Salmons – could’ve had him fairly cheap.First up, you know how we have that silly pizza promotion? Well, the Bulls have one too, they give out Big Macs for each 100 point game and guess what, the fans boo there too!
On to more important matters, anybody else think this winning’s get out of hand? We can’t be throwing away lottery balls as Blake Griffin drops 30/14 and further solidifies his status as the consensus #1 pick. Let’s face it, these wins are like getting a “friend hug” at the end of a date you had high expectations from. You know you blew it, she’s just doing this to make you feel like less of a loser. Or in our case, make the record a little more respectable which I always find is worse than actually sucking the whole way through. At least when you finish 25 games under .500 everybody agrees that you do in fact, suck, whereas going on a mini-run to end the campaign might give some delusional fans (or GM) reason enough to not make the major moves needed to correct the course.
Take for example the RR-respected Tim Chisholm who, based on the last few games, has already begun to advocate that Triano could be the right man to lead the Raptors next season. Let’s be clear: these wins don’t mean anything and should be treated as such, we’re playing pressure-free basketball with guys like Pops, Graham, Marion and Parker playing for contracts. If this team could’ve done something, they would’ve done it by now and reading anything more into the throes of this season is reading too much. Colangelo will be making a massive mistake if he bases any of his off-season moves on our March and April play.
According to ESPN, Golden State called about Chris Bosh and Colangelo wouldn’t have any of it. I would love to know what they were offering, apparently Golden State’s pitch isn’t over yet and they’ll call again at the next opportunity which happens to be this summer. The Bulls are also considered a “certain bidder” for Bosh should the Raptors and him decide to part ways. Oh, it’ll be interesting.
Chicago comes into town this afternoon tied for the 7th spot with Detroit and holding a 2 1/2 game lead over Charlotte who face the Lakers, Boston and Heat next. Chicago is up against Indiana, New Jersey and New York while Detroit’s next three games are against New Jersey, Philadelphia and Charlotte. Given the three teams’ schedule the Bulls have to be feeling good about their 92.8% playoff odds and are basically fighting off Detroit so they can avoid Cleveland in the first round. The late playoff push is thanks in large part because of the trade pulled by much maligned GM John Paxson which brought March Player of the Month John Salmons and Brad Miller to town in exchange for Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni, Cedric Simmons and Michael Ruffin. Salmons is averaging 20/5 on 50% shooting since joining the Bulls and Miller is averaging 12/8 while opening up the paint for Gordon and Rose. BTW, if you see a familiar face on the Bulls, that’s Linton Johnston who was signed to a second 10-day contract this week.
This is a back-to-back for the Bulls who beat Indiana on Saturday. Last time we played them Jose Calderon had a phenomenal game against rookie Derrick Rose: 23 points, 10 assists, 9-10 FG and 0 turnovers. He was coming back form an injury he suffered against the Celtics and his jumper was hotter than the hot part of the icy-hot patch. The real reason we won that game is because we shot a blistering season-high 57%. Is that going to happen again? Probably not. Calderon’s check Derrick Rose missed a game due to a bruised wrist last week and came off the bench against Miami before returning to the starting-lineup against Indiana where he registered 16/9/8.
Marion will try to handle Salmons who has successfully shed the undesirable label of “decent player on a bad team” thanks to his recent play. Brad Miller’s got to feel happy about not facing Jermaine O’Neal again but life doesn’t get much easier as the versatile and aggressive Bargnani will no doubt try keep up his great play of late – 20/5.6 on 53% shooting in the last 10 games. Tyrus Thomas and Chris Bosh will be a good matchup to keep an eye one, Bosh has been very aggressive on the boards of late and is contesting for offensive rebounds like he hasn’t done all season. He’s been a smaller part of the team offense of late as the Calderon/Bosh high pick hasn’t been used nearly as often as it had till February. Much of this is because we’ve been quicker in transition as Calderon and Parker have been getting better at making the outlet pass after missed shots. I’d dare say the last few games this team has looked a lot like the 06-07 bunch.
One of the criticisms people levy against Bosh even after good scoring games is that his man had the same, let’s test this theory, here are his last five matchups and how he fared against them:
- vs. Thunder: Bosh: 21/13/6, 10-18 FG. Collison: 21/7/2, 9-12 FG. W 112-96.
- vs Bucks: Bosh: 18/14/5, 5-8 FG. Charlie V: 8/4/3, 4-11 FG. W 115-106.
- vs Clippers: 16/13/1, 7-15 FG. Randolph: 20/7/0, 10-17 FG. W 100-76.
- vs Bobcats: 35/7/2, 8-17 FG. Diaw: 30/7/4, 15-21 FG. L 102-89.
- @ Bobcats: 18/14/1, 5-12 FG. Diaw: 14/1/3, 7-12 FG. L 112-86.
Yes, his guard does seem to have good offensive games. For a statistical measure of this phenomenon you might want to consult the Roland Rating which takes Hollinger’s PER rating and factors in how your check is performing. Bosh is 24th in the league.
All I’m looking for is for Roko to get 30 minutes and Jawai to show me something that makes me think he’s more than just someone who complains about the NBDL when he hasn’t even shown that he’s good enough for it. Patrick O’Bryant got in the game early against the Thunder and other than a feathery outside touch he didn’t show much. Frankly, I don’t want anything which is described as feathery to be associated with this team. Cut him. Joey Graham also needs more playing time so that I can head into the summer knowing that we don’t have the worst backup SF in the league. I think he’s shown Colangelo enough to warrant the qualifying offer and come back next year on a 20 minute basis. Sign him, but if you have you happen to get into a bidding match for his services, let him go. Same for Pops.
Raptors TV Production: I’ve been meaning to complain about this for a while so here goes: It’s terrible. Forget Leo droning on about nothing and Devlin using alliteration as a means of making things more exciting, I’m talking about the actual camera work and production quality of the broadcast. The missed plays don’t bother me anymore, my pet peeve is how they don’t show replays of interesting plays but are quick to “rack up” a three-point release. Show us the step out-of-bounds, the travel non-call, the cut that never got a pass, the baseline screen action that resulted in the open look, Bosh and Bargnani jockeying for position, Marion leaking out, Parker trying to fight through screens, Jose not trying to fight through screens and so much more. That production team needs to recognize that the viewers are far more basketball savvy than what they’re given credit for. We’re looking for more than just the breakaway dunk these days and its about time the TV production met our expectations. It’s also sad that we got the same guys covering the game on every single channel and they have nothing to say. Nothing at all. We know the roster needs new blood but Raptors TV needs it even more.
A little disappointed the Swirsk isn’t saying much heading into this one. Banks and Humphries are out for us. Luol Deng is out indefinitely with a stress fracture in his right tibia and Jerome James is done for the year. Tim Thomas has back spams and only played 6 minutes in the win against Indiana.
I don’t think the Luvabulls are very lovable at all and if I could I’d skip this section for today but duty calls. My pick is Cheria who says the best gift she ever received is the inheritance when her grandmother died.
The Raptors are a 2 point favorite and I’m 1-2 in my last three calls. Can the Raptors make it a season-high four in a row? The Bulls have won 7 of 8 and are in a back-to-back situation, I’m going with the home team and counting on the Bulls to slip up.
Is your bracket hurting? Fear not, you can try and restore some pride while actually netting some cash. Just predict a couple things about the NCAA final. Got questions? Ask us in 140 characters or less.
134 Raps
Bosh can safely assume that BC will not give him a max money contract.
Bosh can safely assume that any other team he plays for next season may.
Bosh can safely assume that the Raptors will be rebuilding ad infinitum.
Bosh can safely assume his genes have been successfully passed on.
Bosh can safely assume true bball aficionados are bored with him.
Bosh can safely assume he will not be a Raptor next season.
bosh is a max money player anywhere in the league. bc will give him what he wants because he wont get equal value back for him.
If BC can’t get equal value for trading Bosh, then he may not be a max money player even if he becomes a FA. Another season with the Raptors may utterly devaluate Bosh come 2010. I strongly suspect Bosh’s agent is pushing for a trade to another more promising team where Bosh can make a difference and win a max contract.
Playing for the Raptors is a career-killer for Bosh .. he just doesn’t fit in now. Bargs is beginning to look more promising than Bosh, and Bargs is more of a team player than all-star Bosh.
Just imagine how much better the Raps could be with a couple of truly athletic players in trade for Bosh. Another rookie or two will do nothing for the Raptor’s rebuild, and in fact rookies will struggle within the incomplete and rebuilding Raptors.
Any way you look at it, the Raptors are on the decline as they rebuild for 3-5 years hence. There is no way the Raptors can assemble a roster that can compete for a playoff position for several seasons … so just accept that and be patient.
“Salmons – could’ve had him fairly cheap.”
I thought we went after him and he was less than interested in coming up here so things fizzled immediately.
That’s exactly what happen. I’m pretty sure Arse just put that there to provoke conversation.
Never have i been more upset that the raptors are winning. I’m looking up at the Knicks and hoping Nate saved some of his damn Kryptonite(sp?).
krypto-nate? lol
As I’ve said elsewhere … assumptions can lead to errors in judgment. : )
What the hell does that mean? Who are you even talking to? Yourself?
Remember: Talking to oneself is one of the first signs of schizophrenia. You should get yourself checked out.
khandor says: Mar 29, 2009 at 9:12 am
“As I’ve said elsewhere … assumptions can lead to errors in judgment.”
Where have you said this “elswhere”?
On what do you base your assertion that: “… assumptions can lead to errors in judgement.”?
Your specious statements are suspiciously spurious.
there is no way in hell joey is back next year.
Agreed.
Am I the only one who misses Chuck’s hilariously misshapen visage? At least he fit in with the rest of the nickel-and-dime operation at RapsTV. Devlin just doesn’t belong.
Your absolutely right about the replays. They are terrible at missing important details. Then when they finally do show something we want to see, they let it run too long and we miss the other team bringing the ball up the floor. What if the Raptors pressured the ball and got the steal and Jose Calderon did a 360 dunk on the breakaway?
Who am I kidding? The Raps will never pressure the ball.
Always enjoyed Chuck’s over-the-top love of the game. Was too corny for many, I know, but for me, there was something sort of … genuine about it. Matt never gives me anything, really. Neither do any of them, anymore. Even Jack’s role these days doesn’t do much for me. With Chuck, there was a purpose for Jack being there. The ‘yin’ to Chuck’s ‘yang’, kind of. The best guy for that with Devlin I thought, was Sherman, for the two games that he did with him. Was the best match for Devlin, I thought.
And Arsenalist’s comment about Raptors TV production has it a bit backwards – probably intentionally, I know. “That production team needs to recognize that the viewers are far more basketball savvy than what they’re given credit for.” My guess is the production team itself isn’t basketball savvy enough to recognize what others would … and would like to see. A lot like all the in-between crap when you’re at the game that tv viewers don’t have to see. Seems painfully obvious to me that whoever’s responsible for that stuff hasn’t got a clue about the game, what’s going on at any given moment (game-wise) or hoops in general. Makes me cringe.
100% right, I don’t think the people in the “truck” know any better. They just focus on showing the highlight plays which is a very small part of the game. I’d also like to see a color guy in there which tries to call things the way they are. The trait that I hate about Leo is that quick to point out the negative aspect of things on the opposition but is reluctant to to so on the Raps.
I agree the prodcution team misses a good portion of the replays that I actually would like to see (as Arse outlined in his post) but I wonder how it compares to the local production by other teams?
I’d like to agree with the sentiment of tanking, but honestly, wins still feel pretty good. Plus, I’m one of those suckers that have decided that this team is championship worthy next year…naw. Although if the Raps can beat Chicago, a team that is actually playing well and for something, than it might be possible that this roster is turning a bit of a corner and perhaps adapting to Triano. Still, it’s going to be an interesting offseason, hopefully with tons of movement!
As for the draft, I’ve been impressed with Earl Clark. He’s a player that can do everything. Should he be someone the Raps should focus on, perhaps even more than Derozan/Evans, simply because the Raps don’t need more scorers, but instead a wing that can rebound, pass, and defend. I have no idea when in the draft Clark is supposed to go (and I’m too lazy to check it out) but he strikes me as a good option.
this winning is ridiculous: can’t win right and can’t lose right.
Marc,
Only one comment before mine deals with certain assumptions.
So, because your not savy enough to use threaded comments the rest of us must make assumptions on what thread you are commenting on…do you realize how obtuse you sound when you make comments like this?
Khandor, Raptoronto is right.
I’ll start manually moving your comments to the proper context so everyone can follow the discussion. Shouldn’t affect you but will make life easier for everyone else.
That we could have gotten Salmons for cheap? That’s not too much of a stretch and definitely does not lead to very many errors in judgement.
Winning feels good. With a draft like this, impact players are as likely with a #7 overall pick as they are with a #2.
I want these players to get comfortable with each other, because in all likelihood, win or lose, BC was going to try to re-sign Marion, get Bosh extended, and re-sign Parker. Parker to me, represents a fantastic back-up player at this stage in his career – if we can get him on a reasonable contract, then I am happy.
All season, the problem, IMO has been chemistry. If this time of year means that the team can build some with the pressure off, then by all means. The main criticism of Bosh and Bargnani that I have is that their defence when playing together has been somewhat mediocre – when one is boxing out, the other is not going for the rebound, and when one is blocking a shot, the other is not rotating. Also, Bargnani’s switching on the pick and roll has never seemed to come when he should switch. These aspects of the game, however, are not uncoachable. I think that with practice and coaching, these are the sorts of things that can become automatic for players. At least I hope so.
Also, let’s see if Roko can fill in for next year – we need to protect Calderon’s playing time, so we can get 35 mins per night of all-star quality PG-play.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Despite what the doomsayers here believe, I do not think it is time to blow up this team yet. The Raptors need great coaching and a few other pieces to become a good team. We won’t be contending for a title any time soon but we are a great coach and one good FA signing away from the playoffs next year.
Baby steps. Not everyone can do what Boston did last year. That was an aberration.
Who else believes with all the winning that management and fans both might want triano and most of the roster back (like the leafs every year). If they finish the year strong and management believes that this team with a couple of minor signing (like delfino {oh god!!!}) is ready for next year who else thinks that were going to fall flat on our ass and be at the same position as this year. We need not just a roster overhaul but a change of culture starting with the coach. If not the losing ways and culture will stay with this team and we will truly become the Eastern Confernce Clippers.
Not to go ‘all Messina’ here, but I find myself almost hoping that something like what Arsenalist guessed at a couple weeks ago (?) comes about, with Ettore Messina at the helm, with a good mix of NBA experience for the assistants. I know many don’t much care for the idea, but if that’s what BC has in mind – my guess is yes – I’ll get on board, easy. There’s your new culture.
Thats not a culture change thats just what we been doing for years bringing inexperienced coached or thing we been doing lately being the start of all euros who went to get their feet wet in The NBA. All were doing is combining those two things. We need experienced NBA coach with a tough mentality like an avery johnson.
Avery Johnson? I dunno. That might be as big crap-shoot as what bringing Messina here would be. Also, while Messina obviously doesn’t have experience here, for me, it’s a stretch to say he’s ‘inexperienced’. Can only go on what I’ve read, but I don’t think it’s likely that as respected as he is by so many (whose opinions would seem to have merit), he wouldn’t bring SOMEthing of value to the party. Don’t know if bringing him here would be a good change – time would tell – but it would definitely be a change in ‘culture’. Imo.
Yes he is inexperienced in the NBA game and I think it would be better for him to come here as an assistant and learn about the NBA game instead of the stress of coaching a team in argubably their biggest transtion year (next year IMO is when Bryan Colangelo ass in on the line)
agree with that last part
Raptoronto,
Obtuse?
LOL, : )
If you can’t follow along … perhaps, it’s you [and others in that situation] who should consider changing to Regular mode. Of course, you SHOULD only do what works best for you.
…fucking douchebag.
re: Bosh’s value vs Bargnani’s
If Bryan Colangelo put all the players on this roster up for sale at once, Chris Bosh is the name that would draw the most interest from rival GMs, not Andrea Bargnani.
Those who think that Bargnani has the ability to become a better player than Bosh, would be similar to those who think that Paul Pierce is a better player and more important to the Celtics than Kevin Garnett.
Trading Bosh because he can bring more back to the Raptors in return is a legitimate option for the team to consider. Trading Bosh because Bargnani is considered to be the type of player the team SHOULD build around instead of Bosh … is comical.
I agree that right now bosh is better player rigt now and that is way we should trade him in the offseason. Don’t confuse me as Bosh hater but I belive that both that he isn’t going to sign with us and that he not worth the Max. So we can get something while his Value is at the highest.
I would argue that, because they operate so well as a TEAM, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are equally as important to the Celtic’s success.
Right now? Bosh is a better player. In two, three, five years? Who knows?
The very idea that any team has to “build” around someone is damaging and simplistic. That type of talk is what leads to prima-donna superstars who never win anything (T-mac anyone?) The best teams are those without a clear-cut “franchise” player. Build around an identity, not a player. Players get injured or get traded. Identities stick around.
————————————–
khandor says: Mar 29, 2009 at 9:12 am
“As I’ve said elsewhere … assumptions can lead to errors in judgment.”
Where have you said this “elswhere”? – by FAQ
————————————–
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/03/28/best-weve-looked-all-season/#comments
: )
If Bryan Colangelo would have made the right moves last summer the Raptors should have been able to challenge for a top 4 playoff spot this season. Unfortunately … he did not make those moves. Now, in all likelihood, the opportunity to reach the NBA Finals for the next few seasons has passed. That said … things can and frequently do change quickly in the NBA … depending on the quality of a team’s GM. Fool’s Gold needs to be avoided at all costs but it doesn’t really take that long to turn around a sinking ship, as long as there’s a true commitment to do so from the top down within an organization.
I agree again but you can’t keep looking to the past and saying what if.
And Khandor do believe we should give Chris Bosh a Max contract and why???
Marc,
Are you sure this quote below is what you really meant to say:
The best teams are those without a clear-cut “franchise” player. – by Marc
given the prominent teams on this list and this list, as but two examples.
I don’t say things unless I mean to say them.
I don’t know what a list of NBA champions is supposed to prove besides the fact that it does in fact require team play to win a championship.
I don’t feel like going thru the entire list, but last year’s NBA finals was a perfect example. The Lakers, who rely far too much on one player, lost to the Celtics, who play great team basketball with their stars all defering to one another on both ends of the floor. Two other teams that perfectly personify my point are the Detriot Pistons (03-04) and the San Antonio Spurs (pick any year in the past decade).
The Chicago Bulls are the best example of team that relied on one player. It only worked because that particular player happens to be one of the greatest of all time. It doesn’t happen very often and I think we will see that type of thing happen less and less in the new NBA.
Needless to say, I am not picking the Cavs to win this year.
Marc, I wouldn’t discount the impact that the triangle offence has on these superstar players. They serve to take pressure off of these players, making everyone on the floor a playmaking threat.
To further your idea about ‘franchise players’:
MJ had Pippen and Rodman and Kukoc. Kobe now has Gasol, a rejuvenated Odom and potentially Bynum. There is nothing wrong with having a ‘best’ player, who can be called the franchise, but you need other valuable players. In fact, on Forum Blue and Gold, it was asserted that although Kobe is their ‘best’ player, Gasol is their ‘most valuable’ player.
This is simply speaking to the fact that no player can do it alone. THAT is the danger of talking about building around players, and building franchise players.
What you do have, with players of the quality of LeBron, is that players that would otherwise have a negligible impact on other teams (i.e. Mo Williams, perhaps even Bynum) become all-stars. LeBron’s and Kobe’s play opens up the floor in ways other teams do not have. And, I think that having a player to space the floor effectively, be it Ginobili/Parker or Pierce/Allen or MJ or Kobe, these are the kinds of players necessary to win, because they make other players better.
Khandor,
in the playoffs, the Celtics equally would lose in the finals to the Lakers if they were missing any one of Pierce, Allen and Garnett. So, in what sense is Pierce not equally important to Garnett? In the 4th quarter, Pierce takes over games in a way that Garnett cannot do.
This really speaks to what the Raps are missing right now. I like Anthony Parker but we really need a scoring threat at the 2 position.
I stand by my Ben Gordon endorsement.
Babyface,
IMO, the Raptors should attempt to sign Chris Bosh to a long term contract extension. If they need to give him a Max Contract to do that, then, so be it. He has done a solid job, ss the face of the Raptors’ franchise, since they made the colossal mistake of trading Wince Carter. Chris Bosh is an under-sized yet highly effective Center who plays all three phases of the game at a more than adequate level, and is a very good rebounder and team defender when he focuses his energy in these two areas of the game. He is also a player who can score the ball effectively, if need be; although he is by no means a “clutch scorer”. In general, NBA teams that are trying to win a championship in the not-too-distant future, re-sign their best players, when the opportunity arises. Organizations without the wherewithall to re-sgn their best players, however, become permanent cellar-dwellers or Treadmill Teams. It is relatively easy to build around two solid players like Chris Bosh [C] and Jose Calderon [PG]. It’s the quality, and the quantity, of the other players on the roster that will determine how far Bosh & Calderon are able to go together as a PG/C tandem.
I do agree with your assessment of Bosh but I am still not sure of giving him the Max offer and with all the idiotic moves the raptors have mad coupled with recent problems in his life that Chris wants to start all over. I believe that Brian can sign Bosh to a Max offer but I don’t think its worth the cap flexabilty that we will lose.
I love how you put “C” after Bosh’s name as if he actually plays that position.
Marc,
IMO …
Keep Pierce & KG but remove Ray; the C’s might still have won the title.
Keep Ray & KG but remove Pierce; the C’s might still have win the title.
Keep Ray and Pierce but remove KG; the C’s would not have won the title.
Kevin Garnett is the straw that stirs the drink for the C’s these days.
They wouldn’t have even won without Leon Powe (See: Game 2). That’s how tight their team was last year.
I agree that KG is the most important piece, but they need everyone in order to win.
Marc,
You did not say, “The best teams in the NBA play the best ‘team’ ball.”
What you said was, “The best teams are those without a clear-cut “franchise” player.”
Tim Duncan is the “franchise” player for the Spurs.
Kevin Garnett is the “franchise” player for the Celtics.
I would argue that Tony Parker is at least as important as Tim Duncan is for the Spurs.
Same goes for Pierce in Boston
An argument could easily be made that Rondo is fast becoming the Celtics most important player.
If not more…most of the offense in San Antonio is now generated by Tony Parker and his quickness/speed more than TD posting up and the double team coming and them swinging it around the horn.
Same with Pierce, he’s THE guy the Celtics go to in crunch time. Kevin Garnett provides the defense and Allen spaces the floor up but it’s Pierce that the defense is most concerned with.
I “know” you have zero time as it it…any chance you can change profanity to the person’s name? Like you did in one of Andiamo’s rants? Or is there a “program” or “script” (I dunno what I am talking about) that will automatically change a list of words to say “explative” or “ooops”?
flux=homo
…damn flux.u really is a bitch son.
Need a hanky?
… and, I agree with you … the Celtics needed each and everyone of their players to win last season. Ubuntu! : )
It’s a team game, based on individual match-ups, mis-matches, and areas of specialization.
“Keep Pierce & KG but remove Ray; the C’s might still have won the title.
Keep Ray & KG but remove Pierce; the C’s might still have win the title.”
They needed everyone huh?
It is a FACT that Bosh is not worth a max contract. Those who ASSUME otherwise fail to understand the complexities of basketball at the NBA level. Hmmmm, that IS kind of fun to do.
But I agree with Marc (sorry, I don’t use the threads cause I’m stupid), I’d rather build around an identity rather than a franchise player who might not be a franchise player (see Bosh, Chris). If Bosh will sign for less than max and understands that the Raps need his rebounding and defense more than his scoring (I think that Bargnani is a far more dangerous offensive threat), than the Raps should try to resign Bosh. But definitely not for a max deal. And honestly, I don’t really care if he’s traded, so long as the Raps get some good players/picks in return.
I agree with everything you said about CB4 but is he is traded we won’t get as much as most raptors fans hope. I’ll be happy with picks, prospect, and good rotation player. And for god sakes don’t trade him to the Magic cuz right there is a championship team for years.
Howard and Bosh would be a lethal combination. A perfect fit as well since Bosh is a PF and Howard is a C.
*cough cough*
Khandor
Without Pierce the Celtics would have lost to Cavs in the second round and wouldn’t even make it to the finals. The Celtics are like well oiled machine that relys on its part working as one.
Babyface,
Tim Duncan is on a Max Contract [or, at least, a close to max deal] for the Spurs. San Antonio is over the Salary Cap but under the Luxury Tax Threshold. It has not stopped them from fielding a High End Team, with a talented and deep roster, on a consistent basis. IMO, it’s a red-herring for others to suggest that a High End Team cannot be built with a Max Contract player on the roster.
One thing your missing we don’t have the resourse in management to make smart signings or trades (bonner and mason jr.). Plus Duncan who (no offence to Chris) is much superior player to him. He has one of the post games plus a killer mid-range game, he is the best Defensive player never to win a Defensive player of the year, and is one of the best at passing out of the double team unlike bosh. Who says its a foregone conclusion that bosh resigns here. He might wise up and think I’d rather be the 2nd fiddle to a superstar and have rings or be the best player on a terrible team going no where.
Arsenalist,
Who provides or initiates the offense for a team, or is the primary scoring, etc., is not necessarily that team’s franchise player.
Howard [C] and Bosh [C] are not a good fit together … which is part of the reason the 2008 USA Olympic Team chose not to go in that direction while winning the Gold Medal.
Marc,
Do you understand what the word “might” means?
What are you referring to again? There’s a lot of “might”’s in this thread.
In case your wondering, I’m being spurious.
Babyface,
IMO, Bosh would have no qualms about being a No. 2 player on any team he’s a part of. That’s the kind of person he is.
What players like Chris Bosh [C] and Jose Calderon [PG] need, however, is other teammates who are as talented as they are, individually [if not more so] … and, specifically, they need a solid Back-up Point Guard, a solid Power Forward [who can rebound weak side misses, defend bigger than his size, and is tough-minded], and three solid wing players [with one of those being a big-time, clutch scoring player].
Our biggest trade bait is Bosh and we won’t get as much for bargs as bosh so we either have to ge lucky in the draft or trade bosh. Bosh IMO is weak post D man and is better as a weakside defender and rebounder as oppose to bargs who is better as a post defender than chris.
Sounds like we need an undersized C to play alongside Chris Bosh [PF]
Babyface,
If the Raptors keep Bosh, they won’t need to add as much, because they still have the better player between he and Bargnani.
On the other hand … if the trade Bosh, they still won’t have enough to compete effectively, as they will only have Bargnani [in comparison with Bosh] to go with what they get in return.
Individual defense in the post is not the most important phase of the game.
No I believe adding a 4 or 5 that is tough minded and can rebound could play off bargs. Plus adding a 2/3 that can slash and defend plus adding a good back-up point (sorry roko) would make his team much better. I believe bargs is very good scorer who still has alot holes in his game which can be fixed with age and experience. So don’t sleep on Bargs.
Babyface,
Another thing to think about is this:
OPTION 1 – Raptors keep Bosh and trade Bargnani to add an important piece or two going forward
Across the league, this type of move has a lot of credibility with the other elite level players.
OPTION 2 – Raptors keep Bargnani and trade Bosh to add an important pieces going forward
Across the league, this type of move might not have a lot of credibility with the other elite level players … who currently respect Bosh, and what he’s done to this point in the NBA, and might perceive this as the Raptors bailing out on him, rather than building around their best player.
Khandor
Option 3- The raptors lose Bosh in the 2010 offseason and all they have left is calderon, bargnani, and bunch of 30 old player past their primes, kapono and banks awful contracts.
We should atleast entertain offers from Golden state and Chicago don’t you agree.
….you fucking cretin…john salmons and gerald wallace have already turned down toronto….who in the fuck do you think they are going to get unless it is a trade???
Bargnani is not a max contract player..he is actually WORTH the money he is due…
That fucking weakling Bosh is being outplayed by Noah yet again….
God, I hope other teams don’t know he’s the most overrated player in the league yet…..
Babyface,
OPTION 3 … also leaves the Raptors with a $15.0 M salary slot to move forward and continue building.
Although not ideal, it might also be an option which retains the organization’s credibility across the league … as long there was every effort made to extend Bosh in the first place with a reasonable contract offer. If Bosh simply doesn’t want to be in Toronto at that point, there is still a decent chance that another very talented player might be willing to fill that spot knowing that the Raptors are an organization willing to pay their best player properly, and then try build around him with a commitment to winning. They would need to have a top notch coach in place to present that image across the league.
Credibility comes from winning and nothing else.
Bosh gained some credibility after winning gold in the olympics this summer, but he still has a lot to prove to the rest of the NBA.
Ooops, I meant Bosh [PF]
But like you said b4 one pitch to player to come to T-dot is to play with an all-star (which at the time is Bosh). Plus other teams will have similar capspace and they have better situtions than us. So the likely of getting an all-star in that free agent pool is unlikely
If Bosh left 30 million on the table to sign with another team. The Toronto Raptors would be the LAC East.
verbatim,
What’s apparent when talking about “franchise” players in a thread like this one is just how much some here focus exclusively on Offense rather than all three phases of the game.
re: the 2007-2008 NBA Champs
Last year’s Celtics needed all of their individual players to win the title.
Last year’s Celtics needed some of their individual players more than others to win the title.
Kevin Garnett was the most important Celtic last season.
IMO, those three sentences are not mutually exclusive from one another.
But Paul pierce was the most important player in the offseason.
Bosh comes alive in the second half….but it takes Mensah Bonsu to get the crowd (and team) going….that is the role of the max contract, franchise player…not the role player…
Babyface,
IMO, Pierce is a terrific player and quite under-rated. If you listen to what Doc Rivers has had to say, however, and the other Celtics, including Pierce, Ray Allen, Bill Russell, etc., and other NBA head coaches, it’s clear that Garnett was the straw that stirred the drink last season … which is not to say that the Celtics could have won the title last season without Pierce, because I do not believe that was the case at all.
Hopefully others are watching this Bulls’ game in the 4th quarter and noticing just how poorly the Raptors began to play as soon as they went to the following line-up:
C – Bargnani
PF – Bosh
SF – Marion
OG – Parker
PG – Calderon
The lead has now been cut to only 4 pts.
…oh,it isnt cuz they fell asleep from havin such a huge lead?…OMG LORD KHANDOR YOU’RE ONTO SOMETHING!
That’s their starting lineup who built up a double-digit lead up until the fourth quarter. It hurts your argument when you pick and choose what specific points in the game you want to cite, and ignore others where that lineup was playing well.
Brad Miller is playing really well right here … but it’s a mistake this possession for the BUlls not to be going with Noah & Ty Thomas.
And who the fuck is the guy expecting $130 million you fucking retard???
Who in the fuck completely disappears in thew clutch??
TOR 116, Chi 115 … 19.9 to go.
and this proves what? u lame ass.
Falling asleep had nothing to do with it. It’s because 2 of those 5 players are not playing their best positions in that specific line-up.
lol…it aint cuz the bulls shot 70% in the 4th qtr while we slept….lol.
oh man khandor…u are such a feeble minded dork.lol.
Raptors dodged 2 bullets, as the Bulls missed 2 flat-out layups.
its like u want them to lose to prove your sick twisted demented logic.
The Bulls shot 70% because 2 of those 5 Raptors are in the wrong positions.
ROTFLOLWKAS
u dumb bitch so why didnt they shoot that in the first qtr or anytime leading up to the 4th.the raps feel asleep u lame ass rainman wannabee….khandor ive come to appreciate your comedic worth in here.keep up being the punchline son.
Hopefully the Raptors can hang on for the W.
AP with 2 FT’s. Ah, oh …
The cretinous cunt khandor just can’t get it through his fat fucking head that it is not a matter of Bargnani or Bosh, it is a matter of whether Bosh is worth a max fucking contract….
I think until this cretinous cunt gets that through his thick fucking skull, he should be sent to the fucking cloakroom for timeout…..
Parker and Bosh….who will disappear faster in the clutch??
You … just … knew.
fuck! AP! it is like 100% that he will go 1 for 2 with any possibility to ice a game
ap=never clutch with ft.this is win win.we lose more pingpongs.we win,we fuck up the bulls playoff hopes.EXTRA BALL BABY.OT FTW….lets see who steps up.
The reason the Raptors don’t have a big-time clutch scorer on the wing yet … to go with Bosh & Calderon … is because of the player they chose with the No. 1 [overall] Selection in the 2006 NBA Draft.
he just hit a 3 faggot to give us a 1 pt lead…..khandor=punchline.
Nice to see Bargnani hit a solid J like that catch & shoot. Now if he can just eliminate his unproductive drives …
Solid D by Bosh … solid board by Bargnani.
… followed by a brain cramp, shot clock violation.
what predicated that u dumb fuck.marion was callin 4 it hardcore and jose held it 2 long and dumped it off to bargs for instant violation.
Yeah that was absolutely not Barg’s fault. Sure he should have jacked one up but it probably would have just been air anyway. Calderon should have thrown the alley oop to Marion. Worst thing that could have happened was a foul from the weak side.
Right here … up by 1 … it would be nice to see the Raps run a set play with a couple of screens for Bargnani’s J.
Now, down by 1 … it would still be nice to see the Raptors run a set play with a couple of screens being set for Bargnani as the shooter.
Noah in for D.
Solid take to the hole by Bosh, vs Noah … with a big follow, AND1 [foul by Rose].
Will be interesting to see how the Raptors defend on this possession.
Rose tried to thread the needle for a layup. Solid steal by Bargnani … who will make 2 FT’s.
If the Raptors would have stayed away from that closing line-up … they would have won going away. Still, each one counts in the W column and it’s always good to beat a playoff team.
You and your goddamn If’s. Maybe IF they did something differently they wouldn’t have won the game.
thats all hes got is hypotheticals predicated on assumptions and hindsight made out to be as if it was known and in the form of a question….lol.khandor makes me laugh.
A good win for the Raptors.
Like i said b4 who thinks that is winning streak is a postive for next year or negative cuz it gives the raptors the wrong impression of this roster which can screw in the following years.
So RR what do think of this winning streak
A win is much more fun to watch than a loss. Let’s see some more wins.
I’d rather see losses this year and have a better season next year cuz the right changes will be made
more wins.
MORE COWBELL!
Statement,
If you take a look at the Play-By-Play you should be able to see that the Raptors lead was not built on the back of that 5-Man line-up.
Calderon + Parker + Marion + Bosh + Bargnani
1stQ/12:00-05:07 … +5
3rdQ/12:00-04:22 … +1
4thQ/06:43-00:00 … -13
OT#1/05:00-00:00 … +5
=========================
TOTAL: -2
… give or take some situational substitutions for single possessions coming down the stretch of the 4th quarter.
what happened to the in-game chat that i see all these comments here?
verbatim,
As best as I can tell, the in-game chats on RR disappear from public record once the game ends. On the other hand, the in-game chats I prefer to participate in remain visible to others long after the fact. I will let you know if/when I participate next in one of those so that you can see for yourself what Flux and others [like Dave and LABallTalk, etc.] have been able to witness in the past. It’s something which you might enjoy. Analyzing how the game works in real time.
….lol,douchebag.
Khandor, here’s an idea. Start your own website where you can invite people to participate in your own “live game chat”…oh wait, never mind, highjacking is much easier isn’t it?
IMO, the in-game chats hosted by RR serve their purpose well; as do the in-game chats which I prefer that are hosted by others. It’s always interesting to see who the actual “hijackers” are in a thread like this one … i.e. those who post comments without making a point connected to basketball.