From the RR home office in Athabasca, Alberta, here’s today’s Top Ten List. The category is Top Ten signs your team isn’t very good.
- Your starting center’s averaging just over 5 rebounds a game and everybody’s OK with it.
- Most of the city can’t watch more than a third of the games but management doesn’t seem to care.
- When somebody calls out “screen left” to your starting point guard he takes it to mean that the guy who called it will take care of his man from this point out.
- You have a three-point shooter that doesn’t shoot threes.
- The coach is the most intense guy on the team.
- Your superstar stares down the camera after beating Memphis at home and the team follows it up by losing 7 straight.
- The team signs Pops Mensah-Bonsu and he’s a massive upgrade over anyone you had on the bench.
- You start getting nostalgic about the “good ‘ol Babcock days”.
- A Croatian rookie with an ugly shot and a suspect handle is referred to as “the future”.
…and the #1 sign your team isn’t very good…drum roll….
- You’re 14th in a 15 team conference.
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107 Raps
That’s just awesome.
Can’t summarize the season better.
11) Your best player is looking forward to playing for another team when he becomes a FA in two years.
who ever gets nostalgic about the babcock days deserves to be bound, gagged, beaten and sodomized.
Who can ever forget the 2005 draft.
You mean the 2004 draft right???!!!
Bargnani will never be a rebounding, ball-grabbing (pun intended) beast like Reggie Evans, which I’m totally cool with. I think he improved quite a bit in the board-crashing area, though. The progress he’s definitely making is what I’m “OK with”. And you can’t ignore the shot-blocking.
Whatever happened to Calderón?
He’s making progress, while the team is losing the season, kinda like what rookies do when they play for the Clippers. Do you think Bargs can improve during a winning season and winning core of players?
Is anyone else out there hoping for a the miracle of the #1 pick, signing Blake Griffin, and trading off Bosh for the missing pieces in this franchise?
i’d love for that too happen, even if we don’t trade bosh, getting griffin would be primo, dude is an animal.
Trade Bosh FOR Griffon. With the resulting caps space the team could be filled out quite nicely.
why do i get the feeling it’s not going to be a top-10 list for long?
12) You traded the wrong PG (TJ Ford) and a draft pick for a Center who slowed down the team immensley and hurt the development of your Center
13) You traded that Center(Slow Neal) + A Draft pick midway for a SF in hopes you can salvage the season enough to keep Bosh aroundconvince Bosh to stick around
14) You wake up one morning and realize that both the SF you aquired and the franchise player you love will realistically be gone withing 12 months of each other
15)You dont worry becuase next year 50% of the games will be on TSN 2, 20% will be on TSN 3 and 10% will be on HBO
#15 is classic man. HBO..LOL
Can’t wait for TSN8…the Ocho!
ALL JOSE, ALL THE TIME!!
If i grow very old, there may be a TSN90.
That’s gold, Arse – everything covered except for the horrible contracts and cap inflexibility. I was thinking about #4 the other day… and I couldn’t quite figure out if BC was going to offer Pops a 3 year deal at $3mil per or not. If we’re giving out those contracts to people that don’t even play and no other team wants…
Pops has to be worth at least that much. Maybe we could grab 5 more D-Leaguers and lock them up with some massive long-term deals.
This post is a classic
How about reinventing the concept of sports based on democratic politics. Let’s make the Raptors kneel before us. Yes, we can!
It would be the first pro-sports team to be accountable to its fans. The Rules would be simple.
1) A list of players that are realistically available is drawn.
2) A list of coaches is drawn
3)Players campaign for their cause and give the electorate a glimpse of their potential.(show their skills in the summer league-Every player must participate) same applies to coaches (with a rotation for every 3 games)
Promo material is permissible via YouTube and Facebook but should not exceed fees of 250$
4) Players present their platforms (Promise to average 15 and 8 for example) Results are backed by output in summer league. Same applies for coaches
5) Elections are held prior to the beginning of the season. There are 5 seats up for grab. PG, SG, SF, PF and C. The top vote getter, in each category is assigned a cabinet position (starting positions) Same applies to the coaching staff.
6) Salary is determined by minutes played (1 minute=2500$) with a minimum salary of 150,000. Do the math, your franchise player plays 42 minutes x 82 games = 3,444 minutes x 2500 =8,610,000$
Coaches’ salary is based on a per-win scenario (25,000$) with a guaranteed 75,000$ salary.
7) Players and coaches are given a mandate of 10 games. At the end of the term, the fans are consulted again. The vote is drawn again.
8) The bench is to be used by the coaching staff as they see fit.
9) The captain is elected by the team
10) If the team makes the playoffs, a vote is held prior to every game, in order to determine the cabinet positions.
By doing this, the team would be fully accountable to the fans! The ACC would be always full because, the players would represent the will of the people. Hell, we could even elect the cheerleaders!
Any other suggestions?
youre assuming the majority of the ppl that watch the raptors are smart and understand basketball.
16) Your GM ends up trading everyone he signs.
17) Your fan site is dedicated to carving up every player on your team on a daily basis.
Q?) What do you call a team/player/person that can’t handle some criticism for their poor results/performances/production?
A!) Soft.
hear hear!
18) A 10 year season seat holder who has always been optimistic about the franchise decides not to renew because he’s had enough.
that was me last year….
19) openly wishing bodily harm upon certain (cough kapono cough) players.
20) spending entire games with a ‘who farted?’ grimace/cringe on your face.
#20….bang on!
omg #20. My girlfriend said that to me like 25 games ago.
21) being in a fight to not be the worst team in the league, and realizing that it could very well get worse.
22) You’re still hoping to make the playoffs, instead of worrying about finishing last in the conference.
Point number 1. was all that needed to be said.
I agree with Raps Fan 100% and will add that we have not had a GM that is worthy of be nostalgic for, ever.
As cloudy and dark as this season has been we still have young assets to build on, some flexibility to improve the team in the off-season, we have a respected (and, yes, competent) GM that players like to play for in a city (country) most American players avoid like the plague and no player (publicly) has asked to be traded in three years (used to be an annual tradition)…I realize this is not a popular stance at the moment but the sky is not falling.
I agree. It’l all be worked out. It would be nice to see these guys actually get pissed off for once and play with some heart and fire like they are sick of getting pissed on! Triano should not be the guy with the most passion on the team.
hilarious and oddly consoling to know that i’m not the only one who is down on the raps. i had a friend text me “take that memphis” after that game, and all i could do was shake my head. maybe #11 on your list could be “gaining confidence from beating the memphis grizzlies at home”
oops, didn’t read all the additions, make mine a modest #22
Arsenalist,
Solid list!
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re: #8. When somebody calls out “screen left” to your starting point guard he takes it to mean that the guy who called it will take care of his man from this point out.
—————————————
Please be aware, however, that … when The Caller yells out “screen left” because his check has set a Pick, it is also then still The Caller’s responsibility to put The Switch into effect, NOT the decision of Original Ball Defender [nor his individual responsibility within this specific defensive scheme].
i.e. The Raptors’ breakdowns in this regard are primarily the fault of the Picker’s Defender, when he isn’t Jamming or Gaping, not the Original Ball Defender.
exactly. criticizing jose’s stellar D is not allowed.
21) irrational fan behaviour, both in critizing & defending.
sorry, but … sometimes “gaping” and “not gapping” go together when the defender in question is Bargnani. : )
The decision to switch or not is usally made by the head coach during a timeout.
From Raptors to Ratpors !!!!!!!!!!!
Is there a way to make this post the Rap of the Day?
yertu,
When you look at the list of 30 starting PGs in the NBA what you see is that there are a number of mediocre-to-poor individual defensive players who run the Point for their respective teams … which is part of what slots Jose Calderon into the “average” strata, in this regard.
Criticizing Calderon’s defense is quite alright … when it’s for the correct reasons.
[e.g. Like whenever he gets beat off the bounce without the benefit of a Pick; not when the opposition PG uses a Pick from Bargnani's - or O'Neal's - check to drive to the basket and score a layup, or create an open jumpshot for himself vs Bargnani, or create an open shot for a teammate from a drive made vs Bargnani, not Calderon]
if jose’s ‘average,’ i’d love to have a gander at ‘below-average’ defending PGs. have we played any yet?
whatever. it’s all bargnani’s fault, or all kapono’s fault. that’s the part of ‘irrational’ behaviour i’m talking about – staking yourself to certain players to the point that you’ll never see fit to criticize their play, and in others who you only see the negative. i don’t think i’ve read a negative word from you re. AP, or joey, or hump, or bosh, or jose…but there’s always an excuse or rationale provided for those players, which inevitibly places blame for their mistakes on others.
i’m all for calling a spade a spade – when player x plays well, then player x gets credit. likewise, when he plays like shit, the criticism should not only be warranted, but welcome. criticizing a player for a performance in a game or series of games is not the same as condemning them as a player or as a person. if one cannot look beyond their pre-conceived notions of how they THINK a player SHOULD perform & see what their actual performance is, they really shouldn’t be handing out lessons on the finer points of who’s the blame for not covering the fucking PnR.
Yertu
Khandor should be or could be,wanna be CB4′s agent.
Sorry I meant to put it here.
This post is a classic (Top Ten reasons)
How about reinventing the concept of sports based on democratic politics. Let’s make the Raptors kneel before us. Yes, we can!
It would be the first pro-sports team to be accountable to its fans. The Rules would be simple.
1) A list of players that are realistically available is drawn.
2) A list of coaches is drawn
3)Players campaign for their cause and give the electorate a glimpse of their potential.(show their skills in the summer league-Every player must participate) same applies to coaches (with a rotation for every 3 games)
Promo material is permissible via YouTube and Facebook but should not exceed fees of 250$
4) Players present their platforms (Promise to average 15 and 8 for example) Results are backed by output in summer league. Same applies for coaches
5) Elections are held prior to the beginning of the season. There are 5 seats up for grab. PG, SG, SF, PF and C. The top vote getter, in each category is assigned a cabinet position (starting positions) Same applies to the coaching staff.
6) Salary is determined by minutes played (1 minute=2500$) with a minimum salary of 150,000. Do the math, your franchise player plays 42 minutes x 82 games = 3,444 minutes x 2500 =8,610,000$
Coaches’ salary is based on a per-win scenario (25,000$) with a guaranteed 75,000$ salary.
7) Players and coaches are given a mandate of 10 games. At the end of the term, the fans are consulted again. The vote is drawn again.
8) The bench is to be used by the coaching staff as they see fit.
9) The captain is elected by the team
10) If the team makes the playoffs, a vote is held prior to every game, in order to determine the cabinet positions.
By doing this, the team would be fully accountable to the fans! The ACC would be always full because, the players would represent the will of the people. Hell, we could even elect the cheerleaders!
Any other suggestions?
Welcome to the XBA. (Where Self-Degeneration Happens).
Realizar,
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re: The decision to switch or not is usally made by the head coach during a timeout.
—————————————
According to the gameplan & scheme in play that’s certainly one possibility.
In terms of the defensive play’s execution, however …
The individual responsibility for the Verbal Call and the Initiating Action of The Switch sequence falls on the Pick Defender [not the Original Ball Defender].
THAT is how it works with elite level teams the world over.
khandor you absolutely crack me up..have you played basketball at an elite level? or have you talked to elite level teams all over the world and asked them who’s responsibility it is to initiate the switch?
i have read a bunch of your posts and you always tell people to back up what they say. so i’m giving u the opportunity to support this claim (or as you put it…fact).
yertu,
The people in the NBA community criticizing the less-than-stellar play of Calderon and Bosh, this season, and blaming those two players, specifically, for the Raptors’ failures this season are Raptors fans … in part, because Raptors fans have the mistaken belief that they can see just how bad these two players really are, on account of seeing them play each and every game, when in fact others around the hoops’ community may not be in this same situation.
Well, you know what?
IMO, most Raptors fans are WRONG.
It’s the people who see all the players perform in this league, on a regular basis, without an exclusive Raptors’ bias at their Core that have the best perspective on which players – elite and otherwise – fit coorectly into what specific categories when it comes to High End, Middle-of-the-Pack and Low End.
The simple fact is this:
You do not hear notable NBA observers saying that Jose Calderon’s horrid defense is to be blamed for the Raptors decline this season; or, that Chris Bosh’s lack of clutch scoring is to blamed for the Raptors’ 23-40 [?] Won-Loss Record.
What credible people will tell you, however … is that:
[in no particular order]
* The overall talent and depth of talent on this roster is highly questionable
* Bargnani & Bosh are incompatible
* Bosh is a stellar player who needs other stellar players on his team
* Calderon is a solid all-around PG with defensive weaknesses that can and should be adequately overcome by a first-rate organization that signs him to a long term contract for Big Bucks, as it should know exactly what it was getting in the first place [i.e. high Ast:TO, great decision-making, good size, good leadership, solid perimeter shooting, solid FT shooting, solid finish at the rim, below-average individual defender, above-average team defender, etc.]
* There are not enough Solid Rebounders/Defenders on the roster overall
* There are too many non-NBA-athletic players on the roster overall
* There are too many poor Rebounders/Defenders either from an individual or a team perspective getting too many minutes per game, especially in Key situations, on this roster
* There is no credible Back-up PG on the roster … except for Anthony Parker
* Chris Bosh is a more effective Center than he is a Power Forward, yet the Raptors keep playing him as a Power Forward?
* Andrea Bargnani is a solid scorer/perimeter shooter who is a weak defender [especially a Team Defender] who fouls a lot and is not adept at Rebounding
* The overall identity of this team has NOT been set in stone by its management team
* There’s a cross-wiring within this organization that does not seem to emphasize WINNING at all costs but prioritizes making an annual profit
* etc., etc., etc.
” You do not hear notable NBA observers saying that Jose Calderon’s horrid defense is to be blamed for the Raptors decline this season”
Khandor to a certain degree I agree, you are right. The decline of the Raptors cannot be completley based on jose’s defence but rather a multitude of things.
BUT
That being said here are some facts:
1. Jose has very slow feet defensivly in terms of a perimeter player espeically a PG in the NBA
2. If you watch game tape Jose often relies too heavily on the help
3. Jose does NOT have active hands
4. Jose has little or no defensive anticipation skills
5. Jose has trouble boxing his man out, mostly becuase quicker than him thus resulting in him not even having the oppertunity
6. Jose’s best defence for defending his mans 3 point shot is to clap his hands in his face. Instead if you watch game tape Jose could use the time he takes to clap his hands and instead run up to at least get 1, possibly 2 hands up
7. On off the ball screens or switches Jose has almost no defensive awareness. Teams know this thus run double screens specifcally on Jose where guys can slip through seemingly unnoticed
Now here is where these defensive troubles make a in game impact. When an opposing PG (Rondo) burns past Jose extremly easily these are the following plausible scenarios
A. Help comes from the wing therefore an opposing 3 point shooter is left WIDE open
B. Opposing PG Rondo burns past and gets an easy layup
C. Opposing PG Rondo burns past and takes mid range jumper with not defensive interference
D. Help comes from the forwards and an easy dump off to a center for a layup is possible
E. Opposing PG Rondo is not being able to be boxed out becuase he is already past Jose
F. Someone else has to take Rondo therefore leaving Jose in a matchup with a Sg/Sf
Khandoor, you know that I like to read your post but…
there is always the same flaw:
you start with the wrong assumption ( I remember a picture on your blog…)and based on that you make your argument, that can be discussed sometimes but based on untrue fact.
In this case you are assuming that someone else, that is not following the raptors is a better judge of the people that follow them daily.
THIS IS FALSE.
Then you proceed listing the argument that those people is making
and comment by your own
Sorry, any link to who those people are ? where they write they say something similar to what you write ?
I’ven’t seen any.
so, or you start backing up what you say other people is saying or just state that’s this is your view, its so easy.
And yes, some of the thing you believe are shareable, some other are dead wrong. :)
Arsenalist
Have to go with you on some of your points, but since repeating (like many Raptor games this season) is no fun, I’ll just focus on where my view differs.
AB (our starting Centre – key point) is 19.3 / 6.5 (Pts / RB) in 2009, when that magical metamorphosis started, and 17.5 & 6.2 when he’s been the Starter. Since Bargnani always gets shoved into a Dirk Nowitzki comparison, it’s only appropriate to compare the numbers, while trying to understand that EVERYONE would like a Dirk on their team.
In his 3rd year, Dirk was 21.8 & 9.2, after 2 full seasons of starting. If one was fair to that scenario, AB’s sophomore year might be considered a wasted year – no direction, and Smitch at the helm. Dirk’s 2nd year stats read 17.5 & 6.5, numbers that seem somewhat comparable to Andrea’s. One might say that’s not fair to compare 2nd year to 3rd year, but AB had many other factors to contend with – new country, language, plus a basketball league (NBA) that is easier to adapt to when you’re coming from the NCAA.
As for Ukic, I really wish he could’ve played 20 or so games in the D-League – maybe even a full season. For the life of me, I still can’t figure out why the NBA doesn’t promote the minor league concept. Baseball & Hockey have fine tuned a farm system that gives rookies the opportunity to hone their skills before showing up to the Big Game – why can’t basketball?
When it comes to Jose, it’s amazing how Raptor fan perceptions are like the proverbial toilet seat. One year he’s useless … can’t shoot. The next year he’s our Saviour (and TJ is a bumbling hog). The following year sees Hamstring Jose endure fan anger for his inability to be a one-legged hero. My real concern with Calderon – why is Jay playing him 34 – 35 minutes a game on a bum leg?
As for Pops, I think that’s a signing that will put a little shine on BC, amongst all the mud thrown at him. From what I hear, Pops should’ve been here sooner (in the NBA).
Pops – he was in the NBA with the Spurs.
Ukic – Nice guy, could be a decent player but I get a feeling you’ll find guys in the D-league and draft that who can do what he does.
AB – Not complaining about him, I think he’s miles ahead of where he was last year, just pointing out that we’re one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and our primary rebounding position gives us chump change. As I said in the Utah pre-game, if he becomes an Okur by year 5, I’d sign him to a 8-9 million deal. The Dirk comparison was laughable last year but in 2009 he’s shown a tendency to drive to the rim (baseline) and make sweeping drives down the middle of the paint which give me some hope that he can come someday come close to matching Dirk’s offense. He’s worth hanging on to, for now.
Jose – Was never a big fan. Always felt TJ lost the starting role more than Jose winning it. That Utah game last year was the low-point of TJ’s Raptor career. Jose had a good run in early 2008 when he was pushed into the starting role and took defenses by surprise when turning the corner off the screen or nailing that 18-footer. This year it hasn’t happened, maybe its injury or maybe its the scouting reports getting out but it’s just not working out and unless he’s hampered by injury, I don’t see how it can get better next year. To make matters worse, his defense has been so bad that I have to put him down as the #1 reason why this season went down the toilet.
Pops – I should’ve clarified his NBA “experience” – 12 games for Dallas, and 3 this year for the Spurs. I guess I just see 15 games as meaningless.
Jose – this is where I’m totally confused. Is he like Toskala? Lousy season and finally taken out, in order to deal with necessary (some say not) surgery? In Jose’s case, REST is what I think he needs. NO summer basketball either.
AB – I’m not sure his rebounding will get better, but as I recall, when JO was out, and Andrea was starting, the Raptors rebounding record improved. Some say this is attributed to drawing out his man (corresponding Centre). I’m no Stephen Ass Smith :-0 ,but that does seem logical.
Maybe I’m biased when it comes to Andrea. He hails from a country my ancestors do — part of the reason I’ve liked him since Day 1 — but as I once debated with another commentator, I really think he’s a smart ball player, with great skills – this was before he “broke out”. In time, I see experience helping the Rebound numbers, and other such issues that people seem to prey on. And others pray. :-0
My one real concern with the Raptors — this season being over — is Bosh. I really would like him to stay. But at the same time, what kind of salary will it take to keep him? Is he worth Max. Seems kind of unfair that Lebron will get it, and CB expects the same kind of treatment. Sorry, but under those circumstances I’m tempted to think we trade him. What affects teams, and this is irregardless of the luxury tax hit, is having contracts (ie. JO) that simply hamper a team’s ability to fill in with other good players — the ones who are worthy of a good contract.
I think that’s the biggest decision BC will have to make next year. Banks aside, Kapono .. whatever … these ‘what-to-do’ decisions pale in comparison to resigning Bosh. Pay too much, and we could have a JO (pre-Rap) on our hands. And for maybe 6 or 7 years. That’s the gamble BC will have on his hands, as next year rolls around.
Jose & Roko- Injuries, maybe, but he definitely lost his edge, and will not even go for the slightest contact in the paint, Fucking WUSSBAG! Notice how his 2nd and 3rd year were played so well? Who was on the team and even on the bench while injured? GARBO!!!!! I think Jose can never play his best without Garbo near him. Contract year Phenomena? maybe so as well, but this guy has lost himself totally. Now if you put Ukic and Calderon on the Alvin Gentry or Mike D’Antoni system, they will start running and racking up holy crap amount assists and points because of a system finally in place for them, no defense to worry about, and just plain decent coaching to yell at them to pass the ball no matter what the case is, even if it results in a turnover. I also feel he does not wanna make changes to his slow game and Triano has no balls to gamble and push Jose to run faster. Shut Down Jose, and let’s not make that contract he signed a total waste and an injury Jamaal Tinsely type of contract. If we need to prove that Ukic does not belong in the league, why don’t we play him starter’s minutes and tank us some more games? If he plays more energetic than Jose and keeps us away from tanking, well there is a reversal of expectations then….
AB- HE IS much better, but it is up to us to know what player we really want to be the big engine. He is winning me over Bosh now with his growing variety of attacks, subtle-crisp passing, and some shows of taunting the opponent and opening his inner Italian soccer player A-hole prick irritation tricks. Bargs body might be soft, but his mind is not soft at all. I think he needs a new moral leader and captain to encourage that he should always be a prick to the opposition either win or lose.
Pops- if he wins himself a low 1 year extension, I guess you can try him out some more and light a fire under Humphries ass. Still has McHale’s dirty finger prints on him claiming he was a waste of a draft pick from the Timberwolves. !xobile !!!!
I agree that fan perceptions are like the proverbial toilet seat and (perhaps this is due to the nature of forums like these) people seem to be focusing on the toilet seat being all the way up or all the way down, when it fact it lies somewhere in between (directly in the urine stream, mind you, but there nonetheless).
My feeling is that these “discussions” often get hijacked by people with untenable, extreme positions.
Any comparisons of Chris Bosh and Bill Russel are absurd. Any comparison of Jose Calderon to a list of hall-of-famers or potential hall-of-famers, including John Stockton, is also absurd. On the flip side Jose is not useless, he is a legit NBA point guard with deficiencies on the defensive end and in an up-tempo style (the extent these deficiencies can currently be blamed on a hamstring injury is pure conjecture – unless the Raps trainer decides to post). Chris Bosh is a great, young big who may-or-may-not have almost reached his potential and who probably needs to be the “number 2″ guy (this is not a continuation of the toilet reference) if he wants to play for a great team.
In my opinion, both players could be part of a winning team, provided it was constructed correctly to address their strengths and weaknesses, and both players could be traded for valuable pieces if the teams gets “blown up”. However, and this is why I side with blowing this team up, it would be difficult to get a number 1/franchise guy in Toronto (except via the draft, in which case you’re looking to become relevant in 4-5 years anyways).
name five starting point guards that are worse than Jose.
bibby, a.miller, felton etc. are considered questionable.
only absolutely worse.
my friend and i had a difficult time thinking of five pguards that are for certain…
we thought of 13 pgs that are definitley better.
You say “are better”. I say “have had a better year”.
Here’s already looking forward to next season’s challenges.
Have we beaten the record for most 5 game losing streaks in a season yet?
Why am I happy when we lose these days, and cheering for the Knicks and Golden State to win, so we can go from a 2.8% chance of winning the lottery to 4.3% !!!??
I supported the Marion trade at first, but wow, were you guys ever right…that Banks deal is looking downright ugly, and he better get to know Bosh, cause he’ll be getting traded with him, that the only way I see “the Golden Child” getting rid of him.
Banks and his contract is like a malignant tumor financially now. Doesn’t look bad, but through the months you see it get worse and hurting your flexibility and long term goals.
Tarun,
Instead of counter-punching on each of your points … How about I just do this instead?
1. We do not share the same perspective on Calderon’s defensive performance when watching him play this season.
2. When you look at the way Calderon has played in certain games this season, like the one at Chicago [which the Raptors won] …
To what do you attribute his good performance?
IMO, when a solid player like Calderon performs in an erratic manner over a wide stretch of games that speaks to at least two possible scenarios:
* A possible deficiency in coaching and/or management, which dictates style of play, gameplans, and specific strategies & techniques, while enforcing individual accountability amongst its workforce
* A possible injury which is NOT being managed properly
At the pro level, if a player is not performing as he should there is no valid reason for failing to shut him down … i.e. either, when: [i] the coach says, “Have a seat”, permanently, or semi-permanently, because you’re not doing what you’re being asked/told to do the way it NEEDS to be done, OR [ii] the training staff says, “Have a seat”, because you are REALLY injured.
Pro teams pay BIG Money to Top Notch players to do a specific job. It’s the GM’s job to find players and coaches and other staff members who can get get the job done. Period.
SRB,
One of the difficulties with message boards is the NEED for those who perceive themselves to be somewhere in the middle on an issue to assert that those at either end of the continuum MUST, be definition, be incorrect in their respective points of view … when in fact, this need not be the case at all.
What others might think to absurd today could well prove to be valid with the shift of time and distance [valuable commodities in basketball and life], which relates directly with perspective, depending upon what & where that extreme landing point was, in the first place.
As one example:
Before I said that Anthony Parker SHOULD function as thr Back-up PG for this year’s team, I read from no one else, on this site or elsewhere that this was indeed a feasible alternative for the Raptors.
There were two extreme perspectives:
One – I was WRONG.
Two – I was RIGHT.
There was one in-the-middle perspective:
Three – AP might be able to do a mediocre job in a pinch but can’t possibly sustain his play working in that role for this team.
Now … if you can, please go ahead and tell me, Which two of those three perspectives was REALLY absurd, when I said/wrote what I wrote this past summer?
Posting with caps is considered by many to be rude and please learn to use the “reply” function…
sorry dude, but just because AP has played the point, doesn’t mean it’s a viable alternative, just that the OTHER alternatives have been so absolutely shitty, it was important they have someone who could dribble the ball up the floor without wetting himself.
i’m all for conceding that you’re right in that AP can play some point, in spurts, against specific opposition. then again, i look at their won/loss record, and wonder if it matters at all. has him playing the point only served to slow ukic’s development? there’s obviously been no benefit to the team…the only guy who’s benefited at all is AP, who may have found a little niche as a vet 1/2 in this league, and may be able to extend his career another few seasons.
d279,
Strictly FYI … Chris Bosh isn’t even CLOSE to being the player I think is the best right now in the NBA, nor someone I would ever choose to represent in a contract negotiation. I just happen to think that CB4 is good at what he does, properly understood; nothing more and nothing less than that. : )
If the Raptors choose to trade him, it would be perfectly fine with me, depending on which assets were coming back to Toronto, in return.
Without mentioning any other players,has bosh ever done anything wrong this year on the court,because after reading your comments,this guy walks on water…its always on someone else.
i can dig that…but i think thats where most rational people are at with the team..and that has been the progression (regression?) this season…holding both in a much higher regard has since turned into “ok with trading them for valuable assets”.
above all…i would love for this season to be much more of a fluke…jose comes back at what we hope is 100% as well as a willingness to be more agro (its obvious that he listens and is hard on himself judging the look on his face during this slump and even attempting to get the ball to marion and take the ball to the cup yesterday), chris gets his confidence back, and andrea puts more effort into being a better rebounder/fits into the TEAM better.
i like jose and bosh and i think theyre good character guys who have played better when their teammates were better….
more than ever i think it falls on BC to put a GREAT coach around them and to be very frugal and smart with the mediocre amount of cap space and the mediocre draft pick we will have.
of the last two seasons jose, chris, and andrea have each had 1 up season, and 1 really down season (both ups for chris statistically)
im willing to give each an offseason to get recharged and try to fix whats broken…but if the season gets off on the wrong foot without showing any promise especially from the coach (i.e. bobcats) than soon after it would be time to clean house…and NO ONE should be overlooked.
its the toronto raptors…not the toronto bosh or the toronto bargnani.
… and, the exact same thing goes for Jose Calderon. : )
You are still a douche bag.
ok… i just wanna say, i dont like how this site always makes
fun of Roko Ukic. Sure he is not that good, but with time he can be a very great player, i do think toronto fan’s overrated him alot, but he is
trying to learn and as of right his D is so much better then Jose’s
so just give him some time…
peace
P.S i love this site… speaks the truth
Tottaly agree…Rookie point guard for shure isn´t among bigger problems of this team.In my opinion he showed a lot under the circumstances and he will become a very good player in nba surroundings no matter what some people think.Although he did deserve critics, just not in that amount.
Ok. Here is how I see it. We have no overall concept of team defense. The players look and act lost. For example, we double on everything, usually for no reason, and then we blame the rotation for not being fast enough. If we didn’t sag on everything, and double down on everything, we wouldnt have to rotate out for no reason.
Because most of the doubles are unnecessary, most of the time the rotater shouldn’t have been(earlier in the season) expecting to need to rotate.
Because we double on everything in the paint, that leaves offense rebounders continuously free. Even if we allowed opponents to shoot %3 better in the paint, due to not doubling everything, we’d make it up in second chance points we didn’t concede easily.
This is not new. The Raptors have been doubling in this fashion since the 90′s. The difference is last year, and the year before, our offense was unstoppable on the pick and roll, and we steamrolled teams with offensive execution, while our defense was “getting by”
This year, our pick and roll has not clicked, we haven’t steamrolled anyone except for a couple of hot shooting nights, and instead we’ve been victimized by long cold stretches, especially when teams turn up the defensive intensity, typically in the fourth quarter, but we’ve seen it happen in the first, in the second, start of the third.
TJ Ford, when healthy, was not only a monster on the pick and roll, but he was also a stone cold killer in terms of mentality. Being up 10 wasn’t enough for TJ, he wanted to be up 30. That clearly rubbed off, and we kept after it and put teams away. This years team has none of that. We get up by 10-15 in almost every game, then start coasting.
In fact, we coast all the time. Its like we think basketball is easy, and wins are ours by divine right.
Once again great post Arse!
Seeten I couldn’t agree with you more. I was fooled by Calderon last year and it made me think TJ was the problem. Sure, TJ was reckless down the stretch but how valueable was he on this team? I think we can all see that now. All the unnecessary doubles all start from the point of attack. Plus, TJ has the swagger. If only we kept him and did a sign and trade with Calderon instead. But what’s done is done.
If Bosh tells us he won’t resign this offseason. We should trade him for a good package. Then sign David Lee to fill his role.
Even though were messed up now B.C. can fix it.
SRB,
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re: Posting with caps is considered by many to be rude and please learn to use the “reply” function…
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* I don’t use the “reply” function because the “reply” function does NOT exist in the Regular comments mode which I use to read and post comments on this site.
* HOW & WHAT I WRITE ON A REGULAR BASIS INSN’T PROPERLY TERMED “POSTING WITH CAPS”. Posting with caps is what the previous sentence looks like. What & how I write, on occasion, is termed “unorthodox capitalization of specific words”. These are not the same thing.
Why don’t you switch to Thread comments mode? Please do.
because then he’d be like everyone else.
LOL
Shut up
Desperate Ratpor tribal honking fans think that Pops is a diamond in the rough and should be immediately signed up to a juicy contract to keep him in Toronto … after all he epitomizes the fans delusions of rising up and making the team themselves … and they want to keep this delusion alive through Pops the underdog rising.
What about all those coaches and assistant coaches evaluating Pops and deciding he is deficient in NBA skills … are they all wrong and the honking fans are right because they know a winner when they see one … and they want their hotdog and Pops ….???!!!!
I tried to carefully watch Pops in the last two games and I came away with the impression the guy is deficient on defence when it comes to guarding his man. He just stands there oblivious of what is happening around him. Yes he compensates by snagging a big rebound or two that gets the fans honking … but maybe, just maybe he is a neanderthal on defence … low bball IQ maybe …????!!!!!
Q?) What’s the equivalent of a Raps fans who thinks Pops is a dimond in the rough?
A!) A Leafs fan who thinks whatever 6th round draft pick from 2005 who gets called up from the minors at the tail end of the season and plays a few good shifts in meaningless games, is going to have a significant role on the team the following season.
Raps fans are starting to resemble Leafs fans.
(This is aweful because this is what is happening to Raps fans who’ve now suffered through a consistent history of mediocrity).
d279,
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re: Without mentioning any other players,has bosh ever done anything wrong this year on the court,because after reading your comments,this guy walks on water…its always on someone else.
———————————
IMO, Bosh does plenty wrong each and every game. He is far from perfect. When he’s being used improperly, however, it makes it extremely difficult to levy proper criticism in his direction.
i.e. A round peg in a square hole should not be lambasted for having only smooth edges, and lacking 8 pointed corners.
i wonder…if bosh were asked if he preferred to play the 4 or 5, i wonder what he’d say? i’d be shocked if he saw himself the way you view him (as a defensive/rebound-oriented under-sized but quick/athletic 5).
I would try an make Bosh a 6th man on an NBA team, just to see how it makes him react and play.
Lets talk about our offense.
We don’t pass the ball. We’re stagnant, we have no one who will drive and kick. Bargnani will drive, but will not kick, same thing with Bosh. Calderon won’t drive at all this year. I hope it *is* his hamstring, because I loved him last year. He got into defenses, he kicked it out, he got everyone involved, and that created unselfishness. This year he dribbles down, and passes to a jumpshooter, who shoots. If he makes 25 of those passes a game, clearly 10 are going in, and thats 10 assists of the lamest sort.
We all know we need a slasher at the wing, but what we’re really missing is an engine that makes the offense click. TJ was that last year, and so was Calderon, but this year our offense is selfish, Bosh and Bargnani do not create anything for anyone but themselves, and Calderon does mostly nothing.
Chris Bosh is a very weak passer, particularly out of double teams. He doesn’t find the open man, and because we don’t have anyone that looks for cutters, nobody cuts.
If you are going to be less than athletic, I’d hope you’d make up for it with work ethic, and smarts, but folks, that has not been the 2009 Toronto Raptors Basketball club.
nailed it pretty well…
i agree on ALL points.
bargnani needs to create and pass more…especially because we are all starting to understand just how much he can score…but he should really look for his teammates..especially after the first quarter when he’s already carried the scoring load and the offense begins to get complacent…
my only concern is that he is a bit too flashy and unpredictable with his passing…i would assume that if he became more comfortable sharing, he would improve and the players wouldnt look so surprised/caught off guard when they do get the ball.
i will admit last year i loathed tj…he seemed like he would play 3 great team oriented quarters and then come the fourth he was out to “get his”…and i always thought his d was a little suspect and he sometimes appeared to be a worse teammate than delfino.
but its hard to argue his drive/aggressiveness.
There is coaching that can make Bargnani and Bosh better, but we all can tell our shit system has no balls to call a timeout and tell the players in the right way to run a certain set of offense or defense. I believe Mitchell was a good talker and drill-sargeant, but his plays, subs/matchups, attention to detail, and actual assertiveness to adjustments were 10% hit and 90% miss out of timeouts and during play-time. Triano is the same thing, but without the drive in his talk (when he talks, he sounds like, Dum dum dum dee dum dum dum dum dee dum dum, like a funny drum you can’t take seriously).
jonesy,
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khandor you absolutely crack me up..have you played basketball at an elite level? or have you talked to elite level teams all over the world and asked them who’s responsibility it is to initiate the switch?
i have read a bunch of your posts and you always tell people to back up what they say. so i’m giving u the opportunity to support this claim (or as you put it…fact).
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If you can identify for me even a single Elite Level coach anywhere in the world who says that it’s the Original Ball Defender’s responsibility to initiate the Switch Sequence vs a Pick & Roll/Pop Action then I will gladly acknowledge that the specific claim of fact which I’ve made in this instance happens to be wrong.
All you’ve got to do is find 1. Can you do that? : )
[Hint: Email any NBA Head Coach, NCAA Head Coach, EuroLeague Head Coach, CIS Head Coach, or anybody else you can think of, and ask that person if s/he disagrees with what I wrote about that specific responsibility. If the answer you get back is "yes" then simply send that email reply to Raptors Republic and they will ensure that it's forwarded to me. I will then acknowledge that what I said was wrong, without further explanation. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time; and, if I'm right, it won't be the first time for that either.]
It is hilarious jonesy asked you to back up your claim, as he was under the impression you always ask people to back up what they say, and you responded by asking him to back up what he said…
Anyways, when the on-the-ball defender is trying to fight over/through a screen, and the other defender is “showing” to the ball handler to slow him down, it is the on-the-ball defender’s responsibility to call for the switch if he gets caught up in the screen.
SRB,
What’s hilarious is that you might think I would try to respond to a query like the one which jonesy raised with something other than what I did. Perhaps you need to review what I did exactly and what I asked jonesy to do, instead, again.
I cannot possibly answer jonesy’s query appropriately, to any degree of satisfaction, while s/he can in fact respond in-kind to mine. There’s a difference there, my friend. : )
==========================
If, instead, however, what jonesy would really like me to do, is send that email query of his myself to a single Elite Level Coach anywhere in the world, to see if s/he agrees with my perspective on the matter THEN I can gladly agree to undertake that task and then report back to you with the feedback I receive.
Either way is fine with me. : )
————————–
re: what you said about a situation where the Original Ball Defender has the task of Fighting Over the Pick, gets hung up, and then is forced to call for “Help” from the Pick Defender … unfortunately, for you, that’s a different situation entirely.
i.e. That’s referred to as an “Emergency Response” when the initial scheme … in that instance, involving a Defensive Action that called for “NO Switch” at all … has, in fact, failed already.
SRB,
Maybe it will help, if I break down further the exact sequence you’ve outlined instead, with the specific responsibilities involved?
Show & Recover on the Pick
Picker’s Defender
1. Initiate the “Show” Defense, if the Ball Handler attempts to use the Pick, No matter what [there are no excuses allowed].
2. Stay on the Ball Handler until the Original Ball Defender Arrives, calls you off, and is in the process of re-positioning himself to be able to contain the dribble-drive of the Original Ball Handler, No matter what [there are no excuses allowed].
3. Recover back to your original check [or anonther offensive player, depending on the designated rotation in use vs that specific action] ONLY once you’ve been called off by the Original Ball Defender, No matter what [there are no excuses allowed].
Original Ball Defender
1. Get OVER the Pick, No matter what [there are no excuses allowed].
2. Call off the Picker’s Defender who is in the process of “Showing”
If the Original Ball Defender gets hung up while Going Over on the Picker then there is no NEED for the Original Ball Defender to call “Switch”, as it’s the JOB of the Picker’s Defender to stay the course with the Original Ball Handler until s/he hears the “Call Off” by the Original Ball Defender … which, in this specific instance is Never Coming, according to this specific scenario [i.e. he is hung up on the Picker, and is not capable of getting back to the Original Ball Handler].
————————————————————————
Note: While this two-man defensive action is happening it is perfectly allowable that a third defensive player located on the Original Ball Side of the Floor shifts over, into the lane, to provide additional Help to the Original Ball Defender who, in this Emergency Situation must Communicate with the Picker’s Defender that the Original Defensive Action HAS NOW BEEN ABANDONED and that he [the Original Ball Defender will NEED to remain on the Picker while the Picker’s Defender will NEED to remain fixed on the Original Ball Handler.
————————————————————————
Although, I could always be wrong in my interpretation of these events.
Important to note, however, the Raptors do not speak, call out, or otherwise communicate on defense.
Quiet, douche
Khandor,
This clears things up tremendously. As for you being wrong about the interpretation of events, I highly doubt it, due to your high BASKETBALL ACUMEN. In this regard, you are similar to a blogging version of the Great Bill Russell…
So here are a couple of questions that I’m gonna throw out there for no reason at all other than that I’m bored.
1. What’s your (realistic) best case scenario for turning Shawn Marion into someone useful?
2. Let’s say the Raps get freaky lucky and grab the #1 pick. You have to take Griffin, so who do you move: Bosh or Bargs?
Bargs isn’t going anywhere. Oh, I guess that leaves Bosh.
Shawn Marion is what he is. He’s not getting any better or worse. If we play running style with a real PG he’ll be fine, if not then we have to sign and trade him. Or let him walk and try to sign Marvin Williams.
number 1 should be:
1. Starting 5 that is not even competitive at this level.
What happened to this team? it’s the same core of players(Bosh, calderon,Parker and Bargnani) that have been playing together last 3 years and they look like headless chickens this season.
btw the “future” is the only good thing that happened this season in limited drops of court time.
Khandor-You are still a douche bag.
Agreed. A born idiot.
Khandor-
Anyone can copy and paste information which is what you do in regards to your basketball false knowledge.
When you say that Bosh is a Center then you really are a lost cause kid. Name me one center he has overpowered and dominated in his career?
Brendan Haywood
Also your screwed when the general manager is more concerned with cheap character players and no ounce of defense, heart, passion, rebounding, guts etc. NO continuity with his teams. You sign/trade players only trade them away a year later.
You want a running team ? So you trade away the fastest PG in the League and keep a no defense/no heart/soft Jose Calderon ? OK.
You scout players in Australia and Egypt or w/e for proven talent ignoring the NCAA? ok
Why hire an assistant GM with no NBA Experience? Why not a hire a former player or coach as your right hand man since they have some in game experience?
JO’s contract will get you either 20 mill in capspace or 1-2 decent players by the offseason or the trade deadline next season. Miami is set for the future. Why take on Banks BTW ?
Roy was the best player available so you pick a soft non rebounding player from Italy? ok. You picked him because he was Italian not for any other reason.
This guy is a disaster
Khandor shut up. You know nothing about the game.
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Khandor-
Anyone can copy and paste information which is what you do in regards to your basketball false knowledge. – by JP
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You think THAT was a copy & paste?
LOL, LOL, LOL … : )
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because then he’d be like everyone else. – by yertu
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If everyone else switched BACK to the Regular mode … which is how things ran on Arsenalist’s old blog, and how it runs on many of the other really good NBA fan blogs that I know of …
Do YOU think I would keep working here in Regular mode, or Switch to Threaded mode because everyone else is using Regular mode?
If so, then, I’d have to say: You SHOULD Guess, again. : )
It really is quite amazing just HOW wrong some people’s understanding of a situation can be from time to time.
——————————————-
i wonder…if bosh were asked if he preferred to play the 4 or 5, i wonder what he’d say? i’d be shocked if he saw himself the way you view him (as a defensive/rebound-oriented under-sized but quick/athletic 5). – by yertu
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In fact … I’d be prepared to wager a fair chunk of my own hard-earned $$$ that his answers would approximate these:
1. I’ll play whatever position I need to play just so long as we can WIN.
1A. Nawh, but, seriously, Man … it’s pretty difficult banging with the big boys in this league, night-in and night-out, in the Low Post for a player of my size. I think I’m able to succeed at either position; it’s more a matter of where the team [i.e. the coaching staff] “thinks” it needs me most. It doesn’t really matter to me where I play. But, it is easier to play the #4/PF spot in this league, night-in and night-out.
2. I prefer to play the #4/PF spot, if given the choice.
How a player actually perceives himself is such a function of the type of coaching s/he has received to that point in her/his athletic life, it can never be over-estimated just HOW important THAT relationship is with the way in which a player develops long term, or not … and the specific position s/he gradually comes to realize is the BEST one for both her/himself and the team s/he plays for.
Very witty Arse …. nicely done.
http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/raptors-republic-top-ten-signs-your-team-isn-t-very-good-6957.html
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