Reports claim he has been living on Red Bull and Twinkies the last coupledays/nights.
The shot-clock is expiring, and Colangelo has put in more work over the last few days then he has all season, I can feel it. His Teflon is wearing thin with whispers that his job could be on the line. Needless to say, the man is motivated to field a solid team to start the season, win a lot of games (45+) and hopefully get into the second round. At the least, he needs to build a team that Bosh believes in, to re-up.
Lon Babby (Hedu’s agent), has an artificial a deadline of Thursday to get a contract drafted and signed. Needless to say, in hopes of not having the Hedu signing go to waste, B.C. needs to do something ASAP to put a couple more guys around DeMar and Hedu at the wing spot, or risk having Douby and D-League pro-stars round out the empty 2 and 3 spots.
Hopefully this pic made you as happy as it made me…In order to sign Turkoglu, Colangelo had to renounce the rights of Delfino, Marion and Parker so that their ‘cap hold’ comes off the books, actually freeing up the salary cap space we have because of their expired contracts. Depending on where the cap lands, the Raptors can have little to no room to round out the roster. Meaning that if B.C. stands pat, and does nothing, we run the risk of losing those three assets which WILL cause the Hedu signing to be worse then it already is (potentially eating all your cap room to sign a player who is a sick player, but wont help that much if you only have three wings on the team).
I tried researching the CBA, to make heads or tails of what the options the Raptors have, but lets face it, it is a complicated mess. The issue that arises is with our expiring free agents. Apparently, we can sign and trade our guys for help, AND sign Turkoglu … BUT, we have to do the S&T before inking Turkoglu. That’s where the deadline of Thursday starts to get sticky. Teams, that are well versed in the CBA, know that the Raptors have their backs to the wall, and will rape on us any deal. You don’t need to be a genius to figure that one out.
Looks like Leo found someone to go clubbing with…Obviously Marion is the most valuable asset we have at the moment (as much as we like Parker and Delfino, they just wont be bring back equivalent talent in a trade), and the current rumour has him being signed and traded to the Mavericks for Jerry Stackhouse…yea…doesn’t seem like the kind of move that someone with his job on the line would make. BUT, it isn’t that bad either. We get some cheap veteran (and I mean veteran, Stackhouse will be 35 when the season starts) leadership coming off the bench and mentoring DeRozan (although I’m not sure I want Stack mentoring our kid – sorry for the brackets).
Another rumour floating out there is Humphries and a pick (presumably our 2011 1st rounder) for anyone. Although this deal does clear up some of the logjam on the front-court AND serves to save me heart burn every time Hump makes a move to the rack with the ball, it is bad. First of all, I cringe to think what Hump and a pick will net us; second, we can’t keep trading away our draft picks, that is one of the reasons this team has very little young talent. I mean, had we bought a 2nd rounder this year and drafted another wing, I wouldn’t be so nervous to give up another 1st rounder…but I digress.
You have to believe that BC is working every angle to get some wing help and veteran leadership, but I wont hold my breath that it will be quality help. If Marion seems to only be able to land us Jerry Stackhouse, I don’t even want to know what Parker and Delfino can get us. Fortunately, we will all know what kind of this team will be for the 2009-2010 season within the next couple days. Good to see that Colangelo has his big boy thinking cap on this summer. I’m sure he can do better than Jerry Stackhouse though (thanks Chris).
162 Raps
Man, where did you dig up that pic of Stack?
lol a gem
The Raps wouldn’t keep Stack in any trade, despite how photogenic he is, as they would flip him to another team – his real value is that apparently only $2mil of his salary is guaranteed…
stack isn’t staying you idiot!
Can anybody wite for this site? Man fire this guy!
yeah, teh witing on hear, buy thes ‘witers’ is howible…
+1 i’m not going anywhere, i own the domain name ;)
also, if we trade for stack, who the hell would we flip him for? getting ass raped to get stack, then trading him for someone who is worth less then him doesn’t seem to work out very well. we need some vets on the bench at the wing spot. just a couple questions. unless it is for the cap space, hopefully bc has something up his sleeve, which i believe he does.
As I understand it, there would be no flip. We’d simply pay him the $2 mil and send him on his merry way, if I understand correctly. However, me understanding correctly is always a gamble, so you’d be best to seek out some more reliable sources.
There was some talk that even the $2 mil buyout was too much for us though. It’s a complicated situation, and I’m barely even trying to understand it. People get paid good money to work this stuff out, so what chance do we have?
i’m with you on understanding what is going on. i don’t know how signging and trading marion for stackhouse, then releasing stackhouse and only eating $2mil of his salary is helpful unless we get a $5mil exception that we can use right away to get a couple players.
Perhaps since you own the domain name maybe you should give it some credabilty by doing some research before you spit out the uneducated garbage that you just wrote. Just a thought. And as for yertu damstupid… your the type of fan that makes the raptors and canada look like a bunch of amateurs. You offer nothing to these sites which is surprising because you have so much time on your hands.
I guess I thought that between intenet porn, eating cheeto’s and masterbation you could read a few articles that would give you some what of an insight on whats going on with the raptors.
Perhaps if you used proper spelling, your comments would be credible as well.
Because you add so much insight and well-informed comments to this site
between the porn, cheeto’s and masturbation, it is amazing i do anything at all.
—–
BUT, i had the 3rd team/$2mil guaranteed stuff in my notes but forgot to add them in. so i apologize for the shoddy work there.
I like to stick to just cheetos and masturbation. Forget the porn
cheetos and masturbation can get very messy….I had to tell my wifey that the orange stuff was flavouring
If you have a problem with the quality of the material on the site, I urge you to start a better one. Enlighten us with your wisdom. That would be a lot more constructive then insulting the writers on this site. Just a thought. And perhaps you should put more thought into your slandering of other people.
All the haters against this site, should check themselves. You are the losers who are dissing and spending your valuable time on a site that you think is crap. This site is the best Raptors site on the web, IMHO. They may not always be right and they may not always agree with you, but at least they are there for us true Raptors fans. They are putting the time in to write new stuff everyday. They are the ones who put it all here so we can see all the raptor related links off of one click. So if you feel the need to disrespect the guys who run this site, once again your traffic here is thanked, but your attitude is unnecessary and unwanted. Let’s keep things constructive and not petty.
I second that…
Amen to everyone but mike and ad. it’s a basketball fan site. says that at the top of the page. and mike if you’re going to call someone’s work “garbage” maybe back up what you’re saying instead of just an insult. Just a thought.
Yeah I believe these moves are a way to get us some cap space, or trade exception to resign Delfino/Parker or make another trade. Seen in that light its a solid move. Agree they can’t give up another pick, we’re already losing the 2010 one if they make the playoffs, and quite frankly if they end up keeping that pick, there are bigger problems.
Is there a source that colangelos job is on the line? Or is it something youre making up in order to drive a point in your article?
Id make a safe bet that the only way colangelo leaves is on his own account.
Is it the 1 bad season following 2 straight seasons in the playoffs a feat out of the ordinary for the raptors that is causing the “whispers”?
Oh Toronto. Youre amazing. I like this team because I like to root for the underdog. Its who I am.
But its crazy how little youve accomplished as a franchise and yet how entitled you fans act.
“its crazy how little youve accomplished as a franchise and yet how entitled you fans act.”
So, because Raptors management has been somewhat inept for the entire life of the franchise, we are somehow less entitled to a winning team than other cities? Because they’ve been bad in the past it’s wrong for us to expect management to do their best to bring us a championship? I would argue that the fact that our franchise has struggled for some time makes us more entitled to demand some progress. When a team struggles, they are given the resources (ie draft picks) to attempt to turn it around. Portland and OKC are examples of teams that have been or are doing this. Toronto is not, hence our frustration.
And congratulations on being the kind of guy who roots for the underdog, but I think most of us root for, you know, the Raptors, whether they’re an underdog or not. So, for us to criticize Colangelo because this team has NOT progressed significantly over his tenure is perfectly acceptable, as it would be for any fan base to criticize management for not improving a team going forward.
And those whispers you ask about aren’t just related to one bad season following two seasons in the playoffs. They’re related to a number of gaffes that have led to further gaffes that are compromising this teams ability to move forward. The Bargnani pick, the Kapono signing, the TJ Ford trade, the O Neal trade, the Marion trade, and now this Hedo signing that has left us in a difficult financial situation. All of those moves would be viewed by some Raps fans (or all Raps fans, in the case of many of the moves) as failures. That’s plenty of hands down failures in a short time running the team. Eventually, too many failures get you fired, and many BCs failures have been well publicized risks that did not pan out. That’s why Toronto is falling out of love with Colangelo, and it’s perfectly legitimate.
bargs was not a gaffe. i am stilll in love with bc. you fail.
Yeah stack won’t be staying… its an effort to free up the money to sign other FAs.
I would not be to impressed if BC trades away another pick. Don’t get me wrong… I think draft picks can be real hit or miss, but you can’t keep trading them away. Having some home grown youth is always important (ie. the Mo Petes of the league). I like BC as a GM… but I can’t say I agree with his philosophy on drafts picks.
“whispers that his job could be on the line. ” – really? Can’t say I have personally heard any of these (not that I am exactly “connected”)… except in the blogosphere, and that is usually less than accurate.
Nice to see we are keeping up the trend of scantily clad women. Sigh.
The first rounder, if in play, can’t be in 2011 as we can’t trade 2 consecutive 1sts. It would have to be 2012.
Chatter this morning is if we can get Memphis or OKC drunk enough, we might sub Hump for Banks and they can be the 3rd team in the sign & trade.
LOTS of hard work going on. I commend Colangelo for trying to pull his ass away from the fire.
sorry, that pic was just too juicy to pass on.
Don’t apologize..scantily clad women are beautiful.
Just read the always solid Doug Smith’s article in this morning’s Star. Apparently, “There would be no real benefit to the Raptors, according to league sources, other than helping out a former player without jeopardizing the Turkoglu signing.”
Stack would be bought out or traded to a 3rd team, also it is Hedo not Hedu.
I like Hedu better
First coined by DD
Actually it is Hedayat
I like Hedu better, lol
Its spelled Hidayet
Glad I’m so quotable. ;-)
Colangelos job being on the line is a str8 up lie colangelo is not going anywhere u idiot this article has so mnay lies in it its ridiculous
fire this writer, this is bush league garbage
Joe / TI,
We welcome your input, but no reason to post 3 things, under 2 different names.
RapsFan (and all of us) can take the heat, but man up and don’t hide behind different aliases.
Thanks.
lol well played
Hahaha, what the hell is going on with this site lately? Or maybe it’s just that school’s out?
Dude, Get a clue, will ya? Stackhouse isn’t staying. He will be flipped immediately to a new team for , likely, draft picks. Do you not do ANY research at all? You didn’t have the inclination to read any of the dozen or so stories last night detailing what was going down? That there was a 3rd team involved. That BC will not be taking on any salary or Stack’s $2 million buyout? I am appying for a job as a writer with this website. I have little doubt I will be hired, as clearly the requirements are quite low.
i’ll publish whatever you write, email me rapsfan@raptorsrepublic.com.
Yes please, can you let people such as FAQ, Earthjuice and joe/ti write an article each for this site, I want to see what these people actually believe
Can I write too? I’ll end up going on a pointless tangent about how redheaded players are key to a championship calibre franchise. It’ll be fun I promise!
FAQ already writes for realgm and his knowledge is wanting.
Actually that doesn’t work, as signing Marion would eat up the cap space used for Turk. If Stackhouse if kept he does the same thing, eating up 7 million of the cap space. Also, if Stackhouse is waived then that still eats up $2 million of cap space with the only benefit being a trade exception equal to whatever the difference is between the first year of Marion’s contract and Stack’s 7 million.
Correct, hence the Stackhouse option, if still available and on the table, might (unfortunately) remain the best one. Rather eat $2mil and get an exception than letting people walk for nothing or getting what amounts to second round picks in 2011 or 12.
Depends on how you look at it. Do you let 3 or 4 guys walk or do you risk eating cap this year for something you can move or use down the road?
I don’t envy those guys today. They are going to have to call in a few chips to make something happen.
agreed, BryCo is earning their pay the last couple weeks (after the draft, not before or during).
Raps Fan your better then that.
Love the pic though.
BC is going nowhere even if this season is a mess.
Stack is not playing here even if we wanted him (we don’t) we cant afford him his salary is 7mil if he plays. 2 mil if he is bought out.
The trade may look like this:
Raps get 2nd round pick from either team
Mavs get Marion
Third team gets Stackhouse + something else they want from eiter team
Note: Raps would have to part with another player close to Mil to accomplish there goal of freeing salary as they will have to take Stackhouses 2 million off there cap (most likely Hump I would be guessing)
I don’t know all the ins and outs of the CBA but I am guessing this is what the Raps are trying to do. Hopefully we don’t have to give up any more draft picks.
I read on here the Raps do not have traded there next 2 first round picks I know about Miami having a lottry protected first rounder this year but who has the other one????? ALT RAPS help me out please with 2011 draft pick question
Never mine Alt raps I mis read your quote.
Correction Raps will want to give up another player in the 2 million dollar range in order to be able to buyout Stacks 2 Million.
Maybe Patrick Obryant, then we could use the cap space to sign Rasho and guards.
Come on BC make something happen
I don’t think BC will waste cap space on signing Rasho. It sounds like Rasho would be very interested in coming back to TO, and that he may sign for a minimum contract. This can be done (and in fact is the only way to fill out the roster) after all cap space and/or exceptions (mid-level and bi-annual, if we actually had them) has been used up.
agreed Rasho signs for the min after all the dust settles, unless another team makes him a bigger offer that he can not refuse.
i’d rather sign a wing before bringing in another forward/center…especially since we only have 2 wings (douby doesn’t count).
Yeah, but right now we only have Hump, O’Bryant, and Evans as our bench bigs (Pops has to be renounced, right?). Not very solid. Another big is definitely needed, and signing Rasho to a minimum contract has no effect on signing wings (except for counting as a roster spot).
i thought we offered pops a contract…the only way signing rasho wouldn’t count against us if we used the veterans minimum contract, and i’m not sure we have one of those available since we aren’t over the cap just yet.
I haven’t heard anything about Pops being renounced… last I heard they made him a qualifying offer.
Rasho has received some interest from elsewhere. I still think we have the inside track because he likes it here, but we aren’t a shoo-in.
Pops was offered a non-guaranteed two year deal, Im not sure what the cap implications are right now. I would assume that since nothing is official right now they wouldnt put through that deal until they had to. Most likely after the roster spots have been figured out.
Maybe having Stack’s ‘reduceable’ contract would help with a Hump or (please please please) Banks trade. But even if the Raps take back Stack, how can they trade him to a 3rd team without taking a salary back? Yes, they can acquire some draft picks, but how do they ‘match’ with a player’s salary (i.e. would one 2nd rounder be enough to match Stack’s $7 mil salary in a trade?)?
If so, then maybe there is some way of trading Hump (or Banks…please please please) with Stack’s reduceable contact for a cheaper but up and coming wing along with some sort of draft pick? The benefit for the 3rd team would be a serviceable young backup big (or shitball point guard) AND some salary relief by waiving Stack’s contract. The kicker is that we would not be able to take back any more than Hump’s (or Bank’s) contract in order to keep the signing space for Turk, so again I’m not sure how all that would work in terms of salary matching in the trade. Jesus this is complicated.
I believe a trade exception coming back would be part of matching Stack’s salary, but again, I’m not positive how that all works.
I think the third team has to be under the cap to make this work.
If team X is taking on Stacks 2 Mil you know they are going to want something nice in return hopefully a first rounder from Dallas but I hate to say it maybe ours.
I doubt it will be our draft pick, Dallas needs us to get Marion, I think they already used their full MLE on Gortat.
Even though passing off draft picks in trades is generally not a great idea keep in mind that it’s generally easy to buy them (if you want them), that it wouldn’t be a lottery pick according to most sources … and most of all … that this draft sucked!!! So really, who cares that we didn’t grab a second rounder from a projected weak draft. We may actually end up with one of those guys before the season starts anyway.
I was supposed to be easy to buy one in this year’s draft and look what happened. I’d rather keep what we have, at least MLSE can’t give it away at the last minute.
Just want to throw this out there since a lot of comments have shown that the people reading the site may have forgotten something:
This is a free site. It is a blog written by fans. They are writing their opinions – they are not journalists who are being paid to enlighten you or whose jobs depend on their credibility and reliability. If YOU, the people MAKING THE COMMENTS about how low the standards are on this particular site, would ACTUALLY USE YOUR OWN BRAINS for a moment, you would perhaps realize that this site owes you nothing, your complaints achieve nothing, and you’ve wasted the time of all of the good people who use the comments properly. Correcting an author with your comments is one thing: that’s just a good community at work. But attacking a piece with generic one-liners does a lot more to lessen the reputation of the site and the community than does the article above.
In short: don’t like the writing, go read something else. You won’t find a better raps site, that’s why you’re already here.
+1
That is a tweet and not a comment, you communist facist cretinous cunt :)
Well said.
I almost cried a little there.
Won’t speak for Arse and RapsFan, but I, for one, appreciate the sentiment.
me too, i really appreciate the words man.
Thanks.. now that I know this site is a bunch of amateur bullshit with no substance or source behind it, I won’t be returning. And I’m sure the best raps sites have a little truth to them and not pure speculation! Thanks for opening my eyes.
don’t let the door hit you on the way out, it swings fast…
Thanks dick !!!
You realize that this is the internet right?
Honestly, if you can’t see that
a) even the pros make mistakes sometimes (see Smith, Doug)
b) that everything you read on the internet needs to be taken with a grain of salt
Then you’re flat out hopeless. Have fun finding another site to do your thinking for you, because it seems you’re not willing to put in any mental effort yourself to engage the subject matter beyond expecting a perfect representation of the facts to be handed to you on a silver platter.
That’s without even mentioning that until the salary cap figures come in and the lift comes off on the 8th, EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION.
I’m driving all the kids on the short bus to basketball day camp next week.
haha… used to always be my 3 on 3 team name…. the Busdrivers
Well said Mark
This trade, if it happens, is simply BC doing a favour for Marion, his Agent, and the Mav’s, at no impact to the Rap’s except possibly some cash or draft picks, as they cannot take on salary and sign the Turk.
It allows the Mav’s to aquire Marion, and gives him more money than the MLE from someone, as the Mavs are using their MLE to offer Gortat, a RFA of Orlando a contract.
There may or may not be a possibility for BC to expand the situation to
include someone else to make cap room to sign FA’s.
Potential impact if we could dump Banks.
I don’t understand why people think trading Banks is viable. Who’s taking his contract for another 2 years? The only reason BC took it was because Miami wouldn’t make the trade without him included. The only way he’s traded is if the Raps need a deal sweetened, then they dump him and celebrate.
Well if Raps offer a team with cap space Stackhouse and $3 milllion, the team receiving Stackhouse would then make $1 million by giving up $2 million in cap space. If this occurs Raptors could have a huge $7 million in cap space.
I meant a $7 million trade exception, not cap space
If we keep Stackhouse we won’t have enough cap space to sign Turkoglu. Its called researchhhhhhh.
I like this move and expect BC has more minor moves up his sleeves that will all net out with the following things being achieved:
1. cap space to sign Turk
2. not having to renounce Delfino, which allows us to resign him at any time, using his Bird rights
3. not having to renounce Parker, opening the door for another sign&trade, either before or after the Turk signing
4. through all the wheelng and dealing, BC hopes to get our payroll to the point where the signing of Turk won’t cost us our mid-level exception, allowing us to sign another free agent for up to about $5.3M, regardless of our cap space
After agreeing to sign Turk, Marion’s future in Toronto is over and he is already an unrestricted free agent. If we can get anything for him, even if it is simply the ability to maintain the rights to our other free agents (to either resign or trade), it is a bonus.
Some of the rumors I have read claim that Dallas would include the $2M to cover Stackhouse’s buyout in the trade, meaning we would trim the entire $7-7.25M contract off our team salary. If that is the case, then this is a shrewd move by BC and will make the Turk signing that much more palatable.
…bingo.
if Colangelo is able to deal Marion, sign Turk/Delfino and another wing this will be an amazing summer for the raps
I also think he should look at trying to pick up Oberto to play the 5 off the bench, seems like a younger Rasho who would probably be willing to sign for the vet min considering he was bought out of his last contract
giving the raps
Bargs – Bosh – Turk – DeRozan – Calderon
Oberto – Evans – Delfino – Graham? – Ukic
which is a much improved team from last year if we can somehow manage to play a healthy lineup for 65 games
I think that BC has more moves to make, assuming this trade goes through. It will likely be 1-3 moves, involving Parker, Humphries and *hopefully* Banks.
1. Humphries to NJ for Keyon Dooling, to backup Calderon at PG
2. Parker & Banks together for a SG/SF and possibly even a C, since the RAPS could take back up to about $11M in salary for those 2 players
3. If they just get a SG/SF for Parker and/or Banks, then they could use the bi-annual veteran excepetion to sign Nesterovic to backup Bargnani (or a similar type of veteran C)
STARTERS(5): Bargnani, Bosh, Turkoglu, DeRozan, Calderon
BENCH(7): Nesterovic, Evans/Mensah-Bonsu, SF/SG from trade #2, Delfino, Dooling/Ukic
EXTRAS(3): O’Bryant, Jawai, Douby
I like the Oberto idea a lot.
oberto is with the pistons. yes he is good, but i dont want him if we give up another draft pick for him, like what we did to delfino.
Calgary Raps Fan, finally, someone on made a comment that is within the bounds of the CBA.
1) Dallas needs the 3rd team (either OKC or Memphis according to reports) to faciliate the trade because Toronto refuses to add any payroll in a Marion S&T.
2) Dallas wants Marion, there is no reason that the Raps would trade a pick to make this deal happen, unless the 3rd team is dumb enough to take back Marcus Banks (if the Raps can move Banks off the books at the cost of a pick, you have to do it, that guy’s contract is toxic waste).
3) If this 3rd team (Mem or OKC) takes back Banks (or Hump) and Stack, then the Raps can sign Turk free and clear ($10 million), and they will not have to renounce AP and Delfino.
4) If all the 3rd team is willing to take on is a Dallas pick, $3 million, and Stack, then the Raps do Marion a favour, but no extra cap room is created. AP and Delfino still need to be renounced.
The 2 mill would still hit our cap space even if the Mavs give us cash to facilitate the buyout. The Raps need to move the Mavs cash and Stack to a team that has cap space that won’t be using/needing it this year, OKC or Mem, so they can buyout Stack without affecting their roster or financials….but they will want something in return for the “favour” (they don’t need or want a trade exemption).
BC could also send the cash (to buyout Stack) and also include a player one of those teams want, for a player making less money than the player we send over (so we can use the difference in salary to sign a player to fill our anemic bench). OKC or Mem would likely want more cash to pay for the additional salary or a draft pick to sweeten the deal. It all depends on how much Cuban is willing to sacrifice for Marion (cash and picks on top of his salary)….oh, and this all has to be done before we sign Turk (since we would have to renounce rights to Marion before then) and I don’t see him waiting past Thursday to officially ink a deal.
If BC gets an asset out of Marion it would be Mega-block-ish and quite “above average”.
are you sure that with this trade we can keep both Parker’s and Delfino’s rights? and we could re sign both of them?
If that’s true, then this is a fantastic move by BC
By the way, Oberto and Rasho are both the same age almost. And for what i read here, Fabricio is coming back to the spurs. I rather have rasho, and rasho wants to be here. Oberto was waived by the pistons
the next move is to try to trade banks (or humps) for anything
If we give up another Draft Pick BC has to be slapped in the face.
+ 1
right.because sometimes tough decisions dont need to be made.
Also, I am not sure why no one has made any metion of this, but the Raptors have about $2.5 million worth of trade exceptions after the Solomon, JO, and Kapono trades.
If you assume that Denver would be willing to help out Klieza (since he is restricted, they don’t want to pay him, and he is close to the Denver owner), he could be involved in a S&T with the Raps after they sign Hedo. The Raps could offer to pay him $2.5 million for 3 years, Denver would sign him to the deal, and trade him to the Raps for their trade exceptions.
People the CBA isn’t that complicated. Read up on it, it makes for much more informed opinions on potential trades and signings!
meh, that sounds like work, and it’s much easier, not to mention fun for everyone, if we just scribble down whatever inanity pops into our heads.
as for the pick…as was mentioned above, if it takes losing a future pick to rid ourselves of banks & his other-wordly stupefying horrific traveshamockery of a contract, then that’s a bullet they should not just bite, but dig in on & chow down. yes, losing picks sucks, but the close to $10M that will otherwise be wasted on this monumental clusterfuck of a ‘player’ over the next two seasons will be worth it if he can be turned into something positive, even if that’s only cap space.
Exactly. Getting rid of the 4.5 + 5 million owed to Banks this year and next let’s the Raptors go out and sign Klieza (cringe) or Matt Barnes.
A second rounder (or at worst a lottery protected 2012 first rounder) is worth it if the Raps could use the Banks money to sign a couple of good vets to fill out the squad.
Jose
Demar
Hedo
Bosh
Bargnani
Evans
Klieza/Barnes
AP, Delfino Flip Murray, Von Wafer, fill in the blank back up combo guard.
That 8 man rotation is as good as any in the East outside of Orl, Boston, and Cleveland.
If making it to the second round isn’t “good enough”, I would like to remind everyone that getting to the 2nd round represents the GREATEST MOMENT IN RAPTORS HISTORY!!!!!
But hey, I am sure there are plenty of Raps fans that would love to be endlessly rebuilding. That’s always fun, let’s ask Golden State fans what its like not to see a playoff game in 13 YEARS!!!!!
I like what you said here. I would however want Barnes/Parker to start for DeRozan til at least January so he doesn’t get thrown to the wolves.
Raps fan, agreed. I would probably want say that signing Parker/Barnes and starting them at the 2 makes the most sense to let Demar get acclimated to the L.
But I just bought a Derozan jersey yesterday, and I have loved this kid since his days at Compton High, so my belief in his ability to make an impact is sky high. But yes, it probably makes the most sense to protect him a bit at the beginning of the season.
Anyway, my main point is that I don’t care for draft picks if it let’s the Raptors get a couple of young vets (like Barnes and Klieza) because they are better than what the Raps would probably draft in that spot.
The Raps are about 2 players away from a legit rotation that is in the second tier of the East, and is some internal improvement away from making some noise. If Barney comes back better than last year or if Bosh rises to a superstar level then the Raps could be sick (I think its infinitely better to hope for this outcome rather than pray for the Raptors to tank out, and somehow win the lotto for the next LeBron).
Young Money = Preacher
Raps Fan = Choir
The heat got a $4.2 million trade exception in that deal dude:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/02/13/heatraptorstrade.20090213/index.html
There is no way the Raptors got $6.7mil of trade exceptions in Solomon and Kapono trades, what are your sources?
Where did the $6.7 million figure come from?
I specifically stated that the total amount of trade exceptions that the Raptors currently hold is approximately $2.5 million (for the rest of this year).
If the Raptors offer Klieza a contract worth $2.5 million PER YEAR, they will be able to do a clean S&T as long as Denver is willing to do Klieza a favour.
Check out the ESPN trade machine for a list of all of the Raptors trade exceptions:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Kapono, Hassan Adams, Will Solomo, Moon trade exceptions = $2.3 million
Sorry, I wasn’t clear:
The HEAT got a $4.2mil trade exception in the Jermaine O’Neal trade. So for the Raptors to have a $2.5mil trade exception from the Solomon and Kapono trades, that means that they would have had to get a combined $6.7mil trade exception from those two separate transactions, but clearly that isn’t the case, my bad.
From the trade machine, it adds up to $3.2mil for all four of those guys. That should be a good enough amount to sign a solid player. Thanks for pointing out where to find trade exceptions, I was looking for that all morning.
The trade machine is a great source for trade exceptions, but its a little outdated in terms of salaries.
I think $3.2 for Klieza is way too much money, but he does fill a need, and has a lot of skills that the Raps like. I don’t like him though, and I would like to have Matt Barnes instead.
The trade exceptions are the key for the Raps to add one player in a S&T. Getting another combo guard is the biggeest concern. If Colangelo can pull off Hump for Dooling, I would be thrilled.
If the Raps can get the following bench:
Klieza/Barnes
Dooling
Evans
The Raps top 8 would equal to the Hawks, Pistons, Bulls, or Heat (I love D Wade, but the rest of that team is so bad, they start Jamario Moon for godsakes!).
It’s my understanding that Trade Exceptions cannot be added together.
I thought that trade exceptions can be used to make financially uneven deals for teams over the cap.
Can someone clarify? Can more than one trade exception be used in a deal?
I know that trade exceptions are NOT treated like free cap space, but can multiple trade excpetions be used in one deal?
According to the trade machine, trade exceptions can be used together, but not together for the same player, IE, if there are 3 players on 1 side, and 1 on the other, you could use trade exceptions on player 2, and another exception on player 3.
There is MY shoddy research of the day.
You can’t add trade exceptions together…
Young Money,
If “Dave” tells me this, re: the Dallas/Marion situation, my tendency is to believe him.
Who is “Dave”? He seems like he is quite knowledgable, but if you look my response to one of the earlier comments, I specifically state that the Raps have to receive ZERO dollars in return for a Marion S&T.
Ideally the Raps would be able to send out Banks to create additional cap space, but since that won’t be happening, my roster moves are based on potential moves that the Raps can make assuming they create NO extra cap space after inking Turk to his new deal.
Also, Dave’s comment that Turk will take up all of the additional cap space in Year 1 is bull shit. First, if the cap suddenly comes in at $70 million, then every team in the league would get an extra $10 million (unlikely). The most likely scenario is for the cap to come in at the same point it was this year. Meaning, that yes, Hedo would take up most (probably all) of the Raps free cap space. However, Hedo’s Year 1 salary isn’t tied to the amount of free space avaailable. Its just going to be around $9.5 million.
I think you are getting trade exceptions and cap space mixed up. Trade exceptions are what I would utilize to get Klieza in a S&T transaction with Denver (not cap space).
Young Money,
1. Dave runs nbaroundtable. Knowledgeable? Yes, I would say that’s an accurate description.
2. The Salary Cap is not coming in at $70.0 M. The Salary Cap is coming in at approximately $58.0 M. Dave operates with realistic scenarios.
3. I think I have a pretty solid idea how Cap Space and Trade Exceptions are different from one another. *smile*
Dave is on the ball.
Hard to believe “Dave” when he’s telling an NBA Expert, such as yourself (who surprisingly has a limited grasp of the CBA), that Marion to Dallas is non-sense and not possible, if the Raps want to sign Turk, even though it is with a third team involved (Mem or OKC)….and that Hump (your starting PF from last year) will be a non-rotation player on this team because Triano doesn’t like him and refused to play him last year (with a broken leg).
Dave knows allot but tends to be very Khanish when stating his opinions as “facts”.
Raptoronto,
Please keep in mind our posted policy on personal attacks and refrain from using them.
Consider this both a request and a warning to you.
We would appreciate your co-operation.
Thanks.
Facts shmacts….you can proof anything with facts.
Didn’t seem to personal to me :)
I read the CBA, it is both long and complicated. Well some of it anyway.
i know almost all of you might not like this, but i’m afraid we have to resign joey. we are currently short of wingmen, we only have hedo and dede. since we signed hedo, we had to dump AP, marion, delfino. i think joey would be the safest/cheapest option.
i know that we couldve drafted granger over him, but i think he can be a decent role player. i envinsioned him as our ‘mickael pietrus’ coz he is our best defender, and brings energy off the bench.
dousing self in gasoline.
you’re right, i don’t like that.
Joey Graham is the Pablo Picaso of the bball court. An average person can see some flashes of brilliance, but most of the time you don’t know what the fuck you’re looking at.
First, I haven’t heard that the Raps have officially renounced anybody. Turk’s agent says the Raps have until Thursday to sign him, meaning BC has two days to make trades to free up enough cap space that the Raps can sign Turk without having to renounce anybody (primarily Delfino).
Second, if Graham is on this team next season (let alone being counted on to be part of our main 10-man rotation) then I am officially off the Raps bandwagon and am going to start watching the WNBA insted! There is no scenario in my mind that can possibly put the Raps in such dire straits that Graham is in any way, shape or form a “good” option!
Anybody want to broach the possibility/probability of BC trading Bosh for several solid new players, thus rebuilding the team in one fell swoop?!
Everybody is saying that Hedo’s contract is handcuffing the Raptors, but can’t the same be said about Bosh’s contract??
I’m betting that Bosh will be gone sooner or later, and that Bosh has already made the decision to go in 2010 .. with only BC deciding if he should be dealt off sooner.
It’s a possibility, depending on who/what would be coming back, I am open to a Bosh trade, but my first choice is to resign him, and do it quickly.
Yes if this sign and trade falls apart how about:
Bosh/Banks to Lakers for Bynum/Farmar/L Walton
Bynum is still young with a HUGE upside.
Farmar and Walton are decent backups.
Bynum is a better fit with Andrea and maybe even Hedo
Wont happen but maybe a good move.
I can’t help but think Bynum is already on the way down and Farmar and Walton are only winners because they share the same logo on the front of their jerseys with Kobe Bryant.
I agree that a big rebounding centre would be a better fit with Bargnani, but Bynum still has some serious question marks.
Doug Smith seems to think it’s impossible. So, I think chances are good.
Please say something like this goes down
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=924198
No chance, No One, no chance at all. Orlando has zero incentive to do any kind sign-and-trade. Their GM has already stated publicly that he won’t do it.
I don’t wanna give RealGM the traffic. This is the post.
Raptors Trade:
S&T Shawn Marion 6,200,000
Kris Humphries $2,900,000
Raptors Get:
Conditional Second Round Pick (Likely never will see it)
Why this creates a trade exception of about 9,100,000 which should be enough for the later deal for Hedos starting salary. Doug Smith mentioned BC getting creative well this is as creative as it gets.
Dallas Trades:
Jerry Stackhouse $7,250,000
3 million Cash
Rights to Shan Foster (2008 Second Round Draft Pick)
= 9, 162, 500 (after X 1.25 + 100,000)
Dallas Gets:
S&T Shawn Marion 6,200,000
Kris Humphries $2,900,000
Dallas gets a big man in Hump that replaces Bass off the bench with them signing Gortat and they get Marion to add to the puzzle who can help with defense + rebounding
Oklahoma City Trades or Memphis:
TE
Oklahoma City Gets or Memphis:
Jerry Stackhouse $7,250,000
3 million Cash
Rights to Shan Foster (2008 Second Round Draft Pick)
Either team can use Stackhouse as a trading chip, he comes paid for and they get a second round draft pick out of it. He could be a useful trading chip so they can flip him somewhere else if they want but he comes paid for.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Now heres the creative part
Raptors Trade:
9.1 million Trade Exception
Conditional Second Round Pick (Via Marion S&T)
Orlando Trades:
S&T Hedo 9,100,000 (5 years about 53 million)
His contract would look like this:
1st Years: 9,100,000
2nd Year: 9,828,000
3rd Year: 10,556,000
4th Year: 11,284,000
5th Year: 12,012,000
= 52, 780, 000
Which is about the number that has been thrown around.
Orlando picks up a huge trade exception which they can use on acquiring someone which could turn out to be a useful tool. They take 0 salary back but can use this trade exception in acquiring a player of their choice.
Raptors keep their MLE, the rights to Delfino and Pops and would look very strong in the east. Their depth chart would be.
Calderon/Roko/Banks
Derozan/Delfino/Douby
Hedo/Klieza or Barnes
Bosh/Evans/Pops
Bargnani/Rasho/O’Byrant
Solid team and i think this is BC’s “creative” way of getting Hedo it seems to work for all teams involved. Let me know what you think.
It does NOT work for all teams involved, because Orlando is already at or above the luxury tax threashold and would not use the trade exception to take on another high priced player, which renders what they get out of it completely useless. Their GM has stated he won’t do it, not to spite Toronto or anything like that, but because they literally would get absolutely nothing out of it.
So here is an idea that hasn’t been floated yet…
How about sending Banks WITH Marion to the Mavs…for Stack and pieces (e.g Hump, Voskuhl, whoever) in return? The Mavs get the wing player they can’t acquire otherwise, the price being eating Banks’ contract (YUMMY!).
It would depend on how much Marion will settle for.
The Raps would want to take back equal or less salary than the difference between Banks ($4.26 mil) AND Marion’s contracts combined compared to Stack’s contract ($7 mil).
For example, if Marion signed for $5 mil (doubtful he would), $9.26 mil of salary would go to Dallas, and Stack’s $7 mil would come to TO. The Raps then pay the $2 mil guaranteed portion of Stack’s contract. Essentially, Bank’s $4.26 mil contract would be exchanged for Stack’s 2 mil guaranteed contract, which would free up $2.26 mil under the cap.
Cuban has been creative in doing trades…remember how he used Van Horn
in the New Jersey trade? And he seems crazy enough to take Banks with Marion. I’m going to call Cuban…
My only caveat is that I’m not sure if the above salaries of Banks & Marion would ‘match’ Stack’s salary under the arcane trade rules. Dallas may have to send someone else back (or a pick, or a trade exception (however the hell they work)) to get this to work. Maybe a sign-and-traded Gerald Green???
Or a third team comes in, and other players get involved (e.g. Hump).
i may be completely off-base on this, but i didn’t think that S&T’s could be combined? i.e. you can’t sign & trade marion along with another player, he would have to be moved on his own.
or am i out to lunch?
Regardless whether or not you can include another player in a sign&trade, the whole reasoning behind this proposed trade is to free up enough cap space to allow BC to sign Turkoglu without having to renounce Delfino (to resign), Mensah-Bonsu (to resign) and Parker (to either resign or sign&trade).
The Raps want to come out of this trade without taking on any salary – paying the $2M buyout for Stackhouse’s contract would itself count against the cap, meaning the Raps would only be saving the $5.25M ($7.25M salary – $2M buyout), which isn’t enough cap space to sign Turkoglu.
A third team with cap space allows the Raps to essentially give Marion away for nothing, other than freeing up a whole lot of cap space, which is BC’s goal in this sign&trade scenario.
PS: we can then still work to trade away Parker, Humphries and Banks in other moves, while still being able to resign Delfino and sign Turkoglu.
No no no…the Raps already have the cap space for Turk. What this trade essenitally does is rid Banks $4.26 mil for Stack’s $2 mil. Hence, it would save the difference of $2.26 mil between Bank’s and Stack’s under the cap (which could go to signing other players).
Again, it all depends if Marion would sign for the right amount to allow the trade to happen (Marion + Banks’ $4.26 mil = Stack’s $7 mil). The most Marion could sign for in this scenario, without involving other players, teams, picks, and/or trade exceptions would be $4.5 mil. Thus, the total going to Dallas is $8.75 mil, which is 125% + 100k of Stack’s $7 mil salary.
If Marion wants to sign for more, then TO would have to take someone back from Dallas. They could do so, but the amount would have to be equal or less to $2.26 mil, in order to preserve the cap space for Turk’s signing.
Perhaps Dallas could sign Delfino, Kleiza, whoever, and ship him back, but then thats doing TO a favour, and why would Cuban want to eat Banks’ salary then?
Sorry, but you are mistaken. No money has yet been spent on Turkoglu. Free agent contracts cannot be signed until Wednesday and Turk’s agent has given the Raps until Thursday, since it is in Turk’s and the Rap’s best interest to work a sign&trade to save cap space, so that the Raps don’t have to renounce their free agents or lose the mid-level exception, since both would leave BC in a better place to more effectively improve the team for this season and beyond.
Your points are in conflict as well, since the Raps lose the chance to do a sign&trade with Marion as soon as Turk’s signing is official, as they would have to renounce their rights to Marion.
Of course the money hasn’t been spent on Turk…but the Raps have it, provided they renounce their FA’s or do a sign & trade of those FA’s that would add no further salary prior to signing Turk on Thursday.
So the Raps do this deal on Wednesday, they don’t add any additional salary (in fact, they could shed some salary), and they sign Turk on Thursday. No conflict there.
If the Raps did take someone back for the full $2.26 amount (which would bring their salary right back to where it was when they started), then Marion could be signed and traded for $7.415 mil.
Here is the math:
To Dallas: Banks’ $4.26 + Marion’s $7.415 for $11.675 total
To TO: Stack’s $7.00 + Delfino/Kleiza/Green/XXX’s $2.26 for $9.26 total
The $11.675 is 125% + 100k of $9.26.
Stack’s contract is then reduced to $2.00, and along with $2.26 of salary the Raps brought back from Dallas, would be equal to the $4.26 of Banks’ contract they traded out.
Dude, just let it go, it’s not happening.
Marion will either do a sign&trade for more than $8M a season or just sign with a contender for the MLE.
No team will sign a free agent for another team, just so they can trade them to the team that wants them, in exchange for one of the worst contracts in the league.
The Raps would also be losing Delfino, Parker and Mensah-Bonsu if at trade goes through, since they’d still have to renounce them in order to sign Turkoglu.
The math works, but it doesn’t help the Raps and the Mavs (or any other team) would never do it.
Also, as somebody pointed out earlier, when doing a sign&trade, I am pretty sure you can’t package other players with the player being ‘resigned’. In this case, the Raps can’t package any other player with Marion in this type of trade (nor can they with Parker, if they choose to do a S&T with him).
Would anyone every wager a gamble on trading Amare for Bargnani/Marion? I know it takes away a future piece and gives us a player who could also abandon us in only one short season but could we all not drool over the propsect of the combination of toughness, interior scoring, defense and overall personality of a lineup that features Bosh, Stoudemire, Turkoglu, Derozan and Calderon.
I find that the games of Bosh and Andrea overlap just a bit too much and will not be able to work well and I’m well aware that Bosh may very well be out of here for that reason but many of us would prefer him over Bargnani and it would put him in a Pau-like position if we were to have both Turkoglu and Amare here around him. Our salary distribution would be absolutely terrible, but don’t all great great teams have that.
It’s just a thought. Not trying to offend, but Phoenix is in possible talks to take Marion back and ship off big salaries like Amare’s. Just saying, just saying.
Not a chance. Bosh & Amare are both PF and the Raps would be left with O’Bryant as the only C on the team. Amare’s eye injury scares me and his knees could go at any time.
Are you serious? You must surely be joking.
amare played 5 in phoenix when they had marion. so he can still play it.
Bosh and Bargnani are both PFs and Bargnani seems to take on the load of C duties, so I don’t think it is entirely impossible. That eye injury was a fluke that has already healed and Bosh also has knee problems. At least we’d have one guy on our team who would bring a little swagger and take the rock to the rim.
colangelo has done nuthin’ . ya hear me , nuthin’.
stop drinking his kool aid, axx kisser !
Wow. These comments….
looks like dallas fans and media have a huge boner for marion.apparently bc wants banks included in the deal.thus the holdup.
This trade would work, involving Banks and another team with cap space:
TO MAVS – Marion ($8-8.5M) & Banks
TO GRIZZLIES – Stackhouse & Shawne Williams & Raps trade exceptions
TO RAPS – Hamed Haddadi (maybe needed to balance GRIZ salaries)
The Raps would end up with about $9M in cap space to sign Turkoglu, while keeping the rights to Delfino, Parker and Mensah-Bonsu.
Wait…I thought this whole Marion & Banks to Dallas for Stack and other players was ‘not happening’…lol.
you guys really need to check out http://www.dallasbasketball.com. They’ve already broken this down with CBA rules and ramifications.
Bottom line, if the raps don’t s&t marion, they lose him for nothing. If they s&t with dallas, and possibly and 3rd team, then there’s savings and a little something in return.
I was just reading the Mavs blog article (http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/07/sticking-point-in-the-marion-talks.html), and a lot of commenters actually WANT Marcus Banks..like, honestly. They feel he’d be a great back up and is one of the best defensive point guards in the league…:s…:)
LOL that made my day
Mavs fans haven’t see much of Marion and Banks since they went East…if there’s a fanbase that can convince their owner to make a rash move it’s in Dallas…let us pray.
Shhhhhhh!!!!!!!
If Orlando wants Brandon Bass but refuses to do a 3-way (Orlando/Toronto/Dallas) sign-and-trade with him and Stackhouse (if it’s possible to do one with 2 players under the CBA), then Otis Smith is just being a dick. They’re losing Turkoglu to someone and have known that for a few weeks at least. They seem to have said they’re not matching Dallas’s offer to the Polish Hammer. Why not get something for those 2 assets? If Bass were to come on board for about 3 mil. in his first season they’d get a decent-to-good backup big and shed a bit of tax-inducing salary by waiving Stackhouse – i.e. they’d save themselves about 10 mil.. Dallas gets what they want and Toronto gets their exceptions/Bird rights to Parker and Delfino back. Win, win, win. What’s Smith got against that?
(of course, if they don’t like Bass that much . . . )
LOL. That is quite funny actually, Banks is always paired with Marion. Cmon man, sell this. If he pulls this off he will have extricated himself completely from all the wrongs. Yes, all of them. At the very least, you have to enjoy the prospect of starting a season without JO, Moon and Kapono .
ESPN is reporting the Raptors have reached an agreement in principle with Bargnani on a 5 year extension for $50 Million. Here is the link. At $10 Million, I think this could end up being a relatively good bargain for the Raptors.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4312517
No.
How did you get the last comment Khandor?