Summer league is as painful to write about as it is to watch but something quick needs to be said about it: DeRozan is good, Ukic is not, Douby is a ball-hog, O’Bryant is soft and Smush is desperate. While Douby was going one-on-one every chance he got hoping that the Raptors would see the scorer in him, DeRozan played a comfortable game safe in the knowledge that he’s got a roster spot sown up. He displayed a fundamentally sound jumper and some surprisingly adept dead-dribble moves against Piston defenders that, if not talented, were certainly giving 100%.
In a game dominated by guard possession Douby was the primary beneficiary as he got to the rim as he saw fit and constantly finished against a late defense. Douby’s point production was high but there wasn’t a semblance of team-play in his game; don’t think the Raptors brass doesn’t know that 80% of the moves he was pulling today weren’t going to fly in the NBA. Ukic must know about the Jarrett Jack offer-sheet because he’s playing like he’s already conceded the backup PG position. I wish I could say he had tunnel-vision because that would imply he got to the rim; he showed nothing but a horrible tendency to leave his feet to pass the ball and take jumpers that even Ray Allen would think twice about. Smush Parker’s the other pervert in this sick ménage à trois and he didn’t even show up except to turn the ball over a couple times which was a little surprising given the touch he showed in the first game. I suppose Douby’s hogging has more than one victim and Parker was one of them.
Patrick O’Bryant might’ve had 10 rebounds but he gave up at least 7 offensive rebounds on his watch. We even tried to give him the ball in the post a few times but the guy’s a little too feathery and soft to assert himself and that’s probably why he had 5 turnovers – the man just doesn’t seem confident in his ability. He prefers launching it from 19 feet than making an impression in the paint which is a very bad thing for a 7-footer, unless you’re Bargnani. I’m telling you, Patrick isn’t looking good. Brent Petway has been my favorite “who the hell is this guy” player so far, he’s a power forward in a small forward’ body and tries to take it strong every chance he gets, he’s got a soft outside jumper and is as athletic as anyone on the floor. On talent alone I’d put him ahead of O’Bryant at this point for a roster spot but as they say, an NBA roster always has room for a 7-footer.
In summary, it’s only two summer league games but DeRozan’s shown that he’s ready to compete for a starting job. For a Pistons perspective on the game check out this report, it’s all about Austin Daye. Here’s the box score.
On to Jarret Jack. Obviously Colangelo still views Ukic, Banks, Douby and Smush as third string material and feels that Calderon should not be stretched, it’s hard to disagree with him based on what we’ve seen so far this summer and given the durability issues of Calderon. Jarret Jack can no doubt satisfy the defensive needs we have at point-guard, however at 6′ 3″ he’s not a solution to the lack of offensive punch at the SG spot. Sure, he played 48% of his minutes at SG last year but that’s only because T.J Ford can only play the PG, he’s ideally suited as a backup PG and although he has a bit of tweener in him you can’t ask him to defend the SG for long stretches, he’ll get exploited just like Juan Dixon used to. I highly doubt he will be our last move of the summer since Colangelo will not settle for the SG depth of rookie DeMar DeRozan and Antoine Wright. This signing does fix the PG issues and means Roko, Douby, Smush and Banks can fight for one third string PG spot.
Will Indiana match? It depends entirely on whether they’ll be flirting with the luxury tax or not. With the league cap and tax level set to decrease in 2010-11, Bird has to think hard about this one, especially after signing Dahntay Jones. The Pacers highly value Jack and if this were a one or two year offer-sheet there would be no hesitation on their part but a four-year back-loaded deal might be the only reason the Pacers are forced to pass. The Pacers current payroll is $66.05M and they’ve got $64.61M committed in 2010-11, the current tax-level is $69.92M which leaves them with $3.87M before they hit the tax. From the Raptors perspective, signing anybody to a 4-year deal is risky unless the salary is reasonable. Jack made $2.2M last year and has a qualifying offer of $2.9M, if you factor in a 20% raise on that it’ll take him to around $3.5M which is still a very reasonable contract for a 20-25 minute utility player. Basically, if the Raptors offer exceeds $3.87M which it apparently does there is no way the Pacers will match, if it doesn’t, then the Pacers will have to weigh in future flexibility while accounting for a tax level drop. Mathematically speaking, the rumoured 5M/yr offer seems too high for what would be needed to lock up Jack and Colangelo appears to have overpaid for a player yet again, but I’m not going to complain since it is a sound basketball move. The Raptors have $61.2M and $57.9M committed for the next two years, to view up-to-date salaries check our salary page.
The other shoe to drop in a Jack deal might be of Linas Kleiza who the Raptors are looking at to address perimeter shooting. At 6′ 8″ he brings size at the wing position and could give us a respectable wing lineup alongside Turkoglu, DeRozan, and Wright (Delfino injury concern). If we sign Kleiza by structuring his contract to be light in the first year and stay under the tax, we could offload Banks’ expiring next summer to even things out and quite possibly return with the same roster. If we can pull this trick off we’ll be a solid two-deep at four out of five positions:
C: Bargnani
PF: Bosh, Evans
SG: DeRozan, Kleiza/Delfino
SF: Turkoglu, Wright
PG: Calderon, Jack
If only we can manage to get our hands on one of Rasho or someone like Big Baby we’d be set. With both our MLE and LLE valued at $5.6M and $1.67M available, it is entirely possible that we can address these issues although it would involve some sort of sign-and-trade to send salaries the other way. And as Colangelo said in his interview with the Rick Kamla, player agents are literally hounding him for that cash. If we sign Jack to the reported 4-year back-loaded $20M deal we could have exactly $5M to offer Delfino or Kleiza before we touch the tax level, that would almost make it impossible for us to not cross the tax level if we sign Chris Bosh by giving him a raise. I suppose we can worry about that when/if he’s ready to sign.
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98 Raps
Arsenalist, you are burning the midnight oil sizing up the Jarret Jack offer-sheet and where it is headed from a Raptors perspective, and it is most appreciated.
If you are Chris Bosh, what more can you really ask for. You are likely gonna have your College buddy on your team, your starting 5 is set for years, and has a fine nucleus, and you can get the most coin as well. If he was smart, he would sign now, and not risk a serious injury. Why wait for the season to develop and see how the team does. If he can’t see that this is not a 33 win team anymore then there is no help for him. At worst, we will make the playoffs in a lower seed with a big upside to come in the next few years, and at best even compete for home court in the East, at least the #4 slot.
Worst case scenario and we stink, and even if we stink for years to come, he can always quietly ask for a trade. I just do not get why he would not jump NOW at a max contract, which Bryan has shown he will formally present once the roster is set. My own feelings are that I want Bosh, but not at max $, but that has already been determined by Bryan. I just hope that MLSE will allow us to pay some luxury tax if we need to in order to make a serious push for a championship, and not just be a perennial playoff participant.
Every time I remember seeing Jack, I remember having one impression: this guy is a raptor killer. It’s nice to have at least three new raptor killers on our team rather than the one we’re playing against (Evans, Turkey, Jack).
Jack plays defense. This is new to you raptor fans so it might take you a while to understand the value proposition.
5 mill and 4 years is too much, but whatever. The guy is young, productive, and a solid defender. At 4 years we’d all be happy so what’s the difference? Now Jack is happy, his agent’s happy, and Ukic is not. Really, the perfect scenario. Jack and his agent being happy means he wants to be here. Since he’s Bosh’s buddy, that could help in big ways.
My point is, Brian you’re dead right here: Bosh should sign the extension now for his own sake. Colangelo has pulled off one of those once in a lifetime team turnarounds in one fell swoop. Are the raps ready to contend for the championship right now? No. But how many teams are? 3? All you can ask is for a competitive bunch on the floor. With these moves (Jack included), BC has done it.
What’s Bosh’s problem anyway? Worst case for him is he signs, doesn’t like the situation 18 months from now and pulls a VC until he gets traded.
Question?
How would we be able to sign Kleiza and Delfino. If we are offering Delfino $5 million to put us at the tax, where would the Kleiza money come from?
Also, what is the status on Pops?
If we sign Jack and Delfino and that uses all our money, then we obviously can’t get Rasho and Kleiza which leaves us with a lineup of
Bargnani/Maybe Pops/POB
Bosh/Evans
Turk/Derozan
Delfino/Wright
Calderon/Jack
A second unit of Pops, Evans, Derozan, Wright, and Jack would seem to be alright defensively, but where would the scoring come from?
your right…we need to replace Hump at center
Doug Smith doesn’t think Pops is coming back. Every time I post a link, it gets deleted so… check out the star.
He brings up a good question, and I’m paraphrasing: ‘If the Raptors valued Pops, don’t you think he would be on the summer league roster?’
Doug Smith also thought that the Marion deal was only to help out an old friend….
It turned out favourably because Otis Smith decided to join in on the S&T,
orelse the Marion deal would have indeed been to help out an old friend
or because he didn’t have all the information and jumped to a conclusion….
In fairness, it’s hard to blame Smith for going with the Orlando GM’s public statements that he had no intention of participating in a sign and trade. Apparently that changed somewhere along the way…but it certainly didn’t seem probable as recent as a 12 hours before the deal went down.
If there’s one thing you can’t accuse Doug Smith of, it’s jumping to conclusions without requisite information. He’s the opposite of a rumour-monger, the anti-Vescey.
jack??? (no exclamation points to go along with the question).
he’s just so…so….he’s just so average.
we know its far from sexy…but maybe its just what we need…i will personally have to sit with this one for awhile….i mean, roko is the worst, and i have most certainly felt that a back up pg should have been near the top of our list…i just pictured it being someone who could catch fire at any given time…or shut down opposing pgs…or take command whenever theyre on the floor.
i picture jack just drifting through the game until you see his box score and its got moderately decent numbers.
maybe thats what we need? someone to not screw up tooo bad?
jack is suppose to be an good “intangibles” guy. Leader in the locker-room (parker replacement), hard worker. I think he’ll be great for the 20=25 minutes a game. AND he DRIVES THE BALL TO THE HOOP!
i like this deal.
the knock on jarrett jack is that he’s that shoot first pg (think mike james) who shoots those “noooo— yessss!!” shots. except he’s a MUCH better defender than mike james and is a bonified spark off the bench. not only will he not screw up “too bad”, he’s a starting point guard on some teams, easily. and he’s a playmaker off the bench, not to mention a better perimeter defender than calderon.
he’ll be a good, solid back-up and I believe BC offered him JUST enough that Pacers cannot and will not match it.
I’ve been a big fan of JJ for a long time. Maybe you should watch every game from last year and realize why we need a guy like him.
I think Banks will get bought out. I seriously don’t see him playing another minute for the Raptors or any other team in the NBA for that matter. He sealed his fate after refusing to play summer league, I’ll bet Colangelo’s high collar on it.
There’s no way Banks is bought out, because it provides no cap relief. If BC can’t get him dealt this year, he will next year when he’s an expiring contract.
It’s too bad there’s no good financial reason to buy him out, since you hope he’s not going to be a chemistry killer sulking around on the bench. However, I guess if your 4th string PG (if we get JJ) mopes, he’s probably easily ignored.
I’m worried about flexibility in the future. If one of the players we’ve signed to a long contract goes down and has a career threatening injury, we could be fucked.
Other than that, I think its brilliant. Word is in Indiana, they like Jack a lot more than they like TJ, and if you think about how a progressed Jose Calderon can play with a starting worthy talent in Jarret jack (who isn’t a douche like TJ and demands to start), than we could yet again have one of the strongest backcourts in the nba next year. Combine that with the other acquisitions and we should make the second round, no problem.
If they sign jack, pick up Rasho (because POB is turrible), than sign either Klieza (meh in my opinion), or Pops.. we could be competing for the 4th spot in the East.
and if Derozan by mid season is playing like the stud I think he is.. well, this team could be scary good.
I’m not a fan of this move. It’s way too much for Jack. And we don’t need him. I had wanted the Raps to draft him years ago but I don’t like the move now. He’s not that good of a pro and certainly not worth 5 mil for multiple years. I don’t know what BC is thinking with this move.
oh contraire mon frere,
I think we do need him. Calderon is liable to go down this season for several games, if not games in double figures. Ukic is third string material. We will be over paying for Jack, but if he has a year like he did this last past, we could have a point guard tandem that could be a stable of this franchise long into the future.
I think its risky, considering the cap, but ultimately I think this makes us a much better team
Jarred Jack can be a good bench player not 6th man of the year but a solid backup. Maybe its a million and half too much but it needs to be because Larry will match.
Our PG postion used to be a strength (ford/Jose) last year it was one of the worst in the league. 5 million year to solve it for years to come on a good player like Jack is a good move considering its our BIGGEST weakness right now. Not to mention Jack can play some minutes at the 2 as well. Therfore having Drozan/Wright/Jack at the 2 becomes an upgrade at that postion as well. Even know its 5 million it stregthens 2 spots.
Good move!!!!
We could still get Delfino as well.
GO RAPS
OK I was a little drunk when I first posted…haha. I still don’t love the move for the years and the money.
BUT:
Calderon Jack
Wright DeRozan
Turk Delfino
Bosh Evans
Bargs Rasho
Would be a pretty decent team.
Agreed. My only concern is that Jack isn’t really the type to come in and catch fire or make plays, which I think is the best contrast to Jose’s style. Jack’s a good player but similar to Jose offensively insofar as generally risk-averse, deferential type of player. He is fairly versatile and a very good defender however.
Can anybody confirm that I’m wrong?
Jarrett Jack is actually known to be streaky. He can often be a little loose in terms of shooting the ball when he should be distributing (which does contrast Calderon) but we won’t have to worry about Jack catching fire….. he’s more of a streaky but composed scorer which will be great coming off the bench, ESPECIALLY if the starting 5 get off to a slow start.
i just hope that with so many players coming in (again), they can get their shit right quickly….
I like JJ but at 20mil, it is too much. I would offer him about 3-4 million a yr which is more than double his last salary, but the problem with that is that indy would match. I think this is taking too much of the money for a backup point who will play 10-15 minutes a game because he will be sharing minutes with calderon, derozan and delfino (which looks like we’ll sign). I think BC needs to asses whether ukic will be good or let him go abroad to get more playing time with decent competition to up his game, while somehow still retain his rights. Banks is just a waste of sperm.
Jack plays 20-30 minutes a game for us. It forces Jose to play better of Jack may take more then a backup role it may be come more of a platoon. They can also play small and have Jose/Jack and either Drozan or Hedo at the 3. Lots of options but Jack plays more then 10-15 minutes a game I promise you that…..
Jack is that good ask Larry Bird and TJ ford. He started at the end of the year for Indy at PG with Ford healthy.
They also have the ability to go nice and small with Jose/Jack/DD/Turk/Bosh or something similar. They have a very versatile roster now (if this signing goes through), especially if they add Delfino. I think Triano is creative enough to make some interesting things happen
it doesn’t matter what the raps offer to jack, the offer sheet has to be ‘poison’ enough for the pacers not to want to match, which means it’s going to be a little over-valued. like what the blazers did with milsap – if you want a guy, then you have to make the team you’re trying to pry him from REALLY want him. worst case – indy matches, and it ends up putting them in a tough financial situation. jack is proven, he can play at this level, and if what they (the raps) want him for is a) insurance in case jose gets injured, b) solid back-up PG play, c) decent D at the 1, d) spot-up duties at the 2 – then while they may end up overpaying, it’s probably worthwhile.
I think BC will find a way to turn Banks into Jack and we will soon be singing his praises again.
Now im my oppion it seems the team is leaning more to the Kleiza option than Delfino; by the way some articles are written it seems they are suggesting that Keliza is high on the Raptors list and that Delfino is just “an option as well”.
please…klieza=light years above delfina.
That is now impossible, unless we get Kleiza via a sign&trade with Denver. If we give Jack $5M using our MLE, we essentially can’t sign any more free agents, aside from using the $2M bi-annul exception, which will likely be used to sign Nesterovic. We’ll be forced to resign Delfino, using his ‘bird rights’.
hmm, perhaps Khandor’s analysis of the MLSE’s true intentions actually has some legitimacy about it. For those of you who havent read Khandors last post (which I am going to assume is the vast majority) he quoted BRyan Colangelo on his reluctance to go into the MLSE or even to use the full 12 million dollars that they had at their disposal for fear of crippling the team in the future.
This is important, because with this much money being offered to Jack, and the LLE most likely going to a back up center (Rasho), the only free agents that we can sign are our own. This is of course barring some work of genius that somehow nets us Klieza via sign and trade.
So naturally we will have to sign Delfino, right?
I think, and this is just a random thought at 4:24 am, when I know I should be sleeping, so try not to tear me a new one too hard, that that is a wrong guess.
If you look at the two guard position we are pretty well off. Chisholm’s article on Wright’s ability to play ball was a good read and really solidified for me that having derozan and wright is enough depth at shooting guard. Why invest in Delfino, especially if we are bringing in Jack?
Maybe, instead, we’ll sign another free agent of ours. We are now lacking depth at the SF spot above all else, and maybe we use Graham’s bird rights and pick him up?
or maybe I am just crazy,
let me know.
You’re crazy. Graham will not be back – I’m not even sure he DESERVES to be in the league. If he makes it, it’ll be for the minimum somewhere.
We all know MLSE does not want to go into the tax we did not need Khandor to tell us that….However we are not there yet so calm down…
I wonder what team looks better
Our team of: ( where we look like where headed)
Jose
Derozan
Hedo
Bosh
Ab7
Jack
Delfino or Klieza
Wright
Evans
Rasho
Or Khandors team of: (What he suggested we look like prior to draft)
Jose
Nande de cola (I know I butchered his name)
Derrick Brown
Marion
Bosh
Parker
Hump
Andrea
Ukic
FA
FA
FA
He actually said his team maybe able to compete for a top 4 seed…..
LOL I could not even make this stuff up if I tried.
Cleasrly our team is on the right track marching up to the east. Clearly team B would be marching down to a lauging stock.
haha it was late at night and I apologize for ranting.
I couldn’t care less about Khandor’s opinions.
Dan Henderson and Jarret Jack FTW
My thoughts are summed up by this sentence in the post
“Mathematically speaking, the rumoured 5M/yr offer seems too high for what would be needed to lock up Jack and Colangelo appears to have overpaid for a player yet again, but I’m not going to complain since it is a sound basketball move.”
Ya ,but you are !!!
I would give up Jack and Kleiza anyday for Pops and Delfino. I’m gunna be pissed if Pops doesn’t come back next year in a raptors uniform.
?
Jack is a good combo guard, a fav of BC’s, but $5 mil has to come from the MLE of $5.9, killing Kleiza, or any other big ticket. A lot of money for a back-up PG/SG as Indy has a qualifying offer to Jack of $2.9mil, but will give 48 mins of quality PG play, and also some scoring depth at SG.
Delfino can still be signed as Raps hold his bird rights even though he is now a RFA. That leaves only the BAE of $1.9 for Nesterovic, or another big, as that now has to be a priority. Pops is still a 5th big in any Raps team, and they already have one in O’Bryant.
If Rasho’s signed to the vet’s minimum, it has no impact on the cap or exemptions, right? Hopefully with his well-documented love of the city he is willing to sign such a deal. As a complete guess the minimum for a vet of his service is maybe $1.5M. Don’t know how much more he’ll get elsewhere, including Europe.
I have mixed feelings about this signing.
PROS:
1. Jack would give the Raps one of the best backup PG in the league, solidifying the 2nd unit (the same way Calderon did 2 seasons ago while Ford was starting)
2. takes pressure of Calderon to play huge minutes, ensuring we have him playing at the top of his game for the entire season
3. Jack was Bosh’s roommate in college and signing him, in addition to the other moves already made that show a long-term commitment to winning, could be enough to keep Bosh in a Raps uniform long-term
CONS:
1. $5M is at least $1M too much for Jack, especially when he’s only going to be a backup PG
2. finding a good backup PG wasn’t as critical to the Raps (IMO) as finding another good backup wing (SF/SG – ie: Kleiza)
NEXT STEPS:
1. resign Delfino
2. sign Nesterovic
3. look to trade at least 2 of Ukic/Douby/O’Bryant/George/Banks, ideally for another wing and/or draft picks OR buy-out George (to open a roster spot)
4. resign Mensah-Bonsu if another roster spot opens-up
TEAM AFTER 1 & 2 (from above)
C: Bargnani, Nesterovic, O’Bryant
PF: Bosh, Evans
SF: Turkoglu, DeRozan, George
SG: Wright, Delfino, Douby
PG: Calderon, Jack, Ukic, Banks
I think I will end up liking the Jack signing, pending future moves from BC. After what he did with that 4-team trade, I have faith in him!
I think had we not taken Turko, this would have been a great move by BC. I know Jose’s been the great dedicated professional he is to get the rest and put in the work he needs this summer instead of playing with Spain, which he has NEVER rejected previously.
However, even with regained conditioning, his defense is still average to mediocre. Jack can enforce a little bit more toughness we need, and maybe even help Calderon with a thing or two.
The thing that would have made the most sense in this deal, is that by over-paying him about a 1.3M (realistically the premium of taking a player from Larry Bird and asking him to play in Canada), you get a guy who can play big minutes if Calderon goes down again.
Unfortunately, if Calderon stays healthy, Turko’s going to need some time playing point forward like he did in Orlando to keep him effective and in the game, you’re going to have a very small role for Jack who then really doesn’t offer much when you can get the big 5 you need in Rasho, or the wing player you need in Kleiza.
He’s an RFA. You can’t get him for that money. That would be a pointless lowball offer.
How quick we are to shit on a guy ,who up to a couple days ago were lining up to kiss his ass…let the man do his job,is Banks going to be landing somewhere… bought out? is Rocko on his way out…why isn’t marshmellow POB on his way?.
Take a deep breath boys and girls,sit back and enjoy the ride,it will be bumpy at times,but as I see it,I’m already light years ahead of last year.
Now,everybody get some sleep !!!
Watching some of yesterday’s summer league game on-line really was a bit ‘painful’ (that word fit) but it was informative enough to be almost worth watching the somewhat less-than-high-def feed, not to mention the time on a nice Saturday afternoon when I probably should’ve been doing something productive or at least, fun.
It was only one summer league game, but it’s so true about DeRozan’s poise. For such a young rook, his calm focus was kind of striking. Where the hell did he learn that? Or maybe the question should be, is that something that can even be taught? I don’t know, but I’m sure looking forward to watching him develop over the next while.
A painful aspect for me (aside from PoB – a seven foot lightweight who doesn’t seem to care all that much is not a pretty thing to see on a bb court) was seeing that Ukic looked like he did NOTHING over the summer to get better. I had serious hopes that he had another level that he was going to close in on between then and now but it just looked to me like he didn’t try to get there at all over these last months. Maybe he just doesn’t have that next level, I don’t know. Disappointing though.
If Colangelo is thinking the same thing – and I can’t see how he wouldn’t – it’s easy to see why he made a play to get Jarret Jack. I don’t know all that much about Jack (?) other than seeing him a bit against the Raptors last year and reading about him nudging out TJ for the starting job (I remember I couldn’t help but enjoy that) and while you-tube videos are kind of bogus (anyone can look good in a hi-light package) I had a look last night, anyway. Didn’t tell me much, so I’ll just ‘trust in BC’ on it for now … but what I LOVE about Colangelo’s play is how the move sticks it to that big prick, Larry Bird (as somebody here mentioned last night, I think). Ya, I know he was great and all as a player (and he really was) but I’m holding a bit of a grudge (for no good reason that I can really articulate) over the JO thing. If Bird is fuming – and I hope he is – it looks good on him. (Take our seventeenth pick, will ya Bird? Ok. How’s it feel now, ya bastid? A bit crunched? JJ worth the tax money?) It feels like a win-win to me.
Jack is not just a backup PG he can and will play some minutes at the 2. when we play small for short spruts due to either matchups or maybe Bosh or AB7 is in foul trouble we could have lineups like this:
Jose Jose
Jack Jack
Derozan Derozan
Bosh Hedo
AB7 Evans/Bosh/Andrea
Just examples of small ball for short SPURTS….
Jack can and will play minutes with Jose on the court. He is not coming here to be a backup PG only. He is a tweener and hopefully he can have a Jason Terry impact on our team as well maybe not score as much but defend and be a very solid 6th man type.
Again is it a 1 mill to 1.5 mill too much per year most likely at this moment, but it needs to be done in order to get him here of Bird will match and it could turn out to be well worth it in 4 years.
Remember what happened when we asked Juan Dixon to be play the 2? It wasn’t pretty, but it’s all about matchups, some nights we’ll can afford to play him at the 2 (say, against an Augustin/Felton backcourt) and other nights its out of the question (e.g: Atlanta). At least we’ve sured up the PG position, still think we need to get some more size at the wing through Delfino or Kleiza.
we can still get both rasho and delfino….. for jelly beans.
i think you’re thinking of odom…
Funny; because its known that he is in love with sweets. Not that thats what he is really worth
Arsenalist to that I would say:
-Jack is a better defender then Dixon
-Jack off the bench will mostly be guarding back up 2’s as much as starting 2’s
-when playing Atlanta he would most likely be up against Crawford there combo guard off the bench
-due to his lack of size at the 2 he can be posted up by the Joe Johnsons of the wrold but he is still capable of guarding Most NBA SG’s
- Joe Dumars was small too but was a great defender of bigger guards and Jack can be as well (not as good as Dumars off course)
Juan Dixon hadn’t already proved he can defend/play the 2. Check Jack’s PER, and PER against on 82games.com has an SG. He not only played the majority of his minutes at SG, he outscored the opponents SG when he was in at that position, which as we know in the NBA is saying something.
He didn’t fare nearly so well playing point, so comparing him to Juan Dixon is borderline ridiculous.
I’ve seen the 82games stats too and they’re encouraging, but I’ll reserve judgment on his SG defense till he plays a few games. All I’m saying is his lack of size concerns me and I don’t want to see a repeat of our guards getting posted up, in fact, the only reason I even entertained the idea of Parker returning at one point was because when he’s playing low minute and is fresh, he can be a very good defender. I don’t think we’ve replaced that aspect of Parker’s game so far this summer.
BTW, I do like the signing.
How about Wright? Good defender with good size who plays SG. He can match up against the guys who are too big for Jack.
I’m not thrilled at the signing, even though he is a good defender at the 2(taller players have trouble posting him up, as he’s wide, and strong, as well as quick) because he’s a low efficiency player, and I don’t like the style. I do like his defense, though.
I also think we’re overpaying. I’d have preferred to go the Kleiza/Powe/Delfino/Rasho route, but it isn’t terrible. It upgrades the SG depth, and gives us a legit backup point, so I am not going to complain too loudly.
Agreed…and seeing that Jack (unlike 90% of NBA players) actually earns some of his pay on the defensive end of the floor, I’m not sure that contract is so out of line. He fits so well with our team as a back up to Jose and as a SG fill in, the premium is well worth it.
that’s what people have to remember, JAck was the best option out there for a back-up PG (he’d be a starter on many teams)
is $5 a lot? yes…. BUT anything less and the Pacers would have matched it.
we cannot afford to go into the season with Ukic as our back up.
this was a good, good move. a necessary move.
That’s a lot of money for a backup PG with one good season in the NBA. In a year from now, we’ll all be talking about what a bad contract that was, and we’ll be thinking of ways to dispose of it – kinda like Humphries and Kapono. There are much cheaper options out there that will give very similar production to that of Jarret Jack. DISLIKE THIS MOVE!
I guess you didn’t see him play for Portland then. Not saying it couldn’t turn out to be an albatross, but he has done a great job for a number of years now. Beating out TJ for the starting role in Indiana was just the clincher.
agreed – Jack’s time in Portland was VERY solid. He tore up the Raps in one game coming off the bench as a primary scoring option.
If you were complaining about Hump’s contract, it was a waste of your time. $3M for a decent backup big man? Don’t see the problem with that. Agree with above (x2), Jack’s proven to be more than capable in 4 years in the NBA.
What cheaper options are you thinking of that provide the same value as Jack? He’s a fairly unique player this FA offseason, given his age/versatility/track record.
anyone who says it was “just a breakout year” or “one good year” obviously hasn’t been keeping tabs on Jarrett Jack. He was a good player in Portland and a better player in Indiana. He’s the kind of PG Toronto hasn’t had before in that he can actually play defense.
I didn’t say he was a bad player. I meant that he is just “okay” and that that amount of money for a backup on a 4-year contract is not a wise way to spend the money we have. There is a reason the Pacers aren’t going to match this offer.
yep.. its because they can’t afford to. Don’t think for a minute they wouldn’t match if they had the cash.
Esactly. If it wasn’t for the luxury tax, the Pacers would have matched it immediately. Jack was to be a huge piece of their rebuilding process and the only way we are able to get him is because BC offerred JUST enough that Larry Bird can’t match it without going over the luxury tax for next year.
He is better then O.K
And dare I say….. He may even push Jose to the Bench at some point in the next 4 years.
Great deal….
I Love JJ.
Okay, lots of debate going on between Delfino and Kleiza. Any chance we can get that question in the poll on the front page? Kleiza or Delfino? No fence sitting. I personally like Kleiza better, but that’s just me
Now, with the prospect of having Jack as another ball-handler, I go with Kleiza too. Gritty defender at SF who can score in a number of ways. Like him a lot.
I think it is a coin toss.
However I would think we land Delfino for 2 reasons:
1. I think we need more of 2/3 then a 3/4 which I think Delfino fits better.
2. I think owning his rights and Jack being signed to the MLE does not leave any cap space for Klieza. The guy is better then the league min. Unless we can sign Rasho to the Min and give Klieza the 1.7mil exception and sign all 3 I can’t Klieza joining the Raps.
Unless Denver and Toronto do some sort of sign and trade. Highly unlikely but never say never when alking about the lego master.
Long live BC….GO RAPS!!!
I’m wondering if that injury rumor about Delfino will have any effect on BC’s decision making in re-signing Delfino. Seems to me that probably does NOT want to take anymore risks on injuries (JO, Calderon). And you’re right, you should never count out the unlikely when Colangelo is in the organization.
I think people who are not agreeing with this move or think it is too much money, do not see what BC is doing and what Jack is able to do.
1) Back up point Guard: All the news from Vegas says that Roko is not ready. Just imagine if Calderon gets hurt again , Roko or Bank is going to be all we have left. Jack will solidify that spot. He has done a great job in Indiana in that position.
2) Scoring off the bench: We do not have a guy capable of scoring 12-15 point a game on our bench. Jack is the guy !!! Looking at his games in Indiana, he is easily able to score 12-15 point coming off the bench. This can be our punch from the bench the way Mavs do it with Terry or Lakers did it with Odom or San Antonio does it with Ginobili. All those guys make tone of cash and come from Bench !!!
3) Playing the SG: Although I don’t think he is very suited for this position, but if DD and Wright does not work for us, Jack is always to play limited minute in the spot.
So this is move that will essentially address 3 of the weak spots in Raptors line up. Is 5 Million too much for it ? I say no, since it is a cure for not only one pain but 3.
Again, Kudo to Brain for doing this.
1) I completely agree. This year is about taking a big step forward. Chances are that the backup PG on the Raps is going to start at least 10 games, or play big minutes in games where Calderon is banged up. Calderon is a good PG, but he is not a 36 minutes x 82 games guy. The Raps are a team that need the quality depth at PG. Believing that Roko would adequately fill this void is laughable.
2/3) I agree that it is always good to have some solid bench scoring, but I don’t expect Jack to be the type of “spark-plug” or “instant offense” that guys like JR Smith or Terry are for their teams. However, he will likely average around 12 and be able to play some solid D. For the Raps, that is much more important. I thought a well rounded 1/2 type player would help much of the Raptors problems all in one move (depth at 2, PG defense, some bench scoring, capable backup behind Calderon). Jack likely fits the bill for all, if not most of these needs.
It should also be noted that for the most part Jack has shown very good durability, which is key for the Raptors situation. He has missed very few games in his 4 year NBA carrer (under 10 I believe) and has not missed a game in the last 2 seasons.
FREE NUNYA, FAQ AND KHANDOR!!
GUYS, if we sign JJ, we do not have any method of signing Kleiza even with all the space left before the Luxury Tax,
SO FORGET ABOUT KLEIZA,
we can sign Delfino because of our bird rights on him, it will not require any exceptions
“….other than seeing him a bit against the Raptors last year and reading about him nudging out TJ for the starting job”
So, after beefing in Indy with TJ.. Jack is going to come here and play nice with Jose?
BC may be great in the think tank and putting things together on paper, but he also has a history of getting players that don’t have chemistry with each other.
Check out his early career, or even the O’Neal deal.
We need yo upgrade the roatation at the guard spot.
You cant worry if Jose and him are going to play dominos on the plane.
Jose and Jack are professionals.
Our guard rotation of:
Jose Ukic Banks
Derozan Wright Douby
HAS TO BE UPGRADED!!!!!!!!
Jack followed by Maybe Delfino would be an upgrade on a rotation and bench than needs an upgrade.
I hope Bird does not match!!!! I really think Bird might try to trade TJ within the next 7 days and match the Raps offer…And then give Jack the starting PG spot. I hope I am wrong. Maybe he can’t find a taker for TJ.
Disagree entirely. I don’t think Jack beefed with TJ, he was simply given the starters role mid-season. He also needed to sign the contract with the Raps, he wasn’t drafted with no say in where he went. Jose’s obviously the starter, Jack knows it, he’s cool with it. If he had an issue with that, he wouldn’t sign in TO.
Chemistry’s overrated. How can you know the chemistry players will have together prior to them playing on the same team? I have never heard of any character issues of any players acquired by BC except Evans, who was acquired because of his nastiness.
I can’t know this for sure but I would bet that the beef between TJ and Jack sits squarely on the smaller mans shoulders.
TJ had a beef with Mo Williams….
TJ had a beef with Jose (well not Jose himself but with the raps for starting him)….
If you connect the dots I’m sure we can find the common denominator here.
Ah Flux. Long time, man. Bird himself describes Jack as a workhorse and the consummate teammate who busts his ass no matter what his role. Quite the compliment coming from Larry Legend.
Your man-crush on TJ is well-documented but its time you learn that TJ is the problem. Not Jose Calderon. Not Jarrett Jack. Not Mo Williams. Who’s your boy TJ gonna lose his job to this year? Diener? AJ Price?
Hey Baad.
The same Bird that was kind enough to give us O’Neal?
Keep in mind that: “barring a trade, Ford was going to head into this season as the preferred starter at point guard, even if Jack was re-signed”
I’m just with FAQ on this whole thing. Colangelo is playing Emerald again, just experimenting, throwing guys around hoping it works. It’s like that guy at the office… always running around, always got piles of work on his desk, never takes breaks, just a “workhorse”; but at the end of the day gets 0 accomplished. Again, everything rests on what Triano does in camp and how these players react to each other on the court. And Everyone is just hoping the click right away and we kill the East.
We overpaid for a player, who’s clearly not the greatest of PGs, because BC is hoping his (JJ’s) friendship with Bosh convinces CB4 to stay here.
Lets already start a new pg controversy
Its been too long.
If Jack comes to the Raptors, why do we need Delfino? Sure Delfino can play the 3 a bit but he can’t play the 4. Isn’t there an awful lot of overlap between him and Jack?
We have no back up small forward. Devean George (no thank you)
Delfino could be the back up 3.
Delfino can also fill in at the 2.
Delfino maybe even has to fill in at the PG spot (incase of emergency such as injury to 2 PG’s at the same time)
Delfino on the bench playing some 2 and 3 would be a nice addition.
Remember we won 33 games last season because our guard and wing rotation was:
Jose and Ukic or WILL at PG. (both when Jose was hurt)
Parker/Kapono at the 2 spot (ouch)
Moon/Graham at the 3 spot (worst ever) then upgraded to Marion/Graham
we currently have:
Jose/Ukic/Banks
Derozan/Wright/Douby
Hedo/George
IF we went into a season like this it would not be good enough at the PG/Wing postion.
BUT if you add Jack and Delfino you now have:
Jose/Jack/Ukic/Delfino possible PG’s
Derozan/Jack/Wright/Delfino possible SG’s
Hedo/Derozan/Delfino/Wright possible SF’s
This guard rotation is much much more capable with Jack and Delfino.
More depth is needed with no respect intended to:
Ukic (still atleast a year away)
Marcus the corpse Banks
Devean George (If he plays at all this year it would be a shame for the job he is taking over 10,000 others who would do a beter job.
So clearly an upgrade is needed:
People may not think Jack and Delfino are the two best additions but:
There is no argument that they are 2 upgrades on a bench and guard rotation that desperatly need it.
So I say Yes to Delfino but have no problem with Klieza either just less likely since we own the rights to Carlos unless Jack’s offer is matched by the Pacers.
Spot on. With respect to George, I think he has value as a practice player. He strikes me as the type to know his role and be open to teaching (no real reason for this assumption). I think he could provide some veteran insight.
I don’t think the trade veto to NJ should be held against him, it was in his best financial interest to veto the trade so Dallas retained his Bird rights. They resigned him that offseason, so obviously they didn’t hold it against him.
Rebounding. Something Delfino does very well. Something this team desperately needs with Bargnani and Turkoglu playing big minutes together.
I’ve got a few questions here, hope someone can answer.
- If the pacers don’t match and jack becomes a raptor. How much money we have left until we reach the tax level? I aks this to know how we can spen in delfino in case we re sign him usin his bird rights
-Is Rasho willing to take just a vet min to play here?
-The jack’s signing makes very obvious that Douby will be no longer part of our roster when traning camp finishes (or maybe earlier) right?
If not, why would we need 5 pg?
-Besides what Doug Smith says, what’s the status of Pops and why isn’t he playing in the S L?
By the way, we need to do something with at least two of Douby Banks, POB and George. Can’t see george playing here at all.
What about including him (or wright) and POB in a Sign and Trade with Kleiza? Could the nuggets buy that?
Just a question to raptors fan in general, what do you prefer, Delfino, Kleiza or (if it’s someway possible) both?
I think I prefer Kleiza because he can back up the 3 and the 4. However, I don’t think the Raptors can sign him if Jack signs. Would Denver be interested in Delfino? George?
-The MLE used to sign Jack won’t affect the bird rights to Delfino so we can easily sign him
-I’m sure Racho would take the vet pay to play here. He’d probably be taking the same pay to play elsewhere and he said he want to come back to Toronto so I’m sure he wouldn’t mind
-They might take Douby as a backup 3rd or 4th pg or 2 guard but he won’t see much playing time if they do
-Hopefully we can unload POB, Banks, Douby and George. Nuggets probably have no interest in any of them- unless there’s a possibility of dumping contracts
-If Jack signs, there’s probably a slim to nil chance of also signing Kleiza so I’ll go with Delfino and Rasho.
I know jack’s signing won’t affect Delfino’s because we have his bird rights, what i’m saying is, considering our payroll with jack’s signing, will we be able to offer delfino a good contract without getting into the tax?
What’s the raps payroll if indiana doesn’t match?
What would you offer delfino?
For those of you who think we overpaid for Jack:
Which I thought we did a little at first, but not after doing a little checking.
I have compiled a list that may change your mind.
Jared Jack is coming here to come off the bench as a guard.
Below is a list of players and there salaries from every NBA team.
Players on this list are MOST likely going to come off the bench. I have not included BIGS in this list.
As I am just comparing Jack to other players at the PG/WING postion for this comparison:
NOTE****I HAVE TRIED NOT TO INCLUDE TOO MANY PLAYERS WHO ARE UNDER ROOKIE SCALE CONTRACTS: AS JACK IS NOT CONTROLLED TO MAKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY AND THEREFORE CAN ASK FOR WHATEVER HE THINKS HE CAN GET:
Atlanta- JCrawford 9.3 mil
Boston- Eddie House 2.8 mil (Boston is trying to upgrade this postion)
Char- Augstine 2.3 mil (under rookie scale contract will get a raise)
Cle- Gibson 4 mil, West 4 mil, Parker 3ish mil
Dal- J Terry 9 mil
G.S- Claxton 5.2 mil Magette 8.9 mil
Hou- Battier 6.8 mil
Ind- Dunlevy 9.7 mil, D jones ? (I believe 4 mil a year but not sure)
L.A Clip- Q Rich 8.7 mil, R Davis 2.4 mil
L.A Lakers- Morrison 5.2 mil, Sasha V 5.0 mil, L Walton 4.8 mil
Memphis- M Jaric 7.1 mil
Miami- D Cook 1.3 mil (rookie scale bench needs an upgrade ask Wade)
Mil- Ridnour 6.5 mil, Bowen 4.1 mil, Bell 3.6 mil
Min- No one of note…..this team needs a bench
N.J- Simmons 11.2 Mil, Alston 5.2 mil, T Hassel 4.3 mil
N.O- Posey 6 mil, A Daniels 6.6 mil, Mo-Pete 6 mil
Oak- Watson 6.6 mil, D wilkins 3.3 mil
Orl- Pietrus 5.3 mil
Phi- Kapono 6.2 mil
Pho- Barbosa 6.2 mil, Pavalovic 4.7 mil
Port- Webster 4.3 mil, Outlaw 3,6 mil
Sac- Garcia 5.8 mil
San- Ginobli 10.7 mil, Mason 3.7 mil
Tor- Banks 4.5 mil, Jack 5.0 mil
Uta- Korver 5.3, AK47 16.4 mil
Was- M Miller 9.8 mil, M james 6.4 mil, D Stevenson 3.8 mil
Having now read this list is J Jack at 5 million a year player compared to other NBA teams?????
Are we really over paying him????
I say NO!!!!
It may be a slight bargin or turn out to be a BIG bargain over the next 4 seasons and maybe more.
Great post; and 5 million now seems like a good number. Sasha V is making 5 so i dont see how Jack could make any less than him. Also he could probably get 6-7 million in an open market concidering his skills and relitively young age so now it looks like a good number.
The only reason people think its bad is probably because they havent seen Jack play before, or they are worried that now we cant sign Delfino or someone else (which we can).
Quick poll: who is the most overpaid player on that list?
I’m gonna go with Marko Jaric
I really like the signing (indiana won’t match), i wasn’t too exited the first time i heard about it, but now i like it. I think it will give roko minutes to develope but not too much and that’s a good thing. I assume Roko will play when turk’s on the bench. That’s not a crazy thing, imagine calderon being sub by jack, then demar for carlos, and when turk sits, roko will enter moving jack to the sg spot, i like that. Delfino and jack will outplay every wing tandem of any other team’s second unit.
Two more things, i think jack’s contract will start at $3.8 or so, that’s not the full midlevel, we still have 2 more millions tu spend with that exception.
The last thing, what i realy like about all this summer signings is that bc doesn’t bring controvertial players or selfish ones. When he was ask about the posibility of signing iverson he said that he won’t fit in the group they are trying to build. I realy like that, no Wafers or Barnes please. Jack was famous in Portland not only for his consistent play but also for his hardworking ethic. Every months Nate McMillan and his team awarded with the best parking spot in the training facilities to the player who works the hardest to improve is game and his condition. jack won the first two months
I would prefer we dump roko or send him back or whatever, and keep douby. I appreciate his determination to score.
I feel bad because I want roko to succeed. But he hasnt shown us anything.
I am warming up to jack being a key part of this team. And the money isnt bad at all considering how versatile he will be for our team.
Guys, Don’t give up on Wright that easily. He is what we need at shooting guard. A defensive guy who is willing to do the dirty work and does not need to take too many shots. Lets face it, with Hedo, AB, Bosh and Jose , there is not many shots left in starting line up for a scoring SG. As far as Nuggests goes, There might be a chanse with George contract and Douby’s contract there. George is at last year of his contract. But how much is good for Keilza ??!! I have seen him play and he is very streaky !!! Some guys he is great and some gays he is slow and lost on the floor. But I think he would be a upgrade on Delfino , given Delfino is hurt and all.
Just a couple points:
1) IF Jack signs, it won’t be a $5 million cap hit, it will be a $4.44 million cap hit. See salary page in article. This leaves 1.36 M of the MLE to use.
2) So maybe 1.36 M per for Rasho, LLE for Kleiza? Perhaps unrealistic.
3) Delfino’s shoulder would have to pass a physical before the Raps officially sign him. Same for any other team. So, if the shoulder is why we aren’t signing him, then a sign-and-trade is out the window.
4) As such, it’s going to have to be Delfino, unless BC can convince the Nuggets to S+T Kleiza for Banks or other fodder… unlikely to say the least.
Perhaps if the starting salary for Kleiza was $2.1M with max raises for say, 4 years (~9.5M), then a sign and trade for Devean George could happen, giving them an expiring.
Oh, and 5) Great signing of Jack! Solid backup PG we haven’t had since Jose.
With Jack in the picture, do the Raps even need Delfino anymore? SG can be filled with Wright, Jack and DD. They would be better served getting some depth at small forward. Someone like Kleiza.