It’s a damn slow day, I was hoping for a press conference with Bryan Colangelo introducing Marion and Marcus Banks but Eric Smith says don’t bank on it (Update: he’s wrong). I haven’t a heard a single word out of Marion about this trade and either he’s refusing to talk about it and drowning himself in alcohol or he’s just “unavailable”. I’m hoping it’s the latter and that he’s not consumed by the shock of coming and playing in -15 windchill. Don’t worry Shawn, winter’s almost over, I think they spotted the groundhog’s shadow (Marion says: WTF is a groundhog?).
John Hollinger’s ESPN Insider article (which I can’t post for obvious reasons) is pointing out that the Raptors have a 10.6% chance of making the playoffs given their easy schedule and the teams in between them and the promised land (yes, 8th spot is the promised land for us now). He’s also suggesting that the Kings are actively looking to unload John Salmons who some of you believed to be a good (and cheaper) fit for our SF needs. Now that Marion’s here I’m sure we’re out of that race.
He’s also pointing out that Marion’s agent is Dan Fegan and his players don’t come cheap. Yeah, but nothing comes cheap for the Raptors, we’re used to overpaying for talent and if we resign Marion I doubt it’ll be at a reasonable rate. I’m used to the reality that NBA players need to be paid more to play in Toronto, it’s not a slight against the city, it’s the perception of it which is only made worse by the constant losing.
Colangelo in his post-trade teleconference said that he’s thinking of resigning Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker and Joey Graham while bringing back Carlos Delfino and Rasho Nesterovic. I don’t know how I feel about bringing back Parker in any sort of capacity, I know that he’s played well as a backup PG but you have to figure that he’s going to continue his steady decline and be even worse next year. I would still opt for drafting a defensive minded shooting guard in this year’s draft and taking my chances with Roko/Banks at the backup-PG situation. At some point you’ll have to plan for the future and Parker just doesn’t fit in the plans.
As for Delfino, sometimes we tend to overvalue players that have left the franchise. There’s a lot of nostalgia about Mo Pete and Delfino that would immediately disappear after 10 games of them coming back. I appreciate Carlos Delfino and what he brought to the team but let’s not forget that the man went through stages where he rivaled Jamario Moon for bad shot-selection. You might argue that was the by-product of Mitchell’s system (or lack thereof) and that in a structured environment Delfino could be a valuable asset. If that is the case the next logical question becomes can Triano be the coach to implement a system that allows for mediocre talent players like Delfino, Banks and Graham to play better than they are? The jury’s out on that.
There’s an article in the Sun today that suggests Triano’s handling of Marion and Banks will determine his future. It’s a fair argument but it would be naive of Colangelo to think that Triano and his staff have the capacity to take a complex and mediocre roster and have it make noise in the playoffs. More interestingly, the article mentions the name of Chris Wilcox as a player who is available. I’ve always liked him and wanted the Raptors to make a play for him last year. Hopefully Colangelo can land him, I really don’t see Jawai doing much for us and as much as I like Humphries his basketball IQ and court awareness is just not good enough to play the role of a constant and consistent 7th man.
According to the poll on the site 42% of you are pussies. Bosh’s twittering is getting out of hand. Follow him and us.
Do check out my interview with a Miami Heat blogger regarding the trade.
75 Raps
So, if bosh cant play on wednesday, are we going to see a starting lineup of AB/Matrix/Good Joey/AP/Jose?
triano can’t seriously be considered the long term coach for this team. we need a serious coach if we want to be a serious team.
bring back rasho and delfino? am i the only one who thinks bc is a f*ck nut for even suggesting bringing back players he sent away?
Is it me or is BC obssessed with Bringing back his old players?!
Marcus Banks : BC signed this guy to a ridiculous contract back in ‘06, no?
Jake Voskuhl : Former sun, signed by BC earlier this season
Shawn Marion : Self Explanatory
Now he’s talking about bringing back Rasho, Delfino. Who’s next? TJ ?!
Maybe BC is too fucking lazy to scout out other good players and will just stick with the swill he knows.
Or maybe, just maybe, he masturbates furiously to his old Phoenix roster and all of his moves are just him trying to get back the whole shebang, only to find that when he accomplishes his task they have all grown old and shitty.
It’s like no matter what happens, this can only end in tears.
Banks was signed in 06, only it would have been hard for that to be a BC signing givin that at the time he was busy signing guys like Parker and Garbo.
And why is there all this hating over guys signed for the minimum to provide practice bodies and fill-up rosters? Look at the rosters of the league, in the 10-15 part of the rotation there are lot of players that no team actually wants to have to use, no point getting worked up about it.
Banks was signed by D’antoni who had assumed the GM role that year
Triano is only there for show. C’mon people! He’s not coaching, it’s BC calling all the shots.
And can he be sooo dumb as to actually try and get into the 8th spot, then get pounded by the Celtics and then draft between 12 and 14?
I’m a little disappointed with that press conference. I was hoping it would be Marion sitting next to an slbatross and a briefcase filled with 3 million dollars.
Meant albatross, obviously. And Flux, if you make the playoffs and therefore miss the lottery, I thought the best pick you can get is 15th?
I’d rather have the Raps make the playoffs and play the C’s or whoever than have them barely miss the playoffs and get a 12-14 pick in a crappy draft.
Yeah you are right. This trade has sent me off the deep end… I can’t think right as every conceivable scenario is making me want to throw things. And why would rather have them make the playoffs and get destroyed? I don’t get it.
In a draft where the 15th pick is just as likely to pan out as the 10th pick, why not?
Same concept.. 1st round exit.. not making it.. what’s the difference? Giving false hope to the fans? Giving MLSE more money? Chalking up another 1st round exit in the history books and adding it to CB4’s T-Mac like resume?
Excuse me for being off topic but has anyone heard anything today about a proposed 3-way (deal) between Chicago, Toronto, and Phoenix where Amare would come to Toronto and Bosh would go to Chicago? It popped up on my news feed. Arsenalist, do you know if there is any merit to this rumor? or is it just a slow news day and people are looking for stuff to print?
I’m no insider dude. But I doubt BC’s considering trading Bosh, especially for Amare who is also a FA in 2010. You should also consider that lot of these trade rumours are sites trying to get hits.
What if the sites are print newspapers?
Then they’re trying to sell papers. C’mon man, get with the program.
Front page of raptors.com
New Raptors forward Shawn Marion will be meeting the media for the first time today at Noon and you can watch the press conference right here on raptors.com and Raptors NBA TV. Don’t forget to check back later today for much more from the presser.
Thanks for this man.
Anyone know anything about the 3 way trade rumor goin on??…Who would u guys rather, Amare or Bosh?
BC is just naming names that he can (without fear of tampering) to give the fanbase something to look forward to and distract them from the current situation (losing). I also think BC overvalues his players in public statements so that other teams may overvalue them as well (Jamario).
The 2009 free-agent class is not that relavent to Raps. I’m banking on the fact that there will likely be a number of teams that will be pushed up against or over the tax threshold, if it decreases next year, and will need to unload players via trade for strictly financial reasons (e.g. Since we will be under the cap, trading Delfino’s rights and his cap hold number for a player with a larger salary may be a possibility. The opposing team can then renounce their rights to Delfino and their obligation to his cap hold thus completley sheding the salary of the player traded…I may be wrong but if that is possible, the rights to Delfino becomes fairly attractive asset in the off-season).
I agree. Probably one of the major advantages of doing this Marion trade is to act like a dumping spot for good players with unreasonable contracts (in terms of money or length), similar to what clipper did with camby last off season.
Raps Fan,
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triano can’t seriously be considered the long term coach for this team. we need a serious coach if we want to be a serious team.
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Conversely …
If the Raptors do not want to be a serious team, they do not need a serious coach and, therefore, Triano can seriously be considered the long term coach for this team. : )
It seems as though there are a good number of people who refer to themselves as Raptors fans yet do not require this team to be “serious” in the same way that you [me and others] would prefer them to be. : (
Seriously, if you are seriously convinced that your favourite(?) basketball team intentionally puts out a poor product and has no desire to improve you seriously should consider following a team that is more serious…seriously.
If Bosh is traded for Amare (which I seriously doubt will happen) we’ll need to switch back to the purple uni’s.
Bizzy,
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Anyone know anything about the 3 way trade rumor goin on??…Who would u guys rather, Amare or Bosh?
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FYI
why dont we trade AP and JG for Salmons..
Judging from his turn-around when he signed a contract for Raps and then became a king, I doubt he would want to come here. I know he doesnt have a trade clause, but i would prefer players that would actually give it their all every night, dispite the circumstances.
damn, gunner…you be reading my mind.
lol when you “SEE” the NBA at an high level, you will be able to comprehend the tendencies of players.
I am so bad at that.
salmons backed out of a FA deal w/ TO before, so why would anyone think he’d want to play in TO now? esp. since they’re only marginally better than his current team. i realize he has no control over where he plays, but he’s got a good contract, and is gonna get paid regardless.
Maybe God will tell him to head North?
I was just about to scroll down and say that…
Do you really think he’s going to address the media and be anything other than optimistic about the roster?
Not only for trade purposes but for morale.
You really think bc likes this team? He loves (an will for ever love) his bff bargnani and he’s wondering why chris won’t play with him. Otherwise i’d safely say that he, like the rest of us, think he’s assembled a group of clowns.
So what you are saying is that knowingly assemble this group of clowns? Or he didn’t know they were clowns before he brought them here?
I will guarantee he thinks this is a contender. The next few months in TO will be about “Oh if we can only make the playoffs, where anything can happen, we have a shot ppl!”
you guys think the 3 team trade CHI,TOR,PHX makes sense for all?
for, uh, chicago it does. can’t see why TO or PHX would do it…both are giving up far, far more than they’re getting back. the GS rumour has more meat to it, and it’s also far-fetched.
I also think Wilcox brings a lot to the court. He’s been playing for so many years in obscurity, people forget he’s still a young talent who doesn’t mind getting dirty under the net. He’s what Kris Humphries should be, and would make ol’ Humph expendable which is fine by me.
Chris Wilcox is a reliable Big. As always, his value would be determined by the cost involved.
To this point, Sam Presti has shown that he actually knows what he’s doing, as an up-and-coming GM. The chances of him getting fleeced in a trade would be remote.
If Colangelo pulls this trade off he’ll prove Stephen A Smith 100% correct. I honestly don’t think he’ll trade Bosh because he’s condemned any such talk over and over again. As much as some people think he’s obsessed with the Phoenix roster I don’t think he pulls this trade off just because he believes that Bosh can be the cornerstone of this franchise.
I do think that Calderon is a better fit with Amare as he tends to roll to the basket far more than Bosh off the PNRs, something that can be Calderon’s bread and butter.
What move(s) if any more at all can the Raps make before the deadline??..we need a big..
There’s the ridiculous GSW-Raptors trade that ESPN is running right now which has zero chance of happening ever…
HOLY! The Amar’e trade rumors have been shut down since last night… can we stop talking about this??!! They are not moving him, if they do, until the summer.
You know what’s messed up? This team went from contender talk to rebuilding mode in under 3 months…and what’s sickening is that the people defending BC, who were saying “give him more time I know we will be contenders next year”, are totally cool with this. SHEEP!!! Mindless effin sheep!
Good to see the focus shift to the next move. All will be clear when it’s made. No to Amare.
Those interested in acquiring Stat for Bosh … might want to look at making this type of deal instead:
Suns/Raptors Blockbusters
If you’re going to swing for the fences … might as well take a mighty cut. : )
here here…but id rather swing for the fence with portland…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bnwwqg
i dont even understand my obsession.
that’s a joke, right?
to get younger, more athletic, and some cap space?
oh i forgot…bosh and calderon are unstoppable right now.
errrr…if it wasnt for their injuries theyd be unstoppable.
Raptors are moving forward, imagine what it is to be a Suns fan. Yikes.
In any trade for Bosh, I hope the Raps would seriously pursue a up-and-coming in the same position (a la LA) and a solid 2 guard. If we can get a first round draft pick as well, great, but if we can get two strong pieces for Bosh, this team will round itself quite nicely. The other advantage of getting two starting calibre pieces would mean that our current starting players would be pushed into bench roles which align with their ability. A bench of parker, graham, hump and ukic is good enough for the position we are at right now. Then the upcoming draft picks for the Dinos can add to the depth at a cheap price.
Moving forward? With all of our valuable assets?
I generally view myself as an optimist in a sea of pesimists (and one with general faith in bc) but I am having a tough time seeing as how we get out of this one without getting rid of a major puzzle piece and going younger and actually sucking while rebuilding.
But I guess bc has faith in what he’s done in the past…remember it was pretty much the same terrible roster the year before Steve Nash arrived and one proper piece of what appeared to be a very bleak puzzle suddenly turned them into a mythical creature.
Yer right. It might be too late. But JO is gone, so we are back to before JO. That is forward for this team.
haha.
phd,
Comment #37 was with you in mind. : )
“When it’s time to shoot, then, shoot.”
- The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
I hope Bosh plays, I really wanna see what this frontcourt can do.
Hopefully BC can trade Kapono for an expiring so we can build on the fly. Because this summer is looking like its gonna be a huge salary dump.
bearvon,
Difference are …
1. Kevin Pritchard might not make that deal.
2. Steve Kerr just might make the deal I proposed.
3. Deal with the Suns gets the Raptors closer to WINNING sooner.
; )
but how much winning and for how long? all i want on this team is a point guard who will stay in front of his man!!!!
if youre pritchard would you make that deal?
if youre bc (assuming you enjoy being in bc’s skin) would you make that deal?
really? pritchard would turn down a deal that netted him a top-5 PF, a (potential) top-10 PG & one of the best pure shooters in the L for a guy who may one day be 8/10ths of bosh, two guys who haven’t played all season, & a backup PG (who does project to be a very nice player)? really? why?
does bosh not provide them with all that LA does, and more?
is jose not the steadying, vet PG they kinda/sorta need to put them over the top (a pass-first guy who won’t look for his shot, is careful with the ball, and would defer to roy et al)?
JK’s contract inhibits their maneuverability, and he certainly hasn’t been anything special with the raps, but in an offense that features a ball-dominating wing, wouldn’t he find himself open following a roy cut, kind of like when he was w/ the heat? their roster is stacked, so come ‘10, they’d have to decide whether re-signing bosh was a priority…but even if it weren’t, they would have more than enough pieces to continually rebuild, either by jettisoning good role-players for picks or guys with potential, or packaging good, young players for a bigger piece.
and how many chips would a roster of jose/rodriguez, roy/fernandez, outlaw/batum, bosh (& whoever) & oden/pryzbilla win? granted, over the long-term, they’d have to replace some of those guys for salary reasons, but you’d have to think that a move like this makes them a legit contender NOW, without damaging their future in any way, shape or form.
the deal works out fantastic for them…so maybe we get more?
but its not like we are contenders…i could handle the repercussions of this deal if we were to magically meet them in the finals.
its a suggestion to rebuild and get younger…a panic move perhaps, but things arent working as is.
Hey Guys,
Did you get a chance to checkout this article from ESPN about trades that “Should Happen” .. I personally like the Bosh to GS trade.
Raptors send Chris Bosh to the Warriors for Andris Biedrins, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Marco Belinelli and a future No. 1 pick
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeOptions-090217
This would only happen is BC was GM of the Warriors.. except he’d throw in Jax and Monta with a couple of more picks… say like 3.
bearvon,
both sides won’t make the deal.
can’t wait to see the game tmr. i expect jose to throw more alley dunks to marion if he’s in tomorrow. don’t really know much about marion so i checked out some marion mix on youtube and almost all his finishes are dunks. i also think he has one of the most unique shots in the NBA and you would think after seeing that his FG percentage should around 10-20. But nevertheless, he’s a reliable 3 we’ve been lacking so i’m happy. i just hope we can resign him for cheap and add reliable bench/role players. Now we have a solid back-up combo in RokoBanks. Soloman can hand out the gatorade and towers for the remaining of the season. MLSE fired their tower/water boy because Will’s gotta be produce somehow. Hopefully, come start of next year B.C. won’t jinx it by saying “On Paper, this is the best Raptors team eveer!”
Jose does not know how to throw alleys.
oh he knows…but he has to create the illusion of being a great point guard…and how does he do that?
he wont push the ball, and wont risk a turnover.
Ripped a couple interviews:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/02/17/shawn-marion-and-bryan-colangelo-interview/
Kevin Pritchard might not make that deal because:
i. He knows that Bosh’s best position in the NBA is Center, not PF, and the Blazers already have their Center;
or,
ii. He sees Brandon Roy or Rudy Fernandez or J-Bayless as his PG, heading forward.
: )
BC should do one more trade b4 the deadline. The trade of Parker, Graham & Solomon for Butler makes a lot of sense for both sides. Parker, Graham (qualifying offer) & Solomon are all expiring contracts – which Washington desparately needs since they will be over the luxury tax, at least 5 million, next year just by keeping its current roster (not like the Wizards is going to get pass the first round anytime soon even with Butler). Washington can re-sign Graham in case it wants to fill the void left by Butler. For us, we add another legit all-star guard. Problem is we have to go over the luxury tax a bit (not too much) this year (since we have to add two more fillers to make the count of roster at 13). Next year though, when Marion’s contract comes off the book, our payroll will be siting at around 56 million. Assume Cap is 58 million, we can sign Rasho to a 3 year 5 million contract. We can use the MLE on Delfino for 3 years 10 million and Larry-Bird on Marion for 3 years 21 million. Total payout will sit somewhere around 68 million. Not to mention we have the following line-up.
Bosh/Nathan
Bargnani/Nesterovic/Humpries
Jose/Banks/Ukic
Marion/Kapono
Butler/Delfino
+ a 2009 first rounder.
Definitely not bad for a starting line-up.
Hmmm, I would have to be Rob Babcock to accept that deal.
From a Washington perspective of course, we should do that in a sec.
I gonna go with CB4 would prefer to make the playoffs, although the way he finishes games, it might be fair to ask.
As I said before, re: Sam Presti. In fairly quick order, the Thunder are putting the pieces together around Mr. Durant.
I tend to agree with you but part of me wonders if Chandler without Paul is going to regress. I have seen very little of him but I doubt Westbrook is as capable of maximizing Chandler’s limited offence.
Two things struck me as amusing about Colangelo’s interview:
1) He, along with other people (including Marion himself) keep talking about how Shawn is going to fit in with Toronto’s “up-tempo” style. Uh…are they forgetting that Jose Calderon is our point guard? Aren’t the Raps one of the worst fast-break teams in the league right now?
2) It was funny how Colangelo admitted that he didn’t want to give up a draft pick then made a pitch defending his decision to do it.
I agree, we are one of the worst fastbreaking teams in the league and to call our style “up-tempo” is stupidity beyond belief. Hopefully what you will see happening is Marion forcing Calderon’s hand in giving the ball up early in the clock.
For a guy that always keeps his head up Calderon sure doesn’t make those passes that get you easy baskets. I’m hoping we up our FBP by at least 4-6 points a game with Marion around.
Sam,
re: Chandler to the Hornets
In Presti’s view of hoops … TC is going to the Thunder, as a still young Big, for his prowess as a Rebounder and a Defender, not what he could at the end of CP3’s lob passes.
Think back to the old Sonics teams of the late 1970’s and envision a Center like Marvin Webster.
Beside Jeff Green [PF], Kevin Durant [SF] and Russell Westbrook [PG] … IMO … that’s the core of a serious outfit in Ok City, not-too-far down-the-road.
But Chandler lacks some power on D and the trade might actually be a short-term upgrade for NOLA given Chandler’s subpar year so far. I know he’s injured and, like I said, he probably fits well next year but remember the Brand signing – looked good on paper. On the court, it didn’t look so good. Crowning GM’s before they get results makes no sense.