tripled?

So, too, do I happen to believe that it is possible to win playoff games with Bargnani as your starting Center, which is the reason I’ve compared him to Laimbeer in the past, including Il Mago’s mean streak which most other NBA observers have in fact failed to identify accurately, as of yet. The more he plays, however, the more others will eventually be able to see for themselves, 2 or 3 years after-the-fact it was mentioned first by yours truly.

What it requires however is a total commitment to a type of basketball which is very difficult to succeed with in today’s NBA, and which involves not just rebounder/defenders at the wing positions but throughout a team’s lineup, including a special kind of PG … who Jose Calderon is not.

In comparison with the opportunity to build around a solid under-sized multi-dimensional Center, like Chris Bosh, it’s a no-brainer decision for a Top Notch GM in the NBA. Relatively speaking it’s much easier and more practical, and more counter-intuitive, etc., in today’s NBA environment to attempt to build around a Center like Bosh, when Jose Calderon is already in the fold here.

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My specific reference to James Edwards as a back-up Center in this league applied to only his first 2 years with Detroit, when the Pistons reached the NBA Finals and lost [1987-1988] and then won their first title [1988-1989]. These were the two seasons in which he came off the bench for them, at the #5/C position, in support of Bill Laimbeer, who was THE Center on their team.

IMO, Bargnani does not fit into this category of player. Edwards was an “interior scorer” who came into the game as a replacement for Laimbeer, who was a perimeter jump-shooter that could rebound and defend his position, plus was a world-class thug.

My reference to James Edwards, as a successful back-up Center on the Pistons did not refer to his role on their 1989-1990 title-winning team, nor the subsequent season [when they failed to reach the NBA Finals], as he was the starting Power Forward on that team, who they happened to play in the Low Post on Offense, with Bill Laimbeer still functioning as their starting Center.

IMO, however, Bargnani does not fit into this category of player/starting #4/PF, either.

Bargnani is not an effective Interior Scorer, like James Edwards was, nor is he an effective Rebounder, as a starting Power Forward, for a championship calibre team like the Bad Boyz were 20 years ago … with players like Laimbeer, Rodman, Dumars, Thomas and Salley lining up beside him.

That said … IMO, it is very difficult to win playoff games with this type of player at either the #4/PF or the #5/C spot, unless he is coming off the bench with your 2nd Unit, ala James Edwards [from the Bad Boyz].

as calling Bargs and Edwards “the same type of player” whom it is difficult to win playoff games with unless they are coming off the bench…

I agree that the Pistons played a highly physical brand of defence, but with changes to the way defence is now called, particularly with respect to hard fouls in the lane (previously just two shots, now flagrants) and hand-checking, that style is much more difficult to win with these days. That being said I think it is entirely possible to win playoff games with Bargs as your starting centre (playing a similar role to what Laimbeer did on offence, with the obvious need for more rebounding at the 3 and 4 spots than was required with Laimbeer)

1. If you ask Arsenalist, and/or check the record yourself … what you’ll see is that the first person on this site, and perhaps in the entire blogosphere, to actually make the comparison of Andrea Bargnani to Bill Laimbeer was in fact none other than me.

2. The reason I said it is difficult, rather than impossible, to win the championship with a player like Bargnani, either as a Starter or coming off the bench, is because of what the Bad Boyz were in fact able to accomplish.

What others need to understand, however, is:

A. The specific type of basketball which those grind-it-out, thuggish, defensive-oriented, half-court, set-based Detroit Pistons teams HAD TO PLAY, in order to get the job done with a player like Bill Laimbeer as their Center;

and, that

B. Andrea Bargnani [perimeter shooting power-based] is not a Center of James Edwards’ ilk [power-based interior Turn-arround Jumpshot scorer], nor is he that same type of Power Forward.

1. You said it is difficult to win playoff games with a player like Bargs starting, comparing him to James Edwards who “came off the bench”;
2. James Edwards started on the championship team in 1989/1990 (so your statement referred to above was, as you would put it, WRONG, as Edwards did not come off the bench in 1989/1990);
3. In my opinion (and I know what other people say is an opinion and what you say, as you would put it, is FACT) a more suitable comparison is of Laimbeer to Bargs (which is also not without it’s difficulties, but they are much more similar players than Edwards and Bargs).

Again, saying these things to someone who makes blog posts with titles “Making another correct call, in advance, regarding the Toronto Raptors” without any sense of irony is a waste of time, but call me a masochist…

Justifiable. : )

1987-1988
1988-1989
1989-1990
1990-1991

James Edwards was a Center in the NBA.

During the Pistons’ 3-yr run to the NBA Finals:

1987-1988 … he played as a back-up Center, behind Bill Laimbeer
1988-1989 … he played as a back-up Center, behind Bill Laimbeer
1989-1990 … he started as a Power Foward, beside Bill Laimbeer

During the 1990-1991 season, when the Pistons failed to reach the NBA Finals, James Edwards [PF] again started beside Laimbeer [C].

One of the few problems with the RR is that certain rigid thinking individuals waste considerable time trying to establish the fact that my thinking about something specific doesn’t conform with their perception of the actual facts of a situation when the record shows that it is most frequently the other way around. Then they try to make believe further that the person who they’ve wrongly accused of hijacking that specific thread is in fact the person whose information/opinion is factually correct, in the first place. Then they sometimes play make believe, again, and try to suggest that the person without due credibility in that thread is that same person.

The problem, in this instance, is with YOUR perception that James Edwards was something other than a Center, in the NBA, just because he happend to play his final 2 years in Detroit as a starter beside Bill Laimbeer, who was also a Center.

The fact is, however … when it comes to understanding correctly who those Bad Boyz actually were … Bill Laimbeer was THE Center and nobody else even came close to supplanting him as the focal point in their front-court, while Zeke provided the Leadership in their back-court, as his long-time battery mate.

You [and others] are free to disagree with my opinion, in this regard, if you wish … until your heart’s content, in fact … unfortunately, for you, it won’t make your opinion right in the judgment of those who best understand How The NBA Game Actually Works, i.e. coaches, players, and GMs.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. – Anonymous

PS. When it comes to seeing BOTH the forest and the trees, simultaneously, while accounting for the need for specificity, some people have a hard time with the fact that others might actually know something about the NBA game which they themselves do not. : )

– oh Khandar just when I thought your arrogance knew no bounds. You set the bar a notch higher.

re. the blazers…oden over durant? justifiable? miss? huge mistake?

Did you say something about my thinking being stuck in a time warp of sorts?

LOL. : )

The Blazers are an example of a contemporary team … with players that some people have a difficult time categorizing accurately. I do not fit into that type of thinking.

If you couldn’t figure that out for yourself … well, that’s a shame.

——————————————-

Maybe YOU are not an “NBA expert” but, thankfully, you are also not a very good judge of who else is.

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re: Buddha vs Laimbeer

1989-1990
When you look at this Box Score, what do you see?

Do you see both James Edwards and Bill Laimbeer in the Pistons starting line-up?

If you do, which one do think was playing Center and which one was playing Power Forward?

1988-1989
Now when you look at this Box Score, what do you see?

Do you see Bill Laimbeer in the starting line-up and James Edwards coming off the bench?

1987-1988
When you look at this Box Score, what do you see?

Do you see Bill Laimbeer in the Pistons’ starting line-up and James Edwards coming off the bench?

FACT IS … Bill Laimbeer was the starting Center for each of the 3 years James Edwards was a member of the Pistons, including both of Detroit’s Bad Boyz NBA Championship-winning teams; while James Edwards came off the bench for their losing effort in 1988 and their first title in 1989, and played as their starting Power Forward for their second ring in 1990.

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re: assessing Bargnani’s skill set

IN FACT … most of my assessment points DO NOT coincide with yours.

…and once again you completely ignore facts when they oppose your opinion. James Edwards was a starter in 89-90 (second of two championships)…he played limited minutes the year of the first championship but he was far more instrumental as a starter in winning the second chip. Why ignore this when it far more significant then his limited minutes the year prior (because it goes against your stated opinion? Again, one of the reasons many get frustrated with you).

“Bargnani is a perimeter power-based #5/Center.” – K….where’s the power in your assessment? I agree with most of your points (as they mirror mine) but Bargs runs the floor quite well for a center and his dribble drive/finishing at the rim improved greatly during the season. Khandor you’re sleeping on this guy and as a Raptor fan I hope you hope that I’m right and you are wrong.

IMO, there is no “one” ideal of anything in this world.

Each of Russell, Reed, Abdul-Jabbar, Cowens, Chamberlain, Walton, Sikma, Unseld, Parrish, Malone, Olajuwon, Duncan, and O’Neal have been terrific Centers in the History of the NBA; while the same thing can be said for the likes of Lucas-J, Lucas-M, Silas, Hayes, McHale, Worthy, Rodman, Grant-Ho, Robinson, and Horry, as high calibre Power Forwards.

If I had my pick of all-time Centers and Power Forwards, respectively, I would gladly settle for players with the skill sets of The Great Bill Russell or Hakeem “The Dream” Olajuwon, and the mostly under-rated Dennis “The Worm” Rodman or “Big Game” James Worthy.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Avery = BC turns the roster over to a demanding coach who will do what he thinks needs to be done to win. If he fails Avery would be the scapegoat and BC would be totally off the hook. (see: Sam Mitchell)

Triano (or any other minimally experienced coach) – puppet coach for BC who can be controlled to some degree. BC is therefore moreso on the hook if the expirament fails.

The evil you know or the evil you dont….