The Indiana Pacers will not match the four-year, $20 million offer the Toronto Raptors made to restricted free agent Jarrett Jack, Jack told The Indianapolis Star in a telephone interview late Sunday night.
"It took a minute, but I was able to secure a contract for four years," Jack said. "I’m looking forward to playing with Chris (Bosh) again. It will be like our freshman year (at Georgia Tech) all over again."
The Pacers had until today to make a decision.
Jack said he is scheduled to fly to Toronto today and a news conference is planned for Tuesday.
Most recently DeRozan’s skills were on hand in a match up against Southern California native Brandon Jennings and the Milwaukee Bucks. In the game, DeRozan showed again why the Raptors selected him with the ninth pick putting up a solid stat-line of 20 points on 8 of 16 shooting, while snagging 6 rebounds and dishing out 3 assists. While DeRozan’s all-around game has not gone unnoticed, it has clearly been overshadowed by his athleticism on the court, particularly “highlighted by a backboard-shaking and-one DeRozan dunk over Milwaukee’s [Joe] Alexander.”
For the summer league, DeRozan holds averages of 17ppg, 4.8rpg, and 1.2apg respectively.
Since high school, DeMar has been compared to the likes of ex-Raptor Vince Carter and Josh Howard, but he doesn’t shy away from these hefty expectations as any other teenager. Instead, DeMar mentions bigger names like LeBron and Kobe. This shows me that DeMar expects to and has the will to do well in the NBA.
Demar considers himself an elite defender that would like to guard the others team best player daily. I think that DeMar will surpass the Vince Carter expectations later into his career but we can’t expect him to be the next VC in his rookie year, it is just not possible. Simple as that.
Chris Bosh, Toronto: He needs to get out of Toronto, like Gasol needed to get out of Memphis, in order for most people to really understand just how good he is.
Toronto is still hoping to lure Carlos Delfino back to Toronto but there is some work to be done on that potential deal. There are rumblings that another team (in the NBA) could be in the mix for Delfino’s services as well, and the Raptors will obviously want to get a clean bill of health on the Argentinian’s sore shoulder as well. Apparently Deflino has actually been proactive with the shoulder on his own … seeking medical attention/advice that he can pass on (i.e. – a “thumbs up”) to his future employer.
And the Raps remain interested in former Raptor Rasho Nesterovic as well.
Chris Bosh is in town working on his DVD. So I would expect we might here some reaction from him tomorrow. But it would seem obvious that this is a move that he would endorse and may have had a hand in. It was made public knowledge that he was involved in the recruitment of Hedo Turkoglu and I would suspect he has a involvement here as well. This is just a few signs that Bosh is sure looking like a guy that is not ready to say good bye to Toronto. His future is still a question mark. However if actions speak louder than words it sure seems like Bosh is looking like a guy that plans on staying in Toronto rather than leaving it as has been widely speculated.
76 Raps
With 95% of americans especially the Steven A Smith’s and Jalen Rose’s of the world who think Chris Bosh is 100% going to leave the Raps.
Don’t you just want him to resign here just for spite?
I like him and want him to stay but only want him as a max player if MLSE is willing to go into the tax.
But those anti-Toronto dudes are killing me.
As far as I can tell, all signs point to Bosh wanting to stay in Toronto. SAS just needs a friend or at least someone who doesn’t think he’s a complete knob, so he’s tring to get attention
A month or so ago, I wouldn’t have believed we’d have as many reasons to look forward to this coming season as we now seem to have. Bryan Colangelo and his team sure earned their paycheques this off-season.
Re ‘DeMar mentions bigger names like LeBron and Kobe’, I didn’t want to say it but watching him the bit I did in summer league ball, that silky smooth thing he showed reminded me more of a young Kobe that a young Vince. And that Kobe was drafted right out of high school (at number 13) got me dreaming a bit how nice it would be if we got THAT lucky with this draft pick … but hey, just a small fantasy that I didn’t think I’d say out loud that’ll go on the back-burner for a couple years or so.
This season could be fun.
A see a cross between Joe Johnson and T-mac
Either way I agree with you potential Superstar with in 2-3 years.
Bust possibility as well but I seriously doubt due to his mid range game.
I’d say Derozan’s chances today are:
5% Bust
25% decent rotation player
25% good player
25% Star
20% Super Star
I’d say he is more of a Joe Johnson…. if he continues to shoot a bit too much.
You’re right in that he does have the mid-range game that Kobe had. It’s rare at a young age.
He also has great control over his athletic ability. He could easily add the three to his arsenal. Pretty exciting upside.
No question that kid has a ton of potential. The thing is he will have help from Jack and Wright to keep the pressure off so he can play his game.
I also believe CB will sign an extension for the simple fact that it makes economic sense right now. BC made all the right moves to secure a good future if things pan out. Some nice young Talent shored up for a few years and depending on production some trade bait this season if the just need one piece to go over the top.
I’m a BC believer.
A great bench is when both starting/point guards can each play a solid to great 30 minutes per game. When we had TJ and Jose, their talents were good enough to really help us get in the playoffs, if not win a series (great wing players + good point guards + big,balls,rebounding = a series win).
I would love to see Bosh sign if for no other reason than to shut the anti-Toronto crowd up. Are they really so arrogant as to see playing anywhere but the us as a horrible option?
I would bet my house that bosh re-signs, simply because BC has done more than any Gm in the league right now putting serviceable pieces around their superstar. I mean honestly what else can BC do to keep Bosh? Plus he would make 30 million more signing with us than with anybody else. Good/Great news too is that in the unlikely scenario that Bosh does depart, we’ll have a ton of money to spend in what is being considered “the greatest crop of free agents ever” It’s a win for us either way IMO.
We wont have a ton of money to spend, we will have barely any money to spend..
Hey Justin,
Bosh’s contract as well as a few others will be coming off the books in 2010, which gives us money to spend. We would have enough to sign him to a max deal, which means if we don’t end up signing him, we can use some of that dough to look elsewhere. Basically I’m saying, the future does like bright either way if Bosh stays or goes. I’m not too worried about the future, and BC is smart in giving us wiggle room if we need to make transactions….
I really dont care if Bosh resigns.
If he does great.
If not then that’s about 16 million that Colangelo can hopefully use to get 2 or 3 Paul Millsap, Trevor Ariza type players.
either way the Raptors future looks bright w/ DeMar,Jose, Jack, Hedo, and Andrea on board long term.
It makes sense for Bosh to lock up long term in Toronto, and im starting to think he will.
but if he chooses to play somewhere else I think this franchise will be just fine,
i agree with it is what it is that…
“I like him and want him to stay but only want him as a max player if MLSE is willing to go into the tax.”
the Raps dont need one player taking up a quarter of the payroll if that’s going to keep them from putting good pieces around him.
I think Bosh is a top 15 talent in the league, and I sincerely hope he stays. Colangelo has done everything with Bosh in mind.
That said, even if Bosh didn’t want to say, it almost feels like he would be compelled to. Think of how big a douchebag you’d look like if your GM puts everything on the plate for you, surrounds you with pieces, keeps you intact as THE man, cuts you the fattest paycheque…
…and you instead go and play second fiddle for cheaper with crappier pieces with D-Wade in Miami.
It’s almost at the “foregone conclusion” stage that Bosh will resign.
Can’t see the Andrea vs. Sweden vid at work. What did y’all think of his performance? I wasn’t very impressed with his game against Senegal.
He seems to be playing a lot like Bosh – every drive is ending in a foul.
Missed some jump shots, but overall seems to be doing decently. Only saw the highlight package, so read into this what you will.
It would be great if he started to really try to get to the free-throw line. If he does, those Dirk comparisons will start to ring more true.
It creeps me out. I don’t see he has many “cuts” on his arms. His weight might be as of a center now, but he looks a bit pudgy for his own standards.
Did anybody else get a bit excited when they saw him follow through on his shot at 4:52?
Overall, I was more impressed with this showing. He was driving with more composure and had a better touch around the basket.
Bargnani would be a dominant player under European rules. With the shorter 3 pt. line, he remains a long range threat, but is a step closer to the basket when he decides to drive (making it almost a certainty that he’ll be fouled).
Don’t worry about the money “Max” or not for Bosh, that’s why Colangelo gets the big bucks, with the objective to build a winner, and his objective is to build around Bosh, leading to a championship down the road. Bosh or someone else with the max money in 2010 is a win win option.
A long way down the road, first a consistent winner is the objective, then a playoff winner, then we can talk about finals, and championships.
I am really pessimistic about us making the top 4 seed. But great job BC, you gave us a reason to watch the Raptors and be excited again!
I really hope we at least win one round in the playoffs.
Anyways… THANK YOU BC.
If you’re pessimistic about the 4th seed, how can you think a 1st round playoff win is even possible?
They would have to beat one of CLEV, BOS, ORL or whoever the 4th seed would be.
Your comment makes no sense.
Does anyone else see the resemblance between Derozan and George Saint Pierre?!
They both have simliar eyes and teeth…lol
WTF? GSP is a 5′10″ white guy with a french accent, how the hell does Derozan remind you of him?
Everybody in Toronto, Ontario, Canada knows that Bosh is not worth max money come 2010 … in fact he’s not even worth what he is being paid now.
The current roster with Hedo and DeDe will diminish Bosh’s role as a scorer, and force him to fight for rebounds .. something he’s not fond of doing .. unless it’s uncontested defensive rebounds.
BC can pull the trigger and trade Bosh now, mid-season or summer 2010 … to acquire a couple of top notch athletic players and draft picks. That is the most logical way to rebuild the Raptors and make them into a potent “team” … not requiring some so-called all-star franchise player that is nothing more than a waste of money and just something for the tribal honkers to jerk off over and buying his jersey to delude.
He isn’t worth the max, but not sure I agree with your particular argument.
Bosh responded very well on the Olympic squad, where he wasn’t a scorer. He was pulling down a fair number of offensive boards as well. Who’s to say how he will react if the ball is taken out of his hands? Lets face it, since he’s been here he has been the focal part of our piss poor offensive sets. If we can give him 10-15min a game where he isn’t and he is told his purpose during those minutes is to lock in defensively on the offensive end, maybe he’ll find the game easier since he doesn’t have to make himself available every single trip down to floor to rescue his guys.
Had he been a bust at the Olympics, I would agree with your argument..but he busted his tail to become the main option off the bench, so lets give him at least what some here gave O’Neal to get comfortable in what will hopefully be a whole new offensive scheme.
Using Bosh’s stats in the Olympics is a pretty weak argument to justify max money for somebody who has proven he cannot rally and lead the Raptors around his NBA play. In the Olympics the poor opposition were concentrating on Lebron, Kobe, etc and neglecting Bosh, which made him look better than he is if he were strongly guarded.
Bosh is only the Toronto fan’s favourite because he was a ticket draw for the Raptors. If Bosh isn’t a factor to lead the team to a playoff position this season, BC must pull the trigger on Bosh and replace him with several truly athletic players and draft picks to rebuild around a ‘team’ concept. You only get all-stars if you have a high draft pick and the draft is outstanding .. like with Lebron … and even that is not a guarantee.
Perhaps with the inclusion of Jack, DeDe and Hedo … Bosh will be extra motivated to expand his defensive and rebounding game while maintaining a decent scoring average. It will be interesting to see how this current evolving roster will play together as a team, and how they will function should there be the inevitable injuries to key players.
I said he didn’t deserve max money…..maybe you missed my opening sentence. Also, your last paragraph just echoed what I said.
It’s a gamble. Try to convince him to sign now to put it behind you or do you let him play out the season knowing if he excels, he will demand the max. If he falters, you can haggle him down.
AltRaps says: Jul 20, 2009 at 1:56 pm
“He isn’t worth the max, but not sure I agree with your particular argument.”
…………………………
Well what “particular argument” of mine were you disagreeing with? It seems your comments were repeating mine .. and then I repeated your comments with more detail.
In regard to your comment: “Try to convince him to sign now to put it behind you or do you let him play out the season knowing if he excels, he will demand the max. If he falters, you can haggle him down.” …. you and most others don’t take into account how Bosh may be thinking about next season and his quest for max money.
Like all NBA players he is using the “I love Toronto (or your current team)” mantra to lever against other teams who may wish to bid for your services. Then he dangles out the thought that he is worth max money. Bosh is rightfully working for his best interests and is not “in love” with any city or team that will not consider him for max money .. Toronto included. That’s the cold hard business of the NBA .. regardless of the moaning of the tribal honkers begging him to stay for less than max money.
My objection to a max money player in the current team setup is that giving somebody max money will weaken the team since BC and MLSE don’t want to go into luxury tax (which would most likely depress BCs income bonus). I would prefer two solid athletic player at $10Mil each to one $20Mil max player … and if the Raptors could also get a first round draft pick from a Bosh trade all the better.
That’s why I am arguing for a Bosh trade now or even mid-season to some team who desperately need him for their playoff push. I would be happy with another season or two of non-playoff, high draft pick rebuilding of the Raptors now rather than later and foolishly assuming that Bosh may stay with the Raptors for much less than max money.
I’m not going to hand hold, but you made out that Bosh could take a step back if asked to rebound and possibly not be a part of most offensive schemes. I disagree and used his Olympic appearance, where he was in a role much different than that in Toronto, as a basis. Will it completely translate? Of course not, but it does show that the possibility is much stronger than you made it out to be.
Speaking of things people aren’t considering, if we were to trade Bosh mid-season, the team receiving him would be getting a rental player. Not sure why you think we will get adequate return on that type of deal. I’d rather hold on to his rights and if he decides to walk, use the money in what will be a deep pool next year. His loss, not ours.
I’m with you on that last point — we use the (freed up) money for that deep F/A pool.
And it will be his loss.
I got lost when the claim was made that the Olympic competition was ‘poor’. You lose 100% of your credibility at that point.
he wasnt justifying a max contract! he said he agreed thats hes not worth the max!! why dont you read before you go crazyfingers!!
your expectations for bosh are way too high!! we’ve been through this many times before but clearly you dont get it. there are only3 players in the league that can single handedly rally there team. are you ready? kobe, lebron, wade. and only one of those guys proved that last season because lebron and kobe are surounded by talent. if you notice none of those guys are bigs! you can agree the closest comparisons to bosh are kg and gasol? if you look at there history neither of those guys ever did anything without talent around them, but there both top value anchors for there teams which is how we need to think of bosh. 22 and 10 is an anchor or a foundation for any team and that costs money. and hes worth it!!
to trade that away for unknown draft picks and athletic players would be rediculous.
also, bosh had way too much on his shoulders last season he was pretty much playing out of position. power forwards arent suppose to do everything which is what your asking of him. next year his role will be defined and he will be awsome. book it biatch!
FO U DPOS …..
dude grow up or go back to realgm you hippie!!
“fo u dpos”??? wow what a loser you are.
I’m not following the conversation here but let it be known that FAQ is probably one of the oldest, most loyal readers of this blog and the blogs before this. He just happens to have a very specific mindset when it comes to Bosh and he’s stuck to his guns for three years now.
I’m surprised I read this entire exchange. That being said I’d like to know if anyone, AltRaps, FAQ, anyone & everyone can honestly say who deserves MAX money. Aside from Kobe, Wade, and Lebron, who deserves that type of pay? Consider this 30 teams X 15 roster spots each = potentially 450 players. How many deserve max money, top 3, 10, 20?
I can understand the argument that you don’t pay a player at that position max money, but there aren’t that many players in the league who bring that type of consistent production, but I will admit it is a tough question to answer.
One other thing in regards to trading Bosh, you will not get equal value back in that deal. If we have to let him leave then at least a sign & trade is acceptable, but still disappointing. Remember one thing, with Bosh we have a proven commodity a “high” draft pick is nothing close to proven; as well we cannot guarantee when we will see this lottery pick because we can’t say when this team will be back in the lottery. The point is we will likely be on the losing end of the trade involving bosh, and it’ll be tough to convince me we’ll be better without him on the floor.
I apologies for being long winded.
I don’t have problem with Bosh making max-money, I have a problem with him being the best player on the Raptors. The best player on the team is supposed to have the highest salary and if him getting max-money implies that he’s the best we’ve got, no thanks.
Watching that youtube vid, Bargs is driving a lot more, but when he’s in the post it looks like he’s just throwing up prayers instead of going in with some actual plan. How many of those shots were him facing away from the basket with a no-looker off his left hand? I don’t know if he gets those calls during the regular season, or if he even makes it that far without getting called for something. A couple of nice plays, but all things considered, I still want to see more out of our starting centre.
I find it “raptoresque” (or all things Raptor), how Bargnani’s performance is being critiqued during this international tournament. We seem to be forgetting, that these games for AB are more or less exhibition matches. A way to stretch out and test some different options.
And I would imagine as well, that avoiding injury is in the back of his mind. Especially for this type of action. Watching some footage (of AB), I noticed a lot of fouls whenever he tried to penetrate. Fouls of the lousy type – and not just the kind that alter shots. In some respects, I’d think BC’s nerves are being tested, considering a past history for the Raptors. Sort of, damn if you do, and damned if you don’t. AB needs the court time — one just hopes it’s injury free.
We should trade bosh if he’s not willing to sign an extension sooner than later. If we wait too long, the raptors will be desperate and will also look desperate in the eyes of other teams, to trade bosh. This means that his value will go down. We don’t want bosh walking away when he’s a free agent, because that’s what he may do (especially if we dont get past the first round of the playoffs). If he wants to sign an extension, thats fine, but he does not deserve a max deal, I’d say that 15 mill is a reasonable price for a guy of his caliber. If the raps pay him close to 20mill they won’t have enough money to spend on other key pieces to fill out the roster. If the raps trade bosh, they should get a young star and a couple of first rounders to build upon, so that in a year or two from now they will be contenders for a top 3 seed.
I don’t understand why when people hear the truth they instantly press the “dislike” bottom. FAQ is speaking with some sense, and puts the truth out there and you guys are hating on him, as I saw many other good comments out there that has like “-13″. You guys need to be realistic.
I was so excited about the raptors team last season, and ended being really disappointed because I wasn’t being realistic. Now that I think about it we had a pretty shitty team last year.
BOSH IS NOT WORTH A MAX SALARY, and if you guys think he is, then you are not being realistic. There are only three players in this league that deserve max salary and they are KOBE, LEBRON, and now Howard. This is why:Lebron single handedly carried the Cavaliers to the NBA finals in 2007, while Kobe has made led the Lakers to the playoffs consistently, since he was with the Lakers, and from 2002-2007 with very little talent on the team, when Shaq and Gasol weren’t around. And Howard, he is just a beast…
So if you think Bosh could be even spoken in the same class as those guys, you are out of your mind. He has been with the Raptors for five years, and helped the Raptors to the playoffs only twice in the shitty era in the eastern conference, in the era that if you are in the playoffs if you were over .500.
You know what, if this guy doesn’t want to play here let him go. Honestly, who does this guy think he is, I am sure he wouldn’t be the face of the franchise anywhere else, in a team who is a serious contender. I would love him to stay here, but he demands max salary, and he is still iffy about if he wants to stay in Toronto, I would tell him to f off. With 20 million they are plenty of guys, I mean PLENTY of guys we can get.
Okay, guys you can now press the dislike bottom and keep hating on the guy who is speaking with some truth.
You don’t think D Wade is worth a max contract?
You are putting way too much value on a button people can hit at random…. I wouldn’t read anything into the like dislike option. As of right now there are 35 total posts and only 4 have positives beside them. Do as I do…. ignore the like/dislike meter.
2nd – FAQ gets dislikes on a regular basis simply because of the way he talks to people. Example. “FO U DPOS….”
3rd – I would add Chris Paul and D-Wade to your list of ‘max money’ guys.
Finally, as for whether Bosh is ‘worth’ max money or not I would say no if we are just making comparisons to the 3 (or 5) names listed. However, there is a need to pay him top dollar in order to keep him in Toronto. Whether you believe he is worth that cash or not can only be compared if there was a chance at getting one of the other top tier talents out there… and guess what… theres not. There is a need to pay Bosh a max contract simply because he may/will go elsewhere. If the Raps don’t pay the coin… New York, Miami etc. will. Where does that leave the Raps? He is by far the best player on this team… he is easily one of the top 10 players in this league. He is young and has room to grow (potentially).
Personally I’m in the trade Bosh camp… but if that isn’t a reasonable option (ie. a fair return on him) you gotta pay him the bucks. Raps have 3 options: 1) trade him 2) pay him 3) let him walk. I would say paying him is a much better option than letting him walk and getting nothing in return.
“i concur doctor” on chris paul as well as bosh. howard is a max guy to.
Oh my gosh, RAPMAN. You’re being way too negative about Bosh for me. I’m going to get really upset and pout now.
Until Dwight Howard develops some semblance of an offensive game, I would not put him in the same category as Lebron, Kobe, or Wade.
Hardcore you are right, obviously letting him walk is the worst option, but his heart is not hear I would rather trade him than have another VC in Toronto.
If you could trade Bosh and Calderon for Chris Paul and Tyson Chandler, would you do it?
the salaries match up too
yes! then bargs ca play pf.
you see where I’m coming from
i would do it in a heartbeat, chris paul is better than bosh, point guards in general are more important. Paul is the best point guard in the league, its too bad calderon is a piece of shit. And that it why BC went out and got Jack. Bargs can then play power forward, and we need chandler to rebound and clog the paint.
I was day dreaming of this scenario, and yep!
Chris to answer your question, I think it is safe to say that everyone in this website would agree to that deal in a heartbeat, however I don’t think New Orleans would ever make that deal.
But what I don’t understand is that why someone would call a guy with 98.1% FT% (ranked 1st), 8.9 APG (ranked 4th), 4.24 Ast/TO (ranked 1st), 49.7% FG% (ranked 25th) for a jump shot shooter, and 40.6% 3p% (ranked 31st) for a PG, who achieved all of this in an injured season (played only 68/82), a piece of shit. Calderon loves the game and he loved the city, so I don’t know why you are hating on him. I would pay 10 mil/year to have a guy like that any day.
And Mike I am not being negative I am just speaking the truth. Chris Bosh was my favorite player for a long time until he started acting like a douche bag starting mid-season. He started to remind me a lot of VC when he didn’t want to be around here, and I am saying if he doesn’t want to be here and demands MAX money, who does he think he is, he is no KOBE or LEBRON, just trade him. It is not like he is a priceless player that no one can replace his role. We CAN get a lot of good pieces for him.
You are commenting on his shooting numbers. Calderon is a horrible defender (and that is an overstatement).
Most ppl here would agree with me. Point guards always blow right by him. He has slow lateral quickness as well. Calderon does not go to the basket because he enjoys shooting jump-shots. If you want to shoot free throws (he is the best free-throw shooter in the league), you need to go to the basket. SO even though he is a great free throw shooter, he doesnt get the opportunity to shoot free throws. Therefore, he is not worth 10mill. He is not even worth what he is getting right now. Rightfully so, he wasnt named to the all-star team.
Nobody agrees with you. That is preposterous. Name me an NBA team that wouldn’t want him. Might not be top 10 PGs, but probably top 15.
I think the case could be made easily that Jose is a Top 10 point guard:
CP3, Chauncey, Nash, Tony Parker, DWill and maybe Rondo are the only PG’s I’d defintely rate better than him. These are the top 6 in the league.
The next group includes Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, a motivated Baron Davis, Devin Harris, and Jason Kidd (only because he’s ancient). Jose is definitely one of the better PG’s in this group.
DRose is still too young to rate above these guys, although he will easily surpass them someday, and if Gilbert Arenas returns to full strength, then he can be included in the top PG’s. That’s a big IF, though.
Rapman, for the record I actually agree with your assessment of Bosh’s attitude and value 100%, as well as your assessment of Calderon and many of the other things you say. You seem like an astute basketball guy and that’s great. Unfortunately, unlike you and many others here, I’m pretty depressed about the way the team is going. I think a lot of the recent moves that BC has made are setting us up for another prolonged period of mediocrity. I don’t want to hate on the team, but I don’t think anyone should be celebrating either. I don’t think this is an unreasonable position given the Raptors 15 year track record. I don’t think this is an unreasonable position considering Colangelo’s 3 year track record. 2 years ago we won 47 games. Last year we won 33. All I’m saying is we’ve been sold a false bill of goods many times before. Maybe this time will be different, but over the past 15 years I’m sure you’d agree that there’s been a lot of premature celebrating, a lot of unwarranted media hoopla, one first round series win and an awful lot of bad moments in between. What a disappointing 15 years for professional basketball in the city of Toronto. But I continue to endure with the hope that someday, things will be different.
And I’m not saying he BC isn’t trying to do the best he can under the circumstances. But when I see a guy say “Plan A is to resign Shawn Marion” and then go out and start celebrating when we accomplish “Plan B” (aka Big Turk) – that makes me nervous. And I personally like Big Turk better than Shawn. But I always get nervous when BC has to go with his Plan B, because usually it involves us having to get into bed with somebody like Solomon or Ukic. And somehow I can’t help but feel that I’ve seen this whole movie play out before – when I consider all of the fanfare and mania that surrounded the arrival of J.O. last summer – complete with Colangelo’s hysterical comment that it was the best Raptor team he’d ever assembled. Some of the same people who are complaining of haterism and negativity on this board today are the same people who accused others of hating on JO last summer and then turned on the guy themselves 20 games into last season. So hopefully you can tolerate my skepticism of “Plan B” and hopefully I will be proven wrong and 2009-10 will be the beginning of a new chapter in this franchise’s sorry history.
How do you know what BC’s plan A. B. C. etc. are? Are you part of the Raptors’ management staff? Or just so naive to think that everything people say to the media is the whole story and/or what they are thinking. You can’t judge a team to be good, great or otherwise until they play. This goes for you and everyone on these threads. A lot of what goes on here is fan speculation, providing an avenue for B-ball fans to quench their thirst. Take it all with a grain of salt, and let October come.
He can’t defend anybody and he doesn’t create high percentage looks for anybody. His high efficiency and low turnovers mean very little when all he really does is run the clock down and set his teammates up for long two point jump shots against a set defense.
Again, since he rarely attacks or creates for himself either, and can’t defend anybody, do we really want to pay a guy 10 million per year for on the court production amounting to a net zero?
exactly. agreed
I think saying someone is “worth” max money and deciding whether a max money contract is a value proposition are two different things. By most people’s logic, only scorers are worth max money, and that simply isn’t how the NBA hands out contracts.
Starting today, would you pay max money to ANY power forwards in the league?
It could be argued it’s not worth it to sign TD, Dirk, KG or Pau to max deals since they’re so old already. It simply wouldn’t be good value after a 2-3 years.
Debatably then, Bosh is the only 4 in the league even worth considering paying max money too. Amare is a 5 in my eyes, but even then I think Bosh is a better player than him.
What’s the argument in saying Bosh isn’t worth it because only LeBron, Kobe and whoever are? That’s like saying you wouldn’t sleep with Megan Fox if she offered because you heard a rumour Jessica Alba was in town. Evaluate what’s in front of you instead of worrying about what you DON’T have.
Great point Simon, people seem unable to understand the basic economic theory underlying why certain players get contracts: scarcity. There is a scarce amount of players that can do what Chris Bosh does (20-10)thus his value is driven not by what FAQ or anyone else thinks but instead by what teams are willing to pay for what he provides. Thus if other teams are willing to pay Bosh a max contract then he is a de facto max contract player.
Well put. Finally someone gets it.
i agree completely. except switch around fox and alba.
“JB54 says: Jul 20, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I don’t have problem with Bosh making max-money, I have a problem with him being the best player on the Raptors. The best player on the team is supposed to have the highest salary and if him getting max-money implies that he’s the best we’ve got, no thanks.
”
You kinda sound like you’re contradicting yourself.
I don’t understand which players people believe are worth “max” money. There are only so many top tier players available in the league and so much salary available to them league wide. To build the best team you need to spend money on the best players. The thought of saving cap space to spend money on a more “deserving” player doesn’t make sense to me since from the opinions of most people posting only once in a lifetime players deserve “max” money.
Mike I really think you are right and gave a +1 to your comment.
The reality is being a GM in a basketball team in Toronto, is the hardest and most frustrating job, because guys don’t want to come to Toronto. Except the international players, we have to overpay every player to come here. That is why I would never blame BC for overpaying guys, there is nothing else he can do. If he really wants someone he has to overpay them to come.
If you watch nbatv, it is like we are the joke franchise in their talks, they keep hating on us, underestimating our team, and talking about how no one wants to come here. I watched NBAXL the other day, and they were interviewing one of the players, they were like would you come play with us as a joke, and the guy was like “I really like the city, but nah I like it out here”, as a joke he wouldn’t even say a maybe on TV. And the commentator was like there it is lying in your face about liking the city.
Ya man, every one is disappointed about their “sorry history”, but are you meaning to tell me, you are not even a bit more excited that you were 5-6 weeks ago? The team that wasn’t going anywhere, is now being talked as a potential 4th seed in the east. So at least we are trying, and we have a reason to come watch the game again. A season that looked like a lost season is now looking to be a promising reason.
Brasky, maybe all of that is not Calderon’s fault. We had freaking Moon and Parker as starters. How can you even compare them to any legit NBA starters, good players create space for themselves. Moon and Parker did nothing but look to shoot 3-pointers. And think about it, Calderon with these shitty players got 8.9 assists a game.
Also, Toronto as a team lacked defense, none of the guys last year except Marion could hold their own guy in check. If was basically the other team missing, not us forcing them to miss. So you can’t single out an injured Calderon for all the blame.
You are eligible to say what you said right now in 6 months if Calderon is still doing the stuff you are blaming he is doing. Only time will tell.
just have to say, your name is freakin’ hilarious.
Parker is so terrible that the team with the best regular season record last year decided to sign him. But not to play, just to keep his terribleness on the bench all year so that he doesn’t infect the league.
Yeah, I’m a bit excited. I like Hedo. And I agree that we are in better shape than five or six weeks ago in terms of making the playoffs, but my problem is – I still don’t see how we ever get to the promised land from here. In fact, to me, it seems as if we’ve taken a step back. Big Turk won’t be around if we ever win a title – you gotta know that in your got. If we had just bit the bullet and gone after younger guys…draft picks, etc. then I could at least see the logic of a plan in place. Like in Oklahoma. I could live with the team being crap for a few more years while we built a foundation solid from the ground up. And if it didn’t work, it didn’t work – you start over again. But that’s never been our way. When elite players have come to us in the draft…they’ve left for either nothing or 50 cents on the dollar. When we’ve brought guys in…its been because they’re on the downside of their careers or because competitive teams no longer wanted them. In fact, I can’t think of a single free agent we’ve acquired in 15 years who has made a major contribution to the franchise. When things have gone wrong, we’ve replaced our no-name coaches with their no-name assistants.
And I don’t believe there is a genuine plan in place – mostly because of how much upheaval there has been. As I mentioned before, every 18 months Colangelo basically admits another mistake and deals away a guy he just dealt for. In this manner, Charlie V turns into TJ, who turns into J.O. J.O. turns into the Matrix, who has now become Hedo Turkoglu. Derozan falls into our lap at number 9 and BC claims that we “got our guy”. Bargs was our guy, now BC announces Brandon Roy was the best prospect in that draft. It is tough for me to swallow the idea that the real plan is for us to build around these guys that we currently have, as it seems like we acquired them to correct our past mistakes. Can’t you just see BC trading Bosh and saying that he had this trade in his back pocket as a “Plan B”? Or resigning Bosh and saying that building around Chris was the plan all along? I can’t tell whats real and what’s BS anymore. One things for sure – anything good that comes from all of this will be by accident.
Derozan is a cause for optimism, I guess. Young players, man. Young players.
So you’d prefer the Isiah Thomas approach of building using a poor plan. We’re 20-60 for the third year straight, but we have a plan!
Mike I understand what you are saying, but think about it. If we try to go young again, do you think there is a 1% chance that Bosh will stay, or any other big player sign with us? That means going into another 3-4 years of sucking for a chance to win, and by that time I am pretty sure the Derozens of the Raptors will be in the same boat as Bosh, whether to resign or not.
Take a few seconds and go to
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm
and look at their contract/salary.
Portland followed the plan you were talking about, they have been sucking 3-4 years 2 years ago, following your plan, now that they have all of these young stars on their roster, next year almost all of them will be all either FA or RFA. Do think they can get all of these guys back at their current salary?Not likely. They will all want star type salaries, and I don’t think Portland can sign many of them back. This year is supposed to be their “make it or break it” type of year and no big FA has signed with them at of this moment to get them over the hump. They don’t look like a championship type team right now and after all these years of sucking, here comes nothing.
Why don’t you look at the Lakers or San Antonio or Phoenix or Dallas or Detroit or Utah’s of the league. These teams have been good consistently and every year they have had a chance to compete for the cup. There aren’t many teams with plans for “going young” from scratch that have won it. I would say winning the cup is earned from winning trades consistently and bit by bit becoming a better team. Just look at Cleveland. Every trade they seem to have the better side
Yup. FOX is my dream girl lol.