It was a great trade, no doubt about that, but I don’t see nearly enough thanks being directed towards the Magic for actually allowing for this to happen. I don’t think any blog or media outlet could anticipate what happened just because nobody could see the Magic participating in the trade. They had little incentive to be part of this from the outset, Otis Smith spoke clearly a few days ago about how the Magic would not help the Raptors in the Turkoglu transaction, but a trade exception that they’re unlikely to use sealed the deal for them. Other than the Magic’s late involvement this was going to be a pretty boring deal, so although Colangelo deserves a ton of credit for his creativity in orchestrating the deal, we should first and foremost recognize Otis Smith for stepping in and helping out what can now be considered a conference rival.
Hedo Turkoglu was officially announced yesterday and here are the bullet points:
- Colangelo admitted that he had been pursuing Turkoglu for quite some time and wouldn’t let his failure to complete the deal in Phoenix repeat itself. At that time Magic GM John Weisbrod beat him to the punch.
- The idea of the trade was thought up by Steve Fruitman, Senior Director Basketball Administration. Colangelo’s first preference in signing Turkoglu was a straight signing based on cap space but soon realized it wasn’t possible.
- Colangelo things Hedo is a player that will make others better. He’s damn right there, creativity with the ball and ability to recognize options is what has been lacking the last couple years and Hedo does address that to a degree, however that doesn’t mean we still don’t need a defensive minded guard that can knock down the jumpers Marcus Banks and Roko can’t. Colangelo assessed that Hedo was making the main basketball decisions for the Magic in the playoffs and values his clutchness.
- Chris Bosh helped recruit Hedo Turkoglu by calling him up. Colangelo thinks the moves he’s made so far have made a very positive impression on Chris Bosh which he thinks will help in his eventual signing.
- As for leaving an NBA Finals team and joining a lottery one, Hedo put it straight:
It’s a situation which was made by both sides, not just one.
Nobody asked him about the Portland thingy.
- The Raptors have 12 committed contracts for next year: Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani, Hedo Turkoglu, Jose Calderon, Antoine Wright, Devean George, Quincy Douby, Reggie Evans, DeMar DeRozan, Patrick O’Bryant, Marcus Banks and Roko Ukic. Colangelo will try and sign Carlos Delfino and is officially waiting for the Anthony Parker to Cleveland deal to get done first.
- Colangelo got calls from many GMs whose clients are looking for that mid-level exception. According to him, Toronto became a very popular place to play since yesterday. Tim Chisholm looks at the possible players that we can sign using the MLE including Glen Davis, Hakim Warrick, Josh Childress and others. My number one choice would be Grant Hill. Here’s the up-to-date team salaries.
- People who ask questions like Why is Toronto so great and why did you choose this city? just need a pat on the back for living where they live. After Doug Smith asked this question, Turkoglu basically said that basketball came first, then the city.
- Here’s the full press conference on YouTube thanks to Birdman.
The Raptors also signed DeMar DeRozan to the rookie scale contract which will pay him $2,282,640 next year. Assuming Antoine Wright remains a Raptor, DeRozan’s going to be fighting him for a starting spot with Delfino likely kept in reserve to boost the bench.
What’s lost in the shuffle is the exit of Kris Humphries from the team, it’s unfortunate because he’s a type of player which every team needs and if only he had stayed healthy last year, he probably would’ve had a say in this year’s roster. He was a guy that grasped his role very well but for whatever reason refused to stick to it, his hustle and energy were second to none but Mitchell never managed to get through to him the concept of sticking to what he was good at. His recurring need to deviate from his role and morph into a wannabe scorer spelled his end in Toronto. Good luck to Hump, he will be missed. Kinda. Not really though.
So what team-need do you think needs addressing the most? Let’s quickly recap:
- Front-court Rebounding: Evans, Bosh, Bargnani. B-.
- Back-court Rebounding: Turkoglu, DeRozan, Delfino. A-.
- Ball handling: Turkoglu, Calderon. B+.
- Dribble penetration: Calderon, Turkoglu. B.
- Wing defense: DeRozan, Delfino. B-.
- Point-of-attack defense (dribble penetration): Calderon, Ukic. C+.
- Guard Scoring: DeRozan, Wright. C-
- Front-court scoring: Bosh, Bargnani. B+
Now I know I’m being generous with some of the grades but the point is that singling out some of the weak points of the team aren’t that hard. Point-of-attack defense is still weak and so is the expected production out of the shooting guard position, both these areas killed us last year and we’re one signing away from killing two birds with one stone. I already said I liked Grant Hill but a motivated Flip Murray could also do the trick although his defensive game isn’t good enough for what we need. Ideally, a James Posey or Raja Bell type player is needed.
Rebounding is also a concern, last year we missed Rasho and the space he used to take up in the middle. Rasho might not have gotten the rebound but his box-outs and man-defense were perhaps the best on the team. We were 3rd worst in defensive rebounding for most of last year until we made that meaningless run at the end. Colangelo can’t afford that to repeat as the Achilles’ heel. I’d even go as far as saying that rebounding is perhaps a more grave need than production from the off-guard position and PG defense. That’s going on the assumption that Roko’s improved his defensive mechanics to be relied upon to play smart and tough defense.
One final thought, does anyone notice how quickly Colangelo jumped off the Marion bandwagon? At the end of the season he appeared to want to sign him to an extension based on the late-season run and even went as far as offering him a contract which most of us thought was more than reasonable, if not too high. Is it Colangelo’s good luck that Marion rejected the deal and thus fell the first domino of what transpired? Whatever it is I’ll take it.
Summer league starts on Friday and we’ll try to have a live blog of the game followed by a report or two, here’s the schedule:
| Date | Opponent | Time (ET) |
| Friday, July 10 | L.A. Lakers | 8:00 p.m. |
| Saturday, July 11 | Detroit | 4:00 p.m. |
| Monday, July 13 | Portland | 8:00 p.m. |
| Wednesday, July 15 | Milwaukee | 4:00 p.m. |
| Thursday, July 16 | Phoenix | 4:00 p.m. |
If you want to watch the Las Vegas Summer League action you can do so here for about 15 bucks.
Quick site note, today we experienced some load issues on the site which made it unavailable for about half an hour or so. We’re trying to get the house in order so outages like those are minimized, sorry about the inconvenience. But for now, let’s end with Colangelo’s quote from yesterday:
Stay tuned for more changes to the roster, we got other things on the horizon…
142 Raps
As I just posted in a comment from this other thread:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/07/03/marion-lee-turkoglu-ariza-and-ron-ron/#comment-32040
—————————————
Brain Colangelo says: Jul 3, 2009 at 10:36 pm
steve fruitman and the teachers would also be great
—————————————
Brain Colangelo deserves special mention for calling out Mr. Fruitman’s man in that thread on July 3, 2009.
Credit to where credit is due.
i tells ya, he’s a genius
Arsenalist,
—————————————
re: “Other than the Magic’s late involvement this was going to be a pretty boring deal, so although Colangelo deserves a ton of credit for his creativity in cleaning up his mess, we should first and foremost thank Otis Smith for helping out what can now be considered a conference rival.”
—————————————
IMO, it would be a serious mistake to think that Otis Smith made this decision to help out the Toronto Raptors or anyone else.
The Biggest Winners in this specific transaction were the Dallas Mavericks AND the Orlando Magic.
Khandor – Agree with your first point 100%. But pls explain why Orlando were such big winners over Toronto. Zero logic in that argument.
CanuckX,
1. The Raptors were in a jam of their own creation.
2. The Mavericks and the Magic were not.
3. Stay tuned.
I’ll have more to say about this specific topic in an entry on my blog, once I get further clarification on the exact status of Anthony Parker.
Nobody in the NBA does something out of kindness.
Once again – explain. Simply. Logically. Raptors were in a jam – they smartly worked themselves out of it. We have lots of room. Great starting 5. I asked to specifically explain why the Magic did so much better than the Raptors. AP is very likely a Cav or assume so. Explain your thesis.
CanuckX,
In the interim … please be aware that I have not said anything about this trade being a poor one for the Raptors.
That wasn’t inferred. You said “The Biggest Winners in this specific transaction were the Dallas Mavericks AND the Orlando Magic.” which I disagreed with – and I said “..pls explain why Orlando were such big winners OVER Toronto.” Emphasis added. That’s what I fail to see.
CanuckX,
There were 4 teams involved in this trade. Biggest doesn’t need to refer to a wide margin of victory; that’s all.
Actually your comment did in fact use the words, “way ahead”.
i.e. “believe the Magic came out way ahead of the Raptors”
OK, I have to ask….do you even LIKE the Raptors?
More than you can possibly fathom…and the same goes for both Andrea Bargnani and Bryan Colangelo.
Well that’s good to know because from your comments you never seemed to be pleased and/or just enjoy the excitment for what whatever happening.
Well, if someone admitted openly that they didn’t like the Raptors, and then continued to constantly put them down every single day, people would stop paying attention. That person would obviously have to lie and say he loved the Raptors just like a wife-beater loves his wife, otherwise she would leave.
LOL @ Sean
LOL, thinking the same thing. I could justify the negativity when we thought we were overpaying for Turk by renouncing our FA’s, but clearly this is the best possible scenario for the offseason. What’s not to like– and more over, why complain about it? For once we have made some incredible transactions- this is not something Raptor Nation is accumsted to (LOL) so let’s embrace it and celebrate the fact that we have a solid core, and we are setting ourselves up to be in a good position to re-sign CB4.
What more could you possibly ask for from BC as a Raptor fan?
abstract,
Have you read this perspective yet from Dave?
Now, although I might happen not to agree with that specific POV 100%, it would seem to be folly for others to think that there is but ONE legitimate viewpoint to hold on the quality of this trade and what it will/might eventually mean for the future [long term] direction of the Raptors.
CanuckX,
I don’t mean to make you wait unnecessarily … but, I’d like the last domino to fall in this specific sequence of events before commenting further here. Hopefully, you can understand the logic behind that.
Okay. It will take a lot of convincing for anyone to believe the Magic came out way ahead of the Raptors. Looking forward to it!
For the sake of clarity … please note, as well, that … I also did not say that it was “way” ahead…. and I fully expect to be able to convince no one of the correctness of my perspective.
I’ll still be blown away by an just barely “ahead” argument. Raps have little chance for a bench one day and a very good chance to obtain a decent bench the next while giving up, well, not much at all. Orlando gets cash (who cares) – and trade exemption, which certainly could help, but they have a great starting cast already. We’ll see – but the Raps delta from one day to the next is hard to beat.
Don’t you know that it takes time to drum up outrageous contrarian opinions?
I’d like to retract that comment – my bad.
HAHAHA…at least you are learning khandor
Biggest winners were Orlando and Dallas? Toronto got the player they wanted, plus 2 potential (1 definite) rotation players and got $8M to spend on free agents. Dallas got Marion for nearly as much per season as Hedo. Not a bargain. TO made out like bandits in this transaction, absolutely brilliant.
Agreed about Orlando though, they gave up nothing and got a trade exemption for $10M. Pretty easy decision for them to make, get an asset for literally nothing. Plus they’re already in the tax, so adding a player isn’t out of the question. For Otis Smith to not participate in this deal for fear of helping the Raps is not in the best interest of the Magic.
Not sure I 100% agree to “thank” Otis Smith. No GM does charity work or solely to help another team (esp in his own conference). Maybe they meet in the first round – do you really think Otis wants to help BC that much? BC deserves credit for convincing Otis that he would benefit. Else, we are to believe that Otis woke up one day and said “you know, I really ought to give a competitor a gift… let’s S&T Turk to help out our good friends that are in a bind”. No way.
Maybe Commissioner Stern got involved and twisted a few arms in Orlando … because we all know that Stern is committed to eventually making the NBA an ‘international’ league … and Toronto is their first step. There’s big money in expansions for NBA owners, and Stern is their point man on expansions. (Just wildly speculating .. but who knows why things happen ..!!)
you know when the four team thing was being thrown around, i too had a momentary thought of the nba assisting US for some strange (cough future expansion cough cough) reasons…
If that were true, you would think he would have instructed his minions to throw a couple calls our way.
If I mysteriously disappear tell my mother I love her!
While it’s really tempting to start drinking the new Kool-Aid in July, are we even sure the Raptors make it to the first round? Orlando, Cleveland and Boston are making the playoffs next year barring catastrophic injuries. So who gets the other 5 spots? Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Chicago (who could skyrocket), Detroit, Washington (who could finish between #1 and #15 and not surprise me), Indiana and Charlotte all could make the playoffs. The East is going to be a dogfight next year.
Absolutely correct. I think the excitement stems from the prob that will be infinitely better than last year (not saying much) and will be competitive in those races. Second round still a stretch, but we’re in MUCH better position than the vast majority would have thought at year end.
Agree completely. Personally, I don’t go in for all the ‘make the first round, make the second round’ goals. The whole point is to win it all. However, if you’re not going to take the championship (the Raps won’t) then at least be competitive and put the best damn team together that you can. I think they’re trying to do that and expect some improvement this year. If they go out there and actually compete in every game, then all the hype will be well deserved.
Sam,
IMO, you are moving in the correct direction.
Somebody become the KING of dislike……..haahahaa
Miami will be lucky to make the playoffs next year. they have done nothing to improve and a one minor injury to Wade from having a good shot at a #1 overall pick. If you don’t believe me, name their second best player.
Jamario Moon naturally
Beasley? Maybe? They hope, anyway.
Absofuckinpositivalutly.
I just can’t wait for Miami to pick up Allen Iverson so they can really take a big dive next year.
Rap of the OFF SEASON.
+1
My question to all….where in the heck did the second round pick in 2016 come from???? Have we already traded all our second rounders from here until then??? how do you judge the value of a second round pick 7 years from now??? advanced scouting of some 11-12 year old bball camp??? seriously….whose idea was that pick and why??? not complaining, just sorta intrigued by it
The advance scouting on those 11-12 year old camps says its gonna be a weak draft class, so the second round pick wasn’t as valuable as it normally is.
You are joking right? Are they really advance scouting 11-12 year olds?
A good friend of mine joked that the 2016 pick is irrelevant for Memphis and its fans…
…seeing as there might not even be a team there at that point.
*drumfill*
Clearly, that is the year the Raps will win the championship (and place tops in the league in the regular season) thus rendering the second round pick effectively worthless at 60th overall.
Not sure why Otis suddenly deserves our thanks. A week ago any rumoured sign-and-trade basically involved him doing us a favour for no apparent reason. He said he wouldn’t waste his time with a trade that doesn’t benefit his team. We found that benefit (Memphis’ trade exception) and Otis went with it. Orlando may not use that exception, but if you ask any NBA GM if they’d take a $7 million trade exception for free, not one of them would hesitate to say yes.
The only people we should be thankful for his Bryan Colangelo and Mark Cuban. BC gets praise for obvious reasons, and Cuban gets it for being so determined to get this trade done.
Disagree, to an extent. They probably won’t use the exception either in a trade or themselves as they are already over this years cap and next and could flirt with the luxury tax. He could have said no and received nothing and also not helped an eastern conference foe. You may say that doesn’t matter, but Colangelo wanted to trade Marion west for that very reason.
If they don’t use the money, the Magic gave the Raptors a pretty sweet lifeline for nothing in return.
I guess so. But are we really a foe? I feel like that’s being pretty generous. In the end, I think they take a chance with the trade exception, over worrying that we’ll vault from 2nd last in the conference to a contender for the 3rd spot.
Really depends. If Howard and Carter lose 20-30 games to injury combined, we could be pretty close in the standings. If Howard gets hurt close to or in the playoffs, they could be sitting ducks. If that were to happen and they were facing the Raptors, would you rather face the Raptors with the lineup they have now or the one they had 2 days ago?
That’s silly. The lineup 2 days ago wouldn’t make it to the playoffs. ;)
In my opinion the strength of the trade exception that Orlando received would be utilized under the exact opposite “what if” scenario. They have a big trade exception in their back pocket if they look like they are going to be the favorite in the east heading into the trade deadline, due to their good fortune and other teams misfortunes, and under those circumstances the Orlando Magic would just say “Fuck the cap ramifications, bring in another big gun, we’re GOING FOR IT!”
perhaps a stupid question: any way that the trade exemption can be moved (i.e. traded)?
Exactly…and it’s insurance if they have a mid-season injury and need to fill a spot to stay competitive (ala Nelson this past season). There will a ton of sellers at the trade deadline.
If it’s in Toronto’s interest to send Marion West, isn’t it also in Orlando’s interest?
I agree that Cleveland will be a top 3 team in the East, quite possibly the best.
However I’m not so sure about Orlando, Turkoglu was key to their success with his ability to create his own shot late in the shot clock, and his ability to facilitate the offence with his ball movement. While Carter can replace creating his own shot, I think he’s gonna be a bit of a ball stopper in an offence that requires alot of ball movement. They’re most likely still a very good team, but you have to remember that was a very unorthodox team that played without a 4, and used two 3s in Lewis and Turk, so there remains the possibility that Turks departure could be heavily underestimated.
Also Boston is very old, their big three has ALOT of miles on their legs and sooner or later will run out of gas, especially if they try to sustain the intensity and effort they had in the past two regular seasons. So I’m a reluctant to pencil them in as an elite team in the East.
I’ll admit I’m looking at things with very rose colored glasses, but fuck isn’t that what the point of being a fan during the offseason is?
Of all the things that are mean to say about Vince, a “Ball-stopper” would never be one of them. This is a guy who made the extra pass and kicked the ball out all the time, despite scoring 25 a game.
Selfish while playing the game of basketball? Never.
I don’t deny that he’s willing to make an extra pass, but guys like him have that alpha dog mentality ingrained into them, so his supreme confidence in his abilities will lead him to take shots that he should pass on.
Or maybe my supreme hate of him clouds my vision.
Your supreme hate is coloring your opinion.
Vince Carter isn’t an alpha dog. He was at his best when Charles Oakley was running the locker room, and when J-Kidd was running the locker room. He’s a deferrer by nature, always willing to make the extra pass, set up a teammate, etc.
He is also a whiner, selfish off the court, willing to dog a season to sneak out of town, and willing to pretend he is injured to not play ball.
Please don’t think I like Vince Carter the person, but I watched him in his prime, and while I hated the fact that he settled for jumpers, refused to take it to the rack, there was a lot to like about his game. He could get any shot he wanted any time he wanted it, he loved to make the spectacular pass to a teammate, he was, and still is, I guess, an exceptional basketball player.
Seeten,
R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for the content, quality and accuracy of your comment.
14 dislikes for addressing another commenter with respect? seriously?
I don’t claim to agree with Khandor, and I can certainly understand why a lot of us would choose to click the “dislike button” on far-fetched, negative comments of his, but not everything he chimes in is worthy of that response.
I feel like the guy is getting picked on here; not that it would affect his ego about the subject.
I read the content on this site far more than I contribute to it, and from what I read, I have to say, Khandor gets a lot of hate.
Yes, he comes off as pompous, anti-Raptors, and disillusioned at times in our eyes, and he certainly brings some of the hate on himself, but man, I think there’s always a need for someone to play the devil’s advocate.
Sometimes, I don’t know how he can believe some of the things he opines (i.e. Magic gain > Raptors gain from the trade), but opinion-wise, he’s challenging the stat quo, and that, in and of itself is of merit.
IMO the real issue with Carter is the fact that his teammates expect him to be the alpha-dog but he only accepts that role when his mood is right. He’s not a ball stopper but often a flow stopper…teammates need to read his mood (passive or aggressive) to figure out how they need to play their game around him, which can be frustrating.
are you on crack? VC always tried to score on 3 or 4 guys at once. I hope you are being sarcastic. I totally see the Magic being about par with the Raptors next year, BET!
Dwight is great and is the cornerstone of their team, but Hedo was their X-Factor for sure and second best player IMHO. Now the Raps still have their top three guys and have added the Magic’s 2nd best. The East is still weak in a lot of ways. The Raps should have made the playoffs last year, but had an off year due to some really bad judgement, mismanagement by MLSE and injuries. The Raptors are still a good team, don’t believe the hype from the states folks. They will diss the team every chance they get. It’s a quality organization and the players are starting to figure that out.
My predicted EAST order of finish:
1) Cleveland
2) Boston
3) Chicago
4) Toronto
5) Orlando
6) Atlanta
7) Detroit
8) Philadelphia
I agree about Carter. The most common move I recall during his last years in Toronto was: receive the ball at the top of the key, fake a drive, fake a jumper, fake the drive again, shoot. That’s the epitome of ballstopper: you get the ball and assume whatever you do, that’s the best option.
ya… ARSEnalist good name, cause really you’re just an ARSE with a soap box that really knows nothing about basketball… so why don’t you shut the hell up? the only good thing about you site is the news feed
Would you have commented if his name was something that provided less fodder for your cunning wit, intelligent insights, and breathtaking analysis?
hahahaha….mooj…too funny
Bob, I completely agree with your assessment.
I think all the talk about who ‘won’ the trade is kind of superfluous. Fact is, the Raptors are a lot better after this deal than before it, Dallas got to sign the player they wanted, and Orlando got an exemption that they wouldn’t have if they weren’t involved. Winner, winner, winner, Turkish Delight dinner :)
This did seem like one of those extremely rare win-win-win-win scenarios. Even Memphis got something out of the deal by shedding salary and a draft pick to boot.
This wouldn’t have even happened if Colangelo didn’t have the balls to announce the Turkey signing even though it would have meant gutting our bench. He gets full credit in my book.
I notice Memphis conspiculously absent from your list of winners. Does the trade exemption that goes to Orlando mean that Memphis can’t spend that cap space this year?
Whats a Redditor? Do you mean a user of the user generated news content site reddit.com? In that case, you are mistaken kind sir.
Seems to me like everyone across the world wide webs of Raptorland is subtly coining this squad “the best team on paper” without, you know, boldly stating it.
It’s nice.
Ok enough feeding of the trolls, I’m interested in what everyone thinks we should do with the MLE, the big prize of today’s 4-way.
I like Kleiza for it because of his age, ability to score, and versatility in being able to play the 3 or 4, although I think he’s more of a 3. He’s also a pretty solid rebounder and would be a nice 6th man. Although I think in this market the MLE may be able to yield someone better. Not gonna happen, but if Lamar Odom could be had for the MLE, I’d wet myself, and probably anyone within a 10m vicinity.
Kleiza is too offensive minded for my liking, we already have Hedo who does what Kleiza does and then some. As I said in the post, perimeter defense, outside shooting and rebounding need to be addressed. Grant Hill would be nice, a Rasho return would be cool too but throwing the MLE at him seems like a waste for some reason. See Chisholm’s article linked in the post.
Agreed. I like Barnes.
I like Barnes too…nobody has mentioned Nate Robinson backing up Jose. This would create scoring on our bench rotation and with Turkoglu playing the point forward in late game sitations you would have a very potent offense.
Nobody has mentioned it because it has zero chance of happening. Would be a nice move though.
What’s hapening with Nate in New York?
I hate Nate Robinson – he’s an egotistical, ball-hogging prick. Does he have game? Certainly, but I wouldn’t want him on the Raptors by any means. I’d honestly rather have Roko huffing and puffing at the point.
Josh childress…but maybe I’m missunderstanding the salary cap….
So it wouldn’t come out of the mle or bi sexual exemption to sign Carla delfina (get it?)?
If that’s the case I suppose we should just take her and pray she plays the way we are imagining she did 2 years ago.
If that’s the case I think we should go after a good point guard (Felton!) because I think roko is crap and there is actually a chance calderon is too.
If that becomes something too unattainable, I would go for klieza as a 6th man because he can score and play 3 positions.
bi-sexual exemption…
bada-bom-bom-ching!
Childress if he could be had.
Childress is a bitch….we dont need anymore nice guys….we need guys with tattoos and gold teeth…i like Barnes
Cavs – Celts – Magic: top three teams, order depends on their health
Wiz – Raps – Hawks: fill out the next three spots (in that order providing the Wiz are playing w/healthy Arenas)
Heat – Bulls – Philly – Charlotte get to play for the remaining two spots
Bobcats: still stink – too young, will miss the depth of Felton if he leaves
Philly: seems like they’ll lose Andre Miller and don’t have a real replacement
Heat: still stink – if they sign AI they would compete for a legit playoff spot, will struggle heavily if they don’t sign somebody
Bulls: lost BG with no replacement, and are now dealing Ty Thomas and Heinrich to rent Boozer for the year – if Deng plays for the year and more than half of Boozer shows up they could compete – just seems like theres a lot of questions regarding this team to say either way
Who would you rather see the Raps sign: Delfino or Klieza? And along with one of them, Leon Powe or Big Baby?
If none of them are appealing say someone else like a Barnes, or Rasho..
Powe wont be available till after xmas(maybe)
Big baby is a big baby,no thanks
Matt Barnes would add some tats and bling!!!!
I’m still waiting for your report about AP status khandor
Actually Khandor himself is waiting for the status of AP to drop before he illuminates our useless basketball minds with his theories on how Orlando and Dallas were the biggest winners in this deal. Even then, if you reread the post
“the theories were I’ll have more to say about this specific topic in an entry on my blog, once I get further clarification on the exact status of Anthony Parker.”
Why in the hell would I self induce a mind fuck by actually voluntarily going to your blog (probably doubling your hits for the day) to read one of your posts on how your basketball intellect is so much greater than all others and how you knew this was going to happen all along as you predicted it in your shower 3 months ago while gently stroking your Chris Bosh rubberducky…
It was a simple request for you to clarify your position LOL
+1,000,000
+1,000,000 more…
(despite my Kapono-like defence of Khandor in one of the threads above)
…because Creebrave, your post was awesome.
Raul,
Haven’t been able to find out anything further yet about Parker’s situation with Cleveland. If/when I do, I will let you know.
Raul,
Please accept my apology for being late with this update, but … it is already posted in the side-bar on this site that Michael Grange has now confirmed Anthony Parker’s signing with the Cavaliers, as of 8:28 AM this morning.
**********************
All concerned,
Stop acting like children. Personal attacks or purposely trying to egg someone else on to provoke a reaction has no place on our site. Some of you give off a “what did I do?” bullshit facade when we confront you on it and it’s growing tiresome. We have let more stuff slide than most Raptors related sites that do not moderate comments allow. We are vehemently opposed to moderating comments and refuse to do so. Something else we are vehemently against is being your parents.
We don’t want to be forced to go to a comment-less site. We take pride in our work on this site. Personally I spend hours a day providing you links and feeding twitter, Arsenalist writes probably the best Raptors related articles on the web, RapsFan and Realizar look after the Facebook page, throw up some great articles, monitor the site, and throw great Fan Friday get togethers.
You are here for a reason. We have become one of the top Raptors sites and have done so in less than a year. Many man hours have gone into making this place tick, especially through a hell of a season. It baffles me that you folks made this site popular yet some want to make it a cesspool. We posted about what we wouldn’t allow in the comments, we have emailed individuals, we have banned some, we have publicly warned a few…yet it continues.
Personally, I could care less. I enjoy what I do here and elsewhere, so you can all find a new place to play capture the flag when we turn comments off. It’s your call. We can continue publishing work and have you comment about it or argue about it in a civil manner…or we can publish it and have you scurry off somewhere else to throw lemon meringue pies at each other or have a dick measuring contest.
Most of the comments here are great. Matter of fact, the majority of comments this week were well above what we normally see and also featured some new faces with fantastic fresh insights. Lets cultivate that and make this the mecca of all things Raptors.
As Arsenalist alluded to in the post above, we have some great new ideas and features that we will be rolling out. All of them involve you. Please don’t make us second guess some of these things that we have been working on for 2 months. It’s unfair to us but, ultimately, unfair to yourselves.
Thanks.
AltRaps.
Sorry altraps … my posting #17 was meant as a response to your declaration.
Now that the realgm crowd have discovered your forum they have flooded it with their bball feeeeelings. These guys are effeminatized twats who were taught to get in touch with their feeeeelings by feminist teachers. They flock together like tribal honking fans massaging each other’s feeeeelings. The forum reeks with “like/dislike” feeeeelings. If that’s what you want, you are casting pearls to swine … so obvious.
These adolescent emotives wear baggy jeans, air jordans, a picture T and wear their caps bass ackward … and they come on to RR to seek their manhood. They intensely ‘dislike’ Khandor because he is somewhat pedantic with his authoritative comments based on facts. The dweebs can’t cope with facts because they operate on feeeelings. They hate Khandor because he teaches and doesn’t join into their happy circle jerk.
If you need a lot of hits for your website, you have found your target audience, but every time you compose a lead article, just load it with sugary simple shit … and your adoring fans will slobber the forum with their +1 ludicrous one-liner blurts. Btw .. if Khandor ever abandoned your forum, like fluxland has, you would most certainly become an offshoot of realgm … adolescent heaven.
Do what you wish, but you must admit the intellectual level of RR has plummeted to that of the tribal honking fan and the comments not worth readin. Au revoir …..
I completely agree with this. I love reading the excellent comments and insights of the people who actually take the time to provide real insight, and even answer the questions of those who are trying to understand/learn about basketball.
What we don’t need, and what isn’t interesting, is the personal attacks, baiting, and useless flaming.
I too have found that the level of chat has been plesant as of late…but there are still CERTAIN posters who continue with their schtick.
In all honesty dude, I think you need to talk on a personal level with CERTAIN individuals, and get them to tone their shit down.
All I want is a forum where I can come and voice my opinions about the Raptors. What I don’t need however is someone shamelessly plugging their own site and “egging” on others, on a consistent basis. If I am wrong please “people of the raps” let me know!
BTW I love this site and I fully appreciate the level of dedication that you guys put forward…GO RAPTORS! Keep on doin’ yo thang thang!
Agree with that fully. I check this site a few times a day and have come to count on the very high caliber of Raptors discussion, not to mention the terrific analysis of what’s going on in Raptor-land by the main writers, led by the incomparable Arsenalist, who should absolutely be allowed in to the Raptors media scrums, if he really wants to be there. [On that note, considering how in vogue ‘blogs’ in general have become and then considering that RR is (more and more) obviously the king of Raptor-blogs, maybe it’s time that the case be made to allow an RR rep into the press conferences along with the rest. I’m not one for petitions much but that’s one I’d go out of my way to sign. Of course, if Arsenalist and/or one or two others of the RR staff weren’t really interested in getting in there, then … never mind.]
Hope this post isn’t too short for Edgar Allan Poe.
If one certain person was removed you would have solved the problem yourself.
see dislike results
If the like/dislike option on the comments is not being used for its intended purpose, but rather providing ammunition towards advocating a mob mentality towards a specific individual, perhaps their inclusion should be reconsidered.
Regards
When you insult as many people as this person has it tends to attract a mob unfortunately…it’s quite obvious that this one individual poster, who dominates the comments with their shameless plugs and veiled insults to others, incites and eggs on 90% of the negative behavior on this site (I suspect he relishes the attention).
In spite of this person, as I’d go as far to say this is one of the best basketball websites out there, period…would be a shame for that to change.
As someone who reads more that he posts, I’ll offer a backseat perspective. This is by far the best Raptor Site. The content is top notch – especially Arse. The comments are also excellent. I love b-ball but never played so I don’t understand the nuances you guys do. Comments from people like Yertu, etc. have given me a much deeper understanding of the game and individual’s strengths and weaknesses. Turning off the comments would be a HUGE mistake.
Sometimes things get out of hand, but mostly the comments are pretty funny. Even Nunya – a true artist of vulgarity. You have to have a sense of humour.
You’re always going to have a few A-holes, like the guy ripping Arse in one of the comments above, but those people are exceptions, not the norm.
Thanks for the great site.
Cheers,
I’ll just be lazy and say “ditto”. My feelings exactly.
Ditto x 2…
I couldn’t agree more on the subject, but…is it just my memory or I remember a discussion some time ago about one of you guys of the RR front office labeling some readers/fans as ‘idiots’ because of their specific idea on some technical aspect of the Raptors’ management? I don’t want to start a dispute at all (as I said I agree with your statement), but I think the rule should apply all across the comments, despite of who’s the actor. Or am I wrong?
Here is a sampling of useless one-liner blurts that infest every topic thread:
i tells ya, he’s a genius
OK, I have to ask….do you even LIKE the Raptors?
HAHAHA…at least you are learning khandor
Somebody become the KING of dislike……..haahahaa
Jamario Moon naturally
hahahaha….mooj…too funny
Agreed. I like Barnes.
I’m still waiting for your report about AP status khandor
Is this intended to be a chatsite with adolescent minds expressing their immediate feeelings and attempting to reach out to form some kind of group hug consensus? Personally, I don’t give a shit how some dweeb feeels about himself and has just gotta let everybody else know about it. If you want this to be a chatsite instead of a discussion forum, then that’s what it will degenerate into …. realgm II.
As for the “like/dislike” .. that’s totally immature and caters to the shitchatters who can’t compose a thoughtful paragraph of reasoned commentary. It’s your website, but if it were mine, I would rid it of the spurious shit that’s stinking it up now.
Dude….Not every response has to be some long drawn out, overly verbose non-sense. Not everyone has to act like Charles Dickens just to make a point everytime. No one is getting paid by the word here. Instead of complaining about others, why don’t you think of another topic to discuss other than you screaming to the world about people posting “one-liners” or how Bosh is not a max player.
BTW…constant swearing, name-calling and sanctimonious ranting is quite adolescent and immature in itself.
I enjoy the one-liners. Like Rye mentioned, we are not getting paid to be here (at least I’m not). We are here because it is an oasis of BBall conversation in a hockey-dominated desert.
Relax and enjoy yourself.
I think we should go for Rasho. He passes well , hit the 15 footer , doesn’t attract attention and knows how to play with the core of the Raptors. I also like Delfino. I like that arrogant looking smirk he has when he is playing well. We need some cockiness. He kinda reminds me a bit ( only a bit ) of Hedo. 2 years ago he was basically the only guard that was willing to attack the basket and go up for dunks ( even though he missed countless dunks throughout the whole season , lol )
your right…we need depth at center first of all we traded Hump,,I think we have to anticipate Bargnani getting injured for 20 games (hopefully not) but what if AB goes down…we’re fuct!
we need a backup:
C & pg and or Wing
Collangello was on the fan this morning, and Rasho sounds like a lock. Apparently he didn’t bother selling his place in T.O. after last years trade.
He is a great fit. He is a smart, big body with experience and a great attitude.
A steal at the low level exception.
from today’s Toronto Star (via HoopsHype):
Rasho Nesterovic, a veteran centre very much on the mind of the Raptors now, would like nothing more than to rejoin the team he reluctantly left a year ago. “I never wanted to leave, it was just a matter of numbers and business, I understand that,” Nesterovic said in a telephone interview from his native Slovenia yesterday. “To come back would be great, I’d love to. Toronto is always and will always be my favourite city.”
As long as he stays a backup center, I’m be more than happy to have him.
Come on home Rasho! We would love to have you back!
You are truly an under rated centre in the league, who has had a nice long career for a big guy.
Please come back and block up our paint, box out the other team and rebound, rebound, rebound!
Bring your Canucka Baby home!
Sorry cant seem to thread replies from my phone… In regards to Nate Robinson my only question would be if his ego could handle coming off the bench behind Jose? His mannerisms strike me as him being a bit full of himself. Too much so to allow him to come off the bench any further in his career. TJ anyone?
I agree hes a douche, and kinda a hog….but if it means anything, I think hes friends with Dero (Demar) because he follows him on twitter.
Following up on my “will they even make the playoffs” comment, I agree with CanuckX and others that this team looks exciting on paper but still think they might be fighting for the #8 late in the season. Right now, it looks like they will get killed on the boards night in and night out although Bosh could have something to say about that if he was willing to focus on rebounding. But injuries happen and a team like Boston could fall off considerably and a team like Atlanta, Miami or Chicago could regress even without major injuries.
While he was nowhere near as good as the hype at the end of last year, I like the fact the Raps have the right to resign Pops. If they can get him for the minimum or close they should sign him to have another young big. With his athleticism I wonder if he could be coached into being a poor man’s Matrix – able to guard inside and on the perimeter and a spark for the fast break. If he can become disciplined on defense and stay healthy he could be an asset this year and beyond.
I like bringing Rasho back but only for small amounts.
Brandon Bass intrigues me as he adds some low-post game and all-around toughness.
We’ll know whether all these moves and talk are justified the first time the Raptors are in a game where things are fucking up. The old Raptors were the easiest team in the world to beat once you got a bit of a run going on them. They just didn’t know how to fight back. I want to see a team that claws back into a 4th quarter that was getting away on them, if that happens regularly next season the moves were a success.
I doubt Dallas will let Bass walk
He’s a UFA and they only have their LLE left.
Oh…that would be a nice tough find
How smart was it for Colangelo to get Bosh involved in getting Turkoglu here? Is it more likely now, that after Bosh actually got involved, picking up the phone to call Turk to encourage him to sign which he then did, that Bosh will be inclined to stay? I’d say that with that action, Colangelo went a ways towards closing the deal on Bosh, if not now, then later. Very smart.
I’ve said it all along, but Bosh really can’t be as frustrated with the front office’s direction as people tend to portray. He was surprised by how quickly Colangelo was able to make this into a playoff team. He fully endorsed and was excited about the JO deal. And now he’s helping to recruit and getting all excited on Twitter about this offseason’s additions. I’m sure he wishes the results were better, but it’s not like Colangelo’s been too complacent or made moves that Bosh disagreed with.
Hey FAQ….just outta curiosity…please explain how your post #17 isnt filled with useless one-liner blurts, spurious shit and/or adolescent mind(s) expressing their immediate feeelings and attempting to reach out to form some kind of group hug consensus?
I get that the personal attacks on certain people arent necessary, but really, what is your list “calling out” people all about? Have a sense of humour…if this site wasnt funny AS WELL AS insightful, I dont think it would have nearly the amount of traffic/followers it does.
The world can be a pretty shitty place, we come here for a break….humour can provide that…so while you might not like comments to be about anything other than the merits of bargs new contract or whose starting at the 2, I welcome a little humour and fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes,we have to give credit when credit is do….good job BC
Orlando’s GM & The Mav’s GM are not stupid businessmen
Business is business and if anybody thinks for a minute that one of these individuals did this trade out of the kindness of their heart is dilusional.
Smoke and mirrors,a little snake oil and off to the races.
Bc’s acknowledgement of Fruitman was good PR….period.
Assuming we sign Delfino and Rasho, hypothetically speaking, if we could sign 1 or 2 of these players with the MLE, which would you prefer and why?
Von Wafer
Barnes
Kleiza
Bass
Pachulia
Bogans
Wilcox
Royal Ivey
Gooden
Brevin Knight
Ronnie Price
Von Wafer for O
Barnes for D
Done! That’s a team. (assuming we get Delf and Rash).
Those would be my choices as well. Provided we could get both for less than the full MLE which might be possible.
Personally, my hope for the off-season is as follows.
First, though, thanks to all the contributors to this site. Far and away the best on the web.
Second, I don’t think the full MLE should be spent because a) we don’t need more than one more player and b) flexibility should be held onto for next year when Bosh re-ups and another MLE may be added.
So: my hope is…
Re-sign Delfino 3.5M (4 years)
Re-sign Pops 1M (2 years)
Sign Rasho 1.9M (2 years, BAE)
Sign Kleiza 3.5M (4 years, partial MLE)
Waive Douby
Leaving:
PG: Jose, Roko, Banks (Delfino)
SG: Derozan, Delfino, Wright (Roko)
SF: Turk, Kleiza, George (Wright)
PF: Bosh, Evans, Pops
C: Bargs, Rasho, POB
That leaves roughly 2 million below the lux tax this year.
Next year, POB, Douby’s contract, Wright, George, come off saving 5.2 M.
If (case A) the cap stays level next year, Bosh will get 17.3M, a 0.2M raise. In this case tax is 69.9 M.
If (case B) cap drops to 50M (worst case), Bosh will get 15M, a 2.1M drop. In this case tax level is ~61M. (9 mill lower than this year).
So:
Case A: tax room = 7 million (full MLE + min contract OR part MLE + LLE + min contract)
Case B: tax room = 0.4 million –> in this case, a couple small trades and min signings can finish roster, whereas with a full MLE commitment this year, will already be over the tax.
Of course, if MLSE is willing to pony up the cash, then none of this is any concern.
But I doubt they are.
Gee – apologize for the length – I guess all those line breaks didn’t help any…
Sorry guys.
Nah, the line breaks helped. No worries.
In light of your argument, I would think the best thing to do to find common ground is to delve into the one year contracts that Bryan Colangelo alluded to in yesterday’s press conference.
That way, you’re able to put together a quality roster with quality depth, and you maintain the flexibility with the cap situation come next year since the contracts come off the books.
Right?
Indeed.
And it should actually be really easy to find takers for a 1 year, with the what, 31 teams next year with huge (decreasing, but still huge) cap space.
Agreed. And given that non of the remaining FAs really blow me away with their talent and/or fit, it would be nice to keep contracts to a year and have some room available for next year in the event someone of better quality falls through the cracks.
This makes sense. Although I’m not a Kleiza fan and would rather see Barnes. He’d be cheaper as well allowing us to sign a Von Wafer for some added scroing at the 2 spot.
But like you I’d be wary of using all the money we have. Just cuz we have it doesn’t mean we should spend it all…yet. Either way it’s going to be a fun year and interesting to see what BC does next.
The fact that BC even HAS options as a result of yesterday’s trade is a testament to where we are now as a team, and something we should still be salivating over.
I’ve got the same roster in mind that you have. If only we could have re signed AP. But if AP is not comming, i like kleiza or maybe Bogans, and he’s cheaper. Bogans can be an upgrade to Wright. They bring the same in offense (Three point shooting) and bogans is a better defender
Gooden is best player of the group, but he does same things as Bosh does only not so good, because of that duplicating acquiring him would be a huge mistake.
1) Barnes is best fit for Raptors, good defense, can hit 3-pointer, can play multiple positions.
2) Von Wafer, low quality but adequately low price and very good team player (including good locker room qualities), plays GF which is Raptors need.
3) Bass would be good fit if there is no Reggie Evans that already occupies scrappy rebounding PF position,
4) Kleiza is streaky shooter and nothing else, he’s player ideal for Euroleague.
5) Pachulia, softy PF/C that will never be better than 7th/8th player on the roster.
6) Wilcox is double-double guy with no side stats, pretty disinterested in game flow unless it is about his scoring. Best described as poor man’s Zach Randolph. BTW, thouhgh Wilcox looks more mean than Z-Bo, he actually behaves well.
I cannot ranking other 4 players
TOO OLD – Brevin Knight and Ronnie Price
TOO BAD – Royal Ivey and Bogans
I would prefer Joey Graham over each of those guys except for Barnes and maybe Wafer (equal quality to Joey but cheaper).
First, thanks be to AltRaps, RapsFan, and whoever else admins. the RR.
I’m still worried about the lack of rebounding, defensive intensity and grit by the projected starters in the front court, but this deal BC just whipped up to get the MLE back AND get solid depth is freaking excellent. It’s crafty. It’s the type of move that fans expect from the management wizard.
Still wouldn’t mind seeing one of the starting PF or C slots filled by someone more physically imposing, but at least some progress has been made.
As for additional help, I like Barnes for the scrappy toughness that’s already been alluded to and Delfino for his ball-handling and play-making abilities. Either would be great.
I agree despite the excellent moves made so far by BC we are still lacking enough toughness, grit, defence and rebounding. I like both Barnes and Delfino. Leon Powe would be a nice addition to fill some of these holes but he is coming off an injury and is not scheduled to play until 2010. Also think we need a defensive minded pg.
After checking further, I realized that Powe and Evans are both 6′ 8″ and 240 lbs which would make them redundant. I thought Powe was at least 6′ 10″. Wonder if Magloire has anything left??? Could use another big man (6′ 11″) with some grit on the cheap.
I know that there are still a ton of moves to be made for this team, but how awesome would this trade be:
To Suns – Bosh, Calderon, Derozan
to raps – Stoudemire, Nash
To be honest, I love that we got Turkoglu. Best move ever for Raps. But Bargs, Bosh and Turk all score from the outside. We need some scoring and toughness in the paint. And with Nash we become legit contenders instead of surprise ones. Headline reads: Nash comes to Toronto to win Championship. Holy shit, raps tickets would sell for more than leafs ticks.
I wouldn’t give Derozan away…too much upside.
Wow, that would be good trade for Raptors … 5 years ago. As of today, Suns would get rid of two declining veterans for young players with upside. Calderon is already better than 35-year old Nash and Amare is slightly better than Bosh but only when healthy (which he usually isn’t). It would practically be giving DeRozan for nothing in start – and would look worse for Raptors each year with Nash aging (remember how Nets fans chanted “Thank you, Cuban” ? ) and DeRozan maturing.