20/10…you keep those kinds of players.It was a challenging year to say the least, and no one on this team had a harder time with it then Chris. After a summer where he won Olympic gold as a KEY member of the US National team (KEY as in he was crucial to their winning, not a throw in like say…Michael Redd, KEY), and the highly touted pairing with Jermaine O’Neal, the year started on a high.
3-0 out the gates, with what we thought were quality wins over Philly and Golden State, I was looking foolish for predicting this team would be a .500 one at best. Then something began to happen. We noticed that Bosh (along with Calderon and Parker) was being played 40 minutes a night, “that can’t be sustainable” I told myself. O’Neal wasn’t working out, Bargnani sucked needed more time, and the Raptors were closing in on .500. Smitch got the axe, seemed like Bosh lost interest, and the Raptors quickly faded into obscurity.
What we considered Bosh not caring (or losing interest), was just a regular reaction to Smitch getting axed. You know, the guy who was with Bosh since his second season in the league. The guy that was there while Chris went from good to elite. It is only natural that he wasn’t all too happy when his coach for the last 4.5 years got axed. Then Triano comes in and changes everything up, mid-stream, without a real system. The guy just turned 25, excuse him if it took some adjusting.
Q: What was the only constant through the year? Through every win, loss, embarrassment?
A: Chris Bosh.
Just wading through some of his numbers, it is clear he is as productive as BC is overrated:
Rebounding
He finished 6th in the league in rebounding. Many say that it took a heroic effort on the last game of the year (19 boards against the Bulls) to average 10.0 rebounds/game for the season, but had he been rebounding 9.9, would we think any less of him? For much of the season, Bosh has had to contend with defending the paint against penetration, and checking his own man in the block at the same time (Raptors don’t know what a defensive rotation is).
He has had minimal help on the boards, but yet has a Defensive Rebounding Percentage (DRB) of 22%. that means, he grabs 1 (a bit more then 1 actually) out of every 5 defensive rebounds (which means the other 9 players on the court grab the other 4 (a bit less then 4 actually)).
Scoring
9th in the league in scoring at 22.7pts/gm. Bosh scores from all over the court: 9.2pts from jumpers, 7pts from the post, and 6.5 from the line. Surprisingly, he produces only 2.2pts more from the perimeter then from the post, something many of us (myself included) wouldn’t have thought.
Amazingly, he is the only player in the league who is Top 10 in both rebounding and scoring. In fact, there were only two (Bosh and Howard 20/10 guys (three if you count Duncans 19.3, I do) in the league this season.
Workhorse
Of the Top 30 Power Forwards/Centers, he was third in playing time at 38.02 minutes/game.
Wins Produced
The stat geeks over at Wages of Win have figured out that Bosh is responsible for 10.9 wins. Considering the Raptors as a team won 33, Bosh was directly responsible for a third of them.
Intangibles
Seems like he really wants to be here. He is out and about in the community pushing programs and selling gay $100 birthday t-shirts. Doesn’t sound like much, but Toronto has a troubled history of attracting talent, the fact that we have someone who wants to be here, is something we shouldn’t give up on too quickly.
Franchise? Max Player? Elite? All-NBA? Defensive force? Cornerstone? …Pansy? Whatever you label him, we can all agree that he is going to be one of the most highly sought after free agents at the end of next season. Only in Toronto can people be happy about signing Jay Triano to a three year contract as head coach, and vilify Chris Bosh for doing nothing but compete hard and put up 20/10 a game. Only in Toronto can a 25 year all-star (perennial) be labeled not worthy of a max contract, when the same people would rather build an NBA franchise around a one dimensional player, who has only put together half a season of solid ball in 3 years in the league.
What would I do? Whatever it takes to keep him a Raptor. Give him a max contract, and get him the help he needs to win. He may not be the prototypical franchise player, but he is someone you can build a team around. Colangelo believes on building family, and bringing people up internally, that same philosophy should apply to Bosh. It’s time we break our mold and KEEP our stars in the city instead of chasing them out.
Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Bosh, our gift and curse…
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Yep. Bosh needs to be kept. Yes, he’s a pansy, no that doesn’t have to be permanent. No, he’s not Lebron or Wade, but he is the power forward version of that. He’s the best offensive PF in the game. Period. (Gasol is a center and Garnett is just about done). Is it worth max? Of course. Do you see any Lebron’s and Kobe’s hanging around on trees? No. Given this evident fact, deal with the reality we’re going to need a gift from god draft pick. Sign Bosh to an extension, play the youngun’s (Ukic, Hump, draft pick(s)), and see what happens. If anybody gets hurt, tank.
Frankly, I’m worried about this team. We are really at a precipice. I feel if we give up and deal Bosh, we are cementing this franchise as one that can’t keep it’s talent. We’ll turn into the Oakland Athletics of basketball (albeit one with a higher payroll and slightly better results).
The team needs athletes in the worst way. This upcoming draft must be a home run for Bryco, because he really has little else in terms of wiggle room with Marion seemingly coming back (or another de facto Marion in a sign and trade for similar money–unless he can unload banks or Kapono with him). Bargs ain’t going anywhere for a long time.
With the economy in free fall, this is our best chance to give Chris the…you can get hurt in the shower tripping over the bath mat, the economy is wretched, and we love you man speech to get his butt signed long term. After that, it’s just window dressing until we stumble on an elite 2 or SF.
Who knows. Sports is a crap shoot at the best of times. Toronto is a mid-market franchise with enough money to take a hit IF NECESSARY. Which means brian is forced to make lemonade with one piece of lemon and a shitload of water until he gets lucky or someone actually believes they are drinking real lemonade.
Which is precisely why we try to search the less enviable Euro-mines for talent. Toronto’s only advantage is its safety and cosmopolitaness (read: we like Euros) and they’ll come to take a shot at the pros. Many teams use this wisely, but we have a chance to become the best at it. Maybe one of these other international assistant GM’s ends up finding us another Mutuombo. We’re going to need help.
The top US college players don’t want to come here. They stand to lose too many endorsements and they don’t want to live so far away. The top US players generally don’t want to be here. We have to overpay just to be competitive. It is what it is. It sucks to be a team that can pay like the Boston Red Sox but has to put out a de facto Blue Jays team anyway.
The best we can hope for is playoffs, first or second round, every year. And if you’re a raptor fan, that will have to be good enough.
Question: Would you say Amare is a better or worse offensive PF than Bosh?
Amare is worse, If Bosh played with Steve Nash in the Phoenix system, he’d average 5 more points per game than he did this season. Take Nash away from Stoudamire and he is nowhere near as good
“The top US college players don’t want to come here. They stand to lose too many endorsements and they don’t want to live so far away. The top US players generally don’t want to be here. We have to overpay just to be competitive. It is what it is. It sucks to be a team that can pay like the Boston Red Sox but has to put out a de facto Blue Jays team anyway.
The best we can hope for is playoffs, first or second round, every year. And if you’re a raptor fan, that will have to be good enough.”
Raptor fans, bloggers, manager & coach wannabes! Read this every night before you go to sleep! This is your Bible! Hopefully one morning you wake up in the real world!
I’m prepared to give him the max if MLSE are truly (not BS) willing to surround him with 8-9 highly skilled/talented/athletic teammates. (Not JK, JG, Ukic and 4 D-Leaguers).
If we give Bosh the max, we have to acquire a bunch of better players.
But if we pay agree and decide to pay Bosh 30% of the team’s fixed salary cap, the team’s ownership (I’m looking straight at the MLSE board of directors, here) have to agree and decide to pay the luxury tax.
It’s a double-edge sword:
Give Bosh what he’s worth (his legit FA market value) = Max Money + Agree to spend the necessary money (luxury tax) to get him the help he’ll need to warrant re-signing him in the first place.
Bosh is exactly like KG, Gasol, Dirk, TD, Howard, Boozer. Bosh needs 2-3 p[ayers who can combine to account for 10-12% more wins; who will help our existing core players (Jose, Bargs and even Marion) combine to contribute 5-7% more wins.
Finally, in the LBJ era, Bosh needs a team that compete (and beat) on the the GOAT; the undisputed best player in this generation.
That said, if the Raptors want to pay Bosh the max salary he deserves (that he’ll get on the FA market), MLSE have to agree to pay the luxury tax. If MLSE are not willing to pay any luxury tax, than trade Bosh his Summer and continue treating Raps fans like you they do Leafs fans.
Bosh + luxury tax spending = fighting chance to beat LBJ
Bosh – luxury tax spending = treadmill team
We all know what Bosh wants and what he’s worth. So right now, a Raps fan, I just need a commitment from MLSE that they will spend above the luxury tax to build a team around Bosh that can legitimately win beat LBJ, get to the NBA finals and win a championship!
If the answer is yes, I think Bosh would sign an extension this Summer. If the answer is no, than trade Bosh and let Raps fans live like Leafs fans have for 40 years: as MLSE whores.
Colangelo isn’t stupid. I doubt he will offer him the Max. More like 5 years and 75 Million. He knows he isn’t a franchise guy and to surround the team with real talent they will need Bosh to accept a hometown discount. MLSE will not go into the Luxury Tax.
But wouldn’t it be great if Bosh came to Cleveland? I know this is a Toronto fan page, but just imagine CB as a Cavalier… that team would be unstoppable. I’m sorry guys, but as a Cavs fan I am hoping that Cleveland came some how work out a deal with Lebron that will provide enough room for Chris Bosh in the line up for next year. Bosh is guaranteed to win championships in Cleveland, as long as he stays healthy.
manyak:
I think he’s more versatile. I think Amare would fit better here (especially if a package, say, included Nash). But the point is, Bosh can do more things than Amare can. Amare may be more efficient, but then he has a better point guard. It’s arguable, though. I don’t include Timmy as a PF either. Boozer isn’t as good as Bosh. Dirk is a SF. Although, I guess I could see him being called a PF, in which case, okay, 2nd best power forward. But we already have a poor man’s Dirk anywho.
James:
Totally agree. I don’t think it happens ’till we make the second round, though, which I feel is Colangelo’s “first step” process. If we make the second, we’ll need to “go for it” or forget it. Because if you’re good enough for the third, you’re good enough for the finals.
The team can get more value for there dollar paying Shane battier, David West, Scola, Millsap 4-5 million then paying this guy the MAX. They do the same if not better things then Bosh does.
Sacremento gave Shareef Abdul Rahim a max contarct thinkign he was going to elevate his game and finally emerge. Never happened. More 12-15th place in his conference is what happened. No playoff appearances as the “guy”. I see something similar happening with Bosh.
In my opinion, from watching the games, and comparing the talent I rather have Chauncey, Rondo, Pierce, Allen, Kenyon martin, Kobe, Battier, Scola, Lebron lead my team then Chris Bosh. Those players are light years ahead of him at the moment and actually, you know, win.
In all fairnes Hung,compare the players Bosh is playing with compared to those players you mentioned….I feel the only way Bosh resigns is that BC goes over the luxury tax and get Bosh some help…
Keep Bosh he is the Raptors.
At the end of the day, Bosh puts up 20 /10 against the worst teams in the league. He rarely dominates a powerhouse and We didn’t beat Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, Denver, Phoenix, Utah, Lakers. That’s embarassing, I’m sorry to say.
That’s very worrisome coming from your Superstar Franchise player
Hung,did Bosh play these teams by himself?
The good teams know how to key in on Bosh effectively and the rest of the raptors squad is downright pathetic at creating their own shot. They’re system players, and Bosh is the system. Shut down Bosh and you shut down the whole team. There’s no Tony Parker, or Paul Pierce, or Hedo on the perimeter to punish you for smothering Bosh. There’s Jose ‘I only shoot when I’m 100% wide open’ Calderon, and Old Man Parker.
BOSH DIDNT PLAY D ONCE THIS WHOLE SEASON.
Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. Bosh not only had to cover his man in the paint, he had to rotate to help on penetration every time someone got in from the perimeter. the fact that no one rotated to help on his man doesn’t mean bosh didn’t play defense, means his teammates suck.
and fuck your dumb stats. we watched him wilt and botch shit time and time again.stats are for fantasy leagues not intangibles that get you to the post season.
Thank You
You just don’t know how to read them properly.
Hung I agree with you. Tell it like it is and I respect your opinion because it’s the truth.
You have Battier shutting down Kobe, the best player in the L and doing this without their starting center and shooting guard. That is leadership. You think Bosh would be able to lead that team? Even US President Obama sent a text to Battier after game 4 to congratulate him on doing a great Job.
When has Bosh ever got that praise from anyone? Top players make fun of him and call him out, The American media calls him out but idiots in Canada praise the guy. I don’t see what’s so great about him. He’s nothing special.
Yes. because Battier didn;t won the game by himself, forget the 34 by brooks and the Lakers, who played like memphis. I don;t all of you idiots, you think its easy to replace 20 points and 10 rebounds? Who would you trade Bosh for, if you don;t want to keep him
shareef abdur rahim put up those numbers.he was easily replaceable.
Funny, I thought Arse wrote “crosshair”? I guess just not the Bosh one, eh? Especially after Ric Bucher joins Ad Woj. in the Chris Botch is audi camp. It wasn’t as good as the other crosshairs, imo. I think Arse would have done a bang up job with this one. Bosh got his numbers this year, but I felt his play dip. You can blame Sam getting fired but Chris never did, he even said he took absolutely no responsibility for Sam getting fired.
He played mentally frazzled when the pressure was on, and when it was off, and he played better, he would make nonsense claims that the pressure was still on because there was still a minute mathematical chance. He also plays worse at home because he reads his own press and gets shook. He and his entourage, who I’m sure all who are familiar woulds say at least partially seem like major douchebags, actually go on message boards and blame and threaten Raptor fans for not watching boring videos, or question his toughness or admit disdain for his flat footed hands up pylon post d when we know he could do better if he cared to. Chris himself is a great guy and a good player, but somehow this year he forgot who plays for who. Maybe due to the media and 2010 stuff, maybe due to his handlers who are more interested in become celebs than ball, but it was a different guy than the humble fella we all got to know and love.
Unfortunately Chris still needs to grow and learn. I think he’s either too comfortable here and lax or too uncomfortable and shook, hard to find that in between this year. Where’s the guy who just went out a played hard because that’s what he did? He had good numbers, and that’s to his credit, but he struggled when it counted. BC has to do what he has to, and it has nothing to do with another player, it has to do with making the best decision for the franchise and if a good deal is out there, I think BC will pull the trigger; crosshair is appropriate. I wish Bosh well, I like him, but for all his value, we aren’t getting enough. So we need to cash it in.
Where’s there’s smoke, there’s always fire. Ric Bucher (ESPN) and Ad Woj (Yahoo) are two of the best legit storybreakers in the media. Their respective shared assessments/reports provide near-precise coordinates for everyone in the Republic to find this Bosh-trade fire.
Accepting the fact that Bosh wants to leave, won’t sign an extension and will be traded this summer, this eventuality also means that Marion will certainly not return next season either. Without Bosh on the Raps, Marion will be looking to sign with a playoff caliber team at the very least; and Marion’s agent will be working on brokering a sign-n-trade.
If this speculations is accurate and realistic, it means the Raps will have to find 3 new starting-caliber players, in addition to a couple of new players to improve the depth of our bench.
Add this all up and the Raps are entering another era of rebuilding.
The key to all successful rebuilds is acquiring as many 1st round picks as possible. since we’re entering the draft in a (obvious) rebuilding mode transition, we can expect and hope that MLSE allows BC to purchase a least one additional 1st round pick.
Come October, you can bet the farm that the Raptors training camp roster is going to look extremely different, very young and light years away from becoming a championship caliber team.
Correy Maggette gets 20/10 too. So does Zach Randolph. So does Elton Brand. These guys are career losers and there teams have never won anything combined in there life.
But that doesn’t matter right. They get their 20/10. Lets give them the Max.
Magette doesn;t get 20 and 10 and is a ball hog, Bosh doesn’t have a shit attitude and isn’t fat and lazy, plays better defense too (though thats not saying much). As for Brand, he’s never won much because he’s played for the clippers, and then a team which he doesn’t fit it.
Comparing Bosh to Zach Randolph shows how poor your basketball acumen is bubba.
Brand is not a career loser, he was an mvp candidate a few seasons ago. The guy has been on poor teams and recently has been plagued with injury.
The Clips had a good team a few years back when they made a run in the playoffs. It is highly suspect when your team does better when your not in the game (ahem, t-mac).
Tough call on Bosh’s next contract. He’s a quality player but the Abdur-Rahim comparison might be right.
Not sure if this is allowed under the current CBA but if I were Colangelo I’d offer Bosh an extension that was big but only became a max contract if certain individual and team stats/goals were reached, emphasizing defence, rebounding and maybe assists. Bosh is talented offensively but needs to be a bit better distributor (as does Bargnani) and needs to put more energy into being a rebounder (on both ends) and defender. He’s a pretty decent rebounder already but if Bargs stays the other big has to be a monster on the glass. Bosh can defend but seems to take a certain number of possessions off.
Bosh does run the risk becoming Rahim, but he has already been to the playoffs a few times, Rahim didn’t have that during his Memphis tenure.
Bosh will be joining Wade in Miami next summer. Guaranteed.
i’m pretty sure that neither individual nor team incentive bonuses are allowed under the CBA.
GOLD MEDAL: I can clearly remember at least 2 possession when scola embarresed him on defense. more instrumental for the win were kobe, lbj, melo, howard,paul…not him.
20-10 > shows just that he is a good player on a bad team.he is the main player and gets plenty of opportunity to score , and plays without a talented wing (someone that demand the ball more)
he is a talented and athletic big man, who is soft and doesn’t play defense. at his best, he is a Ralph sampson, a zach randolph, a rahiim
nobody wins a ring with that kind of player.
he wants to be an all-nba and a leader. sadly for us, he’s neither.
he’s peaked on body and skill. the smart thing to do is to capitalize on that.
That right there basically nailed it, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep him. We shouldn’t keep him because his price tag will be too high and we’ll corner ourselves into expecting too much from him again only to be disappointed over and over again.
Unless you pair with him an All-Star caliber 2-Guard we’ll continue to see him struggle like a fish out of water on offense. He’s not somebody you can dump the ball down to for points like Duncan or Howard which is what we need our “best player” to be.
I’ve always thought of him to be of low basketball IQ, his decision making has always been subpar and that can be poisonous given the number of touches he gets. I also think that he’s rattled easily and is a little too mentally soft to be a leader in the true sense of the word. But hey, that’s just me, some people look at 20/10 and want to hand him a max-contract, to me that’s reading into stats too much.
I dunno, Bosh is more reliable at scoring 1 on 1 than Howard, he requires good entry passes and offensive rebounds. Also, Bosh isn;t that soft, he’s not afraid of contact – he just doesn;t play good post defense because he doesn;t have a thick frame
Agreed, he is not worth max money, but is he worth having a fire sale over? I think most will agree that Wade and James aren’t moving, making Chris the top free agent. If we do a sign and trade, you don’t think every team out there will low ball us with picks, money or tweeners? As supporters of this team, you think we’ll get enough talent back to have a positive step forward with Jose, Bargs (if he signs longterm) and whatever we get for Chris? I just don’t see it.
I think the best situation would see Bosh re-sign, make a big deal about accepting less than the max so the team can improve (like the fake Jose story that BryCo spun) and as Arse says get a nice 2-guard. I’m not sure you even need an all-star level piece, although obviously it would be nice. This time next year you will be another year into Kapono’s deal, which may attract some interest and if you do re-sign Marion to a level headed contract, he might make a nice piece to move at the deadline.
As much as I’m a Colangelo detester and have been since he has been here, I’m willing to see what he does by the end of next summer. If he is the talent that many of you believe him to be, this is the true test.
I didn’t say he was the main player on that team, I said he was a key player. He was very important to anchoring the defense and playing off of the big boys on that squad. Everybody gets embarrassed during the course of a game. Everybody, that doesn’t mean they aren’t great players. Would you rather Have Scola then Bosh? No, the answer is no, every single time.
Again, comparing Bosh to Zach Randolph is comical. I am actually embarrassed for you that you think Bosh AT BEST is a Zach Randolph. New levels of ridiculousness going on here.
Bosh needs help. Lebron couldn’t do it on his own until they landed a mid-tier player in Mo Williams to take some of the load off him. Imagine we had a player who could take some of the offensive pressure off Bosh. We would be a much better team. Not a championship team, but a much better one.
All bigs need a wing man to win.
Agreed, we haven’t had a wing since we ran VC out of town.
we ran vc out of town?….dude you are a clown.
exactly…it all comes down to the wingman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYkLCYiE3TY
Randolph has a better post game maybe but the stats are the same. Good players on bad teams
the comparison to scola was made to outline his defensive inability.
in that team, with so much talent with him, he coudn’t stop scola.
bosh and randolph seems the same to me (bear in mind tht I can’t watch them live, just on tv): 20-10 guys, no one defend, both take away too much from the team for their success.
bosh is really good with the media, I concede that.
but c’mon, Ru’paul?
can you imagine
kobe,lbj,kg,pierce,duncan,wade,artest,yao,billups,anthony,dwight, even dirk,
being called Ru’paul?
his peers doesn’t respect him. a really really scary sign
and Shaq asked Kobe how his ass tastes.
The lack of respect shown by Shaq to Kobe sure has been proof that Kobe is a loser.
That remains to be seen. If he can win without Shaq, he isn’t. If he can’t, he is.
I’m willing to bet he is.
that makes zero sense. Zero. This is not a one man game, never has been. You think Jordan would have won without pieces around him? If LeBron never wins a ring, does he suck? He does using your argument and that is just plain wrong.
I’m far from being a Kobe lover, but I respect the mans game. Anybody who doesn’t sure doesn’t know ball.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pcweuv
I guess TJ Ford, Marion, Calderon, Bargs, Carter, Jalen Rose, Mike James, Oneil, Moon, Parker, Rasho, Donyell Marshall, Rafer Alston, Kapono,( would be lethal with a true leader)
I guess these guys are bums and not enough help for Bosh. This guy needs all stars at every Position or he fails.
And if your not happy with your team then fucking demand better players to the media and to BC. Your the supposed best player on the team and cornerstone. Fucking act like it. And why not say, Jay Triano sucks that’s an insult to the team Bryan, bring in a Top coach.
Look at the players on the list. Marion was on a great team with Nash, Carter was gone when Bosh was an infant, Rose and O’Neal were well past their primes when they played here. What have the rest ever done? Nothing. They are bums and they aren’t enough help for Bosh.
Duncan is always hailed as the best PF ever, he’s played with Tony Parker, Manu, Robinson, and a bunch of well placed, effective role players. His good teammates haven’t stopped him from being labelled the best, why do Bosh’s shitty teammates label him bad? You’re an idiot.
Wonder if Manu is the leader of the Spurs since they couldn’t advance without him.
Man that Duncan guy is such a loser.
:)
I hope he goes to Miami your going to see that team get even worse. You have Wade and Bosh and Beasley, that’s it. Lets see what he can do against Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit in the future, in the playoffs.
Hmmmm I wonder if Tracy Mc Grady is really a winner too. I think he is a superstar. He just needs more talent on his team and then just maybe his teams would have been contenders before.
Offcourse it has nothing to do with Mc Grady being a career loser and a poor leader. He needs the right teammates to go far. Yao, Artest, Battier and Scola are not enough.
Artest, Battier and Scola are killin it without T-mac AND Yao. That team is spectacular on paper when everyone is healthy. However, they play worse when their supposed best player is on the court. Something is amiss there.
Mc Grady – Bosh – Magette – Brand – Abdul Rahim – David Robinson – Dirk have one thing in common. Can anyone guess
4 made the second round of the playoffs or better and one has a ring. What a bunch of losers.
I particularly like the Dirk hate. Considering who he played with this year, he’s an absolute beast.
Just like in 2006 right. Just like in 2007 against GS. Had nothign to do with his leadership skills. It’s all on his team.
Robinson won with Duncan as the leader BTW.
Leadership is important but so is skill. Dirk has the latter in spades. Might be the most efficient offensive player in the league. And he got jobbed out of a ring by Bennett Salvatore. Admittedly, the GS loss was on him as much as Avery Johnson and the rest of the Mavs.
I’m not a Bosh supporter. Hell, if GS offers Randolph, Biedrins and one of Belinelli or Azabuike I’d make the deal even if Bosh wanted to stay. The question isn’t keep him or trade him, it’s what gets the Raptors the best roster. And yeah, someone on the team has to step up and lead when things aren’t going their way and Bosh (and Calderone and Bargnani and everyone not named Garbojosa) has been a bit deficient there.
The Raptors don’t owe Bosh a ton so they shouldn’t sign him to a max deal just because he wants one and he doesn’t owe the team/fans a ton either. If he goes after next year, I won’t hate him for it. If the rumours are true and he really wants out right now, he did way better than Vince in giving the team a chance to get value as he walks out the door.
Well said, Sam.
Bosh had more then enough help in 2007. They should have swept Jersey but he came up short against Mikki Moore, who absolutely embarassed him all series. That team should have gone to the Conference finals and faced Cleveland or Detroit. We had the talent.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/64661/index.html?eref=fromSI
Lebron making fun of Bosh as usual. Also calling him weak and skinny to George Strambalopolous a year ago. Why don’t you people facts. If Shaq and Lebron and Garnette and Zach Rondolph and Danny Granger and Stephen A Smith are always calling this guy out and taking shots at him that just maybe, he’s overrated?
I read the link. He doesn’t make fun of Bosh. I saw the interview with Strombolopolous too and he was very complimentary of Bosh, saying he might not have the physical tools of a star but he plays like one anyway. So take Lebron off your list of people who took shots at Bosh. Of course, anything Zach Randolph says is pretty much gospel so who cares what Lebron said.
Ok but you have to admit that he just can’t lead a team to anything worthwhile. Say we give him Caron Butler and Devin Harris and Stephen Jackson and we finish last place in the east.
What will these idiot Bosh supporters say then
Tell me who can lead a team by himself, the arguement is retarded. Wade can’t do it without Shaq, and Kobe couldn’t do it without significant help. Only Lebron has done anything with a shit roster.If he had Harris and Butler (not Jackson, he;s a loser), then a top 4 seed for sure.
Fools like you boo Vince because you believed him when he said he wouldn’t dunk anymore. Looked good in print, but when you saw the scrum in it’s entirety, you could see he was kidding. Same with his interview with Thompson. A 10 second snippet gets played on the FAN and all of a sudden he is dog meat. Watch the interview and put it in context and it’s a whole different story.
You have completely misinterpreted the above and put your spin on it.
To the OP
You think Bosh is an elite player. Some things never seem to amaze me.
If winning 3 playoff games in 6 years is elite then you need to go abck taking your medication.
Kobe couldn’t make it out of the first round until he was paired with Gasol. Is Kobe not elite?
Wade couldn’t didn’t make it out of the first round this year. Is Wade not elite either?
How may all-stars has Bosh played with in six years? None.
So was Vince elite?
What do you think?
Not going to put words in Steve’s mouth, so I’ll wait.
He was elite for one season
he was elite. and he still is the raptors’ greatest player so far.
Yeah Bosh has had enough talent to work with. He cannot lead a team.
Do you even watch the games?
There is only so much Colangelo can do. He’s going out of his way to accomadate Bosh. Bosh wants Calderon over Ford, he gets his wish. Bosh wants a defensive presence, he gets Oneil, Bosh wants a tough rebounding SF he gets his wish with Marion
What happens. Worst team in the East is what happens.
BTW when was the last time he took over a 4th quarter and put his team on his back and dominated? I counted 0 times this season.
He routinely beats all the bad teams in the League
He always loses against a 500 team.
He calls out the fans for not cheering on the team.
TJ Ford gets his head knocked off and Bosh does absolutely nothing.
Bosh wanted to be an MVP. So he plays his ass off the first 3 games of the season and then packs it in. What leader does that to there team?
He starts to show off after beating Memphis and stars down the camera like he’s Michael Jordan. What proceeds is his team going on 3 7 game losing streaks for the next 3 months.
We haven’t beat Detroit, Utah, Cleveland, Boston, Lakers, Phoenix, Denver, New Orleans this season. Anytime we go on a west coast trip we loose all our games accept Sacremento it seams.
He gets his 20/10 though and we finish 14th place in the east ever since Bosh has been drafted.
That’s a leader I’d say.
So Bosh was great when we won a banner, but sucks because we haven’t beaten those teams this year. The Raptors didn’t win those games because Bosh isn’t a leader.
Interesting.
Please…continue.
Exactly, why do these people give Bosh absolutely no credit. So is he not as good as Patrick O’Bryant?
Anyone who thinks this guy is a mega star seriously needs to watch the games and those of other teams as well. Because all this ass kissing seriously needs to stop.
You Raptors writers probably want journalism Jobs with the Star and or Sun and need to kiss up but really, it ruins your credability.
altraps really needs to get un gay about bosh and stop thinking with his pecker.
and you need to listen to your momma more. She knows all about me, son.
Tell me who your favourite Raptors player is on this current roster and why. And use full sentences and what is left of your intelligence after 4 cans of Red Bull and watching the latest episodes of Bang Bus.
I’ll wait.
bosh bitch. but i dont overvalue him like you,you dumb peckerwood….this team doesnt have a superstar.bosh is not elite.therefore he shouldn’t get paid like one.hes a good player.good players dont get max contracts except from idiots like you……..i bet every time you think of bosh you get a boner.you sad fuck.
aahh, my little simpleton, go back in the archives and read. You’ll see that I agree he is not worth the max, nor will he take the Raptors any higher without help.
Still don’t understand? Maybe if I break it down for you: if Bosh is our #1 option on offense again next season, it’s like you watching your brother taking a shower and getting a boner. Nice for you, but not enjoyable. Add a solid scorer to the current roster and it’s like you meeting David Hasselhoff. Pure elation and joy.
And I’ll be nice and won’t point out that you couldn’t answer my question, just like the rest of the Swirsky loving fake haters that comment on this site.
When you come to hang with the big dogs, Abdul, don’t piss on your leg.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine – we can make the raptors GSW.2.0
Do we want to be?
No.
Totally, separately, people are always saying that Bargnani needs to improve his shot selection next year (ie. become more efficient). What do ppl mean by “efficiency”.
Bargs is plenty efficient. Because he shoots so many threes and shoots them well, I’d guess that his post-break #s are close to as efficient as anything that Bosh has ever done. Once Bargnani can start getting to the line more often, he’ll be by far the most efficient offensive option. I don’t know why fans focus so much on FG% when the fact is a guy who shoots 40% from 3-point range is as efficient as a guy who 60% from the paint,unless the 60% guy gets fouled more often or his team can pick up more boards off the misses. Conclusion – once Bargnani can score more regularly from the post and off dribble-drives he will be the raps #1 offensive option.
Bargnani’s true shooting percentage was 55.9% last season — good efficiency.
Bosh’s true shooting percentage was 56.9% last season, and has been between 57.7% to 58.8% (excellent efficiency) for the previous three seasons. Bosh is one of the most efficient prolific (20ppg) scorers in the league, mainly because of his ability to get to the free throw line.
Bargnani’s eFG% (adjusted for threes) is higher than Bosh’s — 51.2% to 49.2% — it’s the free throws that are the difference. Bargnani shoots a great percentage when he gets there, but he doesn’t get there often enough … and Bosh is simply a machine when it comes to drawing fouls. Out of the entire NBA, Bosh finished fourth in FTA and third in makes.
Nobody wants to be GSW
I was joking… it’s tough to create a deal w GSW that doesn’t involve taking back horrible contracts.
Is that for the whole season? If so, then wouldn’t Bargnani have been better than Bosh for true efficiency in 2009? Further, if he can improve on his possessions in the post and at the elbow won’t he get to the line more often, be more efficient and together with Bosh put opposing teams into foul trouble more often?
Yes, the numbers were from the whole season. Bargnani’s splits as a starter were pretty much identical.
I separated out only his 2009 games only, and his eFG% was considerably higher at 53% (almost two percent higher) … but his true shooting percentage didn’t move much, although it did move upwards, and it was 56.7% (0.8% higher). That’s pretty much on par with what Bosh did last season, although that was Bosh’s least efficient scoring season in four years.
If Bargnani can draw more fouls, he’d be an incredibly efficient scorer. He’s already good-to-very good.
That last part is exactly what most supporters have been screaming for and waiting to happen. It’s the main reason we were excited for the flashes of Bargs taking it to the hole hard.
To start games if you had Bosh and Bargs attacking the rim, you’d have opposing bigs on their heels from the get go. Another aspect of Bargs game which is improving but needs a bit more work is his ability to avoid the charge call. He’s getting there.
And both bigs need to look for each other (and a better wing) more. There were flashes of a high-low game in the waning bit of this pissy season but if that becomes a consistent part of each guy’s game and they learn to play decent defence together, they are 2/5ths (+ some bench support) of a decent, dare I say good, team.
But how much do you pay for that 2/5ths?
Chris Bosh will sign with the Raptors….100%. How quickly all the fans forget the mass media attention Vince Carter received years back about not re-signing with the Raptors. Carter was THE rising superstar in the league and Toronto wasn’t given a chance to resign the soon to be wuss. Chris Bosh will not leave a possible $25+ million and the “Franchise Player” tag to go play second fidel with another star.
Just wait a few years after we resign him before he demands a trade.
Yep $25 Million a season to finish 22-60 and 15th in the East.
What a leader
Funny , no one responds to post #24.
If you can explain even 1 of the points I mentioned then I give you a handshake.
I responded above. I’d love to hear more. It’s a boring long weekend for me and I need the humour that you provide.
But, to feed your ego:
- show proof that Bosh demanded those players of Colangelo.
- 4th quarter against Orlando.
- how does one man defeat a team?
- those playoff bound teams we beat late in the season were pretty much above .500 and playing their main guys since they were jockeying for position.
- many people called out fans for booing. It’s juvenile and does no service in attracting others to come here. Team gets blown out by 40 and shows no heart, boo ‘em. Team loses by 12? Idiocy.
- he was probably like the rest of us with TJ…he was hoping he was dead. In any event, who else stepped up? Who on this team at that time would put someone one their back? If nobody, how was it addressed by management?
- averaging 20/10 clearly shows he packed it in. What did Jose and Jermaine do after the first 3 games?
- look at historical data of our team going out west. We rarely do well.
Blaming one player for a losing season is like saying your banana split sucks because there is nothing but bananas in it. The guy behind the counter has to add the stuff to compliment the bananas and, right now, you better hope BC knows his 12 other flavours because, if not, press repeat.
the humor is you loverboy…i bet you got your chris bosh dildo all lubed up and you’re havin a romantic long weekend in your parents basement.
Enough of your bullshit anecdotal evidence about Bosh, then dismissing the actual stats for more subjective reasons. Your argument has no base, stop repeating the same unproveable garbage. Most people here are over 18 so your high school jokes aren’t helping your case.
your mother wears army pants and your daddy is on Maury.
nyah nyah nyah.
I keep flashing back to playoffs 2 years ago when Bosh was utterly shut down by the immortal Mikki Moore, who can’t get on the court for the Celtics who are already missing 2 of their big men. I hope Bosh has matured since then.
He’s playing for a contract this year, I think we will get the best Bosh we have seen. I need to see him in another playoff situation to see how he responds though.
He was shut down by the entire jersey team adam, not just mikki moore. lawrence frank had a strategy to shut down bosh, because he knew that the raptors as a team couldn’t do anything to help bosh get off, and there was no one on the team to take some of the pressure off bosh. imagine we had another option who would have made them pay when bosh got double/triple teamed?
also, if we are going this direction, why doesn’t jose fucking calderon get any flack for that series. he couldn’t fucking throw a simple lob pass over richard fucking jefferson. joses fault we lost that series, not bosh.
“imagine we had another option who would have made them pay when bosh got double/triple teamed?”
Like Jason Kapono!
I’m not going to blame a guy splitting time at PG over our franchise player if we don’t get it done during the playoffs. I honestly don’t remember how Jose played that series though.
i dont think bosh is a leader…hes no garnett, hes not that vocal…but he is a basketball specimen and a pretty good player + hes not an asshole.
If that means giving him max money to keep him then so be it, we can get other strong players. we are dealing from canada: u gotta try and keep our stars or we are always gunna be rebuilding and complaining about life on this site
LETS ALL PRAY….that we get a top 3 pick that will make bosh resign, or that we can trade for a veteran…that jose and andrea step up this year…that BC improves our bench
ya..those shirts were gay..lol
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