ball every time someone passes it to him. Whether he has a good shot or not, he takes them off balance and usually out of offensive rhythm. When they sink, it looks incredible, but when they don’t you are left with wtf moment.
I also have not seen the defensive effort from Marco that he was so eager to demonstrate in his interviews. Maybe he is not quick enough or athletic enough to impact the game defensively, or maybe he is not as focused on that side of the game as he likes to imply.
In any event, Derozan as a teen kid, has played as good if not better than him on both ends of the floor, and he hasn’t played that great. Was it a steal from GSW, or are we just using someone else’s discareded futton? I don’t know… not a huge Belineli fan, but even I expected more.
100% agree. :-p
Just commenting to everyone J! Not saying anything you have said is stupid but if I differ I’ll tell you why. I have Raptors TV and have watched every game televised. The thing I’ve noticed is DD went from a shadow in the first game to a play maker in the 4th. He got taken apart by AI in game one and was the best player on the floor at times. He doesn’t force any bad shots which is consistant with his rep. He makes tons of mistakes but he’s trending up and to date Marco has looked bad gambling on D and wild shots.
J…you said Marco would get 18 a night not started. My Apologies! My only point was if you have Jack playing 10 (which I think is low) and DeRozan playing 20 (your coments about him playing the first minutes of the 1st and 3rd is an educated one as Triano said that in an interview) but you have a problem if you have 18 minutes going to Marco.
The problem is that if you watched the preseason games you would have seen that Marco has been awful on both ends and hasn’t done anything to earn anything more than spot minutes. The Raptors win 35 Games if he plays 18 minutes a night (assuming he doesn’t drastically improve) which isn’t impossible. Your “eyes” would tell you that it’s more than if the shot goes in, it’s how you take it, when you take it, etc. He hasn’t looked like an NBA player. He has very little skill off the dribble compared to advertised. He can pump fake and 1 dribble but thats it and he has no breakdown ability. Even if the shot goes down hes no better than Kapono. Your clearly a big Raptor fan so need I say more?!
I’m not trying to preach to anyone and I might be wrong. But my opinions are based on what I know about things and what I have SEEN WITH MY EYES. Box scores don’t tell you the whole story. I have NBA TV and watch 100 Games other than the Raptors which I never miss. I have watched all 3 Games on TV in the preseason. I’m an ESPN insider and Read everything on from Hollinger, Thorpe and the rest there along with Hoopsworld and Hoopshype. I love it!
DeRozan has looked so much better in the last 2 games that Triano and company must be thinking differently. They are in win now mode and they have a chance to win but the way Bellineli has played and the fact that Weems has spent the majority of his career in the D league indicate to me that Jack and DeRozan will make up more than the 30 minutes you are thinking. Not saying your wrong but I do think if you watched the games you would agree that if your goal is to win now then you have to play Jack and DeRozan 40 minutes a night to have your best team on the floor. Maybe not from game 1. Your minute ratio is sensible as you can’t judge anything after 8 preseason games with this many new players but I think when the dust settles after 15 games DeRozan will be the close to full time starter and finish the season with 25+ per game and jack will play more at SG as well.
The thought was also that Jack would finish games at SG but I even think DD will be in at the end of the game. He can make plays without the ball and he can defend 1 on 1. He needs to learn the offense and defense but he will learn well on the fly with the gifts he already has.
Yup, I’ve watched every single preseason game that I could get my hands on, and I agree Belinelli has been disappointing. Actually, let me correct myself — he hasn’t been disappointing because honestly, I didn’t expect anything from him. The only thing he’s done well so far is the occasional cut to the hoop, but those have been super rare. But, BC is in love with him, apparently, and that alone will guarantee that he’ll get the benefit of the doubt from JT. If anything is going to cut down on his minutes though, it’ll be his apparent lack of chemistry with Jack. They’re on the floor together a lot but for some reason it seems like they’re playing on two different channels.
DeRozan has been okay so far. He definitely doesn’t seem like a bust so far, and while he seems to have more positives than negatives so far, he tends to disappear like in the game against the Celtics. I love that he’s been driving a lot (and drawing fouls) but he’s clearly not a solid NBA player yet. That Belinelli has been worse is hugely irrelevant IMO. If Belinelli can’t play, I bet we’ll be seeing his minutes split between Wright and Jack (Wright moreso).
Game live at
http://www.rajangan.net/template_live.php?ida=56
Ustream Live version:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/so-desporto
Orlando Sentinel
Can you see any parallels to the New Raptors ???
Pops will have a good year in Houston’s system, under Adelman. He will be a very good 3rd or 4th big man.
He jsut put in a better preformance in 24min than any of our big men ahve in all of preseason.
Huston got him for 800K.
Considering this teams weakness was rebounding, I honestly don’t understand why we did not figure out a way to re-sign him.
That was a bad game. I know it is preseason and all and ….. but getting stuffed 120 points from Huston with Yao, McGrady and scola is embaressing , specially when u have been using defence as the slogan of ur training camp and u are playing at home !!!!!!
I think this game should ring some warning bells for everyone.
I know
Nothing will change unless we get rid of Richard Peddie and Larry Tanenbaum. No one seems to grasp that they are the cancer that ails the Leafs, Raptors, Toronto FC. You can have any world class GM or coach in the world working for MLSE, the same results will occur. No playoffs.
Colangelo was hired to turn a profit for the Raptors not to win games. His mantra is to make enough quick fixes each year and hopefully something clicks. A complete rebuild contradicts what MLSE is all about.
A top notch GM does not draft Andrea Bargnani with the #1 pick
A top notch GM does not re-sign Jose Calderon, period. He is a backup.
A top notch GM does not sign a 30 year old Hedo Turkoglu for 5 years.
A top notch GM does not hire Jay Triano to lead an NBA franchise.
Nothing will change this season and years to come unless Ownership is changed.
Oh and to Chris Bosh
Win against a 500% team for once in your career.
500%??
You good commenter. You sense make.
Ask Dwight Howard if Bosh can beat a .500 team.
Toodles, moron.
Watch who you call a moron.
I’m stating facts.
Bosh has never beat a 500 team in his entire career. I can document that for you if you want me too.
Bosh can beat an Orlando team without there starting point guard?
I’m not saying he doesn’t try his hardest but has he ever fought for a win against Garnette, Gasol, Amare, Millsap, Perkins, Rasheed, Lebron, Duncan, any of those guys? Legitimate question
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