It goes without saying that General Managers are measured first and foremost by their teams’ overall successes and failures. Being a great GM and building a top caliber team are, it would seem, co-dependent resume characteristics. It stands, then, that a great General Manager cannot, by definition, be so on a mediocre team; mediocrity and greatness are mutually exclusive.
Though the Raptors look far from mediocre this season, and the Phoenix Suns of the past were far from mediocre, Bryan Colangelo’s management status seems to far exceed his on-court success. Devoid of a championship run, the 2005 NBA Executive of the Year lead the Suns to nine playoff appearances in his 11 year tenure, but never lead them further than the conference finals. Colangelo, also the 2007 NBA Executive of the Year, has lead the Raptors to the playoffs twice in three years at the helm.
Clearly, the man can build a playoff team, but it’s yet to be seen if he can build a championship one. So how is it that the man known in basketball circles as The Architect is so highly regarded as an executive without the one thing that defines executive success, playoff success?
Well for one, he created the :07 Seconds or Less roster. Any fan can appreciate that kind of paradigm shift to the game, and one has to applaud Colangelo for his ability to clearly create a vision and stick to it. He gave Steve Nash the car keys, surrounded him with high-tempo players and staff, and resuscitated an exciting brand of basketball.
In Toronto, he has a clear vision again, based not on tempo but on floor spacing, shot creation, and offensive versatility. While it may not be as sexy as the Phoenix model, it is a system that is highly repeatable – nearly every move Colangelo has made has taken the style of team into account. It seems like simple logic, but NBA teams rarely conform to such rules when reshaping rosters.
So despite a lack of deep-season success, Colangelo is heralded as a top executive. This offseason he has continued his string of moves that show his commitment to a team vision, his ability to change on the fly, and his willingness to admit and fix a mistake. These are three characteristics that should define strong management in any business but are rarely found in unison in an NBA front office.
Thus, Colangelo’s reputation stands not atop a championship trophy, but more than a decade of sound management.
This offseason has been no exception. With the swap of Devean George for Marco Belinelli, Colangelo reaffirmed the uber-logical axiom that every player on the roster has a purpose, and improving any roster spot from one through 15 can improve the team. It may turn out to be a small upgrade, or no upgrade at all, but it is certainly a worthwhile swap from any perspective. Arsenalist did a good job breaking down Belinelli’s place on the Raptors, so I won’t reiterate it. I will admit, however, that the deal has increased my (sometimes blind) faith in Colangelo.
Every move Colangelo has made in Toronto has had sound logic behind it, whether it turned out well or not. An exhaustive list would be, well, exhausting, so allow me to focus on his history as it pertains to my favorite Colangelo move, the “Fit Flip.” The Fit Flip is a swap of two or three players not highly regarded by their respective teams, with each team hoping the other is a better fit with them (a ‘grass is greener’ deal, if you will).
June 8, 2006 – Acquired Kris Humphries and Robert Whaley from the Utah Jazz for Rafael Araujo: Colangelo’s first real move was to eradicate his predecessor’s largest mistake. Not a bad idea, and Hump was a nice addition for a while; even if he wasn’t, this was addition by subtraction for the franchise’s image and morale.
June 16, 2007 – Acquired Carlos Delfino from the Detroit Pistons for second-round picks in 2009 and 2011: Long-range second round picks are a common currency in trades like this; Delfino wasn’t getting run in Detroit and Colangelo saw something in him. Delfino had his best NBA season with the Raps and, though frustrating at times, could be a valuable commodity if he returns.
February 22, 2007 – Acquired Juan Dixon from the Portland Trail Blazers for Fred Jones: This was my favorite one of these deals, as it showed both his willingness to make this kind of trade and his willingness to admit a mistake. Jones lasted less than a year in Toronto, but once the writing was on the wall Colangelo had no problem swinging him for a similar player that could relish with a fresh start. Dixon played decent before hitting free agency (and is a personal favorite).
December 4, 2008 – Fired coach Sam Mitchell; named Jay Triano interim coach: If you consider coaching changes de facto trades, this was another that showed a willingness to admit a mistake one year into a contract extension. Triano has since been named the head coach and has been lavished with praise by players inside and outside of the organization.
February 14, 2009 – Acquired Shawn Marion, Marcus Banks and cash from the Miami Heat for Jermaine O’Neal, Jamario Moon and a conditional draft pick: Certainly not a small trade in terms of name value, but the on-court results weren’t much. Still, it was a trade that essentially acquired cap space one season early, allowing the Raptors to reload this offseason with the likes of Turkoglu.
February 19, 2009 – Acquired Patrick O’Bryant from the Boston Celtics for a conditional second round pick in 2014: This was technically part of a three-way trade shipping out Will Solomon. Again, it was shifting a non-rotation player for a low-risk, high-potential player – though O’Bryant hasn’t shown much, he has size and youth on his side, which is more than Solomon can say.
June 9, 2009 – Acquired Reggie Evans from the Philadelphia 76ers for Jason Kapono: Lather, rinse, repeat. Kapono had worn out his welcome (although to be fair, he was being asked to play outside of his skill set), and Evans adds necessary rebounding and toughness at the same price tag.
July 29, 2009 – Acquired Marco Belinelli from the Golden State Warriors for Devean George: George probably wasn’t going to play if the Raps scored another small forward, and Belinelli is a younger and more skilled player. His range could be useful if he can find any sort of polish at all, but most importantly he’s a good friend and international teammate of Andrea Bargnani. When filling out the roster, why not add good personality fits and keep your top players happy? If they happen to have moderate upside on the floor, too, all the better.
The beauty of these deals is that they are essentially risk-free gambles. Fred Jones or Rafael Araujo may have prospered elsewhere, but they weren’t going to in Toronto. With the NBA’s stringent cap rules for trading (ignore loopholes for my point, please), it also means these type of deals are unlikely to cost you additional money or cap space. They may cost you a few extra dollars (Belinelli) or a future late pick (Delfino), but in present basketball value this is very little to give up.
General managers certainly won’t be defined by moves like this. However, for a man with a track record as long as Colangelo’s, these deals certainly have value. They are building blocks for future trades, end-of-the-roster players, and low-risk gambles. If we are to believe Marco Belinelli will be an instant rotation contributor, great, but the reality is that even if he pans out to be nothing but a pal for Bargnani, he cost the team nothing and the deal had potential. Such is the style of Bryan Colangelo.
81 Raps
what to do at 4am i guess nothing because all websites are done uploading.. but wait RAPTORS REPUBLIC never sleeps.
Great site and thanks for giving us guys thta cant sleep something to read in the early morning
indeed. It’s 4:53am…
Lol, its true, I was just checking twitter before sleeping and this article popped up. The best trade though was the Turkoglu heist that we pulled off. I still can’t believe that we signed Turkoglu after he had agree verbally to Portland. BryCo has cojones.
Agreed the Turk one is great… but its basically all thanks to the city of Toronto and Turk’s wife. Big Turkish community, way shorter flight to Turkey than Portland so the appeal was there (read all this in an article somewhere). either way I cant wait for the season.
I still think the Belinelli pick up is going to play a very important role, bigger than we all expect… the raps show continues…
same here, 2:40 AM and I am here
Good stuff as always Blake.
Awesome write up, I for one am excited about the upcoming season despite last years expectations and subsequent let down. hopefully this year we’ve done enough to win some games all the while keeping CB4 happy, as overrated as he may be, he is our go to guy still! Let’s see what other tricks BC has up his sleeve to keep Bosh.
As many moves Brian has made which I love, there are many that I hate:
1) The Jermaine Oneal / Marion trade – we got stuck with Marcus Banks:(
2) Charlie V for TJ Ford – Charlie V is the better player and a big man. I know we had Bosh and Charlie V was disposable…but still we could have gotten something better I think…
3) Jermaine / Ford trade – Taking on Jermaines huge contract when he hadnt really played in 2 years and was not the same JO as the past was another bad trade. yes I know he corrected this 6 months later…but still a mistake none the less.
There are more but these are just a few….
But as you said in the post, BC makes good and bad moves. But atleast he’s man enough to admit when he’s made a mistake and corrects them. That is all a fan can ever ask for – a GM that continually tries to make the team better.
Also, one thing you didn’t mention is that all the while BC makes moves and tries to improve the team, he keeps the salaries and cap flexible to keep the Raps in a good position to make more moves.
My big concern is this: Does BC keep Bosh and try to make enough of an impression on him to re-sign in 2010? Or does he trade him this year for another big man and not risk losing a talent like Bosh for nothing in return?
What do you guys think?
Bob just in reference to BC’s ‘poor’ moves (but I’m going to look at them in a more chronological order):
2) CHarlie V for TJ : Even if one thinks Charlie V is a better player, the sum of the result ‘Forderon’ was far superior to Charlie (or Charlie and any other player for that matter).
3) Jermaine/Ford trade : can’t argue this one. Was a risk from the start and blew up big time.
1)JO/Marion trade – being left with banks (plus losing a potential pick) really blows, but is that worse than being left with JO if even for another year?
Personally I though BC letting Mo Pete walk and signing Kapono was his worst move
I’m not too mad at banks’ contact because that trade w/ marion gave us the advantage of having money to spend this year, which only a handful of teams had. portland got andre miller, detroit got two guys, oklahoma didn’t spend, memphis is broke, and atlanta kept their players. In turn, we get turk, wright, and marco, which i feel is worth banks’ contract. Now we start the chemistry one year early, and while other teams are developing their chemistry in 2010, we should already be a well-oiled machine (u can only assume).
Whereas, if we kept JO for an additional year, we would be just another team that has alot of money to spend in 2010, which reduces our chances of signing a big name considering the amount of options the top players will have.
charlie v, although a favorite of mine was considered redundant when we drafted andrea. Andrea was thought of as potential game changer one day and BC did what he had to do to free up time for him to develop.
Excellent move not a small move. . . True the numbers are not that fascinating when reading up on marco. . . But rap fans gotta realize that warriors were stacked at wing positions and MB really didn’t get a chance to display his skills. . . He probably felt like bergnani did under sam mitchell. . . A lot of teams in the states don’t value european plays as much as they do. . . But good teams always find a european mix to help their team reach the next level. . . The spurs are a great example with two euro elite superstars. . . Lakers with Gasol. . . Orlanddo last year with turkalou. . . Europeans play a more team game and its a different brand of ball. . . So MB will get a chance to really flourish under jay triano
Why are Argentine pros always referred to as being euro? I see it all the time; people tagging Ginobli, Delfino, Oberto or Hermann with this label. No one does this with Brazilian ballers.
Anyhew, welcome Marco! We can never have enough droopy-eyed, mouth-breathing italian dudes on this roster.
Oh yeah and another thing. . . GSW play a more one on one brand of basketball, a smaller but fast team that relies on one on one individual players, systems like that wont benefit a lot of players, not just european but players in general. . . Guys like iverson or marbury would thrive on that kinda system tho. . . To be honest, i think MB can be a bigger contributor then J Jack. . . I know i know jacks more proven, but i’ve seen marcos skill level, the guys got some dribbles and be the man can shoot. . . It’s just a matter of time before marco establishes himself as a ginobly type player. . . Not putting him on Manus level, but if this guy has a cieling potential, i’d say it’s ginobli and don’t be surprised if he reaches it!
Before he retired, Brent Barry was my favorite NBA player for years. I see a little ‘Barry’ in Belinelli’s game, (versatility, shooting, occasional recklessness, white skin) so hopefully he can continue to develop.
And, great article! BC has balls; he should let JP Richardi borrow them on occasion…
Or BryCo could just GM the Jays…
“Every move Colangelo has made in Toronto has had sound logic behind it, whether it turned out well or not.”
Can’t that be said for every NBA GM, though? Every trade brings a “we did it because…” with it. Some wonder why GS did the Belinelli deal, but you can listen to Riley and he has, what he believes, sound logic behind the deal.
Kudos to Colangelo for this offseason..however moves do not equal wins or success. For someone you laud as being something short of the second coming, he has missed the playoffs and, when in them, has yet to get us out of the first round. Some may say the times we did make the playoffs in his tenure here have resulted in ass-kickings.
I’ll continue to assess a GM’s success on winning games and playoff rounds, not individual trades.
If you assess a GM’s success only on winning games and playoff rounds, you ignore a large amount of a GMs other responsibilities (ie. the numerous shareholders they are responsible to). It also makes GMs that gotta handed the keys to a good team or handed a lopsided trade instantly good. It ignores market forces they have to deal with, location, financial situations etc.
Winning does mean a good team. Winning doesn’t instantly mean a good GM.
How many GMs have been handed the keys to a good team? One would assume that if the team is good (ie has success on the court and in the playoffs) the GM stays.
If a GM is handed a lopsided trade, does that not mean he worked on that trade and is, therefore, worthy of praise? Again, GMs are worthy of praise for single moves, but it’s how they are pieced together that warrants being called one of the best in the business.
Being a good GM, in my mind, is coming into a dire situation, turning it around and making something of it. Fact is, Colangelo has yet to do that. Depending on how cynical you are, he has actually gone in the reverse up until now.
He has provided the pieces to his chosen coach and his staff and for that I give him credit. Looks great on paper, but according to him, last years roster did as well.
Let’s get this team together on the court and re-visit at the allstar break. I do believe this is a playoff team, absolutely. I’m not sure that should be used as a barometer of Colangelo’s success, though. Take us into the second round this year or next and he’s finally done his job.
Well said.
I found this article a bit too biased in Colangelo’s favour. But I also don’t think all the pressure for a team to make the playoffs can be placed on a manager alone. There’s only so much one can do. In the end, the players have got to play.
Absolutely agree. I’m not saying BC is the be all/end all when it comes to putting wins up, but I think even he would agree that the ball ultimately does land at his feet. He hired the coach and acquired the players this offseason, just as he acquired the players and fired the coach during what was a disaster filled season last year.
Many here jumped on his inaction early in the free agency period, but now most are heralding his sweeping changes, myself amongst them. However, the creation of the roster is a minute part of the formula. Cohesion, chemistry, re-tooling a horrid defensive system, wins and playoff success (or even just holding our own in the first round) must all be accomplished and BC has to help get to those benchmarks, not rest on what he perceives to be a great team on paper. He failed last year, tried to fix it, didn’t work out. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes.
bc has done his job exceptionally well. now its up to the players.
hopefully he has.
on another note, i just had to share this:
http://www.stern.de/olympia2008/fotostrecken/:Olympia-Die-Bilder-Spiele/634192.html?cp=4
LOL
We as fans have the luxury of looking at wins/championships as the sole rational for crediting a GM (and coach for that matter) as ‘good’ or not. When in reality we do not know the limitations, nuissances and barriers put in place for a GM. And in reality that is fine. We could care less if our team wins with a 500 mil budget or a 5 mil budget. We could care less if our teams has 15 superstars or 15 scrubs as long as the team is good. To us winning is all that matters. However that does not tranlaste into a fair rating system when looking at a GM and his influence.
Lets look at Mitch Kupchak GM of the LAkers. Handed a team (albeit at a time that turned out to be a crossroads for the team), even if we want to ignore his early(ish) years, he was still given a team that would consistently make the playoffs and win thanks to Kobe Bryant. He has one of the largest markets to draw off of and an owner willing to spend consitently. Then he is ‘given’ Pau Gasol in one of the most lopsided deals in NBA history. (lets not even get into the Jerry West factor… a long time Laker and Laker GM… and his potential influence in this). By your reason he should be considered one of the best GMs around. But do you really think that could have been done elsewhere? Do you really think he is as good of a GM as his wins/ring dictate? I’d wager almost anyone else out there could have done this considering what role internal and external factors had to play.
This year could definetely turn out to be a boom, a bust or something in the middle. And I don’t think this year, or all the years combined to date with the Raps, should be the sole barometer for his success. I think looking at what he has done for this team and its shareholders (fans, players, owners, investors etc.) over the years has more impact than the 2 winning seasons (likely to be 3), 1 bad season, 2 first round losses and a division title do. He has attracted players to a team that has never attracted players in the past. He has and is growning the Raptors brand around the world, expanded a rather limited market by leaps and bounds. He has turned nothing (or atleast limited resources) into something atleast twice in a 3 (we’ll call it 4) year tenure with the Raps. He is getting fans and players excited about this team. He is doing all this on a limited budget (ie. below the tax threshold), and without a ‘phenom’, while still making a profit for his owners/shareholders.
Don’t get me wrong, wins and losses are important. But limiting a GM to just those factors will never do a GM justice when there are dozens/hundreds/thousands of other factors in play. I think its easy to see when a GM is doing a bad job (ex. Isaih Thomas…. team losing money [well losing profit anyways], losing interest, loosing fans, losing games, becoming the joke of the league all with a huge budget and the biggest b-ball market in the world).. but much tougher to notice when a GM is doing a good job.
He has also been in tenure for the greatest drop in season seat holder renewals and the largest % of increase in season seat costs over a 3 year period. That isn’t good off-court business sense, especially if you compare it to our darkest days as a franchise.
I knew you would use the Lakers and Gasol as an example, which is fine, you are entitled. But you also must admit that it’s an isolated incident. Colangelo walked in with Bosh and Calderon already in hand, a #1 pick and some cap space. Not exactly a bad welcoming gift.
Also, saying he has turned water into wine at least twice in his tenure here doesn’t speak well of, well, his tenure. If he made errors and fixed them, great, but he still must take blame for those errors. Some call them risks, but truth of the matter is you still must consider them mistakes. Colangelo has agreed himself that they were, so his believers must as well. Every GM has them, it’s the GMs that massage ALL aspects of their club that are winners. Otis Smith isn’t the most idolized GM in the NBA, but he did pretty well last season.
Long and short: many expected last years team to win as many games and be as competitive as some are saying this years team will be. Obviously, that was folly. If anything, the fan base needs to learn from that and expect the unexpected. Optimism is a great thing until it gets bitch slapped by reality.
I’m not saying BC is bulletproof.. he’s made mistakes no doubt. I wouldn’t call all his moves great, or all of them bad. When you gamble sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, and we will call it what it was a mistake (referring to J.O. ofcourse). But as you said he admitted to it and is going about solving it rather than just sitting on it and letting time take its course (infact he was working on it 3 months into the season). Another great attribute to have as a GM… being pro-active.
“He has also been in tenure for the greatest drop in season seat holder renewals and the largest % of increase in season seat costs over a 3 year period.”
BC did up season ticket prices (and ticket prices in general), which every consmuer hates… yet tickets still sold because there was a demand for them. Who do you think helped create that demand? Season tickets sales did decrease, but that decrease was a function of increased prices AND most importantly the economic downturn (the actual ‘recession’ began a year prior to last september). In fact season ticket sales across the ENTIRE NBA dropped. Raptors were in the same neighboor hood of season ticket sales as Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Portland (and a few others… roughly 11th in the league).
What I’m trying to get at here is looking at BCs job as just a fan you can go either way. No championship but numerous divion titles and playoff teams. Some poor seasons and yet some very good ones (record wise). And I think you can justify him as either good, bad or mediocre for numerous reasons. But as a business man, which is what GM gets paid to be, you can’t say enough about him, and I think that really needs to be included in any discussion of the GMs ability.
errr…factually you are incorrect when you say tickets continued to sell. They didn’t. Casual (single game) ticket sales were down 20% the year after the “banner” year, which was well before any economic downturn, and they actually stablized the years after, dropping approx 5% per year. The drop last season was two fold, neither of which had anything to do with the recession: the NBA mandated that comps no longer be included in announced attendance and the Ontario gov’t turned the screws and demanded that taxes be paid on all free tickets. While in years past you would see a full building due to freebies given away, you don’t see that anymore since MLSE would have to pay PST and GST on those tickets out of their own pocket. Unless every freebie translated into a $40-50 sale at the concessions, it was a loss. This is exactly the reason you see almost half empty sections behind the baskets at most games. If season ticket sales and casual sales were as high as they claim, most of those seats would be filled for 75% of the home games. They aren’t.
Anyway, didn’t mean to hijack the Colangelo love-fest, but wanted to address that one claim.
I hi-jacked as much as you… always takes 2.
I agree with AltRaps that winning games and playoff rounds defines success and not the individual trades. Having said that, winning games and playoff rounds this year would not be possible with that motley crew we had last year, so insanity is expecting a different result by repeating the same thing over again.
Bryan created the environment to get a jump a year early on somewhat blowing up the roster while still maintaining his core of 3 for that continuity. He really has the best of both worlds, and on paper, except for a few rogue writers just trying to stir things up, the consensus is without a doubt that we are set up for at worst, a return visit to the playoffs, and at best, a run for home court in the first round. Could we have said that after our 33 win season? Not a chance, so give Bryan credit for making this major a transformation in a league that is set up to handicap GM’s by the numerous obstacles put in place to make signings and trades difficult with the rules related to the Salary Cap, Free Agent signings, restricted/unrestricted free agents, etc.
Colangelo gets 10/10 for creativity and for having great relationships with other NBA GM’s as he is in contact with every one of them on a weekly basis, just like Babcock was lol.
I think that Bryan should take August off to catch up on some sleep, as he has had none since the season ended. Jay is already on record saying that he will be doing that, so maybe Bryan/Jay/Mauricio can vacation together and chill out.
Good article. I agree with Brian Gerstein that having a great relationship with other GM’s is crucial to success as a GM. That truly is the biggest difference between Bryan and someone like Babcock. Bryan and Jerry Colangelo are known and respected in the NBA. So, when Bryan calls and proposes a deal, you listen. You consider carefully. And you consider how your response will effect your future dealings with Bryan and Jerry (Mr. Team USA) Colangelo.
Not that Bryan gets everything he wants, but every GM listens to him. We are fortunate to have a GM with such clout in the league.
I wouldn’t classify the JO-Marion deal as a “Fit Flip.” I thought it was more a fundamental shift in the front office’s plan. They had entered that season with the assumption that either (1) everything would work and they’d be a contender, or (2) it wouldn’t and they’d have capspace in 2010 to surround Bosh with talent. When things didn’t work, it became clear that they couldn’t take Bosh’s presence for granted and that waiting for 2010 to bring in help might be too risky. So they decided to trade the 2010 cap space for 2009 cap space. Similarly, Miami made the exact opposite decision (I think it’s obvious which one is smarter – Bosh rumours have seemingly died down while Wade ones are becoming more frequent).
Colangelo’s overall understanding of what it takes to win is still up in the air, IMO. He has this very unconventional vision of where the NBA is heading and what will be the norm a few years down the road. I’m not sure I agree with it, or if I even fully understand it. Only time will tell if he’s a visionary or false prophet, in that respect.
But, BC’s best attribute has to be his ability to maintain long-term cap flexibility. No matter what the organization plan has been (48 minutes of playmaking, the “twin towers,” the Hedo era), this team has always been 2 years away from significant cap space. After watching Grunwald bury this team with his irrational spending, it’s refreshing to see Colangelo work. No matter what doubts I may have about his plans, I’m always confident that if they don’t work, I won’t be stuck watching it for too long.
you make some very valid points.
visionary or false prohphet? not sure yet either.
i think BC feels that there is probably no ‘definied’ way in which to create a championship team and there are many factors involved and stars aligning, so he goes with his instincts and rolls the dice when he sees fit.
I don’t think anyone has the formula, or magic elixir for winning a ring cause it boils down to superior talent, team play and other factors but i know he wants to win and thats essential and he’s certainly not afraid to switch things up.
Well I think there is a commonly-accepted understanding of what kind of teams win championships. Usually it involves building your team around a dominant low-post player, complimenting him with a talented scoring guard, and surrounding the two with role players that play defense and can stretch opposing D’s.
I think Colangelo believes that an offensive-oriented team that can dictate the game’s style/pace only needs to be strong on the defensive boards and play competent team D to be a legit contender. It definitely worked in Phoenix and I think he’s working towards that in Toronto. But I wonder if he truly believes this squad’s capable of the latter two. Honestly, I feel like Orlando this past year was the most Colangelo-esque team since the Suns were in their prime.
Some would also argue that not only are the wins and playoff success important but these wins and playoff successes are usually generated through some level of conistency through the maintenance of a roster.
Succesful GM’s are usually only tinkering and making slight personnel adjustments around a ‘core group’ of players.
BC has mentioned his core group over his tenure here but it has changed a bit and the pieces around them have been completely made over.
I hope it works this time around but there has been little stability in terms of personnel on this team and outside of Barg’s his ‘core’ players were already here before he took the job(Bosh, Calderon).
The one thing I’ve always liked about BC is that he has a strategy and goes for it, takes risks.
If he’s wrong, then he allows for himself an escape route and tries again. This makes the Raps a nice team to follow. Some other medium/low level teams get stale with 80+ per cent of the team the same year after year. Especially, some of the bad teams, their GMs would drive me up the wall with their 5 year rebuilding from draft plans even though sometimes it can work (Wolves/Grizz/Sonics/Sac)… BC just rips things apart where it doesn’t work and gets to work.
I couldn’t blame him for the JO experiement… since JO seemed like a quality guy on and off the court, wasn’t JO’s fault for sure that the team didn’t click (lack of depth/ or perhaps chemistry which is always unknown)
By the way, I wish I had a loonie for everytime I hear ‘player X would may thrive under Dantoni’s system’.
Brian’s tenure as a GM defines successful management. There is nothing mediocre about BCo’s track record as a manager. Getting to the NBA finals is fortuitous at best, a lot of things have to go right. Just ask Cleveland! But getting to the playoffs year after year and putting your team in a position where they have a chance to get to the finals is the GMs job. Not just for bragging rights, but for dollars. Consistent playoff revenues are what give teams the ability to sign that extra player or extend your own star putting your team over the luxury tax cap. Teams that can’t risk luxury tax payments have little to no chance against teams that can. Its been 6 years since a non-tax paying team won, and Detroit was not favored to beat the highly paid Lakers that year. One has to wonder just how many Championships Detroit could won over the past 6 seasons if they had been willing to go $10m over the luxury tax cap? (Imagine Pau Gasol on Detroit!)
MLSE may be very happy if BCo can put the team into the playoffs on an annual basis for 1 or 2 rounds to make that extra revenue and stay under the tax. The team will be highly profitable, the fans happy, and the shareholders/pensioners ecstatic! As a fan, we have to hope MLSE gets greedy for 2 more playoff rounds and takes the risk of signing that extra “star” player. (And not bail when it doesn’t work every season – cause it won’t) Unfortunately the decision to venture seriously into tax paying territory is not BCo’s decision – so you shouldn’t judge someone on something that’s out of their control. In the meantime, we can watch BCo manage his assets, with some obvious skill, while keeping below the tax.
9 of 11 seasons plus 2 of 3 puts BCo teams in the playoffs 8 years out of 10. If you can’t be happy with that kind of result, you’re really only a bandwagon fan at best!
So, curious, if I were to tell you a story about a team that won a division one year, barely made the playoffs the next as a .500 team and then the year following their win total was between, say, 28-35, would you consider that team to be well managed?
We all know that without chips falling in an advantageous way, a team cannot battle with teams with money that they are willing to spend. However, teams below the luxury tax (and barely so) SHOULD be able to compete and be a +.500 team. They SHOULD be able to have a 13-15 man roster to open a season.
Again, I appreciate your optimistic view and I’m not the dire BC/MLSE hater that some people are here, but I still temper my desire to carry BC on my shoulders down Yonge St by looking back at his history in the front office at 40 Bay St. Call that being a bandwagon fan if you like, your call.
To Bob and Hardcore: this is another look at about the things you mentioned about BC’s bad trades.
1) “The Jermaine Oneal / Marion trade – we got stuck with Marcus Banks:(”
No this actually is an amazing deal. We would have been stuck with O’Neal for one more year who had a 23 million dollar contract this year, which is ranked 3rd in the NBA salary list. This is an amazing deal setting us up for this year, considering we also got cash. Otherwise we would of been handcuffed for this entire year for something we knew didn’t work out.
2) “Charlie V for TJ Ford – Charlie V is the better player and a big man. I know we had Bosh and Charlie V was disposable…but still we could have gotten something better I think…”
Charlie Villanueva was an unnecessary piece at the time and the present, and at that time Ford was a player with a lot of potential who was/is one of the quickest point guards in the league. We did not have a starter point guard at that time since Mike James (that douchebag) was a free agent. Calderon at the time was like Ukic of now. Ford was going to be a great player for us, and he was for the first year, but at the end his mentality (ball Hug) just didn’t match with the Raptors who are a passing team.
3) “Jermaine / Ford trade – Taking on Jermaines huge contract when he hadnt really played in 2 years and was not the same JO as the past was another bad trade. yes I know he corrected this 6 months later…but still a mistake none the less.”
I know this trade doesn’t make sense, because your missing a huge part of the contract. You are all forgetting that Rasho was part of the deal. Rasho at that time had one of the worst contracts in the league at 10-11 million/year. So we passed this bad contract for another bad contract which might have worked for us, but just didn’t. However, now we got Rasho back for one of the best contracts in the league.
My point is all of Bc’s made sense at that time, it just sometimes backfiredon us because of team chemistry.
Does Bosh really fit into this new emerging Euro-Raptor roster?
What if BC had traded Bosh for Lee, Gallinari, picks?
Would the Raptors then have a contending team less Bosh?
NY Knicks payroll is $74M dropping to $23M for 2010.
You don’t have to be a bball surgeon to know what that means!!!
If Bosh in his wisdom decides to jump to the Knicks?…
Bosh did not care for the lanslide of boos that were becoming a regular event at the ACC,how is a MAX playa going to react when the crowd at MSG goes ape shit?
Well since im not a “bball surgeon” can you please explain to me what it means?
Wait i get it, you think Bosh is going to leave a GM who is basicly his bitch, a city in which everyone loves him and where he is the biggest sports superstar, to go play in NewYork where there is a “bigger market”, and he can be lost in the media and be in a place where all they do is overpay for washed up players and hope and pray for free agency that is years ahead.
If Bosh is commited to winning he can stay here because were trying to build a contender. But by all means if he wants to go to a place where incompetence rules and the future is bulit by hoping a player likes the city LEAVE.
Rumours were that buddies Bosh and Lebron were to join hands in NY with the Knicks who will have $$$$$$$$$$$ to burn in the big market. The Knicks current payroll is $74Mil dropping to $23 in 2010. If you don’t think they are gunning for a couple of max money players, you just don’t know the bball business …. where ‘love’ is left to the tribal honking fans …LOL
A super-strong Euro-Raptor team-play team is the only way they will be able to beat stacked teams like the Celtics and the coming NY Knicks who will stack their roster with several all-star players. Remember, the Knicks can go into the luxury tax because their income is so huge in the NY area. They could afford Bosh, Lebron and Wade … believe it.
I think it would be a HUGE mistake for BC to go all-out Euro and make the trade you suggested. The greatest thing about this team as-is is that it is nicely balanced, with skill, shooting, and toughness (mostly off the bench). Sure, we could still use some rebounding in the starting line-up, but I think we look pretty damn interesting already.
If anything we need Bosh now more than ever, as he represents quickness and athleticism to go along with Bargs’ and Turk’s skill and size.
I’d be willing to pay whatever Bosh wants to keep him now. Anyone we could get to replace him would not be nearly as good of a fit.
Very nice read.
I think the “Fit Flip” trades rarely amount to anything meaningful for anyone as we can see in the Dixon and Humphries examples. They’re made with the assumption that neither party is getting the better of the deal. It’s really rare that a GM will change the dynamics of a team using a trade like that but there are exceptions. When the Magic traded Ben Wallace to the Pistons for Ike Austin it was basically a ho-hum deal but Wallace exploded after.
Right now Raptors candidates for such a deal (meaning I don’t care much for them) are Banks, O’Bryant, Douby and Ukic. That really is a lot of dead weight to be carrying around.
Oh c’mon now. I’m all for fairness and looking on the bright side when somebody admits a mistake, but this is a hagiography that’s been written here. I mean we won 33 games last year – down from 47 two seasons ago – and we’re viewing this guy’s tenure as a success? I don’t want to be rude, but only a complete asshole wouldn’t admit they’d made a mistake and start “changing on the fly” given the record they’ve compiled. It doesn’t take an elite manager to see that. Its not like we’ve got Bill Belicheck and Scott Pioli in charge – we’ve got Colangelo, Triano and Gherdini.
I agree that this year things look like they could be better for BC and the Raps, but after the whole J.O. debacle I’m going to hold my breath until I actually see them play 20 games together. And while I admit it does look to me that BC seems to be on fire as of late, I think that if we want to give the guy credit for his latest successes, we’d do well to be honest with ourselves about his past failings.
I agree with everything you wrote,
but I guess I just like the way he goes about his stuff, even with the JO debacle. He rolls the dice and tries to make things happen, that’s all I ask.
Question for all the fans out there.
Where would you rate BC against all the rest of the GM’s out there?
Off the top of my head, I’d say he’s top 10.
I guess it’s a big year for BC, the 2009/10 season will really tell us a lot about him… Like 2010/2011 is gonna tell us if Walsh is a master
or has he only ensured 5+ years of futility in his tenure.
K so Alt are you saying that BC is a not a very good GM?
Tell me this, at the time of BC’s every single trade, was there one deal that you could point of at the time that was a complete loss?
GMs are not fucking fortune-tellers.
This is what I base Gms’ performance on: Every trade they make with other teams first has a purpose, then the trade is either fair or they are on the winning side of the deal. I for one can not point out one bad move that didn’t make sense at the time, where I was like “what da fuck is he doing?”. If you can please inform me about that.
And everyone keeps blaming BC for picking AB first and passing on Brandon Roy. I need to remind you that Roy was picked 7th. That means every other GM before 7 passed on Roy. That year’s draft was the shallowest draft, and its not BC’s fault.
All I am saying, BC’s every moves made sense when done, some of them worked out great, some didn’t. But the important thing was it made sense, and we weren’t handcuffed with them for years like the Knicks were.
Also, you are saying that the Raptors wins have declined in the past two years. Again I have to remind you that it was BC that completely turned the franchise around from 25 win season to 47 win season with completely changing the roster ( matching franchise record in one year in office). It was him whom raised the bar in the first place.
First of all, your swearing takes passion away from your argument, it doesn’t enhance it.
I gave him credit for his moves this summer and for trying to fix his past mistakes. That hardly says that I think he is a bad GM. If I thought he was bad, I’d say so.
Each trade has 2 sides and, as I said earlier, each side will have their reasons for doing so. Some people may question why Utah took Hoffa. Some would question why we have a Patrick O’Bryant or Quincy Douby on our roster or why Jake Voskuhl or Primoz Brezec. Whatever. I don’t expect 100% or even 80% accuracy. Nobody should. However, to say that this franchise has been successful under the direction of Bryan Colangelo is folly.
I have never said once that BC should have selected Roy. I can say that I wasn’t a big believer in Bargs at the time and I’m still not a huge fan, but Colangelo was honest and said it would take time. He has now gambled again by extending Andrea. Congratulations for the risk taking ability, but should we not hold him accountable if, 3 years from now, Bargnani has regressed and no team wants him?
Remind me all you want about BC’s first year. Fact of the matter is that Wayne Embry (look him up if you don’t know him) did the heavy lifting to clear room for, and help with, moves and the balls fell in a right way to award Colangelo the 1st pick, weak draft or not. Colangelo has already said twice on record that he wasn’t the architect of the Marion/Hedo final trade product, a trade that is being heralded as one of the best in franchise history. So, for as much as all the “good” that has happened in Colangelo’s years here, the two biggest (possibly) successful moves he has needed help on. Take that as you will.
What we should all be doing is sitting back and hoping that this current roster goes out there and runs rampant all over the east, easily securing a playoff spot and gets past the first round. That will speak volumes as a franchise, show the second best player that ever wore a Raptors uniform that he should stick around, and show that Colangelo can indeed provide positive results.
how can you not be a big fan of bargnani. did you not watch him play last year and witness the evolution of his game? how can anybody take anything you say seriously if you cant gauge the talent of a 7 footer who’s as fleet footed as we’ve ever seen?.
Guys… the BC love-fest has got to stop. Every year he’s been here, there’s been a “big” trade that will “put us over the top” and get us back to where we were a few seasons ago WHEN BC ARRIVED.
Granted, that team may have played a little over its head, and a division title was only ours because of our crappy division that year… but personally, the whole “willing to admit a mistake” thing doesn’t get very far with me once it’s been used more than once or twice. Good GM’s don’t have to revert to that tired line, because they don’t make the bad move in the first place.
Moreover, most of the “good” moves cited above aren’t good in any way. If you combine the major moves BC has made, he’s taken Charlie Villanueva, Jamario Moon, Rasho, Hump and a 1st round pick and exchanged all that for the grossly overpaid Banks, Bellinelli and Wright (both of whom I like as role players), and the privilege of signing Hedo to a rich contract that lasts until he’s 35. Someone please tell me how any of that improves our squad!
The little moves aren’t much better. Signing Krapono to a rich deal, then flipping him for another overpaid role player (who is a slightly better fit); Picking up the scrubs (Jake, Solomon, Douby, POB); Giving away 2nd-round picks for a guy you later let walk (Delfino)… etc etc.
The draft has been a complete bust since BC took over, since we DON’T HAVE PICKS TO USE! In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the best players in the league are most often acquired by their team on draft night, NOT via trade/FA signing. I’m really hoping that DeDe is that type of player…
AltRaps — I see you attempting to inject some sanity into the discussion; kudos!
RAPMAN – BC did NOT “turn” the raps from a 25-win team to a 47-win team. Bosh got a year older. Jose got a year more experienced. Mike James left. We got the #1 pick. All good things, none of which BC had anything do with.
I’ll give you this — he made two good role player signings in Garbo and AP. Those are not moves that improve a team 22 wins. IMO, he inherited that team.
What a silly argument. Unless you can show just how many wins the Raptors would have gotten without BC and the moves he made (Garbo, AP, etc.), it’s a moot exercise trying to reduce BC’s accomplishments.
By the same token, any BC apologist could make the same argument regarding the Raptors’ downswing:
BC did NOT “turn” the Raps from a 47-win team to a team. Bosh didn’t improve. Jose was unhealthy. Garbo was no longer on the floor. Bargnani regressed on his own. All bad things, but none of which BC had anything to do with.
Get the picture?
and BC REALLY had nothing to do with 2 of the 4 players you mentioned, since they were here when he got here.
I guess what you could do to demonstrate is show the cumulative wins/losses in his time here. The only question would be how long do you give a GM to leave an imprint? Is 3 seasons long enough?
That’s exactly my point. Where do you draw the line? At what point do those players (and what they do) become that GM’s responsibility? Designating this player and that player as so and so’s contribution is far too simplistic. How do you factor in things like management showing confidence in a player, thus leading him to develop, or the moves not made?
Here’s an example to illustrate my point: someone plants you down on a street corner, where you can either stay or cross the street. If you cross, you could attribute that decision to being yours alone, but then it’s not entirely yours since the person who put you there decided your location and your possible options. If you decide to not cross, does that mean you’ve done absolutely nothing on your own? What if by crossing, you get run over by a car? It’s not something you would ever know, having not made the decision to cross.
As for how long is reasonable to give a GM, would you agree that the length of time should depend on 1) the GM and 2) the circumstances? If we had given the helm to J.P. Riccardi (of the Blue Jays), I’d want him gone after 3 years of flailing around. Same for Babcock. It’d be easy to say oh, BC should only be allowed 3 years as well to get results, failing which he gets the boot. Is that really the best course of action for the team?
I’m not a BC-fanatic (I do know his record), but I definitely have noticed the team has changed since he’s arrived, and I don’t mean roster-wise or in the win column. Before BC, how much of a joke were the Raptors to the league? Even when Carter took us to the playoffs, and I thank Grunwald for trying his best, the team had no feeling of credibility to it. I guess since this is based on a feeling, it’s hard to quantify it into tangible proof that the team is more credible now, but I’d like for Raptor fans to think about what would happen if you got your wish to remove BC from the team. What real, credible GM would be willing to take over the team? Do we end up with another Mickey Mouse GM who lets other GMs push him around? How will players feel then about coming to or staying in Toronto, with management constantly in flux? Say what you will, BC may not be the best, and he may not lead us to a championship, but I’m pretty certain that the rest of the league respects us more, and so do the players that actually have spoken to him. That said, I personally would be okay with giving him as many as 10 years to lead the team before we review his record here.
don’t discount those Grunwald years, especially when you consider he was given the GM title with zero experience. He was a cap-guy under Thomas and he did pretty damn well all things considered.
Grunwald did more educating about the tax and lifestyle than anybody before or since.
I definitely respect Grunwald and was sad to see him go. I even appreciated how he would get in front of the fans and promise everyone things would get better.
If you want to credit him for the good (47 wins), you have to blame him for the bad as well. You can’t have it both ways.
Yup, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. However, some fans seem to want to credit him with the bad and none of the good. Just like you said, you can’t have it both ways.
Sorry, I thought I was. I mean, we had one 47 win season and lost 2 first round playoff series’. Is more celebrating and congratulating in order on my part? I wasn’t aware. How much credit is appropriate for these great achievements?
I was referring to other fans who have basically said that BC doesn’t deserve any credit for the 47-win season because he largely inherited the roster.
I don’t think anyone, not even BC-fanatics, is deluded enough to think BC should be praised for the past two mediocre seasons. However, throwing him under the bus is a bit premature as well.
But BC did change more than 50% of the team and only 3 players from the previous Raps team actually saw floor time. Thats pretty significant.
I would argue that Garbo and AP had very significant impacts on the team, as did TJ Ford who you can’t ignore as a BC move. Jose development and Bosh’s ‘breakout’ season also went along way to improving the team. Not to mention Rasho had atleast a small role to play in that aswell.
Not everything that led to the Raps improvement in 06/07 was directly related to BCs moves… but I wonder would Jose have developed as he did without TJ there? Would Bosh have ‘broken out’ without TJ, Joses improvement, AP and Mo Pete as threats and Garbo filling in the cracks?
Yup, and so I have no idea why so many fans seem willing to throw BC under the bus. I’ve followed the Raptors since their first day, and I can tell you that I’ve never felt this much hope for the team. And I don’t mean overblown, blind hope that we’ll win a championship for sure with one more trade, but hope for the team to keep improving. People are deluded if they think any GM or player can guarantee a championship. Look at Danny Ainge, who was a laughingstock until he revamped the Celtics. Look at the same Celtics again, favorites to go at it again with the Lakers, who didn’t even make the finals. All we can ask for is an entertaining product to watch into the playoffs, and management that is able to admit to and rectify its own mistakes.
Agree with both comments. Shame that the TJ/Jose situation forced our hands to move him. It’s a pity that Jose wasn’t happy in a Jarrett Jack-type role when TJ was here.
Personally, the year Carter re-signed still held the greatest hope for me in an off-season. This one is up there, but we witnessed last year what can happen with some change in the starting lineup.
The other frustrating thing in the Colangelo-era is the turnover in talent from year to year. It would be nice if we can stick with what we have from players 1-8 for a year or two, much like the Pistons did in their heyday.
Definitely. The TJ/Jose duo was our biggest strength back then.
And I remember that off-season so well. Everyone thought Carter would leave unless the Raptors locked up Davis, Williams and JYD. Grunwald miraculously did just that, and was heralded until everyone decided that those very same contracts were the reason the Raptors were stuck in the mud, haha.
I think once we have the type of players 1-8 that you’d actually want to keep, you’d see a lot less turnover. We haven’t had enough of those players to worry too much about that yet.
So wait let me get this straight. Now you don’t want BC as the GM in the Raptors? Wow that is a bold statement.
Obviously on every transaction a GM does, “he is helped on”. Obviously every GM has advisers, but at the end the GM who is the decision maker. And YOU still haven’t answered my question. Name me one transaction or trade that he did that you thought was an awful move at the time not after a while.
The bottom line is, I give any GM that works in Toronto except the Maple Leafs, credit, because they have the hardest job in Toronto than any other team. Canadian teams are the laughing stocks in America, and no decent American player wants to play in Canada unless overpaid. That is why I never blame BC or any other GM overpaying guys because they have no other choice.
Conclusion: I say this now, it would be the stupidest move to let BC go at anytime, because in my mind he is one the smartest and most respected GMs in the NBa, and the Raptors will never find a GM of this caliber…
And let me tell you this, the Raptors will NEVER EVER win the championship until the MLSE is willing to go over the luxury tax ( god I hate those douchebags) or the ownership changes to someone who is actually passionate about sports.
I don’t feel like researching this but I’m pretty sure in the last decade the only team that won a championship without going over the luxury tax was Detroit.
So next time instead of throwing BC under the bus, please people start to turn your heads towards the ownership not the management. There is so much a GM can do under the tax and that is either have players who are willing to take paycuts (highly unlikely in Toronto), or you are destined to finish in the second round of playoffs as your best hope…
Yet we came to within one shot of going to the third round, while under the tax.
Earlier I did say that teams must go into the luxury tax in order to compete for a championship or simply have the luck of a near perfect season to do so.
Rapman, I appreciate your posts here. You are a good member of the community, but you need to read posts a bit more closely. You are making out that I am saying stuff that I didn’t say and using them to prove your point (such as it is).
Your passion is a great thing, but sometimes you need to reign it in.
San Antonio was not in the luxury tax for their championship runs.
How about you actually do some research first, hm?
Also, if you don’t understand why the salary cap is a much bigger obstacle to the Raptors than spending into the luxury tax level, then you should do a bit of research on that too.
BREAKING NEWS: Hakim Warrick is now signed by the Bucks
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/52196297.html
1 year 3 million. So we couldn’t have gotten him anyways…
I really don’t understand all guys who question Colangelo. You can question some of his moves, but you can do that with any other GM (what Orlando is doing after just made a final). IMO BC is the one of the best general managers in the league because he is fearless person with style who knows how to treat players, communicate with other GM (also very well respected from same) and working 24/7. He is the guy I would always be proud to represent myself and I guess Raps are happy, too. Did he make mistakes, for sure, but which GM didn’t, but you have to consider in which position he was put here in Toronto. Raps are very marginal team in NBA terms wether we like that or not. Yes, I live in TO and I know that TO is one of the best city to live not just in North America, but in the world. We fill arena, we have very solid fan base and organization has a money, but (in terms of history, wins, non-American team of the border, taxes, climate, customs, exposure to media and etc) we are very marginal at this point. I would compare us with LA Kings of NHL, yes they are in big market, but nobody of Canadian hockey fans really taking them seriously as franchise, even Ducks with a won Stanley Cup are for most Canadians marginal team and nobody is compering them to Leafs, Red Wings, …. Even worse for Raps we have majority of NHL teams in USA and in NBA only one team from Canada. What do you think if is only one team in NHL from USA is LA and is named Kings, who would really from Canadian players wanted to play there. Positive thing for the Raps is that non American players really appreciate TO lifestyle and all beauty city can offer to them (safe, multicultural, open, good restaurants, nightlife….) and they don’t care about States from perspective of home land, because they already left their country of origin. Brian recognized that and wants to take advantage of that. Does he really chase only non American players, answer is not, but unable to compete on the par with other American it is logical for our franchise to take alternative road. Now lot of people questioning how to win with bunch of softies non American players? Who did it before? You don’t have to go further than Spurs one of the best franchise in last decade (in all major sports). Even without Duncan (he is also not born in States) two other players who carried biggest load there are from France and Argentina, you know who they are. It means you don’t have to have core of the best players from States to be contender, it is fact. In same time I would use Spurse for one more big misconception regarding toughnes. People always talk we need a tougher team (Oaklay type of players), but I just think we need guys who are smart and fearless competitors (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker are nice guys, quiet and only Bowen would be kind a dirty player there) and play for each other. We don’t need any nonsense here in TO we just need determined players who play smart and hard basketball.
To make it everything work is not easy even if you are GM in Sates. You need some luck also and most likely you will have to go over the luxury cap and don’t forget that some very good markets like Utah, Dallas…. have all kind of resources and advantage and still have problem to win all.
Guys it is not as easy as appear particularly for a only team north of the border and please appreciate more BC because I don’t think that many GM would be able to be so creative, smart and enthusiastic about this franchise than him.
Since we won 47 games 2 years ago what has our team done since? What should have the fans expected in the years that followed? Especially being one of the rare teams that had the privilege of 1st round pick.
Why should Bryan not be scrutinised for the direction that this team has taken since that 47 win season?
Everyone has right to have opinion, but for every opinion you should have a reason.
No 1 pick is fine if you have a player who is stud and clear cut and unfortunately Raps didn’t have that privilege. Barg still has a chance to be a star (18-20p, 5- 6r, 1 b is very probable) in this league, maybe not superstar, but nobody else from that draft except Roy who most likely wouldn’t be pick as No 1 anyway.
If you think that after you win certain amount of games next year is guaranteed to win more, you are wrong. In salary cap era every year is different along with injuries and other things like chemistry (Ford and Calderon) and players development (Barg 2nd year totally lost) and every team has facing same challenges. Look at Orlando this year they played final next year with changed roster who knows or Miami.
It is a hard and long process to develop wining franchise which will be attractive for older players at the end of career. Why I mentioned those players, because lot of time they are difference makers and make job lot easier for management. They are role players, but effective and usually very cheap. Look at how is nice to have Raso for 1.9m as a back up, but he is here just because his family and him like TO. When we start bringing more those type of players and assume our core develop right we will have a real chance, until than we are still building our identity and wining team.
I wouldn’t call a .500 season a bad season. One good, one mediocre, one bad…. 2 major injuries to boot… its not a matter of scrutinizing him, that is always allowed. Its always looking at only the negative that bothers some.
What kind of a team do we have?
Half our roster is D-League. The other half is made up of players that have obvious weaknesses to their game. Not a single player on this roster is a sure bet to build a team around (I would not build a team around Bosh, he is not that sort of player). Bosh is amazing, but he is Robin and even he knows it!
Is this team any better than GSW were last year? I look at this roster and the only thing that can save this squad is if this roster learns to play as team (with the personal changes, that is not always that obvious).
Do you guys really think this is PO roster? I don’t, I am sorry. We are a developing team with A LOT of question marks. Few Vets and grit that we must count on from fresh faces.
I am surprised how people are creaming over the MB move. He is a 12th man on most teams, and a player that is FAR from ready. In fact, we are counting on a lot of players to be ready for this season, who were not ready last year. That is a lot of gambling.
Sure its going to be interesting to watch it all…. but play-offs? I don’t think so.
I sure will be happy if we make the PO, but I am not going to set myself up for a meltdown. Those that think this team is a powerhouse are doing just that.
This team will be very entertaining, but there is no ONE on our roster that can take over the game, or that other teams will fear.
Compared to other PO rosters, this version is ‘Lite’
I am sorry if I came a bit too hard, I just love sport debates :D.
That is why I love this website. Fans know what they are talking about here, not like other people commenting when they don’t know what they are talking about. And I think you guys are the main reason people here know their stuff!
Good job, keep it up!
The idea that Colangelo is pushing (though covertly) isn’t so crazy. The Toronto Raptors should try to build a contender around non-American players as much as they can. When we drafted Bargnani with the number one we vaguely committed to that idea.
It won’t be easy or painless, but it’s a reasonable philosophy to build this team around. We’ve tried, again and again, to give the keys to the city to American superstars and we’ve got burned everytime.
Of course, that whole plan centers around the hope that Europe/Africa/South America/Asia are actually developing their prospects – which I know nothing about.
Lot of good comments. I’m sorry if I missed it but one thing worth pointing out is that Colangelo was inserted subsequent to someone who had no business managing a team. So while I think he’s made some good moves, there was really only one way to go but up.
I’m starting to think that expectations of Bryan Colangelo have become ill-temperd due to his initial success with the team. Obviously this is expected since it would seem the team has declined since the Raptors won the Atlantic Division. But what if that one season was anomalous to the teams potential? Many people (on this site as well) have stated that the season we won the Division title was due extenuating circumstances (injuries etc, I’ll be honest I can’t remember the arguments).
The question I’m trying to ask here is: if the Raptors hadn’t won the Division title in the 06′-07′ season, and lets say finished with the 6-8 seed and made the playoffs yet still lost in the first round would everyone’s view of Colangelo be different?
Depends on their record for the 6-8 seed, but, that said, it wouldn’t change the fact that the following year they were .500 and the next year were pretty much a laughingstock, finishing one game ahead of the Knicks.
So, no, his record would still be more indicative of a poor GM.
Well the year the Raptors made the playoffs in the 3rd seed they had 47 wins, the following year as mentioned 41 (.500) and the 3rd seed that year 07-08 had 51 wins. In the year the Raptors had the 3rd seed the 6th seed had 41 wins. If we had 41 wins that year (6th seed) which would have been a 14 win improvement from the year before that would have been an improvement for sure.
The truth is prior to that (3rd seed appearance) the Raptors were an organization in ‘rebuild mode. The following year we had an (in my mind) unexpected incerease of 20 wins (47 and 3rd seed as mentioned). Now it seems as if we have forgoten how close we were to a complete rebuild just a year prior to that season, and now our expectations have been changed.
Is it fair to say that the one (unexpected by myself) successful season has changed our expectations of Bryan Colangelo wildly?
I guess it’s not often Toronto teams win, and when they do we’re not sure what to do? (I’m joking here by the way)