It’ll be a miracle if the Clippers win another game till April 7th when they play the T’Wolves at home. This was their last shot at a win this month but Baron Davis and Marcus Camby checked in with stinkers as the Raptors found a team bad enough to beat. For most of the afternoon the Clippers looked a lot like the way the Raptors usually do when they face a team sans a 35 games below .500 record so it was a welcome change. Roko was posting people up, Joey was flashing sky-hooks and we even saw Jose Calderon dunk. It was that kind of afternoon. After the game was decided midway through the third quarter it was left to the most bastardized promotion in the league to provide the final theatrics. They cheered loud and Patrick O’Bryant got off the bench, walked up to Jay Triano, demanded to be inserted into the affair. Triano, scared of what might result if he dared disobey, obliged. O’Bryant tore away his warm-ups, jumped right into the thick of the game and proceeded to hit a JordaKobeBronesque jumper to take the score from 98 to 100. Pandemonium ensued.
I thought we’d be in for a long afternoon after the first two defensive plays of the afternoon. It was Voskuhl and Jose trying to defend a pick ‘n roll – they both went to the ball-handler leaving Zach Randolph wide open with rotation responsibilities falling to Chris Bosh. On both plays he didn’t take a step towards Randolph who drained the two jumpers. Randolph had the first 8 Clipper points and I’m thinking this is Boris Diaw all over again. Things got better real fast since Baron Davis’ defense isn’t exactly enthused and includes being committed to not raising your arms as your check is shooting. That check was Jose Calderon. You knew there was something funny about this game when Jake Voskuhl got the start instead of Bargnani who was nursing a sore heel and rained down a 19-footer taking me back to the days of Rasho. 33-20 at the end of the first quarter and my pre-game faith in the Clippers had considerably dimmed. Time to switch over to the Punabi commentary for a bit.
I don’t understand the language but I could’ve sworn I heard the guy say the words “sucks”, “Kapono”, “be”, “traded” and “should” which I took to mean Jason Kapono sucks and should be traded. I have to agree with Mr. Singh on that one. After all, you have to be ultra-crappy to go 2-10 against a team whose idea of playing defense is crossing the half-court line. Kapono got outplayed by Steve Novak which is funny enough even before you consider that he makes 725% his salary. My favorite “Kapoment” was him picking up the offensive foul the first time he touched the rock in the second quarter. Whenever he comes in the game I get my iPhone stopwatch out and just wait for the first bone-headed move, definitely didn’t have to wait long today.
That second quarter was the only dark period for the Raptors and even that was a fair bit rosy. We started off shooting 2-17 (Kapono 0-4) but our lead was only shaved by 5 points. The Clippers played a little defense in this stretch too: Marion, Calderon and Graham got their shot blocked and the Clippers forced a couple turnovers but their inept offense couldn’t convert anything. Their backcourt of Gordon and Davis went 6-25 with 8 turnovers. There were plenty of rebounds to be had in this one as the Clippers shot 39% while taking 75 shots. The Raptors themselves hoisted a season-high 100 attempts (somewhere Sam Mitchell smiled) and shot 44%, no reason why we shouldn’t have reached 130. Chris Bosh was the prime beneficiary of the shooting woes as he picked up a double-double at the half. We were +23 on the glass and I got a feeling Bargnani would’ve had a career-high if he’d played.
A 14-4 defense-inspired third quarter which included a Jose Calderon steal + breakaway dunk, Shawn Marion getting out on the run and a couple Chris Bosh paint scores made it 72-48. The Twittersphere couldn’t get enough of how crappy the Clippers are and I pondered why Mike Dunleavy has a job. If a coach can’t motivate his guys to play hard he should either be fired on the players moved, but with 41 million tied up in guaranteed contracts through 2010-11, I don’t see them going anywhere. Now they’ve had their fair share of injuries but they’ve still got enough athleticism and skill to put forth more than the deplorable effort we saw yesterday. As I said, they remind me of the Raptors.
More similar than you think.Andrea Bargnani is our best post-defender and with him out, it was left to Bosh/Voskuhl to check Zach Randolph. Randolph went for 20/7 on 10-17 and Bosh offset him with 16/13 on 7-15. It wasn’t a convincing defensive performance by Bosh whose man-defense has degenerated this year. Call it lack of motivation, intelligence or talent but we need him to be a defensive anchor down there and take it upon himself to shut down his check like he did in the Olympics. Obviously the competition is a lot different and the job much tougher but I don’t see the same hunger in his defense that was present in the summer. In short, Randolph should not be outscoring you.
Shawn Marion with 14/13. He thrives in no-defense games and struggles in half-court situations. What do the Raptors mostly play in? Half-court situations. And it follows that? Marion struggles with the Raptors. If we keep the Marion-Bosh-Calderon-Bargnani combo intact, how much success are they likely to meet? Depends if Jose can cater to Marion’s game which depends on Jose’s health and the system we have in place which depends on the coach. Will Triano return? If the Toronto media had their way they’d sign him to a 10-year extension but hopefully Colangelo’s a little wiser. If we don’t make an honest commitment to “run ‘n gun” does it make sense to re-sign Marion? I don’t think so but wouldn’t that mean we’d lose him for nothing which means we lost JO’s soon-to-be attractive contract for nothing and took on Marcus Banks for nothing and applying transitivity lost Rasho, T.J Ford, a first round pick and applying even more transitivity, Charlie V and another first round pick for nothing? But wait, we could sign-and-trade him? Does Marion demand that kind of money on the market that a sign-and-trade would be necessary? Probably not, but even if he did how much can you honestly get back in such a deal? Holy crap, this situation is pretty hairy.
Good to see Roko get 21 minutes to run rampant against a doormat defense. To think of it he could be having even more of these games in the D-League – really should’ve sent him down. In one way I’m glad Roko can’t shoot because he doesn’t even look to do so and opts for the drive any chance he gets. You give him a full head of steam and he’s not afraid to take it right at you, he doesn’t have any clever moves to get you going the wrong way but he’s got good speed off the live dribble and makes the interior defense shift. He’s not afraid of paint contact and has improved his finishing around the rim. Once he gets his dribble in order, develops the court-presence and awareness needed to make the pass out of a collapsing defense he’ll be fine. That fine is still a year or two away. Eight solid assists today – very well done.
A couple days after going -40 in PINP against the Bobcats we were +12 yesterday. Thank Joey Graham and Pops for providing a good lift off the bench which had 42 points. I was surprised to see Triano pull Pops against the Bobcats after only 8 minutes, that’s not how you deal with a struggling hustle player. Sure, he’s a little eager on defense which results in him picking up fouls (5 in 21 minutes) but that’s an area of his game which is bound to get better as he gets more playing time and adjusts to what player tendencies are when they get into the paint. He had a solid showing with 8/8 and I get a feeling we’re going to have some competition if we want to retain his services. I hope we don’t overpay, if someone’s offering him anything close to unreasonable then we back-out and ask Bosh to be the hustle guy. Pops was asked what he’s give Bosh for his birthday, he said:
Considering our salaries, he should be getting me something.
I was having a discussion in the chat about Joey Graham who had 13 on 6-11. Does anyone care if we lose him? I happen to like Joey and do think that in a solid system he’d be a solid player. For example, he’s one of those guys that I think would thrive in a system like Utah which caters to players’ advantages. Joey’s advantage is strength and every time he gets into a situation where it comes down to strength and physicality he usually wins out. I think he could be great for 18-20 minutes off the bench if we already have a solid scorer at the three. The qualifying offer is at $3,441,10 and we should be making it. His inconsistency in large part is the result of the clumsy system around him.
Finally, a word about Anthony Parker. Another good effort which further ensures that he’s going to find a NBA home next season. Just like Pops, I don’t want the Raptors to overpay only because he’s played well in meaningless games at the tail end of a season. He’s ideal for a contender looking to add a bench piece, not a team which is pseudo-rebuilding like the Raptors. He’s the ultimate professional and even though his play has been downright terrible at times this season, his effort cannot be questioned. We made the mistake of not recognizing his decline as a starter and were guilty of stretching his role. He does good things, they just come in small doses.
You can’t read too much into this game, after all it’s the Clippers.
Liners:
- Chris Bosh in his post-game interview said the team’s trying to make the playoffs. I take that as an insult to my intelligence. He’s better of coming out and saying the truth: It’s been a crappy year, the team needs to be fixed and he himself needs to step up his game.
- Other than Randolph’s offense the only Clipper to mildly impress was Iowa St. rookie PG Mike Taylor. Energizer bunny.
- The Raptors won all five quarters, that hasn’t happened since we beat Indiana on December 10th.
- Fred Jones update: He still sucks.
- If you take out Randolph’s 10-17, the Clippers shot 19-58 for 33%.
- If there’s one thing that comes from this season let it be the cancellation of the Pizza Pizza promotion. Free food makes sane people behave in insane ways, AltRaps once drove 150 miles to redeem a Hardee’s coupon. They should give everybody a free pizza slice, most of them probably don’t even redeem it.
- Chris Kaman played 17 minutes? I swear I thought I never saw him.
- I had a lot of respect of Baron Davis back in the day. He used to play through injuries, dunk on Garnett, hustle and be one of those players you hate to play against. I haven’t seen much of the Clippers but he appeared to check out early and didn’t even look to exploit Calderon. He’s not the player I remember him to be.
- Our 100 field goal attempts were the most in a regulation game since we took 103 against Sacramento on February 23rd, 2001.
- The win was bad news in the lottery ball department as we’re now tied with Golden State for the 7th worst record. Finishing 6th is almost impossible unless we pull the plug on everyone as OKC has a five game “lead” on us.
Thanks for reading. Follow us at @raptorsrepublic and make sure to grab our feed.
51 Raps
How god damn stupid were the commentators “when was the last time you saw Jose dunk” “I honestly can’t remember.” Uh, how about a week ago dumb shits
i think we can safely say, after this game, that VL was clearly the reason they sucked so much this year. i mean, just look – this was the first (full) game he missed all season, and they not only win, but CRUISE to an easy W. and look – 74 points allowed!! that’s crazy! sure, the clips aren’t having a good year, but that’s just ’cause of injuries & stuff, right? they have baron davis! marcus camby! Z-BO!!!
[he also missed most of the game vs. the pistons a couple weeks ago, and they went to OT (that means they ALMOST WON)! yeah, the pistons were missing 'sheed & AI, but so what!?! the raps ALMOST BEAT A FORMERLY EXCELLENT TEAM (missing two key players) WITHOUT VL - that confirms it, no?]
oh, what’s that? the clips are horrible? they hate their coach (&, seemingly, each other)? they started mailing-in games in Nov? they were missing their leading scorer? their PG is shooting 37% from the floor this year, and carries a ‘who farted’ expression whenever he’s within 6-ft of his coach/GM?
with all due respect … you’ve been drinking a bit too much of that khan’tdor cool-aid.
With all due respect… you failed to see the dripping sarcasm in his post.
well in that case … never mind.
Wait wait, Bosh actually said that they’re trying to make the playoffs? Link please so that I can double over in laughter. ~_~
It’s sad but true, there can only be one winning team in L.A.
Under 80 – no one would ever get pizza. What if it was a more reasonable amount, say 85. What if the raps managed this feat yet still lose. Fans cheering at the end of the game even though we lost? It would still be a joke, same as fans now cheer if we hit 100 even when we have lost and are out of it.
I think you’re too fast to count out OKC. They’re young and beginning to gel from what I can tell. So they are the one team below the Raps with something to play for. If Toronto can pull out the loss against the Sonic-stealers they’ve got a shot at 6th worst. Let go Raptors!
And BC should institute a new pizza giveaway. Keep the opposition under 80, free pizza.
This is a quote from yesterday’s Toronto Star newspaper, concerning a new sports book titled, “The Complete Game: Reflections on Baseball, Pitching and Life on the Mound”, by Ron Darling.
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“This book is not a traditional baseball memoir,” writes Darling, who broke into the majors with the New York Mets in 1983 and currently works as a television analyst, a good one at that. “It’s not a wistful reflection on a workmanlike career. I haven’t set out to tell the story of my life or my time in the game. Rather, it’s an attempt to bring readers inside the mind of a major-league pitcher – to break the game of baseball down to its component parts and to offer my take on each piece so that we might better understand the whole. One inning at a time, one pitch at a time – because every pitch is different.”
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IMO, the vast majority of sports fans are absolutely clueless when it comes to understanding exactly how a top flight athlete, and/or a coach, actually thinks about the game which s/he plays.
Top flight athletes and coaches look at the game …
one possession at a time, in basketball
one possession at a time, in soccer
one possession at a time, in hockey
one pitch at a time, in baseball
one play at a time, in North American football
etc., etc., etc.
They do NOT look at the game in terms of “seasonal averages”, or “career averages”, or “appropriate sample sizes”.
To focus on these types of “measures” exclusively or at the expense of actual expertise when it comes to understanding how an actual sport/game works in real life is simply a waste of time.
The Raptors beat the Clippers yesterday. Good for them.
Each and every game in a season has considerable meaning attached to it.
It’s up to each observer to ascertain with accuracy what that is.
Those who do that consistently … get it.
Those who can’t do THAT consistently … do not.
It’s as simple … and, at-once, as complicated … as THAT. : )
[and methinks certain individuals like Dave, Seeten, Scott G., Raps Fan, AltRaps, etc., understand exactly what I just wrote there, despite THE FACT that numerous others DO NOT. Life's not fair in that sense but ... That's [also] Just the Way It Is. : ) ]
… and you, khandor, cannot see the forest for the trees … which makes your analysis of the Raptors so pedantic and quite disjointed.
You are still avoiding the issue of what you would do with the Raptors if you were in BC’s shoes .. and no, I’m not going to search this and your websites for that answer which you still owe me and the RR forum community.
My apologies … I should have dropped a better link for one of the all-time classics. Try this one, instead. : )
I know we beat them in all five quarters (just like Indiana on December 17th), but I have no idea what the 5th quarter is. Half-time? Pizza time? Useless interviews with talking heads time?
The fifth quarter is the new blog entry and youtube video Chris Bosh posted. Clearly better than Baron’s. Thats where the real battle is won or lost.
http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/08/word-of-day-fifth-quarter.html
I wonder which Clips went to the strip club for some Sunday afternoon garbage time.
Z-Bo? B-Diddy? Camby the Hammy?
Buddy of mine is a season ticket holder. When ticket renewals came out he complained to the rep. and wrote an open letter, copying Devlin on it)substandard product, etc..). It eventually made its way into the hands of B-Co. Colangelo called my buddy at work. He said they spoke for about an hour, and given my buddy’s in-depth basketball knowledge, it was more for a “why I did this move, etc..”. It was interesting some of the points brought up – and I give B-Co credit for going to those lengths for a true basketball fan. Sadly, the sum and substance of the conversation ended with B-Co alluding to Bosh leaving. He did not expressly state that, but that was the tone and inclination of the conversation. B-Co is aware, knows, and is already thinking of ways to maximize value. I was unsure of Bosh’s future as many have speculated both ways..but after hearing that (and I trust my buddy’s ability to read through the lines), I now believe what will happen, one way or another.
On another note, its nice to meet you all. I have been reading this site for a while, just never commented. I signed up on the NCAA pool (Sooner’s sons) but was hoping to wait to win the tourney to start posting (and chirping). This seems a bit easier in case the expected outcome doesn’t occur :)
Cheers
Nice post and welcome.
I would not be surprised in the least if Bosh was traded this summer. I think Colangelo has to see what a lot of the fans see in Bosh – a second tier player that will hurt your team if he’s being asked to assume superstar responsibilities.
Losing Bosh isn’t a big deal to me as long as we get fair value in return and that fair value might be lower in reality than what some might believe. Think VC.
I think that there is a difference, Arse. I remember when I heard the news about VC. I was still in undergrad and sitting in our cafe. I remember thinking EVERYONE basically wanted the guy gone. When it happened, I think generally people thought low value but @ least we got him off the team and could move onto a new “era”. I think Bosh is a bit of a different case then Carter, and we can get more for him. Its not the same scenario so the same rules don’t neccesarily apply.
Carter case:
-Struggling team
-No other real talent
-No credibility in the league yet
-First time coach (if I remember correctly – Smitch)
-Mid-season acquisition
-No forseeable light @ the end of the tunnel at all
Bosh case:
-Struggling team
-There is other credible talent here and some big names
-The team has a bit of credibility (much more-so than the Vince days)
-No idea on coaching situation; have to wait and see
-We have a full summer/training camp if dealt before season starts
-Bosh has not “given” up persee. Vince checked out completely and was slowly being known as a team killer, league-wide and was losing respect in everyone;s eyes. Bosh may potentially have no interest in the raps, but is not doing close to what Vince did. THIS POINT is the biggest difference, in my opinion to trade value and situations.
-All hope is not yet lost…these are just difficult times.
I wrote the Vince scenario as I remember it; not in hindsight now. Thats the general perception that I got when it occurred.
Let’s leave all the other circumstances out of it and focus on the actual trade value of the player in question.
Vince was a superb talent and his stock dropped because of his attitude/not playing hard and because it became clear that he didn’t want to be here. I don’t think any one of those factors will have a huge impact in Bosh’s trade value (other than if he openly says he’s out), the reason we won’t get as much in return as we expect for him is because he’s simply a lesser talent than Vince and overrated by our fans/media.
He’s been feed as a superstar and a cornerstone for our franchise, do you think any other team in the NBA would view him as that? IMHO, he’s no different than someone like Al Jefferson. I’m just throwing caution that if anybody expects Bosh to fetch us more than a first round pick and another decent player they might be asking too much. I’d even settle for accepting less if a team is willing to swallow Banks and Kapono in the deal.
As I’ve said before, I think we should have an open communication line with GSW for Monta Ellis or with OKC for Jeff Green.
still, jefferson helped boston land garnett. And if i remember right, wasn’t vince averaging something like 16 points a game that season, coming off a few knee injuries? I think people actually thought he was washed up, a la Jermaine O’Neal. People knew that his heart wasn’t in it with the raptors, but i think he averaged more than 30 points the rest of the season with the Nets, and more than a few people were surprised. I remember magazine covers and headlines saying stuff like “Vince is Back”.
My point is that although vince’s stock at times in his career has definitely been higher than chris’s stock has ever been, vince’s low point is way lower than chris’s low point of now.
I would actually say think Pau Gasol more than VC, but i guess that’s just as depressing.
And Monta Ellis or Jeff Green is way better than what we got for VC.
Jefferson trade is an anomaly. Remember than McHale basically did Ainge a big favor by making that trade. I’m not saying we’re going to get less for Bosh than what we got for VC, I’m saying we’re not going to get as much as most people think, i.e: star player in return.
Monta or Green are pipe dreams, just saying those are two players I would at least try to target if a package containing Bosh is being sent.
I think what we do in the draft will dictate who’s up for trading. For example, if we draft a PG like Teague then I can’t see how having Calderon makes sense.
On another note, isn’t Colangelo going to feel stupid when Parker walks to another team for nothing after we decided not to deal him. Hollinger’s insider articles were banking on a Parker trade.
Arsenalist,
You don’t think Chris Bosh is rated highly by the media and fans in other NBA cities?
He’s the first name mentioned after LeBron and Wade for the 2010 Free Agency period.
Fans of every major team that will have cap space are mentioning Bosh as one of their top choices for 2010 — Chicago, Miami, New York, Cleveland, Detroit.
Why do you think Chris Bosh isn’t rated highly by the rest of the NBA?
I could see at least one team with the pieces to make a Bosh trade worthwhile buying into the hype the 3rd guy in the summer of 2010 generates in the mainstream media. And teams like Orlando or Cleveland (or LA, Houston or Dallas) would love to have him as their poor-man’s Pippen. He’s got value. He might not be the guy to lead a (this?) franchise but he’s a pretty good player. Put him in the right role and you can win a championship. Franchise focus just isn’t the role.
Dave – It’s one thing when an ignorant play-by-play man sings the praises of Bosh during a game or when a local beat writer day-dreams about matching him up with Wade. How the actual club values the player is entirely different. The teams you mentioned (Miami, Cleveland and Detroit) would gladly add Bosh as a second-fiddle to their already present stars but there is no way they’ll trade their own stars in exchange for Bosh. Since they want to protect their assets they’d much rather make a run at him when he’s an FA rather than via trade.
As for Chicago and New York, I highly doubt their prime target is Bosh, they might settle for him if nothing else is coming their way.
I would actually be quite surprised if Bosh were to be traded this summer because I don’t believe Colangelo ego can take that big of a hit by essentially admitting that he messed up big time and now as a result he has to trade that one franchise player that he swore to build around. That kind of mistake cost the other GM (Babcock) his job because his 4 major mistakes as a GM were: drafting Hoffa, trading Vince for spare parts, no direction and hiring an inexperienced coach(smitch). Thus far it seems that Colangelo has 2 out of the 4 categories covered: No direction and inexperienced coach(Triano). If he messes up this draft and trades Bosh for spare parts ala VC then you can safely call him “BABCOCK Version 2.0″
My guess is that Colangelo will stall as long as he can and possibly even gamble that Chris Bosh will not leave $30+ million dollars on the table for another team in coming summer of 2010. Colangelo still beileves that he is the boy genius and that everybody else are wrong and he is right. Ever time I hear him talk on the FAN 590 he sounds so baffled as to the reasons as why this team suck, even though all the warning signs were there from the begining of the season and most of them did come true.
I do agree that you won’t get a fair value for Bosh when teams knowing fully well that they can low ball Colangelo once the word will be out that Chris Bosh does indeed want to leave. Just like Colangelo was low balled when he traded TJ, Rasho and a pick for JO and was low balled when he traded JO for Marion, Banks and a pick
However you can get some value in return, if you find the right seller and I think that seller is the New York Knicks. If the Raptors can get David Lee and the Knicks first round draft pick, I think they should go for it. New York doesn’t want to committ to Lee because they are eyeing 2010 free agent class and they think Bosh is a whole lot better .This way we can do a sign and trade deal and sign Lee for 5 year deal which will probably be as half as cheap as Bosh (thus allowing more cap space for other free agents) and a draft pick in the top 12-14 ensuring with two picks that you probably won’t fuck up this one.
I really hope BC’s plan isn’t to sign Bosh to a Max deal…that would be salary-cap crippling.
I really like David Lee but I’m not sure how good we could be defensively with Bargs and Lee together on our front line…My guess is Lee will be looking for something in the range of $8-10 million so more pieces would need to be included to make the salaries match…
I hear your points…but basically the point you made with the knicks can be made for many other teams who planned on being spenders in FA ‘10. If you are the knicks (or a team which plans on targetting Bosh), you can’t fuck around. Raptors don’t *have* to trade Bosh. As you said, they still have $30+mln to offer. Thats incentive and no guarantee that Bosh walks. Vince HAD to be traded. Bosh doesn’t. There’s the rub, and the reason why Bosh offers won’t be low-balled. The only consideration in terms of being lowballed, is that less teams may compete unless they believe they had a viable shot @ him during the summer anyway. Less teams means less offers. To me, thats the only way to argue about being lowballed…and again, if the offer isn’t there, B-Co will take his chances with his $30+mln extra he can offer. I think he would like to deal in the summer, as that impacts the draft, any other trades, etc..and gives a training camp. First things first though – need to figure out the coaching situation.
One other thing: Bargs and Calderon won’t get the return Bosh can but if BC is being lowballed because other gm’s think he has to trade Bosh he’s got a credible option in the other 2 of the (not very) “big 3″. In my opinion he shouldn’t just use that option as a bargaining chip to trade Bosh, he should see what offers Bosh, Calderon and Bargs (or any combination of them) get on the trade market and then pull the trigger on the best deal. Do I trust that he’ll make the right decision? No but he’s not going anywhere so he’ll make that decision whether any fan trusts him to or not.
Chicago and Golden State have pieces that would be capable of giving BC value for Bosh. Not sure Golden State management could get it together to make that kind of trade given their ineptitude. I could see Ben Gordon (sign and trade) and a big (I think Noah fits best with Bargs) being the key pieces Chicago might give up for Bosh. The Knicks idea isn’t bad either. I’m not saying it will definitely work but David Lee could be a decent fit with Bargs. He’s a monster on the glass but a bit undersized. What’s his help defence/court vision like? The Raps need a good rebounder/help guy to pair with Bargs defensively.
Hey RBB, how much do your buddy’s seats cost? I wrote a similar email to my rep (saying I don’t even mind the losing so much as the disregard epitomized by their indifference to the TSN2 fiasco) and I haven’t had ANY response – I wonder if it’s because I’m upper deck and my $2500 isn’t enough for them to care about. Any other season seatholders here? What are you guys planning to do?
Not gonna renew and later on in the summer they’ll have Devlin call me up. If I feel they did enough in the off-season I’ll think about it.
I already fell for this ploy last year so this time around I’ll be more cautious.
Same. I’m not renewing mine either.
Last year, they raised ticket prices by 8%… for what? For this?
This year, no price increase… no matter.
The only reason I bought season tickets was for the advance playoff ticket sale.
“A year in the life of a sports team is just another year in the life of a sports fan.”
Platinums (we’re part of the “suits” crowd).
Great first post. B-Co went up a few notches in my book for making that call, although he has a lot more notches to climb before he gets out of the cellar…
I’m surprised he would even allude to Bosh leaving, due ot the effect that could affect his trade value, but I guess all of the movers-and-shakers in the league would know anyways (Bosh does, after all, have an agent who I’m sure is drumming up interest in potential deals). Bosh is not only superstar but also an expiring deal (if he doesn’t exercise his option) so teams looking to compete and teams looking to shed salary should both be interested…
Hopefully we shed some unwanted contracts (Banks/Kapono) and get some nice young pieces in return (and if we do go into rebuilding mode, hopefully we don’t start chasing (or re-signing) guys past their prime.
lakers do..keep the opposing team under 100 and you get tacos,,,,, and they do the same bullshit over there. we want tacos clap clap clap we want tacos! type shit, fuck em all
man that’s genius. i’d so rather the crowd be cheering for the team to be playing hard nosed defense even during garbage time than what we have now.
FAQ,
#1. The answer to the question you asked has already been provided to the rest of the RR community.
There’s a reason you don’t hear Dave, or Flux, or Scott G., or Raps Fan, or AltRaps, etc., asking for me to provide them with that sort of info again, and again, and again.
It’s too bad, if YOU missed it. Maybe you should try switching to “Regular” comment mode. That way you don’t have to miss any messages at all if you choose that option. : )
#2. re: the forest and the trees
* Trust that I see both, at all times.
* Maybe you have a tendency to mix-up one with the other.
* There are multiple forests, in this world in which we live, not just one; as well as an innumerable assortment of individual trees.
* Perhaps it’s that I happen to see more of each than you do.
: )
Dave, Scott G., Raps Fan and AltRaps, what is the “reason” you do not ask khandor for more info again, again and again?
IMO, it should come as no surprise at all to anyone in Raptorville if Chris Bosh is actually traded by the Raptors.
In fact, I might even go so far as to suggest that every single move which MLSE has made, since assuming full control of the Raptors franchise, indicates that this “possibility” is exactly what this organization will do [in all likelihhod] in response to the situation it finds itself in today, with the commitment it has made to Bryan Colangelo, since Feb/2006.
The only prime-time players who have chosen to leave the employment of MLSE on THEIR own terms have been Curtis Joseph and Mats Sundin, whose individual situations on the hockey side of the operation, this organization also managed to mess up royally.
If I was a betting man … : ) … the fact is … I’d be willing to wager a sizable amount of my own hard-earned $$$ on the specific PASS LINE which says that Chris Bosh will eventually be traded by the Toronto Raptors, at some point in the future.
“I don’t understand the language but I could’ve sworn I heard the guy say the words “sucks”, “Kapono”, “be”, “traded” and “should” which I took to mean Jason Kapono sucks and should be traded”
i wish they had said that…but they didn’t :( lol
Yes, Kapono sucks this season.
But does anyone remotely remember what he did for us in the playoffs last year? Yea, distant memory, ain’t it? Just blame Jason for Raptors ineptitude.
i remember they lost in 5…
point is, for what his salary cap hit is, you can find a much better alternative (or two); simply imagine replacing krapono in the lineup with even an average NBA role-player, but one who isn’t limited to just ONE skill. then, add another one. that’s what he means to this team…taking up the space of two decent back-ups, and producing less than half of what one would, all things considered (i.e. sure, he can get hot & score in bunchs – every few weeks – but what he provides in points he gives back in poor D & no rebounding…and turnovers). for a guy who has the ball as little as he does, he turns it over at an alarming rate.
unrelated: NCAA div. II elite 8 on ncaa.com wednesday. Findlay should be playing div I ball. theyr killin it.
HOLY SHIT!
Raptorsspace.com is sooo freaking slow……..
And its not designed very well.
Bosh is highly saught after, he is the only relevant piece of the team here in the states. everyone ball fan i talk to, is always like “bosh is a good player” when they mention the raptors its just bosh talk. they love him for his olympic play i guess.
he’s a 6 “10″ powerforward, thats a 4 time all-star in the east, and is not even primed. its too bad that him and andrea can’t co-exist, it pisses me off actually. that would be a good frontcourt.
i pictured the b borderline c version of dirk and garnett on the same team one day…that would have been crazy.
Dave,
What you said about Bosh being considered a top notch player by other orgnzations across the NBA is 100% accurate, IMO.
Tier 1
Kobe, Lebron and Wade are all by themselves because of their ability to influence each area of the game with their specific multi-dimensional skill sets.
Tier 2
A host of highly regarded players fit properly here; some with a number of first-rate accomplishments to their name already and others with substantially fewer, e.g. Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Billups, Nash, Nowitzki, Pierce, Kidd-J, Allen-R, Carter-V, Gasol, Howard-D, Anthony-C, Wallace-R, Bosh, Roy, Arenas, Johnson-J, Ming, McGrady, Paul-C, Williams-D, Boozer, Ginobili, Smith-J, Turkoglu and Parker.
Tier 3
Includes the likes of Durant-K, Westbrook, Green-J, Sefolosha, Rose-D, Deng, Gordon, Harris-D, Jefferson-R, Lee-D, Harrington, Lewis-R, Horford, Bibby, Calderon, Miller-A, Brand, Iguodala, Odom, Butler, Jamison, Rondo, McDyess, Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, Redd, Bogut, Sessions, Mbah A Moute, Granger, Diaw, Wallace-G, Augustin, Okafor, West-D, Hill-G, Richardson, Barbosa, Artest, Battier, Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, Kirilenko, Millsap, Martin-K, Smith-JR, Perkins, Gay, Jefferson-A, Jackson-S, Davis-B, Thorton-A, Young-T, Kaman, Maggette, Ellis, Oden, Aldridge, Fernandez, Outlaw, etc.
Roy is close to tier 1 or will be in a couple of seasons.
as will CP3
As players shift through different stages in their careers they sometimes move from Tier 1 to Tier 2, or from Tier 2 to Tier 3, etc.; shifts which are almost always downwards with age. In terms of upward mobility, although different players will shift from Tier 3 into Tier 2, for example … it is extremely rare for a player to go from Tier 2 to Tier 1.
As dominant a player as Tim Duncan has been for the last decade, IMO, he has never been a good fit in the Tier 1 category, which has been occupied by the likes of:
George Mikan
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O’Neal
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Lebron James [?]
through the history of the NBA.
IMO, Brandon Roy and CP3 are unlikely to reach Tier 1 status during the balance of their NBA careers … which is by no-means intended as an insult, when you look at the names on that Tier 1 list.
There have been plenty of absolutely terrific NBA players who have had wonderful careers, and were not able to establish themselves as legitimate icons who warrant inclusion on that exclusive list.
How has Tim Duncan, arguably the greatest power foward of all time, not been a good ‘fit’ in the first tier of NBA players? Better yet, what is your definition of a tier 1 player? It helps to define some assumptions or criteria or parameters or use of statistical methods before approaching something like this.. otherwise, everything you say is pretty meaningless.
Brasky,
First. Tim Duncan is one of the great NBA Centers of all-time; he is not a Power Forward.
Second. By the end of his career, the breadth of his accomplishments will probably elevate The Big Fundamental to the point that he’s included on THAT list in my estimation, from a personal standpoint. However, from a more global perspective, it might well be the case that “Timmy” [as Pop likes to call him] never ever reaches the type of exalted status reserved in our popular culture for and associated with with those who are immediately recognizable by a single moniker, e.g.
Mikan [Drill]
Russ
Wilt [the Stilt]
Oscar [or the Big O]
Kareem
Larry [Legend]
Magic
MJ
Dream
Shaq
Kobe [or Black Mamba]
D-Wade [or Flash]
King [James or LBJ] [?]
IMO, there are only 3 individuals in the NBA today with this status, which the ability to dominate a game single-handedly, offensively, defensively, and/or rebounding-wise, in conjunction with championship success and a certain type of wide-spread celebrity that establishes them as individual “icons” within the popular culture at-large.
Hopefully THAT is now a bit easier for you to understand. : )