They say that the first stage of any torture procedure is the worst because once you become used to the initial pain, whatever follows becomes easier to handle. That’s exactly how I feel about the Raptors…

This is very often the case. See Bosh, Chris for more evidence.

Essentially I said I was referring to being switched onto Deron, not defending penetration at the elbow on a pnr.

considering what is available, unproven youngs and breaking down vets, crawford is a decent option at 10 million. christ kapono is making 6 million, i have no problem saying crawford is twice the player kapono is, do u?

he has a swagger that we sorely lack, he can break down defenses, has good height, a good handle, LIKES TO RUN, and can pass. he brings to the table everything we are kinda lacking. aaaannnnd hes playing in golden state with little shooting restraint and the knicks before that with very much the same long leash. and i would give him the green light for us too.

and all joking aside, based on what teams might be willing to give up versus what we have/are willing to offer, i would like to hear your suggestions instead. would you trade bosh for an unproven young? would you throw cash at a broken down t-mac? would you stand pat with parker? im just curious. delfino isnt the answer, nor is parker.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to long term/being serious about the future Raptors and by no means was I seriously giving consideration to signing these guys as next years Raptors. The point I was trying to make is the effort given by your (as a fan) team, be it the Raptors, Warriors, Thunder, etc… is alot of what the fans like to see. Effort shows a willingness to improve and work on your weaknesses not just play how you did the previous game and hope it works this time.

To see these multi-millionaires go through the motions while we the fans are paying to see/support them is frustrating to say the least. I watched the game last night and was thoroughly disgusted by the effort. Maybe I am just jaded from this years results and what I’ve seen on the court from the Raptors, but how many teams throughout the league do you see giving this kind of crap effort 9 games out of 10. I am one of the lucky viewers not in Toronto that gets TSN2 and has watched about 90% of the games this year, and after a majority of the games I ask myself “Why the hell am I watching these guys and cheering for them if they don’t care themselves?” That is sad in itself that a fan of the team should even feel that way.

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re: a line-up like this

C – Chris Andersen
PF – Anderson Varejao
SF – Ron Artest
SG – Matt Barnes
PG – Bobby Jackson
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IMO … and despite what you might say right now … you and scores of other Raptors fans would quickly grow tired of watching a team with those 5 players included as central characters, and ZERO hope for future advancement up the league standings.

C – Chris Andersen
PF – Anderson Varejao
SF – Ron Artest
SG – Matt Barnes
PG – Bobby Jackson

than this crap I am watching right now… at least these guys would put some damn effort into the playing the game. I don’t mind losing but lack of effort is unforgivable IMO.

even my less than Basketball educated wife asked me last night, “Why are the Raptors always losing when I see you watching them” that almost brought a tear to my eye as I remembered the years of Antonio Davis, Oakley and JYD. Dammit get mad and show some pride in your livelyhood.

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re: I didn’t factor the blocks into the analysis of his individual defense at all. His blocks arise out of instinct, more than anything else. The individual defense I am talking about is his footwork, if you watch when someone faces him, he has his hands up, and active, and his feet moving. He does a pretty good job of keeping people that aren’t small forwards or guards in front of him, and lets be real, nobody is expecting him to keep Lou Williams, or Allen Iverson or Deron Williams in front of him.
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This is where I have to disagree. Thoroughly understanding how “vs Picks” defense works in the NBA necessitates that he MUST improve dramatically in this regard, if he’s going to be able to succeed as a Main-frame #5/C, in this league, given the fact that he is NOT [yet?] a power-based Warrior like the [old school?] Shaqtus was in his heyday.

Men like Tim Duncan and even a less-than-stellar #5/C like Kendrick Perkin excell at keeping guards and forwards in front of them, in Pick situations, which contributes mightily to the overall success their teams have on the defensive end of the floor.

What Deron Williams did to Bargnani in the final 1:35 of Sunday’s game simply CANNOT continue to happen if he’s going to play at crunch-time for a high end team in this league.

I didn’t factor the blocks into the analysis of his individual defense at all. His blocks arise out of instinct, more than anything else. The individual defense I am talking about is his footwork, if you watch when someone faces him, he has his hands up, and active, and his feet moving. He does a pretty good job of keeping people that aren’t small forwards or guards in front of him, and lets be real, nobody is expecting him to keep Lou Williams, or Allen Iverson or Deron Williams in front of him.

He does a very good job with his body getting into power centers, and keeping them out of their comfort zone, and he’s still only 23 and has thickening out to do, I think he’s gonna be even better in the coming years against them, and as mentioned above, his footwork and hands suggest he also “gets it” for playing individual defense. I think he’s gonna be rough on centers in the mold of Antonio Davis/Sam Dalembert in the future, even if he still has some trouble with them today.

On the topic of the blocks, he has significant amounts of them against 3’s and 2’s contesting jumpers, which shows his long arms(A definite plus) and willingness to get out and get his hands up, and his exceptional coordination.

He does not play good team defense, but I have high hopes that he will learn to do so. Part of it is that the team doesn’t do what its supposed to do, so if you are expecting Bosh to zig, for example, and he zags, you need to be able to adjust to whatever silly thing the Raptors have done this time. Often, someone does something ridiculous, like Anthony Parker leaving Ray Allen alone for a 3, to sag onto Leon Powe, for example, and suddenly Andrea looks lost. To be honest, at that moment, I look lost, and horrified, also. I think as he fully realizes what is supposed to be done, and commits that to muscle memory, he’ll be able to adjust to blown plays, as he has shown a high degree of intelligence in the other aspects of the game he’s grasped.

I’m not ready to crown him All-Defensive Third team, or anything, but I think this year he’s hit average to slightly above average as an individual defender, and I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling defensively, at all.

I also think he is starting to garner respect from refs, and many of the fouls he’s picked up, and travels, were of the “He cant actually do that, it must have been a foul/travel” variety, and now he’s starting to get respect, and calls. Not always, but much more than he did earlier this season.

I gave up on the season an awful long time ago, and have generally been watching Andrea Bargnani, sort of like the Thunder fans did with Durant, so I’ve paid a great deal of attention to why he hasn’t been getting the ball in situations, where he has had some of his issues, and if he’s been working through them, etc. Its much more interesting than watching the Raptors act as though they have no idea how to play team defense, or pass the ball.