I love the internet and the world of blogging.
If I write that the Raptors could win 50 games if Colangelo goes out and makes one more move to solidify his bench (as I did after the O’Neal trade) I get labeled a homer and told that I’m part of the problem with fans in this city. If I write that the Raptors’ season is over as long as Triano is the coach because guys like Bosh just aren’t committed to playing hard under him (as I did in December) I get told that it’s people like me and my doom and gloom forecasts and knee jerk reactions that are killing this franchise and I should stop overreacting. And yet, time and time again, as the weeks pass, the reality of the scenario comes to the forefront. Phdsteve tells the truth and the Raptors will never win as long as Triano is the coach.
If I hear Leo, Jack, Matt, Colangelo, Sherm, PJ, Triano, Doug Smith, or anyone else in this town mention injuries as the reason for this teams disgusting record one more time, I think I may, in fact, punch someone.
Yes, I also predicted a 50 win team (with the side note that if Calderon rolled an ankle this team would be lucky to win 30 games) but come on, look at the real stats and see why this team is losing.
I get it, the bench is thin, the top guys like Bosh, O’Neal, Bargnani, and Calderon, all missed time and there was a mid season coaching change that didn’t take. But there is more going on here that the main stream guys just wont say – this team quit. It’s not an issue of talent, hey dont suck, in fact, if you look at the starting 5 it’s puzzling why they lose so much. The answer is that they have no heart and it starts at the top: the coach, the franchise player, and the #1 overall pick – all have no heart. They all quit on this season long before the new year and that is, well, inexcusable.
It cant be the bench: I mean did Boston and the big 3 blame their bench? They had no bench in the first 4 months of their championship season and yet they were winning at a rate of close to .700. Sure, Allen, Pierce and KG have been awesome together, but all the local media hype in Toronto continues to suggest that: Calderon is almost an All-Star, Matrix was a defensive player of the year candidate (and max money guy), Bosh is a franchise player, and Bargnani is starting to live up to the hype of a #1 overall pick. And none of this is true. I mean, if any of the Raptors starters were actually All-Stars or max money players, the combination of them playing together should be enough to win them (or at the very least steal them) a game or two every now and then. Look at Wade, he has no one on his team and he is singlehandedly taking them to the playoffs?
So whats the real deal?
For arguments sake lets give this team a mulligan for the first 45 games. Lets pretend that in fact it was the injuries and that “oh so tough schedule to start the season” that everyone kept talking about that led to Sam’s firing and the dismal start to the season. Instead, lets just look at this team since the All-Star break and examine why this team is actually losing:
During the break Shawn Marion was acquired for O’Neal (the second Colangelo scapegoat of this lost season) but the team has gotten worse, not better.
Since the break the team’s record is 4-11 winning less than 1 in every 3. This is even below their abysmal seasonal winning percentage of .357 and at a clip that only teams like Washington and Sacramento can compete with (and both those teams were actually missing their franchise players for 1/2 the season).
What is even more disturbing is that since the break the team has enjoyed perfect health. Bosh has only missed 1 game, Bargnani the same, and Calderon and Marion have played in every game. So, if this team has all the talent to compete how is it then that they continue to loose?
It’s because they don’t care. They know this season is going nowhere, they have known it since that fateful night in Utah when Jay Triano stood behind the bench after Mitchell had been fired and the GM had committed publicly to keeping the one-time Canadian national treasure on as the head coach for the entire season. They lost by 30 that night, and the losing has continued at an alarming rate. How could he be the guy to save us? It was a sad admission by the clubs top brass that the season was a write-off. The players have simply taken their cue from the GM and stopped caring too.
So here is my proposal: make the moves that are necessary. Fire the coach, slash the roster, pick up multiple late 1st round picks, and aggressively attack the FA market.
Don’t just blow it up but “blow it up real good.”
Coaching:
- Iavaroni is not the answer. Messina is not the answer. Only a veteran NBA coach with a proven NBA record (and a successful one at that should be interviewed). The new coach must demand respect and effort by his name and reputation alone.
- Pick a system and go with it. Make up your mind one way or the other and just do it. Whole hog. If you want to run and gun then hire a coach who will run and give him the players to do so. Stop signing halfcourt players like Calderon and Kapono to big deals and trading away assets for halfcourt players like O’Neal if you want to run and gun.
- Once you have your coach and system in place get rid of everyone who cannot play that system. Period.
The Existing Roster/Payroll:
- Keep only 1 of Bosh and Bargnani (and insist that whatever team wants the other takes Kapono’s contract)
- Keep only 1 of Parker, Graham, or Delfino
- Keep only 1 of Calderon or Roko – and buy out Banks.
- Keep only 1 of Pops, Jake V, or Humphries
- Send Jawai to the D League for the entire season next year or cut him and save the cash
The Free Agent Market:
- Aggressively go after restricted free agents. Many teams are feeling the economic strain and looking to save money and others are looking to make cap space for 2010, therefore several good young players could be easily signed away from other teams. RFAs include: Josh Childress and Marvin Williams in Atlanta, Raymond Felton in Charlotte, Linas Kleiza in Denver, Jarrett Jack in Indy, Juan Carlos Navarro and Hakim Warrick in Memphis, Ramon Sessions in Milwaukee, David Lee and Nate Robinson in NY, Channing Frye in Portland, Rashad McCants in Sacramento and Paul Milsap in Utah
- Use cap space to sign veteran players who have “an edge.” Guys who will not only show up every night but will punch someone else on their team if they mail it in so that they can rush off to be the guest weatherman on the local news. This summer guys like Ron Artest, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Jamal Crawford, and Chris Anderson are all on the market. Most of them are coming off of big money deals and will be fortunate to get anything close to the mid-level. This team needs a little bit of toughness.
- Attack some of the better players on the market who are looking for a bigger deals than their teams are willing to pay because they already have someone else to play their position. Guys like Ariza or Odom in LA (since its inconceivable that LA re-signs both to $6-8 million deals). Same goes for Utah if Boozer and Okur both opt out and guys like Millsap are also on the market. I spoke with Sam Smith last week at NBA.com about the Bulls and he suggested that there really wasn’t any space for Ben Gordon, not with Hinrich, Rose, Deng, and the recent addition of Salmons taking up space in the Windy City.
- Buy wisely – veteran players who are not stars but solid contributors and who will bring a presence both on the floor and in the dressing room will come cheaper this year than most seasons. Guys like Antonio McDyess, Michael Finley, Bobby Jackson, Joe Smith, Kevin Ollie, Flip Murray, Juan Howard, Devean George, Anthony Carter, Tyron Lue and Rasho Nesterovic.
The Draft:
- Trade down! This is a great draft to stockpile a couple of late first round picks, since there are so many good young PGs and SGs coming out and so few of them appear to be lottery bound. As usual, the lottery tends to focus too much on size and potential which often leads to many valuable NBA-ready players (with less “upside”) slipping in the draft. Think of Chalmers or Rondo. Teams later in the first round such as the Blazers, Magic, Celtics, Lakers, and Cavaliers might be motivated sellers, willing to take nothing more than cash for their pick. Many teams have already unloaded their late first round picks: with the Bulls, Kings, and Thunder all boasting two first round picks, while the Timberwolves have 3! Why not send Bosh to Minnesota for all three picks and Mike Miller (to make the salaries work). Think Mitchell might be interested in coaching a Minnesota team that boasts Jefferson, Bosh, and Love in the front court?
Ive already written a piece about the point guards in the draft this year. The same can be said for the SGs, there will be lots of quality players available in the late first round. Ive got a column coming later this week on this topic so check back!
The point is simple. This team doesn’t suck, no, instead it’s just a team of quitters so break’em up. Turn over the roster and start again. Do it while you still have the chips to make some moves and a fan base that cares.
As always, standing in the key, I’m the Dr. I’ve got my feet planted and I’m planning on taking a charge!
phdsteve
211 Raps
The best thing the raptors can do, buy a pick in the back end of the first round and draft Patrick mills if he declares. Really quick and a decent shot, plus he held his own against the US team in Bei Jing. Please get him BC
uuuummmmmmmmm……. Ooookk post.
1. I don’t think Andrea quit. Would have he “improved” as he did, had he? And i blame JO for coming in here, and spreading the “Hey, this team sucks” promotion, after he checked out in a few games with “injuries”. It was him that told the rest of them: “I’ve been on a contending team, and this Gentlemen, is NO contending team.”
2. NONE, and I mean NOT ONE, of the guys you listed as FA are coming here, regardless of what we pay them. And let’s say they do, you are going to have to pay them LARGE to come to a crappy situation. Then they won’t produce and everyone will Kapono them – “What are paying that stiff again?” Maybe Navarro or Kleiza show up, but the latter loves the Nuggets. Sorry Dinosty.
2. Having said all that, NO respectable coach is coming here, to a crap roster. Maybe some guy trying to prove himself. The only hope you got there is some top notch guy hurting for cash, but I don’t see it.
3. Did you in one paragraph BLAST the local media “cheerleaders” for using injuries as an excuse and then use the same one in the next for your failed prediction? : )
I appreciate you grandiose plans in the form of a major overhaul, I have zero faith in BC pulling something like that off, based on the spectacular moves this season, and the last few offseasons.
Once again, sitting on the bench, I’m FLUX, waving a towel Hassan Adams style.
Hassan Adams days of waving towels are over! He’s gonna be our starting two guard next year!
I heard from a buddy that BC’s in negotiations with Popovich and Phil Jackson so we should have the established coach whose very presence demands respect part of the equation in place soon. I also heard he’s talking to a medium about making contact with the ghost of Red Auerbach. Gotta hope one of those options works out because if the Raps are hiring an out-of-work coach with NBA experience they will be picking over a series of flawed retreads. But in that case at least BC will be able to have a press conference with a guy most fans have seen on TV before. I pray to god he makes a known choice rather than getting his plan for the team in order and finding a coach who can make it work, whether that coach is a known quantity or not. Head coaching experience that gets you fired is far preferable to someone whose got a vision of how to run a winning basketball team.
Messina 2009!
What about Avery Johnson? Jeff Van Gundy? Hubie Brown? Eddie Jordan? Flip Saunders? No, dont like any of them?
You know last season people were saying no way to guys like Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle but look at the job they are doing.
Two seasons back people were saying the same things about Stan Van Gundy.
Im not syaing to bring in Mike Fratello here- or even any of the above mentioned guys- but hiring unknown assistants hasnt worked out in Toronto: from Kevin ONeil to Sam Mitchell to Jay Traino.
Every coach eventually gets fired. That doesnt make them a reject. Each scenario is different. I mean, Avery Johnson has a career winning percentage of alomst 70%? Rudy Tomjonavich(?) won 2 titles in Houston but couldnt get the post Shaq Lakers to the playoffs.
JVG – grind them down, slow down the pace type. Contra Run and Gun BC.
Hubie – too old to travel. As much as I think his heart is into coaching, his body will not comply. Love the guy tho.
Eddie Jordan – couldn’t get team loaded with stars past a LeBron team with a bunch on nobodies (essentially), how many times? What’s he gonna do with this roster?
Flip – couldn’t get KG teams with nobodies past the 1st round (OK, it was the west) but then can’t get a Pistons team with stars over the hump. Meh. Also, CBills and Sheed said he’s a pushover and doesn’t hold guys accountable.
Avery – wanna see him with a crapola roster. Think he has a Phil Jax approach tho (must have real roster) as opposed to fix em up Larry who will take on 5 guys from the local Staples and make em reach the playoffs.
I won’t argue any of these guys would be an improvement over the “unknowns”, again tho.. I don’t see any of them having the Raps as their top destination.
true enough. lots of good points here flux.
avery johnson is, in my humble opinion, the most overrated coach in the league.
dallas was loaded with dirk, josh howard, jason terry, devin harris, stackhouse… somehow they were awful to watch at times..
this guy has no offensive system.. just isolation and 1 on 1
flip saunders made the pistons a better offensive team, while keeping the defense intact.
JVG – I agree with what you said. I never liked the job he did with the Rockets, they were an underperforming team while he was there. His style is slow any boring.
Eddie Jordan – he’s alright. Remember, Lebron and a bunch of nobodies currently have the best record in the NBA. Lebron is THAT good. So I think Eddie Jordan did a decent job, he got them to what, a #5 seed a couple of times? That’s pretty good for that roster. Their frontcourt was terrible, nothing he could do about that. I think he’s a pretty good coach, and he deserves a look from the Raptors.
Flip – One of the best coaches in (or out of?) the NBA. He’s a brilliant offensive coach, and does a good job of developing young players. Look at the way the Pistons fell apart right after they fired him. Flip should be the #1 coach that any team looks at.
Avery – Got way too much hype after one good year. I don’t think he’s really a very good coach.
rudy tomjanovich did not finish that post shaq season with the lakers. he resigned due to health problems and the lakers just tanked the season then.
the reason why sean avery johnson had a quite successful period in dallas is because he just taught them what dallas doesn’t have, DEFENSE. dallas were the “phoenix suns” before avery took over, all offense, 120+ ppg, 115+ opponents ppg. they just outscore their opponent to win the games. they were loaded with scorers dirk, finley, nash, jamison, walker, van exel, lafrentz,. they had a decent rivalry with sacramento, i think they split their series wins, but they always were shutout by the spurs in the conference finals. that’s why when avery came and taught them tough D, they were quite unstoppable, scoring 100 pts and holding their opponents to 70-80 pts. but avery himself has no offense. like what JJ said, isolation, 1-on-1, built on dirk.
in our case, the coach is not the problem. i still believe that jay is a decent coach. we don’t need to spend millions for a new head coach. rather, i prefer that the team should hire a special assistant coach to mentor our bigs (bargs) like kareem to bynum, ewing to yao and dwight, or a defensive specialist, or just someone to bring toughness to these bunch of softies. is charles oakley available? but our main problem is the team roster itself. just dump the shitty douchebags and crap, put them in a package with bosh and get some better, decent guys who are worth the money and the years.
thank god steve has no affiliation with this team.
Thank God you don’t either.
ya, you’re right.
I’d hate to have someone in the front office who actually wanted to change things for the better, ate-drank-and-slept basketball, and had the cahones to speak his mind even when he knows he’s going to get blasted atleast 50 times a day by fans on the internet.
that would totally suck.
I like the idea of Flip for head coach, JVG and Hubie Brown not so much. Also, near impossible to fill pretty much 9 or 10 roster spots, I think if more of the team was kept in tact (Calderon and Ukic will both stay, can’t get value for Ukic, we should draft a wing), and 2 of Delfino, Parker and JG will probably be kept. The roster can be made much better with not as large of an overhaul.
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/607198
BOSH DEADBEAT DAD…..with football field forehead girl.
HOLY FUCK!
is that why he became so reluctant to go to the hole
hah – amazing
hahaha comedic genious!
Geez…sounds like Bosh isn’t going to be the face of the franchise anymore…
WOW! Didn’t see that one coming. I went to a couple Raptors games and saw his cousin sitting alone, I was wondering where big forehead girl was. Didn’t know this was in the works.
They conceived on all-star weekend, thats the first time I saw her too sitting coutside of the rook-soph game I think.
Just another excuse for a shitty season…
The Fall of Chris Bosh??? Anyone???
Sounds like Bosh’s “lil’ guys” are great on offense … but shouldn’t there have been a “pill defense” … or did she intentionally let down her defense because she wanted him to “score” …???!!!
Read everything on the subject and it screams “Crazy Bitch Lawsuit”. Seriously. Why would an unmarried 25y/o NBA superstar give his chick fertility drugs?!? Bosh isnt dumb – he’s an honours student that based on his youtube channels and websites understands what “building an image/brand” is all about. This whole thing is going to be seen as a joke by the end. Book it.
Dude, he’s admitted it’s his daughter.
Did i say it wasnt? It smells like “dont worry I’m on the pill” when she really means “dont worry I’m on fertility drugs”. The kid is his, but its a shame that it’s nickname will end up being “mommy’s little paycheque”.
Thinking out loud,do you think Bosh’s personal baggage as per todays T.Star have anything to do with his body language.
maybe…my memory is a bit fuzzy but remember when Kobe was accused of rape a few years ago? He played some great bball during that time…
I think Jordan won multiple titles while dealing with gambling and fidelity issues as well.
Andrea missed time? He has missed ONE game in the last 160 or something like that. Wake up and do a little research before you write something.
I know.
You missed the point-
the point was that the mainstream media has continually defended the tems performance this season by stating that the team has been decimated by injuries. And while that holds true in the first half of the year- when Bosh, JO, and Jose all missed games- but not true since the all star break when between the Raps top players, almost no games were missed.
Steve,
A few questions about your article.
Wrt not caring: Bargs’ production has gone up as well as his work ethic – one could argue he cares. Jose @ least outwardly seemingly cares. jay is trying to be a head coach for the forseeable future – he is definitely working and cares. Any of the guys flirting with a contract next year care (or any trying not to be D-league rejects). So..I would assume the majority do actually care. Why do you believe that the majority don’t? Thats not even mentioning the innate hate of losing for all of them I would assume has to happen since they chose this path in life.
You mentioned that they are quitters and lack the fortitude to battle through hard times – thats a fair opinion and is shared by many. But my question for you then, is this: How did they make it to the NBA? I agree that certain guys are mentally tougher than others…but its such a battle just to get there for athletes. I could counter by saying that these guys are, in general, way more mentally tough than the general public just by the way that they are hard-wired. We have all played on sports teams…and think we are mentally tough enough to compete in our D means basketball beer league…yet these guys are less mentally tough than us? I find it hard to believe even half of them are, let alone the majority of the team. Corollary being, I’m not sure if I can buy that argument..unless you had further supporting evidence.
Since you are right, you cant really proove body language, or effort, I would simply point your attention to the following:
here are just a few of the games where either:
a)they didnt show up against a good team and got stomped- or
b) they lost to a team they should have easily defeated.
in almost every games the key stats like:
points in the paint, fast break points, rebounds, and other “hustle stats” were dominated by the opposing teams.
Fri, Dec 19 @ Oklahoma City L 83-91
Mon, Dec 29 @ Golden State L 111-117
Wed, Jan 14 Chicago L 98-102
Fri, Jan 16 @ Indiana L 104-111
Wed, Jan 21 @ Detroit L 76-95
Fri, Jan 30 Milwaukee L 85-96
Sun, Feb 1 Orlando L 90-113
Tue, Feb 3 @ Cleveland L 83-101
Sat, Feb 7 @ Memphis L 70-78
Wed, Feb 18 Cleveland L 76-93
Fri, Feb 20 @ NY Knicks L 97-127
Fri, Feb 27 @ Phoenix L 113-133
Sun, Mar 1 @ Dallas L 98-109
Tue, Mar 3 @ Houston L 97-107
Fri, Mar 6 Miami L 102-108
Wed, Mar 11 @ Philadelphia L 106-115
Mon, Mar 16 @ Charlotte L 86-112
Fri, Mar 20 Charlotte L 89-102
We’ve all performed poorly at games before. Not all of those loses can be attributed to the whole team playing bad. Might have been a few players which were the deciding factor, and not the same players every time.
We’ve all stood on our heads certain games also. Same could happen with the opposing team playing well as apposed to us playing exceptionally poorly.
Its a job. Well, I’m typing this at work. I wouldn’t say I’m performing optimally.
To be honest though, its a few too many games we should have won. I think the above may account for many games…but it can’t account for all of those which you listed – I’m at a loss..point taken.
If I may RBB…
Yes, these guys care… in the sense that they need to make a living and earn a paycheque. They all have families and people to support. Part of this job is also selling hope to the fans aka promoting the business, so they do, in essence, “show” they care. The difference in the caring is how much do they care about actually winning, and for that matter winning a title. I’m not sure how many actually care about the losses. There have been plenty of guys in the L, that like I said, just wanted to earn a check. Say… the Kandiman, or say.. a Larry Hughes. You demand a trade from LeBron? Really? Where do you have a bigger chance of wining a title? In NY or CLV?
Mental toughness? Hmmm… we can all agree that most of these guys have a relative amount of talent that has gotten them to where they are, no? How many times do you hear “Oh, if he just used his talent to the max or properly.” So, I doubt it was their mental fortitude that got them here, as opposed to, like I said, their talent. And some hard work I suppose. But none of that means they are mentally tough, when the situation (like the ones PhDSteve mentioned) DEMANDS it. What particular game do you recall, this bunch, buckled down and stood up to the pressure of either NOT blowing a lead (countless times in a q or half or 4th they HAVE) or RALLIED back to win after digging a hole. If there a few, what would it tell us about mentioning only a FEW games? Where we could also argue the other team simply didn’t execute or had such a lead they lost interest? I just don’t recall many “must have” bucket for bucket situations.
Well said.
There’s also a chemistry element. I’d say every member of the Raptors, with the possible exception of Marion, is a good enough guy that he’s self-motivated but as a group, these guys have not found a way to suck it up and play through problems. Every loss to Detroit for the past 2 years has shown how to beat the current Raps: hit them hard defensively and they’ll come undone. They’ll make one push to get back into the game, repel that and the game is yours.
So Colangelo has to get his shit together, figure out a plan to remake this team that improves both talent and chemistry, get a short list of coaches and then follow through. Messina should probably be on that short list and so should some of the guys Steve mentions as well as an assistant or 2. The thing with the retreads is have they learned from their first (or 8th) go round? That’s what separates the Larry Browns from the Flip Saunders.
Sam, you should/may know I’ve been beating the chemistry drum since December. And I got blasted with “you are not in the lockeroom, how the F do you know?” So, I’m hearing ya on that.. but that again goes back to the mental aspect:
1. plenty of teams with success have had guys that couldn’t stand each other, but on the court… you do your job. This is not a rock band, it’s a team. I’m not asking them to knit sweaters together, just play ball.
2. Colangelo has a bit of history of putting together players that hate each other, hate the coach or hate someone.
I still think that the mental aspect is not as bad as you think it is. To be the TOP of any profession you must have mental toughness and determination. Be it a lawyer, baker, plumber, chef, athlete. It takes many, many, many hours to refine your art or profession (in players case weight rooms, drills, practices, video’s, training camps, other camps, seminars, etc..just for a long-shot chance to make it to the show). Talent will only get you so far.
Its like a 3 stage argument:
1) To be the top of any profession you must be mentally tough and willing to work hard/care.
2) Toronto raptor players are the top of their profession (NBA atheletes)
3) Therefore Toronto Raptor players are mentally tough.
Chemistry on-the-court and off-the-court are two different types of things..and your post addresses off-court chemistry…which history has shown isn’t as pertinent; its the on-court chemistry which matters most.
Hmmm.. think I’m using a fine comb here.
OK, agreed, they have to display a certain level of mental toughness to make it to the NBA. Does that mean they have the mental toughness to succeed at this level? Not based on how they have played during their careers, IMO. Parker, Jose and Bosh have all failed in situations that require the highest level of that mental toughness.
Of course part of this is your definition of success. Keeping their job, making the playoffs, winning a playoff round, winning it all.
Let’s not forget some of these guys are brought into the NBA not because people believe they can win (it all). They are model citizens that will promote the product well and sell tickets. This roster is filled with players that moms and grandmas love and would want their daughters to marry.
Just to be clear, the chemistry problem I’m talking about is on the court. I don’t care very much about Bosh’s (or any other player’s) personal issues. So, yeah these guys are tougher than most when it comes to getting into the league but haven’t figured things out (on court) as a group. It happens a lot in pro sports. Good (or at least not bad) on paper, bad in reality is a pretty common problem with all kinds of teams. The Raptors have that problem in spades.
maybe they just don’t care about each other…
I agree with you about the draft 100%, and I agree that they don’t care. No matter what people say about them making millions of dollars to do a job it’s still hard to come with the same intensity every night as a competing team when you are on a bad team. And I agree that it starts at the top. But by “at the top” I mean lack of leadership. It’s a problem when your “leader” is 24 years old. Sure Bosh thinks he’s a leader but he’s not, or at least he’s not a good one, yet. I think he’ll be a great leader when he’s older but come on, there ain’t many 24 year old people that can lead a group of men successfully in any environment. At 24 you are not a man yet, you don’t know who you are or how to act yet. You might THINK you do but you don’t, and certainly not enough to LEAD a group of men. At best you know HOW you want to be but are not yet able to effectively pull it off every day. Especially not if you’ve been fawned over for the last 10 years with everyone telling you how great you are. Guys like LeBron and Wade do well simply because they are THAT good. But if you watch and listen to them you’d hardly call them mature. Kobe was a complete knob when he was younger. Vince couldn’t handle it. The list goes on. It’s not Bosh’s fault. He WANTS to be a great leader but he’s just not had the experience yet. He needs to go through some adversity. If you are going to ride a young star then there has to be vocal veteran leadership mixed in. Parker is not that guy. O’Neal and Marion COULD have been that guy but they aren’t. So the fault lies with management for not providing that veteran leadership here.
Now I would not necessarily be opposed to trading Bosh if the offer is juicy enough, but I’d be wary of letting him go and having him blossom into a great leader on another team, effectively learning his “life-lessons” at the Raptors expense for the benefit of another team (like all my ex-girlfiends…haha). Conversly, I highly doubt that we would regret keeping Bosh (if possible). I happen to believe that he and Bargs and Calderon will figure it out as they mature. They are still very young guys. And really, anyone under 25 doesn’t know shit these days, they just think they do ;-)
Oh…and I also agree about the coaching and the lack of toughness. I think a little more “blue collar” mentality is needed and the people of Canada appreciate those kind of players most in my opinion, as shown by the obvious like for Pops’ effort.
I think you are right about Bosh- being young and still having the ability to turn into a great leader somewhere else- and I too would hate to see that happen somewhere else. But on the flip side, he really has failed to step into that role on many occasions here (ie/ vs NJ or ORL in the last two playoff years- and ofcourse in taking control of this team after Sam got fired)and so, while I’d like to be able to build around him, I would be open to dealing him if I could get a starter, a young talent, a pick and force the other team to take back Kapono’s contract.
Yup. I don’t disagree. If he wants to be an “MVP” he’s got to turn the corner. I think he’s trying to but just hasn’t figured it out yet. This girlfriend/baby business is telling. If it’s true then it’s a perfect example of how he’s yet to act like a man. I do believe he’ll figure it out though. Hopefully he has some good male influence in his personal life…someone that will really bust his chops without humiliating him. Even Michael Jordan had a bunch of problems when he was young in his career and didn’t figure out how to win until his late 20’s / early 30’s. We are in such an instant gratification society now that we forget that championships used to be made by building from young talent over several years then adding the right filling ingredients when the time was right. Now everyone just wants to find a Lebron then try to march to a title in 3 years or less. Not gonna happen….and hasn’t even happened for Lebron.
Dude, here’s a difference…Jordan was built to dominate the ball by dribbling and driving it as an SG and PG when he had no problems and personal problems. Bosh is a pure front court player who is not supposed to dominate the ball by dribbling it and driving. I agree with you though about the male influence, because we got no coaches and not a single player that can substitute for that. For Portland, they got noooo players that are “old” and can teach the young players, but NATE MCMILLIAN was a former player and is the RIGHT guy who provides that veteran leadership + he is a high quality coach in the making + the good nature, high talent, and hard working demeanor of Roy, Aldridge, Outlaw, Vanilla Gorilla, Oden, Bayless, Rudy F. and Batum.
Oh ya I know. Of course I wasn’t comparing Bosh to Jordan directly. I’m just saying even the best player of all time had to find his way (greatest cluch player, deadliest assasin, hardest worker, great leader, etc).
And ya, I 100% agree with your thoughts on McMillan. He was nails as a player and is a great coach for younger players.
I think some of you guys are so used to ripping Steve that you’re missing the finer points in this article. I happen to agree with a lot of what he’s saying as per who to draft, the future coach and the missing toughness element. The “quitter” label is a bit harsh but the record and the effort in the games so far is the supporting evidence. There’s not NBA title talent here but amongst Bosh, Calderon, Marion and Bargnani there should be enough for at least a .500 record and they haven’t even come close. I think the body language and passiveness also suggests this.
The style element is key. We need to decide on a team identity and come up with players/coaches who support that. Right now I couldn’t tell you what our strong points are, I like to point to the 06-07 team as one where we knew exactly what kind of ball we wanted to play and played it to a reasonable degree of success (playoffs notwithstanding).
I for one wouldn’t mind BC at least taking a look at Steve’s plan.
As discussed in yesterday’s “rap” section, we shouldn’t be opposed to trading Bosh and must have open lines of communication with teams about him. You never know what you might find.
thanks brother, the cheques in the mail.
…gimme a break.nothing steve mentions is groundbreaking,its weak crap.bc dont need steves help..lol.he shits on messina but wants a retread?pick a system?NO SHIT.get rid of players that dont fit?DUH REALLY!ITS SO EASY!…get rid of 1 of these players,NO SHIT!their contracts are up…..arse your defending this tools lame crap cuz hes a fellow employee and you probably hired him…..for real,he says nothing….lol.aggresively go after rfa’s?WITH WHAT FUCKING MONEY?
Andiamo, I totally agree, most of this is pretty simple, straigh forward stuff. Im not saying anything new or unknow. However, these ideas still need to be voiced and acted on.
Everyone knew last summer that BC needed a back up pg and more strenght on the wing- and yet somehow neither of those areas got addressed.
As for where the money will come from, here are a few ideas:
the money will come from:
letting Matrix walk -$14 million
letting AP walk- $4.5 million
letting Joey Graham walk- $2 million
buying out Banks- approx- $1 miillion
forcing a team to take Kaponos contract in any Bosh or Bargs deal: 6 million
etc.
http://www.hooplife.ca/raptorshq/viewHQArticle.php?id=639
HEY STEVE…..i love the way you tally up all that money…..were lucky to have 8 mill to spend 4 next season and thats if we renounce the rights to all our free agents….BUT ACCORDING TO YOU WE’LL HAVE TONS OF CASH.LOL.
Let those guys walk, fine…but the majority of the guys you mention above would take a big chunk of your available cap. We would find ourselves in the same situation we did this year: a couple of porn stars surrounded by 8-10 fluffers.
- Nobody’s an employee here, we’re unpaid and poor.
- Marion’s coming off the books, that should be enough to go after two decent free agents. If you can shed Kapono or Banks’ contract in a Bosh trade, even better.
- Why do you want Messina? Haven’t you had enough of rookie coaches?
Complaining about rookie coaches is what fans with a lack of knowledge do when they’re afraid of uncertainty. I want a good coach, period. That means Colangelo has to really evaluate the talent, use his superior scouting information, and make the right judgement call. There have been rookie coaches who have performed very well and there have been established veteran coaches who have failed miserably. There’s no obvious pattern when it comes to a coaching hire. It all boils down to knowledge and understanding that the large majority of fans simply do not possess. I personally know very little of Ettore Messina. But I’m not going to be so presumptious as to conclude that he couldn’t be the right coach for this team. I’d like my opinion on someone to be based on more than uninformed split-second reactions (European? ugh. Non-NBA? ugh).
messina is universally regarded as the best coach not in the nba.in europe hes a living legend.popovich loves the guy,the cavs coach loves him and goes to his clinics.his clinics here in north america are packed and sold out to capacity….i dont get it?why would i want an nba retread whos sitting at home after being fired or an assistant plucked off an nba roster?….every coach i would want is under contract….so why not messina?hes the BCA.
So, out of curiosity – Can you name rookie coaches that have performed very well? What percentage of rookie coaches actually go on to be successful? And out of those how many had a REAL roster, as opposed to one filled with YMCA level talent?
The point is simply, I believe, that a rookie coach has a much larger chance of not making the team successful, as he also has to do on the job training, albeit some. And we have clearly tried the rookie coach approach with mild if not poor success.
Some people have been very patient with the Raptors and their half baked approach to everything… is in not time do demand some moves with a higher probability of success?
I didn’t complain about Walker, Butch, KO or Mitchell who were all rookie head coaches. Just saying that the franchise might need to switch its philosophy of hiring inexperienced NBA coaches. Don’t want another guy learning the NBA trade while using my favorite team as guinea pigs.
Off the top of my head, Pat Riley has done an excellent job of finding rookie head coaches who have bright futures but can really get the job done in the short-term (Stan Van Gundy, Erik Spoelstra).
My point is that we don’t have the luxury of simply ruling out an entire segment of coaches because we’ve been burned by bad hirings in the past. I personally don’t even believe KO or Mitchell failed because of their inability to transition from assistant coach to head coach. They simply never were head coaching material in the first place and it was a serious error in judgment by our GM to have though that they were. Iavaroni strikes me as a case more in line with what people have in mind. He had an excellent pedigree and every reason to succeed, but failed in Memphis because he was unable to cope with the extra challenges of being a head coach.
SVG? The one with Shaq and Dwade? Erik? Who has been working under Slik Riles since he was 12 and got a healthy/determined Wade?
Also, are we comparing Pat (player in the L, won rings in the NBA as player and coach, top 10 coach of all time, HOFer) to 2 time car salesmen of they year BC? DO I laugh or cry?
And you prove my point about coping with the challenge. There is 0 reason to believe ANY rookie coach will do well.
Colangelo was able to pick out D’Antoni as a rookie head coach, and that worked quite well too. I didn’t intend to equate him with Riley, but I certainly think he’s capable of finding a rookie head coach that would suit this team.
Of course, my point was not to argue that we necessarily have to go after a rookie coach. I just want to suggest that we shouldn’t shut ourselves off from that possibility, especially since coaching success is so dependant upon context. Maybe this team needs someone respected and experienced to create a winning culture, and if its the case I’m all for going after someone more established. But I certainly don’t believe coaching experience must = success. Especially since we were stuck with Lenny Wilkins a few years back, because of that line of reasoning.
Flux, a rookie coach with a young team is a fairly proven recipe. With the right coach (and yes, personnel moves by the GM) the team grows up with its coach – e.g. Portland. Hiring for success next year without regard for what, at its core, is still a pretty young team will just mean everyone is screaming about blowing it all up in 2 years. Messina’s got some persuasive fans (like Pops). If he and BC work well together that’s probably the best move. But like Chutney says, don’t rule anyone out off the bat. Good coaches come from everywhere. So do bad.
Sam, that’s what I’m saying, no? However, Nate is a bad example, as he coached the Sonics prior to the Blazers.
Arse,
Whatever the HELL Bosh’s value is, BCo we better not pull a flippin’ Babcock move and cripple our cap with crap and low amount of garbage 1st rnd picks. If Colangelo is a “con-man”, he better be the con-man against other GMs and not his own fans.
Would you agree that we should of traded Bosh to Cleveland for Wally’s expiring contract? Hmmmm…maybe not because Verajao will outplay Bosh anyways …
Hey Steve, two questions:
(1) How much cap space do you think the Raptors have this summer?
(2) You mentioned a lot of the top free agents on the market this summer. Who would be your favourites? Perhaps your three favourite targets?
Hey Dave,
as you know, Im not a capologist, and there are two other issues at play here:
1)is that no one knows what the cap for 2009 or 2010 is going to be but it is going DOWN.
and
2) is whether you decide to move Bosh or not. If you were to move Bosh to a team with cap space, then you wouldnt need to take back equal salary. Likewise, forcing a team to take back the Kapono contract to make the deal work would save you roughly 6 million.
Either way, my rough calculations are that the Raptors could be at about $33 million committed to team salary (so roughly 20-25 mil under) if they follow the above suggestions with the possibility of being as far under as $30-40mil if they move Bosh.
As for free agents, it would depend on the direction the GM chose to move in.
Personally, IMHO, Id look to move Bargnani, draft a point guard high in the draft, buy a pick later in the 1st round to draft a 2 guard, and then look to sign some guys- but before you can speculate on who to sign, first you’d have to pick a direction, a coach, and a go-to-guy.
I agree about your comments that Triano, Ivaroni and the Euro Coach are all wrong answers for the coach of this team. I have long been saying my pick would be Eddie Jordan personally.
Do you think Eddie Jordan can mesh well with Jose and Roko?
Will he not lose hair when he doesn’t have to face Gilbert’s antics anymore?
the cap is complicated and allot of what we can do is tied to our own free agents and the mid level exception wed garner if resigning them….its easy to say buy banks out or dump kapono but at 4 mill and 6 mill it aint easy.a coach can implement whatever game plan he wants but getting the players is far from as easy as you make it seem.the coach has to maximize what he has and work around strengths.
heres another good article outlining our cap situation.
http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/update-raptors-2010-cap-situation/
Well said.
Andiamo, I saw this picture and thought of you..LOL!!
http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mateen-jam-jersey-1.jpg
For a detail of CBA to see how exemptons can work for cap related inquiries, I have found this site helpful. It can get complicated which is why it depends on what the actual cap is next year, as well as who is re-signed, rescinded, etc.. to know which ememptions are available.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
flux and all rookie head coach haters….werent phil jackson,popovich and sloan once rookie head coaches?…cmon man,i dont want no damn jvg,flip mullet saunders or no damn fratello or jordan.none of those dudes have the aura of a sloan or pop or messina……..if we get messina its instant coaching credibility from around the entire l/the planet and its current coaching fraternity.
AND ON A SIDE NOTE.MAURY IS ON….poor bosh.i bet he wishes he wasnt the daddy.
Yeah, tough job being a rookie coach with Jordan and Pippen, Duncan and The Admiral, Malone and Stockton. How many HOFs on our team? Ok, yeah, thanks.
your argument is weak. You want the Raptors to hire an experienced coach, but then you say that they are successful because they were blessed with good players.
The raptors dont have good players (HOF), therefore, using your logic, any coach would fail here. Why then bother hiring an experienced one?
umm..
a) raptors have decent players, not great ones
b) experienced coaches worth their salt would,IMO, won’t bother with this roster
c) raptors are screwed
the fact I would like them to get an experienced one, doesn’t change anything.
Soooo… what exactly are you trying to say?
Nothing changes the fact all 3 of those had HOFers at their disposal and that they are all top 50 players of all time.
Also, failure is a broad definition. Success to me is a championship, this roster can’t win one. If making the playoffs and getting bounced is what you are after, does it matter who we hire?
Anything else?
phd & Arsenalist,
——————————-
There’s not NBA title talent here but amongst Bosh, Calderon, Marion and Bargnani there should be enough for at least a .500 record and they haven’t even come close. I think the body language and passiveness also suggests this. – by Arsenalist
——————————-
#1. IMO, none of Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani, Parker, Graham, Humphries and Moon have “quit” on the Raptors, at any time this season.
The NBA is a league which is driven by the talent level of the players on a team’s roster.
In the Raptors situation:
Bosh is solid.
Calderon is solid, albeit with limitations defensively.
Bargnani is not solid, despite his scoring exploits.
Marion is not solid, despite the numbers he put up in Phoenix.
#2. Many NBA observers do not understand nor value properly the contribution that each of the 15 players make to the overall productivity level of a solid team.
When you assert that the Celtics had no bench to speak-of either last season or this one, early on, that’s an opinion which de-values the abilities of:
2007-2008 – James Posey, Eddie House, Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Brian Scalabrine, Scott Pollard, Tony Allen and Gabe Pruitt
2008-2009 – Eddie House, Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Brian Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Gabe Pruitt, Bill Walker, JR. Giddens
If you compare those two groups to the bench the Raptors’ started this season with:
Solomon, Ukic, Kapono, Graham or Moon, Humphries, Bargnani, Adams and Jawai.
it’s not even close.
In fact … when you compare this year’s Raptors’ bench with the teams from the last two seasons:
2006-2007 – *Calderon*, *Martin*, Dixon, Graham, Garbajosa or *Nesterovic*, Humphries, *Bargnani*
2007-2008 – *Calderon*, *Martin*, *Delfino*, Kapono, Graham, Brezec, Humphries, *Bargnani*, Garbajosa and Baston
it is easy to see where the problems have arisen this season.
When a team doesn’t have enough NBA talent on it’s player roster that is the responsibility of its General Manager.
#3. Once a team has the right mix of NBA level talent … then, coaching comes into play.
When a team doesn’t have the right coach to create an environment which is conducive to winning, matched-up with its player personnel … that is the responsibility of its General Manager.
rupaul is overrated.
caldereta is overrated.
everyone knows marion is no lebron james. he is more of a defensive player, and needs a point guard like steve nash to help his offense.
rupaul doesnt show that he quits on the raptors because his leaving them in 2010. he’s just playing, waiting for 2010 to come and leave TO. then when he plays against us, we would boo him and chant let’s go raptors, CB sucks.
I agree with J. Khandor you are dead wrong once again. Christine Botch and Caldereta are our two biggest problems. Neither has the heart or talent to get us anywhere, and their love in for only each other has cost this team many wins. They believe they are stars, and look past guys with more talent than either to pad their stats looking for that MVP or all-star nod. These guys should go first, and if you can’t move both Botch lobster boy has to go, and then a coach like Messina needs to look at Calderetta and tell him that if ever again looks off an open shooter like Bargnani for a shitty pass into a double teamed guy he’s benched.
We do not need another fired coach, we need a coach with skills, talent, plays, a system, and someone that demands respect from overpaid babies where your biggest overpaid baby is never going to be close to the MVP he thinks he is. The only place he’s an MVP is at the bank, because he’s overpaid and won’t even spare a little of his unearned cash to pay for his baby and the chick he knocked up. He’s a deadbeat dad, and player and we should get his ass out of this town.
Anyone think Ben Gordon would be a good fit for the raps next year?
Calderon
Gordon
Marion
Bosh
Bargnani
If possible, this line-up would definitely be playoff material.
I’m not sure you blow up the team after one bad season. Winners have patience.
That is a starting five that can run & gun.
I’d like to see that but not sure we can afford it. Can’t believe Gordon turned down 10mil/yr from Chicago.
BUT he’s horrible on D, which of course is something we are lacking.
ben gordon is overrated. you’d have him guard the likes of kobe, wade, ray allen, etc.??? i’d rather like him a sixth man, just like his early years. that’s his role,; like a barbosa, terry, nate robinson.
Calderon/Ukic/Banks
Gordon/Gerald Henderson/Kapono
Ariza/Joey Graham
Bosh/Hump/Pops
Bargs/Rasho/Jawai
Looks better.
Good call. Ariza can do everything that Marion can do but he’s probably cheaper and definitely younger. And we don’t have to see that ugly “jump-shot” ever again.
This is what B.C should do if he wants to keep bosh…
we can run and gun when ukic is playing,(drive and dish)he’s got the drive part down just needs to learn to dish if he can’t take it to the hole. Half court when caldy is playing. kapono can come into the game ONLY for 3s. Just gotta get a slashing 2 who can play D would be a compliment when gordon is having off scoring nights. theres more balance/depth in this group. we should really only have one energy guy but i like pops because he’s popsicle. Ariza is the better option, he played with LA so he knows what it takes to win. Joey G, Has shown us he can be a solid bench player. With the cap we have after letting AP and Marion Walk. It should be enough to sign Joey,Ariza,Gordon,Rasho. I just hope Gordon doesn’t expect he can earn more than $10mil in these economic times.
Realistically, we can make it back into the playoffs next year with a couple of FA signings and the right utilization of our draft pick.
We will also need a new coach. Jay T. he’s been great because he’s canadian but i don’t want to lose anymore. Get an experienced Coach plz and ty. If we can assembled this rooster or something similar. The coach will come because we have the pieces.
Colangelo is not going to be fired any time soon by MLSE.
Colangelo has created this mess, by making a series of ill-advised personnel moves over a 3 year priod.
It’s Colangelo who will now need to FIX IT.
IMO, if he tries to go too far, too fast … again … he will not advance the cause for the Raptors, in the grand scheme of things.
He lucked out in the 2006 NBA Draft, moving up to the No. 1 [overall] pick … but, didn’t know how to handle that situation properly and, as a result, has wasted the last 2 seasons waiting for a good but not great player like Bargnani to develop as a side-kick to Bosh.
It is now 3 years in and that is unlikely to happen.
The cold, harsh reality is that the window of opportunity which presented itself in the summer of 2006 IS GONE … but the opportunity to continue building around solid players like Bosh & Calderon has not, if Mr. Colangelo is able to recognize and then address his mistake[s].
Retaining Mitchell after the 2005-2006 season was a mistake.
Signing Kapono was a mistake.
Keeping Kapono was a mistake.
Signing Solomon was a mistake.
Signing Adams was a mistake.
Acquiring O’Neal was a mistake.
Firing Mitchell in early December was a mistake.
Acquiring Marion and Banks was a mistake.
There are plenty more to go with those.
Hopefully he begins to show better judgment as he tries to move forward from here.
You are a broken record.
WEAK POST.
LORD KHANDOR HAS SPOKEN!….BOSH AND JOSE ARE SOLID!MARION AND BARGS ARE NOT!COLANGELO HAS FAILED REPEATEDLY!!!!!!!!!!!……oh the pandemonium….khandor,who the fuck do you think you are?seriously?…get a life bitch….this faggot never speaks of constructive criticism yet he jacks off repeatedly in here with reckless abandon daily over moves that havent worked .although its common knowledge they havent but fuckface goes on like hes the only one who sees this and only he,LORD KHANDOR, “KNEW THEY WOULDNT”….thx lord khandor u pretentious pompous know it all prick for gracing us with your stink of shit that repels the masses….congrats.
khandor says: “Hopefully he[BC] begins to show better judgment as he tries to move forward from here.”
After that extensive critique, could you put yourself in the shoes of the Raptor’s GM and tell us exactly what has to be done to “move forward from here”… in equivalent detail of course ..???!!!
Khan letting you write this stuff IS a MISTAKE. Who is better out the draft than Bargs, other than a guard like ROY who you cannot compare because he has the ball in his hands all the time, where Bargs never gets a pass other than in a pinch when Christine or Calderetta are too afraid to shoot? Also Roy had the confidence of his team and coach from the beginning and got to play regularly learning from his mistakes while doing so, while Bargs had to come off the bench with the worst second unit in the league with players who would not and still don’t pass to him when he’s open, for a coach who quite possibly was the worst in the league, and let Christine run this team into the ground.
Are you telling me that the crappy Raptors could not afford to have started and styed the course with Bargs to develop him, rather than changing his role and minutes every game while the Raps were on their way to the worst team in the league. Other teams play the players they believe in to let them learn, ( Roy, Durant, Aldridge, Tyrus Thomas, etc..) especially when they are on crappy teams.
Knador I hope you leave the Raptor fanbase when they trade your love Rupaul and go with him. Did you have his baby too?
Did I miss something? Why did he mention Mitchell as coach of the Timberwolves?
Also, why did he say that this team would never win with Jay Triano, didn’t we win just a couple days ago? Again maybe I’m missing something here.
http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_11964922?nclick_check=1
maybe you missed that.
Triano vs any playoff coach in the East = FAIL. No one cares, wait, no, I don’t care about the regular season.
I can’t say I’m surprised that there’s been *speculation* that Mitchell might coach his former team again..
Marc,
Putting up a 5-Man line-up like that for the Raptors next season is irrelevant … unless you’re going to compare the quality of that group to the other starting units in the EC:
BOS – Rondo, Allen-R, Pierce, Garnett & Perkins
CLE – Williams, West, James, Varejao & Ilgaukas
ORL – Alston, Pietrus, Lewis, Turkoglu & Howard
ATL – Bibby, Johnson, Williams, Smith & Horford
MIA – Chalmers, Wade, Moon, Haslem & O’Neal
PHI – Miller, Green, Iguodala, Thornton & Dalembert
DET – Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, McDyess & Wallace
CHI – Rose, Player X, Salmons, Thomas-Ty, Noah
——————————————-
MIL – Sessions, Jefferson, Villanueva, Mbah A Moute, Bogut [Redd?]
CHA – Augustin, Bell, Wallace-G, Diaw & Okafor
NJN – Harris, Carter, Simmons, Anderson & Lopez [CDR?]
NYK – Duhon, Hughes, Chandler, Harrington & Lee [Robinson?]
IND – Ford, Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Hibbert [Jack, Foster, Nesterovic?]
TOR – Calderon, Gordon, Marion, Bosh & Bargnani
WAS – Arenas, Young, Butler, Jamison & Haywood
If you do that … then, what you should see is that the Raptors’ 5-Man Unit is not substantially better than a bunch of the other teams, and just how imortant the quality of each team’s bench will be during the 2009-2010 season.
Philadelphia has this guy named Elton Brand, and I’m pretty sure he plays PF for them.
thornthon plays for the los angeles slippers, not in philly.
Actually, I saw a 5-man unit that could at the very least make it to the playoffs in the east. Bench notwithstanding.
I don’t know where you get these crazy lists from. For all you know Washington could be in 1st place next year with a healthy Arenas and Haywood. Putting Toronto at 2nd to bottom of that list is just plain idiotic. While we may not be in the same league as Boston, Cleveland or Orlando, the addition of an excellent scorer at the 2 spot will definitely put us in the same league as Atlanta, Miami, Philadelphia, Detriot and Chicago.
Player X for ROY!
Picking up Gordon would put the focus on Offense (which is our strength with B&B in the front court) and would give this team a much needed identity. I hate to say the Phoenix of the East because that is an overused and meaningless statement, but we would have something similar.
At the very least it would be much more fun to watch, and that’s all I really care about.
Chutney,
——————————–
Iavaroni strikes me as a case more in line with what people have in mind. He had an excellent pedigree and every reason to succeed, but failed in Memphis because he was unable to cope with the extra challenges of being a head coach. – by chutney
——————————–
IMO, the primary reason Marc Iavaroni failed in Memphis was because Chris Wallace/GM did a poor job of amassing the right mix of NBA talent on the Grizzlies roster, realtive to the competition in the Western Conference.
Could be the case. I’ll admit that I don’t know enough about that situation as I would like (considering I viewed him as a intriguing candidate before the season began). But some Memphis fans I know have argued that Iavaroni had a tough time taking the knowledge from the various head coaches he worked under and settling with a consistent philosophy for the entire season (and the lack of consistency alienated his players).
Do you believe Iavaroni’s still a coach worth looking at?
J,
Thanks for catching that error on my part. Yes, substitute Thaddeus Young for Al Thornton. Mix up those two every once in a while, as they’ve been linked to one another since arriving in the league together last season.
When the76ers have been at their best over the last 2 seasons, it’s been with their line-up that has Thad Young as an under-sized #4/PF. : )
Marc,
“Fun to watch” isn’t a concern I have. My concern has to do with Winning games, and eventually a NBA Title.
I’d settle for a team that competes. No point in getting greedy.
The raps failed this year because of high expectations. They thought they were in from the get go and played without the same passion they had the last two seasons.
I’d rather be the underdog anyday
Marc,
The “crazy list” in question here … reflects the current Eastern Conference Standings [off the top of my head].
Here you go, if you want something which is exact.
What exactly does this season have to do with next season?
Sam,
Portland is a bad example to choose. Nate McMillan was anything but a rookie coach for the Blazers.
Right. My mistake. See how easy that is?
McMillan was a rookie coach for the Sonics though, and he led them to one helluva overachieving season.
Guys, our problems are solved:
http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/douby_signing_032409.html
Is this like the Luke Jackson signing? Then we going to give him a couple of million over the next to years and he’ll be gone by June? Right on! Are we still paying Jackson, or what?
Think its due to Banks’ surgery and need for a warm body (as per D.Smith).
Hallelujah!
This signing makes me want to smoke one.
Pointless!
A one dimensional jump shooting player with a corny name and a Uni-brow.
GO UNI-BROW!
http://x1d.xanga.com/b258352063008102714213/z72466665.jpg
chutney,
re: Iavaroni
I would not choose to go in that direction, if I was running the Raptors.
khandor says: Mar 24, 2009 at 12:53 pm
“re: Iavaroni I would not choose to go in that direction, if I was running the Raptors.”
That’s a somewhat cryptic comment … so if you could expand on it and tell us which direction you would go if you were “running the Raptors” ..???
Pretty good intelligent discusion today folks…with a noticeable relative lack of swearing. Good job ;-)
Good call Rye.
I’m going with the conspiracy theory on the “dead beat dad”
Perfect timing to bring this out right before seasons’ end. Send Bosh’s name through the mud, and the masses will think “good riddance” when BC ships him out this summer.
This happened in November, and it surfaces NOW? 12 games before the end of the season?? hmmmmm….
Marc,
This season’s EC standings are connected with next season, as a simple starting point.
Take Gordon off the Bulls.
Put Gordon in the Raptors’ line-up.
Give Chicago Player X, as a replacement for Gordon.
Then compare the 30 line-ups against one another, as is.
Forget about the draft. Forget about trades, Forget about Free Agency.
If you think the Raptors’ 5-Man Unit you suggessted, in isolation, is one which can prove itself next year as superior to at least 7 of the other teams in the EC then, IMO, you might have a leg to stand on when suggesting that the addition of BG could help transform the Raptors into a playoff-bound team next season.
Unfortunately, I think your appreciation of that 5-Man Unit for the Raptors might be leg-less.
“Take Gordon off the Bulls.
Put Gordon in the Raptors’ line-up.
Give Chicago Player X, as a replacement for Gordon.
Then compare the 30 line-ups against one another, as is”
Do that, and the raps are in the playoffs next year. I’d put money on it.
One important factor is that all of the current Raptors are probably pretty sick of losing by now, and would not take the playoffs for granted next year.
The Raptors did not fail this season on account of high expectations.
The Raptors failed this season because Bryan Colangelo screwed up, big time.
Now he NEEDS to fix it, gradually.
There is a bevy of reasons why the raps failed this season, Colangelo being just one of them. However, as GM, he has to take ultimate responsibility because he put the team together.
I still feel like if the raps were an underdog at the beginning of the season they would have played with a helluva lot more passion and intensity.
That passion & intensity could have transformed an awful season into a decent one.
khandor says: Mar 24, 2009 at 2:06 pm
The Raptors did not fail this season on account of high expectations.
The Raptors failed this season because Bryan Colangelo screwed up, big time.
Now he NEEDS to fix it, gradually.
…………..
How did BC “screw up big time” and thus failed this season?
In your opinion, how should he “fix it, gradually” … like how gradually..???
I would like to know what camp put that info out on Bosh…the Knicks,Bulls!!!!
..and how about Wade’s name being dragged through the mud by his wife??? The number of NBA players with shit going on in court re paternity and god knows what else is endless…..
The over protection of Bosh is ridiculous…
D Wade has shown what a real leader and MVP quality type player does under adversity.
Fucking limp-dick twats….
I’d also bet my life that Bosh is fucking high for most of his shitty YouTube videos (his is “good” friends with J Howard and S Williams…nudge nudge) and that was enough to get Phelps in a world of trouble….
Who gives a shit if this complacent weakling is forced to face reality because of his stupid choices…at least those cunts on Raptors TV won’t be able to give constant blowjobs anymore…
im not cb4’s biggest fan…but i think the column on him being a “dead beat” was a little over the top. all of the facts arent out yet and it hasnt gone to court yet…and the man is a professional…he should be able to separate his work and home life.
nonetheless..a pretty shocking story.
No surprise that its a Feschuck story. Cases like these (paternity suits, sexual assault cases, etc.) require a lot of patience and discretion from outside observers, simply because there are always so many sides and it takes a while to figure out who’s telling the truth. Of course, Feschuck proceeded to use his column for every sort of speculation and presumptious reasoning he could think of. The guy is just a pisspoor journalist, all-around.
BryCo is definitely a competitor and will not sit and watch us mail it in. With that said, I think we have to reevaluate a lot of things with respect to where Bosh will be in a year from now and who can fill his void? This is not going to happen overnight. Bottom line… good teams draft well. Especially with the economy in the state that it is we need to invest in advanced scouting.
You can bet that there will be a lot of eyeballs on this year’s Nike Hoop Summit. Top US high school seniors vs the Top high school seniors from the rest of the world. Bargnani played in it before he got drafted.
Yahoo Sports is doing a live webcast of the game on April 11th.
Good response from Bosh: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/607449
Marc,
1. For your sake, I hope the Raptors don’t acquire Ben Gordon … because I think you might then be out some $$$ come this time next spring.
2. Whether or not a group of players is sick and tired of losing has nothing to do with their ability to make the playoffs. The NBA is a talent-driven league and the teams with the most talent … mixed together properly and well-coached … consistently finish at the top of the standings.
From my perspective, the 2008-2009 Toronto Raptors that set sail in Oct/Nov:
Had “enough” NBA talent to succeed ONLY if they were [i] managed and [ii] coached in a Top Notch way.
Unfortunately, however, they have not been managed and coached in a Top Notch way this season and, due to an overall deficiency in the quality of players on their roster, have performed at the level which now sees them as the 14th place team in a 15-team conference.
Given up? No, I don’t think so. No one has been on the same page all season. Some games Bosh and Bargnani are scoring 50% plus of the Raptors points. Other games, they were silent and Parker came up with a big game. Calderon has played poorly all season. I am going to focus on Bosh and Bargnani in this Rap, because I am not sold on them as a unit, but I am not sold on them needing to be broken apart.
Biggest problem with the two – Defensive Chemistry.
No, I think that the problem is chemistry on this roster. I am not totally sold on Bosh and Bargnani playing together. Defensively they miss their assignments, get lose their men through a series of screens, and then are lost when it comes time to rebound. Bargnani is natural #4, and, IMO, needs a big body at the #5 to grab the boards. Put Bargnani on the Magic, and he and Dwight would massacre. Bosh, although Khandor believes is a #5, is not the rebounding and solid presence in the middle needed to clean up on the glass and intimidate opponents. This means that if we slot Marion at the #4 and Bosh at the #5, we need to be an offensively minded team. The closest comparison I can think of is the tandem of Gasol and Odom on the Lakers. However, Marion is not Odom – Odom is taller, can block shots, and capable of a 20 and 15 game on any given night.
But, I think Bosh and Bargnani can work, IMO if we get a defensively minded coach that can teach team defence to make up for any individual deficiencies. Bargnani has proven himself to be a capable defender around the net, but has trouble with screens and rotations. Bosh is tired of being banged around by bigger men, and appreciated having JO on the team to take that assignment – Bargnani can take this on, if he gets a coach that is dedicated to teaching this. I think he has the skills. Also, I think that JO taught Bargnani how to bang with big men. I do not think JO’s attitude or play was the problem with this team – he did not give up, but at the same time he was not willing to strain his knee for a team that was going nowhere.
If we get a defensive scheme worked out, I think Bargnani and Bosh can work together. If we intend to run and gun and forget about defence, I think that we should trade Bosh – run and gun is not his strength. I am partial to the half-court game, myself. We have the talent, and ball handling capability on this team to run half-court offences. If we get a defensive scheme worked out, and keep Calderon, Bosh and Bargnani, and pick up Joe Johnson in 2010, I think our half-court offense will be quite potent, in the style of the Utah Jazz.
Offensively, Bosh and Bargnani:
Offensively, I think that Bosh and Bargnani can work extremely well in the half-court on offence, if Bargnani and Bosh learn a spin around post move like Boozer – see Sloan’s team and the tandem of Millsap/Boozer and Okur. We need a complex system of screens and rotations to get looks for Bargnani and Bosh, rather than our one play:
1) Calderon runs up the floor
2) Passes it to Bosh or Bargnani at the top of the 3 point line, for no discernable reason at all
3) Bosh or Bargnani pass it back to Calderon slightly farther back from the 3 point line
4) Calderon dumps it into Bosh who moved to the elbow of the key
5) Bosh holds it, waiting to exploit an opening.
6) Bosh either drives, shoots, or dishes it back out to Calderon, who then
7) Passes it to Bargnani, or Parker or Kapono for a semi-contested jumper.
- – - – - – -
I think our problem is team defence. If we get that, then our half-court offence can do its job, with Bosh, Bargnani (and in my utopian vision of the Raps, Joe Johnson).
But, if we are getting out and running, get rid of Calderon, pick up Nash. Get rid of Bosh, pick up Amare. Keep Bargnani, and get a younger #2. Keep Marion, assuming he can live with Amare. I don’t think this is the way to go, but if Colangelo is going to go for run and gun, I say, go whole hog.
“Bosh, although Khandor believes is a #5, is not the rebounding and solid presence in the middle needed to clean up on the glass and intimidate opponents. This means that if we slot Marion at the #4 and Bosh at the #5, we need to be an offensively minded team. The closest comparison I can think of is the tandem of Gasol and Odom on the Lakers. However, Marion is not Odom – Odom is taller, can block shots, and capable of a 20 and 15 game on any given night.”
———–
That said, I think Khandor is correct to put Bosh that #5, IF through some miracle we pick up Odom, and he is motivated to play for a team other than the Lakers. But, as I said, that would be a miracle indeed.
well said!
thank-you phd. i am glad someone commented on my basketball portion of comments today.
verbatim, all of your comments today were excellent. the site really benefits from your insight. thank you.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/309/dianagroveascocksuckingsign5jg.jpg
Andiamo, in response to your “hey look at me” “what about me” “hey guys dont forget me” “why doesnt somebody say something nice about me” comment…here goes:
the site is also often better off for your posts as well. Although at times your language is disgusting and your humour off coulour, when you decide to talk about basketball you often make excellent points and demonstrate a high knowledge of the game.
feel better?
http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/boshs-girlfriend-expelled-back-day-275.html?t-275.html=
Looks like Bosh was getting Damien Wilkins’ sloppy seconds…
wtf….do we save money if we get nathan jawai…of course not, we still have to pay him because he has a guaranteed contract, if i am not mistaken.
and you never get equal trade value in a trade if you trade your franchise cornerstone (cb4 or bargs) so quit with that idea…..
and the rest of the things are pretty much what BC (the world`s smartest person) knows…(like signing veteran guys with an edge — well how many veteran guys are there to be picked off the FA class who have an edge or mental toughness — one comes to mind is juwan howard, what are the chances he can still play )…..
Re: coaching.
Based on who is available?
- I like Van Gundy, but he will not be coaching, in all likelihood. And if he were to coach, it would not be the Raps.
- I really like Flip Saunders: He has a good track record, and has been around the league.
- Eddie Jordan: I know far too little about him. But, he does not have the record of success of Flip.
- Messina: completely unknown to me and the NBA. That in itself is a reason I would not hire him. He might be a good coach, but bring him in as an assistant for a couple of years, to acclimatize him to the NBA.
- Any other unknowns? The only kind of person I would hire, is a coach that has worked under, for many years, Jerry Sloan, or the Zen Master. I like intricate offences, and system-oriented play.
What should happen?
- Pick up Flip, or one of those former assistants, if they are available.
What will happen?
- BC will pick up Messina, and we will lose Bosh.
- This will be yet another move toward the Euro-ization of the Raps (per BC’s agenda to bring Europe to the NBA). We then will pick up Marco Belinelli. Bargnani becomes the new focus of our team.
i love how u paint the picture of bosh leaving,messina getting hired,picking up bellinelli and featuring bargs as the main guy on o in a bad light.
xenophobia ftw.
I am actually Italian. I should be the first one to be happy about this change. But I’m not, and it has to do entirely with basketball-oriented reasons.
I think the best product on the floor includes Bosh in the future. It is not a slight to the European players. I like Bargnani, I like Belinelli. But, there is something wrong when a GM picks up players because they are European or played in European leagues.
It is my belief that Byan Colangelo has done exactly this. He, in my opinion, has an agenda to make Toronto the European destination of the NBA. He wants to internationalize the NBA. While this is not necessarily a bad thing for the NBA, I don’t see it is a good solution to the problems of the Raptors.
When I make comments like: please don’t bring any more Euro-players. This is only in light of the fact that we are already scouting Europe far more extensively than the NCAA. It more in the nature of an extreme comment to counteract my view of Colangelo’s actions.
- – - – -
Re: Messina.
IMO, a European coach needs time to acclimatize to the NBA for a couple of years. Is that xenophobic? Or is it a commentary on the difference between Euro-ball and NBA-ball?
so according to u,bc is engaging in some sort of sick twisted nepotism?…he’s not hiring or grabbing the best talent available thats out there and available to be had….hes some sick twisted fuck that wants team europe?…lolerz.
when you put it that way?
Yes.
- – - – -
I don’t think he is a moron, but I think he wants to establish a legacy as the GM who brought Europe to the NBA. Good for him – but I happen to think that that is not what is best for the team. I am not a GM, and willingly admit, however, that BC is smarter than I am. I hope, and believe he can make a good team for the Raps. I just think he has another agenda other than making the best possible team, based on all the talent available.
I would love it is Messina worked out. I want him to come to the NBA. But, can’t we have him be an assistant for a couple of years until he learns the ins and outs of the NBA?
so lemme get this straight.according to you you think bc wants his legacy to be that he brought team euro to the nba…..not that he wants his legacy to be a championship ….but that he brought team europe?…LMAO.U FAIL DUDE.
I don’t believe BC is going this route.
If he does, I will support him as there is a lot of FA that will not be happy to sign in Toronto because is Canada, or let’s say, because it’s not televised in US enough.
So, its clear that you have to work with the people that would like to play here. Not people doing a “Mourning”.
And honestly I don’t care from where the people or the coach will be coming. I just would like to see a team that is nice to see, its able to reach the eastern semifinals, hustle and strive to compete.
If Bosh stay, we will see just a 2 and a 3 coming.
If CB leave, and I was BC, I will pick Nash and I will go with a run & gun. Win or loose, the ACC is going to be sold out every night
Phd: you wrote:
“If I write that the Raptors could win 50 games if Colangelo goes out and makes one more move to solidify his bench (as I did after the O’Neal trade) I get labeled a homer and told that I’m part of the problem with fans in this city. If I write that the Raptors’ season is over as long as Triano is the coach because guys like Bosh just aren’t committed to playing hard under him (as I did in December) I get told that it’s people like me and my doom and gloom forecasts and knee jerk reactions that are killing this franchise and I should stop overreacting. And yet, time and time again, as the weeks pass, the reality of the scenario comes to the forefront. Phdsteve tells the truth and the Raptors will never win as long as Triano is the coach.”
- – - – - – - – -
It is unfortunate that the fanbase is so fragmented. But, this is what happens when the team plays poorly. It is the job of this site, however, to analyze what is wrong with the team, express support, or condemn the team and organization for the product on the floor.
There is NO PLACE on this site for other accusations of motivations like: this guy is a homer, or this guy is is just bitter. Rather, let’s try to keep it to basketball comments, like, I think this team is bad for the following reasons, or think that fundamentally, it is good, and can be better next year, because…(feel free to use more colourful language, such as this team sucks donkey balls for the following reasons…)
- – - – - – - – -
It goes without saying that we are not all experts on the NBA. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be posting here, I would have a job somewhere coaching. I am not an insider. But, I do have opinions, and this is the forum to have them heard. I do not appreciate when people add motivations to commentaries – I think the ultimate purpose is to come to some answers through deliberation via these posts. It is also a forum to vent, and express emotional frustration (or happiness, though that has been rare) with our local basketball team.
Nor do I appreciate, on the other end of the spectrum, elitist points of view that discount any and all disagreements. We have our opinions, and, being opinions, are open to disagreement. There is no sense in posting on a site filled with non-experts, and expect only expert responses to your comments (Khandor). Sometimes people will disagree with what you say, and not have the best reasons – but their opinion is by default valid because they are posting on this site, for non-experts. That said, as frustrating as I might find Khandor’s style, I appreciate how he does not respond in kind to those posts that are simply egregious and have no place in basketball discussion. I think everyone knows what kinds of comments those are – they are in each and every post Khandor comments on. Those, I must say, need to go.
Well, that is my two cents. Of course, you may disagree.
Bite me.
:)
bite me too
Hats off you, Sir. I dream of a place where eleventeen year olds are not unleashing their hormonal overload. Look like we have to do the babysitting.
emo rant ftw.
verbatim says: 24, 2009 at 4:54 pm
There is no sense in posting on a site filled with non-experts, and expect only expert responses to your comments (Khandor). Sometimes people will disagree with what you say, and not have the best reasons – but their opinion is by default valid because they are posting on this site, for non-experts. That said, as frustrating as I might find Khandor’s style, I appreciate how he does not respond in kind to those posts that are simply egregious and have no place in basketball discussion. I think everyone knows what kinds of comments those are – they are in each and every post Khandor comments on. Those, I must say, need to go.
…………..
I hope you are not referring to my queries directed towards khandor and his ubiquitous comments strewn all over this forum. He provides excruciatingly detailed paralysis analysis, and then concludes with some kind of curt and spurious comment that begs explanation.
I ask him to expand on his querulous conclusions and he flicks me off … claiming he has already provided detailed explanations elsewhere on the RR or his own weblog forum and some time ago .. “Go find it!”, he proclaims. How can you deal with that kind of insincere personality?
i am not referring to you. :)
i am referring to people who write things like Khancer, you are an idiot, fuck you you dumb shit, etc…just because they don’t like him.
i guess u like condescending pompous narcissistic cunts….some people dont.
i don’t like the way Khandor writes any more than you. I was explicit when I said that elitist responses on this site are not the way to go, and that by default all opinions are worth while on this site. This is not a site for experts only, and Khandor, and others cannot expect that.
Khandor writes in a pompous style, that I hate. I think he should change it. But that is not an excuse for people to write the comments of the kind I dislike even more. It derails the comments portion of this site, and we end up spending too much time reading through people’s hatred comments about him, rather than about ball.
In fact, I am now spending too much time about this topic. Everyone is free to disagree – but, I have nothing more to say unless it is about ball.
That said:
another ball-related question to RR:
How much would you re-sign AP for, if you would resign him at all? I think he is a great backup player, and could be a part of any solid team in the NBA as a ball-handling #2 coming off the bench. I think he is savvy, just not capable of playing consistently for the minutes of a starter any more. Any thoughts?
Andiamo, it’s funny how you get all emo when someone types a negative word about Bargs or something that you interpret to be a slight against Euros – get all crazy with the big macho insults – yet when someone types a rational well written post they are getting all EMO. And you are calling others “condescending and pompous”. Look in the mirror, Champ.
Or do you just feel like are “real” man when you type those word? Care to share what you are trying to compensate for?
You, Sir, are the KING of emo rants.
u mad?….lol.horns up bitch.
No…LOL. You know I just like you much better when you are being civil, that’s all. HORNS UP!! FREE BANKS!!
In general, I agree with you, in fact. I have had disagreements with Khandor in the past, where it feels like you are pulling teeth to get at an answer that does not either:
i) presuppose that which he is arguing for (begging the question)
ii) blaming it all, in a vague way on the organization for lacking basketball acumen
I am not saying that people need to leave Khandor and others alone. Quite the opposite. I am just a little tired of the derailing comments that have no value, in my opinion, to a discussion of ball. (kind of like this one!!! haha)
FAQ, c’mon.. he’s posted it on here and elsewhere NUMEROUS times. In the collective amount of time you have asked him or typed this demand you could have found it yourself. What exactly are you trying to prove?
Excuse me floxland, but when somebody presents reams of analytical data and then comes up with a ludicrous one sentence blurt that doesn’t follow, that person must be challenged then and there .. and not told to search the forum for the answers.
I mean, come on … all I’ve asked khandor to do is to back up his assertions with some kind of connective logic to his analysis.
Everyone here should lookup the rules for cap vs tax and how free agency spending works!!! There is alot of comments out here implying FA spending so that we’re back at the tax again. Thats virtually impossible as spending is very restricted after exceeding the soft-cap (mid-levels, minimum contracts, sign and trades etc). Dont get too excited folks…
Boring! I’d rather have wild conjecture.
exactly – only way the raps create space is by renouncing marion, AP & joey (& possibly delfino) so their respective cap-holds don’t count against their overall payroll. they’ll be faced with a similar situation w/ VL in ‘10 – he’ll have an ENORMOUS cap-hold figure. good thing that the summer of ‘10 doesn’t figure to be a busy FA season or anything…
oh, just watched sherm’s interview with quinci-brow…i don’t think mensa will be sending out an application anytime soon.
Well they have no rights to Marion or AP so they cant renounce them, but Joey’s Qualifying offer and declinging O’Bryant’s option would be a difference of 4.5 million or so. Even after doing this they would only have 12-14 million to outright spend on a Ben Gordon/Ariza/Hedo etc to fill the wing spots. Once they spend their way back to the cap they only have minimum contracts, Draft Picks, and the right to sign restricted free agents that they own rights to (most notably Delfino) and would not have the mid-level or bi-annual exceptions since they started the offseason below the cap. Either way its going to take some crafty moves and alot of money thrown at late 1st/early 2nd round draft picks to make anything more than a fringe playoff team next year (again)…
yes, but I also started the whole discussion by pointing out that I would trade one of Bargs or Bosh and force the team I trade with to also take Kaponos 6 million contract.
that is how I got to the number $20 million in my earlier response to Dave and that is where I started my observations of rfas and ufas
Toronto have full bird rights for both Marion and Parker. In order to keep those rights, a cap hold is put against the Raptors cap while they’re unsigned free agents.
Bird rights — “This exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player’s maximum salary. The player must have played for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent” ….. Also effects yearly increase rate (10.5% versus 8.0%)
There’s full bird rights (three seasons), early bird rights (two seasons), and non-bird rights (one season).
The Raptors can rescind their rights to Marion and Parker and remove that cap hold. Ditto for Joey Graham and Carlos Delfino. The Raptors will have to rescind their rights to all four players in order to create any substantial cap space.
————————————–
By my calculations, for a $57mil cap (figure in league Memo at trade deadline), the Raptors have somewhere around $7mil in cap space if they rescind their rights to all four players.
That’s $7mil in cap space to spend on one, or maybe two, free agents
In other words, that’s seven million versus — (a) Shawn Marion, and/or (b) Anthony Parker, and/or (c) Carlos Delfino (d) Joey Graham, and/or (e) MLE, and/or (f) LLE.
If Colangelo wants to win more games in the immediate future, next season, he’ll likely take the second option (Marion and Co.). If he wants to win more in the long term, he’ll take the first option. I think it looks like he’s going to take the second option.
Khandor, can you propose some defensive strategies for the caterpillar eyebrow on the newest raptor?
Man, our team is turning into some kind of circus sideshow lol
How do buyouts work in the NBA? If the Raps buy out Banks, does his entire contract get put towards the cap in one year? Does it go towards the cap at all? How does it work?
I think MLSE has the money to buy out Banks, but would it completely cripple the team for the year of the buyout?
The salary cap figure doesnt change – It just means he gets paid a portion of his original salary to go play elsewhere. That is why Olajuwan’s salary was crippling our payroll until like 2005 or something retarded like that…
So, if we buy him out, we pay a portion of his salary for the duration of his contract? And this goes toward the in each year we are paying part of his salary?
How big is this portion?
I believe, but am not 100% sure, that we pay the difference in his salary if he gets picked up and signs a contract with another team. I think. Thus, our cap figure would take the same hit, but it may save us some money in MLSE’s pockets.
Again, not 100% sure of this.
..and that saved $$ to go towards anything (potentially buying a draft pick) (renovations) (MLSE’s bottom line) (Etc..)
Yes that is correct – the cap hit is altered if that player is signed by another professional team (even european – which explains why Delfino’s qualifying offer doesnt affect our capspace).
To be honest I have always been told that its the original salary that is reflected on the salary cap. The reason I’m unsure is because Garbo’s buyout (apparently) lowered the cap hit – but that may be because of medical crap. Assume the worst (full cap hit) and hope for the best (unicorns and rainbows).
Do you know if if the cap hit per year is the actual amount paid or the average of the remaining left on the contract over the years (in case of an escalating or decreasing salary per year)?
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q59
thanks phd
for going later in the draft…how about Jonny FLynn for a PG.
love him! but couldnt handle all the Leo rautins and Stormin norman “syracuse” love-in garbage that would come with him. Also, Id be shocked if he went in the first 35 picks. I think you can get him in the mid 40s.
Fpr what its worth draftexpress has him going at 15…
thats crazy. He is at best, the 7th best guard in this draft. However, if he takes Cuse to finals that could change (and depending on who delclares) but Id be shocked to see him go in the first round, let alone the lottery.
seems like a lock for the 1st round, and likely lottery pick, if his stock continues to rise.
For whatever it’s worth, Flynn says he’s coming back next year
Syracuse University super-sophomore Jonny Flynn told Bud Poliquin, “I’m coming back to Syracuse. There is no ‘as of right now.’ I’m coming back to Syracuse.”
http://www.syracuse.com/today/index.ssf/2009/03/flynn_im_coming_back_to_syracu.html
Ok- but who is Flynn better than off of this list of first round PGs?
Ricky Rubio
Willie Warren
Brandon Jennings
Jeff Teague
Stephen Curry
Eric Maynor
Jrue Holiday
Ty Lawson
Darren Collison
If it were me I’d draft any of the above guards before Flynn. All of them, except Lawson are 6′2 or taller and have more to offer a team than just speed (many of them are also extremely quick).
But I can see why scouts are loving Flynn right now. Coming into the season he was talked about as a first rounder but his season has not been strong – and of all the highly touted point guards in the draft, Flynn has had one of the worst seasons.
Yes, he is crazy fast and has had a great March before the NCAA tourney, but he was horrible and I mean horrible in January and February. He is undersized at 6 feet even (which often actually means 510-511) and has a history of poor shot selection. Like most other small guards- he also has a history of trying to do too much at times- and when it works like when he dropped 30+ on UConn in the division tourney it’s great, but when it doesn’t it’s like Mike James all over again. For my money, if I was going to draft a small point guard, I’d take Ty Lawson. He has shown a penchant for dominating games, whereas Flynn has been ok but has not looked dominant in either of his first two games of this tourney and is currently living off the good press of the Syracuse’s multi-OT win a couple weeks back.
“khandor says:
rupaul has the basketball acumen of shawn kemp.you good sir are correct in labelling Chris a creep.kudos and keep up the good work.”
As posted on Pacman Jonesin’.
Is this really your opinion? Based on the first mention of a potential lawsuit? Is the woman in question your relations? Talk about guilty until proven innocent…you know anything this woman says to paint him in a negative light would be not just at the forefront of any article, but the BASIS for it. I’m not saying he’s wrong, I’m saying that when someone accuses you of stealing, it doesn’t necessarily mean you stole.
I doubt very highly khandor posted this. They even got the website link wrong.
dinosty,
I guess it could be considered as a form of flattery when someone else ventures forth on the internet and attempts to represent themself as me.
Here’s the link to what you quoted earlier.
If you ever see something like that written on my blog, only then would you be correct to assume that it was me who wrote it. : )
verbatim,
Thanks for your efforts in this thread.
agreed.
Khandor it may seem it is a form of flattery,
it is actually a form of mockery.
Just like the proof is in the pudding mon frere.
I think you would be better off as a Lakers fan, you would be the Ying to the Zenmaster’s Yang.
THE FACT IS … “time” is what verifies the correctness/accuracy of the different opinions which I hold, in most cases, in advance of others.
Those who cannot deal with that in a positive and productive way are, unfortunately, plum out of luck.
As I’ve said before on this site, kudos galore to a growing list of individuals like Flux, Raps Fan, AltRaps, Arsenalist, Dave, Scott G., Seeten, Mauro, verbatim, etc., with the demonstrated ability to succeed in this way.
Whether we happen to agree or disagree with one another about a specific topic, it’s a treat discussing hoops with individuals such as yourselves, either here or elsewhere on-line. : )
sledgehammer told you that what you said in your comment on that site was in fact WRONG and that what I said, in comparison, was RIGHT. If you cannot deal with THAT productively, FW, it happens to be your loss and no absolutely no concern of mine. Have yourself a terrific day!
Man there has been a lot of talk in a day…. was trying to read it all but damn…. I’m going cross eyed.
Anyways, I just wanted to make a few points (although they may have been covered already and I’m sorry if thats the case)
1) No ‘big time’ free agents are coming here. Maybe I’m wrong on this but history has shown that they don’t. Atleast not at a reasonable price anyways.
2) This is not all BC’s fault – the injuries to Garbo and TJ (which led to the Jose vs TJ scenario) created this situation in part. Not saying there was a lack in his decisions (ie. Kapono, Solomon) and gambles that didn’t work out (ie. O’neal) but all the blame can’t be put on him. He was forced into more than a few situations because of those two injuries.
3) The one thing killing the raps is jump shooting vs points in the paint. Our bigs like to shoot, our guards like to shoot, our bench (except Roko and now Pops) likes to shoot. Nobody drives with any regularity. Fix this, and you will see a damn different team.
4) People thought that Calderon could single handedly play as Forderon. Calderon has been the EXACT same player as he was for the past 2 years (when not injured). He is the epitome of reliablility and consitency in the NBA. What he does not have is a back up….. although Roko does show signs. Any talk of moving Calderon is the worst thing this team could do. If this team is going to make any moves going forward this is the ONE player they do not want to move
5) I also thought the raps would win 50+ games this year…. so you may want to ignore all my thoughts :)
no hardcore, I think much of what you say is true. This team lacks a good slashing wing player and a pg who collapses the defence by penetrating. If you combined our outside shooting bigs with these additions- this team would certainyl improve BUT it still wouldnt solve the issue of second chance points and rebounding for the 50-60% of the time that the jump shooters miss their shots (since even top shooter only shoot between 40-50%). Some grit and size is also needed.
Also, BC took some gambles that didnt pay off- but he also failed to replace Garbo and in many ways is responsible for the Forderon scenario and for not replacing TJ after he dealt him.
As you can tell from my thoughts in the article- Im not suggesting that they trade Calderon but if they want to run and gun he is not the guy. however, if they want to operate a half court offense – he is the epitome of reliability as you suggest and would be an excellent piece to build around.
As for FAs, players who are signing contracts in the offseason will go where there is money. Period. In february, when guys are getting bought out and signed for the vets minimum- they’ll choose their best shot at a title, but not when they are looking for multi year deals.
Didn’t Salmons turn down the Raps, with no other option on the table at the time?
no, god told him to do it. that, and a deal on the table from the kings…
phdsteve – we definetly need rebounding… I totally agree with that. I wasn’t trying to say that a slasher alone would solve all our problems, but it would definetly make a difference.
I also agree that BC needed to replace Garbo and TJ, but I just don’t think it is as easy as that sounds. All in all… I’m not saying BC will or can cure all the problems, and I’m not gonna let him completely off the hook for where we are at. SOme of his decisions definetely had a role to play. I’m just saying that there were some mitigating factors that forced him to make moves he likely didn’t want to make.
As for the FAs… yes they follow the money, but the money they earn is not only from contracts. These players can sell themselves better in larger markets and markets that regularily get nationally televised games (ie. winning teams)… this means more endorsement deals… that means more money! (and don’t think their agents aren’t whispering in their ear about that)
phd,
You might consider adding the name of Cedric Jackson to your PG list. There are others out there, as well, who are even less well known to casual hoops fans that might prove to be better PGs in the NBA, in comparison with a cat like Johnny Flynn.
i love how the writer of this blog says that he is sick and tired of people using injuries as excuses for the raptors. yet to defend his lofty 50 win prediction, he prefaces it by saying that if jose calderon goes down they might now win 30. so media people, please don’t use injuries as an excuse. however, this blogger is allowed to use it to defend his inane 50 win predictions.
first and only time i’ll ever read this blog.
peace.
Well Hodges, since you are not going to read this blog ever again, let me take this moment to inform all the other readers why your point is valid and yet nto correct.
yes- I did bash main stream media for using injuries as an excuse and and yes I also in my post 10 months ago spoke about injuries as a reason why this team might fail–
BUT (heres the part you missed) I was arguing that injuries are NO LONGER a valid excuse- and if you look at this team since the allstar brea, injuries dont explain anything.
so yes, I was wrong too- but the point was that in the first half of the season, guys like me and others could claim that but now that April is around the corner its lame to still talk about injuries as the reason why Triano cant coach a victory out of these guys.
Too bad you’ll never know this.
phdsteve, This really is one of the better articles i have read and it couldn’t be more true. All season long I too have been saying that were not losing because of injuries or lack of talent, were losing because our players have no heart. We lost a few games early in the season, Calderon and O’neal were injured and had a coaching change and this was enough reason for our players to just give up.
There is a difference between not having heart, and not caring. All of these guys care about their team and want to win, but are not willing to put forth the necessary effort it takes from each and every player to pull through the tough times and accomplish at least what i thought was an easy task, and make the playoffs in the east.
Just compare the games of this season, to those of last season and the year before that. When we were winning games early on and had confidence as a team, those games were not boring to watch. Every morning i would check the schedule to see if the raptors were playing that day, because they really did play their hearts out and those games were something to look forward to. These days, I just don’t care anymore. If i happen to catch a game on TV i would watch 5 minutes of it and get pissed off with the effort that I see. BC needs to add guys to this team that are mentally tough, possibly bring back delfino because i think he proved he was one of the toughest players on the raptors during his tenure here. How bad must a team be to pick up a player from the D-league(Pops), and for him to step into the rotation early and score 20 points with a number of dunks and scintillating plays and get a standing ovation from the crowd, because we won a regular season game against an average team.
“Keep only 1 of Bosh and Bargnani”
This is absolutely right. Keep just one of them, and play them as your starting PF. Obviously neither of these players can play center, and it doesn’t make sense to move either of them to the bench. So, the Raps need to choose which one to keep (probably Bargnani).
Overall, I’m not sure I agree when you say “they just don’t care”. I think the Raps just lack toughness and size. Smallball simply doesn’t work. They need to go out and get a legit center who can play defense and deliver some hard fouls. Even a guy like Kendric Perkins would do wonders for this team.
And, they should obviously keep Calderon. I really like his game. He’s a true PG (not a gunner like most NBA guards) he creates shots for everyone, and his stats are ridiculously efficient in terms of FG% and everything else. So there are basically 2 players to keep: Calderon, and either Bosh or Bargnani. Other than that, they basically need to build an entirely new team. Too many crappy players, cut them all.
reading this a couple months after you’ve written this, and it looks like you’ll never get what you want.For a raptors fan site, you sure don’t sound like a real raptors fan.
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