It’s all done and dusted, a forgettable campaign that started off with high expectations but ended in ruins. I thought I’d get in a take on some of the issues of the past season, a season which I thought would set us up nicely going into this summer, but instead we’re left to pick up the pieces and reevaluate everyone and everything. The Raptors also did their exit interviews yesterday and there were a couple interesting tidbits.
I plan on being here next year. Everybody’s being skeptical, I can’t control that. This is where I want to be, this is where I want to play basketball.
When asked whether this season changed his long-term view of the Raptors.
No, not at all.
When asked about the possibility of signing an extension this summer.
That’s a possibility. That’s something we may want to talk about. We’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
So this season didn’t have a bearing on his future and he “may” talk extension. The first two quotes aren’t surprising, in his Bulls post-game interview he flat out said that he believes in the current unit of players and that they’re good enough to get home-court in the East. The third one is a little more touchy-feely, I translated the “may” as meaning he’s willing to talk as long as you make him an offer he can’t refuse. In other words, max-money. You know how I feel about that, do have your opinion. Overall, the interview had too much of a casual feel for my liking.
I’m 100% right now…I don’t like excuses but it’s been tough for me this season. It was my first year as a starting point guard and it’s been tough and I couldn’t play like myself for a while. I take part of the responsibility for everything, I thougth I could’ve played better but I couldn’t.
When asked what his biggest weakness is:
I don’t know. It’s been tough, I couldn’t play like myself for three months. I couldn’t play defense at all or turn the corner or create for my teammates. But I can compete against anybody if I’m healthy.
If the Raptors ask you not to play for Spain, what would you say:
No play.
No kidding, as if Garbajosa wasn’t enough of an example. The Raptors should thoroughly evaluate him and allow him to play for Spain if they feel it would benefit his game, for example, help his conditioning. Even then I’d much rather he come into training camp 100% fresh. He’s too proud to acknowledge that he was a crappy defender for most of the year but it’s good seeing him hint at some of his shortcomings this year, at least he knows his failings and will work on them. One thing about him that I like is his confidence, the man believes he can play with the best and you always like that.
When asked whether he’ll return Shawn Marion said:
It’s definitely an option. I’m going to keep my doors open….I want to win a championship…I think the potential is here. It’s a matter of putting the pieces together and having the intensity level there…We’d be in the playoffs right now if I was here all season…Hopefully [I get] a long-term contract.
He says he’s looking for a title and let’s be honest, it ain’t happening in Toronto. This means that for him to stay we’ll have to give him a few million more good reasons which means overpaying him. It’s not so much the money as the length of the deal that’s in question here, we don’t want another Kapono-contract on our hands in a year’s time. His game is all about quickness and athleticism which are the first two things to go and we need to be very careful about the package we offer him. I’m prepared to lose him, Colangelo’s real challenge will be to find a replacement.
Parker, Bargnani and Triano were also interviewed. Back to my thoughts.
The high expectations coming into the season hinged on players displaying qualities and attributes that they either never had shown or had shown only in glimpses. Take for example Kapono and how we were relying on his playoff form against the Magic to continue into the regular season. Or Bargnani, who we thought would return to or even surpass his rookie year production. There were expectations that Moon, after a year’s experience, would elevate his game to fill out the small forward position and there were even high expectations of role players like Graham and Humphries, who were in their fourth and fifth years respectively, and were counted on to show improvement. Humphries didn’t play enough games and although Graham showed improvement, it wasn’t nearly enough to compensate for the glaring hole the SF was before Marion got here.
In hindsight, we were hoping for too many things to go right, not the least of which was O’Neal gelling with the team. Compensating for athleticism at key positions by shortening the rotation was always going to be challenging, but when the key unit you counted on to pull the weight for others couldn’t pull their own, it was only a matter of time before things came undone. I underestimated the black-hole effect of O’Neal and how it pushed Bosh out of rebounding position, and vice-versa. I was counting on them to provide great defensive rebounding but it just didn’t happen, you can attribute it to their individual style of play or the coaching, it hardly matters. The lesson learned is that you’re better off having a designated defender/rebounder aka Pops than a guy you’re asking to both score and defend. Also, good knees help.
It’s not a surprise that the bottom 10 teams in the NBA also happen to rank in the bottom of opponents field-goal percentage, a stat that I highly value. The Raptors allowed opponents to shoot close to 47% which would be acceptable if our defense had the ability to tighten up when need be. However, our fourth quarter point-differential was 8th worst which meant we rarely found an extra gear when we needed it the most. Other than the effort, intensity and a desire to play defense, we were also lacking technically, the way we handled pick ‘n roll and high-screen situations was deplorable and an Achilles’ heel of sorts, especially when talking about dribble penetration.
Before we even touch on dribble penetration, I need to rewind to the end of the 06-07 campaign when it was crystal that our #1 need was perimeter defense and rebounding. How did we fill this need? By adding Jason Kapono. A terrible move that’s still hurting us on the floor and in the cap. The chance to correct this mistake, or at least try to finally fill this need came about last summer but we inked Hassan Adams and Will Solomon instead of a legitimate athletic defender. More pain followed. Jose Calderon took the reigns from T.J Ford and everybody underestimated how bad of a defender he really was which added to the perimeter problems.
There’s two components of guarding a wing who is looking to penetrate your defense. The first is what the defender on his own can do to stop him, whether he has the the lateral quickness, strength, maneuverability and desire to keep his man in front of him. The second is the strategy and technique involved in helping the defender cope with the problem, whether it be hedging, zoning, trapping or what have you, whatever it is the communication must be ever present. We lacked in both areas, and as we already knew coming into the season, our wings lacked the sheer ability to keep their checks in front of them and to make matters worse, our defensive policy of providing help and dealing with dribble penetration was consistently poor.
It’s easy to blame Jose Calderon and Anthony Parker for the dribble-penetration woes but that’s only part of the story. The role of the PF/C in high-screen scenarios was also played poorly by Bosh, Bargnani and O’Neal pointing to a lack of preparation and understanding of the situation. The way of how to handle these situations must come from the coach more than the players thinking on their feet and I thought both Mitchell and Triano were far too detached from the decision-making here. Instead we relied on Calderon and Bosh to read the action and respond accordingly but their communication was poor which meant nothing could possibly work. Further confirmation of this was provided when Marion was acquired and he pointed to the deafening silence present in the Raptors’ defensive sets.
Bargnani was the highlight of the season for me, at least his 2009 was. As well as he played and as great as an improvement he showed from the previous season, I’m still not ready to say he turned the corner until he plays this way from start to finish. Unlike many of you, I’m open to the idea of trading him, then again I was also open to the idea of trading Vince Carter in 2002. Right now our two major trade baits are Bargnani and Bosh and there’s little reason to trade Bargnani unless you’re getting at least two ideal pieces which you fully believe will fit perfectly with Bosh. Bosh has publicly said that the season didn’t have an impact on his view of Toronto and he wouldn’t demand a trade, however that doesn’t mean he’s not going to demand a max 6yr/130M contract and that could end up being the only reason to trade him. If that is the case then Colangelo has to change his philosophy and see what he can get for Bosh which would fit with Bargnani. One thing is for sure: Having the “Will Bosh re-sign?” question looming over us next season is unacceptable and a recipe for disaster.
Back to Bargnani’s game, he’s strictly become a “toe rebounder” who reaches for the ball instead of jumping for it which isn’t ideal for a rebounder. But I’ve accepted that he will never be the rebounder a 7-footer should be and that’s okay as long as he brings the rest of his game. His man-defense was good last year and it was even better this year, he’s one of the few players in the league that gave Dwight Howard trouble in single-coverage and that’s mostly because of his superb discipline. I like how he lets his size to the defending rather than picking up fouls trying to make a play, it’s a sign of maturity and confidence. He’s learned how to stay on the court by not picking up that cheap second or third foul and the stats reflect that – he reduced his PER 48 fouls from 5.4 to 4.7. We must give Triano a lot of credit here, if for nothing than for letting him loose and instilling some confidence in him.
I don’t know how much to read into our late season successes. It’s probably the result of a combination of a few things: 1) Easier schedule, 2) Jose Calderon’s health, 3) Pressure-free games, 4) The post-deadline unit gelling. What weights each of these carry is debatable, but we can take a few things out of it. First, if Marion is to be part of this team we need to be a true high-tempo, high-energy team with Jose Calderon playing a style of basketball that isn’t entirely natural to him. Whether he’s capable of that is not yet known, all we’ve seen is glimpses and that’s not enough to conclude anything, the overwhelming evidence says no but players can change styles. Second, it’s better for the team if the primary option on offense isn’t Bosh.
Chris Bosh is most effective when he’s let loose on the offensive end, asked to crash the boards and is playing as a pseudo garbage-man. If we give him the ball at the start of the possession or as the first option out of a high-screen, the result is predictable. It’s either a jumper which may or may not be preceded with a wastage of the shot-clock. Am I generalizing? Yes, but I find this to be generally true. In contrast, when our offense runs through our wings, i.e: Calderon finding Bargnani, Marion and Parker who are slashing East-West, it makes for more movement and better shots. This does not mean Bosh is reduced to a better version of Humphries, it means the offense is not focused around him, but instead to our hopeful strengths – wing movement, passing and quickness. What does this mean? We need to get a wing who fits the bill, I’m not keen on Anthony Parker returning and would much rather have a high IQ college player in his place.
I’ve liked what I’ve seen out of Ukic, I love his aggressiveness and effort on defense but as I said in yesterday’s post, without a jumper and a tighter handle he’s a liability for us. Last summer we counted on Bargnani to improve and this time around it’s Ukic who we’re counting on to make Marcus Banks obsolete. We haven’t seen enough out of Quincy Douby to say what he might give us and it’s safer to expect nothing from him, the last thing we want to do is repeat the mistake of assuming production out of an unproven player. I like Ukic’s size, his defense and if he could only develop a shot we could even flirt with him playing the off-guard. Colangelo is in a tough position, does he sign a backup PG or not given that he’s already got a couple on the roster? I would advise against it unless he manages to off-load Banks in a trade, otherwise the redundancy would be too great. I think we need to make a decision on Ukic and if we believe in him, we stick with him, acquiring a PG in the draft or free-agency is sending a “you’re not in our plans” message to him.
I’ve said all season long that I’m fine with blowing this operation up and piling up on draft picks but I don’t think things have come to that. We’re a good shooting-guard and another good athletic wing defender away from being a respectable unit in the fluctuating Eastern conference. Signing Marion to the right number is key, we can’t afford to overpay for a 31 year old who is on the decline and might have one great year left in him. The last thing we want is a bad contract to replace Kapono or Banks’ whenever theirs comes off. As pointed out in earlier articles, there’s varying talent to be had in the draft at the wing positions and we need to weigh that against what we have in Joey Graham and potentially Carlos Delfino.
I like Triano and I want him to succeed but I have mixed-feelings about his control of the team. Most of those feelings stem from the lack of effort shown by the team when the games actually meant something. He hasn’t impressed us with his coaching ability but he’s avoided doing the dumb things which Mitchell had made a routine of. His protect-the-paint philosophy could actually work if we had wings that were quick enough to recover so I’m not going to criticize that. Substitutions wise, I thought he should’ve handled the Calderon injury situation much better and given more time to Ukic. I would prefer an experienced coach but I realize that it would come at a high price and since we’re already paying Sam Mitchell, it’s not likely to happen. His major downside is that he’s Colangelo’s puppet.
Finally, a Bosh trade could change everything. Golden State will come calling and so will other teams, the decision to accept or pass an offer will undoubtedly depend on whether Bosh can be signed to an extension. You’re not going to get a dollar-for-dollar value in a trade and if one has to be made, you try to get a young player with potential and a couple picks to go along with it and hope that Bargnani is the answer to the star-power.
There’s no Raptors basketball for 6 1/2 months. The NBA summer is very long and even more so if you’re not in the playoffs. Lot’s more to talk about in the summer ahead.
191 Raps
Please comment on Smitch’s comment to the media just before starting the regular season … where he shockingly admitted: “This may not be an athletic team but they are basketball-wise!”
Surely such a devastating admission presaged his departure as the Raptor’s coach so early into the season. BC must have shit a brick when he heard Smitch’s public declaration dissing the team, and most likely a contentious issue between Smitch and BC before the start of the season .. but to go public..?!
Smitch was professionally correct in his assessment of the roster he was given to work with … but he put his head on the chopping block with his public declaration that revealed his lowly opinion of the team.
Alright FAQ, you keep dropping that quote every half-chance you get. Yes, we know Mitchell admitted to the failings of this team before the season began and saw what was coming. It’s obvious him and BC weren’t on the same page and he wasn’t the right coach for the personnel on this team. All the more reason why he shouldn’ve have been resigned. Water under the bridge. Spilt milk. What have you.
Acknowledging Smitch’s assessment of the Raps roster sorta make much of the blather on this fine forum rather moot … wouldn’t you say ??!!!!
Trade Bosh this summer! Bosh, Kapono for J.R. Smith, Nene, and Balkman. JR and Nene both young and two of the most effective players in League (check out 82games.com). Balkman good tough defender energy guy off bench. (Raps bench this year by far the worst in the league stats wise). Denver will make the trade because they can’t turn down combo of Bosh-Anthony-Billups for next few years. Toronto will have Nene, Bargs, 1st pick (Aminu), JR Smith, Calderon.
Guys to pay good money to in free agency this year, Trevor Ariza as a starter, J. Jack as backup pg and sg, H. Warrick bench guy. A Toronto club with two of those guys and the Denver trade would make playoffs and be top six in East for next few years. Its all that easy.
Big reasons for losing season this season: Kris Humphries injury, O’Neal couldn’t rebound, biggest reason is their terrible bench. Pops, Ukic, Adams, O’Bryant, Douby, Jawai. Who the hell are these guys? 20% chance that even two of these players is in the league four years from now. Only decent no-name reserve was Will Solomon and we got rid of him. As Nathan Jawai would try to say, wtf mate.
Back to the beginning, possible line-up for a trade that would definitely go through: C, PF – Nene, Bargnani
SF – Marion? 1st rounder
SG, PG – JR Smith, Calderon
Bench – Balkman, Humphries, maybe Delfino
– get J. Jack and athletic young big
Can anybody out there say this team isn’t a great young team to build on for many years, and its cap friendly for next few years. DO IT RAPS.
Remember, in this trade Kapono is gonzo!!
Joe Reaume,
From your perspective … What would be the Nuggets’ rationale for completing the trade you’ve proposed?
[Since it would leave them with a line-up like this:
Chauncey Billups
Dahntay Jones
Carmelo Anthony
Kenyon Martin
Chris Bosh
--------------------
Anthony Carter
Jason Hart
Jason Kapono
Linas Kleiza
Chris Anderson
Johan Petro
Sonny Weems
Steven Hunter
... minus JR Smith, Renaldo Balkman and Nene ... which doesn't seem to be an advancement of their cause in the very tough Western Conference.]
Chris Bosh – When asked whether this season changed his long-term view of the Raptors. “No, not at all.”
This is the comment combined with his comments about discussions with his family regarding his first contract extension (people would be going crazy speculating until the VERY END of his contract) lead me to believe he always planned on not signing a second extension and would test the market as a UFA at the end of this contract…meaning TO is likely not his destination of choice and this season did not change his viewpoint. I was actually a bit disappointed after the interview but I may be looking too far into. I’m curious if those who listened to his interview picked up the same vibe.
Not disappointed because I don’t think the Raptors need him. BC’s trying to build a *team* that wins by playing up-tempo ball, shares the rock and plays intelligent basketball. His idea of a good team doesn’t revolve around a superstar, especially a PF. Chris Bosh may or may not fit into his plans and as long as we get 75 cents on the dollar for him I’ll be happy.
I’d much rather see a good young core that plays as a team than Bosh do his jumper thing again next year. As I mentioned in the post, our offense suffers when we make him the focal point and thrives when he’s playing a freer role and acts as a second option after wing players. I’d like to have him here but I don’t want to pay max-money for him which I’m afraid he will demand.
IMO, Chris Bosh always planned on testing what the “open market” would bring for his services, until the summer [2009] prior to his actual free agency period [2010].
That makes complete sense from a financial standpoint.
If the home team ponies up and does two things properly:
Option 1
#1. Offers him the max money he is entitled to receive as a High End player in this league;
and,
#2. Surrounds him with an assortment of other High Calibre NBA players;
then he will exercise his right to sign a contract extension before next summer’s “open market” period, at which point even if he gets there he could still find out that the best situation for himself and his extended family would see him as a best-fit with the Raptors, both, professionally and financially.
Option 2
If the home team fails in either or both of these regards, however, there would be no reason whatsoever for a player like Chris Bosh to sign a contract extension with the Raptors prior to summer 2010 knowing what opportunities might await him during the “open market” period, both, professionally and financially.
=================================================================
As I’ve said before … IMO, the biggest hurdle to Chris Bosh signing a contract extension with the Raptors this summer, or early-on next season is the possible lack of faith which he might now have in the basketball acumen of Bryan Colangelo and the Pres/GM’s ability to eventually build a championship calibre team in Toronto.
If Bosh still has faith in Bryan Colangelo, then, [i] the Raptors’ Pres/GM should be able to get him to re-sign in Toronto rather than [iii] be forced to trade him, or [ii] let him walk away with nothing but additional Salaray Cap space to show for it.
The two cornerstone players of the franchise are Chris Bosh + Jose Calderon, not Andrea Bargnani + Anybody Else.
K are you saying that our man Bosh is worth the same as Wade,Kobe,Lebron?
No doubt,Bosh is a top tier player but not that “top tier”
You have to agree……
Hey,I just want to win games,who plays the 4/5,I dont really care.
What I fail to understand ,is your unwaivering man love for Bosh,and hate for Bargs.
Bargs did not ask to be chosen # 1…he is finally starting to show promise…not a cornerstone,give your head a shake.
We started winning games ,when the ball stopped sticking to “players” hands.
If you have to slighty overpay Bosh to keep him here, I say do it. He may not be the ideal max money guy, but he’s pretty darn close, IMO. I still think we’re asking him to play too far outside his ideal role, due to the complete lack of playmakers on the wing. He can’t be a bigman and the team’s only go to scorer/playmaker at the same time, though he’s done a pretty darn good job at trying to fill both holes.
People need to stop blaming Bosh for management shitting the bed time and time again when it had the chance at acquiring a star wing.
d279,
If you cannot get dollar-for-dollar value in a deal for Chris Bosh BUT you can get dollar-for-dollar value in a trade for Andrea Bargnani, plus a whole lot more, perhaps? … then, IMO, what a Top Notch GM would do in this specific situation is trade Bargnani, not trade Bosh.
Each of those players you mentioned above are, in fact, different from one another and, IMO, it’s folly to try and suggest that they are all of equal value to their team just because the NBA’s salary structure happens to limit what they can each earn from their specific employer.
In the real world NBA, they are each max contract players.
Those teams with multi-dimensional players like Kobe, and Lebron, and Wade, and Roy, with good size, as well, at the core … who are also skilled enough to be primary ball-handlers for their team, when the need arises, have a natural advantage over [i] those teams with similar max contract players who are also multi-dimensional but do not possess that type of ball-handling skill set, e.g. Pierce, and Duncan, and Shaq, and Yao, and Garnett, and Anthony, and Bosh, and Boozer, etc., in addition to [ii] those teams with similar max contract players who are also multi-dimensional but do not possess that type of good size as part of their specific skill set, e.g. Nash, and Paul, and D-Williams, etc.
There is no “man-love” for Chris Bosh from me.
There is no “hate” for Andrea Bargnani fro me.
I see Bosh’s strengths and I see his weaknesses … correctly.
I see Bargnani’s strengths and I see his weaknesses … correctly.
In the case of Bosh, his actual strengths far out-weigh his weaknesses.
In the case of Bargnani, his actual weaknesses far out-weigh his strengths.
If this changes, however, as they each continue to mature, that will be no problem for me, whatsoever.
The FACT IS … My preference is for Excellence … and, it matters not to me from whence that Excellence comes.
I don’t see how you could say you don’t have a hate on for Bargnani and then turn around in the same post and say that his weaknesses far out weigh his strengths. If that were really the case, he would not be long for the NBA. If that were really the case, he would be considered to be a bad basketball player.
I think it is patently obvious that he is: 1) in the NBA for the long run and 2) a good, if not great, basketball player.
Marc,
IMO, there are plenty of players in the NBA whose weaknesses out-number their strengths, relative to their peers. My description of Bargnani in this way will have little effect on whther he stays in the league a long time or not, as there are lots of players with little more than a single main strength and a series of weaknesses that have long careers in this league … e.g. Darrick Martin, Donyell Marshall and Jason Kapono.
Donyell Marshall had more than one single main strength. I have a vivid image in my head of him playing excellent post defense against a much larger player (it might have even been Shaq). Yeah, his greatest strength was long distance shooting, but he was also a good man-to-man defender and could, on occasion, score in the paint.
The fact is, one dimensional players (as you’ve described Bargnani before) generally do not last long in this league. They either have to expand their game or they are left behind. Kapono will be forced to rework his game over the summer or he could be in danger of being left behind once his contract is up.
You can make a name for yourself by being great at one particular facet of the game, but you will not keep that name for long unless you diversify to some degree.
If BC trades Bargnani, wouldn’t that be the end of Gherardini too ??!!!
The reason you can’t get $ for $ value on Bosh is because he’s a RFA after next season…so there is a high risk that the Raptors or any team that takes him in a trade will be left with simple cap space as their reward. Bosh may not stay regardless of how well the Raps play next season…then your left with neither. And Bosh is near his ceiling in value where as Bargs is just beginning to scratch the surface. Bargs is going nowhere until Bosh’s contract extension is signed (and even then I don’t see any immediate move being made with him)…if Bosh leaves then the torch is passed for better or for worse.
*should read UFA*
re. jose & the spanish nat’l team…good to see he’s open-minded about not playing, but in all honesty, it smells a little like vernon wells ‘deciding’ not to play for the US in the WBC. he (jose) would be fighting for PT w/ rubio & rodriguez, and may just want to save face by not playing at all at his ‘employer’s request.’
Yeah a huge part of it is that he wont be despised for calling it quits on his national team because he realizes that Rubio is more than capable of filling his decade-long role for Spain.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4073024
karma’s a mutha…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arh5bmAsWb0
Vey thoughtful and objective analysis of the season – nicely done.
I agree that you probably won’t get dollar-for-dollar value for Bosh in a trade, but (depending on his salary demands) there is also a very good chance you won’t get dollar-for-dollar value by signing him (particularly if he signs an extension under the current CBA and then changes in revenue sharing and the salary structure place further limits on an already contracting cap).
I like a lot of what Golden State has to offer, but I still can’t figure out why there are planning on making a run at Bosh over Amare, who would seem to fit their style of play much better. I’m wondering if they are syaing they want Bosh so they can take a tougher bargainning stance with respect to Amare (i.e. they are just pretending they don’t want Amare).
Anyways, I digress. Thank you guys for the great site and your patience with all posters, some of whom can be quite trying, yours truly included.
“I see Bosh’s strengths and I see his weaknesses … correctly.
I see Bargnani’s strengths and I see his weaknesses … correctly.”
Comedy Gold.
Sho,
Some [many?] thought that this analysis of the best teams in the NBA this season was off base … and/or comedic gold … when it was first published on my blog back on October 28, 2008.
Atlanta was team #16 in my rankings … with Miami and New Jersey and Indiana and Milwaukee and Charlotte and Washington and New York and Toronto in a similar position fighting to re-establish themselves as a legitimately good team in the EC.
Do you know anyone else operating in the blogosphere who, on October 28, 2008 correctly identified 14 of the 16 teams that would eventually qualify for the 2008-2009 NBA PLayoffs?
If you do, please point that individual out to me. : )
PS. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. – Anonymous
I hope this whole ‘look at how cool and smart I am now after getting beat up every day in highschool’ gig you’ve got going on is just an internet thing. Otherwise, I don’t know how people could stand to be in the same room as you.
Brasky,
FACT IS … never been beaten up a single day in my lifetime, although I have little doubt that there are plenty of others in this world who are big enough and strong enough and fierce enough [etc.] to turn that trick, if the circumstances are right, in their favour. Having respect for everyone, though, tends to keep an individual safe from harm’s way, a high percentage of the time … and, there’s no one who I do not respect, even those who disagree with me, and/or choose to throw insults instead of ideas because they are unequipped to do otherwise.
Dude, it was not at all difficult to pick 14 of 16 teams who would get into the playoffs this year in either conference and your order of finish is way off. Not sure why you seem to seek approval on here so badly. You do make some decent points so why don’t you just stick to that and let it be.
Rye,
Dude, saying that it’s not difficult and actually doing it are two very different things.
Whether others “approve” or not is no concern of mine.
Although, I do appreciate the general civility which those like you display to others on this site. Keep that going and you’re okay in my book.
Khandor… I do agree, for the most part, with your assessment on how one could POSSIBLY keep Bosh. $ and players. However, there are a multitude of reasons why he would like to play somewhere else. Saying that:
“IMO, the biggest hurdle to Chris Bosh signing a contract extension with the Raptors this summer, or early-on next season is the possible lack of faith which he might now have in the basketball acumen of Bryan Colangelo and the Pres/GM’s ability to eventually build a championship calibre team in Toronto.”
…is simply based on NOTHING but opinion. That can in no way be proved, researched, analyzed in any fashion other opinion. There is just as likely a possibility that Bosh would rather play with a future hall of famer such as Lebron or D-Wade. He would rather chase big endorsement deals that he can’t get here in Canada. That he would prefer warm weather over cold. That he wants to be closer to his family. That he simply dislikes Jose Calderon because he always gives him orange gatorade… and he hates orange gatorade. There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but being able to prove why it is accurate (without using more opinion) is what makes a statement reasonable. “IMO, Bosh was told by little invisible pixies that a horde of Inuit would sack the city of Toronto, so he needs to play somewhere else” is just as reasonable as your statement based on the information at hand.
This is simply another attempt by you to put the blame/responsibilities/critcisms on BCs shoulders (if Bosh doesn’t resign) with absolutely no actual/scientific/reasonable way justify it. (I’m sure you will give us your OPINION on BC again and use that as justification) There are a thousand unknowns affecting Bosh’s decision(s) that have absolutely no relation to BC. Saying BC abilities are the biggest hurdle is absolutely not resonable or responsible.
“IMO, what a Top Notch GM would do in this specific situation is trade Bargnani, not trade Bosh.”
-again, nothing wrong with having your opinion… but that in no way relates to BC being or not being a top-notch GM. You can say “IMO the best course of action would be to trade Bargnani, not trade Bosh”. Or “I don’t think BC is a Top Notch GM”… but using one opinion to justify another opinion does not make either true or accurate. A poor, average, better than average, top notch, or supreme GM may all trade Bargnani and not Bosh. Then again a poor, average, better than average, top notch or Supreme GM may trade Bosh instead of Bargnani…
What is quantifiable about BC:
1. Two executive of the year awards
2. A known and stated respect by other GMs, players, NBA personalities in regards to his character and choices.
3. Took 2 teams that had poor records… completely overhauled their rosters… which resulted in winning records and division titles.
4. Currently GM of a team that has had a worsening record over the last 2 years
5. GM of a team that has had serious injuries to starters for the past 3 years
6. Likes to wear shirts that have extremely high collars.
7. a bunch of other stuff that is or is not releveant to this post……
I always hear you taking shots at BC and put the responsibility of any occurance on his shoulders without considering other factors. You argue how he is not “the saviour” of this team… when few if any argue that he is (the same people who do say “Bosh is the Greatest ever! or Bosh is the worst ever! and I know full well you don’t put any credence in those individuals). You are continually try to “bad mouth” (using that term loosely) BC and then claim you aren’t. You always criticise his decisions but never justify what other options he had/has available to him. I know, I know… slippery slope…. etc. etc.
I would be amazed if you have ever posted anything negative… scratch that…. non-positive…. about the Raps that wasn’t in some fashion BCs responsibility.
6. Likes to wear shirts that have extremely high collars.
AWESOMENESS….not a word…but only way to describe #6
Jose Calderon – “He’s too proud to acknowledge that he was a crappy defender for most of the year” … in his defense, he did say “I couldn’t play defense at all (for 3 months) or turn the corner or create for my teammates.” So, he did actually acknowledge it there somewhat … didn’t he?.
Shawn Marion – “It’s not so much the money as the length of the deal that’s in question here, we don’t want another Kapono-contract on our hands in a year’s time.” Now … I know you’re not comparing Marion to Kapono as players on the floor … but to my mind, we shouldn’t even mention the two names together (even though you’re only talking about contracts). No matter how much Marion might slow down – and while I haven’t watched him closely his whole career, I don’t see him slowing down substantially for another while yet (couple of years?) and that’s a guess of course, but still … . And even when he does start to slow down, I think he’s got enough going on in the ‘smarts’ department, that (maybe) it’ll take longer to notice. His (veteran) presence was felt and affected the team, more and more as we went along. For me, the ‘intangibles’ that he brings (a word that fits when talking about Marion, way more than anyone else on the team, I’d say) are quite valuable … and won’t be easily replaced.
* Note: For a moment, I was writing like you were actually comparing the two, then I re-read what you had written and I realized that you hadn’t done that at all … but some of what I wrote and then took out (which I’ll put here, only to explain more about how I think of Marion) was: It’s like when Marion came here and people (mostly in Miami) were comparing him to Moon, saying ‘similar skill set’ and other such crap. The inherent abilities that Marion bring go beyond his ‘skill set’ or even talents. The man can PLAY. The difference between him and Kapono – or Moon for that matter – is (I think) the QUALITY of the many little (and not so) things that are almost always going on with him, when he’s on the floor. He may have on off night now and then, but he’s not lazy like Moon or stupid (hoops-wise) like Kapono can seem, at times. In fact, I’d say he’s more than just smart or savvy on the floor … I think his level of ‘instinct’ is something that isn’t often seen. I also think another year with Jose (and the rest) would show more of the chemistry we were starting to see these last few weeks. Maybe a lot more. * (I may’ve repeated myself in the two paragraphs in a way … but … whatever. I’m rushing a bit.)
Bargnani was the highlight of the season for me too … and I’m definitely against trading him, but I also know that it’s my gut saying that … not my head. I just like him … and I’m more than a little curious as to how much better he might get. But … if the right deal could be had and BC pulled the trigger, I’d eventually get used to the idea. I guess. That BC won’t trade him (I don’t think), makes me comfortable that I won’t have to deal with getting used to the idea.
Great analysis on Bosh in the ‘pseudo garbage-man’ paragraph. (GREAT analysis.) I’ve been a big Bosh fan over the last few years, but this season has tempered my enthusiasm, somewhat. How you described him there (pseudo garbage-man) makes such perfect sense. In that role, he might be among the best in the league (imo) … which makes him valuable, certainly, but how valuable, I’m not sure. I’m glad I don’t have to determine exactly what his value is, because I’d like to see him stay … but ‘max money’ doesn’t quite seem right, for reasons that you’ve listed at one time or another.
As many were offering thanks to you and your crew for what you do here yesterday, allow me to add my own. Since discovering this site, it’s grown on me, huge. As I’d rather read about the Raptors (and related discussions) than almost anything else that I’m required to do … your website has been a gift. Few out there, ANYwhere (maybe none, except for one or two of your guys) seem to have the talent for hoops-analysis that you do, imo … and writes about it as entertainingly. I know you’re not going anywhere in the off-season, but with the Raptors done for the year, I thought I’d mention it. Is all. Cheers.
I read something today that got me thinking about what I wrote here … and while I don’t like waffling or back-tracking … I’m starting to think that at 31, Marion might actually be a bit old for what the Raptors need, day-in and day-out. I’d still like to keep him, but for what it’ll cost to do so – money and contract time – maybe not as much as I did up until today.
hardcore,
When Sir Francis Drake set sail on his famous voyage, he held a specific opinion, in advance, about the spherical condition of the globe called Earth.
Once he’d returned home, however, the fact that others had previously doubted the veracity of his original opinion, in that regard, was rendered quite meaningless.
When the champ-to-be said out loud for others to hear before he entered the ring on February 25, 1964 that he was going to take down “Sonny”, his was just a mere opinion, as well. What happened subsequently, however:
Liston vs Clay, Fight I, Part I
proved that specific opinion to be THE CORRECT ONE, after-the-fact, despite what the majority might have thought of him, and his words, and his attitude, prior to the actual fact of the matter.
The FACT IS … you do not share the same perspective that I do about what consitutes a fact, in the first place, and what constitutes an opinion, or an educated opinion at that.
e.g. It’s a fact that I published this analysis of the best teams in the NBA this season, back on October 28, 2008 … and, now, almost 6 months later, it’s a fact that I was 87.5% correct [14-16], at that time. If there’s anyone who visits this that can point me to a different location on-line for a so-called “NBA expert” who did better than that, on their blog or web site, I’d appreciate that very much. : )
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. – Anonymous
[as opposed to being in the recipe]
Give it a rest. No one cares.
Paps,
Do you think I write what I choose to write on-line, the way I choose to write it, because I think you happen to “care” about what I think?
Do you write what you choose to write on-line, the way you choose to write it, because you happen to think that I “care” about it?
I don’t think you really do.
So why make the simple mistake of thinking that … if you “care”, or not, should have an effect on whether I am going to keep writing what I write, the way I choose to write it?
It makes little sense to tell someone else on-line that you don’t happen to “care” about what they just wrote.
If you really don’t “care” then simply remain silent, let it pass you by, scroll down, and move on. It saves everybody a lot of time and effort. : )
You’re missing the point.
Good predictions, except you went 13-15, not 14-16.
But really, who is counting?
… if you’re looking for a “better” player than any of those three, consider someone like Dell Curry.
Great article, some well thought out conclusions from the season.
One thing I disagree with is the binary way you describe the Raps offense. You can’t separate it into option A: Bosh primary and option B: wing primary. You can still keep Bosh the ‘focal point’ of the offense while running off-ball movement for the wings, keeping things flowing.
The problem with the Raps is that when plays are called for Bosh, everyone else goes into stand and wait mode. I know many people blame Bosh’s methodical style for this, but I think it’s more an issue of personnel/coaching. Bosh’s style is methodical because it has to be, nobody moves off-ball when it’s given to him so the only passing lanes he has are out of double-teams.
Of course, with better scoring wings you don’t necessarily need to annoint a ‘primary focus’ on offense as the sets should flow more naturally with everybody getting opportunities.
Finally, this is not a comment on this post directly, but it astonishes me how hard people are on Bosh while annointing Bargs. I don’t see how any of the criticisms directed at Bosh have been answered by Bargnani.
I ascribe it to that ever tantalizing word “potential.” We basically know who Bosh is, and what he’s going to do for us. This lets us take for granted what he CAN do while getting critical of what he CAN’T do. With Bargs, he still seems to be on a growth curve and could continue to improve. Consequently, we project a best case scenario into the future. Also, because he’s not the crunch time guy now, it’s easy to call for him when Bosh doesn’t deliver. It’s kinda like how the most popular guy on a struggling football is the backup QB.
Bosh is a nice offensive player, but if he were in the type of market he’s looking for and playing on national TV all the time, nobody would be talking $133 mil for the guy. You’re judged by wins and losses, and superstars take over games which are up for grabs. They will their teams to victory… on both ends. Half our losses this season have been up for grabs. Bosh does not do that. He’ll make a big block or grab a big board, but not THE big block or THE big board. He doesn’t hit the big shot, because it’s usually a bad shot in stead of driving. We lose games superstars win.
If these games were on TNT, everybody would know this: You can’t ride Bosh to victory, so he’s not a superstar. If he’s not a superstar, he doesn’t deserve $133mil from us or anybody else.
Problem is, folks have Bosh believing he IS a superstar. Our former little nerd (everybody loves nerds!) has grown up into a man who thinks he’s cool, funny, and a leader. He used to know that he needed to get better, now he’s resting on the same game which peaked three years ago. Losing doesn’t seem to shake that new self-image, so nothing will. WE take HIM for granted? M-V-P, bud. He’ll never hear that anywhere else, other than his own foolish mouth (THAT’s the day this season ended). Even Lebron and DWade are defending well these days, or at least when it counts. And Kobe always has.
Bosh is good enough to be 2nd best player on a team, but he doesn’t have the all-around skills to be a good 2nd banana for a winner. Bosh as a 2nd banana would be exactly like JO as 2nd banana, useless without the ball and stopping it dead when he gets it- forcing shots because he’s got to “get going”. Bosh is not Pau Gasol, he can’t make plays for anybody. Bosh is a face-up big who looks at the rim, not the rest of the team like a post-up guy, and who doesn’t pass or catch particularly well but NEEDS the ball to be effective. He’ll get you 20 points with the most touches, but what is he going to do to help DWade and LeBron? And defensively? He’s a brutal man defender, and he doesn’t have the base or balance to ever get better. His help D is spotty at best. His overall impact as 2nd banana might actually be less than JO’s, and teams will be asking the same question: 20 million per, for this? For a #2 guy who can’t play with my #1 guy?
Think our boy is headed for a career of being the best player on a bad team, or mashed together with other stars in a series of failed experiments. It’ll be fair, because that’s his game and he’ll still be rich.
Khandor :
Picking 16 play off teams (or top 16 teams) is one thing (randomly choosing teams would result in roughly 50% accuracy… if you simply took last years playoff teams you would get 13 out of 16) Getting them in accurate order is another story. What is your % there?
But that is neither here nor there…
“The FACT IS … you do not share the same perspective that I do about what consitutes a fact, in the first place, and what constitutes an opinion, or an educated opinion at that.”
I was never arguing what an opinion is (whether educated or not)… but rather how using your opinion to justify the initial opinion is both inaccurate and unreliable. Thats what one of the differences between “online NBA-Experts” and people who claim to be…
Oh by the way…. Sir Francis Drake “famous voyage” was an excuse for the english to plunder Spanish settlements and ships (and the natives) without retribution (Sir Francis was a pirate who was commishioned by the British… thereby did not fly the British flag except when convient for him). Next time, use Juan Sebastián del Cano…. much more accurate as he was the first to circumnavigate the globe(around the 1520s, he took over from Magellan after he died)… it was already accepted by the time Drake left (late 1570s) that the world was spherical.
Again… neither here nor there… but we all get em wrong occasionally eh?
Actually, the spherical nature of the Earth was generally accepted by anyone with a proper education since the time of the Ptolemy (90-168 CE). Only in the most backward areas of medieval Europe did anyone really believe that the Earth was flat, and even then only by ignorant close-minded individuals.
Marc,
Given what you wrote in this comment:
————————————–
Actually, the spherical nature of the Earth was generally accepted by anyone with a proper education since the time of the Ptolemy (90-168 CE). Only in the most backward areas of medieval Europe did anyone really believe that the Earth was flat, and even then only by ignorant close-minded individuals. – by Marc
————————————–
Would you, personally, be very offended if I, or another so-called NBA expert described the Raptors fanbase as being equivalent to “the most backward areas of medieval Europe, populated with closed-minded individuals”, when it comes to understanding properly how a player like Chris Bosh fits into the fabric of the modern NBA game?
Yes, or No will do just fine.
[but, by all means, take the time to explain your full answer in-depth, if you'd rather]
Every fanbase has their fair share of ignorant closed-minded people.
However, judging from the consistant quality of fan-sites such as RR, I would say that the Raptors fan base is no worse off than any other. In fact, for the true hardcore fans, the ones who don’t give a shit about the national Canadian pasttime, I would say that we are in many ways far more knowledgeable and open-minded (ESPECIALLY open-minded) than a majority of other fanbases in the NBA.
So, yes, I would be offended.
Chris Bosh [PF] fits in to the fabric just fine where he is.
But your dead on about Sir Francis Drake. Scratch an Englishman and find a pirate.
Ouch!!!!
hardcore,
I never said that you were debating what constitutes a fact and what constitutes an opinion.
What I did instead of that was make an observation that you and I do not perceive facts and opinions and educated opinions in the same way as one another.
Do you see the difference in those two things?
—————————————
You citation of Cano vs Drake, or Magellan, or Da Gama, or anyone else you’d care to mention is a sound illustration of the point which I make from time to time. What one person thinks is a fact might not be a fact at all, depending on whose side actually won the war, or the battle, or wrote the history book.
In stark contrast with this type of wasted exercise, I present to you this.
Right now, I am wearing a black baseball cap on my head. Is that a fact or not? If it happens to be a fact … what makes it so? If it happens to not be a fact, then, what determines that instead?
Are facts immutable once they’ve been established, in the first place? Or, properly understood, are facts themselves in a fluid state of change over time, sometimes remaining constant and other times not?
Drawing conclusions from so-called facts is no more concrete than drawing conclusions from so-called educated opinions along the lines of what Marc outlined regarding the “educated folk” during the time of Ptolemy, or drawing conclusions from mere opinions which are not substantiated but make sense to the human ear and sense of sensibility.
———-
It’s a pointless exercise to go further than that, so I will stop right there.
———-
Saying that it’s easy to get 13-15 right, or 14-16, or 13-15 plus 1, being the 16th ranked Atlanta Hawks on my own personal list when I chose to only publish a Top 15, instead … is irrelevant.
Saying that all someone had to do was select the 16 teams from last year’s playoffs, so there, is irrelevant, as well.
What’s relevant is if someone ACTUALLY did that … choosing to eschew the other 14 teams from their list, including borderline outfits like the Raptors, or the Pacers or the Nets, or the Warriors, or the Clippers, etc.
What’s releveant, in this case, isn’t what someone COULD have easily done. What’s relevant is what someone ACTUALLY did.
e.g. If there’s a 1-3 favourite on the board in a 6-horse race with the other entrants listed at 5-2, 6-1, 12-1, 50-1 and 125-1 … Is it easier to pick the “chalk” and risk losing your money, in bucketfulls, or is it easier to pick the 5-2, 6-1 or 12-1 next choices, on the off chance that one of those better priced animals might actually end up coming across the finish line ahead of all the others? : -)
Being “easier” or “harder” to do has no relevance to what’s involved with being RIGHT a high percentage of the time.
———-
Do we all get’em wrong from time to time?
You bet … each and every single one of us; and, some much less frequently than others. : )
You’re an idiot. Do you not realize it yet?
Once again, your post makes absolutely zero sense. Do you copy and paste by any chance because I hope that is the case as I would feel really sorry for you if you spend so much time typing out this garbage
Since when were the Clippers or Warriors borderline playoff teams?
Marc,
Come, on … by this point, you should know better than that.
G-State
G-State & the Clippers
: )
I thought we were talking about this year? The Western conference had no room for either of those teams this year. They didn’t even have room for a vastly superior Phoenix team.
Marc,
The Clips & Warriors were borderline playoff teams recently that some NBA pundits had projected as being possible contenders for the 8th spot once again this season … if a slew of things just happened to go right for them … sorta like the Raptors, as Arsenalist has alluded to a whole bunch of times in his writings on the RR this season.
Khandor,
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1158504/the_first_nba_power_rankings_for_the.html?cat=14
This Ryan Christopher Devault guy got 15/16 Correct on the same day.
14/16 sounds impressive, until you realize…
You could only get at most 1 wrong in the west, there were only 9 teams in playoff contention on halloween.
And in the East many people thought the wizards/raptors would do well, and they were replaced by Heat/Bulls.
Anyway if you chose the exact same playoffs from last year, you would’ve been 13/16. 12/16 was probably the worst you could do, if your an average fan.
So Cheers, on that amazing accomplishment.
Edit: Chris got 14/16 as well.
*you’re
Sho,
Thanks for pointing out Ryan’s work.
The specific task I requested however was to point me in the direction of someone with a “better” performance mark than mine, if there is one, not just someone who achieved a similar result as me. : )
You picked 13 Chris picked 14…and why did you lie in your original post (you knew very well you only picked 13)?
I’d like to second what WSG said in his last paragraph about you, Arse (and this whole site). Looking forward to more and hopefully some success on the court alongside it!
The Thunder are reportedly going to try to trade Earl Watson this off-season…Would anyone object to a Kapono-Watson trade? The numbers match up and next year is the last one on Watson’s contract.
We would be improved at the backup PG spot and would get out from under Kapono’s contract (and I think Kapono would also do better playing with Durant).
Why? We already have Ukic and Banks. That would give us three point guards, two with terrible contracts. Kapono will be fed to someone in a Bosh deal.
You are totally right…
This Khandor guy/girl is a douchebag, anyone else think so?
Somebody has made that comment in virtually every thread since the preseason.
AGREED…I believe I said that a few short days ago…but he doesnt care…thats not why he posts…IMFO
Can I vote twice?
YES.
But I am sure his mom is proud of him he did get 14 of 16 playoff teams right.
I actually think he is more sad and anoying then anything else.
I love this site and I am all for freedom of speech but Khandor sort of puts a Black cloud on both for me.
With no disrespect to the site. Clearly I do not blame them. Just the self promotion of himself is just pathetic….
Look at me everyone I picked 14 out of 16 teams to make the playoffs in the easiest sports league on the planet to predict playoff teams.
Most of what he says is like a handjob with pants on FUCKING POINTLESS.
Khandor is without a doubt the biggest loser I have encountered on a site. Oh there are many idiots but none that do it so eloquently, and someone above is right to feel sorry for the loser who literally has nothing better to do than write short stories, most auto-biographies about how he has the hots for Bosh, and how he hates Bargnani and BC. If you read him enough this is basically all he says, and that Bosh is better than Howard, and in the same league as Wade, Lebron etc..
Then compares favourably to others like Pierce, Garnett, etc that Bosh could not hold up socks for. Most on this site and others agree that Bosh is a great baller…but it stops there. If Raptors extend Bosh they are doomed to mediocrity for the duration with one slow man who dominates the team and their payroll and cannot win anything, versus an offence where the ball does’nt stick to his hands and is free flowing and exciting.
Khandor spends all the time he is not blowing Chris, typing about his man love for him. Hopefully if BC trades Bosh , Khandor will follow.
The only thing “wrong” with this site is that it allows 12 year olds like yourself to post on here. Really, all you Khandor bashers are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxxPLDZnqwA&feature=related
You whiny lil school girls are just hatin, that’t all it is.
Live your MF life, let other live theirs.
Really? Katt Williams? Flux I didn’t know you were so ‘hood’.
I like Watson for Kapono, not sure Oklahoma does though, as Kapono has an extra year. Then again what would that trade do for Ukic’s devlopment?
I would trade kapono for a pair of used air jordan and still be happy
Can we trade Khandor AND Kapono to Oklahoma for Watson AND those used air Jordans? I would take that deal in a heartbeat.
The FACT is…we would be getting rid of two useless pieces of shit in one swift move…come on BC pull the trigger.
Khandor does have some clever insight, however, half of his posts are about him waving his dick around.
This generally bores me, so I tend to skim through them…
Agreed. Khancer is probably a depressed loner in person and tries to earn respect on this site. His posts are garbage and make no sense and I have yet to read anything intelligent.
no need to bash Khandor as a person.
If you disagree with Khandors ideas on basketball thats fine (many people here do)- but leave the other garbage out. That is not what this site is about.
As for ball talk, Khandor is often right (like his/her discussion on playing JO off the bench or AP as the point guard) and often wrong (like the time he/she tried to convince me that Phil Jackson would rather have Bynum starting at centre over Yao).
Either way, Khandor always adds colour to this site.
phdsteve,
Thanks for voicing that perspective.
An example of something I’ve been wrong about this season was the demise of the Phoenix Suns. In contrast with the majority of other so-called NBA experts, it was my belief that Phoenix would be able to hold onto their playoff position this season, despite sliding backwards somewhat, as they were re-focusing their efforts on the defensive end of the floor, under the direction of Steve Kerr and Terry Porter. Unfortunately, that specific belief did not become reality this season for a host of different reasons.
Unlike what some might choose to believe, in what it is that I do, being wrong from time to time simply goes with the territory, and acknowledging such oversights on my part is an easy thing to do.
[btw, although you and I share a different perspective re: the "preferences" of a coach like Phil Jackson when it comes to choosing his Center for the LA Lakers, as a running mate to players like Kobe, Pau, Lamar, Trevor, D-Fish & Co. ... I would not go so far as to suggest that the perspective I hold on that specific matter is actually wrong. Instead, it's a subject the two of us have respectfully agreed to disagree with one another about. : ) As The Great John Wooden use to say, "It's important to be able to disagree without being disagreeable."]
Keep doing what you do. It’s a pleasure to read your work, and exchange ideas about the game.
I would rather have bynum at center (fits the lakers more) than Yao.
babyface,
FYI, in case you’re truly interested. : )
I read the article and I think that Yao is easily the most overrated player in the nba. Bynum can the floor better and plays off Gasol better. Gasol and Yao are more high-post players and both would not compliment each other well. Plus Yao is not the greatest low-post defender. I would believe the Lakers might have a similar problem like the raptors (Oneal and Bosh too similiar making the team worse).
Steve if he was not such a condesending Fuck I would agree.
But you have no leg to stand on.
I do like how you stick up for no personal attacks on here but really he brings it on himself.
Reality Check,
That’s called trying to blame someone else for your own inability to not lose your temper and the inability on your part to refrain from lashing out at others with whom you don’t happen to agree about something.
i.e. blaming someone else for the fact that you MUST resort to calling that person a name or cursing at them.
I believe you believe that.
But once again your wrong.
The fact is that you don’t make me lose my temper.
The truth is that you bring this negative feedback on yourself.
Clearly you don’t care or you would either:
A. go away – My guess is you have no where to go
B. change your ways – My guess is here is you can’t teach an OLD DOG new tricks
C. You actually thrive on attempting to piss people off – My guess here is ummm….not sure I think you are just an asshole….
Negative feedback?
YOU see some sort of negative feedback?
What negative feedback are you referring to?
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
Khandor apologists who suggest “the garbage” be kept out of the posts should also jump on the guy who throws underhanded condescending insults into almost every single comment he makes on this site.
Also, his suggestion to have JO come off the bench was tied in with Hump being the starter, CB4 playing the five, Andrea coming off the bench and JO playing very limited minutes. Where is the “right” in that?
Why does it matter the guy atleast starts conversation or everybody would just say trade bosh and just blindly love Bargs (Im not hating on bargs or prasing bosh).
Come on just insulting khandor as person because he is disagreeing [even though he could be annoying ;)].
My point is to let the comments flow. If people want to trash Khandor when he insults them then let them. If you want to stop the “garbage” then go after the one who chooses to instigate it.
…and insulting commenters personnally because they disagree is what HE does. Are you more insulted personally when someone calls you a douche when you’re being a douche or when someone insists you have reading comprehension issues when you understand clearly. It’s entertaining, let it flow.
The Truth,
Unlike what YOU happen to think … the instigator in a situation like this one is YOU. : )
Here comes the blame game. Someone’s gotta own up eventually:
I’m to blame because I like to point out anywhere and everywhere he is wrong because he’s such a condescending know-it-all.
Im just saying that everybody is taking the Khandor hate thing a little to far.
babyface,
Not to worry … It’s not EVERYONE, it’s just certain individuals. : )
————————————–
Also, his suggestion to have JO come off the bench was tied in with Hump being the starter, CB4 playing the five, Andrea coming off the bench and JO playing very limited minutes. Where is the “right” in that? – by The Truth
————————————–
Since YOU brought it up again …
IMO, if the Raptors would have:
Used Calderon as their starting PG
Used Moon as their starting OG
Used Graham as their starting SF
Used Humphries as their starting PF
Used Bosh as their starting C
then,
Used Parker as their back-up PG and their back-up OG
Used Kapono as their back-up SF
Used Bargnani as their back-up C and their back-up PF
in a basic 8-man rotation
with O’Neal seeing only limited minutes, as their 4th Big
while keeping Ukic, Solomon, Adams and Jawai chained to the bench
with Sam Mitchell as the Head Coach for the entire regular season, running a moderately paced heavily set-play based Offensive system with a Defensive system that emphasizes Switching vs Pick & Roll/Pop situations with Bosh & Humphries, as the Picker’s Defender, and Trapping with Bargnani, as the Picker’s Defender [followed by recoveries back to his original check], the 2008-2009 version of the Toronto Raptors would have been good enough to qualify for the playoffs, rather than finish in 13th place in the EC … even though Bryan Colangelo made a series of poor player personnel decisions last summer.
Instead of ensuring that that is how this year’s team actually operated on the court, what you saw instead for the last 82 games was the unfortunate result of failing to implement that specific type of vision for this year’s team.
What is known for sure today is that using:
Option 1
STARTERS: Calderon + Parker + Moon + Bosh + O’Neal
KEY SUBS: Ukic/Solomon + Kapono + Graham + Bargnani
EXTRAS: Adams, Humphries and Jawai
Option 2
STARTERS: Calderon + Parker + Marion + Bosh + Bargnani
KEY SUBS: Ukic + Kapono + Graham + Mensah-Bonsu
EXTRAS: Banks, Humphries, Jawai, Voskuhl & O’Bryant
failed to not work this season, to the tune of 33-49/.402.
Your really starting to worry me
Do you have a girlfriend or any guy friends to go out with?
You spend so much time on here and no one seems to know what your motive is. What are you trying to sell? I really think your a depressed loner.
Moon at the 2-guard and Graham at the 3-spot? Are you retarded? Where is the ballhandling? With Moon, Graham and Humphries you have all shoot-first minded players, rather than playmakers (I use that term loosely) such as Parker, who try to at least get teammates involved.
A front line of Humphries and Bosh would be the weakest in the league, and we already have terrible interior D, and I’m pretty sure that duo would make it worse
Thanks for coming out though.
What you see exemplified here is someone else acting as an instigator … because he happens not to be able to see just how a line-up like that one could succeed in the NBA.
It involves an M.O. that works like this:
Because I can’t see for myself how something which is different than the way that I think about the game could possibly work what I’ll do instead is tell the original poster that his ideas make no sense and that he’s “retarded” to think that way. Then, I’ll try to put the blame on that person for having the audacity to suggest that, perhaps, the difficulty which I’m having with understanding the concepts he’s discussing about the game is due, in part, to either my unsophisticated level of elite level basketball acumen or a problem I’m having with my reading comprehension skills. This, of corse, could never be true, as whenever I read I never, ever confuse what someone might be saying with what I think they might have meant, rather than what they actually meant by the words they used, and I have a Top Notch understanding of the NBA game, myself, having been around it for a period of 30+ years, just like the original poster. Even better still, if I keep accusing the O.P. of being khandescending in his approach to correct the mistakes which I never ever make, in the place … I should be able to show others that the O.P. is the one at fault for failing to leave me room in this discussion and for MAKING me resort to calling him names and or cursing repeatedly, which will probably make me seem “cool” to the other Raptors fans who think pretty much like do already. Afterall, what can it really hurt, since it’s all just “entertainment” here, and quite meaningless, in the end.
Yes, indeed, the instigator of this type of thread derailment on the RR is the O.P., to be sure … not the person responsible for calling someone else names and stopping the ball movement dead in its tracks.
: ), : ), : )
This is you Khan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLe_iB0V_U
Used Calderon as their starting PG
Used Moon as their starting OG
Used Graham as their starting SF
Used Humphries as their starting PF
Used Bosh as their starting C
———————
Outside of calderon there is no outside shooting. To overcome this they would have to run the set plays to perfection and Hump, Moon, and Graham aren’t the most displined players.
babyface,
1. There are any number of very good teams in the history of the NBA that did not have a plethora of “outside shooters” in their starting line-ups but still managed to succeed as a 12-man squad:
Do really need me to list a few of them for you?
[you know I will, if you really need me to : ) ]
2. In the NBA, teams that have “undisciplined” players are the ones to focus the most on becoming heavily set-play based, especially when more than a few of their first 8 players do not have a particularly high skill level, offensively, to begin with.
On many playoff teams today they usually have a second ball handler and on this starting line-up would it be?
It would be better if you exchange parker for one of the two (graham and moon) both their athleticism could be used in the second unit (which would be lacking in athleticism).
Calderon
Parker
Moon/Graham
Humphries
Bosh
would be better than
Calderon
Moon
Graham
Humphries
Bosh
babyface,
Please re-read what I wrote intially.
It’s a basic 8-Man Rotation which would have functioned like this:
Calderon + Moon + Graham + Humphries + Bosh
Calderon + Parker + Moon + Humphries + Bargnani
Parker + Kapono + Graham + Bargnani + Bosh
Calderon + Parker + Moon + Humphries + Bosh
Calderon + Moon + Graham + Humphries + Bargnani
———————————————————————–
Calderon/Parker + Moon/Kapono/Parker + Graham/Moon + Humphries/Bargnani + Bosh
with the flexibility to insert a useful but declining player like Jermaine O’Neal in specific situations only that would have allowed to him to succeed while still emphasizing the need for growth and development by Bargnani.
Something which many unsophisticated NBA observers fail to understand is that … How a team REBOUNDS & DEFENDS is more important than the number of “perimeter shooters” or “skilled ball-handlers” it has in its “starting” 5-Man unit.
That line-up you recommend shows your man love and ignorance because while you seem to remember or research everything ever said, you have no basketball IQ to think a line-up that starts Moon, Humphries, and Graham is a playoff bound team. All three barely belong in the NBA and are pretty much brain dead evn though they’ve all shown flashes of talent. However it would play into your love for Bosh because of course all that would be left is the Jose Bosh love affair of slowing down the game and watching the most miserably slow offence ever ( moderately paced heavy set play offence).
I did not ever to my recollection defer to personal insults on any site before and was really on good behaviour here too for most of my time, but no question the irritating nature of his remarks stir up the worst in me. He is an instigator and a condescending fuck that doesn’t have a life.
sorry … that last sentence should read as:
” … failed to work this season to the tune of 33-49/.402.” : )
On Khandor….
needs to be said one more time
I actually think he is more sad and anoying then anything else.
I love this site and I am all for freedom of speech but Khandor sort of puts a Black cloud on both for me.
With no disrespect to the site. Clearly I do not blame them. Just the self promotion of himself is just pathetic….
Look at me everyone I picked 14 out of 16 teams to make the playoffs in the easiest sports league on the planet to predict playoff teams.
Most of what he says is like a handjob with pants on FUCKING POINTLESS.
Reality Check,
—————————————
Most of what he says is like a handjob with pants on FUCKING POINTLESS. – by Reality Check
—————————————
Is it necessary for YOU to share with everyone else on RR indignities which YOU might have sufferred along the way, such as THAT?
Trying to project YOUR own foibles, knanduct, and personal “short-comings” onto others will not get you very far. : )
[eyebleaf ... Hopefully, you are catching these? : ) ]
…and to be clear, he choose 13 of the 16 teams (he tried to pull a fast one again). A quick glance over predicitons on blog comments shows many people did the same…very unremarkable and pointless.
Or it was a joke Khandor maybe not funny to you and your age bracket but maybe since most of the people on here are my age bracket and maybe they found it funny maybe they did not…
What age bracket would YOU happen to fall into, since YOU brought it up? : )
Khan, c’mon do you really have to ask… 8-12, obviously.
Here’s something for you to consider about “jokes”. It’s the people who’ve actually experienced the type of khanduct referred to in them that “get” the laugh the best. You can’t really laugh at that which you really don’t know. Can you? : )
Actually Khandor I did find it funny because its probably true that you are a depressed loner. People might find what I might have said funny or not. This has nothing to do with my childhood or my experiences as I am very popular and still am and work as a nightclub promoter and in College.
You however are a pretentious know it all who cant even sell himself properly on the internet. I can imagine how people react to you at work or school.
I can laugh at you because you present yourself in that form for people to make fun of
Something for you to consider about jokes:
If I had sex with your mom at some point in life and made a joke about it would it be funny to you or only the 2237 men she fucked?
Do you see what I mean….
Haha
Now if his sister is anything like he is, I don’t think she will be having sex anytime soon
Hey Joe I have to disagree because if his sister was like him she would be a blowjob queen because people would stick anything in her mouth just to get her to shut up.
Khandor: if your thoery is correct then the people who did not fuck your mom would not find this as funny as the 2237 men then who did?
But hey you got 14 out of 16 playoff teams so who cares who fucked her and if she was whore of the century…
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk.
——————————————-
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by pizzaman
——————————————-
re: the things which you seem to hold as being important
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
Hey Khan why are you quoting “Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by pizzaman” when I said no such thing??
Are you asking me to show up too? Or did your cutting and pasting screw you up?
ROFL… that’s really what being successful is, right? Walking around with “a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends “.. and that in turn is clearly as sing of intelligence.
Then again, seeing where you work and narrowing down what you do…explains why you hold that to be the definition of success.
You Sir, are an imbecile.
Flux,you and Khandor should get a room !!!
Who’s the rooster?
You should get a lobotomy.
Maybe your buddy Khan can do a little research here and send in a 300 word essay on what a lobotomy is, and the pros and cons of having one, plus all the possible scenarios and outcomes, and perhaps a few quotes from Cabot, or some other explorer just to show all how intelligent he is or isn’t.
Or maybe we should ask you parents, as they have done plenty of research and perfected the new lobotomy method by dropping you on your head as a baby from various heights and angles.
You’re probably right because I am definitely a better candidate than you for a lobotomy since my head is clear of any obstacles while doing a lobotomy on you would be tougher because the surgeon would likely also get Khan’s balls which happen to be in your mouth.
wow…its sad enough the seasons ended but to have kahndor shit all over this awesome arse post is just another kick in the nuts…..fuck you khandor you cunt….eatadic bitch.
C’mon…tell us how you really feel. :P
…
Nice article Arse. Time to get on a bandwagon until the draft.
Man. Watching Bulls at Celtics, game one. Nice to be watching playoff basketball … but what a pissoff it is (!) at this very moment. How is it (again) that we’re not there … ? Never mind. I know.
I think we all know by now.
Clearly, It is totally Bargnani’s fault.
well, I enjoyed seeing the Bulls win in Boston, anyway. right now, I’d trade Bosh, Bargnani, you and me for Derrick Rose.
in terms of bosh being worth a max contract, if you look here http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm at the 26 players currently making more than him, I would say four (yes 4!!) are more deserving (yao, dirk, duncan, kobe) and of those four I would only rather have two (yao, kobe).
add lebron, wade, howard, paul (maybe roy). but that is IT. as anyone who has played hardcore rotis knows, when you spend big money the most important thing is making sure you don’t get hurt (iverosn, JO, mcgrady (a loser like his cousin), marbury, francis, etc). would you rather have anthony at max? not me.
bosh will never hurt you. I REALLY hope they offer him max and he signs.
tidbit: a wife/girlfriend of a senior raptor’s staffer was sitting next to me. I asked her whether they would sign chris. she smiled and said “I think so”. I liked the way she said it. ymmv :-)
Sign as in sign to an extension this summer?
Or sign as in attempt to sign him in 2010?
If it’s the former, then that’s promising. If it’s the latter, too much can happen between now and then to muster up any sort of excitement. :P
felt like the former to me.
What’s absolutely hilarious is reading what’s written here by someone who can’t seem to count correctly to the number 14.
The Better Half in the NBA: Day 1.
1 Los Angeles Lakers [W1] … A Legendary season awaits [#1]
2 Boston Celtics [E1] … Still the Champs [#2]
3 Detroit Pistons [E2] … Bad Boyz II, under MC [Hammer] [#3]
4 Phoenix Suns [W2] … Sunrise, Sunset, under TP
5 Utah Jazz [W3] … Tried & True [#4]
6 Houston Rockets [W4] … Combustible on any given night [#5]
7 Dallas Mavericks [W5] … letting Freedom Reign, under RC [#6]
8 Orlando Magic [E3] … holding strong with new additions [#7]
9 New Orleans Hornets [W6] … due for a small slip backwards [#8]
10 Portland Trail Blazers [W7] … The 2nd Coming begins [#9]
11 Cleveland Cavaliers [E4] … The King is in the house [#10]
12 Philadelphia 76ers [E5] … major moves this off-season [#11]
13 San Antonio Spurs [W8] … a struggle without Manu [#12]
14 Denver Nuggets [W9] … re-tooling their defense [#13]
15 Chicago Bulls [E6] … expect big things from VDN & ‘Mr. Rose’ [#14]
In addition to those 14 correctly identified playoff teams, what I said in my original comment here was that team #16 on my list October 28th, 2008 was the Atlanta Hawks but the entry which I made that day was designed for 15 teams only [i.e. the better "half" of the 30 in the league].
Either way others wish to count it is fine by me:
a. 14 out of 15 [93.3%]
b. 14 out of 15 + 1 more [Atlanta] = 15 out of 16 [93.8&]
For those who are more officious … even saying 14 out of 16 [87.5%] is okay, in my book.
What’s not okay, however … is someone who can’t seem to count to 14, on their own, in the first place. To that person, I simply offer my sincere sympathy. : (
I’m sorry, but what does you getting 14/15 have to do with anything?
Arun,
IMO, it doesn’t really … except, pehaps, for those who seem to have a difficult time understanding that an opinion which is rendered today, in advance of a specific event and which is related to the outcome of that event can, sometimes, be transformed and become a statement fact after the completion of said event, with the passage of time.
For those people … it can be like a swift kick in the teeth.
Khandor – David Stern just advised me your were disqualiifed from the “competition” as you failed to enter 16 teams in your official entry. LOL.
Raptoronto,
Is counting up to 14 really that difficulty for you?
: ), LOL, : )
Khandor – YOU PICKED DENVER TO COME NINTH in the Western conference. Since when do NINE teams make the playoffs in one conference. You honestly are either completely delusional or a compulsive liar. AGAIN, nice try. Now please post your apology. LOL
——————————————-
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by joe
——————————————-
re: the things which you seem to hold as being important
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
——————————————-
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by Raptoronto
——————————————-
re: the things which you seem to hold as being important
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
——————————————-
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by Andiamo
——————————————-
re: the things which you seem to hold as being important
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
——————————————-
I currently work at Lot 332 and Wetbar nightclub. I will gladly pay for your VIP booth and liquor/guests on the house if you would show up with a bevy of good looking women and even some male friends of yours. No geeks allowed remember. Lets see if your this intelligent popular guy you portray yourself to be
Lets see if you have the courage to walk the walk. – by reality check
——————————————-
re: the things which you seem to hold as being important
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
pizzaman, joe, Andiamo and reality check,
Please accept my apology, in advance, if it turns out that “lumping together” the four of you is offensive in some way. I will try my best from here forward to distinguish accurately one of your voices from the other three. On this occasion, unfortunately, I’ve failed miserably, in that regard. : )
Khandor, that was straight up spam.
Darien,
Spam? Please continue and explain your perspective on that type of claim.
Your douchebagery multiplies with every passing moment.
….you posted the same message like 5 times with virtually no change in content, adding nothing to the “conversation” if we can even call this flying circus one.
And because you won’t take it from me, I pulled a definition from somewhere else (Wikipedia’s article on Spam [electronic]). “Sending an irritating, large, meaningless block of text in this way was called spamming… It later came to be used on Usenet to mean excessive multiple posting—the repeated posting of the same message.”
Are you now going to tell me that your 5 or so posts do not fall into that category?
Oh, Darien, believe you me … there was considerable MEANING in each one of those 5 messages. One for pizzaman. One for joe. One for Raptoronto. One for Andiamo. One for reality check.
In truth, each was different BECAUSE of THAT and FAR removed from being “meaningless”, as required by the definition which you so kindly provided. : )
———-
If need be, Arsenalist will not offend me in the least should he choose to delete each one, but that intended for “joe”.
Perhaps the lengthy delay in response is because certain individuals are practicising how to count up to the number 14. : )
Where is the forum playoff format ????
I’m really enjoying the playoff teams, particularly Chicago and Rose.
I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Pistons and memories their Bad Boyz .. before the Raptors existed. Oh well, the Cavs deserve a good playoff and perhaps even a Championship run against the Lakers.
(Nobody can say the Raptors are even vaguely close to playoff potential after watching these teams … and they are not even watchable with their present roster of losers.)
lol….khandor is a massive douchebag 14 out of every 15 times he posts.
Wow, Khandor, I’ve been called an idiot a few times after posting, I’ve been told I’m dead wrong about things, I’ve been told my posts are boring. And then I moved on. I haven’t hit the site in a few days and then come to a thread based on a good article which turned into you making multiple posts to say something (largely condescending from what little I read) to a bunch of people asking you to stop talking so much.
STOP TALKING SO MUCH. Address a specific issue that seems vaguely related to a previous post or bring up something new. Try to limit yourself to 2-3 paragraphs. If you’ve got more to say I believe you have a website of your own – post long stuff on it. And when people like me can’t take it any more and call you names, either go away or ignore them. The insults and posts about you may cease that way. And by the way, the majority of people who talk about you agree you’re a condescending douchebag. You might want to think about that a bit.
Now that Bulls-Celtics game – glad I had a chance to watch. 3 more games at that level and every team in the East is going to have to worry a lot about Derrick Rose. Now that’s a “franchise player” type performance. And Noah did a lot up until that totally boneheaded foul at the end of regulation.
Sam,
Because you seem to “think” that you have an accurate handle on what “most” think around the RR … you think someone else should do what YOU say? [e.g. go away, reduce their number of posts, shorten their length, etc.]
LOL. : )
FACT … You are free to scroll down at any time. That’s the power which YOU have here. Nothing more, and nothing less. : )
——————————–
If there’s any hilarity here at all it’s that certain individuals like you, pizzaman, joe, Raptoronto, Andiamo and reality check “think” that you [either individually or collectively] have some sort of sway regarding what is considered kosher, and what is not, on the RaptorsRepublic.com.
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
========================================================================
If others wish to speak about basketball … then, by all means, restrict what YOU have to say to that specific topic. You will get no objection from me, in this regard.
However, if YOU [and certain others] cannot deal effectively with what someone else writes here, or what someone else thinks here, or what someone else observes here, either, about the Raptors, or the game of basketball … including yours truly … then, THE FACT IS, you’re plum out of your element, as well as being plum out of your luck. : )
Do you have some sort of sway regarding what is considered kosher, and what is not, on the RaptorsRepublic.com?
I thought the great Khan didn’t get involved in slamming people. Khan you fail to realize that most of us think you’re an idiot and most of us do not frequently slam people, but would rather talk basketball, share opinions, and learn others perspectives. It’s just that you bring out the worst in many of us because you spend huge amounts of time researching anything to support your bogus claims, making anything smart you’ve said seem like a total fluke. You refer to crap that no one even cares about with your verbal diarrhea which eventually makes even the nicest guy want to tell you to go f__k yourself.
While many have different views you actually believe Bosh to be better than Dwight Howard, and that the Raps should have started Hump, Moon, and Graham, which shows you have no clue about basketball…and then you slam BC like you’re smarter!!! Come on loser get a life.
Khandor, you assist with discussion on the site, and I’m sure you love pissing everybody off. I think you’re Kelly Dwyer Shtick is great (”I watch alot of basketball so my opinions are fact,” but somehow Dwyer’s writing is much more appealing). You remind me of a guy on raptorhq, bargsbust……who consistently came on the site and complained about Bargnani saying he was he worst #1 overall and all that, but then disappeared this season when Bargs started to play well.
As an analyst, you create situations that would never be proven, so you can cotinue to tout them as the solution to a team’s problems. For instance, you bring up a raptor line up that you felt would optimize the raptors success.
Here a reasons why this didn’t happen:
- In what world, do you think Kris Humphries would start over a veteran (paid 20 mil), and a #1 pick. Obviously, Ego and Team Chemistry mean nothing to you.
- A line up of Jamario moon, Joey Graham, and Kris Humphries would have
a) limited skill,
b) limited spacing offesively,
c) low basketball iq
- Kris Humphries would feel he was the 3rd option and jack up 10-15 shots a game.
- For all these faults, they still wouldn’t be a superior atheletic/rebounding team.
The proof of Khandor’s pudding is that is never eaten.
Additionally, the fact that you constantly contradict yourself, is the one of the many reasons I shall ignore you from here on out. I know you need an example, so here it is.
Khandor Says:
Sho,
Some [many?] thought that this analysis of the best teams in the NBA this season was off base … and/or comedic gold … when it was first published on my blog back on October 28, 2008.
Atlanta was team #16 in my rankings … with Miami and New Jersey and Indiana and Milwaukee and Charlotte and Washington and New York and Toronto in a similar position fighting to re-establish themselves as a legitimately good team in the EC.
Do you know anyone else operating in the blogosphere who, on October 28, 2008 correctly identified 14 of the 16 teams that would eventually qualify for the 2008-2009 NBA PLayoffs?
If you do, please point that individual out to me. : )
PS. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. – Anonymous
Khandor Says:
Thanks for pointing out Ryan’s work.
The specific task I requested however was to point me in the direction of someone with a “better” performance mark than mine, if there is one, not just someone who achieved a similar result as me. : ).
For Kicks, on April 19th 2009 Im gonna correctly predict 14/16 teams for next season, assuming the NBA is the still the most predictable league in sports.
In the East, Cavs, Celtics, Hawks, Heat, Bulls, 76ers, Raptors
In the West Lakers, Jazz, Houston, Portland, Suns, Spurs, NO, Denver
Anyway Great first season, Raptorsrepublic, hopefully you have a better team to write about next year.
Cheers
Sho,
Would you like to know what type of NBA coach/organization might/would have favoured starting a player with the attributes of Kris Humphries over a player with the attributes of Andrea Bargnani or Jermaine O’Neal, as the front-court running mate to someone with the skill set of Chris Bosh?
Phil Jackson/Mitch Kupchak, Los Angeles Lakers
Gregg Popovich/RC Buford, San Antonio Spurs
Pat Riley/Erik Spoelstra, Miami Heat
Doc Rivers/Danny Ainge, Boston Celtics
Joe Dumars/Michael Curry, Detroit Pistons
Byron Scott/Jeff Bower, New Orleans Hornets
Mike Brown/Danny Ferry, Cleveland Cavaliers
I’ll stop there …
that’s who, IMO.
If you might not have the basketball acumen required to SEE with acuity how “starting” a player like Hump may well have made the Raptors a better team this season than going with either Jermaine O’Neal or Andrea Bargnani … i.e. 33-49/.402 … do not make the mistake of thinking that others with a sophisticated understanding of how the NBA game actually works best are stuck in the same boat as you.
re: evaluating options which will NEVER come to fruition
As someone like phdsteve will attest … there was no one on this site, nor any other for that matter, who felt sure that Anthony Parker could indeed succeed in the role of back-up PG for this year’s team, prior to ME making that specific claim on the RR and on my blog.
Well, you know what? It’s 6 months later, and …
What actually happens in the NBA, or not … I feel safe to say, YOU have no control over … but, the record would seem to indicate that what’s actually suggested by someone LIKE ME, might not be as implausible as certain cacophonic on-line voices, in Raptorville, might care to think.
Where do you get this shit? How do you get off saying that all of those coaches would have started Hump over bargnani… You make countless shit up to support your stupid ass theories..none of which would lead to any kind of a real team. Send me proof that those coaches would do as you say or stop spewing your shit and speaking for others like saying the Olympic coaching staff said Bosh is a better center than Howard when no such thing happened. You cannot just make claims that are not true and then say you’re an expert. What an idiot. Hump will be lucky to get a contract in the NBA.
——————————————-
Send me proof that those coaches would do as you say or stop spewing your shit and speaking for others like saying the Olympic coaching staff said Bosh is a better center than Howard when no such thing happened. You cannot just make claims that are not true and then say you’re an expert. What an idiot. Hump will be lucky to get a contract in the NBA. – by pizzaman
——————————————-
When someone displays a lack of understanding for what I wrote originally in this space like this, is when it’s accurate to describe that person as demonstrating reading comprehension skills in need of improvement.
* If YOU think I said that the USA coaches SAID somewhere that they believed Chris Bosh is a better basketball player and Center than Dwight Howard what you NEED to do first is re-read what I wrote the first time … as that is not what I wrote.
* What I said is that this is what the USA coaches indicated through their actions last summer by using Chris Bosh over Dwight Howard the way they did last summer to win the GOLD MEDAL at the Beijing Olympic Games.
* There’s a slight but important difference there … which, unfortunately, if you cannot SEE it for yourself … speaks to your current reading comprehension skills.
Instead of asking me to prove something which I did not say in the first place, it would be more productive if YOU directed comments toward me related to what I actually said rather than what YOU might happen to THINK I said. : )
Okay you clusterfuck compulsive liar, here is exactly what you said and all I want to know is where the proof is that any of these coaches said starting Hump over Bargnani or O’Neal, with Bosh was what they thought!!
Oh sorry you say the attributes..is that your out to make it look like you have facts and expert backers, so that you can spew your bs.
What attributes exactly does Hump exhibit: jacking up stupid shots? , being overpaid at $3.2 Million, being hugely overated by Raptor fans because he’s a likeable energy guy?
“Would you like to know what type of NBA coach/organization might/would have favoured starting a player with the attributes of Kris Humphries over a player with the attributes of Andrea Bargnani or Jermaine O’Neal, as the front-court running mate to someone with the skill set of Chris Bosh?
Phil Jackson/Mitch Kupchak, Los Angeles Lakers
Gregg Popovich/RC Buford, San Antonio Spurs
Pat Riley/Erik Spoelstra, Miami Heat
Doc Rivers/Danny Ainge, Boston Celtics
Joe Dumars/Michael Curry, Detroit Pistons
Byron Scott/Jeff Bower, New Orleans Hornets
Mike Brown/Danny Ferry, Cleveland Cavaliers
I’ll stop there …
that’s who, IMO.
If you might not have the basketball acumen required to SEE with acuity how “starting” a player like Hump may well have made the Raptors a better team this season than going with either Jermaine O’Neal or Andrea Bargnani … i.e. 33-49/.402 … do not make the mistake of thinking that others with a sophisticated understanding of how the NBA game actually works best are stuck in the same boat as you.”
pizzaman,
So … now, you’re choosing instead to switch over to what I said about Kris Humphries rather than the USA coaches. No, problem. : )
Can you think of/are you aware of any time where those coaches/organizations listed have used specific players as “starters” who were not considered to be amongst the “best 5″ players on their respective rosters? [Hint: I can.]
Can you think of/are you aware of any time where those coaches/organizations listed have used specific players as “key subs” who were considered to be amongst the “best 5″ players on their respective rosters? [Hint: I can.]
There are good reasons why some of those coaches/GMs on that list are considered to be amongst the best in the business … and it has to do with SEEING what’s really there when evaluating NBA players accurately, which individuals like YOU seem to miss, on a regular basis.
sorry pal but you seem to use whatever whenever to support your theories. There is no way in the world than any of those coaches ever would think to start Hump over Bargs and you know that, let alone starting Moon and Graham with him. That starting line-up along with Jose and Bosh would be the absolute worst in the league and would have led to a last pace finish. How can you make good basketball sense and judgement one minute, and then say that a lineup of Jose, Bosh, Hump, Graham, and Moon would have led us to the playoffs? Come on man!
Listen I hate to get down in the trenches and sling mud and call names, but when I get pissed that you constantly send out theoretical expert opinions without the proof and you continue to tell me and others we’re illiterate or cannot comprehend your intelligent words then it’s the same crap as me calling you those names you refer to. You saying I have comprehension and reading problems, is no different than me calling you a moron, asshole, clusterfuck, etc… other than I’m getting to the point. At no time have I ever called anyone else on this site or others foul names. If you think you’re smarter because you can say words like illiterate, or comprehension while I use cuss words then so be it. Problem is I do quite well in life so I must be smarter than you think, even though I am prone to getting pissed at moron comments.
Khan, please send an e-mail to the GM’s and coaches of those teams and ask them yourself (I’m sure they would answer the questions from an NBA expert). Please post their answers on RR for everyone to review.
Sho,
Here’s an offer for you to consider:
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re: For Kicks, on April 19th 2009 Im gonna correctly predict 14/16 teams for next season, assuming the NBA is the still the most predictable league in sports.
In the East, Cavs, Celtics, Hawks, Heat, Bulls, 76ers, Raptors
In the West Lakers, Jazz, Houston, Portland, Suns, Spurs, NO, Denver – by Sho
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Do you have a paypal account?
If you do …
I’ll make you a $100 wager, here and now, that 14 of those 16 teams you just listed will, in fact, NOT qualify for the 2009-2010 NBA Playoffs.
Deal, or No Deal?
: )
sorry … that should as:
“I’ll make you a $100 wager, here and now, that 14 of those teams you just listed will, in fact, NOT qualify for the 2009-2010 NBA Playoffs.”
Sho,
The reason I thanked you initially for pointing out Ryan’s work was because you said that he identified 14 of 16 teams, which is solid, IMO.
If you read back in this thread, however, you should also be able to see that I made 2 requests, not just 1.
The first [comment #10, Regular mode] was to be pointed toward someone who correctly identified 14 of the 16 teams.
The second [comment #17, Regular mode] was to be pointed toward someone who correctly identified “better than” the 14-of-16 teams which were on my published list.
While you satisfied the request in the first comment with what you provided, re: Ryan’s work, you did not satisfy the request in the second comment.
If you happen to think that’s a contradiction on my part, then, so be it.
PS. Forgive me for not identifying accurately the first time which of the two separate requests I made you had not yet satisfied. That’s an error on my part. : )
Damn dude,
Time to take some pills or something.
I normally ignore you but DAMN, a whole shit-load of posts by you. Calm down.
Oh well,
Back to ignoring you. To everybody else, I suggest you do the same if you don’t want to get pissed off.
Statement,
IMO, you’re correct … for certain individuals with loud voices, on-line … it might be best for all concerned if THEY simply choose to ignore the comments left here that do not agree with THEIR opinions about the Raptors, or basketball, in general. The use of the scroll bar is the power which they have. If they do not know how to use it properly that is no one else’s fault but theirs. : )
Why don’t you use your website for your self promotion? Why hijack someone else’s site and make the rest of the readers suffer through your double drivel violations? This post and the comments were supposed to be about Arse’s year end summary and HALF of the posts on here where made by YOU about something you wrote on YOUR BLOG. An NBA Expert of your stature should certainly be able to attract a massive following without having to use devious tactics, no? At least have the courtesy to just post a one liner and a link to your site to satisfy your undying need for others to view your “expert” opinion and then exchange barbs over there. You have your own forum, use it.
Here Here!!
Probably because no one would go to his site to read his dribble.
Pizzaman,
Here’s another fact for you to consider.
Some of the comments which I get on my blog read like this:
“It’s a pleasure to be able to come here and exchange ideas about the Raptors, basketball, and sports, in general, while not having to experience certain individual ‘idiots/morons/numbskulls/etc.’ who cannot express themselves on-line without insulting you [and others] and/or cursing repeatedly and/or derailing otherwise good threads on other sites when confronted with an opinion that is different than their own. Keep doing what you do here and, please, try doing more of it. : ) It’s an oasis which allows me to go for long stretches of time without water as I travail through the desert on-line.”
By-and-large, those who read and contribute to my blog are eternally grateful that specific individuals like YOU, “joe”, “Raptoronto”, “Andiamo” and “reality check”, have no interest in visiting my site. Personally, I do not blame them for feeling this way.
What I believe, however, is that a site like the RaptorsRepublic.com does a fantastic job of fulfilling a wider niche in the on-line community for Raptors fans, in general; and, if Arsenalist, Raps Fan, AltRaps, Dinosty and Realizar, choose to operate their site in a way which also allows certain individuals LIKE YOU to communicate with other Raptors fans it is something which is relatively easy to endure for the greater good.
For those few with an interest in drinking from a different spring of water along the way … they know exactly where they can find me. : )
The individuals who have changed “the focus” of this thread are YOU and certain others, similar to you. Should YOU wish to find fault with what I’ve written here and then attempt to critique it with specific inaccuracies … then, what YOU get is what YOU deserve, where you choose to place that critique. If YOU wish to place the focus on what I’ve written here THAT is YOUR decision/problem, not mine. : )
*13 (you picked Denver to finish ninth in the WC)…and like a sneaky mofo you are trying to pass off your TOP 15 power rankings from Oct 28th as your playoff predictions (no mention of playoffs in the prediction) and you choose 9 WC teams and 6 EC teams. An “NBA Expert” who doesn’t know how many players make the playoffs and that there are two conference (lol). Again nice try.
Now admit you were wrong or you lied.
player=teams*
He will not ever admit he was wrong or even answer this with a straight answer like I’m asking for. The worst part is when he makes bold statements and refers to expert opinions to validate his theories, but makes the expert opinions up based on his own warped view of what experts do at any given point in time. Khandor just cannot stand getting called out on his lies, so if he answers at all it will be with some other refernce to Sir Francis Drake, or Plato, or another pal of his.
Yup, he loves the closed circle argument. He claims allot of things are fact that are completely untrue or simply cannot even be proven (because they are so ludicrous that they will never happen). It’s always fun to expose a fraud.
——————————————
*13 (you picked Denver to finish ninth in the WC)…and like a sneaky mofo you are trying to pass off your TOP 15 power rankings from Oct 28th as your playoff predictions (no mention of playoffs in the prediction) and you choose 9 WC teams and 6 EC teams. An “NBA Expert” who doesn’t know how many players make the playoffs and that there are two conference (lol). Again nice try.
Now admit you were wrong or you lied. – by Raptoronto
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For those who’d prefer to take THAT specific approach …
——————————————
Sho,
Some [many?] thought that this analysis of the best teams in the NBA this season was off base … and/or comedic gold … when it was first published on my blog back on October 28, 2008.
Atlanta was team #16 in my rankings … with Miami and New Jersey and Indiana and Milwaukee and Charlotte and Washington and New York and Toronto in a similar position fighting to re-establish themselves as a legitimately good team in the EC.
Do you know anyone else operating in the blogosphere who, on October 28, 2008 correctly identified 14 of the 16 teams that would eventually qualify for the 2008-2009 NBA PLayoffs?
If you do, please point that individual out to me. : )
PS. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. – Anonymous – by khandor
——————————————-
there’s a reason I included the Atlanta Hawks [team #16, for me, on Oct 28, 2008] in comment #10 [Regular mode].
As such, to what I’ve already added above in comment #115 [Regular mode]:
——————————————-
comment #115
Either way others wish to count it is fine by me:
a. 14 out of 15 [93.3%]
b. 14 out of 15 + 1 more [Atlanta] = 15 out of 16 [93.8&]
For those who are more officious … even saying 14 out of 16 [87.5%] is okay, in my book. – by khandor
——————————————-
know that I have no problem adding in the following perspective, as well:
d. 6 out of 6, EC [100%] + 7 out of 8, WC [87.5%] = 13 out of 14 [92.9%];
should YOU wish to leave out the Denver Nuggets [W9] completely,
while acknowledging that it then becomes 13 out of 14 + 1 more [Atlanta/E7] = 14 out 15 [86.7%], when the Hawks are included; and, 14 out 15 + 1 more [Denver/W9] = 15 out of 16 [93.8%], when the Nuggets are included. : )
What! Now your lying to cover a lie. You can’t include a team you picked to finish 9th in their conference (Denver). You can’t include a team you didn’t even choose on the list at all (Atlanta).
You actaully posted this that same day:
“IMO … there are a number of teams across the League that could easily slide in the #16 slot, or even higher …
[for example]
LA Clippers, Minnesota, Indiana, Toronto, New Jersey, New York, Golden State, etc.” – Khandor. Where’s Atlanta?
The fact is…you lied about your “score”, and now your lying again to cover your ass (why?), just admit it. Either that or you have no clue how the NBA works even on the simplest of levels. 13/16, bravo your average, nothing wrong with that (unless you claim to be an NBA expert, then you’re a fraud).
————————————————————–
What! Now your lying to cover a lie. You can’t include a team you picked to finish 9th in their conference (Denver). You can’t include a team you didn’t even choose on the list at all (Atlanta).
You actaully posted this that same day:
“IMO … there are a number of teams across the League that could easily slide in the #16 slot, or even higher …
[for example]
LA Clippers, Minnesota, Indiana, Toronto, New Jersey, New York, Golden State, etc.” – Khandor. Where’s Atlanta?
The fact is…you lied about your “score”, and now your lying again to cover your ass (why?), just admit it. Either that or you have no clue how the NBA works even on the simplest of levels. 13/16, bravo your average, nothing wrong with that (unless you claim to be an NBA expert, then you’re a fraud). – by Raptoronto
————————————————————–
LOL, : )
Q1. Where’s Atlanta?
A1. Ahead of the teams I chose to list in that specific comment on my blog.
Those teams [including bottom-feeders like the Clips, Minn & G-State] were listed to illustrate a specific point … i.e. just how far down the totem pole the Raptors were possibly going to finish during the 2008-2009 season, not because they were thought to be superior to the Atlanta Hawks.
Maybe you skipped the part in one of my earlier comments in that thread that reads like this:
————————————————————–
It says here that there are several teams that might be able to slide quite easily into that #15 slot in the NBA this season, e.g. LA Clippers, Indiana, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington, New Jersey, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc. … but of those the Bulls might just be the best team which under-achieved far below their actual ability last season, felled by an unfortunate set of circumstances. – by khandor
—————————————————————
Do you SEE Atlanta’s name there?
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
[and, btw, just because I listed the the Clips, Ind, Tor, Wash, NJ, Mil, Min, etc., alongside the Hawks there does not mean that I would have chosen any one of them as being better suited for spot #15 in my originally published list, or #16, if I would have gone with that many teams in the first place.]
Where does it say Altanta is your 16th pick? Nowhere. I win you lose, again. :p
*13
I almost lost a diamond in the rough:
Calderon
Moon
Graham
Humphries
Bosh
this starting five, all healthy for 82 games and playing 30-35 minutes per night, under mitch, would have won for us the number 1 pick easily…
you won me over when you said that bosh is the new bill russell…than you topped that by saying that bosh is better than fucking dwight howard.the men that averaged 20-20 against bosh in the playoffs…
you’re the best comedian…oscar-worthy
Hey Khandor I asked this above without an answer from you. I can understand why you would not want to answer me on anything I ask, however due to your self proclaimed expertness, I would think you would want everyone to know where you got these facts about the coaches opinions on starting Hump over Bargnani! What do you say?
“Where do you get this shit? How do you get off saying that all of those coaches would have started Hump over Bargnani… You make countless shit up to support your stupid ass theories..none of which would lead to any kind of a real team. Send me proof that those coaches would do as you say or stop spewing your shit and speaking for others like saying the Olympic coaching staff said Bosh is a better center than Howard when no such thing happened. You cannot just make claims that are not true and then say you’re an expert. What an idiot. Hump will be lucky to get a contract in the NBA.”
——————————–
Khan, please send an e-mail to the GM’s and coaches of those teams and ask them yourself (I’m sure they would answer the questions from an NBA expert). Please post their answers on RR for everyone to review. – by Raptoronto
——————————–
Thanks for the suggestion but …
I’ll choose to keep the emails which I exchange with NBA GMs and coaches, etc., in the category under which they were sent to me, in the first place, i.e. as private correspondence.
While you might not have the same access that I do … what you’ll learn, should you ever be so fortunate to exchange this type of communication with people of this nature, is that they are very friendly and take pleasure in sharing their ideas about the game, and life, in general, with others. Even others like you. : )
pizzaman,
—————————————
sorry pal but you seem to use whatever whenever to support your theories. There is no way in the world than any of those coaches ever would think to start Hump over Bargs and you know that, let alone starting Moon and Graham with him. That starting line-up along with Jose and Bosh would be the absolute worst in the league and would have led to a last pace finish. How can you make good basketball sense and judgement one minute, and then say that a lineup of Jose, Bosh, Hump, Graham, and Moon would have led us to the playoffs? Come on man! – by pizzaman
—————————————
It’s no problem whatsoever when you have that to say about something which I’ve written.
You and I simply see the game differently. I might think that your perspective reveals an unsophisticated level of understanding about how the NBA game actually works; while you might feel the exact same way about my perspective. If you’d like to ask me a question, to further understand my perspective … then, no problem. If not, so be it.
—————————————
Listen I hate to get down in the trenches and sling mud and call names, – by pizzaman
—————————————
Then, by all means, don’t do it. You do have a choice, you know?
—————————————
but when I get pissed that you constantly send out theoretical expert opinions without the proof and you continue to tell me and others we’re illiterate or cannot comprehend your intelligent words then it’s the same crap as me calling you those names you refer to. You saying I have comprehension and reading problems, is no different than me calling you a moron, asshole, clusterfuck, etc… other than I’m getting to the point.
—————————————
Actually, no, IMO, they’re not equivalent, at all. Getting to the point is not what you’re concerned with, IMO, when you choose to write those things, in that way.
—————————————
At no time have I ever called anyone else on this site or others foul names. If you think you’re smarter because you can say words like illiterate, or comprehension while I use cuss words then so be it. Problem is I do quite well in life so I must be smarter than you think, even though I am prone to getting pissed at moron comments. – by pizzaman
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1. It’s a good thing that you have the ability to khanduct yourself without calling others names. I think you should use this ability all the time.
2. I’m glad you do quite well in life and are a smart person. I have never said that I think you are not a smart person, or that you are someone who does not do well in your life.
In general, when you write a comment like this one, I have no problem with what you might have to say here at all. : )
Khan – I was surrounded by professional/high level athletes and coaches for most of my life so spare me your false bravado (you’d be sniffing my jock if I let you)…and your correspondence with current NBA executives is laughable fiction.
——————————-
Where does it say Altanta is your 16th pick? – by Raptoronto
——————————-
In comment #10.
LOL. : )
—————————————
Khan – I was surrounded by professional/high level athletes and coaches for most of my life – by Raptoronto
—————————————
If you say so … I will take you at your word. : )
I would also hazard an educated guess, however, that the sport in question was not basketball. [Am I right? or, am I wrong? Either, Yes or No, will do just fine.]
—————————————
so spare me your false bravado (you’d be sniffing my jock if I let you)… – by Raptoronto
—————————————
And … YOU think that I’m the one with the FALSE bravado. : )
—————————————
and your correspondence with current NBA executives is laughable fiction. – by Raptoronto
—————————————
Yes, I’m sure YOU’D like to think that it is.
ROTFLOLWKAS, : )
YOU have the worst comebacks I’ve ever heard.
Brasky,
re: the worst comebacks
They’re not intended to be comebacks.
All too frequently, comebacks involve insults, name calling, and/or cursing. In contrast, what I write does not involve that. If it fails to please you … it’s a good thing you have use of the scroll bar. : )
my scroll bar broke because of this thread
RIP