Comments on: Early advantage to DeRozan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/ The Penultimate Toronto Raptors Fan Website Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:11:02 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Jonathan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41739 Jonathan Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:25:49 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41739 Agreed. Remember when we were trying to give Moon a nickname? It's like going on a first date and saying "I love you" -- no class and super premature. I'll give Bosh's nickname some slack, since it apparently has to do with a movie (eh...), but what was the rationale behind CP3? Bosh did it first, or wow, the letters rhyme with the number? Last I heard, CP3 stood for the Center for Particle Physics and Phenomenology. I guess that's sort of fitting for Chris Paul. You know, after Paul Pierce and Allen Iverson got their nicknames, I fully expected variations of The Real Answer, The Real Truth, and The Conclusion. I guess The Enigma, The Mystery and The Unanswered Question aren't very flattering. They've got to put a restriction on nicknames. Maybe you can't get one unless you have a good chance of having your number retired by a team. No nickname for DeRozan please. His name is unique enough as it is. Agreed. Remember when we were trying to give Moon a nickname? It's like going on a first date and saying "I love you" — no class and super premature.

I'll give Bosh's nickname some slack, since it apparently has to do with a movie (eh…), but what was the rationale behind CP3? Bosh did it first, or wow, the letters rhyme with the number? Last I heard, CP3 stood for the Center for Particle Physics and Phenomenology. I guess that's sort of fitting for Chris Paul.

You know, after Paul Pierce and Allen Iverson got their nicknames, I fully expected variations of The Real Answer, The Real Truth, and The Conclusion. I guess The Enigma, The Mystery and The Unanswered Question aren't very flattering.

They've got to put a restriction on nicknames. Maybe you can't get one unless you have a good chance of having your number retired by a team. No nickname for DeRozan please. His name is unique enough as it is.

]]> By: Jonathan http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41737 Jonathan Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:08:59 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41737 Exactly. I don't know the fascination with Bargs at the 3. I just cringe at the thought of Jose, Hedo, Bargnani, Bosh and Reggie being on the floor at the same time. Slow, slow, slow. Bargnani can't guard 3s, and Hedo can't guard 2s. Leave him at the 5 where his man defense has been decent. Plus, Hardcore Raps, it's impossible to have Bosh and Bargnani not on the floor together for most of their minutes, unless you want to lower Bargnani's minute's to 20 or less a game. Exactly. I don't know the fascination with Bargs at the 3. I just cringe at the thought of Jose, Hedo, Bargnani, Bosh and Reggie being on the floor at the same time. Slow, slow, slow. Bargnani can't guard 3s, and Hedo can't guard 2s. Leave him at the 5 where his man defense has been decent.

Plus, Hardcore Raps, it's impossible to have Bosh and Bargnani not on the floor together for most of their minutes, unless you want to lower Bargnani's minute's to 20 or less a game.

]]> By: Hardcore Raps http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41675 Hardcore Raps Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:40:56 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41675 Rondo did not start hitting jumpers at all... some teams didnt have the personel to do this and therefore didnt. Other teams just chose not to. But regardless its just an example of how it could work. -Chris Bosh has a better chance of defending the 3 than Bargnani- thats just what the Raps could do (or use Amir to cover 3s). Just because a player is a SF doesnt mean they have to cover that position. Regardless, all I can say is we can disagree on whether length can make up for quickness (I think there is a fair argument for both), its just something I wish we could have atleast seen... in more detail than a few random samples that we got. Rondo did not start hitting jumpers at all… some teams didnt have the personel to do this and therefore didnt. Other teams just chose not to. But regardless its just an example of how it could work.

-Chris Bosh has a better chance of defending the 3 than Bargnani-

thats just what the Raps could do (or use Amir to cover 3s). Just because a player is a SF doesnt mean they have to cover that position.

Regardless, all I can say is we can disagree on whether length can make up for quickness (I think there is a fair argument for both), its just something I wish we could have atleast seen… in more detail than a few random samples that we got.

]]> By: Tim W. http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41673 Tim W. Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:53:09 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41673 A lot of teams were putting bigs on Rondo because he couldn't shoot. He started hitting from the perimeter and teams stopped doing that. Bargnani cannot make up for his lack of quickness at SF with his length because most SF's can actually shoot the ball. He would either give up a ton of jumpers or a ton of drives. I think Chris Bosh has a better chance of defending the 3 than Bargnani. And Bargnani has much bigger weaknesses at SF than at center. I think he's actually a half decent defender at center (after believing he would be a poor defender when he came out). He doesn't have a lot of strength to bang against the big centers, yet, but where his length comes in handy is at center, where his size can help him against post ups. Besides, while Bargnani will struggle against Shaq and Howard defensively (who doesn't?), you have to realize how they will struggle on the other end. Who exactly are they going to guard? Instead of having Nesterovic guarding Shaq or Howard, and making them exert little effort on the defensive end, why not use what the Raptors have to their advantage? Both Bosh and Bargnani can draw them out of their comfort zone in the middle and open things up for everyone else. Can you see Turkoglu and Calderon running pick and rolls against Howard and Shaq with guys that are quicker than them and can shoot from outside? Quite frankly, Cleveland, and Orlando to a point, is exactly the type of team that the Raptors could give fits to because of matchups, much like Orlando beat Cleveland in the playoffs because of matchups. A lot of teams were putting bigs on Rondo because he couldn’t shoot. He started hitting from the perimeter and teams stopped doing that. Bargnani cannot make up for his lack of quickness at SF with his length because most SF’s can actually shoot the ball. He would either give up a ton of jumpers or a ton of drives. I think Chris Bosh has a better chance of defending the 3 than Bargnani.

And Bargnani has much bigger weaknesses at SF than at center. I think he’s actually a half decent defender at center (after believing he would be a poor defender when he came out). He doesn’t have a lot of strength to bang against the big centers, yet, but where his length comes in handy is at center, where his size can help him against post ups.

Besides, while Bargnani will struggle against Shaq and Howard defensively (who doesn’t?), you have to realize how they will struggle on the other end. Who exactly are they going to guard? Instead of having Nesterovic guarding Shaq or Howard, and making them exert little effort on the defensive end, why not use what the Raptors have to their advantage? Both Bosh and Bargnani can draw them out of their comfort zone in the middle and open things up for everyone else. Can you see Turkoglu and Calderon running pick and rolls against Howard and Shaq with guys that are quicker than them and can shoot from outside? Quite frankly, Cleveland, and Orlando to a point, is exactly the type of team that the Raptors could give fits to because of matchups, much like Orlando beat Cleveland in the playoffs because of matchups.

]]> By: Hardcore Raps http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41671 Hardcore Raps Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:09:09 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41671 Its amazing how much size can compensate for lack of speed on the perimiter. Example... Knicks used Harrington to cover Rondo one game last year. Rondo could do nothing... not because he wasnt quicker (he is exceptionally quicker), but rather because he couldnt get around him and Harringtons made the pass to the wing much more difficult to make. Knicks won that game. However, being taught that vs being taught and trained for center is a much different situation. Right from the get go it was all center... then they had a thought, hey lets try him at sf. Thats a big positional change to be thrown into. I just think it MAY have been a different story if the intitial tactics were different (not saying it WOULD have worked.. but rather it COULD have worked) There he has the options to both post up and shoot over his defender.... he still has strength at SF at both ends. So far, at center, he on has strengths at one end. I just think that the only weakness AB would have at SF is quickness... at C he has a number of them. Bargs strengths may shine at C on offense; penetration and shooting, but his weakness are also glaring; defense, rebounding, getting post position. As long as a team needs to find others to make up for a Cs weak rebounding... that team will always be a weak rebounding team (the center should be compensating for others weak rebounding... example Dwight Howard) Anyways, never really expected people to like the idea (everyone wants a true 7fter at C) but I always wonder what could have been had they approached Bargs differently. Its amazing how much size can compensate for lack of speed on the perimiter. Example… Knicks used Harrington to cover Rondo one game last year. Rondo could do nothing… not because he wasnt quicker (he is exceptionally quicker), but rather because he couldnt get around him and Harringtons made the pass to the wing much more difficult to make. Knicks won that game.

However, being taught that vs being taught and trained for center is a much different situation. Right from the get go it was all center… then they had a thought, hey lets try him at sf. Thats a big positional change to be thrown into. I just think it MAY have been a different story if the intitial tactics were different (not saying it WOULD have worked.. but rather it COULD have worked) There he has the options to both post up and shoot over his defender…. he still has strength at SF at both ends. So far, at center, he on has strengths at one end. I just think that the only weakness AB would have at SF is quickness… at C he has a number of them.

Bargs strengths may shine at C on offense; penetration and shooting, but his weakness are also glaring; defense, rebounding, getting post position. As long as a team needs to find others to make up for a Cs weak rebounding… that team will always be a weak rebounding team (the center should be compensating for others weak rebounding… example Dwight Howard)

Anyways, never really expected people to like the idea (everyone wants a true 7fter at C) but I always wonder what could have been had they approached Bargs differently.

]]> By: Tim W. http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41667 Tim W. Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:46:42 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41667 You think Bargnani will stay on the floor long enough to post up guys if he's getting blown by every time on defense, racking up either fouls for himself, those behind him, or giving up points? Sure, there's the mismatch down low, but that's certainly not his strength. Despite his deficiencies in the rebounding department, Bargnani is best playing PF or C, not SF. That's where his strengths will shine. His rebounding weakness can be covered by teammates when he's at center, but getting blown by by quicker players at SF can't be covered, especially with no Dwight Howard on the roster. You think Bargnani will stay on the floor long enough to post up guys if he’s getting blown by every time on defense, racking up either fouls for himself, those behind him, or giving up points? Sure, there’s the mismatch down low, but that’s certainly not his strength. Despite his deficiencies in the rebounding department, Bargnani is best playing PF or C, not SF. That’s where his strengths will shine. His rebounding weakness can be covered by teammates when he’s at center, but getting blown by by quicker players at SF can’t be covered, especially with no Dwight Howard on the roster.

]]> By: Craig http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41659 Craig Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:49:02 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41659 If they don't start well, the excuse will be that 7 of the first 8 teams they play were playoff teams last year... and that is followed by a 4 game west road trip. If they don’t start well, the excuse will be that 7 of the first 8 teams they play were playoff teams last year… and that is followed by a 4 game west road trip.

]]> By: Hardcore Raps http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41652 Hardcore Raps Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:19:15 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41652 like I said size... that potential to post up or force another team to play to your style will win you games. Those small guards wont stay on the floor if Bargs posts them up every time down.... then Bargs can start bombing the big man tryin gto pose as a 3. You get other teams to match up to you... it always leads to an advantage like I said size… that potential to post up or force another team to play to your style will win you games.

Those small guards wont stay on the floor if Bargs posts them up every time down…. then Bargs can start bombing the big man tryin gto pose as a 3. You get other teams to match up to you… it always leads to an advantage

]]> By: Tim W. http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41649 Tim W. Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:03:09 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41649 There haven't been good nicknames for players in decades. Let's look at these nicknames... "Magic" Johnson Larry "Legend" "Air" Jordan "Doctor" J Clyde "The Glide" "The Mailman" "The Round Mound of Rebound" "Iceman" "The Human Highlight Reel" "The Chief" All those nicknames are synonymous with those players. And they perfectly describe them. Now look at more recent ones... "The Answer" "The Truth" "Melo" "Shaq" "CB4" "CP3" "Tough Juice" "The Big Ticket" "J-Kidd" "T-Mac" You've either got shortened versions of their name, which isn't really a nickname, their initials plus their number (ooh, how inventive!), or some bizarre name that doesn't really describe their play at all. And then you've got a special place in hell reserved for the people who nicknamed themselves... "Black Momba" "The Big Aristotle" At least Shaq's is funny because it's like calling a guy without a left hand lefty. The only nickname out there that really fits is The Big Fundamental. The rest seem to be nicknames simply for the sake of being nicknames. EVERYONE seems to have a nickname nowadays. You know what would be unique is to NOT have one. There haven’t been good nicknames for players in decades.

Let’s look at these nicknames…
“Magic” Johnson
Larry “Legend”
“Air” Jordan
“Doctor” J
Clyde “The Glide”
“The Mailman”
“The Round Mound of Rebound”
“Iceman”
“The Human Highlight Reel”
“The Chief”

All those nicknames are synonymous with those players. And they perfectly describe them.

Now look at more recent ones…
“The Answer”
“The Truth”
“Melo”
“Shaq”
“CB4″
“CP3″
“Tough Juice”
“The Big Ticket”
“J-Kidd”
“T-Mac”

You’ve either got shortened versions of their name, which isn’t really a nickname, their initials plus their number (ooh, how inventive!), or some bizarre name that doesn’t really describe their play at all.

And then you’ve got a special place in hell reserved for the people who nicknamed themselves…
“Black Momba”
“The Big Aristotle”

At least Shaq’s is funny because it’s like calling a guy without a left hand lefty.

The only nickname out there that really fits is The Big Fundamental. The rest seem to be nicknames simply for the sake of being nicknames.

EVERYONE seems to have a nickname nowadays. You know what would be unique is to NOT have one.

]]> By: Tim W. http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41645 Tim W. Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:42:06 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41645 Bargnani started 12 games at SF last season, and shot well below what he shot when he started at center. Plus, he will never be able to guard most SF's in the league, no matter how many minutes he plays at the position. At SF, Bargnani is just a slow, footed 7-footer who can shoot and not defend. At center, he's one of the quicker players at that position who can do things that few, if any, centers can do (unfortunately none of those things is rebounding). At center, he's unique and can cause matchup problems because he draws big men who aren't used to it out. At SF, what he does isn't unique in the least. Why would you want him to start at SF? Bargnani started 12 games at SF last season, and shot well below what he shot when he started at center. Plus, he will never be able to guard most SF’s in the league, no matter how many minutes he plays at the position. At SF, Bargnani is just a slow, footed 7-footer who can shoot and not defend. At center, he’s one of the quicker players at that position who can do things that few, if any, centers can do (unfortunately none of those things is rebounding). At center, he’s unique and can cause matchup problems because he draws big men who aren’t used to it out. At SF, what he does isn’t unique in the least. Why would you want him to start at SF?

]]> By: whalleywhat http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41639 whalleywhat Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:09:17 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41639 John Smith's mother is a whore?! John Smith’s mother is a whore?!

]]> By: FAQ http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41624 FAQ Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:31:58 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41624 Nickname for Demar??? How about DeForce ??!!! (deforce - to deprive forcefully of property) Demar <b>"DeForce"</b> Derozan ... PUUUURFECT ...!!!!! Nickname for Demar???

How about DeForce ??!!!

(deforce – to deprive forcefully of property)

Demar “DeForce” Derozan … PUUUURFECT …!!!!!

]]> By: Assistant GM http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41622 Assistant GM Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:24:28 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41622 This lineup makes more sense! Bargnani actually played the 3 for Benetton when we drafted him, but he was a lot skinnier then. The Raps have bulked him up over the last few years. There is no way that he can go back to ever playing the 3 with effectiveness IMO! This lineup makes more sense! Bargnani actually played the 3 for Benetton when we drafted him, but he was a lot skinnier then. The Raps have bulked him up over the last few years. There is no way that he can go back to ever playing the 3 with effectiveness IMO!

]]> By: Realist at the 3 http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41608 Realist at the 3 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:19:58 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41608 Come on with the praise of Weems on this website already! Everyday, this website talks of him as some superhero diamond in the rough. Today's article doesn't even reference the fact that he MAY have weaknesses! His best comparison is Jamario Moon, because they were both bottom-of-the -bench guys when signed. Would anyone even want Moon on the Raptors' roster anymore? Not much of a comparison. I understand he's played exceptionally well for a 14th or 15th guy in nonsense preseason games, but you have to be insane to believe he has even the slightest chance of cracking the Raptors' rotation without big-time injuries. Both of the guys expected to play the 3 haven't hit the floor yet, of course he's playing a bunch! I like the guy, I think he has a chance of becoming a good role-player eventually, but he's not in the league of even the Raptors' rotation wings yet. Come on with the praise of Weems on this website already! Everyday, this website talks of him as some superhero diamond in the rough. Today’s article doesn’t even reference the fact that he MAY have weaknesses! His best comparison is Jamario Moon, because they were both bottom-of-the -bench guys when signed. Would anyone even want Moon on the Raptors’ roster anymore? Not much of a comparison.

I understand he’s played exceptionally well for a 14th or 15th guy in nonsense preseason games, but you have to be insane to believe he has even the slightest chance of cracking the Raptors’ rotation without big-time injuries. Both of the guys expected to play the 3 haven’t hit the floor yet, of course he’s playing a bunch!

I like the guy, I think he has a chance of becoming a good role-player eventually, but he’s not in the league of even the Raptors’ rotation wings yet.

]]> By: LukeCage22 http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41601 LukeCage22 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:48:51 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41601 I completely agree. It felt forced when Devlin said it the first time, and it also doesn't sound like it suits Derozan. I like the sounds of Dynamite on its own or something like Ten Deep (because of his number) or something like D Ring Circus. Just my thoughts though. I completely agree. It felt forced when Devlin said it the first time, and it also doesn’t sound like it suits Derozan. I like the sounds of Dynamite on its own or something like Ten Deep (because of his number) or something like D Ring Circus. Just my thoughts though.

]]> By: thecaustic http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41586 thecaustic Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:38:42 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41586 Nice job Arse. I think at the beginning of the season Jay will go with Demar as the starting 2, and Beli will come off the bench with the second unit. To start a rookie it'is not so usual, but the need to develop him is very important. I imagine Triano will go with something similar to what the Blazers have done all year with N. Batum, starting him but for a limited number of minutes. Beli on the other hand will hopefully just do great coming off the bench against second units, and he might be devastating in that role. But since the Raps are in a win-now mode this season, the 2 spot strategy might change swiftly during the year due to team's results. Anyhow, we really got a nice set of combinations between Jack, Marco, Jose, Demar, Sonny and Antoine (Douby and Banks? Dunno really...). At the end it might be an issue of distributing minutes, and cure discontent. Nice job Arse.
I think at the beginning of the season Jay will go with Demar as the starting 2, and Beli will come off the bench with the second unit. To start a rookie it’is not so usual, but the need to develop him is very important. I imagine Triano will go with something similar to what the Blazers have done all year with N. Batum, starting him but for a limited number of minutes. Beli on the other hand will hopefully just do great coming off the bench against second units, and he might be devastating in that role. But since the Raps are in a win-now mode this season, the 2 spot strategy might change swiftly during the year due to team’s results. Anyhow, we really got a nice set of combinations between Jack, Marco, Jose, Demar, Sonny and Antoine (Douby and Banks? Dunno really…). At the end it might be an issue of distributing minutes, and cure discontent.

]]> By: EarthJuice http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41576 EarthJuice Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:06:17 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41576 Good writeup. One thing I would add to the edge DeRozan may have in minutes at SG, would be his pedigree (Lottery 1st Round draft choice) vs. Bellinelli (DeVean George). Being a lottery pick, they have a lot more invested in him. If he doesn't play, he doesn't develop. Props. Good writeup.

One thing I would add to the edge DeRozan may have in minutes at SG, would be his pedigree (Lottery 1st Round draft choice) vs. Bellinelli (DeVean George).

Being a lottery pick, they have a lot more invested in him.

If he doesn’t play, he doesn’t develop.

Props.

]]> By: wesmantooth http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41574 wesmantooth Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:01:27 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41574 thats what im sayin! inorganic thats what im sayin! inorganic

]]> By: Josh http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41573 Josh Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:56:16 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41573 Ez-D is his name and the boy is comin' straight outta Compton. http://www.nbadraft.net/files/players/demar-derozan-hd_0.jpg Ez-D is his name and the boy is comin’ straight outta Compton.

http://www.nbadraft.net/files/players/demar-derozan-hd_0.jpg

]]> By: Brain Colangelo http://raptorsrepublic.com/2009/10/12/early-advantage-to-derozan/#comment-41572 Brain Colangelo Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:36:07 +0000 http://raptorsrepublic.com/?p=11263#comment-41572 Or SpiDe (pr. Spidey) Or SpiDe (pr. Spidey)

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