Get used to this, I’ll be asking/saying this phrase a lot this summer.Today’s recap:
Pistons
- Signed Ben Gordon to a 5r/$55mil contract.
- Signed Charlie Villanueva to a 5yr/$35-$40mil contract.
Dumars saved face with the whole Michael Curry situation by making a massive splash on Day 1 of free agency. Did he pay too much for Gordon? Probably, but he got himself a youngin who can score in buckets, is tough as nails, and clutch. Also, he scooped up our boy CV31, and signed him to a GREAT deal. Are the Pistons championship contenders? No, but they have a nice young core of Rodney Stuckey, Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Jason Maxiel, Aaron Afflalo, Amir Johnson with the likes of Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. Not too bad.
Grade: B+ – Retooling quick, but at a price.
Grizzlies/Clippers
- Clipps exile Zach Randolph to the Grizz for Quentin Richardson and calmer nerves.
Can’t believe they actually found someone who will take Zach and that nasty attitude/contract off their hands, but they did. Clipps get rid of a cancer, save some money, and clear space for Griffin to become the #1 guy on the right block, all in one move. Memphis on the other hand just made Thabeet’s life much tougher protecting the paint.
Clippers Grade: A – Franchise moving in the right direction…finally.
Grizzlies Grade: D – WTF????
Lakers
- Ariza wants more then mid-level, I’d give it to him.
Is he worth it? Maybe. Is he going to walk? Probably. The Lakers need to keep Odom before giving Ariza the big bucks. One of the guys I would target if I were BC, a younger Marion.
Grade: D – You keep this guy, no questions.
Blazers
- Flirting with Hedu, I like the guy, but not for $60mil.
Not a good move, could just be smoke/mirrors. Khandor breaks this move down better then I could. On the bright side, this whole thing has Fernandez pissed off, giving most of us something to talk about, even though some other GM will probably pluck him out of the air if he becomes available.
82 Raps
The Randolph trade is not as bad as it looks. The Grizz get their post player (but at a huge price)also puts less pressure on Thabeet to score right away. Its stupid in hindsight but it does have some benefits
If the Raptors are sure they can’t sign Marion (hes worth 7 mill a year for 2-3 years) then I would love if they want after Ariza. We will no doubt have to overpay for him but IMO he could be worth it. Just imagine having 2 young and athletic studs at you SG and SF spot. You wouldn’t see this coming at the end of this year
damnit marion make up ur mind…i would like to stay due to the way you compliment our perimeter bigs. so let’s quit rapping in front of the webcam and make a reasonable deal for christ sakes!
someone has to write about the fact that yahoo! sports is the best basketball source on the internet. they know about trades (shaq to cavs0 hours before anyone else and without continued support the website will probably go bankruipt PLEASE SUPPORT YAHOO FOR ALL OF YOUR SPORTS
+1
I used to think Yahoo was garbage but you’re right, it reports stuff pretty quickly and accurately. The first site I go to every morning is sports.yahoo.com/nba.
Just saw the ESPN video about Ariza looking around for a new team. Would we have to renounce the rights to Delfino, and Parker to get him? Because I’d offer him a 5 year $40 million deal right now if we didn’t. As well as Shawn Marion fits this team, I’d rather slightly overpay for Ariza and hope he gets better than slightly overpay for Marion and hope he doesn’t decline.
My plan for the raps is that if they somehow sign turk thenn keep bosh. they will have a line of jose, demar, turk,bosh and bargs, which can easieily compete with some of the best in the L However, if they dont sign tuk you have to trade bosh. personally i would take gerald walace in a second and switch the scoring load to bargs whom i really believe could score 20+ if he was given the touches and confidence(ex. not benching him after 2 fouls in the first q or even in the seceond att a\ you could have a line of jose, demar, wallace bosh and than sign someone for the 5… even better would be joe johnson though. he would score the fuck out of this team as he has both athlasim as well as skill, Bosh for Johnson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I usually like M Granges columns but trading Bosh for Andrew Bynum ?!? WTF
Milwaukee traded Fabricio Oberto to Detroit for Amir Johnson.
I’m not a fan of Gordon, crazy shots but bad choices on offense, which in the long run is more important imho; I can’t see Rip being happy with this roster, Joe Dumars has still a lot of work to do.
Yeah I’m not sure Rip and Gordon can co-exist. They both need a lot of shots but they get them in very different ways; Rip off screens and off-the-ball movement and Gordon off catch-and-shoot and isolations.
What Joe D should look to do is create a 10-man rotation, where the starters can be completely seperated from the bench, because they will be playing different types of basketball.
yeah what I don’t get is after the utter failure of the Iverson expirement in Detroit… why does Dumars chase another Iverson-esk player?
The Iverson experiment was never meant to last I think, he already had the playmaker of their future and had his eyes on freeagents for the 2 spot…Rip and sheed were already expendible last year, but it’s probably a 2+ years project. Or Dumars is crazy and fooled us with that nba title.
Now it’s interesting to see where Rip’s going; he’s not the kind of player that changes the fate of any team, but in an already competitive team, with a fitting system, he can be a factor, we all know his qualities, experience and fighting spirit.
No way Ariza is worth more than the midlevel…11 points and 4 rebounds in the playoffs, 8 and 4 in the regular season. He’s a nice player and a young vet for the midlevel, anything higher is bad business I think. I hope we stay away and spend that money to help get Marion, who we could apparently sign for that kind of money, who is a much better value (13 and 8.5 last year).
The old saying is never pay for a career year.
I would like Marion to shit or get off the pot,so we can get on with it!!!!
Ariza would be a great YOUNG asset to have ,not afraid to go to the rim and can also make a three…
I’m not sure about the “Lee” rumours,are we preparing for a Bosh exit?
We better be.
I am in agreement with the idea that Ariza isn’t worth more than the full mid-level. Ariza is a nice player, but I think the Marion comparisons are a bit premature. In terms of style, sure I can see that, but Ariza does not come close to providing the rebounding or scoring consistency that Marion provides. Ariza’s career season HIGHS in both statistical categories are LOWER than Marion’s career LOWS. If Ariza eventually becomes “2008 Marion” one or 2 years down the road, why wouldn’t you just pay Marion the same amount of money for 3 years and save 2 years of contract and $14-16 Mil?
If Ariza signs a deal in the area of 5 years for $8 mill/year, I think that would be crazy. Ariza benefited from having a great championship run with a great team, surrounded by great players, in a contract year. I understand that his age indicates that there is probably some upside to his game, but the idea that he will just continue to improve and eventually be worth $7-8 mill/year is foolish. To add some perspective Artest, Battier and J.R. Smith all made less than $8 mill/year last year. Smart money does not pay Ariza more than the mid-level.
Also, a guy that gets an inflated contract after playing 20-30 great games should be very familiar to Toronto sports fans, and I believe it is known as “The McCabe Specialty”.
I think what Ariza did in the playoffs is likely indicative of what he can do on a consistent basis for the next 10 years or so (with the exception of shooting 40%+ from 3, that’s an aberration). Provide great perimeter D, and capitalize when others put him in a position to score.
The Raps have bigger fish to fry than that. The guy is not creating any of his own scoring opportunities.
Unless Trevor Ariza is destined for Cleveland, IMO, he would be making a serious mistake by leaving the Lakers’ fold this summer [i.e. the opportunity to play beside Kobe, Lamar, Pau, Fish, Bynum, Walton, Vujacic, et al., under the direction of Dr. Phil].
Perhaps T-Ariza isn’t as bright a light as I’d previously given him credit for being.
Time will tell.
Turk said his favoured destination other than orlando would be Toronto, so maybe we could get him on a front loaded contract that decreases from 10 million a season, just as long as we don;t pay him a double figured salary 4 or 5 years from now, it would be a good signing
I know Artest says he wants to stay in Houston but why not atleast make an attempt at getting him. BC wants to add toughness and Artest would bring that right away.
BC chasing David Lee….. now thats what I like to here.
Ariza would be nice but not for 8 or 9 mil… need to prove you are worth that first.
Some of these alleged “overpayments” (Turk, Ariza, etc.) just have to be chalked up to the nature of unrestricted free agency (see: Lewis, Rashard and Contract, Max) That’s just the way this league (and all leagues, basically) work at this point. If you don’t overpay him, someone else will, so it’s really a matter of how badly you want that player on your team. Guys like Turk and Ariza specifically see their value go up due to playoff contributions, so they get overpaid. Part of the business. Very few teams sign guys that are known contributors to reasonable contracts, such as the one Villanueva has signed. Generally, the only players out there who are bargains, or even considered not overpaid, are guys who improve significantly after signing their contract. Then, at the end of that contract, they get overpaid. It’s a cycle you have to deal with if you hope to attract quality free agents.
For those saying Ariza shouldn’t get more than the mid-level, you are basing your opinion too much on stats and talent assessment and not enough on market value. Marcin Gortat is getting the mid-level. Does anyone honestly consider Gortat and Ariza to be on the same level? Of course not. Is Ariza, all precedent ignored, woth more than 5 mil per? Maybe not. But again I will say, to attract free agents that are going to have any impact on your roster, you have to be willing to “overpay” slightly. Especially when you’re Toronto, not New York, Boston, LA, etc.
Also, you can’t have it both ways. Many Raps fans have been all over BC to do something. “Improve the team this summer” we said. “Make a splash in free agency” we said. Then, we hear that BC is preparing to offer fairly big money to a couple of guys that would be legitimate upgrades for this team, and everyone is scared of the dollar figure. So what are we looking for, exactly? Impact FAs to come to Toronto for a discount? Not happenin’. If we want the team to improve this summer, we’ve got to be OK with BC offering these guys better contracts than they’re going to get anywhere else. That’s how you sign FAs, particularly in Toronto, where there has historically been issues with doing so.
The alternative is to not “overpay” for these guys (that includes Marion, who would likely still be considered overpaid if you compare what he’s looking for to what Charlie V got) and go into next season with essentially the same roster plus DeRozan and some mid priced FAs. So it’s “overpay” for someone and take a shot at being a significantly better team next season vs. don’t “overpay” for anyone, roll the dice on this same roster being more produtive next season, and then watch Bosh walk out the door if it isn’t. If I was making the decisions, I’d throw down what it takes to bring in a starting 3 (whoever gives you the best value out of Marion/Turk/Ariza) and take it from there.
Or you can take the other route which is to NOT follow what other teams are doing and create an affordable team for future years. Just because a players market value goes up (or atleast another team is willing to pay that price)… doesn’t mean he has to be signed at that price. Especially this year with very few teams with cap money (what 5 left now that Detroit is out?) Market value works 2 ways, both supply and demand. Demand is down this year (ie. less teams chasing players), plus the economy is hurting, thereby contracts could/should go down… its the very reason Boozer and Okur did not opt out of their contracts.
“overpaying” for players is risky business. It may benifit us for 1 year.. but hurt us for 4 or 5. Then again someone like Ariza may turn out to be a pimp and seem like a steal at that price.
That’s a route that the Raptors have been attempting to go down for a number of years, with fairly dissapointing results.
Look at the contending teams this year. Every one of them had a significant contributor that could be considered overpaid. Orlando (Lewis), Denver (Kenyon and Nene), Cleveland (Zydrunas, and just acquired an overpaid Shaq). LA is overpaying Bynum (to some degree…he’s still improving obviously), but the reason teams like themselves and Boston don’t have any overpaid FAs is because they were able to turn young players and draft picks into stars via trade. The Raptors don’t have that option.
Would I rather go the San Antonio route, building through the draft and adding reasonably priced FAs to fill roles? Absolutely. But the problem is that we have an All Star player ready to leave town next summer if he doesn’t see a commitment to contending and a significant improvement this year. So, unfortunately, we don’t have time to do that.
And I understand the idea that demand affects salaries, and I understand the idea that demand is down at the moment due to the economy and many team’s desire to have big cap room next summer. However, that doesn’t change the fact that Turk is going to get 10 mil from someone, Marion is going to get 8 mil from someone, and Ariza is going to get more than the mid level from someone. The demand is what it is, and the market for those three guys is pretty weel established at the moment.
I’m rambling…no one wants to read comments this long. My apologies
On the contrary, as long as you continue to write well, and make reasonable cases for your thoughts, feel free to ramble away. At least, in my opinion.
mine too. the comments (for the most part) are the best part of this site.
Mine, three. It’s the quality that counts most of all. Brevity and/or excessive length are equally over-rated.
Mmmmm Comments…Yum
Brevity can never be overrated
Yeah, the goods teams had players that were “overpaid”. The thing is they also had guys who were underpaid. Denver (although I think you can argue Nene and Kenyon were paid fair market value this season when healthy) (scratch Kenyon, he’s never been worth $15M) had Birdman & Dahntey Jones, Orlando’s best player is still on a rookie contract & Hedo’s getting a 50% raise (minimum), Cleveland has LeBron (who could take up 40% of the cap and not be overpaid). Also, how many non-playoff teams have overpaid dudes that are clogging up their cap and restricting them from doing anything? Clips (Randolph, B-Diddy?), Charlotte (Okafor), Bucks (Redd), GS (Maggette). It goes both ways.
The problem is that the Raps have no bargains like the good teams, so we aren’t in a position to overpay.
Playing the “player X got $5M so player Y must be worth $8M” game is risky business too. Of course you can always find some stiff who’s overpaid and then compare. That’s what agents are for. But nobody here can actually believe that Marcin Gortat is worth $6M/year. You point and laugh at teams that spend like that, you don’t follow them.
I also disagree strongly that Charlie V has a higher value than Marion. I’m not about to sign Marion for 5 years, but a 3 year deal for the same $$ I take Marion every time.
I agree with the points you made in your post. I would go so far as to say that the cost of an UFA is nearly entirely determined by market value and has very little to do with past performance, especially if that player is thought of as having large upside. (Tracy McGrady going to the Magic). However, it is up to a GM to decide if a UFAs market value is greater than, less than or at their actual value if that UFA was playing for that GMs team.
If players that fall into the category of:
“Player X was a key component of Team Y’s playoff success, he can do that here too!!!”
That player often gets offered more money than they would have if they hadn’t had a big playoff run. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to avoid that kind of overpayment if possible, by going another route?
The idea that “every UFA is overpaid so fuck it, overpay everyone” is a weak excuse for poor managerial decisions. The goal of every NBA team has to be performance > cost. That is how you win championships in the salary cap world.
Your very last sentence says exactly what needs to be done by the Raps, if they are targeting those three players (or any UFA for that matter); they need to sign the one that they perceive to be the best fit for the team for the best value possible. With the numbers that have been thrown around, I think that Marion at $8 mil, 3 years is better value than Ariza for $8 Mil, 5 years, and it is far better value than Turkoglu for over $10 mil/year.
TM Williamson,
If the Raptors would have simply drafted/acquired a talented young player like Derrick Brown on Thursday night they would have been able to take an approach which is not:
I. The Status Quo; nor,
II. Involving Seismic Tremors; but,
III. Gradual change and improvement based on the drafting of good players and the effective internal development of your own resources.
Swining for the fences is Fool’s Gold.
Doing what San Antonio has done and what Portland and Oklahoma City are now attempting to do … is the prefered way to go about building a top flight operation in the NBA over an extended period of years.
Patients is a key, coupled with first-class Basketball Acumen, good planning, decision-making and a Total Commitment to Winning.
Do you see THAT when you look at MLSE? [and the work of Bryan Colangelo, since Feb/2006]
I agree whole heartedly. You won’t see me standing up for the work MLSE and Colangelo have been doing, by any means.
As I said, I would LOVE to see Toronto start doing that. “Gradual change and improvement based on the drafting of good players and the effective internal development of your own resources”, as you put it, would without a doubt be my preferred method of building a team.
My statements regarding being cool with BC overpaying someone (and at this point, it appears to be Marion or Ariza, as the Turk deal is apparently off the table) were in regards to the fact that the Raptors likely need to show significant improvement this year in order to hang onto Chris Bosh, and if we elect to avoid “overpaying” anyone (ie not sign anyone whose market value is perceived as higher than their actual value) I see very little chance of this team making strides behind only the addition of DeRozan and possibly Delfino.
If Bosh walks next summer, by all means, sign me up for the blow it up and try to develop the team properly club. However, I think if we can hang onto Bosh, we can start trying to develop the team properly through savvy drafting and player development while retaining two very good players in Bosh and Marion (or, to a lesser extent now, but with more potential, Ariza)
TM Williamson,
I thought that you might be a supporter of the slow and gradual approach to organizational building.
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re: were in regards to the fact that the Raptors likely need to show significant improvement this year in order to hang onto Chris Bosh
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I don’t agree with this perception, however.
As far as I can tell, Chris Bosh has yet to say this, himself, anywhere.
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re: and if we elect to avoid “overpaying” anyone (ie not sign anyone whose market value is perceived as higher than their actual value) I see very little chance of this team making strides behind only the addition of DeRozan and possibly Delfino.
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Agreed, for the most part.
A 2nd solid young prospect, however … e.g. like Derrick Brown … who can step in and contribute positively almost right away, at a reasonable price, would have been another valuable add, IMO.
From my perspective, someone with the values of Chris Bosh will be more likely to:
i. Opt out on June 30, 2010;
ii. Test the Unrestricted Free Agent waters; and, then,
iii. Re-sign with Raptors … if
* There is a comprehensive, integrated and progressive plan in place that he can see clearly is quite likely to come to fruition during the Middle Stage of his career [i.e. 27-35];
and,
* He has full and complete confidence in Bryan Colangelo’s ability to get the job done in Toronto over an extended period of years.
Chopping and changing directions aimlessly will not convince Chris Bosh to stay with the Raptors long term; regardless how many wins the team amasses this season; nor should it.
Chris Bosh is a young man with a plan … who is focused on the things which he can control, and very capable of making necessary adjustments on the fly, as different situations present themselves, consistent with being a good basketball player, in the first place.
* If Bryan Colangelo panics and trades Bosh, that will reflect poorly on the Raptors GM.
* If Bryan Colangelo tries to low-ball Bosh, next summer, that will reflect poorly on the Raptors GM.
* If Bryan Colangelo is incapable of convincing Chris Bosh that the Raptors have a sound plan in place to help him accomplish his goals as a person and a basketball player that, too, will reflect poorly on the Raptors GM.
* If, on the other hand, however, Chris Bosh chooses to opt out of his existing contract with the Raptors next summer and then chooses to re-sign with the team, it will reflect very positively on Bryan Colangelo, not just in my book but across the entire NBA.
As an UFA next summer, if Chris Bosh should choose to re-sign with the Toronto Raptors then, not only will a fine young men like Demar DeRozan be highly interested in playing for the Raptors after being drafted by the team but, so, too, will other top flight UFA from across the NBA.
Pat Gillick and Paul Beeston showed us years ago how to go about building a World Championship Team in the Great City of Toronto, and it starts with the right owner, in the first place, then the right GM, then the annual draft, then the internal development of your own players, then the re-signing of your own big-ticket players, then the right head coach, and then finally the addition of select UFA or an additional marquee player via a trade to put your team over the top, when the time is right.
The fact is … it is so much easier to do in basketball than it is in baseball, that it isn’t even funny.
There should be no acceptable excuses for the Raptors to be anything other than one of the best run franchises in the NBA … when you have the resources of an outfit like MLSE.
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There should be no acceptable excuses for the Raptors to be anything other than one of the best run franchises in the NBA … when you have the resources of an outfit like MLSE.
————–
That right there is the BUT when talking about the Raptors. Colangelo can be the greatest GM in history, but if MLSE isn’t going to give him the right resources, it all goes to waste and it ultimately doesn’t matter who the GM is.
Unlike others, I do not think that MLSE is to be faulted for putting the financial squeeze on the team’s GM.
It is up to the team’s GM to justify to the owners of the team just how much more money they can make by following Plan X which includes the following list of expected expenditures, items i, ii, iii, etc., which will result in the following monetary windfall for the parent company WHEN the team wins the League Championship.
It is simply another red-herring to offer up the excuse that MLSE is unprepared to pay the piper to build a truly winning team when Richard Peddie says something like … e.g. “The Board of Directors has never refused to grant the Raptors GM permission to make any personnel move which he has seen fit in an effort to improve the team.”
The onus is squarely on the GM with the Raptors. It is his team to build as he sees best … come h*ll or high water. The buck stops with him, and whoever is directly responsible for hiring him, in the first place, and then holding him accountable when it comes to putting a Championship-Winning product on the floor.
Significant FAs don’t want to come to Toronto because they know the Ratpors are a deteriorating situation .. so why waste their careers on a no-win situation. Exactly why Bosh will exit the Ratpors, sooner or later.
BC needs a 3-5 year rebuilding strategy, and not just try to cobble a roster together in the hopes of reaching the eighth playoff spot.
Dude, get over Derrick Brown. I don’t know what makes you think he can step in and contribute immediately, but he’s not coming to Toronto so you can get it out of your mind. Let’s focus on some talent that’s actually played in the NBA at this point.
Macy,
It’s not me who will have difficult time forgetting Derrick Brown, if he should develop into the type of solid Wing player for the Bobcats down-the-road that would have been a good book-end for a cat like DeMar DeRozan, after Shawn Marion or Hedo Turkoglus is long gone from Raptorville.
What makes me think that Derrick Brown is someone who could step-in and contribute almost right away for a team in the NBA?
Making assessments of that type is part of what I happen to do, each and every day.
Time will tell … if I am right or wrong.
For the sake of Raptors fans everywhere, I sincerely hope that I am wrong about Derrick Brown.
I know if we atleast bought another draft pick, we can solve our back-up PG problem. The raptors then can put all their resourses and time for getting a solid SF
Would whatever PG we drafted late 1st round really have been better as a rookie than Roko will be as a sophmore? I don’t know…I don’t have any strong opinions on the matter, but I wonder if it really would have “solved” anything.
I would have rather got another wing (Sam Young or Derrick Brown) then looked to get a backup PG (maybe even resign Parker for that specific role). Mateen Cleaves is still available to my knowledge, he would be a great backup PG.
Just curious the “more of the same” business regarding BC and the Raptors. Do people believe this team needs a complete overhaul or just a few more peices?
A few things we need to consider:
1) the Raps did have a good end to the season (Marion started to fit, Jose was in good shape)
2) attracting FA to T.O is like pulling teeth… need to accept that the quantity or quality of FA is going to be limited
3) Is this the year to “rebuild” (if even needed)…. draft class weak, FA class poor, teams looking to 2010. I mean who even knows what 2010 will bring… there could be some major shifts throughout the NBA (conferences, divisions and teams)
4) Bosh factor
basically I’m trying to say what constitutes a “change” or major change for this team. Or at the very least what constitutes this year not being more of the same? I gotta say this team (outside of the core 3) is likely to look significantly different to what we started with last year. Is the cup half empty or half full?
1) I personally believe ZERO can be read into the late season surge the raptors had. They were playing in no-stress situations.
2) We have money, and there are quality FA’s who will come here. We may have difficulty in the premiere ones, but not the mid-tier ones (Hedu has said Toronto is a preferred destination).
3) The Raptors shouldn’t be rebuilding. Bosh and Bargnani are both under 26, so to say rebuilding is ridiculous in my books.
4) needs to be addressed, not sure how at this point in time (I prefer to sign him asap, but that isn’t going to happen).
more of the same is bringing back a player we let leave to europe, as well as resigning a player whom we can get a younger replacement (Ariza) at probably the same cost.
More of the same?
It’s been 24 hours and the only team to sign anyone has been the Pistons!
Take it easy with the negativity… it’s a bad habit of the site.
At least BC has been active… more active than I thought he would be…
I’m no BC apologist… but save you venom for something of substance… everything is still up in the air and it looks like BC will come down with something no one expected 24 hours ago.
I would not be entirely upset if Colangelo goes with the group he has signed, or will sign(delfino) and just saved all his chips for next summer. Fact of the matter is that its a much stronger draft next year, and there are alot more franchise changing free agents out there. Detroit just essentially took themselves out of the Bosh sweepstakes with their moves yesterday barring some other trades. If there was a year to trade for draft picks and cap space this is it.
The Raps pursuing David Lee rumours makes no sense…unless BC is preparing to trade Bosh. BC has already bolstered the front court, and signing Lee would allow him to trade Bosh for some quality wing players, draft picks, and/or back up point guard (hello Golden State). I’m wondering if these rumours are a sign that BC is looking at some Bosh deals…
If Kupchack offered us Bynum and Farmar for Bosh…would you take this?
it’s moot, bynum is a BYC guy, so there would have to be other pieces included to make the $$ work.
Zero, I would not take that deal at all.
If BC could land Hedo and Lee, he would trade Bosh for draft picks. Bosh is as good as gone, so his trade value is like vince’s .. very little.
BC is now desperately attempting to find bodies in anticipation of Bosh’s departure sooner or later.
No, I wouldn’t. The Lakers probably regret handing Bynum that massive contract and would’ve probably liked to split that money across Ariza and Odom. He’s got good/great potential but so far he’s too raw of a talent to be a centerpiece on a team that’s hoping to contend this year. Swapping Bosh for Bynum would be a step backward IMHO.
No.
And for the record…the Kleiza signing is a fantastic idea…and I’m not convinced at all that Turkoglu is a good idea. For my money, I’d make a solid run at Marvin Williams and try to pry him away from Atlanta. Yes, we’ll have to overpay, but get him on a long term contract and he will be a steal in the long run.
I like the idea of signing Kleiza a lot, if it is a possibility.
I would love to have Marvin Williams in Toronto. He is an athletic small forward, who will grab you 6-7 rebounds a game, shoot a decent percentage and play some defense. I’m not sure we can get him unless we do a sign and trade with Atlanta.
I’m with you brother/sister. Kleiza is the best bargain in FA I think. And Marvin Williams doesn’t get nearly the attention he deserves. I also like Ime Udoka as a bargain.
Can Marvin play any D?
If you like bargain hunting then a name to remember is James Singleton.
Marvin Williams is probably untouchable. The Hawks are really high on him, and are looking to move Josh Smith so they can resign him and Bibby.
How much do you think Kleiza could be had for? I am gussing a 3yr/$10ish type contract, maybe $12mil..
I think the 3yr/$10M is about right, I doubt he’d command much more than that.
Must now be apparent to everybody that Bosh intends to leave the Raptors sooner or later. That forces BC to rebuild the team now with some quality and then deal Bosh away for whatever he can scrape together … because he’s not going to get much for Bosh under the circumstances of his current contract.
Bosh is going.. going.. gone …. believe it.
This will be wonderful news when it happens. Not that he isn’t in the top 10 players in the league, but let someone else go for nothing with a max Bosh.
If BC gets little in the way of decent FAs, he will be forced to dump Bosh on the open market and hope for the best.
Bosh most certainly doesn’t want to play another season on a decrepit Raptor team that will diminish his 2010 max money hopes.
Ratpors are ready to go kablooey … believe it.
Kleiza has said according to grange that not only is Toronto number 1 on his list of destinateions. But that he is willing to wait for Toronto to “get its ducks in a line” as well. I agree, Kleiza would be the best value out of all the players mentioned.
remember when he dropped 30+ on tnt and reggie miller thought he was unstoppable, i like it…
At a 2-3 million per year pricetag Kleiza would be a great backup SF (and sometimes PF) but he does lack shape to his game outside of scoring – So dont expect him to start given the need for rebounds, steals and blocks…. If the money is right he’s great for our depth.
Oh and he cant keep opposing players in front of him….
The pistons get a B+ for overpaying for Ben Gordon and becoming a jumpshooting team with poor defense after getting Charlie V too? Ok there
+1
I feel like they are screwed no matter what they do.
1) Please do not get Artest. That would ruin all team chemistry. He will be the one taking all the shots in the fourth quarter because he thinks there is no better player to take them.
2) Hedo is not good defensively. Not what we need for such a steep price tag.
3) If we can trade Bosh for good wing players or draft picks, I would do so. I think everyone knows how overrated the guy is.
4) Kleiza sounds good.
5) Either Odom or Marion sounds good.
looks like Artest is going to the Lakers…Bye Bye Trevor !!!!
and Ariza 2 houston
Incorrect.
Incorrect? that Artest is going to L.A. or incorrect that Trevor will be gone?
Incorrect … that brevity can never be over-rated just like, its opposite on the spectrum, excessive length.
Khandor,speak f…. english please !!!
Speak english please !!!!!
Well, I thought it was looking ok until yesterday but now Bosh hits home, so you may be right. Trevor and Ron gone now. The added reason not to come here right now is Bosh, ie, what up with Bosh. Maybe we give away another season sitting on this. A max Bosh doesn’t win anything.
If “the Raptors are perceived to be a deteriorating situation” there is only one person responsible for that … and it isn’t Chris Bosh.
THAT’s the person who needs to fix the situation by doing his job better/properly, in the first place.
Targeting the wrong players and hiring the wrong people without a comprehensive plan in place will get you nowhere fast.
Bosh will extricate himself from the floundering Ratpors, sooner or later .. but he will be gone in 2010, and you can bet on that.
Bosh does not want to play on a continuously rebuilding Ratpor team going nowhere because US NBA players don’t want to come to Canada (except for the money as they end their veteran careers).
If BC fails to snag a couple of decent FAs, he might as well begin the rebuild NOW … starting with trading Bosh for whatever he can get on the open market. Reality is a bitter thing … but that’s how it is.
IYO …
Does DeRozan seem like an American player who dislikes Toronto?
Did Vince Carter seem to you like an American player who disliked playing in Toronto?
If the Raptors management had done its job properly … Mr. Carter would have been willing to play has entire career in Toronto.
The same goes for Chris Bosh.
——-
Drafted American players have no difficulty, whatsoever, playing for the Raptors. Those young men come with open eyes, like what they see, in comparison with so much of the nonsense in the USA, in almost every major urban center, and would be more than willing to stay, if the franchise operators would simply do a better job of building a solid team around them, in the first place … principally, by making an unquestioned Commitment to Winning, without which everything else simply falls apart.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
Draft properly. Develop those players. Re-sign the best. Keep building.
It isn’t rocket science … but, it does take considerable basketball acumen, a well-coordinated plan, and a LONG TERM COMMITMENT to WINNING.