27 May 2009

Watching the Nuggets with the Raptors in mind

As the playoffs continue and team after team falls by the wayside, the cream slowly rises to the top which gives us a better and better view of the wide gulf between our team of choice and those still playing basketball. Take the Nuggets as an example, when you compare their build and composition to the Raptors it quickly becomes an exercise in comedy. The strength, skill, passion and experience at each position is so much greater than the Raptors that the 39-point blowout in Denver seems something you’d expect rather than be surprised about.

As much as we’d like to compare Carmelo and Bosh that’s hardly where the reason for the difference in success. You have to start with the wings, more specifically their ability to penetrate and slash. Dribble penetration is an acid that can destroy any defense and Chauncey Billups brings it by the barrel. From the Raptors end, nobody brings it. Well, maybe Roko Ukic, but a drive without an eye for an outlet is like flashing food to a starving Ethiopian kid and not giving it to him. Everything the Nuggets do is spawned off dribble penetration via Billups, Anthony and J.R Smith, two of whom are capable passers while the other one doesn’t mind finishing over anyone. An agile and motivated triumvirate like that is the starting point for a great team and they don’t just stop there.

This is a sport where hustle and aggressiveness is rewarded more than in any other and the Nuggets have that base covered. When they pack the frontcourt with Kenyon Martin and Chris Anderson, it puts our counterparts of Kris Humphries, Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Jake Voskuhl to shame. Really, to shame. I actually have to step back and wonder how in the world our roster got filled with so many players who contribute little to nothing, and I haven’t even touched on Banks and Kapono. When you’re a hustle guy and you don’t hustle you become an absolute liability on both ends of the court, that’s so far been the main problem with both Humphries and Pops. For example, Humphries might to a good job of crashing the glass in the second quarter but when you put him on later he’ll take a jumper or fail to box-out or do something that he’s got no excuse for doing. Pops had some big games this year which were followed by performances where he was invisible, I’m talking 0-9 with 3 rebounds type games where he looked disinterested. If your hustle guys aren’t bringing it then nobody on the team will. I don’t recall Birdman or Nene playing like that.

Comparing our “star” players with theirs is a moot point. It doesn’t matter how good Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani are, we’re just so out-matched in every other area that two of Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon would have to have monster games for us to have a fighting chance in the fourth quarter. It also doesn’t help that our two best players are perimeter-oriented big men, reflected nicely in our fourth worst “inside points” ranking. The Nuggets are #2. Stats can be misleading though, the point that I want to make is that when you have big men that are constantly making the defense shift and work by going to the rim, forcing help and recovery, it not only creates shots for others, it also takes a physical and mental toll on the defense which is an intangible that comes into play in every fourth quarter. If you’ve played competitive team basketball in any sort of setting you’ll know what I’m referring to.

More than anything, the rosters speak of two different team-building philosophies. The Nuggets have got tough players (Nene, Birdman, Martin) to go with proven veterans (Billups) who can be relied on in the clutch. They’ve recruited athleticism (J.R Smith, Dahntay Jones) and to top it off they’ve got a young athletic wing scorer that can manufacture his own shot. If you had a checklist on how to make a team everything would be ticked off for the Nuggets. The knock on them over the years has been their discipline and effort, but this year they’ve got that missing ingredient sorted out thanks to George Karl. For the most part, J.R Smith is likely to take a 30-footer on any given possession but even he’s learned to use his raw athleticism and shot-making ability within a team concept. They’re a team that have great tools and are figuring out how to use them, while the Raptors can’t figure out how to use their two tools in a manner which will yield success.

When I watch the Raptors I can sense and feel our inferiority on every possession. I’m sitting their waiting for Bosh to bail out the defense with a jumper, or for Calderon to get beat at the top of the key, or for the offense to get stagnant without anybody being there to bail them out. We’ve got a flawed team whose philosophy has become trying to run and net easy points on the break, and teams only do that when they know that pound-for-pound they’re lacking in the half-court set, which is still where games are won and lost. And that will never change. It’s almost like we’re looking for a short-cut to success rather than building a team piece-by-piece by investing in draft picks, smart long-term free-agent contracts and trades.

There’s definitely a need for a team to have a certain philosophy which takes into account their strengths and weaknesses which they’ll try to exploit and hide as appropriate, but run ‘n gun is probably the hardest of them all to have success with. Simply put, the components that constitute a successful running team are rare commodities. A pushing PG with great vision, rebounders who can outlet, slashing wings that have the stamina to do their thing for 48 minutes, great three-point shooting, a defense that causes turnovers etc. This ain’t exactly easy to do. I much rather go the Nuggets route and build a conventional NBA team which has more than one tooth and can adapt to whatever the other team’s playing.

I think Steve Kerr finally recognized this in Phoenix and tried to add another dimension to the Suns by trading for Shaq, things didn’t work out and it was a bad trade to start with, but give the guy credit for recognizing that his team wasn’t going anywhere. Colangelo tried to first supplement his running team of 06-07 by adding Kapono, it didn’t work. Then he recognized the need for toughness and rebounding which would come at the cost of sacrificing break opportunities and he acquired O’Neal. Then he decided that he’d reignite the 06-07 formula and added Marion into the mix. He’s trying to recreate Phoenix in Toronto but the parts here are of lesser quality and to make matters worse, good ones are very hard to find.

@raptorsrepublic

84 Raps

  1. Ted says:

    you had me till you spewed the same dumb bullshit thats colangelo is trying to recreate the suns and have phoenix north,thankfully it was the last line or so.great read but its dumb its stupid and referring to it needs to stop….we do have a dork soft bitch as our #1 player and no team in the history of the game or any pro league has won a title with a pussy like bosh….it all starts there.

  2. David Moro says:

    Arse, some good points there.

    But look, we have what we have. Sure, going tough and athletic never hurt anybody, but remember, that Denver team sucked forever until it got Billups. It starts and ends there. The confidence with which he runs a team and the constant threat he puts on defences really helps.

    Yes, they have more depth because their albatross contract (Martin) decided to suit up this year because they were good. Yes, they have way better wing players. Yes, we need to get more athletic. But there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

    If somebody told me last year that Denver could get washed up Iverson for Billups I’d have laughed in their face. I’m serious. One trade can make that much of a difference.

    They lucked into a great trade and are having a great season.

    All of a sudden the Denver thuggets became something wonderful:

    Martin hasn’t been healthy for like 5 years and miracualously went without injury this year. He also can’t shoot for crap.
    JR has been on the chopping block for years and only just “kind of” got it because the team was winning.
    Birdman was a drug overdose reclamation project–suddenly took the league by storm.
    Carmelo always tuned out when things got tough.

    Kleiza and Birdman are okay, but there are other guys that can be had that do similar things. First off, do we really need another power forward/SF tweener that can shoot threes? I don’t. (No Kleiza) Reggie Evans could be had for the contract of Kapono and would do the same thing as Birdman(and not light up between quarters).

    Rasho, Bosh, Bargs and Pops/Humphries is not a bad rotation for the bigs. It really isn’t. It’s not nearly as undersized, either. Yeah, we need some more youth at the big spot, but that’s more a long term concern. You’ll notice our season REALLY went in the crapper off the bench when we lost Humps…that was no coincidence. Yeah, he’s a chucker, but just like JR–he can really get after it when focused. Just not by scoring, but by swatting shots/dunking/and rebounding.

    All that said, I’d prefer to get a wing in this year’s draft (preferably also a backup point of quality who can penetrate–like say, Teague in the late rounds with an extra pick). We have a decent team, now we just need a few speed demons to open up the holes.

    Remember though also that it’s not only about the speed.

    Look who is the best driver on Orlando…it’s not Lewis–it’s Turkey glue. It doesn’t always have to be the fastest, but the one that makes the best decision that can kill you. A healthy Calderon may give us more penetration into the lane next year on a much higher level. We’ll see. You’re right though, we need more athleticism and toughness, and Bryco and company know this.

  3. shats says:

    Didn’t everyone say last year that Chauncey was too slow to be effective anymore. With no hand-checking allowed, you don’t need to be fast to get into the paint. I think the main problem is team don;t respect our finishing in the paint (especially Calderon).

  4. Toshmon says:

    All of you guys are right in some way:

    We have problems-but hopefully the raptors are are all watching the playoffs like we are (not me, im in Australia) and realizing their faults, we have a pretty young team it takes time.

    In all honestly we have a good core: Bargnani and Calderon WILL be our team in the future and I believe they can put it together.

    The pussy factor on our team must be addressed-no pussies ever make it far in the playoffs.

    fuck, I miss Garbo.

    • Joe says:

      Bargnani and Calderon are bench players. Eg Brian Scalbrine types. And would be lucky to see playing time on a true Contender.

      • Marc says:

        Ridiculous…

      • Sam says:

        As I watched Cleveland’s bigs do nothing offensively last night I couldn’t help but think that Bargs would be a great addition to their starting unit. He’d either draw Howard away from the basket opening things up more for Lebron, West and Williams or would draw Lewis or Turkoglu on him and have a size advantage. He’d have to improve his post game a bit but that’s been coming. He’d also have to play better defence than he does now but that’s also been coming and he’d have help in the form of Varejao and Wallace as the other big. He could definitely start for one contender and help get them to the finals in my opinion.

        But I cannot think of anything I would take from Cleveland for Bargs in a trade so they’ll just have to dream of what could be.

        • tonious35 says:

          Bargnani won’t be a Dirk, but I think he will be a Rashard Lewis type of player, but less-darker in skin.

          • Sam says:

            You’re dead wrong. He’s getting the Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder treatments this summer.

  5. Katyusha says:

    David Moro: Kleiza and Birdman are more than just alright. Combine them with Jones and Carter and all together these key guys make less than $5 million. That. Is fucking amazing. Not only are the Nuggs deeper than the raps, but they have a team payroll $3 mil less than the raps. Truly impressive.

    Who can the Raps bring in at $1 mil per year who can do what these guys do?

  6. Sam says:

    Or BC is trying to recreate what worked with the Suns while addressing the deficiencies of that team (which is one of the best teams in NBA history in my opinion, fuck all you ring-lickers). That’s a tricky business and he might not be up to the task but the O’Neal trade indicates a willingness to depart from the D’Antoni template a bit.

    Denver was shit until the Billups trade despite the talent and toughness on its roster. Sometimes things take time and a lot of tinkering. And as Otis Smith is proving in Orlando, you can go from dumb to genius in weeks in the league (and back again). Got to hand it to Smith, he’s got quite the team right now.

  7. khandor says:

    Arsenalist,

    re: Comparing our “star” players with theirs is a moot point. It doesn’t matter how good Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani are, we’re just so out-matched in every other area that two of Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon would have to have monster games for us to have a fighting chance in the fourth quarter.

    IMO, you are off target when making this observation.

    Here’s an example to illustrate what I’m talking about.

    Toronto has Bosh, Bargnani & Calderon.
    Denver has Nene, Martin & Billups.

    Q1. Which core is better? Tougher? Etc.?
    A1. Denver’s.

    Now simply flip-flop Bargnani [No. 1 Draft Pick, overall, 2006] and Martin [No. 1 Draft Pick, overall, 2000].

    Toronto would then have Bosh, Martin & Calderon.
    Denver would then have Nene, Bargnani & Billups.

    Q2. Now, which core is better? Tougher? Etc.?
    A1. Hmmmmmm …

    Not realizing/acknowledging that Andrea Bargnani is ONE of the HUGE problems with this Raptors team all on his lonesome … beside Bosh & Calderon … is a MAJOR deficiency which Bryan Colangelo [and a number of Raptors fans] has at the moment.

    • yertu damkule says:

      yeah, i could go for that.

      except for the fact that martin makes nearly $10M more than bargs did this season. is it reasonable to simply perform fantastical player swaps as though they could be done in a vaccuum, without factoring the implications their respective salaries would have on the make-up of the team? shit, simply replace AP in the lineup with kobe (or any decent 2 with a pulse), and voila: playoffs.

      or except for the fact that with nene holding down the 5 & bargs moved over to the 4, with anderson backing up the post, i’d wonder whether it doesn’t make the nuggs just a touch more versatile, and able to spread the floor. granted, it weakens them considerably defensively & on the boards, but unlike some teams, the cupboard ain’t so bare that his deficiencies would appear so glaring. and playing alongside a beast like nene or a shot-blocker/rebounder like anderson wouldn’t hurt either…he (bargs) would simply be left to do what he does best, feeding off the dribble/drives of melo, billups et al, letting nene &/or birdman do the dirty work, spacing the floor, etc. in a system where he wouldn’t be counted upon to provide the backbone of a defence, he’d probably do quite well.

      • shats says:

        If Bargs is replaced by Martin, wheres the scoring coming from, just Bosh and a tiny bit from Calderon. You cant win averaging 75 points per game, even if the defence and rebounding does improve, Martin is not an offensive player, instead preferring to throw balls at the rim that have absolutely no arc to them at all

    • pfgtre says:

      Martin would be a hilariously bad fit with Bosh and Calderon. He would probably make both of them cry and then he would completely quit on the team.

    • Chutney says:

      I’d still say Denver’s core is better and tougher.

      • Marc says:

        Tougher? Yes. More skilled? No. Better? Probably. After all, they are in the conference finals and we are playing golf.

    • Anthony says:

      You can’t be serious!!!! Martin is useless, only producing in a perfect offense for him. Add to that he is responsible for both the losses to the Lakers (bad reach in foul on Kobe game 1, when double coming in the lane, and through away the in-bounds in game 3), shows a lack of understanding.

      Bargs has upside. Martin is avg at best and on the downside of his career…..

      • tonious35 says:

        Martin NEEDS to play with a point guard that has been to the Finals before (Kidd and Billups), that seems to be the case with him. Kenyon will not change the way he plays, so point guards need to adjust to be in sync with that guy.

    • Larry says:

      Here’s the thing about Bargs though – are you really willing to assume that he won’t, over another full year of starting time, grasp team defense and team rebounding at an NBA level? Granted he’s not athletic enough to be a big difference maker in those areas, but he could certainly turn into a good team defender. You have to give him credit for his ability to learn some passable man defense and it’s tough to say that he can’t improve in other areas; most players in the NBA haven’t had to learn how to play 3 different positions through multiple systems and lineups and now coaches.

      • Macy O'Baston says:

        That’s exactly what he’s suggesting. It’s preposterous, all of the Raps failings always come back to Bargs with that guy. It’s like he wasn’t one of the top 2 players on the team this year.

        • Brasky says:

          Yeah, being number 2 on this squad doesn’t say much though, considering the gargantuan drop off after Bosh. Even then, he’s still more project than player, which gives me hope for brighter days ahead if he can ever figure it out. Not sure why Calderon never gets blasted by Khandor despite his large contract and limited impact.

          Marion, though, once he got going, was easily this team’s number 2 guy.

    • j says:

      you are forgetting that denver’s franchise player is carmelo anthony. we do not have a carmelo anthony. marion is ok, as he brings toughness to the team, but we need a scoring, slashing 2 alonside to complement him.

      kenyon martin might be overrated and oft-injured, but he knows his role now as the enforcer, a rebounder, and a post defender… something that we badly need out of our bigs. yes, he was once among the high scoring, high rated bigs of the east back in NJ, when his main job was to catch and finish jason kidd’s lobs.
      if we had a point guard like kidd or nash, maybe even pops mensah-bonsu might have career numbers.
      plus, come on, yes he was the number 1 pick by the nets years back… and he did have great seasons there and have been to back-to-back finals appearances.

      i’d rather have a lineup of bargs, a healthy jose, and a healthy martin, as bosh is trying to be what bargs is becoming.

  8. Adam says:

    Main advantage of the Nuggets this season: the leadership of Chauncey Billups.

  9. Chutney says:

    I also don’t like looking at the current Nuggets as an example of how to build a good NBA team, because they were built in the most random, roundabout way possible. There was no consistent vision from the front office for year to year. Every individual move seemed to signal another direction, until they lucked into the this year’s equivalent of “Pau Gasol to the Lakers.”

  10. msmith04 says:

    Chauncey Billups has been a great addition to the Denver Nuggets this year. I am not trying to downplay the effect that Billups has had on the Nuggets, but basketball is and always will be a team sport. Great players can make teams great, but that doesn’t always happen. The Denver Nuggets have replaced nearly half of their 9 man rotation when compared to what they had last season (Billups, Nene, Birdman, and Dahntay Jones). Sure, Billups is the biggest upgrade, but what the other three bring to the table can not be underestimated. When healthy, Nene is a really good player, which is why the Nuggets never gave him up for 20 cents on the dollar, and Birdman and Jones bring strong defensive presence to the front court and back court respectively.

    When watching the Nuggets, you can see that each player in their rotation has a role, and they execute that role to the best of their ability. Is part of that related to Billups and the leadership he brings? Sure, but if we are talking about plucking players off of one team and putting them on another, does a Billups/Calderon swap make the Raps a contender? I don’t think so.

    • Marc says:

      I think it could. Denver was a perennial underachiver in the West until they picked up Chauncey. You cannot underestimate the power of great leadership. Of course, it helps a ton that he is playing for his hometown.

    • tonious35 says:

      Not just leadership itself, but how the leadership is being conducted and teaching/rubbing the play onto the other players. JR Smith is starting to pass the ball as a good 1&2-guard because he must be trying to emulate his play style from Chauncy. JR Smith is younger than me (I am 24), and at that age, he still needs to look up to someone and learn from whomever is around him, especially on how he lives his own life which can construct success.

    • j says:

      calderon is a point guard in the mold of a chauncey billups, not a steve nash or a jason kidd. chauncey and calderon are point guards who prefer setting up plays, and both have decent 3 point shots.

      since the raptors wants to be like colangelo’s phoenix, a nash or kidd would be better running the point. both are proven leaders and veterans.

  11. jim says:

    martin isn’t tough, he plays basketball with a ufc mouthguard for crying out lowd.

  12. Joe says:

    Well the real difference here is the pure talent involved, BUT more importantly, leadership.

    Chauncey Billups has been to 8 conference finals now and has 1 championship and finals MVP. He makes his teammates better and is always talking to the players through out the game.

    Bosh, ummm, has been……….

    • Johnn19 says:

      Re Billups vs Bosh, consider the 6/7 players he consistently had to play with at Detroit for those 8 years, and the 45/50 Bosh has had to play with in TO, for your answer.

  13. jim says:

    “Chauncey Billups has been to 8 conference finals now and has 1 championship and finals MVP. He makes his teammates better and is always talking to the players through out the game.

    Bosh, ummm, has been……….”

    how many conference final had donkey been on at the age of 25

  14. Silverback says:

    The more I watch how tough the remaining playoff teams are playing the more I like the idea of the Raptors drafting DeJuan Blair at 9. Might be a bit of a reach, but we really need toughness and rebounding. I think we can pick up some adequate slashing/scoring through a trade or free agency. Jamal Crawford? Ben Gordon? Not Kobe level, but a step up from Parker and Kapono.

  15. FAQ says:

    Okay, Arse … everything you say is valid but it’s been known for some time now. Thanks for comparing the Ratpors to the Nuggets .. very revealing.

    But what are we to do with your revelations .. besides agreeing with you???

    Now put yourself in BC’s shoes, pants, shirt and … never mind … but now tell us specifically what must be done with the Ratpors … immediately and for the long term.

    Trade Bosh, Bargs, Jose, Parker … or try to build around them? What to do …????!!!!!

    • tonious35 says:

      If I was in BC’s shoes, I would tell Bosh to stop YouTubing and go to a basketball camp. I will explain to him that it does not make our team look competitive for the league.

      • Macy O'Baston says:

        I would tell Bosh to do whatever the fuck he wants to do as long as he’s competing on the floor. Did Steve Nash’s videos (the one with Baron Davis is amazing, and the other sports drink one) make the Suns look non-competitive? Give your head a shake.

        • tonious35 says:

          Tru, but oddly, what happened during the season right after that summer? They fell apart and did that trade for Shaq.

  16. FAQ says:

    Also … what totally pisses me off with this fine forum is tribal honkers assuming that our #9 draft pick will turn the Ratpors around and somehow put them into the playoffs. I pity the #9 draft pick being thrown into the Ratpor cesspool. So please stfu with yer draft pick masterbating … because it’s effing useless .. ya hear …????111111

    • mrmvilla says:

      I think everyone aggrees that #9 pick is not going to turn the franchise around. However, it is still worth discussion. After all, that’s what this forum’s about… discussion.

      Short-term planning : Deal with the Bosh issue, trade him or keep him. If you keep him, understand he can’t be your #1 option. He’s not that type of player, he’s no leader. Acquire a leader to play with him.

      If you trade him, he has some value so try to get that coveted #1 option… A leader you can build your team around.

      Once that issue is dealt with, the path to winning should be clearer.

      Note : the path should be “clearer”, not necessarily “easier”. Good luck BC!

      • CalibreMC says:

        Could not have said it better myself…..beware all you Raptor “theorists”…you know who you are.

      • Brasky says:

        How exactly is Bosh not a leader? Bosh is a number 1 option. He’s got a good head. He’s not the most clutch, but how many power forwards do you see taking that last shot? He’s proven he can bare a very high number of possessions at a very high rate of efficiency, comparable to the best offensive players in the league. He’s the 2nd or 3rd best offensive bigman in the league, next to Dirk.

        IMO, asking Bosh to bare far and away the majority of this team’s offensive and rebounding load, while trying to check his man and cover for the severe defensive ineptitude of guys like Calderon and Bargnani is too much to ask of this kid. This is why this team fails. The role players aren’t doing their jobs.

        Finding a wingman with equal or better offensive capabilities as Bosh is not realistic. There aren’t many out there. Bosh and Bargnani will shoulder most of the offensive load at a good rate of efficiency. Given the team’s cap crippling contracts with underachievers like Calderon, Kapono and Banks, finding good/great rebounding, competent defending, medium/high usage players like Delfino (and Marion) is very doable.
        I actually think Delfino’s impact will be very noticeable.

  17. tonious35 says:

    Arse, one word and it is totally lacking in our team.

    L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P

    TRUE LEADERSHIP! CHAUNCY IS A LEADER with BALLS and it led to a CHAMPIONSHIP+ FINALS MVP! CHAUNCY makes a team feel they can win any game they play, despite the odds!

    BOSH MIGHT HAVE TALENT to lead our team in STATS, but we know Youtubers ARE NOT REAL LEADERS! BLOGGERS are not LEADERS (Gilbert Arenas, but he quits blogging, might be a step forward for him). I won’t respect BOSH fully until he stops YOUTUBING.

    • pfgtre says:

      I think the fact that Bosh posts hilarious YouTube videos is completely unrelated to the lack of leadership on the Raptors.

      • Macy O'Baston says:

        Of course it doesn’t, people look for reasons to scapegoat people.

        Look at Bosh’s clutch stats at 82games.com. They are comparable to anybody in the league in terms of scoring (ahead of Ginobili, Deron Williams, Billups), FG% (on par with Kobe, Wade, & Pierce, ahead of Joe Johnson & Dirk), 3FG% (small sample size no doubt but 60% shocks most of you I’m sure), and rebounds (ahead of Garnett, Boozer, Gasol, Amare).

        Stop saying he can’t be #1. He’s the only consistent option the team had all year. What other big man is relied upon to not only take final shots, but CREATE final shots? Dirk and….nobody. Get him some wing help who can be #1B so Bosh can be #1A.

        We all know LeBron and Bosh aren’t even close to the same level. Only a select handful are at LeBron’s level (Kobe, Wade, Paul). They are the only guys who can legitimately lead their teams into contention. Everybody else has SIGNIFICANT help. Dwight Howard plays with 2 other all-stars! (and a 3rd is on the IR!!) Bosh has 1/2 year of very good Bargnani, and a 1/2 healthy Calderon. QUIT BLAMING BOSH YOU FOOLS!!!

        • tonious35 says:

          If Bosh can back it all up, and prove me wrong for next season, then good for us then.

          • Macy O'Baston says:

            Did you read the post? It’s not about Bosh. It’s a team game. He needs better teammates. Why do people like you insist on pinning it all on Bosh?

            I’m sure he’s really concerned about your respect regarding his Youtube as well. I’m sure he’s got some respect issues about your comments on sites like this.

        • j says:

          bosh’s situation is similar to pau gasol’s back in memphis. he was the team’s best player and among the top players in the league. yes, he did lead memphis to some playoff appearances after having bad seasons, but did they ever win a playoff game? no.. they were swept in all their playoff appearances.

          i think we just have to improve the whole team itself. dump the crappy players. will marion stay for less money? will bosh stay? who will we draft? what should we do with AP, joey? who will be the assistant coaches?

          this should be step by step, not so high expectation. i’ve had it with that, and it only breaks my heart. last year, everyone expected us to be able to challenge boston in the atlantic division when we got JO. result=FAIL. so why not have a lesser expectation like, let’s say… i expect the team to win at least 40 games, and HOPEFULLY, sneak in and be the 8th seed.

      • Cosa nostra says:

        Well, why doesn’t he post that he’s been at the gym and has been working on his post game, passing, defense etc etc.

        Derrick Rose has been to the gym since the season ended already because he wants to improve.

        • FLUXLAND says:

          HA!

          When I heard/read about Rose being in the gym, I was thinking the exact same thing. CB4 is on Twitter asking people what he should do on a given day… because apparently he is so bored and has nothing to do while collecting 250k a week… while Rose is working on his game.

          My thinking about Bosh is that he likes basketball but he doesn’t love it. It’s a means to an end for him. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t come out talking about being the MVP.
          Dude is into so many other things and his parents always told him bball was secondary to everything else (he’ an actor, engineer, computer and tech wiz etc.) that he doesn’t love the game like the players we compare him to. Those guys live and breathe the game. This guy is asking me on twitter what movie he should go see or why Subway is stingy on olives. *tears out hair* CHRIST the guys is complaining about basketball playoffs being on… I guess they are boring!!

          Again, nothing wrong with being a well rounded individual with many interests, but we all know that the people who live an breathe their particular field – are winners at them. So expectations with him should be much much lower then they are, kinda what people should have done with this team this year and should do for the next 5-10.

    • Brain Colangelo says:

      you are posting on this site – you are not a L-E-A-D-E-R. you will achieve nothing.

    • Cosa nostra says:

      Don’t ever compare Chauncey with him. Billups actually, you know, ready for this, wins.

  18. Dudek says:

    Our #1 player is a pussy. Name one team in this league who’s gone anywhere with a nerd bitch leading them?

  19. kaine says:

    to say “Andrea Bargnani is ONE of the HUGE problems with this Raptors team ”

    no offense, is just plain dumb.

    he is a rare breed, a big man that can score
    he’s not a dirk? so what? did we trash Kobe because “it’s not jordan?”

    he had a good year, despite all the critics and a terrible coach (mitch).
    he also have the mental toughness to not let himself down…he puts effort, he’s still wanting to learn, to improve.

    that’s a great skill

    to consider him a problem, and not an asset, is just stupid.

    • Brasky says:

      But he is a problem. He’s starting to score consistently and efficiently, but there’s still, you know, the whole rebounding and defense parts of the game, where he has still only shown flashes.

      The problem is so much of the team’s success rests upon him figuring everything out. He is and will continue to be this team’s X-Factor.

  20. Cosa nostra says:

    All hail Chris Bosh. Mr 20/10 Franchise player. Beat all the bad teams but and go on four 7 game losing streaks against good teams because I can’t do anything, really but the fans think I can.

    If you people reading this think Winning 3 playoff games in 6 seasons is a success then you really are blind. That record is attrocious. Not even a second round appearance by Mr Franchise player? Common with that talent he should have easily led us to something meaningful, on his own if he had too. Grab your teammates by their throats and tell them how it’s going to go. No one is going to remember you if you put up your 20 but you finish 15th in the East every year.

    Anyone can put up alot of points. But are you helping your team win

    - Reggie Miller.

    • Brasky says:

      It’s a TEAM game. Shitty teams don’t win games. You really need to understand that. Kobe Bryant without Pau Gasol couldn’t do shit. Dwight without 3 allstar shooters on the perimeter can’t do shit. Wade without Shaq had one of the worst records in recent history, and this year barely made the post season when upon he had a very CHRIS BOSH LIKE early exit. Chris Paul and David West. Deron and Boozer. Bosh and … Calderon. Starting to get the theme here?

    • Macy O'Baston says:

      Talent? What talent? Name me 1 player from the last 4 seasons that has ever done anything in the NBA outside of TO. Rasho was a role player on SA. Kapono cherry-picked his way to a title. Jalen Rose couldn’t touch his toes in his last season. Anyone else?

      Exactly. That’s the kind of talent Bosh has to work with. And you expect him to lead teams like that to playoff series victories. Just fucking clueless.

      He’s got a mellow personality, so that makes him a bad player and a bad person. Usually in Canada that is considered to be a benefit, rather than the arrogance often associated with Americans. If only he were a douchebag, I’d like him so much more…

  21. Cosa nostra says:

    And why is this idiot making announcements all over the place? His cousin or his PR people are always trying to advertise him. Either he started a new twitter account or he made a new youtube page. He can lead a marketing firm but can’t lead a basketball team I guess.

    • The man says:

      Bosh is soft! No doubt..Let me just say when you get called out by shaq as a drag queen and Zach Randolph says he is better then you, and you dont defend yourself thats soft!

      Add to all that you did beat the sub 500 teams but went 0-7 and lost numerous games to the top 8 teams in the east that, hurts. You come out on you tube and say that that your not like shaq that you dont hate.. Basically yout telling us that your a pussy! And to top it all of you go out and say that you will grap 18 boards on the last game of the saeson just so you can make it a 20/10 average for the year tells me that your stats and ass can stay no longer in t.o..

      Lastly when you get fouled hard or bitched slapped, you back of and dont even show emotions.. The other player laughs in your face, cause he is thinking ya this guy is soft.. We had severals games like that this year.. When are you going to get in someones face, im yet to see that in your 6 year career.. For heavens sake even Kobe,lebron and wade have been in altercations.. Yours skinny ass never stands up for our logo.. And we pay you $$$$$$.. Kick some ass!

  22. khandor says:

    The two best Raptors this past season were Chris Bosh and Jose Calderon, not Andrea Bargnani. This, despite the fact that Bosh spent much of his time being played out of his natural/best position, while Calderon was restricted by his hamstring injury.

    The Raptors main problems are:

    1. Bryan Colangelo’s personnel decisions
    2. Andrea Bargnani’s performance
    3. The Back-up PG position.

    IMO, those who think that Bosh & Calderon do not possess the type of “leadership skills” required to be main-frame players on a team which is a legitimate contender for a spot in the EC Finals are making a mistake in their assessment of the skill sets for these two players.

    The drop in performance of the Raptors from the 2006-2007 season is due to the personnel changes [i.e. players, coaches & staff] which have been made on the team AROUND Bosh & Calderon, not because of their poor performances.

    • The man says:

      ANDREAS Bargnani’s performance? Dude what season did you watch? Andrea had his best year so far as a raptor! And he is only 23-24 years of age.. Get your facts right! Bosh sucks and he’s soft. Wake up and smell the softness!

      • khandor says:

        Whether or not “Bargnani had his best season yet as a Raptor” is irrelevant.

        The best two Raptors this past season were Bosh & Calderon, not Bargnani.

    • Brasky says:

      You are making a mistake in labeling Calderon as anything more than a very good role player. His defense is way too shaky and his offensive usage is way too low to have the sort of offensive impact you need from your big guns. By usage, I mean the percentage of the team’s offensive possessions he bears (well under 20%).
      He’s very picky when he likes to attack (not often), shoot (not enough), while being more content to eat away at the shot clock in the half court and make the easy pass for a long, low percentage 2 point jumpshot against a set defense. This style of play results in a very good personal efficiency but has a limited impact on the rest of the team.

      • khandor says:

        “Usage Rate” is a relatively worthless statistic when it comes to “evaluating the effects” of Point Guards accurately.

        • Brasky says:

          Explain. This metric gives us the percentage of the team’s possessions on the offensive end that a player takes part in while on the floor. It accounts for shots, assists, free throws, etc. Therefore, it communicates roughly how involved a player is in the offense.

          Since Calderon is a low usage player, this suggests he’s not doing too much for the team on the offensive end. Through observation, this is true. He only shoots when he’s wide open, he only drives when there’s a very clear open lane (leading to a little over 2 free throw attempts per game – not pace adjusted), he’s too conservative on the fast break, he wastes a lot of time pounding the ball outside the arc in the half court, leading to many of his assists coming from long low percentage two point jumpers. Quite simply, he isn’t a good creator for himself or for the team. The team’s poor offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions) does not reflect his high individual efficiency in any way.

    • Statement says:

      I agree with Khandor,

      As it stands, Bargnani is still a massive liability on the defensive end and I’m not sure how efficient he is on the offensive end.

      That said, he still has room to improve but the problem is that we are sacrificing the success of the team to have him improve. How long can we keep that up? For example, last year Dave Berri had him as the worst player in the league and this year he is bottom 25.

      Calderon and Bosh have the most positive impact on the team. I hope they can keep Bosh and I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Bargnani.

      • The man says:

        First and foremost i wouldnt classify Bargnani as a liability on defence..He is already a better shot blocker then Bosh on stats! That being said he is continuing to improve on his rebounding! Bargnani is a far more complete player then cris Bosh will ever be..The points are coming they have continued to increase, all this while 80% of the plays and minutes go to Bosh. All this when he is playing out his natural position.. Cris Bosh tries to knock down three’s and he looks silly doing so.. Cris Bosh has a bad knee and andrea is fine and healthy.. Also Andrea is younger..If you were a betting man i guarantee you would look at the long term and no that cris is not the guy.. Andrea goes to pf position and you bring in a monster on C. Then you have a contender..

        Lastly i would take a mobile pf 7 footer any day over a 6″10″ bad knee and all pf.. Facts are facts.. Cris is better now but not for to long..
        Plus Andrea is mentaly tougher.

        • khandor says:

          For those watching the current playoff games, you see every night just how important Pick & Roll defense is for the best teams in the NBA, especially when it comes to a Big’s ability to Hedge, Hedge & Recover, and Trap vs the opponent’s guards & forwards.

          Andrea Bargnani is one of the worst defending Bigs in the entire NBA, in this specific aspect of the game.

          He either:

          i. fouls the ball-handler, or
          ii. allows him to get to the rim, or
          iii. gives up an open mid-range jumpshot.

          Bargnani’s balance, lateral agility, and decision-making is poor, in these specific situations.

          • Marc says:

            P&R defense is the responsibility of the entire team and not just the two specific players involved in the P&R. You of all people should know this Khan.

            If Bargnani is outmatched by speed in a P&R, it is someone else’s responsibility to help the poor 7-footer out. Then it is up to the rotations to figure out the rest.

            You can never put P&R defence on one individual.

            • khandor says:

              Many who watch the NBA game assign responsibility for certain occurrences on the court to:

              A. The wrong individuals altogether; or,
              B. The Team, in general, when it should go instead to specific individuals; or,
              C. Specific individuals, only, when it should best be dispersed amongst The Team, on the whole.

              Part of what makes basketball such a wonderful game is the aspect of it which works along the lines of:

              “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

              That said … actual experts in the field of basketball see the game in a different way than others and, therefore, tend not to make incorrect assessments of this sort.

              Andrea Bargnani’s individual defense, as a Center, in Pick & Roll/Pop situations is atrocious.

              Until it improves, the Raptors are not going to become a legitimate contender in the EC.

              [Hint: How bad his teammates are in their specific roles on the court during these situations, including different rotations, is simply irrelevant.]

    • Dudek says:

      this khandor dude is fucking dumb,hes a stat goof.joses d was atrocious and bosh played for his numbers…andrea was the only one who looked like he even cared…..but the numbers are for idiots like this khandor goof.

      • khandor says:

        The person putting forth “Usage Rate” as a meaningful statistic for the proper evaluation of a PG’s effectiveness was/is Brasky.

  23. khandor says:

    re: Usage Rate

    This is the formula from John Hollinger’s ESPN site …

    Usg. Usage Rate is the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)

    If you examine it carefully you should be able to figure out on your own the reasons it is not a sound indicator of a Point Guard’s level of effectiveness.

    • Brasky says:

      I don’t take information from John Hollinger.

      Still, you have not even attempted to address this, but how is Calderon anything more than a role player?

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