Still a few hours left to sign up for RR March Madness Pool. If you are planning on taking a few days off to keep a close eye on who might fall into the Raptors laps this year, let me give you a bit of a breakdown on where to look and who to keep an eye on.
First off, let me state the obvious- the Raptors can expect to pick in the 6-11 range this season and should be drafting a point guard. However, history tells us that Colangelo will pick whomever he likes, regardless of what other people think (see Bargnani, Nash, Marion, Amare, etc). Certainly, the lottery could change all of that by placing the Raptors in the top 3 (where they should select Ricky Rubio and not even think about it unless they plan on trading Bosh) but barring that, the most likely home for them is later on in the top ten.
Now there will still be several strong “wing men” available at that pick, but the likelihood of drafting a wingman that can come in and start on a team that hopes to contend in the East next year is just not going to happen in this spring’s draft. Don’t get me wrong, Harden will be solid and DeRozen could be unreal, both would be nice picks but in my opinion neither Harden nor DeRozen (the top ranked SGs in the draft) can solve this problem. No, the answer to this team’s issues at the wing will have to be solved in free agency or via trade. Parker and Graham are both free agents and only one of them should be brought back in a secondary role as the backup shooting guard. Bringing back Delfino as the backup SG/SF is also a possibility. Either way, of Delfino, Parker, and Graham, only one should return and that too as a backup. Finding a starting SG should be Colangelo’s priority for the off-season. I’m not a big fan of Ben Gordon, but I hear he might be taking a pay cut due to the economy. The 3-4-and 5 are pretty fine “as is.” I mean, forgetting about all the “will Bosh walk next season” garbage for a moment, when you think about it, over the last dozen games, the trio of Marion, Bosh, and Bargnani have played well together and really highlighted just how poorly the play of the Raptors backcourt has been this season.
I would argue (and have many times) that the lack of a legitimate point guard this season is really what sunk this ship. Anthony Parker was our starting point for a couple of weeks this year? Ouch. When someone told me that Tony Parker was our new point guard, I got really excited, but then, I realized what they were actually saying. Here’s the real issue: Jose’s injuries have caused him to not only miss time but also look really slow on the defense he plays. He may in fact still be worth the 8 million a year we signed him for, but first we have to ensure that he takes the summer off this year by not playing for Spain and that next season we can bring in a PG who can handle the offense for 15 minutes a night and push Jose to play at the level he played at when TJ was here. And while fans on this site tend to be overly optimistic about Roko Ukic’s future contributions to the Dinos, a real “other option” at point guard is what this team needs most right now. Especially if you can get a guard who can play 15-20 solid minutes a night, so Jose can get back to playing the more manageable 28 minutes a night that we know he is really good at.
About a month ago I rang out some names that the Raptors could expect to be available in the 8-11 range of the draft. To reiterate:
“While this draft does have two or three PFs or Cs that should go in the top 5, after that there is a significant drop off in talent in terms of big men. On the flip side, with most of the top 5 going to “bigs”, that leaves a plethora of PGs and SGs to round out the top 15, many of whom are legit NBA prospects. While this is not the deepest draft in the last 5 years (with several superstars in the making), it certainly appears to be very deep at the guard spots and offers the teams drafting between 7-15 many choices for future starting SGs and PGs.”
In this draft the PG position happens to be one the rare spots where finding a guy who can come in right away and contribute appears possible. Look at the point guards in last year’s draft as an example: excluding Derrick Rose who went first overall, Westbrook, Augustin, and Bayless have all made solid contributions to their respective teams (as had Chalmers who went in the second round). This year’s draft is even better. In fact, I think that there are realistically 10 point guards who could go in the first round (has that ever happened before?). After you take the two “international” point guards out of the mix, since I think both Ricky Rubio of Spain and American export Brandon Jennings (currently playing in Italy) will go in the first 6 picks, it leaves 8 point guards for the Raptors to look at and all of them just happen to be playing this weekend! Now, I know most big-boards currently have Jennings not going top 5, but on draft night I expect his stock to rise. Once teams get this kid in for workouts, he will be tough to pass on given his talent, upside, and basketball IQ. If he had the grades and desire to have actually played at Arizona this year instead of going overseas, he would be in contention for the top pick overall.
The point guards who should be available when the Raptors select are:
Jeff Teague (Wake Forest):
Currently ranked on most big-boards as the top American-Collegiate point guard in the draft. Doesn’t get the same hype he would if he went to any of the other schools in the “research triangle” (aka Duke, NC, or NC State) but is an NBA ready guard. He would be more than a steal if he somehow became available to the Raptors. He is a big reason why Wake has had one of its best seasons in years. He would immediately challenge Jose for the starting PG job.
Willie Warren (Oklahoma):
It never hurts to be the point guard on the same team as the big man that is the consensus #1 overall pick in the draft, just ask Mike Conley Jr. how that all worked out for him! However, unlike Conley who really milked being Greg Oden’s team mate all the way to the NBA, most scouts see Warren as legit, regardless of whether he has Blake Griffin next to him or not. The bigger issue for Warren tends to be where do you play him in the NBA? He is the classic college tweener: in that you can get away with playing him at the point guard in college but his lack of ball handling skills would make him a liability at the 1 in the pros. At the same time he really lacks the size and scoring punch to play the 2 at the NBA level. He is a nice little player, but someone the Raps should take a pass on.
Stephen Curry (Davidson):
Curry is in a similar situation to Warren, in that he is not really suited to play either the 1 or the 2 at the NBA level. The big difference between the two players is that Curry has the potential to really shoot the lights out and based on that fact alone, will find himself putting on a hat and jersey next to Commissioner Stern before someone gets to 10 at the draft. However, the last thing this team needs is another guy who fancies himself a jump shooter but really can’t play any defense. I mean what would we do with J-Killa? At best this guy turns out to be like his dad, and at worst he ends up like JJ Reddick. I wouldn’t touch this guy with a ten foot pole. I hear the Knicks really like him….perfect!
Jrue Holiday (UCLA):
First, let me say that it is tough for me to write an honest and unbiased report about a fellow Bruin. Having said that, Holiday, is a bit of an enigma. From the outside he appears to be an excellent fit for the NBA, in that he can pass, score, finish on the fast break, hit the outside jumper, and play some nice D. The problem is…well, he just didn’t do any of that very much this year in Westwood. He came to UCLA with top billing but really has disappointed. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him return to Westwood and work on bringing up his stock (especially since Collison won’t be returning which means he should get even more burn at the 1). But I expect a team in the top 15 to make him a promise based on his talent and upside and that should be enough to get him to commit and go pro. I will say this – when he is on, he is awesome, but he is another tweener guard for the pros.
Eric Maynor (VA Commonwealth):
Maynor is a guy who’s stock is about to sky rocket. Coming into the tourney, he is already looking like a rock solid first round pick based on his quickness, shooting and excellent defence that has helped Virginia Commonwealth raise a few eyebrows nationwide. The Commonwealth has drawn an extremely interesting bracket for the tourney beginning with a Day 1 match up with UCLA where he will get to showcase his skills against 2 first round point guard picks in Holiday and Collison. For VAC to pull an upset over UCLA, Maynor will need to have a big day. Don’t be surprised to see VAC still playing come week two, and with potential games against other top teams like Villanova, Duke and UNC, Maynor stands an excellent chance of getting his name out and really watching his stock rise. He is someone who should definitely be on the Raptors radar.
Darren Collison (UCLA):
Collision would be an excellent pick for the Raptors. For two straight seasons he has taken the back seat at UCLA to top ranked freshman guards (Westbrook and Holiday) in the media while quietly putting up solid numbers as the team’s starting point guard. Unlike all the other guards being talked about here, Collison is a Senior. He is NBA ready and would bring maturity, experience (with multiple final four appearances under his belt), and a high basketball IQ to any team where he could be a solid contributor immediately. He doesn’t come with the flash of Holiday and may be one of the most underrated players in the NCAA. Top ten may be a little too high for a guy like Collison, but certainly the possibility of trading down to 14 or 15 and taking him would be a smart move for this organization.
Ty Lawson (North Carolina):
Here’s the thing with Lawson, he’s been hurt all year. He could have been a lottery pick last year, or the year before, and had he been healthy this season (and had UNC not started the season 0-2 after all the talk of going undefeated) he very well may have found himself being talked about with the Rubios and Griffins of the world. Having said that, Lawson’s stock can only go up from here and up it will go! If UNC wins it all (as President Obama predicated on Wednesday) then you can expect Lawson to go #7 on draft night – at worst. I mean, he is the most highly touted player on the UNC team (since most experts don’t think TylerHans game translates to the pros) and usually winning a national title increases the draft stock of all the players on the team – see Cory Brewer. At 5’11 he is a bit small but he is one of those lightning fast point guards who loves to push the pace, can collapse defences with his ability to penetrate, and of course loves to score in bunches! He is definitely not a pass-first point guard. Having Tar Heel pedigree doesn’t hurt either.
Nick Calathes (Florida):
Here’s my sleeper pick. At 6-5 he brings some serious size to the back court. He would be an interesting pick for the Raptors, since he certainly does not have the upside of all the other names being mentioned as potential first-rounders but certainly has the tools to be a steady NBA guard. Although there is a lot of speculation that he will return to Florida for another season (and in truth he probably should), if he does turn pro he would certainly be available in the 20s where the Raptors are said to be looking to buy a pick with the 3 million in cash they received from Miami in the JO trade. This seems like an excellent alternative for the Raptors if a player such as James Harden, Earl Clark, or Demar DeRozan were to be available when they drafted and as a team they deemed the 2 to be their biggest need. Another guy the Raptors might consider drafting in the late 20s at the point guard position might be Syracuse’s Jonny Flynn or Gonzaga’s Jeremy Pargo.
Enjoy the tourney!
As always, standing in the key, I’m the Dr. I’ve got my feet planted and I’m planning on taking a charge!
phdsteve
70 Raps
i dunno, man…it seems like it’s quantity over quality. yeah, there’s a lot of PGs & tweeners that are likely to be available for the raps, but i just don’t get the sense that many (any?) are difference-makers (outside of rubio)…and certainly not of a calibre that would warrant drafting a PG over a 2 or 3, unless the goal is to groom him behind jose for a year then deal jose.
that being said, i can see teague being a solid pro, and i agree re. maynor (but disagree re. curry – he’s developed as a point better than i thought, though i’m still leary), but in all honesty, would drafting a PG help in either the short- or long-term? none of the guys listed is truly ready to step in right away, esp. on a team like the raps – this isn’t a case like last year, when the bulls picked rose despite having hinrich. and do any have ceilings that suggest that they’ll be substantially ‘better’ than jose at their peak? perhaps, but is the difference large enough (and can that peak be reached soon enough) to justify passing on both need & best available, assuming a ‘better’ 2 or 3 is available when they pick?
as for roster moves – i’m with you on only keeping one of AP/joey/CD (would prefer CD, at a good price, simply for versatility), though i don’t have any interest in retaining marion.
lots of good points. Its hard to disagree with anything you’ve said here- other than the type of pgs that the Raps are lookign at are more in the Bayless range than the Rose range. We’re not talking about Magic and Isiah here, but more like, Fisher or George. the type of guy who can come in and play top level ball on a championship team, clamp down on D and hit big shots when necc.
I couldn’t disagree more with the basic premises. First, the Raptors are not going to contend in the East next year. They might make the playoffs but the mental weakness this version of the team has exhibited for 2 years now will not go away unless significant pieces (Bosh, Bargnani, Calderone) are exchanged. There are guys with talent on this team. It should have made the playoffs this year but these guys can’t play together, whatever their talents. At least one of the “big 3″ (ha!) has to go. If BC knows what he’s doing he’ll get roughly equal talent back in return while getting a player who can better the abysmal chemistry this team’s performance demonstrates. Right now, I cheer for a team that turtles at the first sign of adversity. Until that changes, talent won’t mean much and no team that weak will ever contend in the NBA.
Second, the wings are a huge problem and given the team’s deep-seated problems if there’s a guy (Aminu, DeRozan, Henderson, someone else) who will eventually develop into a create-your-own-shot slasher (and decent perimeter defender) at the NBA level that player should be drafted. Who cares what that guy produces in his rookie season. It’s the years after that count at this point. Get that wing in the draft (if such a wing is actually in this year’s draft) and maybe take a decent big to make up (eventually) for the loss of Bosh or Bargs in a trade. Get your backup PG in free agency. There are usually a few guys available each year who can run a team for 15 minutes a game. Frankly, it’s not crazy to think Ukic could be that guy next year although that’s a bit of a gamble. If BC needs to spend more than the veteran minimum on a backup PG but how much did Anthony Johnson get from Orlando last off-season? That’s the kind of vet to look for. Sure this year’s crop of rookie PG’s produced but that’s an aberration.
If Raptors management thinks only about next season (again) this off-season, I might actually start looking for another team to support. Wonder what ticket prices in OKC are? Portland?
Sam – I think the question becomes whether we want to contend next year or not. If we don’t plan on, then drafting a project SG and giving him plenty of playing time makes sense but if we’re focusing on making the team better then drafting a PG who is more likely to contribute immediately could be an option. You could then address the SG need via free agency.
I think phdsteve is acknowledging that both the wing and the PG need to be addressed, I think your disagreement with him is on “how” to address the issue.
As I’ve said countless times before, I’m all for rebuilding and am tired of band-aids so sign me up to draft the SG.
I didn’t want to sound too harsh. I disagree with the basics of what Steve is proposing but so what? The kool aid is out of my system and I’m looking back over the past 2 seasons. There’s a deep problem with this team that infusions of talent at any position alone won’t address. The on-court chemistry of the team has to be changed pretty drastically before this team contends. And by contend, I mean being able to go 4 quarters with Cleveland, Boston or Orlando. Right now, Milwaukee makes life difficult for this team and they fold. No amount of coaching or player movement is going to solve that problem unless the move includes a means of altering how well the players on the team play together and deal with adversity on the court. My vote is for Bosh to be traded since he’s the best trade chip, might be going anyway and it sends a clear message to the rest of the team. I suspect Jose may need to go too although I would not have said that at the beginning of the season and may be letting one, injury-plagued year overwhelm good judgment.
Frankly, I don’t think even a good draft (with multiple 1st round picks) totally turns the team around but it’s the critical 1st step.
+1
I think there is a big misconception about the talent in this draft. I hear what you are saying Sam about this team. If you read this site regularly, then you know that I am one of the most critical guys on the web about the state of this team (and have been for a looong time).
But this draft is not as bad as people make it out to be. Yes, it is thin on game breaking talent- BUT there it is very deep in solid NBA starters, and good role players. I wouldnt be shocked to see a dozen of the first round picks actually playing and contributing next season. In fact, those teams that pick in the 20-30 range (the top 3 teams in the East and the top 8 in the West)stand a great chance of selecting someone who can come in right away and help out- and this is very different from previous years where teams like SA and LAL kept on drafting players overseas, and teams like PHEO were selling picks.
Its funny how people are saying this years draft is weak. I dont believe in physics.
There is little doubt in my mind that BC tries to contend every single season. Actually, I think he tries to contend and (re)build at the same time. It may be fair to say that he attempted that this year – not sure how else to explain the half, talent wise, decent team and half, “who the heck are these guys” scrubs. i.e. Jose backed up by Roko and Will. WHO DOES THAT??
Sam, good comments. How to go about “fixing” this mess, depends on the Bosh variable. IMO, it starts with that. If he is indeed not even remotely part of the long term plan, bigs need to be addressed and then everyone else in reverse order.
D12 and KG still need to be dealt with during the playoffs, no? Without (with) Bosh… can we deal with those 2, as the road to the top surely goes through them?
Oh, and I couldn’t agree more on the mental weakness and absolute zero chemistry aspects of this so called team. Maybe, just maybe, last years Knicks come close to playing with the same disgust for each other as these guys do. IMO, of course.
agreed. But I think a top flight coach could take care of that issue.
I think BC’s head coach list is very short – considering he’s not the type of GM who lets the coach do his thing (unless they are on the same page) and that he likes to put his 2 cents in all the time. Also, a top coach doesn’t come to this roster or any roster we will have come the start of the season. A mid level coach or a current assistant will come here to prove himself. Is Sam available? : )
BRING BACK SAM!!!
bring back sam 4 what?his teachings and bad habits got us in this mess.this team will be much better next season.the snowball effect wrecked this team this year.we mad insanely underachieved this year.
Im sure that Sam is responsible for the City of Toronto not having any good sports team. Hey its even Sams falt it rained today. Finally let blame Sam Mitchell for the terrible job that Colangelo did.
Maybe if we bring back Delfino we might reach the NBA finals ha ha ha.
So let me get this straight Andiamo, when the Raps were the Atlantic Champs (I just barfed a little) Sam was an useless pylon along for the ride, but now that the ship has sunk Sam is primarily responsible for this demise?
It this kind of like your biased view of Bargnani? He’s a saint who could never do anything wrong, while Moon is a hick from Alabama and Bosh is the devil incarnate?
We didn’t underachieve at all, man! Look at that roster, it didn’t have a snowballs chance in a volcano. People have grossly over estimated the abilities of many players on this team. And this team MAY be very slightly better next year, depending on the “hocus pocus/ I’m tapping in the dark/ let me call Ms.Cleo management style of BC and what players are added to the team prior to October 2009.
BUT, considering we have Roko, Banks and Calderon all under contract, all with either poor trade value or terrible contracts or both, does it really make sense to draft yet another PG?
That’s where I am on this.
I think the Raptors need a swingman a lot more then a guard and there’s a few people that fit the bill. I really like Aminu and Hasheem Thabeet since they’re both big men who would make an immediate impact on the team. And especially if either Bosh of Bargnani go in the next couple seasons.
banks isn’t an option at pg, and roko has big holes in his game (i’m still a proponent of giving him minutes to see what he can do, but have little hope). we are thinner at pg then at the wing. i am in favour of drafting one if there is a good fit. i heart teague and holliday.
I think Jose Calderon has very good trade value. Also, I think he has a solid contract.
agreed. And a guy like Iverson will probably go for the midlevel this off season.
Sorry dude. Not happening. I know that there aren’t a lot of teams with money, but no chance he goes for the MLE. He’d sooner be playing on another continent methinks.
iverson would never play for the raptors. the guy is looking for a championship, he will take the mid-level with a contender, not the raps.
as far as jose’s trade value goes…i’m all for trading him to phoenix for nash…pull the trigger on that quickly!
Good point about him signing with a contender – I definitely didn’t consider that.
But while I’m definitely not a fan of Jose, I’m not sure getting Nash would be worth it. Nash is what, 1 maybe 2 years away from retirement? While I’d love to see Nash on a Canadian team, I think we lose that deal.
If (big if) the Raps were in a position to draft Rubio a Calderone for Nash trade makes sense. Jose is a decent point guard, maybe better than decent, but he’s a half-court guy. I’ve seen glimmers of Bargnani since the Marion trade that make me think he will thrive with a more up-tempo team. But you need the right PG for that. Nash would do for a year or 2. Baron Davis might do for longer (if he was willing to come here). Baron would change team chemistry. I know that much.
These guy are true PG, because a point is all they can score.
Its who the Raptors get rid of thats going to improve there team not as much as who they get.
we need a consistent, quality 2 guard. we dont want kapono, parker is old and i prefer him coming off the bench.
**************PAPER BAG OVER HEAD*******************
Nobody is making headlines. Most of the Top college teams didn’t make it this year. Therefore there is a bunch of average B-Ball players coming up. If there was that standout guy(s)he would have signed at a predominante college OR that college would have went and got him.
So…. nothing is coming through college that’s going to make an impact with us. How about the economy??? I haven’t looked but what about teams dumping players because they are trying to make the cap?? Lets look at some free-agents or teams that are being forced to trade because the owners are pinching pennies. I don’t means an OverPriced Banks OR Kapono’s but their has to be some good players getting dumped with bargin prices. I bet some owners are looking very hard at the budget and are about to bring the axe down!!!
Like I said before I caught fish when I was a kid with F#%king Strawberry ShortCake cereal. I didn’t have the bait but I still caught the fish!! Come on BC…. time to earn your $$$$!!
your post makes more sense if i imagine that you were drunk when you wrote it.
I guess Your Too Damn Cool to follow the logic.
Drunkness. I agree. Makes no sense at all.
“I love College, I love drinking, I love women”
i guess.
Actually… I loved College, I love drinking and love my women
riding stick. Also love being Vice President of a Quarty Century old flooring company. If you got flooring questions I’m your man.
All I ment in my post is I’m not counting on the Draft to help us get over the hump. Teams will be looking to off load players next season to make the cap. The axe will fall once the owners see their teams loosing ticket sales & money. Better to have a backup plan and be prepared. BC should be the first in line with his golden smile and good ol’ shitty bait…
The raps should draft a C, SF, or SG and nothing else. A centre makes the most sense, Raps are still a poor interior defending team and gets outrebounded on nightly basis. A solid C like Munroe or Theebet would be good. We would have a solid three man big rotation with Bosh, Bargs and Rookie. Once Bosh leaves, we will still have a good starting frontline. No point in drafting a PG, as the Raps have already invested in Calerdron, Banks and Ukic. Swingmen are a plenty in the league and should be easy to find.
I disagree with drafting a C. Considering where we’re drafting at, would any drafted centre (remember, a 19-22 year old) be better than a veteran big we could get for the league minimmum? Not this season, and probably not even next season. We’ve got a couple of young bigs waiting to get some PT in Jawai, Hump, and Pops. Adding another would be superfluous.
I do agree with getting a wing through the draft. We really lack any measurable level of solid talent there; this draft is a good chance to remedy that.
Lots of good ideas out there.
Like Arse said, one of the main points of the article is beginning with the assumption that BC plans on keeping Bosh, Bargs, and Matrix (since, he has publicly said that is what he wants to do). If it was me, Id blow it up and start again, but I dont expect that to happen.
So, looking at where the team is (2nd last in the east), where they plan on being next year according to BC(top 5 in the East) and what they currently have on their roster (a starting 1,3,4, &5- and TONS of gaps and NO bench)- I think it makes the most sense to draft the most NBA ready players- draft for depth, and then use your cap space for leverage in the poor marketplace to get yourself the 2 you need from the FA market. PapiJulio is right, there are a ton of deals to made this off season and a ton of vets who will be going cheap.
I think for 2s here is the issue:
DeRozen could end up being Magette but could just as easily end up being Stromile Siwft. I mean he was dynamite as a high school prep star but was a disaster at USC. Now, OJ Mayo had similar issues playing for Tim Flyod and his choking offensive systems at USC- and he turned out to be awesome at Memphis this year, but its a huge risk to take for a franchise that really cant afford to gamble in the draft this year.
I know people say you take the best talnet available, but this team really needs to draft the most NBA ready guy- The guy who can best come in and compete night in and night out. Unless they are drafting top3, then the cahnces of landing a game changer in this years draft are very slim- and where they look to be drafting (in the 6-11 range) the most ready NBA guys appear to be pgs.
As for pgs’ currently under contract with the Raps, I still think the best bet is to buy out Banks, let Roko develop as a 3rd guard and draft a quality pg.
But IF I could hit the lottery and land top 3 then I might be more inclined to look at some of the bigs who are out there (and consider the possibility of trading either Bosh or Bargs). But outside of guys like Griffin- Im not sure there are any bigs worth banking your franchises future on. Id love to get my hands on Rubio and I think a Rubio/Calderon combo would be…tooo sweet.
as a side note- new Rumour- what about sender Bosh out to Utah this summer for Boozer or Milsap?
not sure why utah would want to do that. i was under the impression they were content to let boozer walk & re-sign/extend milsap?
How do you “develop” Ukic as a third PG if he doesn’t get PT (what with being a third PG?
With a lottery pick, I’d really rather see us get some help on the wing. With the economy being what it is right now, I’m sure there are some mid to late first round picks available for cash. I wouldn’t mind seeing us buying one of those and using it to get some more talent at the backup point.
What about Tyreke Evans? Not sure he’ll declare but he’s a combo guard which would work for the Raptors. From what I’ve seen/read he’s got an ok jumper but can definitely create his own offence.
evans has issues with his perimeter game – a bit of an unorthadox release, nothing that can’t be corrected (or at least refined), and he’s got good size for a point…but it’s questionable as to whether he’s got the ball-handling skills to be productive at the 1, and he’s a bit of a tweener for a 2 (not to mention the so-so jumper). but around the 10-ish spot, it’d probably be a decent pick-up.
i think what i’d like to see them do is pick up a guy with versatility, someone who can fill in at multiple positions, and grow into what their role will be in the NBA. take henderson – excellent athlete, much improved shot, good defender…but a bit on the smallish side for a 2. now, what if he could be developed into a part-time PG? or, a guy like clark, who could slide, depending on match-up, between the 3 & 4.
one of the things the raps missed this year was the versatility delfino gave them last year, the ability to defend multiple positions, handle the ball on the wing, slide up to the 3, etc.
I’m not sure why the focus is on PG’s, when our most urgent need is a 2, as well as some legitimate help in the Bench area.
If appears as if too many people are giving up on Jose, and to a smaller extent, on Roko as his back-up. Calderon may not be that elite PG who can take us to the Promised Land, but I suspect BC will stay away from choosing this position in the draft. Nash has hinted at moving north in 2010, so that would put our PG status in an overcrowded situation. I’d rather channel our resources toward the 2 spot. More importantly, I’d like to see Ukic PLAY MORE MINUTES as the season winds down.
If BC is thinking along those lines, then I suspect his focus will be on getting a starting SG through trade or free agency – taking into account all that madness that goes with understanding Cap minutiae. And in the draft, select a SG who can develop without undue pressure. Someone with a lot of upside.
Should BC acquire a second 1st round pick ($3 million … baby), then targeting a SF or C, might be the next option.
This assumes Marion can be resigned for reasonable dollars. After that, I’d let Parker go, keep Joey & Pops, Humps (if he can’t be packaged), maybe Jawai, and use Kap as a limited 3 point specialist. Speaking of Jar Jar, I’m curious as to how he’s doing in the D League? Any word out there?
The difficulty with signing free agents, drafting in the 1st round (besides screwing up the pick), is how to deal with the financial restrictions that BC has — Cap limitations & a tight-wad Teachers Union … with no disrespect to that profession :-).
I checked out Jawai’s stats recently. He started off poorly but the last few games he’s throwing in about 14 pt and 6 boards in around 25 min. with about 50% shooting. Not numbers that say bring him up now but for a guy who was clearly a project who then suffered a serious health setback there’s at least hope he can grow into a rotation big.
The Raptors SHOULD be drafting the BEST available player they can get their hands on … not according to a perceived position of need.
Drafting by position is Fool’s Gold, in the NBA … whether it’s for a PG, or a Wing, or a Center.
What a Top Notch organization actually does is PLAY its individual players in the positions for which their unique games are best suited; while DRAFTING the best available player who is still left on the board, according to their evaluations.
I actually agree with this. I read the first ‘graph and felt the article’s basic premise was wrong.
You can’t go into a draft looking for a certain position. Time and again better players are passed over to fill “a need” and a team always ends up losing out on a top-tier talent. And why?
In very few sports can a single-talent impact the outcome of a game so dramatically as in basketball. One person can literally dominate a game. No other team sport can say this (…maybe a pitcher in baseball).
Still, knowing that, wouldn’t you always want to just draft the best basketball player you can find?
The same logic should apply to “tweener” type players in my mind. Don’t worry about what mold a player fits into. If they can play basketball, they will find a way to be successful, assuming the team provides the proper coaching and development.
“If they can play basketball, they will find a way to be successful, assuming the team provides the proper coaching and development.”
The reality is that this statement only applies to top tier talent. The Randy Foye’s and Roy Hibberts and Brook Lopez and Mario Chalmers etc are a specific piece of a puzzle and dont have the versatility to play 2 or 3 positions effectively at this level. Its not ALL about drafting by position nor is it ALL about drafting pure talent. Its about players fitting into systems, attitudes, work ethic, and fitting niche’s in an existing system.
It sounds depressing but out of the top 10 rookies each year spots 3-7 (approx)are simply players fitting a role on a team well. Keeping that in mind we should be absolutely freakin ecstatic if our rookie fills out a role similar to Anthony Parker in the short term with potential to become a fringe all-star in the future. Now that I think of it – thats the mould of Danny Granger… (no i’m not bitter!)
oops posted wrong spot…
and … FWIW … Andrea Bargnani is simply NOT an un-tempo player.
He can make a good 2nd pass (he freed Marion for his poster dunk against Indiana). He can pull up for the open 3. He has a drive game that fits a fast break and he will get out and run. I’ve seen it. With my own eyes. So yes, he is not an up-tempo player. If he had a better vertical, he’d be the up-tempo big.
But let me guess, we should play Calderone at the 5. That’s what ails this team.
Sam, please don’t be one of those guys.. the man’s name is Calderon, not Calderone.
The “teachings” and “habit forming techniques” emphasized by Sam Mitchell had nothing to do with the state this Raptors team is in this season.
Jason Kapono cannot defend or rebound his own position.
Andrea Bargnani is a below average Center in both of these same areas.
Chris Bosh is NOT a prime-time scorer in the NBA.
Jose Calderon is a mediocre [i.e. read as "average"] defender.
Anthony Parker is a 2nd tier athlete at the OG position, in the NBA.
Kris Humphries has been out with a broken leg.
Will Solomon is solid Euro pro; but, he does not belong in the NBA.
Hassan Adams. Ditto.
Nathan Jawai was drafted with an undiagnosed suspected heart condition.
Roko Ukic should be in the NBDL, not the NBA.
Joey Graham was/is an inconsistent offense player.
Jamario Moon was/is a mediocre shooter who likes to shoot, a lot.
Jermaine O’Neal was a too-costly add who hindered Bargnani’s growth.
Bryan Colangelo is responsible for the Raptors’ 24-44/.353 W-L rec’d.
Period.
——————————————————————
Hopefully the arrival of Pops Mensah-Bonsu indicates that the bad decisions have now come to an end.
I am willing to bet we try and resign Marion.
I really hope I’m wrong.
So Andrea’s a “below average” defender of his position, while HoseB is “average”?
Pop goes the credibility cherry.
After running hard, up and down the floor, 3 or 4 times in a row, Mr. Bargnani either: commits a foul, misses badly, commits a turnover, fails to get an effort rebound, or needs to take a rest on the bench. He is not an up-tempo player. He is a half-court player.
re: Calderon at the 5
LOL, LOL, LOL : )
We can agree to disagree on what pace best suits Bargnani but until he sucks wind he’s still a better up-tempo big than Bosh, who is a very solid in the half-court but has shown so little when the pace quickens this year.
And Flux, I’m keeping the extra e in Calderone’s name (and pronouncing it when I talk about Mr. Kal der ron ee) until he plays better. If that makes me one of those guys then I’m one of those guys. Youse guys can keep your Spainy pronunciations.
is evan turner coming out this year?, we gotta buy that pick or else we die.
draft clark and turner. c to d version of durant and green…but i’ll take it sni-otches.
folks, you are missing the point- if there was a huge difference between the talent available in the 6-11 range, then sure, you draft the best available p[layer…but thats my point- outside of the top couple picks, you can make an arguement for picking a point guard at every pick from 4-on over a player at any other position.
and we need a solid second option at the one.
Khandor, I thought you of all people would agree with that logic? no?
But can’t you make an equally-solid argument for a big or a wing at those spots? If the talent is roughly equal then a team is smart to draft for need. Drafting for need when you overlook clearly superior talent is the mistake. When the talent level is flat between positions it’s not some iron rule of drafting. And you can get decent backup PG’s if you are willing to pay free agents a bit more than the veteran’s minimum. And (final one) PG is the hardest position to play in the NBA so guys sometimes make a leap after getting the minutes. Chauncy Billups is the classic example of that. Why can’t Ukic make the little leap from project to backup this summer?
phd,
Calderon was signed to a long term contract extension last summer.
If there’s a terrific player on the board who happens to be a PG, then so be it, there is nothing wrong with making that specific pick.
What’s wrong, however, IMO, is seeking out a top notch PG in the Draft Lottery because what your team is looking for is a “second option” at the PG spot … when you’ve already got Jose Calderon on your squad.
There are all kinds of 2nd tier Back-up PG’s in the world … not named Will Solomon or Marcus Banks or Roko Ukic [who I actually like as a 3rd stringer] … via trade, or Free Agency, or with a 2nd Round Pick, etc., and it’s just a waste of resources to go “looking” for one with a Lottery Pick.
—————————————
So Andrea’s a “below average” defender of his position, while HoseB is “average”?
Pop goes the credibility cherry. – by Arun
—————————————
Perhaps you should take the time to list all 30 Starting Centers in the NBA and all 30 Starting Point Guards. If you did, then you should be able to see for yourself where Bargnani [towards the bottom of the list] and Calderon [towards the middle of the list] rank in terms of their defensive ability, at their respective positions.
It’s really not that hard to do. : )
—————————————
Or, you could try looking around the net to see where somebody else has already done this work for you. ; )
Jose is ranked in the middle of defensive PG’s???
Khandor wake up!!!!
He is below average at best…
Andrea is much better defensive player then Jose…
It really is not even close….
Andrea is an average defender maybe (5 out of 10) but Jose is simply a poor defender (2 or 3 out of 10) who struggles to keep PG’s in front of him (pick or no pick)
As for the draft…. We are clearly not close to winning a title, therefore the player most likely who will turn out to be the best player MUST be drafted regardless of postion… It is a no brainer…
If your Boston, LA or another ELITE contending team and draft for need I can live with that, but other then that you draft the best player and shuffle the chairs acordingly.
Having said that our backcourt/wing needs a huge upgrade/face lift and I am hoping this best place player falls into that category.
I see Curry as being really underrated (yes I said underrated) he has no talented players around him when he gets to the NBA and does not have to be MR EVERYTHING he will be a good/great NBA player. My comparisons: If he plays the point would Mark Price if he plays the two would be Joe Dumars (on offence only of course)
His D will need some work. His offence is magical and will translate even more once surrounded by NBA talent.
Reality Check,
Put up your list of 30 starting Centers in the NBA.
Then put up your list of 30 starting Point Guards.
That’s how you can see where each of these players might rank at their respective positions, in the NBA, in terms of their defensive ability.
Simply saying that you think someone is a 5 out of 10 … is meaningless.
I can point you to two comparative lists like that.
Please let me know where your two lists are at? : )
Here.
I’ll even do some of the work for you … by providing a list of the players you will need to evaluate for their “defensive” ability at the Center and PG positions, relative to one another.
1. y-Cleveland — Ilgaukas; Williams-M
2. y-Boston 4.5 Perkins; Rondo
3. x-Orlando 5.0 Howard; Nelson
4. Atlanta 14.5 Horford; Bibby
5. Miami 18.5 O’Neal-J; Chalmers
6. Philadelphia 20.0 Dalembert; Miller-A
7. Detroit 21.5 Wallace-R; Stuckey
8. Chicago 23.5 Noah; Rose
9. Milwaukee 25.0 Bogut; Ridnour [or Sessions]
10. Charlotte 25.0 Okafor; Felton
11. New Jersey 26.0 Lopez; Harris
12. New York 26.5 Lee; Duhon [or Robinson]
13. Indiana 27.5 Foster; Ford
14. Toronto 31.0 Bargnani; Calderon
15. Washington 39.5 Haywood; Arenas
Western Conference
Team GB
1. y-LA Lakers — Bynum; Fisher
2. * San Antonio 8.5 Duncan; Parker-T
3. Houston 10.0 Ming; Brooks
4. * Denver 10.5 Nene; Billups
5. New Orleans 11.5 Chandler; Paul
6. Portland 11.5 Oden [or Przybila]; Blake
7. Utah 12.0 Okur; Williams-D
8. Dallas 13.5 Dampier [or Nowitzki]; Kidd
9. Phoenix 17.0 O’Neal-S; Nash
10. Golden State 30.0 Biedrins; Ellis
11. Minnesota 34.0 Jefferson; Telfair
12. Oklahoma City 35.0 Krstic; Westbrook
13. Memphis 36.5 Gasol; Conley
14. LA Clippers 37.0 Camby; Davis
15. Sacramento 40.0 Hawes; Udrih
All you have to do then is put them in the order that you wish. : )
You tell me the PG’s Jose is better then on the defece side of the court since it was your SILLY statement…
How would you go about ordering your rankings? I remember you saying before that metrics are meaningless when it comes to assessing point guards.
Reality Check,
If you don’t want to put up your lists … that’s perfectly alright with me. : )
What I said is what I’ve said. You are free to disagree.
If you wish to look around the net … what you should be able to see for yourself is that my two lists have already been published for public consumption elsewhere. : )
Have yourself a terrific day!
—————————–
How would you go about ordering your rankings? I remember you saying before that metrics are meaningless when it comes to assessing point guards. – by Brasky
—————————–
I think you might be referring to what I said in another thread about “measuring the impact a PG has” by a team’s W-L rec’d vs any other position on a basketball team … which is not quite the same thing as “ranking the starting PG’s in the NBA according to his individual defensive ability”; in which case it would be up to each evaluator to develop his/her own means of construction for that specific list.
So how do you go about ranking a starting PG in the NBA according to his individual defensive ability?
Brasky,
IMO … you would look at things like:
* Ability to keep his own check in front of him when there’s been no pick set by a Big
* Ability to switch onto bigger players without getting hurt inside severely
* Ability to play effective team defense [e.g. help, rotate, read situations correctly, play in the passing lanes, make steals and deflections, double-team in the post with good size, trap vs Big-on-Little pick situations, etc., etc., etc.]
“If they can play basketball, they will find a way to be successful, assuming the team provides the proper coaching and development.”
The reality is that this statement only applies to top tier talent. The Randy Foye’s and Roy Hibberts and Brook Lopez and Mario Chalmers etc are a specific piece of a puzzle and dont have the versatility to play 2 or 3 positions effectively at this level. Its not ALL about drafting by position nor is it ALL about drafting pure talent. Its about players fitting into systems, attitudes, work ethic, and fitting niche’s in an existing system.
It sounds depressing but out of the top 10 rookies each year spots 3-7 (approx)are simply players fitting a role on a team well. Keeping that in mind we should be absolutely freakin ecstatic if our rookie fills out a role similar to Anthony Parker in the short term with potential to become a fringe all-star in the future. Now that I think of it – thats the mould of Danny Granger… (no i’m not bitter!)
2 Trackbacks
[...] a player type I’ve grown wary of. ** recommended by phdsteve. *** these guys are on the [...]
[...] week I speculated on the Raps drafting a PG and previewed some of the NCAAs top guards heading into the tournament. [...]