Maybe this will buy BryCo some time till the summer…It’s times like this where I wished I could smite BC for his idiotic abuse of this franchise and its fans. The latest obscenity happens to potentially be the most expensive.
When this team was in desperate need of a wing player who could create his own scoring options and defend on the perimeter, he broke the bank by shipping out our three most marketable assets for a player who was past his prime and injury ridden for the last two seasons. Good job. Don’t be fooled, this trade isn’t a good one for the Raptors. It’s sexy, but it that’s it, no good will come of it.
The lone saving grace of having O’Neal in a Raptors uniform was the cap space he brought in the most anticipated free agent period in the history of the NBA. Not so much anymore, since we get to be a player the year before, did I F*&#(*$ miss something? Why wouldn’t the Raptors want to be players in the 2010 FA? Imagine they were able to somehow lure Lebron, Wade or Joe Johnson here. Ok, there must be some gems in this seasons free agent list, lets take a look at the cream of the crop:
- Mike Bibby
- Ben Gordon
- Brandon Bass
- Allen Iverson
- Rasheed Wallace
- Ron Artest
- Trevor Ariza
- Lamar Odom
- Shawn Marion
- Andre Miller
Anyone there you think would make this team an EC power, keeping Bosh happy so he doesn’t force a move next season where we will surely get sodomized in yet another trade? A show of hands…yea, me neither. How bad is this Marion trade? In essence, this is what happened:
Outgoing
- TJ Ford
- Rasho Nesterovic
- 2008 1st Round Pick – Roy Hibbert
- Maceo Baston
- Jamario Moon
- Conditional 1st Round Pick 2010-2015
- $4mill trade exception
- Fan Pride
Incoming
- Shawn Marion
- Nathan Jawai
- Marcus Banks
- $3mill cash
- Increased Raptered Fan Syndrome
About the 1st round conditional pick:
The Heat will receive a first-round pick from Toronto in 2010, unless that pick is among the first 14 (lottery) selections. Should Toronto be in the draft lottery in 2010, in essence not make next season’s playoffs, the Heat then would receive a 2010 second-round pick from the Raptors. The first-round pick then would be sent to the Heat in any year, from 2011 through 2014 that it is not among the first 14 selections (the next year Toronto makes the playoffs). Should the Heat not get the first-round pick by 2014, it then would receive a 2015 first-round pick from the Raptors.
So the kicker is if the Raptors are a lottery team next season, they lose a 2nd round pick in 2010, and a 1st rounder down the line somewhere, genius.
Implications of the trade:
- Another 1st round pick gone…
- The wing position is still thin
- Marion will be forced to play 3, what about Joey?
- Overall depth is even more suspect
- Marcus F*&#(*$ Banks, are you F*&#(*$ kidding me? F*&#(*$!!
- We have cap space in the summer of 2009, not 2010 – which is like playing in the NBDL instead of the NBA…
- There is $14,200,000 of salary tied up between Kapono, Humphries and Banks…
Idiot. Fool’s Gold this BC is. If you think otherwise, I know this Nigerian businessman who has a proposition for you.
Respect to Cuzzy from Cuzoogle.com for the graphic.
Free Ukic!
61 Raps
first!
You forgot that we also essentially gave away CV3 in this trade. The way he’s playing right now in Milwaukee, we should have just kept him in the first place.
We’d have young talent, more cap space (he’s still on a rookie contract) all our draft picks back, Moon back and a rosier future.
Now that your testicles have exploded, perhaps BC isn’t finished dealing.
you expect more before the trade deadline?
This is like Christmas all over again!!! Wheeeeeeee!!!
Dude calm down. It’s a decent deal and needed to be done. Doug Smith sums it up best and fairly: http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/
And keep in mind there is a reason BC makes millions running an NBA franchise and we don’t.
yeah, that is reflected in the number of championship rings he has won and how he has improved this teams record since he came aboard.
We need Embry to get involved, stat.
Fool’s Gold Rye, BC is Fool’s Gold. Looks good, but is worthless.
I put Jose in the same boat, contrary to the many supporters of his around here. I gave him that tag last year on Arse’s blog.
agree. dresses nice, looks sharp, slick talker. The guy would win an oscar for best salesman in a motion picture.
You mean getting millions for riding the coatails of his dad all those year in phoenix? He’s a horrible GM and has won 0 in his career.
16 1st round exists and 2 second rounds + in 18 years. Some GM.
And why trade all your assets for an injured player and yet trade him 6 months later?
Marion will not resign.So we gave away a 20 million expiring for Marcus Banks? LOL
This idiot cannot run a team and still has yet to make 1 good move since his arrival.
It’s minor,
but Arujuo for Humphries was a good deal. Also, signing Jamario was a good one too. But I get your point.
Only that trade.
BTW Look at Charlie V in Milwaukee. We traded him ( better then Bosh imo ) for a point guard who no longer is on the team. Makes sense BC.
Add drafting Brandon Roy. Oh Bryan you moron
Brandon Roy was taken 6th. Bargnani will still prove that he’s a more valuable player in the next couple years because he can guard Yao Ming and drop tres. There’s always good point guards available but we already have an elite one in Jose. With Marion in, expect a much more free-flowing offence that will give players like Jose, Bargs and Kapono OPEN shots which they so rarely get but so often give up.
BC has never missed the playoffs with the Raptors. Your impatience and ignorance will shine through when you’ll have to admit he’s a great GM.
how can you people like this trade…come on, at first i thought it was alright. But JO hasnt been playing horribly and he didnt derserve to be the blame for out season so far. he has played in almost 75% of games and is averaging 14 and 7. Dont know what more we could have expected from a player past his prime and who has two bum knees.
Secondly, marions contract is expiring this year. And unless he takes a paycut i dont want him past this year. Hes 31 (or something) and hes only going to get slower, and less agile in the open court; which are two of his best assets. without those his whole game style is less effective.
So lets take the scenario that he leaves: who the hell are we going to sign in FA class to replace him??we need a SF and there arnt really any good ones on the market this summer. The only decent one is turkalou from the magic. But i have a feeling a lot of teams are going to get into a bidding war over him and he will get rewarded an oversized contract. I do not want him because i know whoever gets him will overpay substantially for him.
Lets get to the other aspects of this deal. the fuc**ing draft pick and that ass banks. i could have accepted taking one…but not both. come on. banks is a trade killer. hes been shipped all over the nba since some stupid gm gave him that deal (I think it was in MIN, not sure though)
If BC thinks he is rebuilding to tempt bosh into staying…come on. going young is good and we have sacrificed the future just to get marion and we sacrificed out abiulity to be players in 2010…fuc******* BC what are you doing to raptors fans. We are almost as bad as leafs fans who accept anything their GM does for them. This era is reminding me of the John Ferguson Leafs era when he tried to pull off deals but he really just fuc**ed up the francise for the future.
Thats my rant…i know its long, sorry I got a lot of shi* to get off my chest. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCC*****
Lets get to the other aspects of this deal. the fuc**ing draft pick and that ass banks. i could have accepted taking one…but not both. come on. banks is a trade killer. hes been shipped all over the nba since some stupid gm gave him that deal (I think it was in MIN, not sure though)
—–
Ironically it was BC that gave banks that contract.
It was not BC, it was Sarver’s 1st tool, Mike D’Antoni (YES, THE PHX COACH!)
So you’d be OK with us hanging on to O’Neal till the end of next season? You know, you’d probably be the first to criticize him if he hadn’t pulled a trade before the deadline. Criticizing Colangelo is all cool and trendy but let’s be fair to the guy, he saw a problem and tried to fix it.
As for holding on to O’Neal’s contract till “the most anticipated free agent period in the history of the NBA”, who do you think we can make a play for that is so glorious in that summer? Kobe? Lebron? C’mon man, our best bet is to sign a second-tier player like Ben Gordon, Anderson Varejao, Linas Kleiza, Chris Wilcox, Channing Frye and maybe, just maybe if it somehow makes sense Carlos Boozer although he’s probably out of reach and with Bosh here, probably a collision at the PF.
If you have to criticize Colangelo, do it because he took on Marcus Banks and gave up a first round pick, not because he didn’t hang on to JO for another year almost guaranteeing us sucking next year and thus giving Bosh even more reason to walk.
So, instead he pulls a half ass move during the season and what? Expects the team to gel better? These guys are miraculously going to start playing well off each other? Chemistry issues are solved now?
And then Matrix walks.. BC starts bringing in other dudes that need time to gel with Bosh? What’s the difference? No move will convince Bosh to stay, he’s gonzo already. I have no clue what Bryan is doing, other then creating an environment where no one is coming unless he is overpaying large.
a 1st rounder & marcus banks? arse, fixing a mistake that was clearly a mistake and not a calculated risk isn’t something to pat liar on the back for.
and i swear to god, if he signs boozer, i’m done with this team. boozer is more injury prone then jo, with half the heart.
as far as making a play for someone in 2010…i want joe johnson. i would give him a blank check. he would be perfect with this lot. the other guys aren’t coming here, we know that, but jj might be pursuaded, maybe.
IF Marion plays well, I got no issue signing him to a 3yr deal at 8M per. If BC’s able to do that he’ll have done what he should’ve done last summer – sign that defensive minded wing that could slash. Look at it this way, if we had traded for Marion last summer would you complain?
The picks hurt, they really do and I already said in my post how much that could potentially hurt the franchise but if he can sign someone like I mentioned to the MLE, re-sign Marion and maybe have a good draft this year, things won’t be as bad. Now, this could backfire if Marion walks, we barely sneak into the playoffs next year and Bosh doesn’t see any reason to resign.
Also, what makes you think we can’t make a play for JJ in 2010? If Marion walks and we are able to trade one of Banks or Kapono, we’ll have the space to get it done. Even if we sign Marion to a deal, we’ll still be able to make a play for JJ but it would involve going over the tax (and of course trading Kapono).
My point is that its always easy to shit on people and see the flaws in something but you also have to at least mention and point out the positives that can come out of any transaction.
an 8/$24m is a bit high, but it wont break the bank.
as far as positives, you are right, gotta point them out…uhm…bc did something he should have done 8 months ago.
“If you have to criticize Colangelo, do it because he took on Marcus Banks and gave up a first round pick, not because he didn’t hang on to JO for another year almost guaranteeing us sucking next year and thus giving Bosh even more reason to walk.”
Wait, so if HO stayed here, we would be guaranteed a “sucking” team again next year? Even with HO???? Come on man, you were a fan of the trade and basically manhugged the guy after every game. Pick a side!
We were sold a bill of goods up and down this preseason. HO was a good gamble because, if he didn’t work out, we could use his cap space in 2010. This was the best team on paper. Dead wrong on both counts.
Colangelo is treading water and quickly getting pushed further and further out into the ocean, no matter which way you slice it.
Read my earlier post, I already said that the reason we suck is not because of JO but because our perimeter defense is non-existent (remember, dribble penetration combined with slow rotations = everybody looks bad, especially your prime off-season acquisition who went out to help but nobody covered him).
Even when the JO trade was made, I said we needed another move to sure up the wing D but that never happened, instead we got Hassan Adams and Will Solomon. JO in itself was NOT a problem, the team lacked overall depth at the PG, SG and SF and I’m glad we finally addressed one of those (hoping Marion works out).
So how is our “interior presence” addressed now?
And yeah, Arse, it is worth mentioning the POTENTIAL POSITIVE outcomes, it’s just that most people hang all their hopes on those while completely dismissing the negative ones.
Oh, I read it, where you threw Bargs under the bus. We came into this season knowing he was a crappy defender and possibly worse rebounder. How would the addition of HO change that? Better still, how does moving HO and bringing in a possible solution to what you say was our problem address said problem? Now we are weaker down low, unless you think Man Mountain Jake is gonna intimidate the centres in the east. Oh, right, we have Andrea, whom you already have fingered as being weak on D.
There are almost 450 votes now in the poll and only 15% of those people find this to be a bad deal. That is shocking to me.
well, kind of an unfair poll. You give people a “maybe” option, and most will take it.
Liking a trade or not is such a subjective thing as it is.
Agree with Dave..the court of public opinion is not always judicious. If it was, the JO trade would have worked out better for the Raps, the 76ers would be challenging for the Eastern Conference throne, and Lil’ Wayne would get more air time.
Why Dave? 95% of the fan base is between eleventeen and 21, full of never ending optimism. Things can only get better for them, never worst.
Dude,
You NEED some prozac, I’m convinced of this.
So, not only are you a part time NBA GM, you are also a MD? Any thoughts on the crisis in the Middle East? You wanna solve that for us? Famine in Africa? Cure for cancer or AIDS? A man of your talents, surely can find time for these little issues.
So……….no on the Prozac then?
Oh Well.
delfino/marion/graham/kapono
bargs/bosh/chris anderson/hump/jawai
calderon/ukic/banks.
Can’t harp too much on the pick(s) being included. $3M is worth more than a late 1st and 2nd combined, this portion of the deal is actually in our favour.
We basically unloaded JO’s contract, that would have completely restricted us next season, for a managable toxic contract in Banks and huge flexibility in the off-season. I liked JO but he spent 1/3 of the time injuried and another 1/3 getting back into game shape…we could not afford that next year on what would have been a very thin roster. The trade had to be done if we have any chance of retaining CB4…and the trade can’t really be evaluated until the $3m is spent and we see what the off-seaons brings us. Let’s just enjoy the rest of the season with a new twist.
Exactly. You can buy 1 or 2 picks with that 3Mil, especially in this economy. Mid/Late round picks are a crap-shoot at best anyway. For every MoPete there are 10 Bradley’s and Arujo’s. JO’s contract was a restricting albatross. He was playing well enough to be an asset at a position that was overloaded, that needed to be used to address a need at another position. Besides, him and Bosh did not function well on the floor together since they both like to operate in the same manner and flow.
It’s not a killer deal but it’s a fair deal that needed to be done. Keeping JO was not a good option with the crap we have at the 3 position and the lack of room to operate under the cap to improve the team. Now at least there is a fighting chance to make moves to improve the team. Let’s see what BC does between now and the start of next season.
BC DID NOT GIVE BANKS HIS CONTRACT. Colangelo was already with the Raps for six months when Banks signed his contract with Phx.
depressed bloggers is fools gold
take it like a man we needed perimeter defense more then inside presence for the moment that ab7 shows up
marion – bosh – bargnani is decent enough
with jose and ap in the backcourt
when you lose idiots say dumb things
this team is under performing ….
whining never helps
trades might so stop whining bloggers
…bunch of wannabee gm’s make me laugh.so negative.so fucking pathetic.the matrix and marcus havent even played one game and bitches are crying and lamenting the horrors of this move.lmao….if we start to win and run some games off,the negativity will cease and the [edited and replaced with:] talent of Andiamo will begin……the nba,where fickle bitches happen……what is wrong with you people?
“where people believing Jay Triano will make you a million times better” happens HORNS UP!!! MATRIX BABY!!
No Prozac as yet?
ur prozac shi** is too funny!!!LMAO!!!
Dave,
————————————-
There are almost 450 votes now in the poll and only 15% of those people find this to be a bad deal. That is shocking to me.
————————————-
This FACT should not be shocking to you at all … if you consider the Raptors fanbase and who exactly is voting in that poll.
If Jeff Van Gundy himself told the vast majority of Raptors fans that:
* Chris Bosh’s best position in the NBA is Center [not PF]
* Jose Calderon is a better Starting PG than TJ Ford
* Acquiring a player like J-O’Neal, alone, would not effectively address their Rebounding Differential Deficiency this season [when Nesterovic was also going the other way]
* Kris Humphries is a serviceable Big who can Start [as a limited minutes player] or come off the bench [as an energetic rebounder/defender/quasi-scorer]
* Joey Graham’s best position in the NBA is Small Forward [not PF]
* Jamario Moon’s is a highly serviceable player in the NBA who can be effective as an OG or a SF or a PF, depending on who his teammates are
* Anthony Parker’s best role to play for a solid NBA team is as the Back-up Off Guard/Point Guard
they would still not believe him.
Why is that?
Because these Raptors fans Truly, Madly, Deeply believe that THEY know more about the NBA game and the authentic strengths and weaknesses of the Raptors’ players/coaches/management than anybody else does.
dumb.
You clearly have everything figured out. Why don’t you take the pulpit and drop the Van Gundy mask you hide behind? Because it’s pretty evident that each of your points are “truths” that you’ve have discovered with your vast scouting experience… oh wise one. Please continue to enlighten the simple masses…
You are still a douche bag.
*and youre a sweet gay*
seriously, this analysis is a overly bitter, and comes off as if you are just grinding an axe against BC. chill out….. i don’t quite remember everyone being so adamantly against this deal before, even though its been on the table for a month and was always rumoured to include Banks ….Feschuck, you and other BC haters just waited until it was made then shit your pants
my main complaints…
2 first round picks sound pretty bad, but they’re both mid to late first round picks…..and one is possibly deferred for years….big deal
marion is a much better fit for this team than o’neal….read your own blog about what the raptors need to improve….sure, we won’t run like D’Antoni’s Suns, but Marion is just what we need; a decent 3 who can defend wing players
this team has completely underachieved….this balance out, and you have to be stupid to think they’re really a 21-34 or whatever team….contender? definitely not, but this is at least a .500 team….things will turn around eventually, especailly now that we’ve addressed our main weaknesses
look, i’m not saying its a great deal or anything, or that BC is a genius deserving of our deference….but please just pull your head out of your ass for a second….things aren’t fucked, and this trade is a good start to getting us where we need to be.
fuck you
relax yoko. i’m not upset with marion coming, just that we took banks AND gave up a 2nd round pick next year, and a 1st rounder down the line. this team has given up far too many draft picks over the years, which is evident in the lack of young players we have considering we have been a bottom of the barrel team for so many years.
you’d rather have the same team next year??
when you’re trying to impress bosh into staying??
how is getting some cap room before that point going to hurt us??
what, were did we lose out on the lebron sweepstakes?? seriously??
And if you’re going to make a leap it will involve getting a SF/SG who is on the cusp of becoming a star not some guy whose best years are behind him. Ariza? Gordon? Maybe one of them is that guy. And each will likely be available far more cheaply than the stars of 2010. Odds are some team, maybe more than one, will seriously overpay someone in 2010 and sink like a stone as a result. 2009 isn’t a great market, especially for wings, but guys are going to go cheap and there might be a quality player or 2 in there. Personally, I don’t think Marion will fit here. He hasn’t really fit anywhere for awhile.
And BC didn’t sign Banks, D’Antoni did after BC left. There’s plenty to criticize without making things up.
And BC doesn’t lie.
http://www.raptorshq.com
i’m really looking forward to seeing how this lineup performs in the 27 remaining games of the season:
PG: Jose Calderon/Anthony Parker
SG: Joey Graham
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Andrea Bargnani
what Shawn Marion brings to the table for the Raptors cannot be summed up with stats.. namely defense, rebounding, and intensity. well, you can measure rebounding stats, but what isn’t measured is the number of increased offensive possessions the Raptors will get as a result of Marion’s offensive rebounding skills. if you look at what the Raptors desperately needed this season from the wing positions, it’s EXACTLY what Shawn Marion brings: defense, rebounding, and intensity.
in my opinion, the trickle effect of having Shawn Marion on the Raptors is huge:
- he guards the opposing team’s best player every night, allowing Anthony Parker/another SG to save energy on the defense and have better shooting nights on the offense
- he becomes the defensive leader on the floor, bringing intensity and experience and results
- finally, there will be someone rebounding (or trying to rebound) on offense and hopefully this becomes contagious, leading to more offensive possessions (side note: has anyone noticed that there is usually noone close to the basket when the Raptors run their iso-one-shot-and-backpeddle offense?)
- he can guard pretty much anyone from power forwards to point guards
- another note about rebounding: his rebounding numbers (9-10rbs/game) basically make up for Bargnani’s, and then some. in some ways he’s actually a perfect compliment to bigs who play away from the basket
as for offense.. you can expect Marion’s numbers to increase to 15pts 10rbs on the Raptors as he will be much more involved here than he was with the Miami Heat. has anyone seen Miami play? the ball is in Dwayne Wade’s hands 75% of the time and everyone else pretty much gets the leftovers. on the Raptors, Marion will be relied on much more and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.. does anyone have a problem with 15pts 10rbs from the SF position? didn’t think so.
now the Raptors are a Ben Gordon signing away from being pretty damn good =)
also, what I don’t think this post takes into account is, what happens if BC doesn’t make this trade and holds on to play in the coveted 2010 bonanza and does so with exactly….what??
do you really think bosh sticks around for a couple of seasons because he’s told that one day, one special day in the very near future we’re going to have all this money and we’re going to buy ourselves a championship and you’re going to be a part of it!!!
don’t think so. something needed to be done now. was JO a mistake? 20/20 says, obviously, yes. but the thought of 2 dynamic bigs was pretty enticing. he tried. he failed. it’s the way of the world, and, especially, business. looks to me like he’s still trying.
the summer will decide what this trade means and how the cookie really crumbles.
LOL
Bryan and larry Tanenbaum were in Phoenix this for the all star trip and were in a jovial mood and were smiling the whole trip.
No wonder.
Perfect time to jump start ticket sales for MLSE and reassure fans that we are trying to win..bla bla bla. No better way to put more asses in the seats by making a lateral move that won’t do fuck all and selling hope. No wonder they were so happy. More money will be pouring in at the ACC.
These people are MONEY MAKERS not basketball men ( Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, Danny Ainge )
someone should ask our GM..
Was this trade made to put us in a position to make a long run in the playoffs or was this done to reach the 8th spot and rake in as much money as you can before get eliminated?
Here’s where I really disagree with all the MSLE money grubbing thoughts.
In the case where we don’t make the play-offs, we simply get another rookie who might or might not be good, but we won’t know till after 2010.
If we do make the play-offs, yes, it will mean more money in MSLE’s coffers. But it also means that spending more (and even exceeding the luxury tax) may channel more to the bottom line. Where 2 rounds of play-off revenue might be the tonic to rationalize spending.
No matter what one thinks of MSLE, they are a business. And as such, they operate on returns. If those slacken off – profits that be – then cuts become reality. If BC can entice the Teachers Union to see that going over the luxury tax may actually make more money for them, then I suspect such a case would bear fruition. BC would have his money.
Of course, that would mean we have one less thing to bitch about. On second thought, maybe it’s not such a good idea – the trade that is.
3 Million is going toward CDN dollar differential, not draft picks.
You guys are a bunch of losers! do you even have a GIRLFRIEND/BOYFRIEND? thats YOU RAPS FAN..YOU FUCKING FAG! You spend most of your time critizing moves made by a gm that the fans of the Raptors should be thrilled to have running this team..would you prefer Isiah or Ragcock? I have read the posts on here and it gives some good POSITIVE insight, but bashing the gm because he is being proactive is getting old! you should bash the players or coach or your boyfriend!
YOKO….There is not a snowball chance in hell that Lebron, Kobe, Wade would sign with the Raps! Dude you must be smoking Lennons Cock to think that would happen!
This team needs a competant bench to be a contender..not Will Solomon or ROKO..
Spudz,
Charlie V is far from being my “type” of player but … in large part … I agree with you that the first TJ Ford trade which Colangelo made is what’s set much of this current train-wreck into motion.
Impatience when a situation seems to be going awry … and the need to make an immediate improvement in a team upon first getting the job … can be a deadly combination for a GM in this league.
[as opposed to what Kevin Pritchard and Sam Presti are doing now in Portland and Ok City, respectively]
Raptors to be a player in 2010? Lebron, Wade … coming to Toronto? You can’t be serious. I lived in Toronto for 10 years, and loved it, but this falls under the category of Toronto “Center of the Universe” thinking TO residents have. Maybe in the NHL, or compared to other bumpkin Canadian cities (love ya though Winnipeg), but in the NBA circles, Toronto is an outpost. Second rate. There is no way in hell Lebron, Wade, Durant, Kobe … any players of that level ever choose Toronto. Especially, given the competition in 2010 – NYC, Miami, Chicago, Detroit. Seriously, move away from the bong. Colangelo knows this, so he’s trying to see what he can dig up before then, because in 2010, we could end up with no one, including Bosh. I still think best case scenario is to move Bosh next year for younger, cheaper, high potential assets.