Jeff Green’s rebounded from his rookie year.It’s time to match our longest winning stream of the season: 3! It’s already happened twice, one when we opened the gates and mowed down Philly, Golden State and Milwaukee. Then we did it again in late January against Chicago, Sacramento and New Jersey. And now, nearly two months later, we got a chance to take it to 3 and beyond. It’s OKC and future Hall-of-Famer Kevin Durant at the ACC which means maybe you shouldn’t sell those tickets on Craigslist and actually take a peek at this one. Or better yet, find a scalper at the beginning of the third quarter and low-ball him. It worked for me a couple times. Or you could do what Realizar does, buy cheap tickets and use his smashing good looks to get all the way down to the 100 level and sit next to the BMO exec and start chanting stuff with Popeye Jones and house music references which never fail to draw scornful looks.
Jose Calderon missed practice yesterday due to the dislocated finger but is expected to play. It didn’t bother him much on Wednesday in playing 38 minutes so it can’t be that big of a deal. He’s dislocated that finger about 3-4 times already this season so he should be quite used to it. I was secretly hoping Triano would rest him so we could see Roko get some extended playing time against Russell Westbrook. Westbrook’s averaging 16 points and 5 assists on 40% shooting. He’s currently ESPN’s top-ranked rookie but I can’t see them not giving that award to Derrick Rose who’s neck-and-neck with him on most categories but is shooting a much more respectable 47%. Plus his team being in the playoffs should ice the deal. There’s a great post here which talks about the various facets of Westbrook’s game including how he could be a tweener, his tunnel-vision and his tendency to turn the ball over.
Roko’s attack mentality is a welcome sight and even his critics have to appreciate the simple fact that the guy looks to get his by driving to the rim. Sometimes his rookie mistakes tend to overshadow the good things he’s shown this year, for example his hot-potato treatment of the rock in end-of-quarter spells when Calderon’s taking a breather is a killer. A 2.2 AST/TO ratio isn’t exactly terrible, consider that Westbrook is at 1.51 and Rose is touching 2.4. The PER48 assists for Roko, Westbrook and Rose are at 7.5, 7.5 and 8.0, respectively. Am I saying Roko is as good as those two? Of course not, all I’m saying is that he needs more playing time so he can develop some consistency in his game and right now happens to be the perfect time to get him some time.
Andrea Bargnani’s talking after the practice and he’s saying the reason he’s been playing well lately is nothing more than him getting extended minutes:
It’s the first time that I’ve played this kind of minutes so of course I’m doing stuff that I never did before because I never played that much. That’s the difference, when you play 40 minutes its different than when you play 20 minutes. That’s what it’s all about.
Hard to argue given his form of late. Over his last 10 games he’s averaging close to 20/6 in 34 minutes, in that miserable December he averaged 8.6/3.4 in 24.5 minutes. His development is the silver-lining to this season so far. On a side note, here’s what he’s thinking before he responds to any question posed to him by the media: Huh? What a dumb question, you’re just asking me to relay common sense but if that’s all you want, sure I’ll give to you, Paul Johnson
25.9 points, 6.6 rebounds on 48.2% shooting. That’s what Kevin Durant’s doing season and to think that Leo said the guy has bad shot-selection. To put this in a Raptors perspective consider that Bosh’s best season as a Raptor came in 06-07 when he averaged 22.6/10.7 in his fourth year. Durant appears to be well on his way to surpassing those marks on a consistent basis and is headed for stardom. So when you’re dreaming up Bosh trade-scenarios this summer just leave him out of it because there’s no way OKC is parting with him. There are two players that I would love to see on the Raptors: Monta Ellis and Jeff Green. Green had a bad rookie season coming out of Georgetown last year and might’ve been had in the summer. This year’s he’s upped his scoring by 7 points, his rebounding by 2, his 3-pt shooting by a whopping 13% and his FG% by 2. The athletic 17/7 forward is a great sidekick to Durant and it’s going to be hard to pry him away from OKC but then again, Bosh’s lure could be high.
So they asked Anthony Parker about whether he’d use Twitter and he gave an answer something to the effect of that he’d rather spend time with his kids and that all he needs is text messaging. Truth is that unless he’s divulging plays and dirty gossip about the team, nobody would care what he has to say. Parker, great guy but a potentially terrible tweeter. He’ll be matched up against Thabo Sefolosha whose name I keep seeing in the “worst case” scenario on DraftExpress.com. While he’s guarding him, I’d assume that Marion will be given the task of slowing down Durant and let’s hope he does a better job of it than he did Wednesday against Richard Jefferson. That was a weak man-defense performance by Marion, let’s see how he fares tonight.
OKC has lost 3 of 4 and are starting a three game roadtrip where they’ll play Boston and San Antonio next. If they’ll win a game this is going to be it. Nick Collison out-manned Bosh on a late rebound and gave the Raptors their most embarrassing (at the time) defeat of the season in OKC and I just don’t see the Raptors slipping up again. We shot 36% in that game and gave up 20 fastbreak points, after the game Desmond Mason dropped this quote:
It felt like we won a championship
Mason’s out for the season after having knee surgery and Kevin Durant bruised his left forearm but is listed as probable for the game. He played 40 minutes in a loss to the Lakers so really, there’s no reason he shouldn’t play. For the Raptors, Marcus Banks had toe surgery and is out for the year, Bargnani has a sore left Achilles but will play, Humphries is out and Pops – who missed Wednesday’s game with a sore knee – practiced and is expected to play. Triano’s post-practice interview talks more about OKC, their bright future and their various weapons including one Nenad Krstic. There’s also talk of that three-point shooting game the Raptors play in practice.
The Raptors are playing their fourth game of a five game homestand and are 5.5 point favorites – I’m picking them (keep in mind I’ve been wrong the last two games). For the eye-candy, I’m going with Natalie who, when asked where she wants to be in five years, says she’d like to have a job, a house and a big tree.
Just throwing this out there but John Salmons is proving to be quite a pick-up for the Bulls. One more NBA tidbit, I caught a bit of the Portland-Phoenix game and LaMarcus Aldridge took four steps on a breakaway layup. Doug Collins noticed it, brought it up as a joke, and the game went on. This was a couple days after I saw Lebron take three steps multiple times against New Jersey. I didn’t make much of this at first but at some point you have to wonder if the scoring numbers are getting a little inflated because of these non-calls. I’m no basketball purist but it’s starting to take away from the game.
Finally, a word on the moderating, swearing, using/not using threaded comments and blah. We’re not going to moderate raps unless you spam, start impersonating someone or are downright inflammatory without making a basketball point. Look at nunya as an example, he/she uses words that could give a nun a heart-attack but as long as there’s basketball substance around it, it’s all good. Truth is that nobody has time to or wants to police and hates censorship so just try to play along nice. As for threaded comments, we prefer if you use them but if you’re adamant about not using them, we’re not going to force you because we’re reasonable people. So yeah, go Raps.
76 Raps
Too many steps on the breakaway is becoming downright rampant in this league. They really need to crack down on that but I don’t see it happening because everyone loves the highlight dunk. Players are concentrating on making a spectacular play instead of making sure they don’t take that extra step. Substance should always win over style.
Next time it happens, the ghost of Red Auerbach will strike down the offender and cause them to miss the dunk badly and get injured. Just watch.
Funny thing is the stars always get away with these calls (and also get phantom calls against them and non-calls on the defensive end when they foul someone). I love how these are supposed to be the greats yet the refs like to bail them out because of who they are. I mean, if these guys are so good, why do they need calls to go their way. I guess thats one of teh benefits to workign hard to be the best, you become like teflon.
Sure, stars get calls that go in their favor, but they have just as many that go the other way and those are the ones no one ever talks about. It’s one of the tough parts about refereeing a game where you have Iversons playing against Chris Quinns.
If defenders on Shaq in his prime were ACTUALLY called every time they fouled him, the game would be filled with non-stop whistles and ultimately end with one team not being able to field a five man team.
Not to mention the sheer number of plays that can be called both ways. And in those cases, I think it’s a non-issue that the benefit of the doubt go to the star.
I fucking hate travels on a breakaway.
They travel when they gather the ball to start the breakaway and they travel when they do their layup.
It’s disgraceful.
LEARN THE FUCKING RULES OR GTFO
Not to get in the middle of Andiamo and Khandor’s lover’s tiff, but Bargs is my favourite Raptor (even though we should have picked Brandon Roy or Paul Milsap instead of him and the fact that he’s a secondary star at best). He consistently gives the best interviews. My favourite being a halftime thingy he did with someone (Friedman?). Asked why he was shooting so well, Bargs just said “I don’t know” and pretty much walked off. If he had just added, “I’m a first-round pick in the NBA and I wasn’t picked for my rebounding”, it would have been the perfect sports interview.
And I can see him being part of a playoff contender (with a lot of help) in this town. Bosh? Sorry but I just don’t see it happening here.
Paul Milsap! He was a second round pick that year. Hindsight is always 20/20 my friend, i love Milsap but i think there was no chance that we were going to pick him number one.
We had a second round pick before where Millsap was chosen and we took PJ Tucker. Colangelo cant draft, unfortunately.
A bargnani interview is always classic…It begs the question…
Is it because of his limited understanding of English? Or is it because he aced the MATS or the SATs or passed the bar, whatever that test was?
The Caliper Test:
http://www.personality-and-aptitude-career-tests.com/caliper-test.html
Hey Arse,
Totally agree for your feelings about Ellis in a Raptors uniform. Do you think Mopedgate would scare the Raps off, as related to both injury history and intellect? And, do you think G.S. would be willing to get involved in a trade with Bosh & Calderon vs. Ellis & Biedrins as principles (after the BYC tag lifts July 1 of course)?
I don’t know how much Mullin or Nelson would value Calderon. He doesn’t exactly fit their up-tempo style, I could see them falling for TJ Ford before they fall for Calderon.
I wouldn’t give up Biedrins if I were them, good player with a good contract, those are hard to come by. Truth is we have no idea how much other teams value Bosh, personally I don’t think they’d take the trade you suggested but I think they’d be open for an Ellis/Bosh swap. I’d hold out for draft picks.
I would prefer biedrins and Randolph for bosh instead of ellis. Andreis would be a perfect frontcourt match to andrea and that would allow him to move to pf.
Randolph is going to be a special player and be already plays at such high energy now. He would be a perfect small forward (in due time) to go along with the two euros.
My apprehension with ellis is that he seems reluctant to play point. I think what we need can be gotten for calderon if bc decides that’s the route he wants to go.
Any Bosh trade will hinge on his willingness to sign an extension with the team that is considering trading for him. Adding a player of CB4 caliber (on offense) would drastically change a teams make-up and wouldn’t be worth turning a team upside down while also giving away assets for a one year rental and cap space…this will severely limit BC’s options.
…or we get 50 cents on the dollar – no thanks.
…or we bite the bullet and let him play out his tenure. If we can sign him, great (but is he worth max $?) or let him walk (Bosh will likely dicate) in exchange for $15 mill in cap space – this, in my opinion, is the most likely scenerio.
He’s not going to commit to a team before he’s traded to it, even if it’s the Mavericks. Getting 50 cents on the dollar is still better than letting him walk, remember T-Mac?
I think the decision isn’t in the hands of Bosh but BC, he’s got to be the one to decide whether this franchise is better off without Bosh and if so, let him pull a deal. I don’t like how Bosh gets to hold the cards to his future and our franchise, we should be the proactive ones and ship him out if he’s not what we want in our cornerstone player. This “let’s wait and see what Bosh thinks of the franchise in 2010″ is loser talk.
Wait and see what Bosh can do as the leader of this team next season. If it’s a mess again, blow it up and trade Bosh to a contending team for draft picks.
T-Mac was on a rookie contract (very little cap relief compared to Bosh) and was not a truly established player at the time (half a season of productivity out of 3 years)…and he strung our inexperienced GM along then stone-walled him, so it was a very different scenario but I understand your point.
My point is – what team would trade for Bosh and give up 15 mill in assets and picks for a likely one year rental? One that truly feels they could extend him or one that feels cap relief can assist them substantially in 2010 (when Bosh, oddly, is one of the big tickets) or one that will give us a player in a similar situation (likely to leave his current team)…tough pickings.
…and is 50 cents on the dollar worth more than Bosh in the recipe for one more season (with the chance to sign him long term if we are succesful) and $15m in cap space in ‘10 as the fall back? I guess it depends on the 50 cents and the potential of the players/picks. I’m still on the fence but my sense is that Bosh will be a Raptor next year and we roll the dice…worse case we have $15m in 2010 to re-tool (in what will be a cluster-*uck of a free-agent period).
Amen to that! Thank god for common sense…
2 things i can’t see:
1. bosh re-signing, or
2. BC letting him walk for nothing.
if bosh does re-sign, then it’s all but guaranteed to be for max $. is that the best move for the team? if yes, go to A; if no, go to B.
A – bosh re-signs. wither bargs? his deal expires next year, and he’ll have a huge cap-hold that they’ll have to address; if the raps want to be players in the FA market in ‘10 (outside of re-signing their own guys), they need to get his situation dealt with before then. if they go this route (building around bosh, with bargs a key – & expensive – part, they’ll have to pull some magic & unload one of (or both) of krapono &/or banks…and without being able to dangle bosh or bargs in trades (i.e. ‘we’ll trade bosh, but you have to take banks as well’), it will be extremely difficult to move them. keeping both on the roster severely limits their maneuverability.
B – bosh isn’t re-signed, either by his wishes, or those of the team. if it’s his decision, then that should be ferreted out this off-season, and every attempt to move him for good young player(s) & a pick should be made (and if possible, include either banks or kapano). if it’s the team’s decision (unlikely), they can simply use the ‘fresh-start’ excuse & move him this off-season. but if so, it’s not like they’ll get full value for him…that just doesn’t happen. but is $.75 on the loonie sufficient? is the cost of not getting ‘full’ value for bosh more damaging than simply letting him walk, and using the free space to sign someone else? who, in the FA class of ‘10, is going to replace what he brings, and is willing to sign with TO (after they’ve let the franchise guy walk, and with the cupboards looking kinda bare)?
Getting $.75 on the dollar for Bosh is a great if that dollar is his value as 3rd best player in the 2010 free agent bonanza. He’s a really solid player but, in my opinion, not a central piece of a team. If Chicago thought they will build around him (and Rose) and were willing to give up say, Deng/Gordon, Noah and filler (Brad Miller if Kapono/Banks goes with Bosh?) then I’ll take my $.75 please. The return the Raptors will get on Bosh as a max contract player is less than $.75 on the dollar.
And on another note Yertu, what are your thoughts on Harden/Henderson/any other SG prospect in the tournament now that the field is narrowing?
good points.
SG prospects – it’s a tough call, i really don’t see many (any?) sure-fire can’t miss differenc-makers. that being said, there are some good prospects with at least decent upside. i like henderson (wish he was an inch or two taller, but whatever), but i’m not sold on him…he’s been getting hyped up a lot, and will likely go in the top 10, which i think might be a shade high for him (though in this draft, who knows; he could very well turn out to be the best of the bunch); i’d be much higher on him if he had more PG skills, or was a bit bigger – seems like a tweener to me (like a lot of these guys, actually).
i’m not as down on harden as some; he’s played like shit the last month, but the overall body of work is solid. the games i saw him play over the last few weeks, he struck me as a guy who was dealing with a nagging injury – just didn’t look to get himself involved much. if he wasn’t injured…well, i dunno about him. you can’t shy away like that when the lights are brightest – he has all kinds of skill, but isn’t overly athletic, he’s not a very good defender, he’s a bit under-sized, and i wonder if, at his size, he’ll be able to get his shot off in the pros (he takes a sort of set-shot, doesn’t get much lift off the ground). but he can simply play, has excellent court vision, is fundamentally really sound, and is an excellent team player. it might be a case where his game translates better in the pros, when he’s playing alongside guys who are at the same level.
there are a slew of guys who are 50/50 – decent upside, but an equal likelihood of being flops/role players, etc. earl clark is intriguing. i’ve been unimpressed with aminu each time i’ve seen him, but he must have done something to warrant continued lottery talk. i’ve been impressed with derozan, but it’s been a relatively small sample size. he’d probably benefit from another year in college, if that year were spent in a system that could showcase his skills moreso than tim floyd’s (say, calipari’s in memphis). he’d be the guy i’d be interestd in if the raps pick around 8-10.
Paul Pierce, Michael Redd, Tony Parker, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, Tayshaun Prince, Al Horford, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Joe Johnson and Manu Ginobili are also free agents along with lesser hyped types like Rodney Stuckey and Josh Howard. The restricted free agent class includes Kevin Durant so you’ll get a pretty big argument of whether Bosh is the third best free agent in that group.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10
Bosh’s stock has declined with the recession, and the only way he can boost his stock is to get out of Toronto and play one year with another team to prove he is truly worthy of max money. I can see Bosh hoping to play for one of the Texas teams next season, without demanding an extension … and there will be teams who will agree to a one year trial season and even use him as a trading chip for the next season .. after all it is a convoluted business.
Bosh cannot tolerate another losing season in Toronto, nor can the Raptors start their rebuilding with Bosh staying another season here.
Bosh must go not only for his benefit but also for Toronto’s benefit. Keeping Bosh another season will prove disastrous for both.
I’ve put this out there before and wonder what the possibility would be now that it’s come to light that Bosh’s daughter lives in the Baltimore/DC area. Perhaps Bosh would be open to a trade with the Wizards. And perhaps Washington would be willing to trade Caron Butler and their 1st rd pick for Bosh and the Raps 1st. We could then replace Bosh with Griffon or Monroe or Thabeet. Thoughts?
What do Antawn Jamison and his new contract think of this?
Jamison can play 3. He’s mainly a perimiter guy as well.
I love watching the Thunder play, should be a nice game tonight.
I’m a simple country boy. You might say a cockeyed optimist, who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue.
Go raps :)
Bargnani is a better ‘team’ player than Bosh. I hate the idea of a “go-to” franchise player in game-ending desperation situations. I prefer an intelligent team effort and finding either the hot hand player or the unexpected.
Inadequate, impotent, and usually obese, tribal honking fans slobber over their ‘all-star’ hero and want him to be the one to crush the hated opponents … even without the help of his teammates.
A team with 3 consistent scorer-defenders is preferable to a marquee, all-star scoring machine surrounded by scrubs. Bball is a team sport, not a hero circle jerk a la tribal honking fan delusions.
I’d rather watch the Raptors win or lose as a team, and not be dependent on a ‘floor leader all-star type’ to save the bacon. Bosh does not belong in Toronto any longer … his time has run out and it’s time for him to depart.
I couldn’t agree more. Great insight.
I second that…
me too.
Best team balance = Pistons
I agree with your assesment of mulitple weapons and no primary target for opposing D to man-handle in critical end of game scenarios. However, Bosh and Barg mental approach seems to be directly linked to how they were “raised” in the NBA. Bosh was handed the keys after VC “left” and Barg’s was drafted as the complimentary piece to Bosh. However, I’ve noticed a shift in the past half-dozen games in that Bosh is starting to get more aggresive with offensive rebounding and not waiting for the ball to swing back to him (so I don’t think HE is opposed to sharing the load…it was just a necessity in the past). Bargs is also finally getting more touches and fed the ball in his “hotspots” on the floor. Maybe a 2-3 that can dribble-drive would complete the circle jerk of 3 scoring machine floor leader all-star types…defence, well that’s a whole ‘nother level that pains the brain.
I’m not convinced NBA basketball is as big of a team sport as you think. This is why, unlike any other prof. sport, a single guy can do so much more (ala Wade in Miami, etc..). I don’t think anyone has been able to single-handedly ‘will’ a team (maybe one could argue a goalie in hockey…but neither football, baseball, soccer, etc..where a single player makes as big of an impact) It has happened many times historically, in the NBA. Now; college, as we all know, is more systems based..but in the NBA its skill-based…thus my ‘NBA basketball’ opening liner. Basketball is a team sport – just not as much in the NBA, relatively speaking.
wow.
I take it you disagree with my theory. Explain?
i get what you’re saying with respect to college ball being dominated by ’systems’ & coaches over-controlling every possession, and so the aura of ‘teamplay’ is enhanced. but the NBA is, if anything, even more of a team game, ’cause the difference in terms of talent level is so close, that even one relatively minor hole in a lineup is often enough to turn a potential playoff team into a lottery-picking pile of dung (see: toronto raptors, wing play, 2008/2009).
there are, of course, exceptions, where an individual player is so much better than the majority of his contemporaries that their greatness is enough to rise an otherwise mediocre team to a certain level. but even in those extremely rare circumstances, teams based around a singular, overwhelming entity almost always lose out to a balanced team that receives contributions up & down the lineup…teams that may not be overpowering at any one position, but are built to not be overpowered by another team at any position.
the thing with college is that, despite the controlled systems in place in many programs, it often takes just one individual player to take a team from the NIT to the final four (see: kansas state with & without beasley). college programs that are successful year in & year out are based around similar concepts of team play, that while they differ in style, always keep the core fundamentals in the forefront.
A quarterback in football? A pitcher in baseball?
Every team sport has its superstars. But I agree that the NBA game is far less of team game than other basketball leagues.
A rarity…
LJB managed to single-handedly get the cavs to the playoffs (he now has some help).
Wade is basically managing it by himself.
Kobe has done it in the past.
All of these instances occurred w/in the past 10 years. There are more instances such as the ones mentioned. How ‘rare’ is it?
A solid team will beat a team with 1 star player. I agree. But given that the 1 player can generally get his team in, or close too the playoffs…then there must not be many solid teams? Or 1 individual has more of an impact than we believe.
Regarding the Bargs quote- sounds like something Joey G could have said mid-season, given his extended minutes that Triano gave him (back before the Marion trade). Now his minutes are dropping, and with them, his stats and play. Welcome back, bad Joey.
If Chris Bosh is traded between now and 2010, he will effectively be able to choose what team he wants to join. He will, or his agent will, give Colangelo a list of teams that he is interested in joining and Colangelo will have the option of selecting the best trade from those teams, or letting Bosh’s contract expire.
No team is going to give up major assets, especially young assets, for a player who is likely to leave for a better team in a few months time. And, any potential trade can be killed outright at any moment by Chris Bosh, simply by Bosh saying he will not sign a deal with his new team in 2010.
The closer it gets to Chris Bosh’s contract expiring, the more power and influence Chris Bosh has over the situation.
No commitment to a contract extension = limited trade value.
—————————————————-
If one were looking at possible trade proposals for Chris Bosh, it’s best to concentrate on teams which can put a possible contender on the floor in the near future …. because they’re the squads that Bosh would likely be agreeable to joining.
I’ve put this out there before and wonder what the possibility would be now that it’s come to light that Bosh’s daughter lives in the Baltimore/DC area. Perhaps Bosh would be open to a trade with the Wizards. And perhaps Washington would be willing to trade Caron Butler and their 1st rd pick for Bosh and the Raps 1st. We could then replace Bosh with Griffon or Monroe or Thabeet. Thoughts?
I think Bosh would take Chicago, New York or LA as a destination whether he thought the team was going to the finals in a year or not. He’s pretty up front about his desire to market himself
Contrary to popular belief, the NBA game, played at its highest level, is the epitome of effective teamwork, driven by the unique combination of individual highly specialized talents possessed by each separate member of the group committed to a single/unified cause. Ubuntu!
- Bhand[or], 007 [Licensed to Post, at-will]
I may have not articulated my thesis clearly, for you and Sam. For the highest level in North America, teamwork is supposed to be front and present, yet not many teams exude this. Relative to other prof. sports, it is even less clearly seen, as an individual can impact a season by himself.
An amazing hitter in baseball can come up one every 9 times. He can only cover so much field.
A SP can win you every game that he starts, but he starts one every 5 days.
Baseball is covered off.
Football and soccer. Too much to go on here, but if needed I can go in depth why these two sports do not allow 1 individual to affect a team as much as in basketball.
Hockey
You can be the greatest hockey player alive, but its rare to have a guy single-handedly be able to win a game, let alone over the course of a season by himself (other than potentially a goaltender).
Sorry, didn’t meant to mention Sam in there.
More RBB, less Khandor!
More Sam, less Khandor!
More anyone except Khandor!
Basketball, like all team sports, requires a cohesive unit, to be successful but RBB is absolutely correct in stating that an individual player in basketball has more value to a franchise and can have more impact in a game than any other sport.
lol.lord khandor approves your post dude!what a fucking megalomaniac, anyways…….i like bosh.id like him to stay.that crap with his ex has been hanging over his head all season and like a skeleton in the closet he knew it would eventually come out and that must have weighed on him tremendously.now that its out,i think we’ll probably see bosh at his best with the weight off him for the remainder of the season….is there any chance in hell the raps brain trust can sit down with bosh and his reps and explain to him he is a huge part of this teams future but unfortunately isnt worthy of a max team crippling contract.if we can get bosh to sign for a respectable amount we can use some coin to get another top tier product to help….can bosh set aside his ego for this,because if he cant he needs to be shipped out regardless if its .50 on the dollar…im not sayin a lowball offer but something reasonable for a solid contributor who isnt clutch or game altering like most max ballers are.
RBB,
Hopefully you can see how what you’ve written here fits well with what I’ve had to say also.
Ok, I see where it fits in, I believe. That being said…see my response to the original post (instead of my repeating myself).
no one has once mentioned a sign/trade scenario with Bosh, maybe even this summer…
I can envision BC doing a Lee/Robinson for Bosh deal for some reason(maybe with picks, maybe not)…something I can see happening.
That’s not enough for a 4-time all-star.
not saying it’s enough on it’s own or not enough….nor something I would do…just saying it’s a deal I can see happening with those players at the core of the deal.
No team is going to trade the #1 overall pick for a Chris Bosh one year rental. I just can’t fathom a GM being that short sighted, even with the history of GM stupidity in the NBA. Blake Griffin looks like he COULD be a great player in the NBA. It isn’t a foregone conclusion, but the fact that he COULD be great is enough for any GM to pick Griffin #1 overall and not consider any trade for that pick except for Kobe, Lebron, Wade or Chris Paul.
I don’t think you can point to the Wizards and say that they can do with Bosh, what Boston did with Garnett and Allen, like that is some sort of blueprint for success in the NBA. Boston did not trade the #1 overall pick to acquire Ray Allen. If they had the #1 pick, they would have kept it.
The only way the Raptors are getting Blake Griffin is winning the draft lottery.
Having said that, I do think Bosh could be worth a late 1st round pick + a prospect + a solid rotation player if traded to a team with serious championship aspirations next year. Orlando doing a sign and trade with Turkoglu + Courtney Lee + their 1st rounder for Bosh could benefit both teams. Also, New Orleans may consider trading Chandler + Julian Wright + their first rounder for Bosh.
I may be wrong in estimating what Bosh’s value is with only one year left on his contract, but if I were a GM that thought my team was one solid player away from being a serious championship contender, I would at least consider making a move for Bosh.
This makes sense, nobody’s going to give you an unbelievable “please trade Bosh to us, we beg you” deal. You have to aim for a lottery pick and a young player with some potential, that might get it done and that’s why I’m always preaching the Ellis+pick trade.
I wonder what Mark Cuban’s thoughts are on Chris Bosh. The Mavericks in their current form aren’t going anywhere and you have to think Cuban’s looking to blow the ship up, he might be interested in Bosh and could give up mid to late first round picks. Personnel wise the only guy I like on the Mavs is Brandon Bass which fits the “solid rotation player” spot which you mentioned in your proposed trade package.
On the other hand you have to think that this season hasn’t helped his trade value so maybe its better if we wait till next year’s deadline and see if a desperate team bites and overpays if Bosh is playing well. The flip side to that is that teams know that they might get into a classic rent a player situation with only 30 games left (what we have with Marion).
RBB,
One of the difficulties in presenting your perspective, however, is just how easily certain others can then become deluded into thinking that the effect of individual players #2-to-15 on a team that succeeds in a big way can somehow be minimized by the overwhelming force of player #1, and his unilateral will to influence a game.
In contrast to what you said earlier, IMO, D-Wade [for example] is in fact not “getting it done” by himself in Miami; at least, right now. In actuality, the negative effect of certain missing pieces, or deficient pieces, on the Heat’s current roster scattered between players #2-to-15 is holding their team back from moving further up the EC and becoming a legitimate threat to reach the NBA Finals this season.
In a similar but opposite way, when the Heat was able to win the title with Pat Riley at the helm, it was due in major part … not only to the stellar play of Flash that season, but also … the terrific performances of players #2-to-15, on that team, which Shaq repeatedly made reference to in the playoffs that year, i.e. 15-WORKING-AS-1.
Yes, the effect 1 player can have on a team’s overall performance is considerable in the NBA … and, that 1 player can be scattered anywhere throughout that team’s list of #1-to-15, both positively and negatively, when it comes to being able to win the league championship.
1st paragraph: Thats understandable; however I cannot vouch for anyone else’s thought process.I am speaking for myself nor would I become deluded (not that you implied that I would)
2nd paragraph: You’ve kind of reserved the whole argument, as I understand it, by implying things holding them back (IE deficient pieces), as apposed to saying what is currently propelling them forward (D-Wade). I’m implying its basically a 1-man army..whereas you are implying its a strong team, missing a piece or two (and though you may think its putting words in your mouth..to imply that they could become a legitimate threat to make the finals, implies minimal tweaking and that they are currently a good team. If you’re not implying minor tweaks..then one can’t argue that they are a good team, nor is something holding them back, instead of someone propelling them forward).
3rd paragraph: Agreed. To be the champions, I concur it becomes a team game and not an individual effort. That can be said of any team-sport. My posts are simply stating what Raptoronto phrased more succintly: “Basketball, like all team sports, requires a cohesive unit, to be successful but RBB is absolutely correct in stating that an individual player in basketball has more value to a franchise and can have more impact in a game than any other sport.”
4th Paragraph: Nothing to add/refute.
Anyway, gonna take off soon. Enjoy your weekend all.
Our 4 time all star has recently been called out by a REAL all star about his play and lack of toughness. Do you really think we’ll get much more for him? He’s underperformed all season.
And where’s the leadership?
Scott.
OK….so I’ve been reading this site for a while, but never felt the need to post…I love the raps, am devestated with this season and been trying to figure out best fit….what you guys think about Tyreke Evans potential to be available mid to late 20’s in the draft? Raps buy a pick and start him next year…i know the kid cant really play defense, but what about the thought of the raps just being an offensive team??? completely disregard the need for defense??? ok in all seriousness…what are your thoughts on how he could fit with the raps???
he won’t be around in the 20’s, he’s likely going in the lottery. if he declares, of course.
really you think lottery??? WOW….I figured based on his tourney play he would move up from late 20’s but LOTTERY??? … well then fine….do we take him with the 8 (that we are in line for right now)???
well, where he likely winds up going won’t be known for a couple months, and it depends on who declares & who backs out. i mean, rubio hasn’t declared, turner says he’s staying, monroe is questionable to come out…it all affects who goes where.
as for evans, i like his game, he’s really taken to the PG role (it’s his natural spot…was playing out of position at the 2 for the first part of the season), and that’s where he’ll wind up as a pro (though it may take a season or so to adapt fully to the pro game). for that reason, i’m wondering if taking him is prudent, when there are other needs that should be filled first (i.e. 2/3). that being said, the general feeling is you take the best player available to you…and so the question becomes, ‘is he the best available?’ goes back to who’s available…personally, i think he’s got major upside…but i also think derozan & clark do as well. all things being equal (i.e. if evans & derozan are both available, and both are considered ‘best available’ types), doesn’t it make sense to draft the guy who’ll fill the biggest need?
put it this way. unless they can move banks, they’ll be heading into the season with 3 PGs under contract for roughly $15M – is it reasonable to think that maybe adding another PG (who could definitely play some 2, though i’m not overly fond of his perimeter game) for a couple mil is the prudent thing to do, esp. if the wing position(s) haven’t been solidified?
my interest in evans would be to have him as an undersized 2…slasher/scorer type…not a distributer…i know a lot of peeps on this site seems anti calderon…i am not in that boat…other than jose’s ridiculous sideburns, i think the kid’s got skills (offensive)…i think we just say f@ck the defense and play high quality ‘O’….I know defense wins championships (blah blah blah), but really…I think we all agree this team is far away from a contender, so lets get evans, have a high octane offense (not necessarily run and gun, just high octance…like 120/game hahaha) and get back to enjoying the raps….lets be honest 2 years ago when we won the division….did anyone really believe we were a contender to go beyond 2nd round? no…was it a letdown to not make it to second round? yes…was it fun as hell to watch/be part of???? HELLS YEAH!!!
I love the biedrins/randolph for bosh deal. and I think it would be reasonable for both teams. I’d take ellis too but not if we have to trade calderon for him as I just don’t think he’s a pg.
i can’t see a deal involving GS w/ bosh as the principle, simply because they aren’t close to being a contender & don’t play in a major market, hence their ability to actually re-sign him would be just as low as TO’s.
i’m of the thinking that unless he’s signed to an extension before being dealt, there really shouldn’t be much expectation that the raps will get much in return. if they deal him this summer w/o doing an extension, like others have stated, i find it hard to believe a team would give up anything close to what he’s worth (i.e. 60 cents on the buck) in return. let’s not kid ourselves…moving bosh and not getting significant pieces back isn’t going to help. they MUST get a legit wing and/or a legit frontcourt player, a legit prospect, and a decent pick.
I think there is still a lot of trade value in chris bosh. He’s a younger guy so we are less likely to get hosed (like the vc or iverson deal). It’s just about bc finding the right player to take back.
Remember just last year Devon Harris was had for a very old Jason Kidd.
I love the Thunder like I love Portland….I would give anything to have either of these as our home team…Durant is a true franchise player in the making and the chemistry of the cores of both of those teams is excellent.
Two teams absolutely worth rooting for..unlike the complacent, weak, passive, arrogant Raptors.
..and for the last fucking time, I am a female….
The question is whether these two teams will just end up being the farm team for the bigger market teams…keeping all those guys together for a stretch might be a stretch. Should be interesting.
don’t know and don’t care which way you go but … I’m turned on
RBB,
re: 2nd paragraph
It’s not a 1-man army that’s making the Miami Heat tick this season at an improved clip, in comparison with last year …. it’s the presence of an improved, supporting cast, which is:
A. superior to the 2007-2008 version [and allowing D-Wade to perform on a higher plane],
B. inferior to the title-winning version, but
C. still not at the level it needs to be in order to form a legit challenge to the top dogs in the EC.
[i.e. It's incorrect to say that I think the Heat are a "strong" team this season. You would be correct, however, to interpret what I said to mean that I think the Heat are a "stronger" team this season, primarily, because of their supporting cast which, in turn, is allowing their #1 player to perform at a higher level, still.]
Dwayne Wade was injured last season. Period, end of story.
No Wade, no team.
You can break it down all you want, it all comes down to this fact.
The Heat has been watching film of O’Neal to see if they can determine why he’s struggling to rebound in recent games. – The South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports.
Does a 12 year vet need video to figure out why he isn’t rebounding? Wonder if Heat fans sugar high for the Jermanio duo is fading?
2007-2008 Miami Heat vs 2008-2009 Miami Heat
Nuff, said.