All hands on deck!One of the most annoying and frustrating aspects of this season for me has to be the defense – or lack thereof – we’ve played. Our inability to defend key sets and correct our defensive mistakes has resulted in us becoming a habitually bad defensive team which often makes us painful to watch. The lack of athleticism was a problem from day one which according to Mitchell would be overcome by playing smart and sound team basketball. However, things didn’t work out as individual players kept getting exposed and the team wasn’t the well-oiled machine that it needed to be to mitigate constant individual defeat.
Some of the defensive problems have resulted from pure lack of ability while others are a result of the defensive system and principles carved into our playbook. Things that we need to work on for next year:
Have you heard of this crazy play called the pick ‘n roll? We’re possibly the worst team when it comes to playing “hedge and recover” when defending the PNR. Usually the pick results in two defenders dealing with the ball handler leaving the pick-setter open to roll or pop-out at his discretion. If not that, then the Raptor guard will not fight through the pick and expect a stronger hedge from the pick-setter’s man only to be let down, resulting in a clear path to the rim for the ball-handler. The third way to mess this is up is by going under the screen on a shooter conceding the ball-handler an open shot while also giving him the option to drive since the would-be hedger is in no-man’s land. Under Mitchell it was bad, under Triano it’s worse.
You don’t need me to help but I’ll do it anyway: I’m looking at Anthony Parker on this one. He’s by far the worst when it comes to sagging off his man on the weak side to help on nobody in particular. His doubles are unnecessary, weak and to this day I haven’t figured out whether it’s a particular strategy deployed by the coaching staff or just Parker freestyling. This was a problem under Mitchell and Triano so I’m thinking Parker’s got more to do with it than the coaching. The Orlando series was a prime example of how susceptible we are when we’re doubling without reason and this season has been a less severe extension of that series. It’s like there’s a steady magnetic force in the paint which Parker is drawn towards.
Where did my man go? This one’s just sheer stupidity. If your man is moving away from you around the semi-circle of the three-point line or away from the baseline toward the arc, you have to follow him. We just saw this phenomenon against Houston on Tuesday as Carl Landry and Von Wafer didn’t need to do anything special to get open. Their defenders were busy ball-watching and just lost track of their individual assignments. Inexcusable and unexplainable.
Dribble Penetration: Problem #1 with the Raptors. With Jose Calderon always ranging somewhere in the 70-90% health range this has often been excused by the Toronto media but this corner says even when he’s at 110% it’s a problem. How do we fix this? There’s no fix because it comes down to quickness, athletic ability and lateral movement, all things that start declining at Jose’s age. The best the Raptors can hope to do is to make quick interior rotations and try to mitigate the penetration. It didn’t happen this year because O’Neal, Bosh, Bargnani and Parker/Kapono were out-of-sync with each other and never figured out who’s to help in which scenario. Chalk this one down to bad coaching. People like to crap on Roko a lot but his defensive ability exceeds Calderon by a mile. If Bargnani, Bosh and Marion would becomes consistent scoring threats Triano would be more comfortable in giving up offense for defense and playing Roko meaningful minutes. Jose’s hardly the only person to blame, though, Parker and Kapono (also Moon) were equally guilty and that’s also reason #1 why neither of those two should play a major (any?) role next season.
Oh wait, you mean I have to worry about someone other than my man? The rotations needed once we allow dribble-penetration or are forced to double have usually been crisp early and decline considerably as the game goes on. This to me speaks about our conditioning and mental state. The most hated sight for me is when a player realizes two seconds too late that he’s supposed to rotate out to a wing and will dejectedly walk over with his arms lifted halfway. It’s not a shot-contest, it’s not a close-out, it’s trash. In his short time here, Marion has shown that he can “be two places at once” with his defense – challenge the paint while still be in good position to cover his man on the wing. Asking Kapono and Parker to do the same is probably unfair but seeing how often we need to provide help it almost becomes mandatory for our wings to be able to have the court awareness of Marion.
Man-Defense: I’d rank the top three man-defenders on the Raptors like so: #1) Shawn Marion #2) Andrea Bargnani #3) Joey Graham. Jermaine O’Neal gets an honorable mention. Remember, we’re talking about individual man-up defense here, if we were talking about help I’d kick Bargnani down to the bottom of the pile. Bargnani’s learned that a 7-footer doesn’t have to leave his feet and can play on his toes against most big men and still do a good enough job of contesting. I think he’s shown a marked improvement this year and has had good defensive stretches against Yao, Nowtizki and even Howard. Just like the rest of the Raptors, his defense gets a lot worse later in the game but as I already said, that comes down to conditioning. Chris Bosh’s defense has been disappointing, I expected him to be more forceful with his ball-denials, fronting and general block-space battles but he’s constantly conceding position on the defensive end while being unable to get that position on the offensive side.
We forced a miss, possession over! No wait… We’re third worst in the league and a lot has to do with Andrea Bargnani playing 31+ minutes at the center position and averaging only 5.4 rebounds. Of the 27 center ranked by ESPN he is second-worst in PER48 rebounding. I wish it were as simple as that, you have to factor in the chaos that is caused by dribble-penetration which results in us trying to provide frenzied help while conceding rebounding position.
Here are some stats:
- Rebounding: 3rd worst at 39.35 RPG.
- Rebounding differential: 5th worst at -3.03.
- Steals: 2nd worst at 6.16 SPG.
- Opponents PPG: 11th worst at 101.04 PPG.
- Opponents 3PT %age: 10th worst at 37.4%.
- Opponents FG %age: 10th worst at 46.1%.
- Record when opponent scores 100+: 7-27, 20.6%. 6th worst.
Any other possible areas of improvement? Your thoughts on the issue are welcome.
66 Raps
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-86988514504540_2039_17525974
Send one of those to Doug Smith and say your serious. His head will explode
You’re far to harsh on Parker man. He he’s lost a step but he is still a quality defender and player.
I believe that the raptors poor rebounding numbers, especially Bosh and Bargnani’s are misleading. They’re low because of the number of time they have to go help and contest a layup by a guard, leaving the weak-side open for an offensive rebound. Also, there seems to be a lack of communication, because to often both B’s are dragged away to go contest the same shot, with neither there to help secure the rebound.Too bad it would be nigh on impossible to snag Joel Przybilla.
I read on ESPN that Pops Mensah-Bonsu will be signing on with the Raptors in some way shape or form now that he’s been released from the Spurs following their pursuit of Drew Gooden. I have no idea what this guy is all about but he averaged 26/13 and some blocks for the Spurs D-league affiliate, so hopefully he’ll shore up a weak spot.
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I believe that the raptors poor rebounding numbers, especially Bosh and Bargnani’s are misleading. They’re low because of the number of time they have to go help and contest a layup by a guard, leaving the weak-side open for an offensive rebound.
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Yes and no. Bargnani is truly a terrible rebounder. When the shot goes up one of two things need to happen; a) force your man on to your back and box/upset his balance such that he is in a poor position for a rebound or b) go towards the rim, timing the shot (a la Marion or Bosh). Bargnani does neither and until he does both his and the teams rebounding numbers will suffer.
On the help issue, It’s as if Triano has a game plan and can’t adjust to his personnel. Calderon gets a lot of flack, and while he should it’s obvious when watching he’s being told to funnel his man into the middle. This may make some sense if there is a good defender waiting there but Bargs help defense is terrible and Bosh’s isn’t much better.
I agree that Barg’s man on man defense is quite good, but he is constantly being asked to do something he is not good at, which is hurting the team.
I’ve said it before, based on the personnel available, the Raps have to give some space to the opposing point and let him shoot. If he kills the Raps so be it, but at least the other guys can be contained by their defenders and we won’t be constantly switching into uncontested layups. For most teams the Point isn’t the first shooting option so it’s better him getting looks than the preferred scorers.
pops is an enigma type, but hes an improvement of what we got on the bench right now
I’ve never even heard of this guy, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say he will outplay Bosh in his minutes off the bench. You heard it here first!
any chance we can convince Houston to take Chris Bosh for Luis Scola and Ron Artest (via sign & trade)?
man, i miss Oak.
Its like beating a dead horse when talking about these guys. You can disect the X’s and O’s of the game all you want but lets be real, they lose because collectively they don’t put up a sustained effort for an entire game. Changing strategies and sets won’t do jack if the guys in the jerseys play the games like they are running practice drills.
Arsenalist,
In this specific entry you’re beginning to touch on an important topic which has yet to receive the proper treatment by the media and the Raptors fanbase, IMO.
If a NBA team, like the Raptors, has issues/concerns with its Defense and Rebounding effectiveness … then:
Q1. How does it go about solving these two problems properly?
A1. I can tell you this much …
i. What it should NOT do is trade a player like Rasho Nesterovic [PF-C], buy out a player like Jorge Garbajosa [PF-C-SF] and not re-sign a player like Carlos Delfino [G-F], each of whom was a solid Defender and Rebounder on their team the preceding season, when the team was IN FACT mediocre-to-poor, in these specific phases of the game.
ii. Secondly, neither will just returning some of those same cast-offs be the successful remedy for the Raptors’ ails, in these two phases of the game … as what THAT will do is only return to a similar level of production in these phases to what existed during the 2007-2008 season, which was mediocre-to-poor, in the first place.
When a NBA team cannot Defend and Rebound well enough to perform at a High End level, then, it NEEDS to exchange some of its Perceived strength on Offense for ADDITIONAL Defense and Rebounding. – NBA 101 Handbook, p. 62 : )
Now, when you look at the Raptors’ current roster …
Which players do YOU SEE with a “perceived strength” at the Offensive End of the floor?
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PS. It’s far from being Rocket Science but it really isn’t that diffucult a task … as long as someone’s EGO isn’t what’s actually driving the [mis-guided-?] ship.
I knew it, you’re a fucking handbook with jockstrap for a nose. Explains everything.
You suggest to sell Bargs for Rasho ? ;)
Rasho was a alright big, he did the job well enough for bosh to score and TJ to move around,
Jorge was damaged goods, it understandable why he was waived but his talent and experience that he shared with raptors is soemthing i greatly missed and can’t be related to the current rooster
probably yhe biggest dissapointment is not resigning Carlos, he played good, got the open J when he could and can grab the rebounds,
But it doesnt matter now, we have Marion, he can do all of thar then mentioned players, and unless we get a new coaching staff, then we can utilized the very little talent and try to develop the little propects we have on the team
and if MLSE spend less time doing bs with the leafs and more time investing in the Raptors then we can sign bettter players, the 09 free agency is promising
There is a lot of room for improvement for 09-10 season, I can’t wiat to see that, but if it ends up like this agian, then truely its the management fault
yeah yeah, we get it, trade bargnani. welcome to the club. unfortunately, a few things work against that idea:
a) BC won’t do it (the EGO part of your comment, no doubt);
b) he IS a significant part of their offense. unless he’s replaced by a solid defensive/rebounding wing who can also be a significant scoring option, it’s a lose-lose;
c) it’s questionable whether his current salary is high enough to draw the kind of quality player required in b) – can you see a wing who fits the mold described above being available, but who’s also earning a very reasonable salary? or is this another ‘trade TJ for rodney carney’ scenario?
d) it’s questionable whether his perceived value on the market is high enough to warrant a GM giving back a scoring/rebounding/defensive-minded wing (with a good contract) for a him;
e) bargs’ defensive abilities, while certainly mediocre overall, have shown sufficient improvement that he may well become an average to above-average defender. his rebounding will always be below average relative to his physical stature & position. good thing he’s got a stalwart defender/rebounder beside him in bosh.
khan – in your proposed ‘best’ lineups for the raps (bosh, marion, joey, AP & jose, if memory serves)…how do they defend against teams with a 5 who has legit size/strength? we know bosh, a finesse player by your accounts, isn’t physically capable of matching up with the likes of dwight, yao, shaq (few are), but i question, at this stage of his career, whether he’s even capable of defender 5’s who aren’t considered big, power guys. his D on scola the other day left a little to be desired, no?
Why trade Bargs when Bosh is going to leave after next year. That leave the team with absolutely no bigs.
Just look at the Heat, they’ve committed to defense – look at where its got them. D wins period! Unless the Raptors make that commitment this franchise will just be about selling tickets and putting bums in the seats, by simply drafting european players to capitalize on the diversity of the t.dot.
whoever voted that the raptors would win 12-15 games of the remaining 20 should be beat, bound, gagged, sodomized, shot and burried outside the acc.
Pretty sure that was Colangelo himself.
Maybe you didn’t notice, but an equal number of people thought they were going to win 16-20 games.
Actually looking at Bargs’ Reb/48 minutes is a bit of a misleading stat when talking about defense since it also includes offensive rebounds where he is near the bottom of the centres (considering he spends a lot of his time on offense on the perimiter (Surprisingly he averages more offensive rebs than Rasheed). His defensive rebounding numbers put him at 16th so around the middle of the league. I think that isn’t terrible so you’re going to have to point the finger somewhere else when talking about our poor defense in terms of rebounding.
POPEYE Jones
PAPE Sow
POPS Mensah-Bonsu
OUR NEXT HEAD COACH IS GREG POPOVICH
SO SAYETH THE PROPHECY
The pophecy?
haha awesome.
re: “NBA 101 Handbook, p.62″
The difference between literal and figurative language shouldn’t be THAT difficult to understand. : )
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yertu,
There’s an assortment of Strategies & Tactics which can succeed with a base line-up that has …
Calderon/1 + Parker/2 + Graham/3 + Marion/4 + Bosh/5
on the court together for extended PT, when faced with the task of Defending and Rebounding against the likes of Shaq, D12, Yao Ming and, to a certain extent, TD … each of whom is different in his own way.
In general, a key to off-setting the full prowess of a dominant player is rarely employing “just ONE” single way of doing something, as part of what actually makes a player dominant, in the first place, is his/her ability to “adjust” successfully in response to a variety of different situations/actions/techniques and to pick out his/her own “attack spots” carefully [i.e. with a high degree of accuracy, relative to "ordinary" players].
At this level of competition, where the players are, in fact, THAT good … It’s getting the Right Mix which is most important vs a dominant player.
yertu,
re: Bosh vs Scola
1. Scola is a Power Forward for the Rockets not their Center. Who was Houston’s Center on those possessions when Scola dominated Bosh? As I’ve said countless times before, Bosh has has his hands full defending a whole lot of the Top Tier PF’s in the NBA [because he is not a dominant PF himself].
2. In the parts of that game which I saw it was more the case of Andrea Bargnani who was abused by Mr. Scola on specific possessions than it was exclusively Chris Bosh.
[which is not to say that Bosh may not have also been made to look foolish by Luis from time-to-time only that, as I was jumping back-and-forth between viweing different games and other activities, as well, these possessions were not what I saw on my screen or in footage after-the-fact]
3. Unfortunately, at the moment … everything Chris Bosh [and to a certain extent, Jose Calderon, as well] does on the court is mitigated by the exact status of his injury, which despite what Bosh and the club is saying publically STILL does NOT look even 90% healthy to me.
Over the course of his career, when Chris Bosh is 100% healthy he does not play with a brace on his knees.
You know you are in tough when your supposed franchise player has to be defended vigourously for his performances against the likes of Scola. I really hope we give him the max and continue to talk about how dominating he is at the ‘5′ spot (so long as, you know, he’s not playing anybody good – like Shaq or Howard. Then its probably better if he moves back to the ‘4′).
i’d have to go back & check the tape for who was on the rocket’s C when bosh was D’ing scola. bargs, when he was in the game at the same time as yao, was on him. when bargs was out (replaced by jake – yuck), yao abused him (jake); there were only a few possessions in which bosh was iso’d on yao, and he basically handled him the same he did shaq last friday. off the top of my head, i can’t remember specific situations in which bargs was iso’d on scola, though i’m sure it happened, and i’m sure he probably had trouble with him.
i know you’re not arguing that the reason bosh had difficulty with scola was b/c scola is a PF, not a C. in that particular instance, given bosh’s superiority as an interior defender (in the russell mold), i would’ve expected him to be able to handle scola better than he did. not shut him down, just handle him adequately. i mean, i’d think his superior athleticism & quickness would offset sufficiently any physical advantage scola (6′9″ & 245 lbs) would have over bosh (6′10″ & 230 lbs), that’s all.
maybe my expectations are too high…but if he’s an elite-level C, able to defend & rebound at a top-notch level, then hasn’t the time for excuses passed him by?
i agree that he’s not 100%. and he likely hasn’t been for some time. and there’s a legit chance that he may never be 100% ever again. at 24, after 6 yrs in the L, he’s missed significant time over the prev. two seasons due to knee injuries. while he’s only missed a handful of games this season, he’s clearly still affected by an injury of some sort – he’s playing, at most, in the 75-80% range.
which begs the question – is it wise to build around a guy who may have significant knee issues for the rest of his career? if he re-signs for the max (a big if, IMO), are we going to think of him in 5-6 years the way many think of JO?
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His defensive rebounding numbers put him at 16th so around the middle of the league. I think that isn’t terrible so you’re going to have to point the finger somewhere else when talking about our poor defense in terms of rebounding.
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I figured there’s no way this could be true, so a quick check finds that by only accounting for defensive rebounds Bargnani moves way up from 26/27 to …. 24/27. Not sure how this is ‘middle of the pack’. Bargnani has some good traits, but it’s fairly obvious just by watching some games that rebounding is not one of them.
Where did you get that number? I was unsure of how to easily recalculte everybody’s rebounding numbers per 48 minutes to only be defensive rebounds but if you look at defensive rebs per game for centres based on the link to the list that the Arsenalist provided in his post from ESPN Bargs is 16th in Defensive Rebs per game and he only plays significantly more minutes than say 3 players above him (Varejao, Przybilla and Dalembert who are all basically in for rebounding only nayways). What is the source of you stats?
As fans we always see what we want but the reality is that Bargs rebounding is poor.
The calculation is simple. Open excel and copy and paste the table in the link. Take the DREB number per game and divide by MIN per game and multiply by 48. Highlight the table, hit sort and voila, Bargs is 24/27.
Table here:
RK NAME DREB48
1 M. Camby, LAC 13.8
2 D. Howard, ORL 12.9
3 J. Przybilla, POR 12.4
4 A. Biedrins, GSW 12.2
5 S. Dalembert, PHI 11.9
6 S. O’Neal, PHO 10.1
7 E. Okafor, CHA 10.0
8 Y. Ming, HOU 9.9
9 R. Wallace, DET 9.7
10 K. Thomas, SAS 9.5
11 E. Dampier, DAL 9.1
12 K. Perkins, BOS 9.0
13 J. Noah, CHI 8.7
14 A. Varejao, CLE 8.7
15 Z. Pachulia, ATL 8.4
16 B. Lopez, NJN 8.4
17 N. Hilario, DEN 8.1
18 M. Gasol, MEM 7.8
19 T. Battie, ORL 7.7
20 J. McGee, WAS 7.6
21 J. Foster, IND 7.4
22 D. Diop, DAL/CHA 7.1
23 M. Bonner, SAS 7.1
24 A. Bargnani, TOR 6.9
25 R. Nesterovic, IND 5.7
26 J. Anthony, MIA 4.9
27 D. Songaila, WAS 4.2
wow , we signed Pops! Take away Marion and Bosh’s offence and we’re a D-league team. Awesome!!!
i can’t wait for the first time we see ukic, JK, joey, pops & jake on the floor together. i know it’s (probably) not physically possible for one’s head to explode, but if spontaneous combustion exists, could ’spontaneous-head-explosion (caused by horrific basketball)’ also?
We should have signed that freak dunking guy that the Rockets just signed, put some asses in seats.
yertu,
I might even go so far as to say this, instead …
If the Raptors are in fact going to continue playing Chris Bosh at the #4/PF position then THEY SHOULD JUST GO AHEAD AND TRADE HIM.
Chris Bosh is not a dominant player in the NBA when isn’t working at the #5/C position, i.e. Offensively, Defensively and in terms of Rebounding.
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re: Scola vs Bosh, on the block defensively
IMO, Chris has NO quickness advantage vs Luis, working on the block, on defense, in an iso situation.
[others are free to disagree with this perception, if they wish]
When Chris Bosh is at his best … is when he is put into a match-up where he has a quickness advantage vs his individual check. For CB4, at this level of competition, that situation is found most frequently when he’s at the #5/C-spot.
i agree with the notion that he (bosh) has a quickness advantage over most 5s in the league. what we’ve seen recently, however, is that he has difficulty matching up in other areas – physically, he’s lithe (in relation to those he’d be checking at the 5), so he’s at a distinct disadvantage on both ends of the floor against the bigger 5s. now, his injuries have taken away a good deal of his burst/first step, and have reduced his already marginal leaping ability as well, so it’s difficult to gauge with any accuracy the notion that, over the long-term, he’d have success at that position, in the way you’re proposing. the cynic in me wants to say he’s not been a DOMINANT player at any position in some time, though i know that he CAN be, when all is right.
for the most part, i’d have no problem with bosh going to the 5, because it would allow for bargs to shift to HIS natural position (4) as well; then, maybe we’d stop hearing how he’s such a horrible rebounding 5, since, as a perimeter-oriented 4, his numbers, while at first glance are still pathetically low, are on the rise, and if that upward trend were to continue, would put him more in line with other 4’s in the league. for the season, his rebounding #s are up around 45% from last year, and his #s starting from 31Dec08 (when JO went down & bargs’ minutes increased) are almost double what he produced last year (6.8 : 3.7), albeit in increased PT (meaning the jump in per 36 minutes isn’t as significant, but it’s an improvement nonetheless).
as for quickness – does bargnani also have a quickness advantage the 5?
Does it matter if bosh is best used against 5s or 4s or whatever? Is it up to us to decide who the other team puts against bosh? I understand you can call plays and set rotations, force switches, etc. But how dominant is a player that can’t even get their own shot? Also, history had shown, whether a point guard or a slow fatass center (shaq) is guarding bosh, 80% of the time he’ll jack up a shot.
if its marion, bosh, andrea, calderon as the core next year. do we still draft the best player available or draft a two guard?
yertu,
1. If Bryan Colangelo decides to TRADE Chris Bosh and KEEP Andrea Bargnani … there is nothing stopping the Raptors from eventually being able to build a chanpionship caliber team in Toronto … other than, perhaps, the actual level of his Basketball Acumen [which will be born out one way or the other over time]. The major drawback to taking this approach, is [i] the time that’s been wasted, to this point, [ii] the other players on the present roster who DO NOT fit the bill properly as required teammates for a player with Il Mago’s individual skill set [and other personal attributes], as a “Centrifugal Center/#5″ for a High End NBA team, and [iii] the amount of time it will take to construct this type of team around him in Toronto.
It is certainly doable, however … depending on the acumen of the GM … as Jack McCloskey showed, in Detroit, with the Bad Boyz.
2. FWIW, the player with a “perceived strength” at the Offensive end of the floor who the Raptors SHOULD have traded first and foremost, IMO, was NOT Andrea Bargnani … it was Jason Kapono. : )
JK – i agree, they *should* have traded him. but wanting to (and, i think it’s pretty clear, that they desperately did, and still do) and being able to are completely different things. i assumed it was barney you were referring to, since he:
a) has a movable contract, and
b) doesn’t suck.
K-fraud – who has a higher basketball acumen, you or Brian Colangelo?
I’d would be nice if you (Raptoronto) stopped acting like a 5 year old, while thinking you’re clever with your nicknames. You bring absolute zero to the conversation, on any level. Stop being the Hassan Adams of Reptors Republic and grow up already.
Flux, I apologize, I had not considered that I was belittling your mentor. Following an asshole can’t be easy.
So who do you think has a higher basketball acumen, Khan (is that better) or Brian Colangelo? It’s an honest question.
First of all, it’s Bryan.
Second of all, the simple point is that, the whole idea of this place is to exchange ideas and opinions or debate their points. If we all had the same point of view it would be pretty boring, wouldn’t you say? Calling anyone names simply because they don’t share your view or because it seems so off the wall that your mind cannot compute it, is not grounds enough to bring down, or attempt to bring down, the quality of conversation down to grade school levels. Of course, this is under the assumption we are all adults here, which sadly, I don’t think is the case.
And lastly, Khandor’s ideas and views cannot fully be evaluated because they cannot be implemented to judge their result. That said, a number of things cannot be denied – various suggestions he brought up at the start of the year or during it have actually happened and yielded success. Also, last year a number of predictions were made by him that came true. What that tells you about his ball acumen is for you to decide. On the other hand we have Bryan’s entire body of work to judge his acumen and even then one person may think it’s high, while others may think it’s average. Again, just a matter of opinion, and the beauty of living in a free society is the luxury of having one without fear of repercussion.
Just live and let live, man. Your constant shots and clever remarks speak more about you then they do about his bball acumen. Would it be that hard for you to challenge his view by countering it with your ideas? Probably not. Another thing to consider, and I have mentioned this numerous times already, is that people are much too concerned with his method of delivery and tone. So you don’t appreciate the style, so what? Focus on the points of the argument, not the delivery. That is what we are here for, not for sorting out how people’s feeling were hurt and Dr.Phil sessions. Save the drama for you momma.. n’mean?
The reason I despise the guy so much is because I hate seeing someone infecting the minds of young enthusiastic fans of sport and getting away with it simply because those who know better don’t bother to get in endless, pointless circle arguments with the David Koresh of sports blogs. You back this guy because he once told you your opinion counted (only because you agreed with him and fed his starved ego) now he has your undying devolution regardless of how moronic, condescending, insulting and self-serving he is. Sad and scary.
As for intelligent discussion on basketball; how is that possible with the flow of the comments constantly being hijacked by a guy desperate for his own self-preservation and nothing more?
Those young minds are free to make their own choices as to which opinion to hold, from the many offered by the various people on here. It is not for you to decide. Any they can only make that decision when multiple opinions are offered, not when the comments are littered with narrow minded insults. I mean, what does that contribute to the conversation?
I am not backing anyone, I am simply trying to help create an environment free of useless comments and insults, and full of discussion.
Intelligent discussion is possible via a back and forth flow. If something appears hijacked, it’s only because, IMO, ppl shy away from commenting as they don’t have the tool to counter an argument. Think of it as a debate or contest. The first one to throw his hands up in the air and one that resorts to insults is the loser. There are plenty of people who get into discussion with him and are capable of simply disagreeing and offering their point of view. Dave, Scott G, Yertu, Raps Fan, Arse, bearvon… etc. I’m sure your are capable of the same, and again, I don’t know what you think your remarks are contributing. Sure every once in a while ppl get frustrated and lash out, but to just get on and type up some lame comment, is infantile.
“moronic, condescending, insulting and self-serving” Again, you are focusing on the delivery not the substance of the argument. This is not a manners website, it’s a basketball one. I am here to learn, not sort out if my feeling are being hurt by someone. I mean, really, you are that hurt by his tone? Do you want to talk about it? Dude, man up, quit your crying and say something of value. And I am not even going to mention the irony in you worrying about him polluting young minds with his acumen while you are polluting them with lame ass insults.
Man, you wouldn’t want to break up that sweet group. That’s a guaranteed 26-30 wins. Maybe its time to just draft the best guy available and START OVER.
i was thinking the same thing. i love the feeling that, heading into next season, we’re all going to be reliving the start of this season, needing 300 things to fall in place perfectly to have a chance to repeat.
marion (if he re-signs) to be able to incorporate his unique style into that of the team, so he’s not completely wasted.
jose to be able to go injury-free, and to open his mind to the possibility of pushing the tempo, when appropriate.
bosh, to be injury-free, and reclaim his form from the start of this year.
bargs, to continue to develop both his offensive repertoire & defense/rebounding, to the point where any & all ‘bust’ talk will be put to bed forever…and that his improved output will actually lead to, you know, wins.
joey, to pull a gollum & ‘murder’ his ‘bad-joey’ side once & for all. oh wait, that never really happened, and gollum ended up biting off frodo’s finger, and dying in a pool of lava.
hump, to be healthy, and the big energy guy off the bench.
kapono, to be hit by a bus. ok, i didn’t mean that.
ok, i did. fuck it, i’m a prick.
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if its marion, bosh, andrea, calderon as the core next year. do we still draft the best player available or draft a two guard? – Mike P
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A NBA team should ALWAYS draft the best player available.
wow, we agree on something. neato.
of course, ‘best’ is entirely debatable…
re: Bosh’s knee injuries
An aspect of this which is interesting …
IMO, CB4’s injuries have increased recently since he’s been asked to play more of his minutes at the #4/PF spot.
In part, it may be the extra running he is now doing, in conjunction with the additional close-outs, rotations, and other lateral slides associated more with the #4/PF position, in the modern NBA game, that is resulting in his knee/leg injuries, as opposed to the physical battering which his body takes when banging on the block with behemoths like Shaq, D12, and Yao.
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re: Bargnani’s quickness at the #5/C
When working on the block … i.e. Offensively, Defensively and in terms of Rebounding
IMO, no, he does not have a quickness advantage at that spot.
When working on the perimeter, however … yes, he does a quickness advantage at that spot.
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re: Bargnani at the #4/PF spot
He has major problems defensively … any time he has to move his feet.
[i.e. this is when he fouls, a lot]
When switching to “smaller” players, he’s a nightmare.
When providing “help” to his teammates, he’s a nightmare.
When rotating to help-the-helper, he’s a nightmare.
When defending vs P&R/P actions, he’s a nightmare.
When he’s in Defensive Transition, he’s a nightmare.
In these aspects of the game, he’s gone from being atrocious to just being bad.
i agree with a lot of what youre saying about bargnani…and while i dont perceive it to be as drastic as youre saying…i do believe that there are times in the game in which he has MAJOR lapses…and ive also noticed that a lot of times those are the turning points of the game (i.e. that one crucial rebound where hes nowhere to be found, or leaving his man open to help on the pick n roll)…but overall i see him doing an adequate job (if comparing him to everyone else on the team not named “marion”) and he and bosh are very give and take on whos to blame for their interior defense.
with that being said…dont you think that his overhelping or picking up joses man have just as much to do with faulty coaching and bad help defense as it has to do with his lack of skill?
if i had to choose between building AROUND bosh or building WITH bargnani i would say its a no brainer…especially considering the pieces that could be had for someone like bosh.
my reason being-
“upside”- we’ve watched bargnani blossom into a pretty solid offensive player and most anyone who watches the games believes that he can only get better…when was the last time someone said “once bosh develops his post game, watch out!”…if anything chris bosh has regressed into a comfort zone (much like we saw baron davis become comfortable with just hucking 3’s)…i’d have to believe that offensively both players are almost even (the nod goes to bosh for his experience…but we are talking about “upside”)
i have to admit that sometimes i cringe when having to read or even say a word like “upside” but we do spend a lot of time talking about what bargnani could do…and a lot of us would like to see this play out with him in a raptor uniform.
like i said…i dont believe that bargnani is a cornerstone to a franchise…i do believe he could be a great second tier player so long as he continues to develop…and over the last few months have we been given any indication that he wont continue to do so?
can the same be said for chris bosh?
In other words, they just be jerking while they be keeping both of them around. Interesting perspective.
FUCK..we just signed another fucking euro.
Is it official?
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K-fraud – who has a higher basketball acumen, you or Brian Colangelo? – by Raptoronto
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“Were YOU [perhaps] speaking to ME?”
If so … then, know THIS.
LOL : )
khandor=stephen hawking minus the iq
Hahahhah. He probably has the face too.
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khandor=stephen hawking minus the iq – by Andiamo
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Are you sure that what you really want to do here is invoke the name of someone like this … with this list of accomplishments to his credit, in spite of his physical disabilities … when describing that which you fail to fully comprehend, yet?
If so, then, that’s a choice you are free to make. : )
lol.man u are dumb.like i said, stephen hawking minus the iq u dumb fuck….i guess your acumen for being a wanker is far reaching.somebody posted a link on realgm to one of your pathetic blogs.you’re going on about jose being an average defender.heres a sample of replies.
-I also like the guy’s condescensing tone, about how Raps fans don’t understand the game but he does! Then he brings his flawed analysis and ends up looking like a tool.
-Did this guy just write that Jermaine O’neal was bad at switches, recovering and trapping? Uh…yeah, no.
-That dude was banned at least 3 times from here. condor/enkhata/uws.
-Scott Carefoot,
I can’t be bothered to dislike many people but this guy is a supreme douche. He accused me of banning him from my forum (and demanded an apology for it) because he said Calderon would be the next Nash and I disagreed with him. You know, because it makes a lot of sense to ban everybody from your forum who disagrees with you. I can’t remember whether anybody actually banned this guy or not (Efman of Raptorman.ca mostly runs my forum) but if he did get banned, it was probably because he’s an obnoxious prick.
lol.
LOL, LOL, LOL …
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lol.man u are dumb.like i said, stephen hawking minus the iq u dumb fuck….i guess your acumen for being a wanker is far reaching.somebody posted a link on realgm to one of your pathetic blogs.you’re going on about jose being an average defender.heres a sample of replies.
-I also like the guy’s condescensing tone, about how Raps fans don’t understand the game but he does! Then he brings his flawed analysis and ends up looking like a tool.
-Did this guy just write that Jermaine O’neal was bad at switches, recovering and trapping? Uh…yeah, no.
-That dude was banned at least 3 times from here. condor/enkhata/uws.
-Scott Carefoot,
I can’t be bothered to dislike many people but this guy is a supreme douche. He accused me of banning him from my forum (and demanded an apology for it) because he said Calderon would be the next Nash and I disagreed with him. You know, because it makes a lot of sense to ban everybody from your forum who disagrees with you. I can’t remember whether anybody actually banned this guy or not (Efman of Raptorman.ca mostly runs my forum) but if he did get banned, it was probably because he’s an obnoxious prick.
lol. – by Andiamo
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The 20/80 Principle at-work, yet again.
LOL, LOL, LOL … : )
Give it up buddy. Your not smart yet you have this high opinion about yourself and have nothing to back up it up. People are telling you that you’re an idiot and pretentious yet you don’t change. Drop the ego ASAP.
You think people will take your bullshit in the the real world up at the office or w/e you work? I would knock your lights out if you ever spoke to me the way you talk to people on here.
Your blog gets 0 hits a day, you probably have no friends or a girlfriend and you place mirrors around your room so you have someone to talk too and keep you company at night.
that insult sounds vaguely familiar…
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The reason I despise the guy so much is because I hate seeing someone infecting the minds of young enthusiastic fans of sport and getting away with it simply because those who know better don’t bother to get in endless, pointless circle arguments with the David Koresh of sports blogs. You back this guy because he once told you your opinion counted (only because you agreed with him and fed his starved ego) now he has your undying devolution regardless of how moronic, condescending, insulting and self-serving he is. Sad and scary.
As for intelligent discussion on basketball; how is that possible with the flow of the comments constantly being hijacked by a guy desperate for his own self-preservation and nothing more? – by Raptoronto
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1. It’s apparent who here thinks s/he has a monopoly on deciding what “young minds” should learn about the game of basketball, or not.
2. It’s also apparent that that same person didn’t really [fully] understand what Flux just took the time to write, at all …
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First of all, it’s Bryan.
Second of all, the simple point is that, the whole idea of this place is to exchange ideas and opinions or debate their points. If we all had the same point of view it would be pretty boring, wouldn’t you say? Calling anyone names simply because they don’t share your view or because it seems so off the wall that your mind cannot compute it, is not grounds enough to bring down, or attempt to bring down, the quality of conversation down to grade school levels. Of course, this is under the assumption we are all adults here, which sadly, I don’t think is the case.
And lastly, Khandor’s ideas and views cannot fully be evaluated because they cannot be implemented to judge their result. That said, a number of things cannot be denied – various suggestions he brought up at the start of the year or during it have actually happened and yielded success. Also, last year a number of predictions were made by him that came true. What that tells you about his ball acumen is for you to decide. On the other hand we have Bryan’s entire body of work to judge his acumen and even then one person may think it’s high, while others may think it’s average. Again, just a matter of opinion, and the beauty of living in a free society is the luxury of having one without fear of repercussion.
Just live and let live, man. Your constant shots and clever remarks speak more about you then they do about his bball acumen. Would it be that hard for you to challenge his view by countering it with your ideas? Probably not. Another thing to consider, and I have mentioned this numerous times already, is that people are much too concerned with his method of delivery and tone. So you don’t appreciate the style, so what? Focus on the points of the argument, not the delivery. That is what we are here for, not for sorting out how people’s feeling were hurt and Dr.Phil sessions. Save the drama for you momma.. n’mean? – by Fluxland
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Flux, much appreciated. : )
Unfortunately, it falls on “non-functioning” ears a high percentage of the time.
Khandor,
Just seen your reply. I didn’t scroll all the way down, as I use the threaded comments option.
Yeah, it is unfortunate… he missed the entire point of the reply.
And no worries.
You guys are strange.