Has anyone tried using the trade machine to off-load Roko Ukic or Marcus Banks? If you do try it out let me warn you of two challenges you will definitely encounter. 1) Making the salaries match 2) Justifying why any team would want any part of these two. Roko’s a likable guy and my heart really breaks when I select him as Player 1 in the trade machine but then I tell myself: Self, Roko will starve for basketball if he’s with the Raptors. It’s best for everybody that we end this relationship, see, it’s not him, it’s us. That makes me feel a bit better. But as for Banks, we should kick him out and slam the door shut. In fact, when we slam the door shut we should make sure his never-healing left toe is caught in it.
It’s come to the point where Quincy Douby is ahead of them on the depth chart. That’s right, Quincy “Tupac” Douby. When summer league started we were hoping that Roko would show us a little something, maybe a little light at the end of the tunnel which would make us want to hang on to him longer, at least until training camp in hopes of seeing that light up-close. But all he did was light a match and then immediately piss on it – no light, all darkness. Other than a couple hail-mary threes he didn’t do a damn thing in summer league and allowed Douby to showcase himself without Roko even looking like the facilitator. Smush Parker looked better than him. Yeah, it was that bad. In fact, if Parker was on our depth chart he’d be ahead of Roko by a hair.
Here’s a quick RR scouting report on Roko Ukic:
- Ability to get by his opponent on occasion.
- Struggles to finish in the face of challenges.
- Lacks court-awareness to find open shooter on kick-outs.
- Average defender at the point-guard.
- At 6’5″ he’s big enough for a SG but without a refined offensive game it doesn’t matter.
- Not a tight dribble, tends to turn his back on defender to protect ball instead of facing him and using a short, controlled dribble.
- No outside shot.
- Streaky ability to finish in the lane on floaters.
- Unrefined post-up game, doesn’t look to exploit his size advantage.
- Can push the ball in transition but lacks awareness to make correct decisions.
- With only one year NBA experience, could work on his weaknesses and prove doubters wrong.
The only thing that fills you with hope on that scouting report is the last point, but are we a team than can afford to wait on him while giving him consistent playing time to hone those skills? With Calderon, Jack, Belinelli and Douby already there, no. Therefore, we have to either trade him or buy him out (if we want to free up a roster spot) just in case we’d like to add a serviceable body later on. Again Roko, it’s not you, it’s us.
With Joey Graham on the way out and Ukic displaying a penchant for the D-League, soon the last remaining artifact linked to Rob Babcock will be Jose Calderon.
On to Marcus Banks and the talk that the Raptors are looking to buy him out. Marcus strikes me as a guy who’s more than willing to be a healthy scratch on the 15-man roster for the entire duration of his contract. The only way he’s taking a penny less than the $9,216,000 that’s owed to him is if he believes there’s a team out there that’s willing to put up with him and let him showcase his skills for his next NBA contract. I looked through all 30 teams and I can’t find a PG who is worse than Banks so good luck with that.
Europe could be a possibility for him and his buyout amount might follow the equation:
This makes more sense, if he’s making up what he lost in the buyout abroad and still getting some playing time to showcase his limited skill, he could be convinced to accept. If he can con a European team to paying him $2M/yr, that would reduce the buyout amount (which counts against the cap!!) to $5,216,000 and heading into next year’s reduced salary cap, that could make a big difference.
Any team that’s willing to pay him will first need to see what he can do and for that they’ll need to consult tapes that are 3 years old. He played 6 garbage games for us last year, 16 for Miami where he averaged only 10.4 minutes which was half of what he averaged the year before that – see, Pat Riley figured out early that he’s no good. The only time he’s been a meaningful part of any team is in 2005-06 when he averaged 30.7 minutes in 40 games after being traded from Boston. That year the Wolves finished second last in the West. So yeah, not much of a resume.
The Raptors felt that Banks should’ve played in the summer league and he obviously felt otherwise. Usually asking a 6-year veteran to play summer league is an insult but Banks is an exception, not that it would’ve helped him much. Unless Colangelo puts another bunny out of his hat we’re not going to get anything for these two, the only hope here is that we can salvage a roster spot in case we need to add a specialty body later on.
Or convert those freed up spots to sign a big strong forward like 6’8″ Brent Petway or 6’9″ Ekene Ibekwe who both had good summer league showings. There might also be players on other teams that had a good league which could help, and maybe even some talented players whose stock isn’t that high because of poor showings.
The way I see it, we got a 15-man roster and one, if not two, spots are being wasted amongst Roko and Banks. And we haven’t even discussed Patrick O’Bryant yet. Colangelo earlier said that every spot on the roster should have a meaning and contribute in some way, right now he’s got a bit of a problem there.
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68 Raps
I say – put Gherardini on the Europe job – he’ll have a 5M per year contract set up for Banks in no time!
i was thinking banks + patty o’bryant + second round pick for morris peterson
I actually tried expanding that to include Douby and Julian Wright. This saves the Hornets $1.7 million in salaries this year or $3.4 since I think they’re over the tax, and saves whatever the difference between Banks and MoPete the following year. I think this makes sense since Wright appears to be Scott’s doghouse and gives decent potential in Douby.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m4pruh
Keep dreaming. Just because he’s in the doghouse right now doesn’t mean the team will give him away for nothing, and yes, that’s what they’d be doing. Julian may not have proved much since arriving in the NBA, but his fair market value is still whatever other teams are willing to trade for him, and not what you think we may be able to sneak him away for.
Have you looked at New Orlean’s depth chart? Why would they want Douby? He won’t get any time ahead of either Collison or Thornton (at the 1 and 2, respectively).
And on the other hand, why do we want Morris Peterson? Come on people, it’s just the last 8-10 minutes at the three, and either way, we’ll need to have 2-3 people on the inactive list. If we need someone so bad, we can easily sign one of the remaining free agents to a minimum deal. Talent-wise, they won’t be much different than Mo’ Pete. Stop trying to make a move for the sake of making a move.
Commenting on Vince Carter jersey retirement:
I wouldn’t retire a player’s jersey number for any franchise/team unless said player had played a significant role in the team’s success AND had played more seasons in his career with that particular team than another other particular team.
Vince Carter played 7 years in Toronto, 5 in New Jersey, and will likely play another 4-5 seasons in the league with various teams. So as it stands, Carter fits within that “majority of seasons played with Toronto” category. However, has he played a significant role in the team’s success? I would say yes and no. Yes, in that he played a big part of us making it past the first round. No, in that can you really consider getting past the first round a resounding success?
I would say at this point, the Toronto Raptors have not reached the point where they can retire any player’s jersey. My thinking is, why celebrate when the franchise has accomplished nothing?
Agreed. At this point in time there aren’t any Raptors that deserve to have their number retired. If Vince comes back and wins a championship with us, then it’s worth considering. For now, winning a dunk contest doesn’t get your jersey retired in my books.
I really don’t understand how ANY Raptor fan could vote ‘yes’ on that poll to hang Vince’s number up in the rafters of the ACC. Maybe (MAYBE) if he would’ve been traded away fair and square, but … he didn’t only screw us by demanding a trade the way he did – and ok, he didn’t make the bad deal … but still – he later admitted that he hadn’t been giving his best out there for us in that interview he did … and weren’t there also some very strong words being muttered about him giving our plays to the other team at one time as well? And he’s got A HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN votes so far saying ‘yes’ to retiring his number up there? WTF?
(not that I’m bitter or anything … )
may not be bitter, but you are a prime example of a Toronto sports fan, using selective memory.
John Thompson said the sound bite was taken out of context and, if you watch the interview, you’ll see that it was..much like his “I’ll never dunk again” comment.
And, according to http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/12/19/cartertip041219.html I’d say there really isn’t much evidence to prove the tipping happened. I find it odd that the man guarding him wouldn’t have heard or known.
I’m a prime example of a Toronto sports fan? As in typical? Hm. Sounding a bit superior there, pal. Frankly, I don’t care about the ‘context’ of what he said … because I heard what he said. And I saw how he left. The fact is, VC was treated like a god here and he left like a first class A-hole. Even after he left, he could’ve done what many in a similar position might’ve done and found a way to make it better for the many thousands of fans – even there in Ottawa – who cheered and adored him like he would never know again … but he didn’t. So in the end … I guess I’ll select my memories and you can select … yours.
So there is no reason for Washington to do this but Banks and Ukic for Mike James. He has a nice expiring contract…. but I can’t see it happening at all. They already have Foye and Areanas.
OR
Banks, Ukic, and POB for Nick Collison and Shaun Livingston.
But again I can’t see the Thunder doing this unless they see some potential in our guys.
You’re right on both counts.
Washington has no reason to give up a “nice expiring contract” for our bunch of crap, regardless of Foye and Arenas. Even if they needed a point guard, their GM would be fired for making such a horrible trade.
Oklahoma City’s GM would be lynched in public for trading away Collison for a package that is worse than a bag of balls. Nick Collison is a nice, young power forward who’d be in the rotation on most if not all teams. None of Banks, Ukic or POB would be in any team’s rotation. There’s no point even thinking about this.
I think there are four wasted roster spots — Roko, Banks, Douby and O’Bryant.
That’s a lot of dead weight for this bench to deal with. Any injury to any rotation player, will be more hurtful than it should be as a consequence.
I disagree when it comes to Douby. There was an interview with Triano recently which he praised Douby’s off season work ethics and said he made improvement in all area that was asked from him.
Agreed on O’Bryant but this post wasn’t about him. I used to think the same with Douby but after hearing some of the reviews he’s getting and the effort he’s put in this summer, he might be worth a spot.
I’m not saying he’s going to come in and play 22 minutes a night if Jack goes down, but I think he could be a spark off the bench. Maybe in those third quarter lulls and situational plays like when you need an extra ball-handler. I like the fact that he played hard in summer league and put a lot of time into his game since the season ended. Shows something.
Again, nothing spectacular by any means but not a bad ball-handler/shooter to have as your 13th guy. Remember that you’re not going to find many good/proven NBA guards willing to sit on the bench and only play in case of injury etc. Douby’s cheap and hopefully we won’t have to extend him. If a PG does go down then you give him a shot and if he fails, fill that empty roster spot with a move. Acting preemptively to replace Douby is effort better invested elsewhere.
J. Jeffries (Knicks) for Banks and Ukic?
Counter: Jeffries and Curry for Bosh?
I just watched a video of JO getting ready for this season. Listening to what he says and the fact that right now, there are 10 guys from heat team who are working out together and are in gym, made me think about Banks, POB, and Roko.
1) Does anyone know where Banks is and what he is up to? Are our coaching staff talking to him to see what his mind set is and … We are paying this guy 5 mill a year so I think we should try to excite him about the season or ….
Can anyone from here, Do an interview with him and ask him about the upcoming season and his goals and…
2) POB!!! Same questions about coaching staff!!! Is anyone working out with this kid? Do we have any trainers from Raptor organizations who are working on building this guy’s body up and …
I don’t know, to me, it seems like we are quite weak on developing our talents in the off season
you hit the nail on the head…if we had the Spurs of Lakers coaching staff different things would be happening.
hopefully thinks will evolve in toronto
“if we had the Spurs of Lakers coaching staff different things would be happening.”
yeah we would have crappy players riding the pine BUT collecting rings. Every team has 3 or so players that flat out suck. The lakers and spurs are no different. They have players moving through their roster, who never seeing floor time and fans never even hear of.
Umm, wait a second…
“It’s not you, it’s us?,” but then almost immediately you tear him apart in your scouting report, basically making the point that he has no game.
Seems kinda contradictory.
You know how when people break up they say “It’s not you, it’s me” even though it’s totally not them but the other person. That’s what I was going for but for the second straight post my humour has been lost. I have failed and will try to do better.
Lol, I just had that conversation about 3 weeks ago… I completely got the humour out of it Arsenalist and the previous one you felt you failed on… keep em coming
Yea I got the humour also… Very nice article.
I think we need better frontcourt depth, especially at center because I feel POB just doesn’t cut it behind Bargs and Rasho. I think we should trade Ukic to the Grizz for Hamed Haddadi, who won’t see minutes in Memphis behind Gasol and Thabeet. He had more production in his rookie season than POB did last year (in half the minutes), played very well in the Olympics, and actually looked better than Thabeet in Summer League this year (again only playing about half as many minutes).
He can block shots, rebound, and has a decent post game and good passing. Memphis has too many bigs and needs guards, and we have too many guards and need bigs.
If they don’t want Ukic we could offer POB+Douby instead. Both scenarios save Memphis money and an extra year on Haddadi’s contract. At the very least he’s a serviceable 3rd center that could give us better minutes than POB, but I think that given a chance he could even develop into a solid ‘traditional’ center that could play in the post and allow either Bosh or Bargs to operate from the perimeter.
I actually like it. Toronto has a big Iranian community and this guy can bring some more fans.
Sorry, won’t happen for the following reasons:
1) If he’s actually worth a look as you say, then why would Memphis trade him away for crap?
2) Memphis won’t want Ukic. They already have Conley, Jaric and Marcus Williams at that position.
3) If they already have too many bigs, why would they want POB in a POB + Douby for Haddadi deal? Since POB and Haddadi make about the same, wouldn’t it be better if they just sign someone for the minimum to provide depth at the 2? It would cost the same, and yet Haddadi + some free agent is probably better than POB + Douby.
4) Memphis doesn’t actually have too many bigs. They have three players at the 5 (Gasol, Thabeet and Haddadi), and two and a half at the 4 (Randolph, Arthur and Carroll is a 3/4 tweener). That’s not very different from our three at the 5 and two at the 4.
5) Yeah, they could use some depth at the 2, but they only have 12 players on the roster. They need to sign at least one more to meet the minimum requirement of 13. Again, they can easily get someone (who isn’t undersized at the 2) for the vet’s minimum without giving up Haddadi.
Conley, Jaric, and Marcus Willaims…
Thank God we aren’t the Memphis Grizzles.
That PG situation is gawdawful.
Indeed.
1) Well see, Memphis has just picked Thabeet 2nd overall after only having Haddadi for a year. It’s clear Haddadi will barely get any minutes again this year behind Gasol and Thabeet (He got 6 last year). Memphis’ motivation in trading him away is money.
2) This could be true, I’m not sure how much Memphis would want Ukic, they looked light in the backcourt and Ukic is young on a cheap deal, and gives some decent production for the money, so I thought they might consider it.
3)POB makes half as much as Haddadi (he makes 1.6M for 2 years), and POB is expiring this year, while Haddadi has two more years. Douby they could keep if they want as a cheap backup 1/2 (who again is expiring), or if they want to cut him to save an additional $855k (since his contract is non-guaranteed) they can do that too. We’re talking about end of the bench minutes here, without Thabeet last year, Haddadi only got 6 minutes…I think it’s reasonable to assume he wouldn’t be getting more this year, and for such a limited role, POB is more than adequate.
4) Actually, Memphis does have a lot of bigs. In addition to the players you listed, they just brought in YET ANOTHER 7-footer from Denver in Steven Hunter yesterday (in surprise surprise, another money making move by the Grizz, but this one kind of made sense)
5) By bringing in Hunter, they’re at 13, and backcourt depth could still be addressed.
I think either of these deals could work out well for both sides. Letting Haddadi continue to work with Iavaroni (who is now with us in Toronto) would be good in terms of maintaining continuity in his development. And yes, I think MLSE could also benefit from the draw that Haddadi could be for the sizable Iranian community in Toronto.
3) It’s kind of funny. Why is it that for Memphis, POB suddenly becomes adequate yet for us he’s crap?
4) Okay, yes, they just took Hunter off Denver’s hands, but it wasn’t a money making move as you said. Denver’s contract is for $3.7 mil this year. All Memphis did was help Denver save money in exchange for a 1st round pick. The cash Denver is sending to Memphis will only partially cover Hunter’s salary, so if anything, this is completely contrary to your theory that Memphis is so in need of cutting salary that its willing to shed off young talent for the sake of money.
By picking Thabeet in the draft, he is by default going to be given the majority of the backup C minutes (unless they plan to start him, but I don’t think they will) as they are hoping he can turn into a defensive anchor for them. It’s not like Haddadi’s projected minutes are going to increase this year with Memphis bringing in TWO additional 7-footers this offseason (one as the second overall pick in the draft). So if you’re Memphis, why not bring in a guy in POB, who might not be as good as Haddadi but is decent enough for the end of the bench role that he will play, has played in the NBA for 3 seasons, is one year younger than Haddadi, is an expiring this year, and only costs half as much?
Toronto’s backup center needs are much more pressing than the Grizzlies’. Memphis has two ‘traditional’ centers in Gasol and Thabeet. The Raps do not. Bargs is our starting center, but he’s a natural PF. A lot of people think we are fundamentally flawed starting two natural PF’s, and even advocate trading one of them for a more traditional center. But this is the direction BC took with the team. The Bosh-Bargs frontcourt attempts to create mismatches on opposing defenses from the perimeter, at the expense of having a solid inside presence. At times it works and is very effective, at other times not so much. For those times when it doesn’t, our bench depth at C is crucial. Rasho is an excellent center in this regard, but at 34 now, we don’t know how many more years we have with the skilled veteran. For these reasons we need to bring in someone, preferably young, to address these needs, and I think that Haddadi would be a perfect fit, and if he develops into a good defensive center with a solid post game, we could really be able to bring in a completely different dynamic to our frontcourt matchups. If not, fine, we get similar production as POB, and move on. POB, on the other hand, I don’t think is suited to develop into that type of center. I really think that with all of the financial incentives for Memphis, they would do this deal because for the kind of minutes at C that would be available on their team, there just wouldn’t be much difference between POB and Haddadi, it’s just another 7 foot body to play garbage minutes… for the Raps it does make more of a difference, because while it may just seem like a small deal now, it could potentially have big positive implications on our depth in the future.
With regards to the Denver deal, Memphis was given cash considerations along with the 1st round pick and Hunter (who is expiring, so it works out well since Memphis needed to fill another roster spot to reach the minimum anyways). I have a feeling that the cash considerations included in the deal was probably $3M, which covers over 80% of Hunter’s salary, and I think that getting Denver’s late first round pick for the remaining $600k on Hunter’s contract (which will end up being cheap, young talent at only about $1.4M) is more than worth it.
You missed my point completely.
(And as a side note, I never disputed whether Memphis taking on Hunter was good for them. Of course it’s good for them, they’re getting a first round pick to take on some salary.)
You spent most of your post talking about how Toronto needs a decent center more than Memphis does, except that’s neither here nor there. There’s no dispute that a lot of centers out there would be better than POB. However, Toronto’s need for a center doesn’t make Memphis any more likely to take that deal.
Face it. While your Toronto bias isn’t as strong as some other people’s, you’re still viewing this from too much of a “how does this help Toronto” while trying to justify why Memphis might agree to it. You don’t have to write over and over again that Thabeet will be getting the backup minutes (last year it was Darko, and they still had no problem signing Haddadi and sending him to the NBDL). It doesn’t change the fact that if Haddadi is actually promising at all, Memphis will most likely *not* trade him for scrap metal just to save such a tiny amount of money. There are *many* other contracts they could try to divest themselves of, and if they do trade Haddadi, it will be for a better offer.
You know you’re reaching when you spend so much time trying to concoct a trade scenario that tries to remedy a *non-problem* on another team. Carrying three centers is a very normal thing, and if they had our fans, I bet you we’d be crying about how we need a third center to backup Gasol and Thabeet in case of injury.
Fair enough. I thought it could be reasonable enough for Memphis, but you’re probably right it might not be enough incentive to move Haddadi. With our team’s depth looking as good as it does, I just wish we could move those last few non-contributing pieces and make our team even more competitive. I don’t think I’ve ever been as excited about an offseason as this one, and with all the moves the Raps have made this summer, BC sure hasn’t disappointed.
Banks to OKC for Kyle Weaver and Seolosha?
Why would OKC do that ???!!!
Just threw it out there I guess lol.
lol
The best trade I could come up with is sending Roko to Milwaukee (who only have one PG right now) for Walter Sharpe and cash.
Money doesn’t match (both teams are above the cap), and Milwaukee actually has two PGs at the moment: Luke Ridnour and Brandon Jennings.
I got it to work http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n5mnyj
and my mistake on the 2 PGs part.
I still think it’s the best I could come up with value-wise.
For Marcus Banks, I think the Raps have three main options:
(1) Trade him for a player with a longer contract — probably do more long term damage than short term good. Not a fan of this idea.
(2) Combine Banks’ contract with a future first round pick and bring back a good player (6th or 7th man type) at $5 million or so a year — good way to add a high quality role player. If you’re convinced the Raptors make the playoffs, and are a threat for the #4-#6 seeds, then this might be worthwhile. If you’re not convinced they’re a solid playoff team, then the deal isn’t worthwhile because the pick is more valuable than the player coming back.
(3) Just wait and let him expire — the most likely option and a solid one. Either buy him out and move on now, or wait until he becomes a somewhat valuable expiring contract prior to the trading deadline in February 2011.
I’m more optimistic about Roko Ukic, I think the team could get something useful for him — Either a serviceable player or a second round pick — I think he has some trade value mostly because of his age + athleticism, and some misguided notions about his experience from his Euro days.
I’d be interested in Colangelo making a run at Joey Dorsey or Tony Allen with Roko Ukic as the bait.
I like the 2nd idea ….
Tony Allen is just another Joey Graham. I’d rather have Stephen. Go Sooners!
You should separate option #3 into two options: the first being letting him expire for cap relief after 2010-2011, and the second being trading him as a somewhat valuable expiring contract next season. They’re two very different options, because the former is less than ideal for the fans (though team ownership might actually like it) since it doesn’t change how much they can spend aside from luxury tax ramifications, and the latter can actually help the Raptors add more talent if BC can find the right trading partner. I’m a big fan of option #4 in this case.
Option #2 is highly unlikely because a good sixth or seventh man is a pretty good deal at Banks’ salary range. *IF* Banks was an expiring contract this year, you’d be more likely to find a taker with that first round pick thrown in; as a non-expiring bad contract, that first round pick would be the price of another team taking taking the bad contract off your hands. Just look at the trade to Memphis just recently. Denver gave up an *expiring* contract *and* a first rounder for a second rounder. With that in mind, why would any team not only take a non-expiring bad contract off your hand, but give up a good player as well?
Good idea on splitting the third option into two sections — My preferred option from the four Banks options would be the third one, the buyout.
I don’t see much joy in the Raptors future, and think the squad will need to be partially torn down for some type of retooling process, which I think is best achieved through 2011 free agency so trading Banks for a midlevel contract doesn’t fit into my first choice plan.
That’s why I like the buyout as the best decision. Move on right now, don’t have it hanging over your head. Sign a good minimum contract player, someone who can actually contribute to team next year and sign someone else the following season with that open roster spot, instead of having Banks rotting away.
Second option type of deals — I think the first round pick is valuable enough (I have it in the #10-#15 range, which is why I wouldn’t make this type of trade) to offset the extra year in Banks’ contract. I guess it depends on valuable you think the pick is.
(1) Nick Collison for Banks + 1st rounder
(2) Martell Webster for Banks + 1st rounder
(3) James Posey for Banks + 1st rounder
Then use … Roko or O’Bryant or Douby … as cap filler to meet whatever financial requirements (salaries within 125%) that need to be met.
I think there’s a fair chance that those three teams would consider those trade options.
Even assuming, as you have, that the Raptors are going to end up in the lottery again (which in my opinion is unlikely), trades #1 and #2 are absolutely out of the question.
From every indication, Martell Webster is one of the parts Portland is trying to build around. There is absolutely no reason for them to trade him for a 1st round pick, and even less reason to take on a useless contract while doing so. Webster has a *very* reasonable contract. They’d be absolutely bonkers if they made that trade.
Collison is another important part of Oklahoma City’s young team. While this is more likely to happen than the Webster proposal, I still don’t see this making much sense. If they trade Collison, it’ll be for a 1st round pick. There’s no need for them to give up a useful part for one or two useless parts just so they can get a 1st round draft pick. And they don’t even need to save money as they’re already way below the cap.
The Posey offer has the best chance of happening, at least from New Orleans’ side and assuming they’ve given up on trying to go deep in the playoffs. Here’s a team that is over the luxury tax level and might want to get rid of some salary. However, the packages Toronto can offer are less than ideal. No matter which of Douby/Ukic/O’Bryant Toronto packages with Banks for Posey, New Orleans basically loses a serviceable player for two players they’ll never use (they’re deep in guards, and O’Bryant is a scrub). And in the case of Ukic, they barely save *any* money this year and next, and although Posey has a third year on his contract, that’s the year that most of their salaries come off the books so it’s not even that important they shed the third year of his deal.
And I’m not sure Toronto would even make the deal if it was offered. Either of Banks + Douby or Banks + O’Bryant for Posey puts them that much closer to the luxury tax level, if not further over it. Banks + Ukic would be the most likely to happen, at least financially, but it’s also the package New Orleans is the least likely to take. *AND* we have to give up a 1st rounder? I honestly question the value of spending more money for the next three years and giving up a valuable draft pick just to get Turkoglu some backup.
I keep forgetting that the Raptors owe their 2010 pick (lottery protected) to the Miami Heat. Hard to say where their pick will be in 2012 …
I mentioned picks #10-#15 because I think Toronto will be fighting for the final two playoff spots in the East. I think the West’s low seeds will remain very strong, winning in the mid to high 40s, leaving the East’s lower seeds with the worst W-L record amongst playoff teams. Those #7 and #8 seeds in the East would then get the first two picks outside the lottery, which would be picks #14 and #15.
The six teams in the East that I think are ahead of the Raptors are Orlando, Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Atlanta, and Chicago. From there I think Toronto are one of four or five teams vying for those final two playoff spots. The difference between those teams could be just a few games, so whoever misses out could rise/fall a few spots in the draft just by having some bad luck in a few games.
On the trades …
Portland have three point guards who they rate highly in Steve Blake, Andre Miller and Jerryd Bayless. They then have five wings who they rate highly in Brandon Roy, Nicolas Batum, Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster and Rudy Fernandez.
There isn’t enough minutes for all of them, some will be leaving the club in the near future (next two years). I don’t know which players they may be, but the only wing I’m willing to rule out (for leaving) is Brandon Roy. Right now, I’d say Webster or Outlaw look the most likely to be leaving.
When Kevin Pritchard does start deciding who he’ll pay and who he won’t, he will look to trade the others for first round draft picks. That said, I agree, I think this trade is unlikely because I don’t think Pritchard is ready to make those decisions yet … but they’re coming, it’s just a matter of time.
On the Thunder, I think Nick Collison is of medium sized importance (first big off the bench by end of last season) to the club’s present tense and largely unimportant to their future. If they were offered a draft pick in the #10-#15 range, I think they’d happily make that trade.
It all comes down to the pick …
Where does one think the pick will be? How valuable is that pick?
Also, for the acquiring team, how valuable is that pick relative to Banks’ contract and relative to lower first round picks which they could acquire at a lower cost?
Then for the Raptors, how valuable is the player coming back in the trade versus the pick? How good are the Raptors and how much of a difference could this bench player make? Is the trade worthwhile?
My answer would be no, I think the pick is too valuable to give up … but if one thought very highly of the Raptors future — 50 win team, pick in the early 20s, and that a good 6th man/7th man could be a difference maker in their season/playoff run over the next 2-3 years or more — then I think the trade could be good for the club.
From Toronto’s perspective, I wouldn’t do any of these trades.
It’s funny how our opinions differ. =)
I would do either of the Webster or Collison deals in a heart-beat. I do agree though that Oklahoma City would consider taking a 1st rounder for Collison; but my point was that they certainly wouldn’t take back Banks + one other. If that was the offer, I’m 100% sure that they’d see a different trade partner.
Same for Portland. You’re right that they have a glut of good, young talent. All things being equal, I think Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez would be the first two to go. But if they did deal Webster, I’d still maintain that while they might consider trading him for a 1st round pick, they certainly would not choose Toronto as its trading partner. No way they give up good, young talent in exchange for Banks and a 1st rounder. They can do better than that.
A big problem with Toronto putting together a package from Ukic, Douby, Banks and O’Bryant is that 3 of those 4 players basically play the same position. If the receiving team really needed a backup PG, then *maybe* they would consider taking one of our “point guards”, but not two. Unfortunately, most teams already have better or equivalent options at that spot so there’s not much demand for any of them, especially since none of them can be considered a “veteran” or a “young prospect” they’d want to groom.
I don’t think we need to make any more moves. There are league-minimum players available (Stephen Graham), but our 10 man line-up looks much better than last year (given reasonable expectations of improvement due to experience/better health)
starters don’t need to be rehashed.
pg jj
sg jj/belinelli/wright [depending on what is needed, combo-guard defense, offense, large sg defense]
sf wright [covers the most threatening wing player when belinelli is playing, if his defense isn't good]
pf reggie evans (making up for Bargnani and Turkgolu’s lack of rebounding.)
c nesterovic
Last year:
pg: roko ukic
sg: kapono
sf: joey graham
pf: pops
c: pob
A significant upgrade at every position
Roko Ukic is fine as the 3rd pg. You actually need one around. How confident are you that Jose is going to be around for 70 games? JJ is pretty durable, but still, he should miss 10 games. Roko will still thus see minutes in at least 20 games, and he is better than derek martin was. Furthermore, if either regular pg gets a serious injury (which is at least somewhat likely), Roko can step in. Until there is an injury, he can be sent to the D-League to get playing time. Didn’t we form an association with some D-League club? Some other team may also lose a back-up pg to injury during the season, and may want roko then. Plus, Coangelo traded hassan adams for a pick, so you never know what he could do.
With respect to Marcus Banks’ contract, the best advice is wait ’til next year. We aren’t winning a championship this year anyhow. Next year Marcus has a juicy expiring contract which we can parlay into a $6 million dollar player to fill a need.
I usually like internationals, but I wouldn’t trade for Haddadi unless we are getting some other useful player (as opposed to trying to get rid of bodies like POB and douby). He ties up 1.6 million next year that can be better spent (rather than on the 3rd center)
The only way I can see Banks being traded is if you include him in a Bosh trade. Since Bosh isn’t gonna get traded , Banks will have the best seat in the house of every game for the next season (if there is no buyout). But forget Banks , I’m more worried about Bargnani. I seriously hope He is working on his game. Watching those youtube videos of him in those international matches is getting me kinda scared. Running hook shots , no midrange game , no left hand … WTF.
gotta admit, that’s been scaring me a bit, too …
VL LIVES!!!!!!!!
Roko for the Suns’ Jared Dudley works and gives us a back-up 3. The Suns are covered at 3 with Hill re-signing, and with Nash aging, could use a prospect at the point. No better way to learn than from the best…
As for Banks, buy him out and send him packing…
I like that idea. Jared Dudley would be a nice addition. Good defender, rebounds well for a three, can play the four in small ball lineups, smart player. He’d be a good addition, he could help a team.
At least at this stage in their careers, I think Roko is better than Dragic too, so it would help Phoenix.
Man I freakin hate banks’s attitude. The fact that he is getting paid big time, and he is not willing to cooperate in any of our club’s decisions makes me mad.
I think he is probably in Hawaii doing the Hawaiian dance, and laughing at how he is screwing NBA teams over…
I had a question which that has been bothering me for a while.
If we buy out Banks, and he gets a job in Europe or something for like 2 million. Would he make 7 mill a year (from the buyout + the salary at Europe) or he has to pay some of the money back to us? If not that is the smartest thing to do. Just play your guts out for a big time long contract. And then just don’t play for the team well. Then pray to get bought out and get another job to make more money…
What’s the big deal about his attitude? I don’t get why everyone is so concerned about his “attitude” and being a “cancer”. There have been no reports at all of him being a cancer. If anything, he’s been a model citizen in terms of not stirring up trouble. He just doesn’t care enough to do so.
And yeah, so he didn’t participate in summer league, big whoop. How did he screw Toronto over? Miami sent him to us in the trade for JO, and we knew exactly what we were getting — a bad contract that would just sit on the inactive list. He’s not screwing us over; he’s being exactly as advertised.
very true. i dont understand the outrage, the way he prolly see’s it as a waste of time knowin he aint gunna play. didnt he drop 40 points or sum like that in a summer game for PHX, and what did that do for him? you think he doesn’t know nobody wants him, i’d feel bad for him if he wasen’t gettin paid 10 mill. he knows he aint gunna get PT in toronto anyways, let the guy enjoy his summer, it might be his last in the nba anyways.
and whats his agents name? maybe he can get me a contract like that too
WAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Why do you think they gave him that big contract? They obviously saw something in him to give like 5 million/year. It just happen that after he signed this big contract, he stopped caring because he knew he is going to get paid anyways.
I am pretty sure if he worked hard and actually put some effort, he would get playing time, if not on our roster on other rosters. NBA GMs are not stupid enough to give player big ass contracts if they didn’t see anything in the guy. It is just that some players do not care about winning, they just want their money…
Maybe if he displayed his skills in summer league maybe someone would be willing to take him off our backs for the right kind of trade. I hate his attitude because he simply doesn’t care as long as he is getting paid, and he is just not showing any interest.
trade roko while ppl still think he has potential, and buy out banks, or use that colangelo voo doo to trade him for something useable, keep douby as the 3rd string, unless any GM’s liked his vegas performance and wanna take him on (doubt it) and lets finish this damn roster. we all know what we need, Defense and rebounding, its no secret around the league, keep POB jus for the fact he’s a big body, like mbenga on the lakers, were not that far from having a elite team, just a few more moves in the right direction (and a lil luck) and we should be up there in the east in the next 2 years
I agree with the fact that we have 3 wasted rosters spots in Douby, POB, and Banks because they are not going to play. Roko deserves a chance because the kid showed potential last year. He could easly play 5 or 7 minutes per game and be in the rotation moving jack to the two and playing small ball.
About a trade with banks, i think the only logical option is trading him for a player with a larger contract and in the trade block. There’s no sense in talking about a Martell Webster trade with portland because they don’t want to part with him, is one of their young core that’s developing together.
I still think we need to adress the back up SF position, I don’t like A. Wright at all. He’s not what we realy need at that position. We need a shooter, defensive minded who can play the 4 sometimes.
I have very little options avaliable.
1. Andres Nocioni
2. Linas Kleiza
3.Ime Udoka
4. Renaldo Balkman.
Of course, the last two are much cheaper options but not as good as the first two. There’s no way we can get Kleiza, so the best option is nocioni. He’s overpaid but at the same time very overrated. He clearly doesn’t fit in the Kings rebuilding plans and deserves to be with a playoff contender. In a raptors jersey, a player of his caliber could make us a ridicusly deep team and a title contender right away. That’s for sure.
A posible trade for him could be including Wright and POB
—> http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mmujbl
Wright will give them the type of production they need and an expiring contract. POB will adress some of their back up big man needs. With this move Sacramento would save about, 2.5 mill next year and 7.5 mill when Banks contract expires. That’s 10 mill dollars off their books and three players who could contribue for thier team.
I think it’s the best ooption for the raptors to trade Banks and at the same time, get a high quality back up sf. For sacramento is a real good move, saving money and getting two young players who can contribue right away, plus banks could see some minutes too
By the way, the only reason this trade failed in the trade machine is because wright can’t be trade with another player until september 9th, so that’s not an issue for this trade to happen
about nocioni, i meant underated, not overated
IMO wright is our perfect starting 2 and he could (if needed) play the three. Theres no point of getting Nocioni (and his contract) just so he can play 15-20 min a game. But I do like Ime Udoka I think he would be perfect for our team as the back up 3.
One thing I do agree with you is our best case scenario for a back-up 3 is someone who can play defence and shoot the three.
Nocioni would play 15-20 min (or less) because Turk will play atleast 30-35 min, Bosh is our best player and will get atleast 35-38 (mostly likey more, and we need Evans to play 15 min (we need a brusier on the court sometime). So our back-up three doesn’t need major minutes
I said this on a Doug Smith blog recently. BC should try to convince the Spur’s GM R.C. Buford to sign and trade Ime Udoka for Roko Ukic and we might have to throw in a 2nd rounder. San Antonio might remember the game where Roko beat them at the end, so he might be valauable to them. He’s young, willing to learn, I’m sure, so why not? Udoka would fill the reserve SF nicely. I would feel comfortable with him out there incase of injury or foul trouble. He also played with Jarrett Jack in Portland, so there *might* be something there.
Now, with regards to Banks, I”m not sure about a buy-out. Sure, it opens up a spot, but we still have to pay the man, like, 5 million bucks! If he accepts to sit all year, do nothing and get paid, he’s a lazy ass basketball player. I think we should call his bluff, hold on to him until he cracks and accepts a buy-out for a lower amount. He might realize that it could help out his career in the long run.
So, if we keep Banks (for now) our next spot to fill would be the PF. So why not fill it with, I don’t know, Pops? I honestly can’t believe it’s taken this long. I figured he was a shoe in after what he did last year in that short period of time. Evans will surely get into foul trouble frequently, so bringing in Pops is a smart move to say the least. He’s a fan favourite and he apparently loves the team and the city. It’s a win-win.
So…
C – Bargnani / Nesterovic / O’Bryant
PF – Bosh / Evans / Mensah-Bonsu
SF – Turkoglu / Wright / Udoka
SG – DeRozan / Belinelli / Douby
PG – Calderon / Jack / Banks
Hey I’m okay with Roko staying… give him another few years and he’ll take the starting job… plus ain’t we building team Europe, come now… Roro’s a European. From the lovely city of Split, Dalmatia… if you ever get a chance to go sailing in Croatia… GO!!