The “what if Jamario Moon was re-signed” Edition:
1) What would be the MAX contract you would give him?
2) Do you think he would be capable of being the starting SG while DeRozan get’s accustomed to the NBA grind?
3) Can we really deal with his gun-slinging for another 2+ years?
88 Raps
moon again ? why not . we are getting back to the moon again, don’t we aerthlings. btw , happy 40th anniversary of the moon landing yesterday !
1) The less possible
2) Not at all
3) If it can be avoided, it should be avoided
Could we not sign him to help out the Raps mascot or something???
Anywho…
1) 3 million, tops, as solid rebounder, ok defender. Not a penny more.
2) NO!!! Might as well start DeRozan. They have the same tool set, I’d say, and any rookie mental mistakes that DeRozan makes won’t be any worse than the continual gaffes that Moon makes.
3) NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) 1.80 mill per year
2) For a half of season
3) Prob not
1) 1.2 mil.
2) No.
3) No. Not to mention his goofy smile everytime he misses one.
*shudder* i forgot about that stupid smile…and crooked headband.
1) None
2) No
3) Nope
Moon coming back, is right up there with Elvis sightings. I have better things to do … or read about.
:-)
…or comment about…
so let me get this straight: you’re not a fan?
Raps Fan,
Hope you know my response was not a critique of your post. I was kind of surprised that Moon’s name is out there. And you’re right about Mr. Smiles — he has frustrated me to no end. I’d really like the Raptors to move on, and forgetaboutit (uh … him).
I like our direction — hopefully JJ makes it on the roster, and we snag a few more pieces (like Rasho). I saw quite a bit of Douby’s performance against the Bucks yesterday, and was impressed. I know it’s only Summer League, but I think he’d helped our Bench.
By the way, enjoy the site. Keep up the good work.
RapthoseLeafs
Dude, I know. I was just playing around :) You’re good peoples around these parts.
1. 1.75m per, 2 years, so $3.5m total
2. Haha, Moon starting, you’re funny. I have Antoine Wright penciled in as the Raptors starting SG.
3. No, we can’t. That my friend is why you have a bench. I’m sure there would be a seat reserved for him if he tried such things again.
Well, forgive me as I’ll repeat myself somewhat here RapsFan from our Twitter conversation:
1) $1.5/year max
2) God I hope not. Shooting and Moon should NEVER be used in the same sentence.
3) His ability to play tenacious defense at times and energy off the bench I could tolerate and live with for 2 years, but not his “offensive prowess”. *sarcastically said*
1. MAX DEAL. The guy is a stud
2. Of Course he should be starting, he would start on the Lakers
3. 2 years !?!?!?! More like 6 years man lets get him locked up for life
Okay seriously now Who the Hell would want him back? Hes not coming back and the idea is just horrible. The last thing i want to see is an athletic freak settle for 3s and not try on D, then see him just laugh it off like a douchebag.
WTF?
Not saying we should, was inspired by this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Who-wants-Jamario-Moon-?urn=nba,177244
But Dwyer was inspired by my “compare the athleticism of Double D to Jamario Moon” post of a couple of days ago. As an aside, why didn’t moon have a nickname when he was here? I always thought of him as “Chuckles”.
1) Max? Maybe a bit over $4 million a year, 3 years. We don’t have that kinda cash to spend if we get Jack, though.
2) I’d much prefer him at SF.
3) Yes. He didn’t shoot as much or as poorly as Raptors Nation seems to remember.
1) 1.5
2) Rather have matt barnes
3) NO
1) 1 non guaranteed dollar
2) No
3) No
Please, jamario back? really? the team is going to another direction. high IQ players, complete and with brains
Plus, I’ve got a strong and out-of-nowhere feeling that the pacers will match jack’s offer. Welcome Kleiza then
I’m going to go right ahead and say that the JO-for-Marion trade made me jump for joy for exactly 1 reason, and that was that Moon was gone.
So… take my answers with a grain of salt.
1) Fair market value… probably LLE for 2 years.
2) No. Wright is a better defensive option, and I don’t want to watch Moon hoist up covered 3-pointers while Bosh and Bargs (and Turkoglu… and Jose) stand there.
3) No. Please no. Sign AI. Bring in Magloire at centre. Play Bargs at the 3! Anything but Moon!
LMFA @ play bargs at the 3
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
1) Don’t have a good answer as I would still like to sign a big (Rasho?) and you may need the Bi-Ann for Rasho(?). I.e don’t know what’s left. I think Miami QO is around $1M? If we could (and the cap math worked) squeeze him in for around $2M, I’d likely go for it.
2) Sure. I think the “new look” Raptors squad has all kinds of firepower. The issue previously was Moon hoisting up shots midway through the clock. Jay would have to ensure he knew his role if he were to join us again. We have 4 starters that can score the ball (and need their touches), so Moon could be the one defensive presence out there as well help with the rebounding issues with this squad. He can also set up on the off side and streak in (as he’s capable of doing) for the odd offensive board as well.
Then you have have DeRozan come off the bench as another scoring option, while bringing in Evans around the same time to keep a defensive and rebounding presence. One issue last year was when Bosh/Jose or Bosh/Bargs were out, we didn’t have a decent 2nd line scoring option. Having DeRozan come on with, say, Jack while one or two of Bosh, Bargs and Turk still in the game provides plenty of offense.
3) See comment above – Moon would have to have a heart to heart first with Jay/BC and understand he’s a KEY role player – but NOT a scorer. Although shot SELECTION was poor – his 3pt% overall was okay – 36%.
In the end, our biggest holes right now are A) rebounding B) defense – esp at the 2/3 spot. Jamario is likely an economical option to help fill these gaps.
Wow – didn’t see any comments when I started posting – and it looks like I’m near alone in thinking it could be an option! {btw, sorry for the long post). Think: inexpensive, fills gaps and *A BIG IF* – if he didn’t take many shots given the scorers on the floor that would be with him. [BTW, I like Barnes much better as well - but more money and he's likely going to end up in ORL, CLE or DAL > so I don't know if its a realistic option - if it was then I'd be all over that]
As a last resort I’d consider Moon again, but not at the cost of him starting at SG let alone before DeMar. At best Jamario’s a 9 to 12 guy in the pecking order on any team or he at least should be.
You’re likely right. I do feel we have a hole or two at the 2/3 and I would like to see a larger defender (relative) – frankly its my ignorance how good (or not) Wright is (just haven’t watched him enough). My thoughts were Jamario may be good value (again IF we could coach him on his shot selection).
I just see us being very small at the 1/2 >> perhaps Jack or Douby get a little time at the 2 – and we’d have some difficult matchups on the defensive end.
I don’t see a ton of option for the price we can afford.
The only way I see Moon returning is if Sam Mitchell takes over as GM.
Moon? Are you kidding? I respect Dwyer, but Moon is a bad player. Bringing him back would be like getting back together with an ex who is not interesting or attractive. No way buddy. If we are just looking for atleticism, I’d rather sign Hussien Bolt or Michael Phelps.
The two teams he played for don’t particularly want him. That should be enough to tell the story
1. NO
2. NO
3. NO
(1) $3-4 million
(2) Yes
(3) I’d only be interested in Jamario Moon if it were a one year deal. Someone to smooth over the transition, rather than a long term fix.
You can’t be serious? 3-4M for Moon? Explain.
Jarrett Jack is about to sign a $20 million four year contract, which likely starts somewhere around $4.5 million.
For this team, as currently formed, I think Jamario Moon would add more to the Raptors than Jarrett Jack. The team desperately needs more rebounding, and Jamario Moon is very good rebounding wing. Moon is also a solid defender, on a team that I think is shaping up to be poor-to-very poor defensively next season.
In other words, Jamario Moon is the type of glue guy that this team needs. His relative strengths help provide some cover to team-wide weaknesses. In a perfect world you’d much rather have a better version of Moon, but that isn’t available. Versus what is available, Moon adds more in the short term than most options, so I’m willing to pay him the majority of the MLE.
Like I said, I would be unhappy with Moon coming here on a contract that lasts beyond one year. But as a short term fix? He can do that, and he’s good value for that.
Wow, had to stop reading when I saw “Jamario” and “glue guy” in the same sentence. Moon has no flow to his game and consistantly disrupts rotations and sets on both sides of the floor…sporatic dynamic plays don’t make up for a low bball (and general) IQ.
…not to mention that if any team tosses a $1.5m contract his way he would sign instantly.
I think what Dave meant by “glue guy” was that Jamario was the guy that either: a) sniffs glue, or b) used to eat a lot of glue when he was a child. No way could he possibly be a player that increases the unity of a professional sports team.
I thought the idea was to encourage Bosh to stay.
I’m glad you can’t offer him the majority of the MLE. =)
BTW, Jack is being overpaid to guarantee his services; you can’t compare the two contracts. If Moon gets 3-4 mil, then players like Kleiza and Barnes should receive 5-6 mil. That they’re struggling to get a deal above 2 mil should tell you something.
And I’m sorry, but I never want to see “solid” and “defender” in the same sentence as Moon. Sure, if you look at stats only, he gets a good amount of steals and blocks, but if you’ve watched every game of his as a Raptor, he was as likely to commit to a pump fake as Will Solomon was to jack up a shot, 18 seconds left on the clock, game tied with under a minute left. If that’s solid defense, then I guess the article I read about the Cavs potentially signing Joey Graham as a “superb defender” is right on that count as well.
I’m sorry, but there’s no way Moon gets above the minimum contract allowable over here.
NEW POLL:
Would your rather resign Joey Graham or Jamario Moon??
now thats one to get the gears turning….
A classic example of “the lesser of two idiots”
I’m picking Jamario Moon in a landslide!
I’d love to see a poll on where the Raptors stand next season. For example, which of the following do you think best describes the Toronto Raptors, are they (1) Eastern Conference Contenders (2) 4th or 5th seed (3) 6th-8th low seed playoff team (4) Non-playoff team.
all of the above!
Whoah I just got curious and found out what Jumpshootio Moon’s pre-draft measurements were and he has a vertical of 43 inches and a max reach of 12ft 2 inches – matching the vert of Vince Carter and exceeded by Nate Robinson among current players…
zero d
zero shooting
zero intensity
zero ball IQ
That adds up to a contract worth….ZERO.
1) The minimum, that’s about it
2) Yes, but only if the Raps want to make a run at the #1 overall pick next year
3) Sure, why not aim for multiple #1 picks
1) I would give him the minimum amount of money possible (350,000 max?)
2) He would be nailed to the bench unless there was an injury to antoine wright or demar derozan
3)If he shoots 1 three pointer in one game (unless he’s wide wide open) or 3 mid range jump-shots in one game, then I would suspend him for at least 5 games.
haha he could be suspended “for actions detrimental to the team” lol
*detrimental to the fans as well, how many times do I have to yell at him to tell him to stop, or at the coach to bench him
I smell lawsuit… “Jamario Moon gave me high blood pressure!”
Why is this even being discussed? Have we not learned our lessons about him!!! Next topic please!
1) no
2) No
3) NOOOOOOO
I would rage so hard on BC’s face if he signed Jumpshootio again…
1) 1.5 mil a season
2)Possibly… but I think I would rather have DD start and let him have a taste of NBA play
3)Moon got a bit of a raw deal. He got alot of the blame for T.O.’s poor play and I don’t really think it was his fault. Yes he did stop taking the ball to the hole… but in fairness he was not protected from being hammered (and we saw him take a couple good tumbles without his teammates standing up for him). At the same time he simply isn’t as good of a shooter as he seems to think he is.
I guess with Moon its a question of whether he is willing to take that extra step and be aggressive both offensively and on the boards. The guy is great defender, if a bit weak physically.
1)Well I’d pay him with a manwiches and corn bread for two years
2)I’d make him the new mascot to replace the Raptor while Douby gets the job
3)Yes as long as he’s the mascot
The Raptors need a backup SF. Right now, I see DeRozan getting a lot of minutes there, because I don’t think Devean George is going to get them. But is that player Jamario Moon? Is that player even Matt Barnes, or Carlos Delfino?
Raptors’ depth chart and projected minutes (assuming Indiana passes on Jack):
1 Calderon (32), Jack (24), Ukic (5), Douby (5), Banks
2 Wright (20), Jack, DeRozan (20), Douby, George
3 Turkoglu (36), DeRozan, Wright, George
4 Bosh (36), Evans (20), Turkoglu, O’Bryant
5 Bargnani (32), Evans, O’Bryant
(In this rotation, O’Bryant, George, and Banks are given 0 minutes)
The total there is short 10 minutes, I believe. Does it look like the Raptors need ten more minutes at the wing position? No. It’s already crowded. Jack’s minutes are probably even on the low side. I even put Turkoglu at the 4, partly accounting for potential small-ball lineups, but also because the Raptors have a terrible front line. Clearly, those ten minutes need to be spent on a half-decent backup centre, such as Rasho Nesterovic.
Think of it this way. After signing Jack, are the Raptors able to get anything that is an upgrade over Wright/DeRozan at the 3 with either the leftover MLE or the LLE? And if they use the LLE, will that upgrade be more of an upgrade than Nesterovic over O’Bryant? The only possibility is Delfino, and I don’t think he’s that much better than Wright or DeRozan. The Raps should get Nesterovic and then stand pat, especially with the cap coming down in ‘10-11.
Now, if the Raptors don’t get Jack, then the question becomes, which gaping hole do you plug with the MLE- backup point guard, or backup centre? Jack works because that allows Wright and DeRozan to play the leftover minutes at the 2 and the minutes at the 3, filling needs at the 1, 2, and 3. I think it’s a good idea to make someone like Jack the first priority (MLE), because it just makes the roster work. The second priority (LLE) is a backup big, and only with whatever is left, a wing player who can rebound. Ignore Delfino.
1) Minimum that he can get paid.
2) Yes, but if he proves he isn’t then give another guy a chance like Wright, or if DD is ready let him start.
3) Not me personally, but I will only be watching the Raptors from a box score and highlights, not dealing with the stress of his cringe worthy screw ups live, while watching Raptors games. So no I don’t think folks watching the game will be able to, so let’s not resign him please.
seriously?
i guess from a strictly objective standpoint, in a role that suits him, and in a situation where he wouldn’t be replied upon for offense, sure. but that means, IMO, around 1.5 per on a max 2-yr deal. he fucked himself over last year, he had a shot to set himself up for life, and didn’t take it. why bail him out now? he’s gonna have to earn that super payday.
thing is…as a 2, his handle is pretty brutal, his decision-making horrid, and shot selection questionable. what kind of role does a guy like that play? defensively & on the glass, for sure, he’s an above-average SG. i just don’t get the impression that he has (or ever will) ‘get it.’
in all honesty, i’d probably rather wright start.
and no, i couldn’t deal with it. the mere thought of his return is giving me ‘i shall now light myself on fire’ feelings…
Hedo Turkoglu and Jose Calderon will have the ball in their hands the majority of the time, and will be making the majority of the decisions. And when it’s not in their hands, it will be in Bosh’s or Bargnani’s hands. Moon will never be asked to create anything offensively.
In this lineup, his limitations as a ballhandler, passer, decision maker are largely unimportant. However, Moon’s rebounding prowess and solid defense are very important because collectively the Raptors look weak in those areas.
Furthermore, with the shooters Toronto have in the starting lineup — Calderon, Turkoglu, Bargnani and Bosh — the Raptors can easily afford to have a so-so shooter as the fifth wheel. Last season, Moon hit 46.5% of his jump shots and 35.5% from three point range, which would rank him as the fourth best in this lineup with Bosh as the fifth best jump shooter. That’s still an incredibly strong lineup in terms of jump shooting. As the fifth best offensive player on the floor and as a guy who takes only 8 shots a night, he’s a fine fit offensively alongside these guys.
Jamario Moon is a very good fit as a two guard alongside the Raptors other starters. His weaknesses make him a questionable fit as a two guard in some other teams, but for this Raptors team he’s a very good fit. His flaws are covered, and his strengths add serious value to the team.
if you’re thinking of him as the starter, playing alongside those mentioned. i was thinking of him as coming off the bench more (depending on how wright fares, and DD develops…and what becomes of douby).
he wasn’t relied upon for really anything offensively last year either, but that didn’t necessarily stop him…
Bingo on the last point.
Additionally, it’s hard to say that he will “never” be asked to create anything offensively over the course of an 82 game season. When everyone else goes cold (and they will), I’d hate to have to fall back on that buttfugginugly floaty jump shot of his.
I’d take Joey Graham at the veteran minimum or what’s left from the MLE after Jack becomes a Raptor before I’d take Moon back. This coaching staff and Moon aren’t a good fit. Not sure whose fault that is. Joey’s a slightly better rebounder statistically than Moon. Neither of them can play SG so I’m with Chisholm that the job is Wright’s to lose with DD coming off the bench to score. If Joey were to come back on the understanding he’s the guy who goes in to defend and rebound when that’s getting away from this team he could be a good fit. Wonder if he’ll get an offer more than what the Raps have left on the MLE.
no way Moon comes back with Bosh wearing a Raptors jersey. I was also wondering what everyone’s been smoking today, cause send some over here!
seriously 3-4 mil??? lol
A few more notes:
Basically, adding Nesterovic and Jack creates a great 9-man rotation with very few questions about roles (the only one being the way the minutes are distributed at the 2 and backup 3; still, that’s only about 60 minutes of PT between 3 players). The other players (the scrubs) know that they are garbage-time guys. The only other question might be lack of depth up front, because if someone gets hurt, O’Bryant gets pushed into the rotation. If this happens, the Raptors are screwed (O’Bryant is essentially Bargnani on the boards and Evans on offense), so I’ve added Pops as a backup (or a similar athletic big who will play for the minimum, but isn’t as useless as POB).
Also, I’m just looking at giving Jack only 24 minutes, that seems low, especially if he starts over Wright at the 2. Jack could end up playing 30 (he played over 30 mpg last year with the Pacers), with Wright and/or DeRozan playing less. I know we all have high hopes for DeRozan, but Wright was a part-time starter on a playoff team, and late-lottery picks (and this year’s draft class wasn’t very good) usually don’t get 20 minutes straight away. I’d think DeRozan will work his way up to 20 by the end of the year, but his average will probably be more like 14-15.
So, a revised depth chart:
1 Calderon (32), Jack (30), Ukic (5), Douby (5), Banks
2 Wright (20), Jack, DeRozan, Douby, Turkoglu, George
3 Turkoglu (36), DeRozan, Wright, George
4 Bosh (36), Evans (20), Nesterovic, Mensah-Bonsu, O’Bryant
5 Bargnani (32), Nesterovic, Evans, Mensah-Bonsu, O’Bryant
I’d also like to add that the rotation listed above is neatly divided into tiers:
Big Minutes:
Calderon, Turkoglu, Bosh, Bargnani
Solid Rotation Guys:
Jack, Wright, DeRozan, Evans, (Nesterovic)
Scrubs:
Ukic, Douby, (Mensah-Bonsu)
Inactive:
Banks, George, O’Bryant
—
In sum, let’s just forget Delfino. We don’t need him. QED
Great post JJ. I like the “other” JJ at the two a fair bit as well – Indy’s best offensive lineups was when both Jack and TJ were both on the floor, so it should work here as well.
This piece makes a strong case for both Rasho and Pops – rebounding became an issue with the Turk trade (i.e. Marion departure) and I see the issue with depth – worth going beyond just Rasho.
…and Moon. I forgot why I was even writing all of that. See how useless he is?
1) I wouldn’t give him a contract but if I did it would be 1yr/min salary
2) Hell no, not a chance!
3) See above
First time write in. My recollection of Jemairo is the hops came out when he was in the clear. We need boards and box outs and it would be nice to have that in an athletic package. The good work with others contributing to this site shows we don’t have much coin left.
Rasho was a great influence and worker before being traded to the Pacers. Like to have him back. I thought Pops showed great hustle but his hand injury effected his grip so offence when down the tubes at the end of the season. I believe he played when he should have been sitting. We saw with Jose how not being 100% can empact performance even when the heart desire is there.
Great posts!
If anyone thinks signing Jumpshootio Moon is remotely doable please refer to the CBA document under “RESTRICTED FREE AGENT”. Ditto goes for Big Baby Davis, Kleiza, etc.
http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2009/ = reality.
The Raptors could acquire Moon via a sign & trade with Miami, much like they did with the Magic for Hedo.
I think asking BC for more sign-and-trades like Hedo is like asking him to eat rocks and shit lightning bolts…
BC didn’t do the Hedo s&t, Fruitman did…so BC is due.
In any event, just proves your “reality” theory above incorrect.
Figuring out how the numbers work on a trade and actually get it done are two very diffent things…Colangelo made the deal.
By himself?
Otis Smith made the deal after Cuban didn’t let it die, working off of Fruitman’s idea. Without Otis, it never would have happened. BC was, at best, the third wheel in this process.
What would we give them back? Banks? C’mon…
draft picks…Patrick O….a s&t Delfino…..
Oh God, no. You only need to S&T Moon if you want to give him a higher paycheck than what you can currently extend, so you’re crazy if you want to trade draft picks *and* pay Moon more than the minimum.
you also s&t to a team that doesn’t have enough room to sign a FA.
Last summer, the New York Knicks signed Chris Duhon to a two year $12 million contract.
For the Knicks, which was a better contract — Chris Duhon for $12 million over two years? Or, Chris Duhon for $12 million over three years?
The answer is the two year year contract. It made better financial sense for the Knicks to overpay Chris Duhon for two years, than to have him at a more reasonable contract over three years … because that third year would have sliced $4 million off their cap space for the summer of 2010, which would have hurt them. The value of having their cap space that summer outweighed the cost of overpaying Duhon in the short term.
How does this relate to the Raptors?
(1) If the Raptors spend their MLE, and re-sign Delfino to a reasonable contract (say $3-4 million), then they’ll be up near the luxury tax threshold both this season and next season. This means it will be very difficult for the Raptors to sign any moderately expensive talent next summer, and they’ll pretty much be tied to minimum contract players. In other words, the squad the Raptors have this coming season is pretty much going to be the squad they have for the next two years.
(2) The Raptors got their MLE back late in the game. The best free agents generally go off the board in the first two weeks, and this free agent class wasn’t strong to begin with. By the time the trade went down, many of the best talent was already off the board … and frankly, in terms of players the Raptors can get with their MLE, there isn’t a lot of talent left on the table. The Raptors stand a very good chance at being able to acquire a better player for their MLE next summer.
I’d much the Raptors have their MLE to spend next summer rather than tying themselves down to an inferior player this summer. This is how a one year MLE contract can help the Raptors now, and preserve their options next summer.
(3) For wings like Jamario Moon and the MLE, there’s also a third variable and that’s Demar DeRozan.
How DeRozan develops over the next 12 months could have a huge effect on what type of player you’d like to see in Toronto in 2010/11. For example, I really like how Jamario Moon currently fits into the Raptors lineup, but if DeRozan takes over the starting spot and is both an above average defender + rebounder and a good scorer … well then, my interest in a Jamario Moon type player falls considerably.
——————————————————-
The less-happy possibility …
(3) Currently the only contracts on the books for 2011 are Andrea Bargnani, Jose Calderon, Hedo Turkoglu (and Demar DeRozan). This is the Raptors fail-safe, because if things don’t work out as well as we all hope the do, then they can quickly retool by moving one or two of these contracts and getting far enough the cap to make a splash in free agency.
Adding contracts which stretch past the two year mark — If Indy don’t match Jarrett Jack’s offer sheet, his contract is added. And if BC signs Delfino to a 3 year or more deal, then his contract would be added to — are unnecessary obstacles to 2011. If both those guys on the books, they’re adding $8-9 million in payroll, which will make it very difficult for the Raptors to get below the cap … which in turn will likely create a long rebuilding process if things fail.
————————————————————-
There are benefits here for Toronto by offering more money for one year, or two year, contracts to free agents. It’s worth overpaying some players for shorter term deals because it can provide more benefits in the long term for the Raptors.
This obviously is a fairly general statement and there are of course exceptions … for example, if you’re getting a very good talent on a bargain contract, you absolutely sign him to the longer term deal.
I just feel that, after reading through the comments, that more weight should be given to the advantages of the shorter term contracts.
1. I would not giv him a contract but if team X did it shuld be for the minimun which I believe he is a 3rd string SF.
2. pfffffffff starter???? we talikin about staring???
3. As a 3rd string SF at very best for the min and 1 yaar but not this year… we are not that desperate.
Why would I sign someone who merely has the hops? What else can he do? Yea, ok, a couple of rebounds and steals. That’s great. Settles for jumpers. Can’t even defend that well.
Contract? $500,000 maximum.
Have I drifted into some alternative universe Raptors Republic? Moon? Are you f*cking serious? And posters actually considering taking him back? After Bryan once again bent another GM over the barrel and Bruno’ed them into taking Moon? The answer to all three questions – NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Honestly, did all of the posters get together just to f*ck with my mind so I won’t be able to concentrate tonight on marinating my meat (literally, that’s not a euphemism, I’m having a BBQ)? But now I may be too upset.
No more Moon! No more Moon! No more Moon! Say it with me people.
Seriously, he has the lowest basketball IQ I have ever seen in a pro player. Plus, as I witnessed last year, every game I attend he’s smiling and laughing with the other team while they school him. I focused on him way too much because I felt like slapping him.
Possibly my most hated Raptor. Ever.
1. $0. You kiddin’ me? The guy’s the shits.
2. No. Derozan is better. So am I.
3. No. He is possibly the worst athlete in pro sports. Smitch played him to prove some bizarre point to Morris Peterson. Another checkmate move, Sam.
Since the discussion is fairly one-sided, I wanted to add a few points on the other side.
Does he settle for too many jumpers (esp early in the shot clock)? Absolutely.
But is a True Shooting Percentage of 57% pretty damn good? [Bosh=57%, DWade=57%, Bargs=56%, Bryan 56%, Turk=54%, Beasley=53%]. **Moon was 15th in the league for SF – thus better than half of the starters.** Doesn’t seem like DEEP bench guy that many suggest – at least as far as his offense goes.
Moon was also 5th for SFs for lowest turnover % and 7th for SF in defensive rebounds IN THE LEAGUE.
Moon is an above average defender (and I concede this is HIGHLY debatable) at his position. Hence why he played so many minutes for Miami, the 5th best team in the East?
He’s 25th IN THE LEAGUE in steals per 48 min.
Listen, I went to a lot of games – and I saw the same thing most here did – we would all cringe when he launched an open look with 14 seconds on the clock.
But IF (and I may the caveat earlier) he understands his role (and I’m sure Spoelstra and Riley re-inforced it last year) under Jay for training camp and a full season, I think he’s worth a heck of a lot more than Gabe Priutt (824k per year) Lindsey Hunter (age 55, 825k), DJ Mgenda (960k) etc.
Look at the players that bring 24 min a game to a top half team and produces these numbers.
I do concede that I may have overestimated his value earlier, but Jamario Moon can be an effective role player – certainly worth more than the million or so Miami entered under the QO. And yes he’d be more in the 9th or 10th spot – and we would pay him as such. I do like the case for Pops instead though – we are soft and JJ (poster above) makes an excellent case for the lineup he proposed.
I’m ready – but throw blunt instruments only please.
Cheers, Tom
1. $2M, short term deal.
2. DeRozan should have to win his spot. Stil, from what I saw of DeRozan in summer league, he’s nowhere near ready to play defence with a game on the line. If Moon can prove that he’s better than Wright, then have him guard the guys that Hedo should not be guarding 1-on-1/give Hedo more of a breather late in games on D.
3. Yes. In a limited role Moon would be very, very effective. He’s a good defender and rebounder. The problem last year was that we HAD to play him…. B/c he’s a good rebounder he’s address a weakness that we have. Not all the rebounds that he got here just fell into his hands off a bounce.
in all honestythis could be a half decent idea,Jamario can rebounds and defend pretty well. With the raptors new starting line up he would even get touches on the ball anyway. also keep in mind that he still hasn’t been in the nba that long.
he wouldnt even get touches* sorry for the typos i am really tired ahah
1) 1.3-1.5 mil a year
2) Start the rook 60-70% while goofy smiling Moon 30-40%
3) His jay wasn’t that bad, it was decent. But.. Hope he doesn’t take as many..
Don’t understand why’d you’d want him back though.
why you’d*
Tom L. Good post. Well argued. I still say no to Moon. But, I’m not going to counter your well supported facts with any facts other than – he sucks. More concretely, I think there are better options out there. And, a lot of what you propose are based on some big ifs, mostly that he’ll understand his role and stick to it. I’m not convinced. I think what kept him out of the bigs for so long, and what will drive him out are a lack of smarts – basketball related – and an inability and/or unwillingness to understand his role. He’s a coach killer – as much as Smith gets maligned he did the best he could with this block head, and still couldn’t control him. I don’t think Riley (although he’s a GM) has as much patience for that type of player.
I am very likely underestimating the potential impact of Antoine Wright. We desperately need a strong defender of the opposing team’s 2 guard (and potentially 3 as well, depending on matchups). I would like to see a good defender as a complement to our four starting scorers.
Jamario may not be as go as fit here (See JJ’s post – he/she makes a strong argument), however I believe many fans underestimate his impact (the burned in memories of taking an ill advised shot or biting on a fake versus his rebounding, getting out on the wing for easy buckets and making a few key steals on D). A team will find 1.5 to 2.0M for him and will be getting good value.
1. Veteran Minimum
2. No, i’d rather play wright there then moon.
3. WAtching him jack up shots early in the shot clock has already slashed 2 years off my life i couldnt deal with it.
Looks like Moon signed an offer sheet with Cleveland. Potentially for $3.2 million.