Life after the NBA for Banks??
Seems like Colangelo wasn’t ready for his summer vacation. Word on the street is that the Raptors and Mavericks are in talks to swap Marcus Banks for Matt Carroll. Yes, a post dedicated to two over-paid players, one of who’s only NBA skill is salary filler to satisfy CBA salary rules during player transactions.
At first glance, I liked this trade if only to jettison Banks from the Raptors, but then it dawned on me: why the hell do we want to trade a dud who has two years and $9mill left on his contract for a dud who has four years and $16.7mil left on his contract.
As pissed as we are with Banks right now, imagine how we will feel about Carroll at the end of 2011 when he will still have two years and $7.5mil left on his contract?
The timing of Banks’ expiring contract couldn’t be coming at a better time. With the salary expected to shrink significantly over the next two years, teams (especially the broke ones) will be looking to get under the CAP in an effort to control losses, avoid the luxury tax and such.
It’s all very technical, but needless to say, when the cheap/poorly run teams need to shed some salary, BryCo will be there, with an ear-to-ear grin and demands bordering on sodomy to ‘liberate’ said team from the grips of the luxury tax (or help minimize financial losses).
Anyways, back to Banks…
I have thought about what it would take to get rid of the guy, and two scenarios come to mind:
1) We can’t keep Bosh, so we S&T him, along with Banks, for pieces (much like the last two Marion trades)
2) He gets traded for an equally bad contract, or for a better player with a longer or bad contract.
I’d say Carroll falls into the latter category, but since he isn’t a better player, I’ll take a pass – hopefully BC is too drunk on his golden summer touch to wave his wand and make this deal happen (or hopefully it is expanded to net us a good player or a first round pick or something useful – which is a different conversation).
177 Raps
I don’t get this criticism. Since BC has arrived in Toronto, what exactly has lead you to believe that he will be unable to trade Carroll’s contract before it expires???
What makes you think that BC can find any other options for Banks in the next two years?
sorry, typo.
What makes you think that BC CAN’T find any other options for Banks in the next two years?
Ahhh, ok, that makes more sense. I think there will be better options for Banks in the next year and half then Matt Carroll.
Well, after this coming season, Banks will be a $4.75mill expiring contract. With the Cap shrinking, that is a valuable asset. More so then Carroll’s contract.
One thing Raps Fan Banks contract increases next year and with a falling cap and luxury tax most teams wouldn’t want him anyways even if he’s an expiring. With Carroll’s contract it decreases every year. 09/10-4.7 mil, 10/11-4.3 mil, 11/12-3.9 mil, and 12/13-3.5 mil. We can trade him in two years were his contract is pretty reasonable. Plus we save money and lessen the luxury tax burden.
Wouldn’t that make Banks more valuable? The higher an expiring contract, the more cap relief? No??
Problem for us is that we’d be in the tax next year if he’s still on our roster and MLSE doesn’t want to go into the tax. That’s the main reason why they’ll going for Carroll we save money for that year.
Banks will be an expiring contract in the big free agent summer of 2011…oh wait…no one will be spending…they’ll all be broke from 2010
In 2011, teams will still prefer to have his contract over Carroll’s.
That’s a different conversation IMO. BC would probably be able to trade Carroll’s contract, but not for 2 years (because it is so bad), at which point Banks would have already expired or could be used in a trade as an expiring contract. I think that is fair to say, no?
AGREED!!!!!!!!!! If he can offload Banks for anything, why couldnt he offload Barnes down the road? it helps reduce the tax level in the next couple of years and then as i would assume the tax level will go back up and he’s on the books…oh well…not a crippler…and dude can be our new K-Fraud-lite….
BC’s done very well this year. But its a significant risk (that he can’t unload it – or has to take on yet another poor contract).
This may not be a trade to get excited about but to call it a bad trade or, as I’ve read in the comments here, “… the stupidest trade ever” is assuming something that you shouldn’t: That DeRozan, Belinelli, Wright and to a much lesser extent, Jack, are enough to hold down three key roles on the team. You’re high if you don’t think we need some insurance. There’s very real possibility of DeRozan taking slow steps or even no steps forward. And Belinelli might be a good return on a cheap trick like Devean George, but put down that cup of Koolaid – this guy’s value to the club could go either way. Carroll is just another guy who’s a proven rotation player who can help out at both wing positions, whereas Banks offers nothing to the solution should this become a problem for any reason. Carroll’s offensive numbers as a starter compare to Anthony Parker’s, and while his defense will never be that of AP’s in his prime, he can help this team. Banks can’t.
Good post.
wats the point of this trade, were trading some1 with no value and who wont play this year for sum1 with no value and wont play…..and has a bigger contract, sry BC im not with you on tis one. matt carrol is a bum, why not keep banks and do the sign & trade or just let his contract expire. it looks like BC wants to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. unless were gettin some draft pick back this confuses me
Yea. I am pretty sure there is more to it than a straight up trade. If not, I would lose all my respect for BC. This trade would be a stupidest trade ever…
I wouldn’t make this trade even with cash considerations involved for (5-6) million. The only ways I would make this trade would be, if we also swap one of our scrubs with one of their talented low salary guys, or we get draft picks. Even a second round pick would not cut it…
I mean why? Matt Caroll is not going to get PT anyways. He is not even a back up SF. He is a SG. Our SG spot is one of the deepest positions on our roster. We don’t have quality but we at least have quantity on that position. And the addition of Caroll would just be quantity not quality…
hey u cant lose your respect for the guy, look wat he did, this is by far his worst moves this summer (BY FAR) but he still is a great GM. even the great ones make bad moves
I was always a BC fan from day one, but this trade is just too bad. I hate becoming a laughing stock around the NBA again. Like Memphis…
Nice comment, thanks for reminding us that fan is short for fanatic
I hear whispers that this deal was actually a spin off from the Marion deal. An agreement in principle that facilitated Cuban actively seeking out partners to make the Marion deal work.
I tend to believe these whispers.
If it is true, why did they not just do that on the trade day for Marion? It doesn’t make sense to me. Why would BC make himself look bad, where if he just included this trade on the trade day with 4 teams involved, fans and analysts would accept it.
One assumption is the trade was complicated enough and it may provided extra risk main deal that it may not get done (4 teams and all those players were enough, no?). Why not just have a gentlemen’s agreement and do it post, since the salaries are close? Cleaner.
it is definitely cleaner. i can actually accept this more then if it was lumped into the hedo trade.
Would make a lot of sense – great info.
(Plus, who would carry Marion’s bags, if not Banks?!)
I definitely buy this, but hopefully the NBA doesn’t go sniffing around or else we’ll get fucked like the T-Wolves did with Joe Smith
Not sure the 2 are comparable. The T’Wolves were blatantly circumventing the salary cap by paying Smith under the table. In this case I don’t see any rule breaking taking place. The only reason it wasn’t done before was to ensure the 4-way deal was facilitated.
Also, it’s very tough to prove the relationship between the two. Even if it becomes public knowledge that BC & Cuban were talking about this trade, both could easily say ‘we waited because we wanted to see how our rosters looked at the end of the summer’, at which point the trade was made. So I don’t really think there’s much risk.
As for the trade, I’m indifferent. The extra salary sucks, but Carroll can provide more than Banks. I imagine there comes a time this season where he’s inserted when we’re down 12, hits a couple quick 3s and turns the game around. There’s nothing Banks can do to turn a game like that.
Raps Fan… I agree with the value (both monetary and trade value) in the contracts… I’d much rather have Bank’s contract here than Carroll’s. However I would say Carroll is a better fit on this team than Banks (we MAY need another SF depending on injuries, play etc… another ball handler we DO NOT need). In that sense there may be some very short term benifit to it (1 year)… but a long term negative. So atleast it wouldn’t be a complete loss.
All said and done, if this trade does happen it would be BC’s worst move of the summer….
Carrol’s not a SF.
He’s 6-6 but his body type is much like luke ridnour’s.
Carrol can and has played sf throughout his career.
we dont need a shooter at sf tho, we need hustle, defence, and rebounding. we have shooters already, shooters who will see the floor, we dont need one who wont
What shooters are you talking about exactly?
Reserve 2/3 – Jack, Belinelli, DeRozan/Wright, Weems. Only one of those guys is even an above average shooter, whereas 3 provide toughness/hustle/defense.
If you listened to Jay Triano’s interview with Gord and Stellick on Fan 590 you would know that he is still looking for another shooter to join the team. I believe that this trade might have more to do with Triano than what is being reported.
Dude I understand that, but this is not a way to go about it. I mean Caroll has a game like Marco, but just 10x worst than Marco. The long term negatives are not worth it.
For every trade you have to ask yourself this. Would any other GM make this trade? Is this piece easy enough to move after this trade? Would I be on the winning side of the trade? Is this what I need, and am I getting better?
In the case of Hedo : No, not many GMs would give him this much money.
In the case of Hedo’s whole trade: Yes, Just Genius!
In the case of Evens: Yes, he would be a better piece than Kopano
In the case of Bargs: No one knows, but we probably could have gave him less. I do not see many GMs giving him 50 million extension. He could be a bargain or he could be one the worst contracts in the league. But I still think we could have gave less than 8 million/year based on his game right now.
In the case of Belleneli: Yes, Yes, and Yes. Best move of the summer!
In the case of Jack: Good addition, but about 1-1.5 million/year overpaid.
In the case of Rasho: Yes. Second best move of the summer!
In the case of Delfino: I would rather be on the other side of this trade. I think Milwauke won that trade. But we still became better.
In the case of Caroll: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Are you kidding me?
well said!
I disagree with most of your questions.
Who cares if other GMs would do the trade. You do a trade because YOU think it’ll make your team better off. Different Gms have different teams with different rosters with different finacial situations with different philosophies. People who succeed in business are the ones that do things differently, and not look around to see what other people think or if others would do it to. Only one GM won the championship last year. Also, you don’t go into a trade with one of your main thoughts being “how easy will it be to move the guy that I’m trading for”. That just a bad state of mind. GMs make moves based on what they think is best for their team, period. Everyone thinks they “Win” the trade. Who does a trade they think they “lose”. Winning a trade is just public perception and really, do you think any NBA GM truly gives a rats ass what us talking heads think about the moves they make?
“Is this what I need, and am I getting better?” – THAT is the only thing a GM is thinking about.
I agree with most of your post other than the whole no gm does a deal they think they lose…just ask the fans of the grizzlies…I think they make deals with the thought of how they can lose
The Grizz are sweet sweet deal facilitators!
lol, if no GM should care what everyone else thinks, then please tell me why the top contenders rarely make a questionable trade?
Look at San Antonio, Lakers, Boston, Cleaveland, and the Magics( except the Marcin Gortat signing). These have been the top contenders lately, and please tell me one move on each team that was questionable. Cleaveland seems to win on every trade they make (from the first glance always on the winners circles). Boston just keeps making sick trades. San Antonio just keeps rejuvinating their team without losing any talent or contention power, and the Lakers are just the Lakers they always been. On the other hand, teams like Dallas (over the tax every year) keep spending money on questionable move, and never seem to come close to contention.
SA traded Scola for nothing, the Lakers gave away Caron Butler for Kwame Brown, Boston signed Sam Cassell & Stephon Marbury to be backup PGs, the Cavs signed Larry Hughes & traded him for Ben Wallace, the Magic signed Rashard Lewis to the most ridiculous contract in the NBA. Shall I continue?
“lol, if no GM should care what everyone else thinks, then please tell me why the top contenders rarely make a questionable trade?”
- So your contention is that these teams make good trades because they think the general public will approve of them? First time I’ve heard that theory. Why even have a GM, just let online polls dictate personnel moves from now on.
If you’re evaluating moves from ‘first glance’ exclusively then your perception is way off.
Railing against the Amir Johnson trade isn’t helping your credibility on this topic either. There seems to be a near consensus on that move with you on the outside.
There is a difference between views before and after a specific move. So at the time didn’t these moves make sense? Weren’t they approved? Obviously organizations make mistake when the aftermath is revealed on the move they made, but how many times did those organizations make moves that didn’t make sense? And for Boston signing Cassell and Marbury, I think it was a good move. Both of those two years they went far, so I don’t know what you are talking about… They didn’t give up much for Cassell and they got Marbury for almost nothing because he was already bought out…
RAPMAN:
“Weren’t they approved? [...] Obviously organizations make mistake when the aftermath is revealed on the move they made, but how many times did those organizations make moves that didn’t make sense?”
Make sense to whom? You? Me? The GM? One sports analyst or another? The majority of fans? The majority of analysts? I’m not sure whose opinion (aside from your own, perhaps) you want to be the royal standard. The Amir trade may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to a lot of other people. Does that make it a questionable trade that doesn’t make sense? I don’t know how you can even show that a deal makes sense, when it’s all subjective opinion.
Some exceptions to your thoughts:
Delfino – with all the moves by BC, the minutes would just not be available for Carlos. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
Carroll trade – since nothing is final, we should wait till it’s officially announced, before ripping BC. And who knows how things will turn out – I think both players have a chance to change their “shit” status. A change of scenery might just be that, and then again, it might be more.
Hedo – I think there’s too much concern about the latter years of his deal. BC has me convinced that anything is possible, when backed into a corner.
Bargs Deal – If he busts, yeah … this deal sucks. But if he picks it up even more then he did in 2009, then I really like this deal. I’m betting on the latter.
Rasho – I think this was an absolute steal (taking into account his cost)
If Belinelli was our best move of the summer, then boy, our summer must really have sucked!
Not saying it was a bad trade, but come on.
By best move of the summer, I meant in the people’s perspective. Everyone could see GS made a mistake. We got a capable player with a low salary, for virtually nothing (1.6 cash).
Everyone can get great players like Turgolu if they put the right money forward. But I am talking about winning a deal. Rasho and Belleneli signing was a major win for the Raptors. Signing Hedo to 10mil/year for five years…. not so much, because many teams around the league could have signed him if they wanted to spend that much money. The Amir trade was nothing special. Even’s trade was just about even. And any other team could have signed Jack easily if they offered him 5 million a year…
“Everyone could see GS made a mistake.”
Again, purely subjective opinion, and one I don’t think you can back up. I thought Golden State made a mistake too, until I thought about it a bit deeper and realized it meant the team wasn’t going to pick up Belinelli’s option in October, and effectively saved on his entire salary this season.
So how *do* you judge this trade? Does a team “win” the trade just by having the better player (Belinelli vs George), regardless of the fact that we are paying George’s salary? If you want to say its the trade that Raptors fans have the least amount of trouble digesting, then sure. Aside from that, its one of the moves that will have the smallest positive impact on the Raps.
And how is Rasho a major win? I love Rasho but you can make the same argument for him that you made for Jack. Had the Raptors not offered him that contract, he would have signed with another team for that money. Seems like you are awarding one signing for its popularity amongst fans (again, your subjective view of it, since there were plenty of naysayers when Rasho was signed), while penalizing another for not being the best value. Not exactly the most consistent of standards?
“10x worse than Marco”
Stats don’t support you, so this is pure opinion based on nothing.
Carroll has had some decent games when he’s played against the raps. To be fair, these are the only games I’ve seen him play. However, I don’t have any memories of Marcus Banks doing anything other than sitting on the bench looking disinterested.
The problem is that there is not enough minutes for all 15 guys to play – we need some POB/Banks/Douby/Weems guys to sit on the bench and wave towels…
Except Banks never waved a towel in his life.
there must be a better way to get rid of this guy, i mean when your being dealt for mat carrol maybe its time to call it quits. why cant we waive him and sign a sharpshooter for less. and y arent we getting udoka?
some1 who plays D and can shoot the 3 instead of trading bums, lets drop banks and pick up some1 usefull
If Udoka was they player everyone makes him out to be he would have swept the floor with a 48 y/o Bruce Bowen and been the starting SF for the Spurs, nevermind the fact that the league isnt exactly fighting over his services at the moment…
There are so many reasons we can’t waive him that they’re impossible to list. They all revolve around the CBA/salary cap/luxury tax.
If that’s your opposition to this move then you’re in trouble. Plus, we ARE trading for a guy that can shoot the 3 that you seem to covet. Unfortunately there aren’t many 3 point shooting, good defenders willing to sign for the minimum. Otherwise I’d agree.
Very well-thought-out post.
I’d just like to add… When you say Carroll is a better player, you might be proven wrong. Yeah, Carroll was AWFUL last season. Absolutely awful. But before that, he really wasn’t that bad. He could shoot very, very well. If he returns to that (admittedly average) form, he’s an upgrade over Banks.
I’m not saying that it’s a great move, even then, ’cause with all our 2-guards he might not see much court time anyway. Just saying Carroll was a serviceable guy until last season.
It is evident by statistics, but Carrol was playing for a BAD team. If opponents play against bad teams, they slack off and give Matt Carrol open looks because their opponents know that they are ahead by 20 pts or it’s early in the game and the opponent can come back easily.
If you look at Carroll’s stats he is no where near as bad a player as Banks. In fact, he put up solid stats from 04-08. Not spectacular, but per minute they are almost the exact same as what we got from parker over the last 3 years.
Did banks not put up good stats in his career year?
They both got good contracts and stopped playing well.
Though Carrol’s rational for his bad play is more because he saw a decrease in minutes after J-Rich and then later Raja Bell
wee are almost at the point where banks comes off the books, why would we get oursevles stuck with a new scrub for 3 more years at the same price?
waive banks, sign a “shooter” for jay and lets go to camp and start gelling from now
Even if we waive Banks, I don’t think we don’t have too much left to get another player. Need to check this more…
If we waive Banks, we are about a million point something according to BCs latest Fan590 interview.
We’ll have 14 players and that is enough/
But we’d have to buy him out which means his contract is still on the books it does make a difference
then waive weems, and sign a shooter. keep banks till he expires or s&t him with bosh (if he leaves) , im up for any other soloution then gettin matt carrols large contract for his one skill.
has kopono taught us nothing?
So let me get this straight. We waive Banks. Piss $9+ million down the toilet and get what…
Kapono was always a good guy to have in theory. We now have another, cheaper shot at a similar player and we get to rid ourselves of an unneeded guard. This is a good, declining contract deal.
dont even compare him to kapono, kapono wasent great but his shot and quick release made him who he is, carrol is not in his league, have u watched him play, its like he’s afraid to touch the ball unless he open for 3. i remember watchin a charlette game and thinkin to myself, “wow this guy really is shit” true story, as soon as a defender comes to him he passes or olds the ball in the corner till a screen comes jus so he can pass, i really hate this trade. i kno im making a bigger deal out of it, but u know how it is when a baller u dont respect or like comes to your team.
and y does dallas want banks? i bet the blogger in dallas are just as confused, they have kidd and jj barea, and i thought they just drafted a pg? cuban and colangelo, worst move of the summer for both
Yes I have watched him play for many years. I stand by my statement and will compare the two as I please thanks. They’re both capable shooters, and with the Raps new size there is a chance he fits in. If not he is an end of the bench guy (just like on any other team) that is still saving us money each year.
you’ve watched matt carrol for many years? are you related or something?
3 times a year for many years… lol.
Anybody here a diehard bobcats fan that recorded all their games and analyzed Matt Carroll?
Yes yes … he is my long lost nephew and it pains me so when everyone dogs him like this. *sniffle*
No of course not, I just watch a hell of a lot of bball, and not just the Raptors (as I’m sure we all do). I always liked the way Carrol and Kapono used to go at each other.
Anyway, the brain trust wanted another shooter. Kapono didn’t work out, so we got a rebounder from him. Now we’ve gone out and got another shooter to try and fill that void. I think JK and MC are comparable … you don’t … that’s cool. The guy is (likely) going to be on the end of the bench this year and might have a better chance at a spot next year when a few of our contracts end. He shoots 40% from three which is dangerous even if it is sparing, and we needed to gain back something of a shooter as we lost AP and JK (and Delfino).
thats true, but honestly carrol? we have enough shooters to last thru this season(look at philly, no shooters and they make the playoffs), we have enough 3 point shooters. lets get some damn defence . if carrol came at a reasonable price id be praising BC but for the same salery as banks not cool
I’m just not sure it could have happened any other way. As I think was already mentioned that might have been the only deal available for a guy like Banks. Who knows.
I like to think we get some burn out of MC, Banks not so much.
I felt the same way watching Carroll on those horrible Bobcat teams.
But it was odd watching another team and thinking, whew I’m glad that guy is not on the Raptors.
He shoots three’s and shot them well… teams were snoozing against the bobcats and furthermore opposing teams would leave him wide open often.
Where as Kapono was always closely guarded at the three at least.
Well, Dallas wants Banks in the same way we don’t want Banks. Because they will be getting rid of a shitty long contract.
i always read this shit about how a team can always use a shooter, we dont have a reddick, korver, JK type of player no more, and honestly banks’ face is beginning to annoy me, i say do this trade, despite the contract implications…. however, i will be eating these words as soon as carroll’s face begins to annoy me…u cant win, u just cant win…
Belinelli
meaning the “one trick pony player, whos trick is shooting” belinelli has mulitiple skills.
I’m on the fence with this deal. It certainly does not guarantee greener pastures ahead, and Carroll is just as much of a dud as Banks. Only difference is they would have roughly 700k to 1 mill in extra flexibility per season (not much, I know) over the next two years if they do this move. Obviously those next two years will be crucial with some big free agent years and a potential lock out on the other side of it, and who knows, maybe BC is saving them pennies for something! Every little bit helps I guess…
Also besides the financial aspect of the deal there is also a chance to get someone who may be more of a locker room guy as apposed to Banks who may not have the same personality, especially after snubbing an invite to earn his keep in summer league, and will not be guaranteed any court time this year. Attitude in the locker room can destroy some of the most talented teams, and becoming the equivalent of “New York Knicks North” isn’t something that the fans, or BC want any hint of this year after what was a failure of a season last year. If the rotation players mesh well this year, and the supporting cast all play their part it could be a great year. Douby already showed his willingness to have a good attitude and take what he is given, and I believe Carroll would fit that same mold.
heres a youtube mix for matt carroll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpiRwc7zSOA
Although Carroll’s contract is 2 years longer it is a reasonable declining contract. Not saying it’s a good contact because it’s bad…but i mean J.K’s contract was double the amount. After watching the mix he seems to be more of a jason kapono type of player to me. Instead of having Banks contributing nothing for 2 years we can have Carroll. He can also provide leadership to marco. Like triano said we could use another shooter, as of now we only have macro, jose, bargs and turk who can be a consistent 3 point threat. if bosh decides to walk we can possible get back more in a S&T with carroll then banks.
Carroll to provide leadership to Marco is like
Yogi Stewart brought in to provide leadership to POB and Johnson.
leadership? where has he ever been a leader, or a starter, only thing he leads to is the bench
He’s started just a little less than 25% of all the games he’s played in his career, and he averaged over 20 minutes a game over 4 seasons in Charlotte (including two seasons of over 25 mpg)
As Mr. De Zen mentioned above, Carroll was bad last year. Very bad. However, he is by NO MEANS a scrub of Marcus Banks proportions. When he has been given the opportunity to contribute, he has (better than 40% from three in both years he saw more than 25 mpg, and about 10 ppg over the two seasons) Of course, that was all on a bad team, but the fact remains that if someone in our backcourt goes down at some point (which will happen) I would be infinitely more comfortable with what Carroll brings to the table than Banks.
The money, as mentioned above as well, helps us avoid the tax next season. The two extra years aren’t great, but it gives us some short term flexibility, and at the very least, Carroll brings a specific skill to the table, which Banks sure as hell didn’t.
Very well said. Its not the best deal, but I think that was the mentality BC was going for,
Everybody seems to forget that the MC trade will not only help keep us underneath the luxury tax but we will also recoup money from those teams that have went over the tax…Although MC isn’t a whole lot better than Banks, but he is better and he will at least be able to contribute some 3-pt shooting if need be. Everybody has been sounding off how much they would love to get rid of Banks and now that it appears to have happened, the pot isn’t sweet enough…give me a break. As for those who are bellyaching about his last two years in which his contract is decreasing Carroll could be our 3rd string SG or BC could work some more magic and get rid of his diminishing contract.
LOl
ROTD for 4pt_play
lets trade him for ronald mcdonald, get some free cheeseburgers at the acc
Dude, do not say that in front of Marco! he will beat the crap out you and Caroll both…
maybe Carroll just didn’t fit in well with Larry Brown in charlotte and he can actually play like he did when he was given that contract. and maybe the trade actually saves them 700 000 the next 2 years. or maybe they get a guy who is a deadly shooter to add for bench depth.maybe everyone should just let colangelo do his job and shut-upp with the criticism when they dont know what they are talking aboutmaybe i should say maybe some more maybe maybemaybe
haha, you are not funny
I wonder if this trade rumor was leaked to the media (Doug Smith) to advertise how bad of a contract BC is willing to take back for Banks. By all indications, the talks are very preliminary, and really, I don’t see BC pulling the trigger on this one. He may very well be fishing for a backup SF, someone who is overpaid/longer contract. But adding Carroll to the glut of SG’s we already have makes no sense.
When i saw this rumour I was pretty excited, then i saw the length of carrol’s contract. If the player we traded for banks was better than carrol then it would be a good trade. But i guess we should keep him and he’ll be a valuable expiring contract. I’d try to trade O’bryant and Weems, or waive them, because they both are useless players. Then again, they’ll be in suits the whole year.
This is the worst trade that BC can do if he does not get a first round draft pick as well with it ( even that does not make it any better). It is so bad that I would rank it up there with VC trade to NJ. I don’t think there is any logic behind it. No team in their right minds in NBA will give a player who may see 3-5 minutes of floor time , a contract of 4 years worth 16.1 million.
Bad way to end a great summer for BC
Oh come on…it’s a 15th guy on the roster for a 12th guy on the roster kinda deal. Even if you don’t like the finances, putting it in the VC to NJ class is a massive overstatement.
yes, you are right. But paying additional 5.5 million for a guy who may see 4-5 minutes of action in given time is not the best move in my book. Lets face it, with the CAP coming down and … we will see more average player available in futurein 3-4 mill a year range in comming years.
I don’t know if you are stupid or just stupid. Marcus banks is a far less productive player than matt Carroll and in the minutes given to a player that low on the depth chart- matt could actualy produce with his deadly shooting. The best part of this deal is that his contract decreases every year, so it’s about an extra mill every year we own him, until his contract expires at $3.35M. Don’t write bullshit if you don’t know about it. This is a great trade idea- BC just keeps on going
There is not one reader/blogger on this site who know enough about the play of Banks or Carroll to offer a sound judgement.
Two weeks ago we all said Banks is untradable – well BC got rid of himn for someone who, if still with us, contribute more than what Banks would of.
Anyone concerned about the length of Carrolls contract has not been paying attention to the BC years.
Well I will take matt carroll and an extra mill every over marcus banks any day. Matt carroll would easily become the best shooter on the team, and he probably wouldn’t get many minutes-and there’s plenty of teams that need a sharpshooter of his caliber. He’s easily top 5 in the NBA for threes. Two years in a row he was 2nd in the league in 3pointers per minutes…except till last year. I don’t know if you have seen him play or anything, but he is money.,…that decreases by a mill every year I may add. There’s no way you lose here…not money, not player ability, not trade-abilty, nothing. I didn’t even know BC could get this kind if player cuz Banks was becoming useless.
Banks is much more tradeable than Matt Caroll is because of the contract differences. If he wasnt what would be Dallas’ motivation to make this deal? They want a shorter contract, and so does the rest of the league.
Matt Caroll is a poor man’s Jason Kapono. That should be enough to scare away any interest in trading for him alone.
So people are freaking out that we got rid of a potentially toxic locker room attitude for somebody who’s a deadly shooter, can create better than Kapono and defend better as well. A lot less likely to create turnovers as well. Yes we took on two more years at a little bit of a cost, the last year being 3.5 mill. He’s almost worth that.
And again, who’s to say we even see that last year. Who’s to say he isn’t packaged with some other situation. Man some of you kids should take one step away from the glue bag and try to see the bigger picture.
Carroll is a better player than Banks. He’s, by all accounts, a leader in the locker room and all around good guy. He’s a career 40% shooter from the 3. They’ve almost completely solidified who this team is going to be over the next four years anyway (barring Bosh).
Everybody take a deep breath…just not of the glue bag.
Ya see, we are not sure if he will be a toxic locker room presence if Banks already notices that he is a contract asset and will be ridiculed by it, thanks to GM Mike D’Antoni’s “talent” evaluation (and why do people still accuse B.Co for making Banks’ contract? READ THE FACTS PPL!). The only evidence now is that Banks refused to join Summer Camp with DeMar DeRozen and the gang.
From what “Doughy Smith has stated, Banks is a nice guy who knows he isn’t going to play because he knows he isn’t capable of making a constribution on the court.
Banks seems about as toxic as former Raptor, Yogi Stewart! :D
thanks for your input, at least he won’t be Zach Randolph and strippers, or Jamal Tinsley and drive-bys
Haha, Doughy Smith = +1
I have to say that keeping Banks should be the option now. Charlotte ‘Cats believe that Carrol’s contract is an albatross due to the fact that this player is a one-trick pony. Banks is a trade chip for this year’s trade deadline and BCo can give Banks to a team that will yearn for Carmello (or Bosh if he is smart enough to realize he is not a difference maker and doesn’t opt out of $16-17 Million!) in 2011 Summer. Due to the history of the last two years, we Raps fans don’t want to see another one-trick-pony-white-shooter.
Carroll plays for Dallas, not Charlotte, so Charlotte’s belief that his contract is an albatross is irrelevant.
Banks’ contract is also an albatross due to the fact that he is a zero trick pony, and one trick ponies > zero trick ponies every time.
Banks is a trade chip for next year’s trade deadline, not this year’s. No one wants to trade for a bad contract that doesn’t expire this summer, as this summer is the one everyone wants flexibility for.
Regardless of whether or not you consider Bosh a difference maker, he will be offered a max contract this season (likely by Colangelo, amongst others) so I’m not sure how it would be “smart” not to opt out.
Let me emphasize this, because the Kapono comparisons keep getting thrown around…Matt Carroll is NOT Jason Kapono. He will be making less money and be filling a less significant role. Just because they’re both white shooters does not mean that they are interchangeable as assets. They come at different price tags, and Carroll will be used more sparingly, because we have increased our talent level at that position since Kapono’s departure.
*slow and steady clap*
People are not saying that he is like Jason Kapono based on his role on the team. They are basing that comparison on the fact that he is a player who is only good at shooting and is good at nothing else. Let me give you the reason why:
Name:….TS%……eFg%….TRB%….Ast%…..Stl%…Blk%…Ortg..Drtg.Diff
Kapono…525……513…..5.2…..9.1……0.6….0.1….101…114…-13
Carroll..451……418…..6.8…..7.2……1.8….0.8….86….108…-22
note: average TS% is around .550 and average eFg% is around .500
Carroll is a worse shooter, dishes out less assists and has a terrible offensive rating. He differential between offensive and defensive rating is a horrible 22. The only things Carroll is better at is that he steal and blocks and rebounds at a slightly better rate.
When people say hes like Jason Kapono, they are doing Kapono a disservice. He is a far worse offensive player and his defensive and rebounding dont even come close to the loss offensive production.
and basing your argument that he is cheaper and has a less significant role holds no water. A player like Ime Udoka which you can get for the minimum would provide more to the team than Carroll and would cost less.
It would be cheaper and more effective to buy out banks and sign udoka than it would be to trade for carroll’s contract.
If they make this trade, it would be a terrible outcome for the raptors
*standing ovation*
Nonsense. Who in the hell flushes 9 million dollars plus down the drain without getting anything back. Sorry, no standing ovation here.
its all in the opportunity cost. Would you rather have the open roster spot and add a potentially better player and sink 9 million or would you rather have matt carroll and sink 12 million (and that 12 million is a sunk cost). I would rather cut this tie with negative contracts that just perpetuate it. Its the same reason why the Blue Jays waived BJ Ryan this season. His contributions were not helping the team, and the team could not trade the contract for anything better. You have three scenarios assuming this is the only trade available:
A) Do nothing, and let the contract expire
opportunity cost: 9 million, no open roster spots
B) Waive him and sign a minimum contract player for a year and possibly add a quality cheap player next season
opportunity cost: 9 million, open roster spot or adding a minimum player
C) This trade for Matt Carroll
opportunity cost: 12 million, inferior player than some options in free agency, commitment to the cap for next four years, never going to make the value of the contract
I would choose option B, but I would honestly like to hear other opinions on this issue
I woild choose C.
I’m happy to hear someone for once bring up “opportunity cost”. Props!
I won’t be upset if the deal goes through, but personally, I’d rather just wait until next year on Banks, and I don’t mean the offseason.
People (incl Doug Smith) seem to be confusing the timeline a lot, thinking that teams want to get rid of salary for the 2010 free agent sweepstakes and wouldn’t want to take on Banks’ salary. Yes, this is true and needs not being said. But how about after the offseason? Do teams stop wanting to clear salary from subsequent seasons? LBJ/Wade/Bosh will be settled by then, so it’s clueless to say teams will not want to take additional salary.
Will teams not still want to reduce salary to avoid/minimize luxury tax ramifications? It’s been said all along that Banks will likely be only traded for a bigger contract, but that does not necessarily mean just in years. The Raps can take back up to 125% + 100k of Banks’ 2010-2011 salary. Not saying this trade scenario would definitely happen, but you’re more likely to receive a better player from a larger salary than from a smaller one, if only because teams would be less likely to get rid of more reasonable contracts.
And the argument I understand the least is the one saying “teams will be all spent out from the offseason”. Only a maximum of 3 teams will end up with LBJ/Wade/Bosh, so how does this affect the other 27 who may even pick up a bad contract or two in the wake of losing out on the sweepstakes.
That said, if, as you say, this is the only trade available from now until the 2010-2011 trade deadline, then I would be conflicted between A and B. If Udoka becomes more than a 13th through 15th player on the Raps, then I’d be more willing to go with B, but as it stands, it seems like an unreasonable amount of fuss over who sits on the inactive list.
However, since the assumption that this is the only trade available cannot be proven until the 2010-2011 trade deadline, I’d much rather go with Option D (unlisted) which is to wait and try to trade him next season.
“Terrible outcome” is a tremendous overstatement. They’re not relying on either of these people to do anything, and there’s no way you can consider ~$3.5M in 3/4 years from now to be at all prohibitive.
pietrus signed for the magic for 3 million, in my opinion one should always the consequences of the cap in mind.
Why would you sacrifice 3 million of the cap two or three years down the road for a player which you expect is “not going to do anything”. If anything, just let the contract expire. If you are worried about depth, then waive banks and sign a minimum contract, then the obligation stops at 2010/2011.
pietrus signed for the mid-level:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/orlando.htm
my bad, that was based on an assumption. Shouldve checked the facts.
man theres so many people that have blog sex with ime udoka on this site….why do we glorify these nobodies
You don’t need to know alot about basketball to know Matt Carrolls game is far better than Banks’. Getting Carroll back in the trade if all we give up is Banks is a steal. Banks cannot do as much for the raps as Carroll period
The debate in not about who is better. We all know Caroll is better…
The point is his contract in the long run is not worth the short term benefits.
The point is we are getting a well organized contract that has been eaten up by charlotte or Dallas, we gain a mill to spend every by having him, and he’s a deadly shooter …..who probably won’t play unless someone gets injured or if a little quick offense is needed. Where could we get better? We win in this trade on all counts. Stop complaining- this is good
Yes you are a “smartguy”. Good job.
If this trade happens, well, fine we have to friggin live with it. Emergencies happen and Marco Belinelli might get injured. If we hear that Carrol is the last one out of the gym in practice I might get some respect earned for him because it was told from “fun” interviews that Kapono was the first one out of the gym.
This blogger guy is seriously stupid to even suggest that this would be a bad trade…..stupid. Matt carroll vs. Banks? Carroll !!!!!! If u factor in that with the deal we get a mill extra for two seasons then hid expiring contract that’s
$1M $1M $3.35M= $5.35M we get over the course of his tim as a raptor. That’s more than we would get from banks people! Plus carroll can produce in short spurts with his shot. So in no way is banks and his contract better than Carroll
I think we can get a better player than Matt Caroll for $4.5M in 2010-11.
First of all, for the first 2 season, it is 700,000 and not a One million and if you are rounding ;) mathimatically, you should round down in this case.
2ndly, how did you come up with the 5.3 million ? Banks contract is over after 2 years and Carrol has almost 6.5 left. you take that one million off that 6.5 and you are left with additional 5.5 million for a guy who is his last season, played, 6.7 minutes, shot 0.125% in 3 and scored I belive 2 points !!!
How is this a good trade !!!
We aren’t gunna have enough money fir more than bosh or amare in free agency anyways, and we r the only team that can offer bosh the max with 6 yrs. We don’t have to worry about the contract not being of the books in 2010. Again we won’t have cash fir more than one player anyways.
Matt Carroll is with Dallas just to clarify. But after a night to sleep on it, I’m warming up to this trade mainly for one reason.
Carroll is a much more movable asset than Banks. He’s a shooter, one that’s earned that reputation around the league. The fact that he’s a specialist makes him real easy to market around trading deadlines when other playoff teams are looking for that marksman to reinforce their roster or a guy that can fill up the basket to make up for an injured player’s offense.
Banks won’t be able to move as easily. The Mavs want him now for future salary cap relief. If they don’t get business done now with the Raps, they’ll look elsewhere for that. The thing is though, most teams are positioning for the summer of ‘10. So Banks’ contract expiring in ‘11 may not be so attractive to many teams, especially teams that may have something half-decent to offer the Raps.
It’s hard to say because I don’t have a crystal ball to tell the future but I’m not really against this move. Actually, I may endorse it slightly.
Either way, I’m comfortable with the roster. As I said in a different post… its better we’re arguing about trades for our out-of-rotation players than praising the fact Will Solomon is our primary backup PG!
I’d prefer to let Banks come off our cap than take on longer term “bad contract”.
NOTE: Both Banks and Caroll aren’t considered NBA players, they are considered and referred to as “bad contracts”.
What reputation ??!! I don’t think anyone here has ever heard of this guy. Kapano had a reputation and that is why we were able to move him. Quantine Ross has a reputation and … this is his stat from last season:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2211
YR TM G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
08-09 DAL 21 0 6.7 0.4-1.6 .273 0.0-0.4 .125 0.3-0.3 1.000 0.1 0.0 0.3 0.7 0.1 0.6 0.7 0.1 1.2
What kind of specialist is he that only played 6.7 minutes ??
The guy is making very too much for what he is sort of able to do and I just do not see why we need to tie ourself for 2 more years with his contract.
You need to watch more NBA basketball.
I do agree his contract is too high for his skill set but he’s a type of player that can be used as a trading tool because of his specific skills. Banks skill set combined with his contract is not as attractive, save for a team looking to dump salary after ‘10-’11.
Carroll, I don’t know what his situation was last year. I think he had better talent ahead of him in his spot but he’s proven in previous years he can be a deadly shooter and I know any scout or GM that does their job knows who he is.
When I heard this rumour, my first reaction wasn’t in favour of the move. I’m not in love with the longer contract but taking into account that BC has an uncanny ability to move pieces and that Carroll can be an attractive weapon for a team missing a gunner, makes me more accepting of this move. And in the meantime, an extra sniper can’t hurt.
My friend, you keep on saying specific skill !!! and I am asking you what skill is that ?? Look at his 3% shooting for last season. The guy is worst than Kapano in defence and passing !!! Can any team afford having him on the floor to use his so called “Specific Skill” ??
His skill is shooting. Last year he shot a grand total of 53 from downtown, so his low percentage is misleading. His career mark of 40% is much more indicative of future performance.
He’s not on the court for defense & passing, he’s going to be on the court when the team needs points quickly. There are other players that provide defense.
I’m also not sure who “Quantine Ross” is, but apparently he’s a bigger name than Matt Carroll.
Nice assist Macy! To add to that, the stat line you published higher in this thread is incomplete and only shows what he did when he went to Dallas and was buried behind the likes that included Jason Terry off the bench and even Antoine Wright.
Go back to where you got that stat line and check his 3pt stats for the 3 seasons previous to last… He’s a shooter period! He had an off season last year due to various reasons.
I hope you guys are correct and I am wrong and he turn out to be a deadly shooter behind the arc. But I can not see this guy even scoring 15 3 pt a season over the next 2 season.
I was earlier looking at one of Dallas’s fan pages that had a story on this thread and did not even see one good comment for this guy. To me, that is quite alarming. Has anyone else found some good feed backs from Dallas fans !!!
dude, you need to watch this video a couple more times.
Oh, keep in mind that this video is not from last year (when he barely played) its from the year when he earned the very same contract we are complaining about.
Oh, and also keep in mind that he could still do this if he got the minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpiRwc7zSOA
If BC can get Belinelli for Devean George, he can get more than Matt Carole for for Banks.
I agree, this is a terrible contract to take on. Why add two more years?
If anything there are four good options (in my opinion)
1. hold on to banks and just let him expire,
2.waive him and sign another player
3.trade him for another player with two years left but a slightly higher figure on his contract, but may prove to be servicable.
4. trade him as part of a package of expiring contracts next offseason/trading deadline for a servicable backup (nocioni comes to mind).
People shouldnt say option 4 isnt possible because thats excatly what SA did to obtain Richard Jefferson. In the times of a falling cap and economic recession, teams may want to get rid of servicable players with large contracts
But would it be wise for us to take on large contracts for only serviceable players? (i.e. Nocioni)
I think BC’s going to be swinging for a second round pick (or two) to go alongside Matt Carroll. I still wouldn’t be happy with that. Keep Banks and use him as a trade chip next season. If he’s a cancer tell him to stay at home a la Jamaal Tinsley.
Why in the world would you ever want a guy to stay home? If that’s even a 1% possibility then you do this trade. Matt Carroll can provide something.
I got the impression from Colangelo’s interview on the Fan590 that when Banks refused to go to the D-League, that was it.
It’s not the deal to end all deals, however, I don’t understand everybody’s negative reaction. It benefits the Raptors over the next two years, and sure the contract runs an extra two years, but it is not debilitating ($3.9 and S3.5 million). It’s not an unmovable contract and the cap should start creeping back up by then.
Personally I wouldn’t do it, but to be honest, I fine either way.
Agreed. This whole issue has become way overblown. A clear sign the season needs to start soon!
Well at least it goes to show you passionate some raptors fans are :) … and how many new ones are coming about. If anything BC is creating a buzz in the city that is exciting for fans, but not screwing up the team a la Maple Leafs style.
It’s a tough call. If the contracts were both same length, then Matt is an upgrade. The only question is the length of the contract, which potentially makes this a bad deal.
On the other hand, who wants to take on banks? Is he just trade bait as his contract expires?
Is it better to improve your team and have a working piece than Mr. “I’m only here to collect a pay check” sitting on your bench?
I’m torn either way . Regardless, you know BC, and fans support him, wants to move banks out of here badly.
Well Banks for Carrol doesnt seem like a good trade to me. They are both over paid scrubs. And if either one is on the team they will receive their share of DNP’s and play during garbage time. If Colangelo can somehow work out a deal that nets us a secound round pick (or any pick for that matter) then i do the trade.
I dont see how adding extra years of wasted cap space helps us. If we get a pick it evens out the deal and lands us another asset.
What happens to the Raptors if (and when) Turkgolu gets injured. Wright can play SF, but who is the back-up? Expecting a player to miss at least 10 games from injury is reasonable. What happens if Wright is injured–who backs up Turkgolu? Expecting Wright to miss at least 10 games is reasonable. As such, it seems likely that Carroll will see minutes in 20 games. Banks will see minutes in no games. Carroll has upside, Banks has none. At the end of the day, we are talking so much about this because nothing is going on and it is August. Is this trade, whether made or not, going to change our win total? If there is a significant injury to turkgolu or wright, carroll will come in handy. He also has an upside. Cap room matters more in this year and next because the cap is coming down. Honestly, arguing about the 13th player on a time is kind of pointless.
I am more excited about getting Amir Johnson, as I thought we had a weakness if we needed a scoring pf (instead of evans). Admitedly he didn’t take many shots, but he shot almost 60%, and is a sensational shot blocker and offensive rebounder. He also has upside.
Amir has played some considerable time at SF for Detroit… kinda like a poor-man’s Josh Smith.
To be fair he played SF when he got into the NBA. He has grown since then, reports say hes closer to 6′11 or 7′0 than to what he is listed now (6′9)
DeRozan is a wing as well. And then you have Jack and Beli to play the two. Douby (and maybe Jack) to back up Jose.
You can also slide Andrea as a “3″ in certain sets – with Evans/Rasho and Bosh.
The only logic I see from BC on this one is “taking care of his players” by trading them to better situations. But in this case considering that Banks’ contract is getting more valuable by the day, I would MUCH rather them keep him on the bench (theirs not enough minutes for everyone to play anyway) and if he gets to be a locker room poison, tell him to stay away from the team (a la Tinsley/Marbury etc) and either let him expire or trade him this time next year or the at the 2010 trade deadline for a borderline starter (of Delfino’s or AP’s quality).
Who cares if Carrol has 2 more years than Banks. At one point Banks had 4 years left on his horrible contract and he still managed to be traded 3 times (if this one goes through). If Banks can be traded then Carrol can be traded, is need be. Carrol is a better player than Banks, not by a whole lot, but at least he’s playable.
Banks was traded as cap filler and to get rid of a bad contract. I think the fact that the best offer on the table is Matt Carrol (slight upgrade, worse contract) proves the point of Banks’ untradeabiliy lol
Why does it matter what yr the contract is up. We can still offer bosh the max regardless. We don’t have the money with or without banks expiring contract to sign another good player that can fill the backup sf or c spot. So it doesn’t matter that carrolls contract expires latter. u guys r seriously under-ratingg Carroll, the only treason he only got 6.7 minutes is becauuse he had to play behind terry wright and stackhouse. In charlotte he averaged 12 points. Banks has no role while Carroll would be our short spurt offence. again the contract thing won’t matter. It realy won’t matter. The extra 4.8M won’t get us a good player so forget about that for next year. We can either move Carroll Orr wait till his contract is up. I realy never knew you guys were smarter than BC who is the guy that reshaped this team twice now and is the guy making this deal……he knows better that u guys so I think we should support the move cuz it’s a good one
I think most would agree that if Carroll was a free agent this offseason he would be out of the league or at best playing for the minimum. The fact that you pointed out that he was buried in dallas’ bench behind a semi-retired Jerry Stackhouse(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=802) should be proof enough of the lack of an impression made on their coaching staff.
BC is awesome, but blind faith is not a virtue.
Last season’s 3FG % 13 of 53 made = 24.5%
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2211
First of all, looking at this trade from an on the court perspective is silly since Banks wouldn’t have played and Carrol will play very little. Off the court, I think that this deal has a lot more to do with the locker room and team chemistry than any financial considerations. Do we really want Banks and DeRozan to meet up and discuss how to get paid to do nothing? Doug Smith mentions in his article that Banks hasn’t been a problem in the locker room, but could become a pouter without playing time. Since he isn’t going to play here and he has proven that he isn’t willing to do whatever it takes to improve himself or help the team(skipping summer league) why not move him before he has a chance to negatively impact the team building that needs to occur to integrate so many new faces.
First round pick for banks? you can’t get donuts for him if you tried. . . Hey can we trade him for a water bottle seriously!
Bryan Colangelo is smarter than all of us as far as basketball goes, and the deal is happening so all of you opinions don’t matter. We rnt GMs, but BC is and I feel like he knows what he’s doing. Anyone think different?
Perhaps the other GMs in the Eastern Conference who have enjoyed beating the shit out of the Raptors and watching BC trade us out of contention the past two seasons. Maybe this year will be different. Why don’t you ask Otis Smith?
this shows that the coach and GM are on the same page. this is good because the team is on its way to its destination. BC is a good GM, who wants his team to have a run and gun ala phoenix system, and he’s got Jay T who i believe was underappreciated last year, but really is a decent tactician and could be a very good coach in this league.
a banks for carroll straight up trade, well i wouldnt be that satisfied. same salaries, same level of play. if we were able to smuggle hedo, get bellineli for a geriatric devian george, i would prefer to give up banks and some cash, for carroll and a draft pick (2nd round would be fine).
carroll would be our go to 3pointer guy, a steve kerr type. belinelli could also play some point. and we have douby, and the guy that we got in the roko, delfino-amir johnson trade.
can’t wait for this season!!!!!
Hey what do you all think of something like this, since the Banks for Carroll trade isnt official:
Banks and Weems to DALLAS for
Carrol and a sign and trade of F James Singleton (http://www.tsn.ca/nba/teams/players/bio/?id=1342)
Hes a hustling small forward that defends, rebounds, and isnt a bad shooter. A nice bench player, and would fit the need of a more suitable backup SF. Mavs have his bird rights and it doesnt look like they want him, he would be a definite upgrade over Weems and it will likely be an affordable contract. He has been rumoured in the past a candidate for an offer sheet (he is technically an RFA)
Seems like something BC would pull off. What do you all think?
What about Banks + Weems for Caroll. And then we get a vet minumum guys. PLEASE BRING BACK JOEY. Then I would be happy but not static.
Anyone else find this whole thread to be ludicrous?
Ya, its like renovating the house and now arguing over what colour the light fixtures should be.
I have took a day to digest this rumour after reading every comment and article i could. I understand Carrolls deficiencies but i also understand that Banks isnt worth a bag of balls. At 3.9 and 3.5 in the 3rd and 4th years of the deal it is alot for what he does but does it really hurt the raps to have a shooter as 15th man. Yes, he is a jason kapono clone but it would hard to argue that kapono himself wouldnt be a good 15th man. our problem is that we wanted him to be our 7th. jack, wright, bellini, derozan and turkoglu are all ahead of him on the depth chart meaning his contributons will be neglible. the question is then why trade him for banks who has that same role….Versatility! in a one second ont he clock situation it doesnt ever hurt to have a pure shooter somewhere on your bench. the raps just have to not play him when his defensive abilities will be challenged…therefore garbage time and situationals. banks is hated and will be a cancer…we might as well have 15 usuable parts….3.9 and 3.5 is nothing compared to what banks is making. talent and role considered
Carroll = Scalabrine
Banks = Darrick Martin
Even if moved at the end of year 2, Carroll would be a better fit for that span. If that is actually the result, it’s worth getting slightly less in return for the 3rd and 4th year via trade. By then, the core will already be set with many mid-length deals.
After two years, trade Carroll and 2 2nd rounders for a Delfino-type.
The easiest way for Colangelo to jettison Banks is to get Dany Heatley loaded and then throw Banks in the trunk of Heatley’s car. I know it sounds awful, but so does Matt Carroll.
I can’t believe you guys want to keep Pops over Amir and Banks over Carroll.
Also, what the hell are you expecting for Banks? You had to know all along that if we got anything, it was gonna be a shitty contract for longer years. We are getting a shitty (but not that shitty) contract for a guy who can at least shoot the corner 3.
And whoever said that “who needs 3pt shooters, look at philly” needs to get their head checked. Yay, lets make it to the first round year after year! Lakers, Magic, Cavs, Celtics, SA can all shoot the corner 3, and make it part of their offense.
I wish Khandor was here to set everyone straight again. You build a team to win the championship. Not hold on to guys like Banks and Roko because they have awesome expiring contracts or are just a couple years from developing
I can’t believe you think shippping bosh out is gona help. Whoever’s writing.. Your an idiot!
“Thats a photo of me from TWO YEARS AGO MAN!!!”
Really? The Suns organization won’t be thrilled to hear you were wearing a Celtics sweatshirt in the summer of ‘07…
LMFAO!!!!! owned.
To sum up:
- Carroll’s contract decreases over the next 4 years.
- Banks’ contract increases over the next 2 years.
Net result = short term savings vs higher cost long term (if Carroll can’t be traded).
- Banks has done nothing in years and his refusal to report to the D-League has made him persona non grata with the organization.
- Carroll has a reputation as a good locker room guy and a hard worker.
Net result = player who doesn’t seem to care vs player who does.
- Banks contributes nothing to the Raptors (Douby is the 3rd PG).
- Carroll fills a need at SF (deep on the bench).
Net result = useless player vs semi-useful player (who hopefully sees very little court time).
As for the expiring contract, the value of this “asset” is impossible to quantify given the current NBA marketplace. Very few GMs want to take on any salary right now given the unstable financial climate the league is operating in.
Finally, this really does look like part of the Marion trade – if this is in fact the case, then we moved added a player into the deal who has proven himself useless for a player who may at least have some use.
I do not get why people keep saying Carroll plays Sf. Guys between Marco, Wright, DD, and Caroll, Caroll would actually be last person playing Sf…
Actually, Belinelli would probably be the last person playing SF on a team not coached by Nelson.
Carroll has spent most of his time playing the 2, but he’s also put in a fair amount of time at the 3. Ironically, his PER differential (his PER at SG/SF minus the opposing SG/SF’s PER) is best at the 3.