Last week Chris Bosh was in Toronto attending one of his off-season publicity obligations. When confronted by a scrum of local media reporters he made two official announcements that came to no surprise to the Raptors fan republic or the greater NBA community. First, he announced that he would not be signing a contract extension with the Raptors this summer (even though Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo had previously expressed his intention to offer him one) and that he would be exercising his contractual opt-out clause next summer to become an unrestricted free agent for the first time in his career.
“I’m thinking I just want to stick to my goal, stick to what I was doing. That’s a part of the plan. I just want to address things (after) next season. There’s a reason why I did things the way I did them back then.”
When asked whether he would consider giving the Raptors a hometown discount next summer – the Raptors ownership group is infamous for running a very frugal yet highly profitable operation – his second announcement was that he fully expects to receive a maximum-salary contract from whichever team he decides to sign with.
“Without a doubt. I really don’t see any negotiation about that part.”
These informal announcements have been heavily discussed and subjectively interpreted by fans and media alike. The most popular topic of discussion was his maximum salary expectation. The Republic masses have long debated whether Bosh is in fact worth an equal salary as his more accomplished contemporaries such as LeBron James and Dwayne Wade, both of whom are undisputedly two of the league’s rarest breed of superstar players. While Bosh isn’t viewed as an NBA superstar, he has in is own right proven himself to be a perennial all-star player by his peers, as well as by the league’s echelon of coaches and executives.
Taking a quick survey of the league’s current talent pool, the present NBA reality is that there are only, arguably, 5 superstar players and approximately 15 perennial all-star players (established and soon-to-be). Given the fact that there are 30 teams in the league, these top-20 players are all categorized as being “franchise players” since any one team would be fortunate to have one of them under contract. (Observing the Los Angeles Lakers who have two of these top-20 players, Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol, it’s no surprise that they are making their second consecutive appearance in the NBA Finals and are two wins away from being crowned this season’s league champions). With only 20 franchise players in a 30 team league, simple economics dictates that the market value to acquire any one of these players is a maximum salary, regardless of the observed and accepted talent disparity between the league’s few all-stars and fewer superstars. Since Bosh is indeed a top-20 player it’s easy to understand why he expects to be offered a maximum-salary contact by a number of teams who’ll be capable of doing so, since nearly all of them are expected to aggressively recruit him. In short, the NBA’s free agent free-market forces dictates that perennial all-stars like Bosh be paid the same salary as superstars like James.
4-Time All-StarKnowing and accepting what Bosh’s market value realistically is, it’s interesting to review what course of action would be the most lucrative for him from a financial standpoint. Money has and always will be a key motivator for professional athletes. If money is Bosh’s primary motivation, in terms of maximizing his career earning potential, it would have been in his best financial interests to have accepted the Raptors contact extension this summer. Instead, he is risking the fate of his fortune against the odds of suffering a career-ending injury next season. Even though he has decided not to re-sign with the Raptors this summer, Bosh could still agree to re-sign with the Raptors next summer, and the team is capable of offering him a “full max contract” (valued at $133M/6 years) which would be worth more money and run an additional year longer than any other team’s max offer. However, the commonly used argument to justify leaving the Raptors for a lesser max contract is that he could make up the salary difference through his increased endorsement earning potential if he were with an American team for the remainder of his career. But this argument falls flat because Bosh’s endorsement earning potential likely wouldn’t amount to the approximately $16M difference between the Raptors full max contract and any other team’s max contract. (Let alone the $100M+ should he suffer a critical injury next season). By rejecting a guaranteed maximum-salary contract, it’s evident that money isn’t the primary motivation in Bosh’s playing career.
Perhaps the reason he’s chosen to reject a contract extension is to use the pressure of entering into a “contract year” season to work as hard as he ever has during this off-season to increase his talent potential and improve his athletic abilities in order become the very best player he can possibly be.
“I want to be like … LeBron. He’s fast. He’s quick and he’s one of the biggest guys on the court. I look at him and I’m, like, `Man, that’s what I want.’”
His desire to prove to the league and to himself that he is a “cusp superstar” and is legitimately worth another max-contract (instead of just being considered an all-star player who’ll get paid a max-contract only because the league’s free agent market will dictate it) is highly commendable and exhibits the leadership qualities expected from a franchise player. By making every effort to be the very best player he can be, it shows that he has the same mental motivation and willful determination as all the best and greatest professional athletes, past and present.
In addition to reaching his self-assessed player-potential and getting paid his full market value, another key motivational factor Bosh has that’s ingrained in every professional athlete is the goal of winning a championship. A divisive quote Bosh also made last week actually revealed the true perspective regarding his decision not to sign Toronto’s extension offer.
“An old school guy told me: ‘Take advantage. You can’t play this game forever. Make sure you maximize your potential.’”
By only skimming the surface of this quote’s meaning, the popular opinion expressed by both fans and media regarded it as an indicator that Bosh’s primary motivation is solely financial. However, it is my opinion that the true significance of this quote is much deeper and that its true meaning actually yields a clear revelation that Bosh’s definitive motivation is to win a championship. I formed my opinion by breaking the quote down for analysis. First, the principal meaning of “maximize your potential” isn’t just about money; if it were Bosh would have accepted the Raptors extension offer in order to guarantee his career earning potential, which he didn’t. Therefore this quote must have meant that he was advised to “maximize your [talent] potential” in terms of using your talent to achieve the highest level of success that reflects your talent. Now, when re-reading the first portion of the quote “Take advantage. You can’t play this game forever“, the essential meaning behind it was that as a professional athlete you might only have one chance in your career to win a title. That’s a powerful and lasting statement given the fact that he aspires to be remembered as one of the great players of his generation. Finally, who do you think was the “old school guy” who gave Bosh this advice? Elgin Baylor? George Gervin? Charles Barkley? Dominic Wilkins? Patrick Ewing? Karl Malone? It could literally be any number of people. But personally, I’m guessing it was Raptors Assistant Coach, Alex English.
Redeem TeamWhat is enlightening about the possibility that Bosh was given this quote by any one of the above mentioned players is the fact that all of them, including English, are Hall-of-Fame players who never won an NBA championship title. That’s a shame because every hall-of fame player that never got to win a championship title never achieved the highest level of success that reflected their talent and their dedication to their craft. There are countless numbers of such players in every sports hall-of-fame. Ask anyone of these players if they would have changed anything about their careers and they would certainly all say the same thing: That they wish they had won a league championship and experienced the ecstasy of celebrating the sweetest of all victories with their teammates, their family, the organization and all of the fans along the parade route through their team’s city.
Having completely analyzed and re-assessed Bosh’s series of quotes last week in reference to his announcements, we now have a better understanding of Chris Bosh and his motivations as a player. In actuality, Bosh simply reiterated last week what he has consistently said over-and-over again since last summer: He will do everything he feels he must to reach his full potential as a player and wants to give himself the best chance of winning a championship during his career by becoming an unrestricted free agent at the very peak of his career. The only opportunity a player ever gets to choose a team to play for is when he becomes an unrestricted free agent. Of course in Bosh’s case, the team he’ll choose to play for will have to have both the cap space to sign him to a max-contract and a legitimate chance to win a title with his addition.
There should be absolutely no doubt that Chris Bosh’s principal motivation is to become the best player he can be, to win an NBA championship and to get paid the princely sum he’s worth. Even though these motivations aren’t at all unique, what differentiates Bosh from many other NBA players is the strength of his character and the level of his intelligence.
Because Chris Bosh has treated the Raptors organization and the city of Toronto with nothing but the up-most class and respect since the day he was drafted, I sincerely hope he achieves his dream of winning a least one NBA Championship in his career, whether it be as a member of the Toronto Raptors or not.
141 Raps
Okay knowone can be a copy kat of Lebron james! there is only one Lebron, wade, or kobe. . . And if we look at big men the most dominate guy is Howard, in PG it’s Chris paul. . . But what’s different about these guys is their frame of body which is strong. . . The dedication shows on their body. . . Bosh wants to be like Lebron, we’ll see how much of his hardwork pays off. . . I personally think the RAPTORS should Trade bosh to either Goldenstate for RANDOLF, ELLIS, and 7th OVERALL PICK. . . and if u trade bosh you trade calderon as well for a draft pick and move up. . . Or another option could be to trade bosh to MEMPHIS for their second overall pick, take a guy like darko. . . And then trade the 2nd pick with the first overall pick and try to aquire BLAKE GRIFFIN (ofcource you’ll have to take on a guy like baron davis’s contract) whose frame of body clearly looks like NBA ready and has a better upside then bosh. . . If Colangelo moves bosh it could all depend on if he can get freeagents to come here. . . If not then he’ll have to use bosh as a chip to maximise what he has and rebuild again but better and fill in all the positions with solid players. . . I don’t know about you guys but i really don’t mind tanking this year, if it takes us one year to be a really good team. . . it could be possible and next years draft we target John wall. . . That’ll be an ideal scenerio
If Blake Griffin reaches his potential completely, then he will be a more athletic Carlos Boozer (He will NOT be the next Karl Malone), although I do agree that he will be much stronger physically than Bosh (and more injury prone).
Why take on a shitty Contract (Davis) and a shitty player (Davis) and watch our team get worse. If we have to trade Bosh,
I much prefer the Biedrins, Ellis and Randolph/bellinelli/turiaf for Bosh/Humphries, throw in Parker to make salary’s match. Trading for the second pick is even worse, as no other big man in the draft has even half a chance of becoming as good as Bosh.
Tanking is for bitches.
+1
Keep Bosh a Raptor.
“By making every effort to be the very best player he can be, it shows that he has the same mental motivation and wilful determination as all the best and greatest professional athletes, past and present.”
Bosh himself has acknowledged that he has hit a plateau the last few years – I view his desire to really hit the gym this summer a little more cynically, considering he could have done this much earlier…
Lebron saw Kobe’s workout regimen last summer and changed his approach to physical fitness and preparation. Bosh saw Kobe’s workout regimen last summer, changed nothing, played a full season and then decided it was time to hit the gym when he decided not to exercise his option and test the free agent waters. Hmmmm…
well, for starters, you can only do so much with the body you have. it doesn’t really matter what bosh does in the gym, his body will always be, shall we say, svelte? i’ve never gotten the impression that he’s the kind of guy who slacks off his workout regimen, and i don’t think anything that’s happened on the court would indicate such.
I disagree. Bosh and Garnett have similar body-types. There is no reason Bosh can’t workout and build as much muscle as KG.
first off, very well written article.
secondly:
‘If money is Bosh’s primary motivation, in terms of maximizing his career earning potential, it would have been in his best financial interests to have accepted the Raptors contact extension this summer. Instead, he is risking the fate of his fortune against the odds of suffering a career-ending injury next season.’
how true. why, if bosh suffers a career ending injury this year, he’ll somehow have to figure out a way to survive on just the tens of millions he’s already earned.
when you start getting into the absurd realm of money, the actual dollars don’t mean diddly squat – it’s all about one’s place in the hierarchy. for the most part, these upper-echelon players don’t care necessarily how much THEY make (since they’re all millionaires dozens of times over); what they care about is how much they make relative to the super-duper stars.
yes, bosh will be a max player, either if he re-signs with the raps, or requests a trade (sign & trade), or simply walks to another team (least likely). but the difference between paying a bosh max money & paying a lebron/wade/kobe max money is huuuuge. it’s not as though bosh isn’t ‘worth’ such a contract, but the difference between he & those others is that with the others, you build around each with lesser talent (even if it’s just slightly lesser), and with bosh, for the raps to take that next step, you also need a guy of equal (or greater) talent. yes, it’s possible to build a team with two max contract guys on the roster, but not overly realistic, at least not in this economy (or with these owners).
I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly compare Bosh to LeBron & Wade in terms of salary. Since player’s contracts are maxed out, you can’t say that any max contract reflects the ‘fair value’ of that player. If there was a salary cap but no player max, who’s to say that LeBron wouldn’t command 40-50% of a team’s cap? Then, if Bosh gets 25% of the Raps cap, is that unfair? Of course not.
Is Bosh as good as Wade or LeBron? No. But keep in mind, they may be getting underpaid based on their fair market value since their salaries are capped. So it’s incomplete to simply say ‘Bosh is worth less than Wade & LeBron’.
Regarding extension versus new contract after opting out, someone please correct me if you KNOW I’m wrong, but I think that the EXTENSION that Bosh could sign is simply that: an extension from his current contract which according to the CBA can only be 3 years (making it a 6 year contract) with the approx 10% increase per year allowed. While the NEW CONTRACT can be substantially more (i.e. 30% of the cap for 6 years with a 10% increase per year). And that is why Bosh wants to become a free-agent and is not signing the extension.
…and because Bosh wants that money, which he set himself up to be able to do, AND the Raps would maximize his return in a trade AFTER his has signed a new contract, AND I get the impression Bosh has no desire to “screw-over” the Raps, IF Bosh will ever be traded it will be after he signs his new max contract and maybe a year or two more in Toronto IF things still aren’t working out. If so, then he’ll quietly request a trade and still only be 26-27.
PS…I’m starting to really be in the camp of drafting Jonny Flynn at #9 and then buying a pick (say #21 from cash-strapped New Orleans) to draft Chase Buddinger, Terrance Williams or Sam Young. Thoughts?
I can see an argument for (yet again) trading away the Raptor’s 1st round pick for the right wing player.
For Sure!
What do you guys think of this trade:
Bosh and #9 pick to the Clippers for Eric Gordan and #1 pick and maybe Camby?
Agree with your “PS”. I think Flynn would be a nice fit, a feel-good story, and someone that would learn tremendously from Alex and Alvin. I think if we are essentially re-tooling for a run 2 years from now, he will be a perfect fit at that time.
Buddinger would be a nice addition. Young could be a darkhorse.
Do you envision him coming off the bench in 2 years or will Calderon be gone by then?
At least we’d have options. You could even make an argument to be playing them both at the end of games. Calderon is a great shooter and Flynn is a great penitrator/drive/dish kind of guy. I’m a huge Syracuse fan so I might be biased, but I’ve seen Flynn play a lot and by season end I’d bet I’d be perfectly comfortable having the ball in his hands at the end of a game with Calderon on the wing ready to shoot if Flynn decides to pass it to him. I don’t think he’ll ever be an All-Star (who knows), but I’m positive he’ll be a great leader, and someone that WANTS to be in Toronto who fits that mould can’t be a bad pick-up. And man he has a very quick handle!
Maybe you mean to put the two of them on the court when we have the ball and we’re down by a few points. But I’d be concerned the minute the other team gets the ball. For one thing, we’d have Calderon trying to guard the other team’s 2 which is pretty much nails on the coffin right there. How’s Flynn’s defense? Flynn might be quick, but at the end of the day I still see a short guy.
Flynn is quick enough to compensate I think. But time will tell. Calderon just needs to compensate by “shining up the Gordie’s” (that’s elbows in case you haven’t seen SlapShot…haha). Toughen that guy up. Make the offensive player think twice about attacking….oh wait…that’s just what I do in men’s league to compensate for my lost vertical and lost quick feet….haha
Great article. Very clear and well argued.
Thanks for all the compliments everyone. :)
I enjoyed the article but my understanding (or perhaps misunderstanding) is the same as Rye – the contract extension could have only been for three additional years. If our understanding is correct, he “maximizes his potential” by waiting for a six year deal, with only 2009/10 to prove himself/not get injured. If he took the three year extension, he would have no way of ensuring he got another big money deal after that contract is up.
would the extension kick in after 2011 (the ‘real’ length of his current deal, sans opt-out), or would the first year of the extension replace the last year of his current deal, with opt-out factored in (i.e. start in 2010/11)?
a 3 year extension would expire in ‘13 or ‘14, when he’ll be 29-ish, and still, barring injury, in his prime; if his career continues along the same path, he’d be in line for one last big contract. now, a lot is unknown given the uncertainty that will arise once a new CBA is hammered out; it may well be the case that there simply won’t be as much money available to FA’s after the current agreement expires, which means it makes even more sense for guys to sign for as much/as long as possible before then (which is probably the main motivator for him opting out next year & getting a new contract then, as opposed to signing an extension now).
I think most of these players are just weighing risks, the same way that Carmelo was the only class of 2004 guy that took the full deal when James, Wade and Bosh signed their shorter contracts. I always wondered his motivation – thought maybe we would find out about some chronic injury that could shorten his career. For Bosh I can imagine that playing one big, potentially risky year with a payout of six highly lucrative years afterward, is probably more enticing than the thought of three years of proving himself, and then hoping that someone is still ready to award another big contract. This list http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm is loaded with cautionary tales that might have teams rethinking how many years and dollars they reward slightly older players. Maybe at 29 Bosh doesn’t land the big six year, max contract deal.
Ah yes, you are right in that a likely new CBA after next season is what has driven next years free-agent class into existance.
This is exactly the case. It is reason #1 you have high grade free agents next year. It’s their last chance to make huge money and get a long term deal before any possible restrictions from the new CBA.
Maybe replying to myself is like Andrew Bogut high fiving imaginary teammates, but I have to add that while it is cynical to assume that the primary motivation for any player is money, and not to perform at the highest level and win championships, you have to assume that many of these high calibre players know that the odds of winning a championship are low. If Barkley, English, Malone etc, never won championships in a smaller NBA, the Arenas and Joe Johnsons of the world must know that in today’s league the odds of even a “franchise player” winning a championship are very low. I guess my point is that “wanting to win a championship” is probably in the mind of every player, ‘franchise’ or otherwise, so looking at it as a players motivation is kind of moot.
Very good point. And I know it’s hard for us common folk to think in salaries of millions, and we all think what’s the difference between 100 million and 130 million. Who cares right? But it’s probably not too too different from us in our own jobs. We all want to paid relative to what we perceive our worth is, especially relative to our colleagues. If some dude is making more than you at your work, and you know you work harder and do a better job, you likely want to make more than that person. It’s a matter of respect and appreciation. Furthermore, I know that I for one, would take less money to stay in a job that I was happier in and felt I had a better chance to excel and where I liked the people I worked with, over more money at another company that’s maybe even in another city were I’m pretty sure I won’t be as happy (or at least am uncertain). Unless of course you NEED the more money…you know, like Latrell Spreewell did (haha)
It’s all relative to the person, and the profession of course. But if Bosh is happy in Toronto, and doesn’t HATE the way the team is headed and all the people he works with, all else being relatively equal he’ll probably prefer to stay in Toronto especially when more money is involved so that he can hire multiple staff members to keep him up to the minute on twitter!
James [realizar],
IMO, that’s solid interpretation of who Chris Bosh is … and, what that specific quote actually means. Kudos to you, sir!
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re: “yes, bosh will be a max player, either if he re-signs with the raps, or requests a trade (sign & trade), or simply walks to another team (least likely). but the difference between paying a bosh max money & paying a lebron/wade/kobe max money is huuuuge. it’s not as though bosh isn’t ‘worth’ such a contract, but the difference between he & those others is that with the others, you build around each with lesser talent (even if it’s just slightly lesser), and with bosh, for the raps to take that next step, you also need a guy of equal (or greater) talent. yes, it’s possible to build a team with two max contract guys on the roster, but not overly realistic, at least not in this economy (or with these owners).” – by yertu
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#1. IMO, this sentence in bold reflects a type of circular thinking.
i.e. Kobe, Lebron & Wade are the three best players in the NBA, therefore, each of their teammates would be considered a “lesser” talent, unless he is one of these three. Anyone else, who is a Foundation Player on a team but not amongst this elite group of three, therefore, is someone who MUST have an “equal or better” side-kick on his team, in order to have a legit shot at winning a championship. The problem becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy … if you are someone who happens to think that only these three players are, in fact, Franchise Players, deserving of Max Contracts AND that only teams with Kobe, Lebron & Wade can win the NBA Title, any given year.
If you take a thorough look at The History Of This League, however, what you should/will be able to see is that EVERY TEAM which has ever won the title has had Quality Depth … i.e. a Collection of Outstanding Players with individual skill sets that complement one another … AND an unyeilding commitment to the concept of TEAM SUCCESS, which includes first-rate Coaching, a Top Notch GM and an Owner who wants to win.
Saying that a High End Player, like Chris Bosh [C} … who excels in all three main phases of the game, as opposed to just one or two … isn’t “good enough” to “build a championship-calibre team around” is simple hogwash, when you look at The History Of The NBA.
#2. If one of the REAL problems this team has is the ownership of MLSE, then THAT is what needs to be changed … instead of directing ill-informed blame at a first-class player like Chris Bosh.
I know this is pointless but . . .
That history of the nba link you inserted totally refutes your point (if you had one). It simply lists all the teams that have won the NBA title. Chris Bosh was on none of those teams (unless he played for the ‘50′51 Rochester Royals – I can never remember their roster)
Other than Detroit and Boston every one of the Championship teams of the past 20 years had a top 5 player in the NBA. While I agree with your assessment that the teams need depth and dedication throughout the organizations, simply glazing over the fact that 95% of the recent NBA champions had guys like Jordan, Wade, Duncan, Shaq and Kobe is a little foolish.
Yes but even each of Boston and Detroit had 3 (and arguably 4) all-stars. Even Orlando this year has 4 current or former all-stars. So you either need a top 5 player +1 other top 10-15 player. OR you need 3-4 allstars with solid role players. Obviously if this were easy to accomplish….well lets just say you need a bit of luck as well. If there had been a Lebron out there the year we won the lottery we’d be debating about how many games it would take teh Raps to win the Finals right now.
I don’t know man, I think I’m more likely to agree with yertu than you on this one although I’m not quite sure what you’re saying.
Everybody’s in agreement that Bosh needs a player that is equal if not better than him to have a chance at a title but the hurdle that we encounter is both financial and attracting that second or third player.
Bosh is a good player, but I think his value is inflated to the point where I believe Colangelo can swing a deal which can get two good players by giving up one. That might be our best way of bringing in a dual threat to Toronto rather than just hoping Shawn Marion learns to create his own shot or we strike it big in the draft.
Also, talking title is pointless. You have to crawl before you can walk and our short-term (1-2 year) goal as a franchise should be to win two playoff rounds. It’s loser-mentality but its realistic. Even if we get better by leaps and bounds, it doesn’t mean other teams will just idly stand by, especially the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs etc.
If we can increase our resource pool by trading Bosh while increasing the overall talent on this team, we should do it. I’d rather have three players on the team who are 7/10’s instead of 1 player who is an 8/10.
I agree Arse. Realizar you kind of lost me here. Seems to me you’re reading into Bosh’s quote quite liberally to reflect what you wish you heard. His answer was in response to a direct question about whether he felt he deserved a max contract. If I remember correctly, the reorprte followe up with “so there’ll be no hometown discount. and Bosh said “politely, yes.” His company is called max deal technology, for a reason. I mean I suppose you could say he wants to go and play with Lebron, rather than sign here too, and be just as credible as your analysis.
Sure players at Bosh’s level get max deals, but how often is it a good idea, or does it work out for the team who signed them? Kapono gota full mid level, should we give Parker the MLE? and by signing a guy like Bosh to that deal, Is there not reason to suspect that by doing that we ensure we will not reach our ultimate goal?
Hey EastCoast, I disagree. Bosh quote was a follow-up response about getting a max contract, but the meaning of the quote given to Bosh by the “old school guy” definitely has deeper meaning in Bosh’s context since he’s guarenteed to get a max contract. Since Bosh won’t have to negotiate the salary amount of his next contract, he’ll only have to negotiate which team to join, which will be based on his assessment of who will have the best chance to win a title with his addtion.
With regards to the he merits of whether the Raps should or shouldn’t re-sign Bosh, that topic was intentionally outside the scope of my article.
Personally, I think Bosh and Colangelo are both playing “poker politics” by saying all the right things for PR purposes. It’s possible that Bosh has no intentions of re-signing (because he doesn’t think he’ll be in a position to win a title here) and that Colangelo has no intentions of pay him a max contract either (which is indeed his market value). Either way, if Bosh wants to “maximize his [salary AND talent] potential” he could do so through a sign-n-trade.
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If we can increase our resource pool by trading Bosh while increasing the overall talent on this team, we should do it. I’d rather have three players on the team who are 7/10’s instead of 1 player who is an 8/10. – by Arsenalist
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The way to increase the talent on a team is not to trade your best player. What that’s called is, “Cutting off your nose to spite your your face.”
The way to increase your talent is to trade your 2nd or 3rd or 4th best player … who other teams might covet for some [inexplicable?] reason … and get back 2 [or more] assets in return, that your trading partner has under-valued for some reason, e.g. not seen fit to use them in their proper roles to this point in their career.
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Those who look back at the history of this league and stop at the 20-yrs ago mark do themselves a disservice. The History of this league goes back further than that and there is more than “just one way” to build a championship team … e.g. the 1960’s, 1970’s and to a certain extent, even the early 1980’s were filled with terrific teams that did not a “SuperStar” at their core. Indeed, there are those who see the way the game is being played and think that it harkens back to this earlier era when the league championship was dominated, first, by a single with a slew of “good” players who played “great” together and, then, a succession of “really good” teams who took turns winning because there was tremendous parity across the league, as a whole.
It’s not an either or situation when it comes to the composition of the best teams in the NBA, on an annual basis.
The best teams have Quality Depth. The also-rans do not.
You can have one of the two most talented players in the world today on your team AND still lose out in playoff basketball to a squad that has a BETTER collection of individual players and superior coaching.
“the 1960’s, 1970’s and to a certain extent, even the early 1980’s were filled with terrific teams that did not a “SuperStar” at their core.”
An argument could be made that with the way NBA players are aggressively marketed today (blame Air Jordan) compared to how they were marketed in the past, there were NO superstar players back then.
There were plenty of great players, sure, but I’d be willing to bet there were no big names that were recognizable worldwide like Lebron, Kobe or Yao Ming today.
The great players back then made a name for themselves by winning, and winning alone.
You contradict yourself. On the one hand you say trading away your best player is absolutely unforgivable, and on the other hand you argue that championship teams are not made up of one great player, but a collection of good players that are well coached, have depth, etc. You are preaching that there is a hierarchy of talent that must be maintained (don’t trade your best guy), while claiming that teams that hold to this hierarchy are not going to win championships.
There is a specific hierachy within a successful organization that starts first with identifying correctly who your best players [performers?] are and then not trading those few … i.e. in a futile effort to increase your Quality Depth … but building around them, as the foundation for the team. When you deal away these Foundation Players it disrupts the entire process … as much as it does to be wrong in your initial desigination of which players are in fact the best ones to begin with. In general, trading away a “best player” sinks your team to the bottom of the NBA.
Building a “Team Success” ethic in an organization is perfectly consistent with having Foundation Players, who buy in to what you are about [at least, if that "about" is Winning!], and then getting additional players with high end talent to feed into that existing structure.
Those who are already familiar with the way in which an elite unit functions will not have any difficulty in understanding what it is I’m saying here.
“Those who are already familiar with the way in which an elite unit functions will not have any difficulty in understanding what it is I’m saying here.”
You continually employ the same flawed rhetorical device on this site “If you understand things as I do, then you will understand what I’m saying” and yet you rarely address the actual arguments that people are making.
Because I’m a glutton for punishment I’ll address two of your arguments – trading away your best player generally sinks your team to the bottom of the NBA – you are absolutely right, but there are just as many instances where keeping your best player, with no plan intact and no prospects also sinks your team to the bottom of the NBA. Taking chances can pay dividends. Is Philadelphia better or worse for having traded Allen Iverson – you can’t just look at it short term.
You also say
“Building a “Team Success” ethic in an organization is perfectly consistent with having Foundation Players, who buy in to what you are about [at least, if that "about" is Winning!], and then getting additional players with high end talent to feed into that existing structure.”
An ethic of “team success” is only ever applied to a team after they have already won, so keep on picking the horses after the race has been run if you want.
The last three East-based NBA champions (Pistons, Heat, Celtics) all won the title after they made significant lineup changes. Each of these teams were a shrewdly assembled collection of talent. This was opportunistic on their part, not a long drawn out masterplan. Your argument makes no room for luck, which in sports is huge!
1. It’s not “flawed rhetoric” at all; it’s a statement of fact. The individuals who understand my comments best of all are those with an extensive background in the game. Unfortunately, many Raptors fan who are active in the on-line community do not fit into this category. There are fundamental differences between looking at the game from an “everyday fans” perspective and someone who is familiar with how it works “inside & out”. Just because there are certain individuals on this site, and select others, who take offense to what I say doesn’t mean that there aren’t countless others who do not, whether they agree with my take or not. In my experience, the ones who correspond with me via email, or exchange ideas amicably in different comments sections on blogs/websites/etc. just so happen to be former [or current] high level players, coaches, and administrators.
2. If you pay closer attention, you might be able to see that a good portion of what I do & say on-line involves “making calls on events PRIOR to them actually happening” not with the benefit of hindsight.
3. It’s when I say that something IS a certain way, in advance of others being able to see it for themselves, that the “proverbial” shooting starts. Fortunately, I am someone who is “well-equipped” to deal with those situations.
4. re: Team Success ethic
A well-trained eye can frequently tell you in advance which individuals and organizations are displaying the signs of THIS prior to that success being recognized by the general public, e.g. see what Mike Moreau [sp?] observed recently about the current situation with the Ok City Thunder.
5. re: line-up changes for Detroit, Miami & Boston
None of those three teams improved enough to win their respective titles by trading the “best player” on their roster.
Understood, but…
There seems to be considerable disagreement about whether or not Chris Bosh can be considered a foundational player for a championship-calibre team.
Personally, I believe that he could be, but he needs to be more competitive both on and off the court for that to happen. And, of course, he needs a better supporting cast.
How many teams of the past 50 years have won an NBA championship without a top 50 all time player? In the NBA playoffs, the team with the best player wins most of the time.(unless there is a large disparity in the supporting cast)
Exactly. None…and many have 2.
I disagree with the stance that a team should never trade its best player if it wants to improve. Teams can improve as a group by trading their best player if said team is near certain that at least one of the players they receive back in the trade will be a better fit with the team and will eventually become better than the player they traded away in the first place.
I definitely understand the logic of improving the overall talent and depth of your team by buying low/selling high on the rest of the roster, but drastic moves sometimes need to be made for a team to make the jump to becoming an elite team.
You can’t possibly disagree with the notion that when the Detroit Pistons traded Jerry Stackhouse to Washington for Richard Hamilton at the end of the 2002 Season that;
a) Jerry Stackhouse was without a doubt the Pistons best player in 2002 (he was only one season removed from averaging almost 30 ppg); and
b) Making that trade not only improved their team (along with other personnel moves of course), but helped push that team to a level of success in following seasons that never would have been achieved with the core of players they had at the end of the 2002 season
Chris Bosh is tradable, despite the fact that he is the best player on the Toronto Raptors by a wide margin. It all depends on what the team gets back.
re: Detroit trading Jerry Stackhouse
When you look at the Detroit Pistons [50-32/.610/1st Central] changing roster from the:
2001-2002
to the
2002-2003
season, what you should be able to see are several key differences with the Raptors [33-49/.402/4th Atlantic] and their situation with Chris Bosh.
What if the Raptors traded Bosh the season after winning the Atlantic Division? I’m sure you wouldn’t have endorsed that move (few would have).
msmith gave a perfectly good example of a team trading it’s best player and winning a championship shortly thereafter. There’s no more to it than that.
Everyone is wrong sometimes. Yes, even including me.
The Magic traded their best player in Tracy McGrady and ended up ok. Detroit traded their best player in Chauncey Billups. NJ traded Kidd and Jefferson, arguably their two best players. Philly traded Iverson. Clippers traded Elton Brand, their best player. Lakers traded Shaq.
Plenty of examples of teams trading their best player to get more pieces.
If memory serves correctly, none of those teams’ “best players” were traded to increase the Quality Depth of their roster.
Trading your “best player” to accomplish THAT goal is, “Cutting off your nose to spite your face.”
—————————————
“Also, talking title is pointless. You have to crawl before you can walk and our short-term (1-2 year) goal as a franchise should be to win two playoff rounds. It’s loser-mentality but its realistic. Even if we get better by leaps and bounds, it doesn’t mean other teams will just idly stand by, especially the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs etc.” – by Arsenalist
—————————————
“Talking title” is always THE POINT … regardless what stage of development a team is in.
“The Best” organizations are continually, repeatedly, consistently planning and working for Success … right from the word, “Go!”
Just because your team happens to “not be there” does not mean that the organization should ever think in a way which is inconsistent with The Way A Champion [Actually] Thinks.
A champion starts at the end … and, then, works backwards from there, never losing sight of his/her goal. – Anonymous [khandor]
wow khandor is dumb…dont you get it.bosh doesnt want an equal or better baller on this team.it lessens his value.thats why you see bosh hold the ball 7 seconds and take the majority of the shots.he dont wanna share the rock,it might make somebody else look good.thats why bosh didnt want smitch fired,smitch was helping bosh get paid and get accolades at the expense of the team.bosh isnt making anybody on this team better because it hurts his earning potential.he wants to be the best player on this shitty team because its the only way he can get his max contract…..he is not the player you build around.has bosh ever made a teamate look good/better than him…….remember kids,bosh didnt enhance anybodies game therefore he didnt enhance anybodies earning potential….he just wants to get his.
That’s preposterous. Suggesting Bosh plays his way for selfish purposes, rather than what makes him comfortable, is a ridiculous jump. He’s a highly efficient offensive player, he plays the way he will maximize that efficiency. Look at the players that’ve played with Bosh here, and where they’ve gone afterwards. It’s not like they exploded when they left here, many of them peaked while in TO. You can credit Mitchell or the collection of players, but to blame anyone just inflammitory.
Whatever the case may be, both Bosh and the Raptors as a whole would be significantly improved if he could get his assist totals up.
I won’t try to conject as to his motives, but he sure as hell needs to pass the ball more.
Hard to get assists when everyone just stands around and watches when he has the ball.
‘…I’m not quite sure what you’re saying.’
i think that IS the point…
What I like about Bosh nakedly dismissing he would sign for anything less than the max is that this declaration cements he will sign the max deal with whichever team holds his Bird rights.
If the Raps decide to keep him they simply need to write a big check.
If the Raps decide to trade him the other team should feel secure they are going to be able to sign him. This should keep his trade value high.
Worst case is a team with enough cap space in July 2010 tries to work a sign and trade. I assume Raps would come out better than the T-Mac deal.
Wooo my kind of post. This is my opinion so don’t even reply just read my comment and scroll along lol
His ego is far beyond where he is. He’s a wannabe celebrity but he has no charisma, no social skills, everything he does seems forced and really, from what I have heard, he’s rude to people at clubs and on the streets. I wouldn’t pay a penny to get this guys autograph or to buy his clothes or his music.
He’s trying to become the next Dennis Rodman but he just doesn’t have the ” It ” factor. He coatailed his way to an Olympic gold medal and wanted to be in the same class as Kobe and gang. Then the guy goes to the media and says he wants to be an MVP this year. But after 3 games he gives up and we don’t make the playoffs and he starts calling out the fans. That’s no leader.
Since he’ll get us the better return then yes you should trade him for a Good 2/3. He can then go on a new team and bring them down to 15th place like he has since we drafted him.
Oh and Bosh: We’re not paying you 15 Mill to make music and make appearances at Malls in the offseason. Work on your game. Your not Rodman or Shaq you haven’t won anything in your career. You have not earned the right to have the ego that you do.
“You have not earned the right to have the ego that you do.”
I could not agree more.
Take a pill guys….does anybody tell you what to do when you are off.
Agreed. Although I think that he thinks he’s better than he is, and I find his twittering related stuff annoying (and possibly immature), having a well-rounded life that includes great training as well as other things that interest him is very important to his (or anyone’s) mental health and over-all development and happiness. Which will in theory make him a better player and happier employee. There are A HELL OF A LOT WORSE players out there than Bosh and we should be happy to have a guy like him as the face of our team. He’s still young and I’m much rather how our young stars doing what he does on his time off than getting wasted, hanging with the wrong crowd and/or shooting guns off in stripclubs.
Yeah. On paid speaking engagements he’s there because he has to be. He will never say hi to little kids or wave to the crowd or anything like that. He wears these flashy suits and has this arrogance about him. lol Like dude, you haven’t done anything.
I know when I was in Miami last year Dennis was very kind to everyone and taking pictures with my 12 yr old cousin and he enjoyed doing so. Same with Shaq. The way you can grow your brand is treating people nice and then they will come to you. But Bosh does not have the basketball talent nor charisma to be that person
…Yet.
He’s just 25. He’s still learning how to be a man. He’s not a malicious or bad person.
Yotube a Quinton Rampage Jackson or a Matt Serra those guys are hilarious and have great camera presence. These guys win in their sport and are likeable people.
You forgot the quotations around “sport”.
Marc it is a sport lol
Is Slamball a sport?
MMA is a sport.
jesus…..
Many people still don’t consider MMA a “legitimate” sport. The Ontario athletic commission still refuses to sanction a MMA fight/UFC event in this province.
This isn’t really the time or place for this argument, but I love it anyway.
MMA as a whole is too new and too unstandardized to be considered a legitimate sport. In time, maybe, but definitely not yet.
it’s sports entertainment, just like wrestling.
I wouldn’t go that far, but as Jack would say it is somewhere “betwixt and between” a real sport and sports entertainment.
Comparing government sanctioned martial arts fights to staged bouts between professional wrestling actors. Wow.
are u retarded?
lol
You know your not all that good when a not yet drafted Blake Griffin is calling out Bosh LOL And no, it wasn’t because he respects Bosh and wants to face him so he can learn a few things form him. It’s because Blake knows he can shut him down and wants to prove it.
Alot of people don’t like Chris.
Where did Blake Griffin call out Chris Bosh?
Cosa BS. It never happened.
Nice article, but can Bosh just cut his goddam hair NOW!!! It’s growing into Brian Grant or Mikki Moore territory, and they are not very good players.
lol
His head is way to small for his body. Remember how he looked when he was first drafted?
Bosh has that hair to make it appear that his head is proportioned, to give it more ‘body’.
On the funny side, I was home sick from work on Tuesday and flipping through the channels when what do I come across? Family Feud – NBA Players vs. Their Mom’s! And who was the captain of the NBA players? Chris Bosh! Apparently it was filmed in Nov 2007. The players were Bosh, Grant Hill, Dwight Howard, Cuttino Mobley, Richard Jefferson and David Lee.
*lights self on fire….*
Naw man, Bosh was HUGE in the bonus round.
What’s the big deal if he was on Family Feud?
No big deal. Just thought it was funny. And I’d like to have heard the conversation on how his agent told him about being on The Feud. Perhaps something like this:
Agent: “Yo Chris. ‘Sup?! I tried texting you like a thousand times yo! I have some great news!”
Bosh: “Oh ya, sorry man. I was busy kicking Cabbie’s ass on Madden 07″
Cabbie (in the backgroud): “I love you Chris Bosh.” (as he plants his extended fingers on Bosh’s chest and nuzzles his head under Bosh’s chin)
Agent: “Cabbie’s there and you didn’t call me? WTF?! Anyhoo, are you sitting down? Are you ready for this?”
Bosh: “Ya I’m sitting down, I’m always sitting down. What is it? Did LeBron add me as a friend on Facebook?!”
Agent: “Sorry, not yet. Maybe tomorrow. But THIS is better! Are you ready….wait for it….”
Bosh: “Yes yes….”
Agent: “You have been asked to be…”
Bosh: “Oh man…”
Agent: “…The captain of….”
Bosh: “OMG! Captain of the Olympic team?!!!!”
Agent: “No better! Captain of NBA Players vs Their Mom’s on THE FAMILY FEUD!!!”
BOSH: “HOLY SHIT! No Way! That’s the #1 show in Texas AND Kentucky! Cabbie, I’m gonna be the capatin of NBA Players vs Their Mom’s on THE FAMILY FEUD!!!”
Cabbie (muffled because his head is burried in Chris’ lap): “Can me and my man D and my man B be part of the team?”
Bosh: “Hell no. You can’t even score on Madden. It’s me and Lebron and Wade. We’ll take those bitches OUT!”
Agent: “I’ll take that as a yes. I have to call Colangelo and tell him your resume has just been upgraded! It’s max contract FOR SURE now in 2010!”
Bosh: “Yes! OK I’ve gotta update my Facebook status!”
…or something like that.
Couldn’t find enough “dads” …???!!!!!
Ouch! Funny!
Speculative fiction of the day (SFOTD!)
Just saw your comments on an ESPN article (Kapono trade), REPRESENT the RR, kinda,…Brrrrruppp!
Wow. Even on game shows he’s the best player on a bad team.
i know you’re just being humourous, but best player in that group? really? i honestly don’t see him as ‘better’ (at least not significantly) than AJ (well, to clarify – i don’t see him as being THAT much better than AJ that he’s worth literally twice as much $$ come ‘10), and i’m not sure you’d win an argument that he’s ‘better’ than D12 either, though he has fared well head-to-head; better offensively, but dwight’s got him rebounding/defending.
my bad, saw ‘jefferson,’ didn’t realize it was richard & not al.
no problem
lol
Well back then the 2007 Bosh was in the middle of our 47 season and Orlando was last in the E so Bosh was a better player at that point. Now, Dwight kills him.
You make a bigger ass of yourself with every ensuing post.
Nobody seems to be talking about the high risk of signing Bosh to a max contract and the consequences when he suffers a career-ending injury. Surely BC must be thinking about that potential risk when you have $30M tied up in one player and he goes down … what happens to the Ratpors then???
If I owned the Ratpors, I would eschew max players and build a team of highly paid athletic blue collar team bballers and enjoy that entertainment. As for all the tribal honking jerk-offs who need a “hero” to howl over I say … FOAD
Ha…that’s because we talked about it yesterday.
Where …???!!!!!
About half-way down yesterday’s long blog.
But anyway, I agree with you. I don’t mind the max dollars for Bosh at the beginning of a max contract, but after 6 years of 10% increases and wear/tear on his body and probable plateau-ed skillset, the END of that contract is a scary thought. That’s why I think signing him then maybe trading him in a couple years might be the best possible scenerio.
Since when is bball about winning? If a max-contract player suffers a career-ending injury the insurance company covers the cost. ;)
Okay .. but what’s left on the Ratpor’s playing payroll … a bunch of poorly paid scrubs ..???!!!!
We may never win as many games as the Washington Generals, but least they’ll all be fan favorites. ;)
The Raptors payroll would go to hell should Bosh suffer a career ending injury. Just like any other team who’s max contract player suffers a similar injury.
Well, except for maybe Rashard Lewis ….
until they go hat-in-hand to the league.
Rashard Lewis suffered a career-ending injury?
Ex. Grant Hill’s max-contract signing with the Magic in 2001.
*Historical note: the Magic signed both Hill and TMac to max-contracts that same summer hoping to replicate the Jordan/Pippen pairing.
who would you rather have on the Raps Monta Ellis or Ben Gordan?
MONTA!! NUFF SAID!
Gordan now, Monta in 2-3 years.
First time poster, long time reader. Love RR. Great Info, Better discussions.
Found an interesting article about Bargs, and how he is the guy we are building around.
http://www.tosports.ca/?p=5045
I hope we trade Bosh to G.State.
Randolph/Biedrins/Marco B./#7 for Bosh and Banks
7- Take Tyreke Evans
9- Johnny Flynn
Trade Calerdon to Portland
Jose for Outlaw/Blake/#24
24- Take Lawal or Hansborough
PG- Flynn/Blake/Roko
SG- Evans/Marco/AP
SF- Randolph/Outlaw
PF- Bargs/Evans/Lawal or Hansborough
C- Biedrins/Hump/Jawai/O’Bryant
Thats a solid, young athletic and deep 15. Would love to move our backup C’s to acquire someone of substance..Maybe Rasho??
Thoughts?
Hey Eric, thanks for the props. :)
The GSW trade proposal you mentioned is too one-sided for the Warriors to accept in exchange for a 1-year rental player in Bosh. I think including Randolph is a deal-breaker for GS.
As for the Portland trade proposal, I’m intrigued and undecided. There are too many unknown strategic factors at play (from a outside perspective) right now for the Raps to agree to that trade.
Bosh will be traded this summer if he doesn’t accept a reasonable extension and holds out for max money in 2010 as a FA .. plain and simple.
So DeRozan is working out for the Wizards but might not for the Raptors. I guess his agent’s cut is after taxes.
So what’s the deal with Derozen? is he the next stiff upper lip Steve Francis/Gerald Green that is refusing to work out for the Raptors thus sending the vibes that he doesn’t want to be drafted by them?!
DeRozen is refusing to workout against other prospects. His agent is only letting attend individual workouts. On the other hand, Evans has said he’d workout against anyone anytime.
Evans >> DeRozen
I’ve switched my tune to Evans over DeRozan as well.
Evans will be scooped before Derozan
So the mocks are now saying….but they say a lot of things that don’t pan out
bosh talk the talk of a superstar, but doesn’t act like one.
he won’t improve this summer. why? he never improved before…he’s stagnant
plus, in this last yeat, he won’t risk any major injury…
let others pay him maximum money…I prefer a winning player
I like Chris Bosh but:
Phoenix is trying to save money.
Toronto is trying to build a great team.
Trade:
Toronto sends: Chris Bosh, rights to Carlos Delino or a sign and trade with Delfino, Joey Graham (sign and trade), Marcus Banks
To Phoenix for: Amare Stoudamire, Jason Richardson
Why Phoenix would do this: Quite simple they want to save a lot money over the next 2 years, by sheding J Richs 13 millionish contract. If the Raps were to sign J graham to a 1 year contract only, they would two expiring contracts in Graham,Humphries and Bosh of course and have only Banks 4.8mil on the books in 2 years.
Amare is unlikely to stay and by trading him for Bosh they save some face depending if they traded Shaq which I am sure they will try they would have a team like this:
Nash
Barbosa
Hill/Barnes
Bosh
Shaq
and a below average bench which would should be upgraded but most likely would not due to them trying to conserve money they could get a rotation player in the draft as well.
Why Toronto would do this: Getting Amare to go with Andrea would be a much nicer inside/outside fit (I love Amare) I would take him over Bosh personaly any day if both healty which they both are not always. Phoenix would insist J rich being in on the deal which sure he is overpaid but he is still a starting SG or at worse a solid 6th man (on the Raps he would start and be an upgrade at 2 hopefully)
Toronto could look like this
Jose
J Rich
Marion
Andrea
Amare
Call either (Andrea/Amare) a center or PF we all know on offence Amare would be inside and Andrea out.
Bench
Rasho
Evans
Solid draft pick (Evans, Derozan, Flynn, Curry, Etc)
Parker
Ukic
F.A
I think this trade or something similar could be constructed this offseason maybe we have to flip them first round picks hopefully not.
One error when discussing this trade I said Humpries I meant Delfino but it could be either or but basically the deal would be Bosh + fillers for Amare + JRich.
The key is some of the fillers have to be expiring contracts thus the sing and trade most by one year deals only. Like Joey Graham would say no to a 3-4mil one year deal.
The key is some of the fillers would have to be one year contracts in order to appeal to Phoenix (Joey G)
opps repeat coment sorry.
I think that we have such a hard time keeping our own players is that we over hype them. Our best player HAS to be the face of the franchise, world class player and gets marketed that way – even if they are not that good.
I thought when Vince left this would stop. The whole Pistons team concept was in vogue and CB seemed so humble and team oriented – I think he still probably is. The media and the team have him branded as the cornerstone of the franchise. If you call him that, you have to pay him max deals. Cue the debates over whether Bosh is worth the max.
I don’t think the Raps will ever be a team that spends into the luxery tax. As such, we will only be able to afford one superstar and surround him with strong role players – think AI’s Philly days or even LBJ’s Cavs today. Problem is, we don’t have anyone that superstarish – they only come around once every couple of years. The number one pick won’t get you one this year, nor when we won the lotto.
Unfortunately, again, I still think this all points to trading Bosh – hopefully then we can build this whole team approach. Pay our PG less than 9, Pay our C less than 6, Pay our SF less than 7, but still have quality starters in Jose, Bargs and Marion.
Trade up in the draft and get the starting 2 we need. Harden or Evans, in that order, would fill a need for years at a reasonable salary.
That means we would still have a few $$$ to throw at a starting big to play beside Bargs. Even if we only spent half of what Bosh would cost us, that would still buy us a very useful big. Sheed, Wilcox, Anderson, Lee, etc could all be had this off season for well under 10.
Again, if we do trade Bosh, I do think it is important that the franchise doesn’t simply force a non superstar upon us. The next Raps superstar for me is the one that wins me some playoff games. I don’t want to pay anymore Olympic team superstars, I want to pay Raptor superstars.
Trade Bosh for Amare!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amare’s not as good as Bosh, and he can’t see anymore
85% import, post 2010, i know its hard to accept, but there is no other way.
Raptors would love to dump Banks contract.
THe Hump may now be expandable due to Reggie Evans trade.
If I said we get a decent back up PG for these 2 with the salaries and years remaining on all contracts being equal we would all agree this would be a good move I am assuming. reasonable people so Khandor not included.
Trade:
Raps send Hump/Banks to Pacers for Jamal Tinsley.
Ok I know he is a head case but maybe he has learned his lesson after being banished last year. I actually think he would be a good backup and at times outplay Jose.
Do we want to pay a backup PG 7 mil a year for 2 years? off course not.
But the fact is we have Banks at 4.5 this year and 4.8 next and Hump make 3 millish therefore the salaries work.
Could backfire and he could be a cancer so you banish him and you lose Hump for basically nothing so its a gamble but could be a good one…
Pacers basically get Hump for nothing because there stuck with Tinsley 7mill contract and he is not going to play for them. Banks just gets passed around like a fat three paper…Puff Puff Pass mother fucker…
It would take some cajoling, but the Pacers would bite eventually.
I like it. I hope Brian Colangelo reads this blog.
kaine says:
Jun 11, 2009 at 5:20 pm
bosh talk the talk of a superstar, but doesn’t act like one.
he won’t improve this summer. why? he never improved before…he’s stagnant
plus, in this last yeat, he won’t risk any major injury…
let others pay him maximum money…I prefer a winning player
—————
Agreed. 6 seasons and he wants to improve his game now? Why, because he wants to show off for other teams and wants a huge paycheck, not because he wants to help the Raptors. He’s a loser anyways I hope he gets knocked on his ass next year by Griffin.
boozer and brewer for bosh
bargs
boozer
marion
brewer
calderon
let bosh go hawk his cd’s and be a fake ass celebrity in utah….bosh underestimates the stardom and off the court earning potential he has here in toronto.in any other city hes a fucking nobody.
Five percent fact. Ninety five percent speculation.
Scott.
Honestly theres a lot of factors that go in before we give bosh an extention for the max and thats if he deserves it. . . If the team sucks as a whole there is no use or extending bosh, rather we should use him as a chip to get more pieces back meaning GRIFFIN!!! You know the guy has character not that bosh dosn’t but money can make anyone have big smoke dreams! Griffin seems like a character guy, why not snatch him, I would not take micheal beasley which was the purposed trade out there. . . The man is 6′7 which is small for a PF and Griffin is 6′10. . . Honestly i don’t see him becomming like a lebron, wade, those are completely different types of play. . . What is bosh gonna play sg? Come on! Something will fail with the raps, weather its chemestry, or rookies not stepping up to the challenge, delfino experiment failing. . . Or some big name getting injured. . . Why risk paying max when you can not rebuild necessary but retool with using bosh as hopefully calderon as a chip in the draft. . . I WANT GRIFFIN! ! ! And no i don’t want boozer because bosh is way more valueble then boozer, i think griffen will be better then both . . .
Honestly theres a lot of factors that go in before we give bosh an extention for the max and thats if he deserves it. . . If the team sucks as a whole there is no use or extending bosh, rather we should use him as a chip to get more pieces back meaning GRIFFIN!!! You know the guy has character not that bosh dosn’t but money can make anyone have big smoke dreams! Griffin seems like a character guy, why not snatch him, I would not take micheal beasley which was the purposed trade out there. . . The man is 6′7 which is small for a PF and Griffin is 6′10. . . Honestly i don’t see him becomming like a lebron, wade, those are completely different types of play. . . What is bosh gonna play sg? Come on! Something will fail with the raps, weather its chemestry, or rookies not stepping up to the challenge, delfino experiment failing. . . Or some big name getting injured. . . Why risk paying max when you can not rebuild necessary but retool with using bosh as hopefully calderon as a chip in the draft. . . I WANT GRIFFIN! ! ! And no i don’t want boozer because bosh is way more valueble then boozer, i think griffen will be better then both . . .
Long time reader, first time poster.
I don’t think Beasley being 6′7 and Griffin measuring out at 6′10 is a big deal, in fact when you look out at their wingspan in comparison to each other, its a moot point.
Beasley measured out at 6′8.5, not quite prototypical PF height but when you consider what he brings to the table as a player, it evens out.
Height w/shoes Wingspan Reach No Step Vert Reach Max Vert
Michael Beasley 6′ 8.25″ 7′ 0.25″ 8′ 11″ 11′ 5″ 35.0
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2008&sort2=DESC&draft=15&pos=4&sort=
Height w/shoes Wingspan Reach No Step Vert Reach Max Vert
Blake Griffin 6′ 10″ 6′ 11.25″ 8′ 9″ 11′ 5″ 35.5
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2009&sort2=DESC&draft=15&pos=4&sort=
When you factor in Beasley longer standing reach, longer wingspan, nearly equal verticals despite probably assuming Griffin is a better athlete, Griffin’s 2 inch height advantage is a wash and is negated with his average wingspan and reach.
I think the comparison is apples and oranges really, as they will both in the future be 20 and 10 players in the L.
might as well throw hansbrough in there as well…
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyler-Hansbrough-288/
Can we trade Cosa Nostra,
Khandor can have that “I’m better than you attitude”
But this guy takes the cake,this site is not intended for call outs!!!….take your 45k and your almost mba (from York ) and walk.
Please.and thank you.
Dude, why do you resort to inviting physical violence when someone doesn’t agree with you. You insult other people all the time, so learn how to take it when you say something that you must know is ridiculous
I understand just as well as you understand how threads work
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