phdsteve’s all for Iverson. Is he making sense or has he lost his mind?Last week on the the Fan 590 Bryan Colangelo confirmed that his preference would be to spend the off-season plugging minor holes rather than blowing this team up and that he would like to start next season with Bargnani, Bosh, Marion, and Calderon as 4 of his 5 starters. I think it is also pretty safe to assume that Triano will return as the team’s head coach. For those of you who read my columns on even an occasional basis, you know that these are not ideas that I am the biggest supporter of. However, without digressing into a discussion of should we trade Bosh or Bargnani, or how do we unload Banks and Humphries, or who should be the next coach, lets pretend that Colangelo is actually telling the truth. The question on every fan’s mind now is how to fix this team without blowing it all up?
Well, lets begin with what we already know about the team and its current assets.
Bosh, Bargnani and Marion are a top-notch front court comparable with any team in the league. If you watch Bargnani, Marion and Bosh play together, it becomes obvious that the Raptors have a combination of size, speed, and athleticism in their front court that meshes very well and has the ability to trade off in defensive assignments depending on the opposing teams matchups. Even without accounting for their recent win streak, there has been a nice level of productivity from the three in team play as Marion has proven to be a nice addition to this team. He is hands down better than Graham, Ariza, or any of the other “lower-cost” replacements that fans have talked about buying in the open market. When you consider the fact that he looks to take a 7-9 million dollar pay-cut and still be happy, Marion appears to be a perfect side dish to a main order of Bosh and Bargnani.
And for those fans who are still upset about the cost to get him here, think about it this way: if in 2007, Marion (before he was traded from a 65 win Suns teams where he was considered a core piece) was traded for a then injured TJ Ford (with Calderon being talked about as a possible all-star choice at the time), Nesterovic, Moon, and 2 first round draft picks – would you have been upset? Maybe, but I would have been okay with it then and I am still okay with it now (Ed’s note: I’m not).
When he is healthy Calderon has shown why he is an excellent sidekick to Bosh and Bargnani. Sure, there are some obvious holes in Calderon’s game (like his perimeter defense which has looked sketchy all season and his need to play in a half court set). However, when he takes his defender off the dribble and sticks his jumper like he has been able to do with real consistency over the last 3 weeks, then he punishes defences who try to cheat either above or below the screen when we run the high screen with Bosh – and this makes guarding Bosh very difficult. For Calderon to be really successful, this team needs to add a secondary ball handler. Someone who can control the offense for 10-15 minutes a night to relieve some of the pressure off of Calderon’s legs. Earlier I had argued for drafting a top-notch point guard in the draft, like Ty Lawson who should be available at 8 or 9 when the Raptors select. Now, I’m thinking that the Raptors could solve two problems with one Answer by using their cash this summer to sign a starting SG who can also play the point.
I think Allen Iverson would be the ideal candidate. Not only could he run the offense when Calderon is on the bench, but he could play the off guard on offense when Calderon is in the game. In fact, Iverson is precisely the kind of “slasher” this team needs at the 2, since he is a deadly scorer who has the ability to collapse the defence and get to the free throw line. He is tough as nails, and demands toughness from his mates as well. The two big issues with Iverson are his defence and why he would pick Toronto? Iverson wants to start, and there are not too many teams out there willing to give him that chance. Toronto could offer Iverson 40 minutes a night, where he starts at the 2 beside Calderon (and they switch up on defence, so that Iverson guards the quicker, smaller guards and Jose guards the taller, SGs – thus eliminating both players’ defensive weaknesses) and then plays the point for 10 minutes a night when Calderon rests. When you couple that with the fact that after making 21 million last season, Iverson looks to be lucky to get an offer close to the mid level, and that getting a player like Ben Gordon looks to cost in the 10 million dollar range, why wouldn’t you sign Iverson for roughly 7 million and draft a shooting guard with huge upside, like DeRozan to grow into the position? Iverson may actually welcome the opportunity to come to Toronto to prove his many critics wrong, especially since he stands to make more money and get more minutes than he would anywhere else.
So, assuming that Marion and Iverson can each be retained for slightly more than the mid-level exemption (which was $5.5 million for the 08-09 Season), then the starting 5 players for the Raptors next season would account for roughly 45 million dollars of cap space.
| 1. | Bargnani | C- 6, 527, 490 |
| 2. | Bosh | PF- 15, 779, 912 |
| 3. | Marion | SF- Approx 7, 000, 000 |
| 4. | Iverson | SG- Approx 7, 000, 000 |
| 5. | Calderon | PG- 8 ,219, 009 |
This leaves roughly 15 million to deal with your bench. However, as we all know, championship caliber teams require a bench that has depth but also some skilled players including including a scoring 6th man. 15 million is not a lot of money to spend on the bench, especially once you consider that it’s already taken up by the contracts of Kapono, Humphries, Ukic and on retaining Jawai, Pops, and Voshkul, in addition to the #1 pick this spring. However, if we finally use some of our assets the right way, this team has the ability to fill most of its current holes. For example, if Humphries and Kapono can find a consistent productive role under Triano, it would solve a lot of issues.
For the Raptors, Delfino could potentially be that 6th man and could return to the NBA for a contract in the 3 million dollar range. If Delfino doesn’t work out, then the Raps would do well to renounce his rights and use the money to try and attract a player like a Bobby Jackson from Sacramento for roughly the same number.
| Sixth Man | Delfino or Jackson | G- Approx 3, 000, 000 |
| First big off the bench- | Pops | F -Approx 850, 000 |
| 3 pt specialist | Kapono | ? 6, 212, 960 |
| Serviceable back up | Humphries | F 3, 000, 000 |
| Serviceable back up | Ukic | G 1, 350, 000 |
| Serviceable back up | Voshkul | Bench 875, 409 |
| 2009 draft pick | Cap hold for #8 pick | Aprrox 1,900, 000 |
| Press Box | Jawai | 736, 420 |
| Press Box | Banks | 4, 464,000 |
As for Kapono, if you are not trading Bosh or Bargnani, it will be very tough to unload Kapono’s contract. So any fix to this team will require finding better production from Kapono. I admit, I was wrong about Kapono, I really thought that a large part of the problem was the way Mitchell used him (or didn’t) but Kapono has been unable to find his game under Triano and that suggests that the Raptors can’t use him as anything more than a 3 point specialist. He cannot start and he is not the answer to “sixth man” issue. Having said that, all championship teams need a 3 point specialist.
So this would account to roughly 23 million on the bench, which would place the Raptors over the cap with a total team salary in 65-68 million dollar range. But, this would still leave them just slightly under the luxury tax threshold and below the 70 million dollars a year they committed to the team in 08-09.
This is not the only way to fix this team, but given Colangelo’s expressed desire to keep the core of this team intact and give it a go again next year, it appears to be a plausible solution that should have the Raptors contending again in the East in 2009-10.
COACHING
Just as a quick side-note, lots has been made about Triano and his likely return next season . If so, look for two of the names on the list of potential replacements for
Triano to occupy the seats next to him on the bench as lead assistants. Rumours have both Marc Iavaroni (former D’Antoni assistant in Phoenix and Grizzlies Head coach) and Ettore Messina (the most successful non-NBA coach ever) being hired as Triano’s right hand men for next season. It sure puts Triano in a bit of an awkward position because he would feel them breathing down his neck after every loss but if it adds a strategy to this team, why not?
As always, standing in the key, I’m the Dr. I’ve got my feet planted and I’m planning on taking a charge!
phdsteve
106 Raps
Ehhh. I would rather spend that 7 million and get more volume.
I think with a proper coaching system we won’t need an off guard who could create their own shot…but rather someone who could just play pesky defense and cut properly (I.e. A corey brewer type). I think ariza could do that for cheaper while allowing the raptors to stengthan the bench by drafting an NBA ready wing (Henderson) and a solid backup pg. Or vice versa.
Or take the money and make a play on varajeo to be the first/only big off the bench.
Cheers Steve … nice article.
http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/raptors-republic-iverson-answer-raptors-problems-7442.html
What happened to parker?
If we re-sign him it’ll be to come off the bench as a key rotation player.
I see where you are going with Iverson as he does fill a number of needs for this team (ie. slashing, scoring, toughness). Here are my concerns however.
1) He is me first. As you have seen in Detroit, he is not interested in winning but being the reason why the team is winning. Anybody who knows the game knew that Detroits best option would be to bring Iverson off the bench where he could expose second string PG’s and SG’s, and dominate the ball which is really the only way he is successful. Instead he takes it as an insult, sulks and complains, and the rest is history.
2) You can’t plug a guy like Iverson into a current system, because he is effective when he can dribble for 16 seconds then decide whether he should score or pass. The only way this works is if a) he is willing to come off the bench (which his ego cannot fathom) b) if he starts for a strong defensive team loaded with role players so he can play 1 on five and they can pick up and gabage points and hold the opposition at bay while he scores 30 points on 9-25 shooting.
I really like the guy, he is little guy who dominated a sport of giants for many years, but those days are in the past. He spent years getting teams to conform to play his style of ball, if he is not willing to conform his style then he will take away much more than he can provide for any team.
great article. looks good on paper but i could see myself losing my hair with ai and bosh on the floor together. they’re 2 of the biggest ball stoppers in the league. the offense would have no flow at all, and bargs would see the ball even less than he does now which is a huge problem for us seeing as he should be the number 1 option on this team.
the only thing i like about ai for us would be his steals, but i dont think that would make up for the overall shitty D in our backcourt.
i like hedo or ben gordan for us next year..
I agree 100% Bargs doesnt see the ball enough and really should be the number 1 option. He never really gets a chance to get comfortable in the game
Calderon would get abused trying to defend 2-guards. It would be horrifying.
I agree with most others…Iverson in theory sounds good. Iverson in reality will never agree to play the style that fits him/his team best at this stage of his career. He’s like JO, can’t adapt his game to suit his diminished athleticism.
Remember when Smitch put Calderon on Kobe during his 81 point de-pantsing of the Raps?
That certainly was horrifying.
Smitch should have been fired for that alone.
How are AI and Bosh going to coexist? The twin black-holes. They will combine to take 80% of our shots.
My preference would be to sign David Lee away from NY and trade Bosh for Monta Ellis and pick(s). Probably a pipe dream though.
You know I dig Monta so I’m for that.
But Iverson is an interesting proposition. No doubt he’s a great slasher, very good work-ethic and a high-impact player when he’s healthy but the coaching would have to be tremendous for him and Bosh to coexist because of how much they need the ball (Even though Bosh is best when he doesn’t have the ball and is playing the garbage man role and doesn’t have the pressure of carrying the offensive load).
Question is, after we got burned by JO do we really want to go that route again?
Good work ethic? Are we talking about PRAC-tice?!?
LOL Birdman took the words right out of my mouth…er fingers.
Just say no to guys with two letter monikers…
Ok so I have been thinking a lot about what BC can do to improve this team.
How about we trade Bosh and Kapono to the Jazz for Brewer and Boozer? Obviously this would necessitate the Jazz signing and trading Booz. But think about it. Boozer is only 27, turning 28 soon. He is a legitimate low post option who can run the pick and roll. Also, he needs room to operate in the post and is used to playing with Okur. Bargs’ game is similar to that of Okur, with an even larger upside.
Brewer would be an excellent pickup for the Raps coupled with another athletic guard we could draft.
What do you all think?
Interesting thought.
If it’s all the same I’d rather have Bosh than Boozer, younger, more up-side and less of a problem child. I’d rather the best player on the Raptors not be a PF but a G, it makes for more exciting ball, better fourth quarter offense and generally better ball distribution. Haven’t seen much of Boozer this year but one of the things I hate about Bosh is how bad he is at recognizing the double and kicking out to the RIGHT player out of one. We all know about the “wait for 7 seconds without making a move” move and it’s something you’ll see far less of with a guy who can score off the bounce.
So yeah, no to Boozer.
Boozer is a problem child?
That’s not what I meant really, but remember his contract saga with Cleveland? That always stuck with me about him.
Ah.. so what you meant was that he was an asshole :)
and he’s kinda pulling sketchy shit in utah….talking himself about the possibility of opting out.
i used to think he was a beast…but he’s become a lot less reliable…i would keep bosh over boozer 9 out of 10 times.
i liked the david lee/monta suggestion…i would just beg the good lord to give us anthony randolph too.
i know it was the 6 game win streak…but it really got me thinking that this team isnt as bad as their record indicates (only by 4 or 5 games)…and if calderon can stay in front of his man…then we can stay in the top 6 of the east….of course that is if we were able to get some REAL depth and a reliable (not amazing) starting 2 guard.
of course…id be just as happy (prolly a little more) blowing it up and starting anew (my personal MO).
on one hand, he screwed over a blind guy. on the other hand, you can’t get more killer instinct than that…
I agree with you Arse, but you are not going to get back an All Star for Bosh. Who would give up a talented wing player with the upside and fourth quarter offence that you talk about? There are only a handful of players like that in the league and their teams are not looking to move them! JJ coming here? Not a chance!
Let’s be realistic about what we could get for Bosh in a trade. I’m not saying Booz is the answer to the Raps problems. Obviously it would be great to have a guard like that who can distribute the ball. But at least with my trade scenario we could get back what we are giving up, dump Kapono, and pick up a young talented wing. I really like the idea of getting Brewer. Maybe another scenario involving the Jazz? How about AK and Brewer?
Golden State has already hinted that they’ll make a play for Bosh in the summer, I say we wait and see what they have to offer before signing Iverson, trading Bosh for Boozer or whatever. I disagree with you about Bosh’s trade value, I think we can get a guy who’s an All-Star or on the cusp of being one for Bosh.
What’s up with your love for Ronnie Brewer? Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy but he sounds like a Byron Russell – take him out of the Utah system and he’ll struggle. Add Chris Morris, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Gordon Giricek to that list too.
Really Arse? You think that by trading Bosh the Raps coud get another all star of the kind you are talking about? One that could potentially help the Raptors take over a game in the 4th quarter and dominate the ball to make plays and distribute to others. Who do you have in mind?
First lets list all the guys who would fit this discripton but the Raps have no chance of obtaining because their teams would be crazy to trade them for a PF like Bosh.
Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Pierce
Ginobili
Parker
D Williams
C Paul
JJ
Billups
Durant
Granger (he’s not as high a caliber player, but his team would never trade him for Bosh)
Now we can list second tier guards that MAY be able to fit the discription you made. (and some of these are even a stretch and should have been included above)
Rip Hamilton
Melo
Harris
Carter
Ray Ray
Bibby
I’m open to suggestions but you can see my point here. I wouldnt mind getting Melo or Rip or Harris, but I doubt their teams would trade them for Bosh.
Feedback?
It drives me nuts to know this, but the guy that the Raps could really use and has the exact skills we need, is Vince Carter.
(I don’t mean trade Bosh for him….just saying)
This is true. Had we drafted Wade instead of CB4 Carter would have had another NBA ready scorer and would never have bolted. We had the front court back then to make it work with those two amazing guards.
I should also have added Roy to my list of unattainable guards that we will never get for Bosh.
Or if Carter has just stuck it out another year until Bosh developed we’d have a great inside/outside combo plus Calderon and whoever else was drafted since then.
I would have loved to have seen the Raptors try and turn around Marion immediately after acquiring him, in particular trying to send Marion to the Nets in return for Vince Carter. The Nets where heavily considering expiring contracts for Vince, and that trade would have had a great chance at going through.
Vince Carter + Chris Bosh + Jose Calderon = Very nice core to a potential contender in the East for the next few years.
I disagree. I think there’s several players on that list who’s teams would heavily consider trading in order to acquire Chris Bosh — Danny Granger, Chauncey Billups, Manu Ginobili, and probably everyone on that second tier guards list … and less likely but their teams would consider it — Tony Parker and Joe Johnson.
There is no way I could live with Iverson on this team for more than 1 season. He’s not a team player. He’s got the same attitude (character complex) as TJ Ford, x100.
He didn’t fit in with the Pistons and they have a very similar roster as ours and asked him to play the same role we’d want. The fact he didn’t fit with Pistons is proof that we wouldn’t fit in with the Raps.
As for a Bosh trade to GSW, I figured Biedrins was the “deal breaker” in any deal involving Golden State. But if the media accounts are true that BC turned him down for Bosh at the deadline, than perhaps he isn’t.
My trade proposal to the GSW:
Bosh: $15+
Kapono: $6+
2009 Pick: $1.7 (we’d pick for them, like we did last year for Indiana) *Provided we don’t get the #1 pick/Griffin
for
Biedrins: $10+
Ellis: $11+
Belineli: $1.7
Ellis would bring the exact same skill set as Iverson, but wouldn’t bring the drama-baggage and he is around 10 years younger. If GSW accepted this offer, we’d than have a very well-rounded starting core, all of whom are under contract for the next 4+ years (figuring Bargs re-signs for Okafor/Biedrins money) and have an average age of about 26 years old.
If I were the Warriors GM (Mullen or Owner), I would have to counter by requiring that Crawford and Calderon be included in the deal involving Bosh for Biedrins/Ellis. Now if I were in BC’s shoes, I may re-counter with Bosh/Kapono for Biedrins/Crawford/Belineli, and keep Calderon and our pick instead of Ellis because Ellis is not a PG.
My reasoning for agreeing to take Jamal Crawford is because he has the same skill set as Ellis and Iverson, but is a lot less effective a player. His game more closely resembles Ben Gordon, except he’s taller and better defensively, but shoots a lower FG% and has never contributed to a winning team. However, since his contract runs for only another two season, he’d be a better pick-up than Gordon (or Iverson).
Belineli would be salary filler, but could certainly become a useful rotation player.
In summary, there are so many possible roster moves for BC to consider that I don’t envy his job this summer. But looking at available SG, here’s my discussed short-list:
-J.Crawford
-Iverson
-B.Gordon
Correction, if were BC, my re-counter offer would include Randolph instead of Belineli. But than if I’m the Warriors, I’d still re-counter with Belineli instead of Randolph, which I’d still accept.
randolph all the way…he is nuts. good and bad.
If raptors fans think bosh is overrated, than boozer takes it to the next level. The guy is just as good as david west and benefits from d-will and the jazz system.
AMEN!
plus, dude has caterpillars for eyebrows and we already got douby’s unibrow so….
AI has the qualities of game that we need, just not the team player qualities we need.
His addition would subtract from Bargs development and it would mean a whole lotta standing around watching AI or Bosh make up their mind what to do.
I like AI and he’s tough as nails, but a team will never be a winner with him on it.
Some kind of trade revolving around Bosh with Ellis and Randolph would not be unreasonale. BUT I would prefer Bosh stays and BC figures out how to properly patch the holes to have a decent bench. The Raps have a young core and they will continue to learn and grow. Be patient.
I would love to see a trade involving Bosh and pieces for Ellis, Randolph and pieces, Randoph looks like a really intriguing prospect, but I’m not sure GS bites on that.
It’s a buyer’s market for Crawford though, Nelson is basically trying to make him opt out of his deal, so maybe Randolph and Crawford? I wouldn’t even be against the Raps taking on Maggette’s absurd deal (length and $$$) if GS took Kapono…Maggette is not without his problems, and comes at a high price, but I like him more than Kapono…
I always thought Maggette would look good on the Raps with his slashing/scoring ability. I always hated that Bosh is BY FAR the leading free throw taker on this team. AP and Jose are useless for getting to the line.
Like my post above, I’d want Biedrins as the centre piece of any trade for Bosh.
And the Warriors would certainly insist on keeping Randolph since there’s every possibility Bosh doesn’t re-sign with them.
Biedrins would be a great fit with Bargs. If we can somehow get ellis a package for bosh with Biedrins that would be the steal of the century. I could see the G-state pull the trigger but after the JO debacle I think Brian will shy from the big trade.
I really like Biedrins, and offensively he would be a great match with Bargs, but defensively I think they would struggle a bit together unless the Raps ran a lot of zones…Of course all of these scenarios assume a few Golden State players would happily leave a sunny climate to play in Toronto, so in that respect Toronto would probably be an easier sell for Biedrins…but who really knows?
I do think BC could realistically insist on getting Randolph in any deal. Unless GS is looking to dump salary, I doubt they do any deal for Bosh unless it is a sign-and-trade – they would want to make sure he was locked in for a few years. As I said before GS would love to include Crawford and his $10 million in any deal, because they want him to opt opt out anyways, so BC really could be in the driver’s seat.
I find it interesting that GS would be interested in Bosh over Amare – I think Amare would be a much better fit for their system (i.e. running up and down and little interest in playing D)…
In terms of signing Iverson, it may be nice, but we’ve seen that while our starting five is usually competitive, but our bench has been HORRID.
There are a lot of guys out there, and I’m far more partial towards signing a whole slew of fringe starters/bench players to ensure that our depth is in order, practices are more competitive, and people look to play harder, because they have to.
While I like him, Bobby Jackson – as a sixth man? Those days are surely over.
There’s a slew of other people you could use as a sixth man, who, perhaps might command a bit more money than BJ, but would yield a far greater return both in absolute terms, as well as from a bang-for-the-buck perspective.
I’m thinking like Josh Childress or Marvin Williams, Ariza, of course, Eddie House, Leon Powe, Grant Hill (who’s wife is from Toronto), Matt Barnes, and even our own AP.
The only thing is, signing these fringe players for cheap is ultimately what most NBA teams with cap space for 09 are going to try and do. It’s going to be hard to convince folks to come our way.
Thoughts?
Iverson could be a good draw for fans, but IMO, would fail with the Raps. That said, it does not mean we should not give it a try anyway.
Why it would fail:
1)
Our offense under Triano is premised on ball movement, much as it is in Detroit when Rip Hamilton is on the floor. Rip’s impact in the game is primarily how he moves without the ball to get open looks for himself and his teammates. My fear with Iverson is that the ball will not move out of his hands once it gets in his hands. On the other hand, he and Bosh could establish a nice 2-man game with Iverson cutting after Calderon feeds it down low to CB4.
2)
If we pick up Ettore Messina, he is a European coach that keeps his players on a tight leash by all accounts: i.e. all plays are run through his systems. Showing up to PRAC-TICE is very important under a coach like Messina, even if he is going to be an assistant.
3)
Defensive issues. Part of running an offensive team needs to be having players on defense who can keep their player in front of them, because the team will not have the energy to play such great team ball. This is not Iverson. However, IF, as I would like, we get someone exclusively to teach Bosh and Bargnani how to rotate on D, we might stop the gaps that Iverson and Bosh would create.
Why we might sign Iverson anyway:
1)
Iverson still has some of his old explosiveness, and is a threat to score or make a play any time he gets the ball. With Bargnani spreading out one of the opposition’s big men, Iverson should find plenty of seams.
2)
The Raps will give him starting minutes. He will be the starting SG on this squad. Parker, as much as I like him, is a good 6th man.
3)
He can fill seats. Our team might not get higher than 8th seed, but he will fill the seats.
4)
Give Bosh the sense that this team has committed to finding someone who can score on a regular basis, freeing him up to clean up the glass.
- – - – -
My opinion: do not sign him.
I personally don’t think Iverson is the Answer for this team. He thrives when the ball is in HIS hands, passing be damned. He does not move well without the ball, though if Marion is active he may not need to move that well. But, ultimately, his style of play is not the direction the Raps are moving in. Our offence is predicated on ball movement, like in Detroit, and he would fit not much better here, as there.
“However, IF, as I would like, we get someone exclusively to teach Bosh and Bargnani how to rotate on D, we might stop the gaps that Iverson and BOSH would create.”
Replace “Bosh” with Calderon
Ignoring whether or not I’d actually want to sign Iverson for the Raptors (I wouldn’t), if the Raptors did re-sign Marion they’d only be able to give Iverson the mid-level exception. If he’s going to sign for the MLE (which I predict he’ll probably have to, or retire), then he’s going to sign with a team like Orlando that has a chance at winning a title.
Great point Scott.
totally.
end of discussion.
peace out AI.
I have been saying this for months now and all my friends thought I was crazy.
Me too, I felt like I was crazy until I read this article.
If it’s possible to sign him to a one year deal I believe that the risk is worth it. I’m pretty sure it would be much harder to create a contender without Bosh than with him. A move like this would definately help convince Bosh to stay.
Iverson wants starter’s minutes and we can offer him that easily. On the downside, Jake Voskhul would miss hanging out with AI at practice.
no way! Allen “Practice” Iverson is the Wrong Answer. just look at how he destroyed the pisstons, who were also expected to be a perennial east playoff team but are now grasping for air to be able to make it. dumars just made the move to clear out cap space to get lebron (dream on), or more likely the guy they should have drafted with the # 2 pick in 2004 who is none other than our chris bosh.
yes he has the skills, but i’m afraid that if we do sign him, he will tear down this team, influence our young guys like roko with bad ass attitude, disrespect and openly bash our coach. plus he will also be a liability on defense if he guards the likes of kobe, wade, roy at the 2. and the guy NEVER EVER wants to play off the bench! we dont need a guy like that on our team. plus that guy might even cost us another 7-10 million U$.
so my answer is : NO NO NO!
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong player wrong attitude wrong time of his career wrong wrong wrong.
He’ll never get a ring and, well, that’s life.
But the hundred million (he should have) in the bank will help dry those tears.
“and they switch up on defence, so that Iverson guards the quicker, smaller guards and Jose guards the taller, SGs – thus eliminating both players’ defensive weaknesses”
No, that’s not how it works at all. Neither player has only a single problem with their defensive game. Rather, its a whole list of bad habits that would be absolutely terrible to watch when paired together. I can’t get over how bad our perimeter D would be with these two as our starting backcourt.
The answer to the question of the Answer = No.
Here is a list to choose from as far as likely available UFA’s to choose from this summer.
a portion of the mid-level SGs that could fit (ball-handling and/or slashing SG):
Flip Murray
Gerald Green
Dahntay Jones
Von Wafer
Marquis Daniels
Stephen Graham
Carlos Delfino
Anthony Parker
Morris Almond
the very unlikely:
Ben Gordon (only if he bites on a short term mid-level)
AI (only if he bites on a short term mid-level)
Jamal Crawford (only if he ETO’s and bites on a short term mid-level)
It will likely come down to one or the other of Parker or Delfino and 1 other guard from the first list plus a hail-mary draft pick at SG. Thats the best (and most likely) choice IMO because it offers versatility and is hedges the risk compared to all the money at 1 guy.
P.S. I like Delfino in there as he is younger than AP and is likely very motivated to stick in the NBA. He’s also restricted so he doesnt count against our mid-level (I think…)
It’s easy to sum it up if you’re just talking about Iverson. We’re sitting here, and Bosh is supposed to be the franchise player, and we’re talking about Iverson. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about Iverson, not a team, not a team, not a team, but we’re talking about Iverson. Not the team that I go out there and die for and watch every game like it’s my last but we’re talking about Iverson man. How silly is that?
Now I know that I’m supposed to lead by example and all that but I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I honestly do but we’re talking about Iverson. We’re talking about Iverson man. We’re talking about Iverson. We’re talking about Iverson. We’re not talking about the team. We’re talking about Iverson?
ok, let’s talk about the team. It is generally considered that the Raps need two things for next year to get better: a ball-handling #2 and a deeper bench. phdsteve has suggested we go after Iverson to MAKE THE TEAM BETTER. So, from this perspective, of making the team better, what do you think BC should go out and do next season to make us better?
Iverson on playing on a team where he couldn’t hog the ball:
I won’t do this again, in my career. I’ll retire before I do this again. I would leave the game before I do this. I can’t be effective like I know I can playing this way.
It’s just that I’m not used to it. Just not something I’ve had to do. Like I said, it’s hard for me mentally and physically.
- – - – - – -
Raptoronto, I feel dumb. I posted before reading your post properly!!!
I never lol, but that’s pretty funny.
loool im dieing of laughter!
Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich Malcovich. Malcovich?
AI in a portal confronting his own narcissism would say…”give me da damn ball, bitches”.
bravo
Well played, lol
FYI – just checked up on old Carlos and what kind of numbers he’s putting up:
Russian League avgs:
10.43ppg (3rd on team)
4.30rpg (6th on team)
2.91 apg (2nd on team)
ULEB Eurocup avgs (10 games 27 mpg):
13.0 ppg
3.6 rpg
2.6 apg
1.5 steals
1.5 T/O
typical Delf numbers. He’s not great at anything but does everything well. He is def a good 6th man or at least a bench guy.
Carlos has been injuried since january and he recently started playing again, just in time for de quarter-finals of the Eurocup -wich is not the same that the euroleague, the winner of the Eurocup earns a spot automaticaly in the Euroleague-. In that tournament, Carlos, who had been out for about 4 months with a shoulder injury, lead his team to the semifinals wiht 15 points. In the final four, he was by far the best player on the court scoring 18 points, 8 or 10 of them in the 4th quarter. Finnaly, in the final game against L. Rytas from Lithuania he was the top scorer of his team with 16 points but they lost 80-74.
I think raps should resign AP and sign Matt Barnes for aprox. 2 miilion
Matt Barnes can provide toughness and like shwan marion he can play 2-4 positions, which gives raps a nice toughness and solid perimiter shooter
IMO if you want that kinda player why not go with Graham – he’s younger has more potential and athleticism and has all those qualities except a 3-point shot (although his mid-range game is far superior).
and if you need a tie-breaker he is a RFA and any money that goes to him doesnt count against our mid-level money…
I don’t think Barnes will come at 2 million, I’d say he’s in the 4-6 range. No thanks to AP, a bit tired of watching him tense up in the fourth quarter and have a good game every four games. Need a little more consistency than that if we want to even make the playoffs. If you get Barnes to add on to Marion, that makes Joey disposable. I’d rather not have Delfino but will settle for him but would much rather get a guy from the draft and hope he contributes (see Courtney Lee).
Well drafting atleast one prospect at the wing spot is a must but any rookie cant be trusted 100% with a starting spot… thats why we need to hedge our bets with some proven wing players.
You cant deny that Parker is a proven fringe starter in the league and would be a fine addition to any club in a 6th man role for a portion of the mid-level.
I think if we do bring in iverson and\or kepp the same we should bring in a high-profile coach (like eddie jordan). Triano in no way would be able to preach ball movement to iverson and he seems too much like a yes man.
I say bring in Eddie Jordan in (he would preach ball movement) and I believe he can deal with personalities like iverson. We would get the recognition around the league and maybe change the culture surrounding th raptors (second rate nba team with inferiority complex to the american teams).
But knowing brian he will keep the inexpensive coach who listen to all his demands.
You can’t look at the Raptors + AI in isolation … you must look at the rest of the league and in particular the Eastern Conference.
Does anybody seriously think that the Raps + AI have the necessary upside to make the playoffs next season?
Does anybody seriously think that the Raps + AI will make it into the playoffs next season considering the strength of the other teams?
Does anybody seriously think that AI is the ‘missing piece’ that will boost Raptor fortunes in the East?
Does anybody seriously think that BC would declare the Raps roster is up for sale and then try to arrange fair trades?
Does anybody seriously think that the Raptors can stay pat with their present roster and jell as a viable NBA team????
BC must start the Raptor rebuild with the team peaking in 3-4 years and when the current powerhouse teams are declining .. and that’s the reality whether you like it or not.
Von Wafer > AI (at the twighlight of his career and keeping the money they’d demand relative to each other). That would be a starting lineup of Jose (or, better yet, Baron Davis) + Crispy Von Wafer + Marion + Bosh + Bargs. But if you’re flipping Bosh, please trade him to GS for Biedrins and a package that involves Randolph. The more I read FreeDarko (and Simmons) about him the more I believe he may be able to fold space into time.
So, if I was GM the Raptors would be Baron Davis + Von Wafer + Marion (with Randolph logging heavy minutes in relief at the 3) + Bargs + Biedrins with a bench that included Randolph, probably Rasho and Pops in the role of Joey Graham. Messina can coach that mess, can’t he?
you lost me at baron davis.
i like von though…anyone with the name von actually.
Jose + Kapono for Davis and filler. Risky but the upside is good. In addition to lighting it up on O, Baron can defend when healthy/motivated. Of course, Baron is not always healthy or motivated.
who da hell would trade davis for those 2? like comn i wouldnt
Mike Dunleavy
lol
First of all, Baron Davis plays one game and sits the next four, everytime with a different injury, he’s not an injury prone player, he just doesn’t want to play, apparently he does not like to win, the only realy winning season was when they beat dallas in the playoffs and then lost to utah. He just want to put his numbers and don’t care about anything else, plus he will not want to come to toronto for any reason.
Wafer is a black hole, i bet that if you ask him who is a best player, he or Kobe, he would say that Kobe had more opportunities but that he’s a best player. Everytime i watch him, he makes me sick, he shoots everytime he touches the ball. He is putting good numbers but with horrible decision making and I mean HORRIBLE. I rather had AP and Delfino.
For next season, i like the starting line up right now, we just need to improve the bench, with roko as a back up pg (with a good and veteran 3rd pg just in case) and maybe with pops as the back up pf. Then, bring rasho as a veteran and very serviciable back up center and delfino as sg, maybe at some point of the season he could take the starting sg position.
Don’t think im crazy, but i honestly wish we had Vince Carter at the moment. He is exactly what this team needs, everything lacking can be put behind us if VC comes back!
IVERSON?…LOL.
Do you really think Ai will sign here…i dont
Hey Steve, I had similar thoughts on this back in January. Check it out
http://whitechocolateblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/raptors-game-day-plan-to-fix-raptors.html
The whole Iverson thing sounds interesting…
I have a few problems with the salaries though.
Why pay Calderon 8 mil? I think it should decrease. Second of all.. how long does Banks contract last? He really is a waste of space and money. I would keep Jake the Farmer over Banks. :D
It would take some craftiness by its not out of the question that BC would trade Banks to a financially struggling team for cash and/or a pick (likely purchased). I dont think he will do it this year because he seems to have enough cap-space to not have to worry about it.
The good news is the Raptors could probably sign Iverson for less than the 7 million you propose. The bad news if the Raps would have the worst defensive backcourt I’ve ever seen. Also, every low percentage shot Iverson takes (aka, almost every shot he takes) is a high percentage shot Calderon and Bosh cannot take. Colangelo should be too smart to spend money on a formerly productive player like Iverson.
The “Mike Dunleavy” and “We’re talking about Iverson” posts were hilarious!
I agree with many of the posts here; Iverson is not ‘our’ answer, albeit he brings the toughness and leadership that we do need. He is on the decline and a giant black hole. W need to rebuild for the future, (2-4 years); as much as I can’t bear to see another “wasted” season.
I really like Delfino; I remember him with Garbo back in ‘07, where the Raptors were a decent team, but a soft front court. Bargnani has finally matured into a contributing starter, especially post-ASG. However, BC will not pull the plug on CB4. He is the franchise and too large of a part of Toronto, (not just sports world, but the city) that he will not be traded away with a year left on his contract. It’s inevitable that we’ll we see no major changes and wait for the dreaded 2010 year. :(
I like any trade involving Monta Ellis, any trade….
The guy could easily be a top 10-15 player in the NBA for years to come providing he stays healthy.
Love that guy… David Lee also a great idea…..
AI not going to happen but fuck would that be intresting….
Perfect world….
Trade Ellis for Kapono and Calderon
Draft Stephen Curry
Resign Bosh
Resign Graham
Resign Pops
Resign Marion
Sign Delfino
Sign Raso
Resign Parker
goodbye to Jawai/Jake/Patrick
you have
PG CURRY/ELLIS/UKIC/PARKER/DELFINO
SG ELLIS/CURRY/PARKER/DELFINO/KAPONO
SF MARION/GRAHAM/DELFINO/KAPONO
PF BOSH/MARION/HUMP/POPS
C ANDREA/RASHO/BOSH/
Wow nobody would be stupid enough to trade ellis for calderon and freaking jason kapono. Whatever your smoking pass it over.
whats with the rediculous love of Stephen Curry?!? Why not just fast forward a few years and have JJ reddick instead?!?
Nope, I don’t think Iverson is a solution for the Raptors.
Mostly for reasons already mentioned — I think the team’s defense would be shambolic. The idea of Calderon and Iverson, and then Bosh and Bargnani behind them, terrifying! I dislike Iverson’s offensive game and that most of his contributions there will come at the cost of other players. Ball dominating player who is a terrible teammate and makes life hard for everyone around him.
Nice article phdsteve. It’s fun to think about all the different scenarios available to Toronto.
Surprised that you’re so sure that Triano will be back as coach next year. Whatever Bryan’s been alluding to – and that’s all he’s done that I’ve seen – I will be absolutely shocked if Triano is back next year. I think the deal for a new coach is as good as done and the announcement will come when it’s appropriate … and that JT will take the job in the organization that best suits him. If it happens as I suspect it will, I can’t see him not being given the option of staying in the coaching ranks as an assistant, if that’s what he wants. The other option would be an upstairs job, which could offer challenges of a different nature but would ultimately add to his what-he-knows-and-how-it-works experience, not to mention an even more interesting resume. He’s now only 50 yrs old, so things being equal, he should have lots of time to pursue a good coaching opportunity somewhere in the NBA. But later.
Before mentioning what I think of the AI idea, I’ll admit along with you phdsteve, when I first heard of Jason Kapono coming here, I liked it a lot. The idea of having ‘the best 3 pt shooter in the league’ sounded sweet. Didn’t work so well, but then last year, imagining how it might work with JO and CB demanding so much attention on the inside, JK would then most certainly be out at various points behind the 3 pt line ready to swish away. Well … I was wrong on that one, as well. Hopefully, someone out there will fall in love with the idea of having a ‘shooter who could be the best 3 pt shooter … blah blah blah’ … so we won’t have to package him up in a dipsy-doodly fancy-pak to get something of value for him.
A.I. For years, I’ve been a long-time fan of this guy, enough so that those 76ers games I went to those years ago, were selected for the A.I. reason, alone. For me, watching him play was a thing of basketball beauty. But at the same time, I never really believed that a team that had Allen Iverson as a part of it would ever win the big prize. Maybe I’ve watched the movie ‘Hoosiers’ too many times … but I just don’t see him fitting into the kind of ‘team play’ that (I believe) is necessary for a team to win the NBA Championship. (Although, after reading an ESPN article the other day about how well A.I. would fit into the Charlotte team … if he ends up there, I’ll follow along closely, with interest. ‘Cause, who knows what’s gonna happen?)
But even more important, I believe, is that I cannot see any way in hell or this lifetime that Bryan Colangelo would roll the dice on a player like A.I. after all we’ve gone through to get to where we are … wherever the hell that might actually be. Not a snowball’s chance in hell. For all the reasons that some others here have said … and even a few more. It would just disrupt too many things on too many levels … and that’s really about all I can say about it. Others here seem to have way more knowledge of just who is who in the NBA (and I’m always impressed) … but I can’t say that I do … other than saying there are a few players I’d like to see here … but either the contract is for too much … or I don’t like what I’ve seen with attitudes (here and there) … or I don’t trust the health enough of this one or that one … so at this point, there isn’t anyone who I’m panting over (that we’d have a shot at) so I’ll leave that part of the discussion to those who know better. I just hope we can keep Bosh at a price that works for all, Bargs of course, Jose and Marion. Maybe Parker off the bench. And then, some magical BC trades, with a brand new coach who all are pleased to work with and … away we go for twenty-oh-nine/twenty-ten. (I’ve been told by friends that I’m a romantic at heart and not exactly in a complimentary way, you understand. I have to admit it might be so.) I saw here that someone explained the Bird Exception Rule … and I’ll have to look closer at that post, but my understanding is that once we’ve spent up to the cap, we can then spend up to maximum money (that doesn’t count against the cap) to sign say, Shawn Marion … and everybody’s happy. If I AM understanding how it works, the only ones who would (or should) care about how much it would take to keep Marion here then, would be MLSE … and if that’s the case, well, to hell-and-back fretting about their precious little ole hearts. But maybe I do have it wrong on the Bird Rule. Seems too easy. I’ll read some more, above.
AI and calderon = DEFENSIVE FAIL
Serious… Iverson? The guy was great in his day but he is a team killer. There have been numerous posts as to why not bring him in so I won’t repeat them…. just remember what happened to the pistons and Nuggets this year. That should say it all.
And for those mentioning bringing back Vince…. wow! Just wow! How could someone even dream that? Yeah lets bring back the greatest Benedict Arnold any Toronto team has ever had. You want the fans to coup… you found a way.
Taking Ty Lawson at 8 or 9? That would be a horrible draft pick. He will be available at 20! Not sold on Iverson either. He hasn’t proven to be able to play a diminished role, also can’t see him coming to Canada… and he is 34.
Bosh to Portland for Rudy, Przybilla and Batum. Get a couple of young, cheap slashers, Rudy and Jose already have chemistry and we get the rebounder/shot-blocker who doesn’t care about offense that should be playing next to Andrea.
AI = NO NO NO. He is not the answer. He said he would rather retire than come off the bench, that’s not the kind of player I would want on my team, He’s too selfish and will take touches away from Bosh + Bargnani as well.
—————————————
re: phdsteve’s all for Iverson. Is he making sense or has he lost his mind?
—————————————
phd has, indeed, lost his mind. : )
allen iverson wouldnt cost that much, since he is gonna go low cost like starbury untill he proves he is worth more, the nba magazine thing said
Dave,
That observation is 100% on the $$$.
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