You could even look past that shot if it wasn’t accompanied by the grin.Alright, let’s get the Jamario Moon hate out of the way early. Sure, he was probably dropped on his head when he was young and then run over by an off-road vehicle. Repeatedly. Yup, that’s the only explanation of why he did what he did yesterday, there can be no other. You have to be dumber than dirt to even try the stunt he pulled. Either he’s got a voice in his head controlled by Mike Woodson which tells him what to do or he’s, well, just plain dumb. The Raptors after playing a solid game were in the midst of some utterly idiotic behavior late in the fourth which included Joey Graham looking off Bosh and taking a contested jumper, Bosh dribbling it off his foot and Moon looking like a landmine had got him when he was faked by Joe Johnson. All this commotion resulted in the Raptors getting the ball back being down one with 41 seconds left. Anthony Parker made the fatal mistake of passing it to Moon on the wing who had made his mind up to shoot four possessions ago and launched a contested 26-footer which clanged violently off the rim. To make matters worse, he follows it up with the grin, you know, the grin?
The Hawks end the game on a 7-2 run as the Raptors come up empty on their last five possessions and further solidify the perception that they’re chokers, have a look at the play-by-play to end the game.
1:46 Roko Ukic turnover 84-82 1:15 Joey Graham misses 9-foot jumper 84-83 0:50 Chris Bosh lost ball (Josh Smith steals) 84-85 0:35 Jamario Moon misses 26-foot three point jumper 84-85 0:02 Jason Kapono misses 26-foot three point jumper 84-87
Triano had two timeouts in his pocket when Moon launched his jumper and should have called one as soon as Bosh got the rebound. After the failures of the three earlier possession and the inability displayed by the team in the late stages of the Phoenix and Indiana games, it was too obvious of a decision. The Raptors have not shown the mental toughness or basketball decision-making skill to execute “on the fly” in these stretches. We don’t have a player who can analyze a situation and create off the dribble for himself or his teammates, this team needs to be spoon-fed and down one with 35 ticks left is when a coach earns his money. Triano, inexplicably, chose to let the players figure it out and it led to Moon’s brain fart. Later on, he touched on the mental toughness and the decision not to setup a play.
Our mental toughness has to get better, we have to finish of possessions, quarters, halves and games. We didn’t execute down the stretch at either end of the floor in the last minute and a half and it cost us the game. Part of my job is to teach them mental toughness, if it means diagramming more plays, taking more timeouts, we have to do it. In situations like that you look to exploit mismatches and I thought we had good flow, we had the ball in a one-point game. We had two timeouts but you want to save them in case you want to advance the ball later on but you have to get a better shot than that [Moon's jumper].
I don’t know if mental toughness can be taught, I think you either have it or you don’t.
Moon, Bosh and Bargnani took the same amount of shots in the fourth quarter – four. Either Bosh or Bargnani aren’t getting the ball and aren’t being assertive, or Jamario Moon is at the same offensive level as those guys. The Raptors have gone away from Bargnani in the fourth quarter in three straight games – all losses. Clutch execution was a problem with this team under Mitchell and we tended to blame the problems on him, but we’re seeing similar patterns in the fourth quarter under Triano. There’s a little too much one-on-one play which would be okay if we had the talent to pull it off, but since we don’t it ends up looking very bad. The Raptors’ inability to execute in the clutch is something that’s been talked about in this space for over two years and I’m sorry to report that nothing has changed. Bosh’s game isn’t fluid enough for these moments nor does he possess the skill-set to be the creator in the fourth quarter and it ends up with finishes like these. We should note that if Calderon was playing we would’ve had a better chance of executing with under two minutes and might’ve won a couple of these. The trouble we had making an entry-pass into Bosh as Smith was fronting him was unreal, I’m not saying Jose would’ve made that pass but at least he wouldn’t have shied away from it like Roko. Speaking of Bosh in the post, still would like to see him fight for position harder and pin his man on his back and demand for the ball rather than meekly ask for it knowing that the PG would be risking a steal if he tried the pass. As for Bargnani’s lack of touches, the fix should be mandated from the bench, Roko and Will don’t have the experience to recognize these sorts of things.
The overall effort today was much better than against Indiana or Chicago and one can honestly say that the Raptors deserved to win this game after leading for most of it. I was actually proud of this team after the first half, we had 24 points in the paint and were holding the Hawks to 39% shooting. We established Bosh and Bargnani in the blocks and were +6 on the boards, if there was one word to describe the offensive play of our guards, it was aggressive. We ended the quarter on a 10-4 run which included one of the best Raptor plays of the season, a Moon theft of Bibby followed by him running the break and being found by Bosh for the jam, that play characterized the first half. We rightfully had a 9-point halftime lead which seemed too good to be true given what happened to us the last time we were in this building. Check out the second quarter Raptors shot-chart. It’s beautiful.
Bargnani was 5-7 in the first half and was giving Zaza Pachulia all kinds of fits as he should. Josh Smith has issues guarding Chris Bosh, Bosh averaged 26+ against the Hawks last year and today he took him to the rim and drained a couple jumpers for 8 first quarter points. Anthony Parker got the call at PG again and unlike Nash, Bibby lit him up early scoring the first 7 points for the Hawks. The pick ‘n roll defense was slightly better in the first half as Parker was doing a good job of trying to fight through the screen instead of lazily switching against the jumper-happy Bibby. There was a defensive energy that you just knew couldn’t last.
As the second half started the pick ‘n roll defense got worse. Bibby was allowed wide open jumpers off the screen for one of two reasons. 1) The pick-setter’s man was caught in a screen somewhere under the basket and wasn’t even there to show or hedge leaving Bibby open. 2) The Raptors went into switching mode which presented the Hawks with matchups like Bibby/Johnson vs Bosh/Voskhuhl. The Raptors were also over-helping by using a man from the weakside to help on drives on the strong-side. I know, it doesn’t make any sense but Bargnani, Parker and Graham were caught in a few such positions and no matter how great your rotations are, if you have to cover that much space you’re not going to close-out.
Mike Woodson did something very smart in this game, when Parker was playing the point he switched Joe Johnson on him and had Mike Bibby take Jamario Moon, almost challenging him to take advantage. The Raptors went to Moon on the block but he couldn’t take advantage of the 6″ difference in height. The Hawks didn’t even have to send help, Moon either passed the ball up or took low-percentage shots. As has been the theme all season with the team, we don’t have enough players that command double teams and when a situation like this arises, we have to make them pay. Josh Smith who was being tempted to shoot early was suddenly being played tight by Bargnani and Bosh and he was wise enough to cut to the rim and was found by the Hawks’ guards for six third quarter points. Bosh had one in the frame as the Raptors were all perimeter, check out the third quarter shot-chart if you don’t believe me.
The fourth started with the Raptors precariously hanging on to a two point lead. We would either go back to our first half play and take it to the Hawks inside, or settle on the perimeter and give up the lead. We did the latter. Two turnovers and a missed jumper from Roko Ukic, a turnover and a missed jumper from Chris Bosh and a missed 16-footer from Jamario Moon (you guessed it, the defense sagged) resulted in a 8-3 Hawks run which put them up 3. Timeout Toronto. Roko committed four costly fourth quarter turnovers and Bosh had 2 in the quarter. If you want a reason why we lost this game, look no further. The back-to-back threes drained by Murray and Evans because of overhelping pushed the lead to 7 but the Raptors fought back and tied the game on an uh-oh Moon three and later on he told us in his Dickensian way that that three was the reason why he later took the other one:
It felt like a good shot. I had just made one before that and you know, when AP passed it to me I caught it in rhythm and took it and missed it. I guess everybody’s upset with me that I missed the shot. You gotta live with it.
As for Bosh yelling at him, he gave the reason:
I was guarding Joe Johnson. He told me that I gave him too much of a straight-line drive, we were forcing him to his weak hand and he just told me that I gave him too much of a straight-line drive.
A bit hypocritical of Bosh, no? And Moon’s the only player he sees having faulty man-to-man defense? He himself was getting schooled by Josh Smith in the second half, maybe he should clean his own act up before preaching to others. I can’t imagine his words carrying any weight when he dishes out advice to his mates. BTW, Parker, Graham and Ukic were making defensive mistakes all around but he only had the cahones to pick on Moon. Brutal.
After Moon’s miss, the Hawks got the ball and we saw first-hand what an All-Star caliber wing can do for your team. Atlanta isolated him on Anthony Parker and he created space and drained the jumper over Parker’s good defense. A great clutch shot by Johnson when his team needed him the most, that’s what All-Stars are for, that’s what max-money players should do for you. Kudos to him for nailing that one, it sucks from a Raptors’ perspective but as a basketball fan you got to love that kind of confidence. The Raptors got the ball back and set screens for Kapono on the wing who had a contested look which he would’ve gotten off, instead in typical Kapono style he tried to do too much and tried passing it to Bargnani in the corner. The pass was deflected, game over. Triano said the play had two options, one for Kapono to take the shot or if he was covered, to pass to Bargnani in the corner. He probably should’ve just taken it.
We did see some good things again as we usually do. Bargnani finished with 20/10 after cooling off in the second half, he’s averaging 21 points, 6.6 rebounds and shooting 52% in 2009. Is it safe to say he’s turned the corner? His development is one of the few things to look forward to as this season moves closer and closer to become apathetic. Chris Bosh had 22/14 but what you’ll remember most from this game about him is how Josh Smith was scoring on him in the second half and that crucial turnover which can only add fuel to the fiery chant that he’s not a clutch player. I certainly think that he gets flustered in late-game situations and doesn’t have the composure needed of a franchise player. Unless he manages to completely beat his man on the blow-by move, he has trouble scoring because he cannot take contact, adjust his shot and finish. It’s just not in him.
Anthony Parker with 12 points, 9 assists and 9 rebounds. He seems to have found a groove and that’s excellent for his trade value. I hate to think of things in those terms but having him start at PG might have more to do with showcasing than actual strategy. Colangelo’s not a stupid man, he knows what the probable and realistic end to this season will be and is gauging his options. If he can get a first round pick for Parker I’d hand him his third EoY.
Roko Ukic had a decent offensive game but his turnovers were back-breakers. The kid needs to tighten up his handles and learn to dribble with the ball on his side rather than protecting it with his back. He had some nice blow-bys against the Hawks’ unassuming defense but as I said, I have a very hard time looking past his turnovers which really hurt us. Will Solomon never got in the game for whatever reason, not too sure what Triano’s plan is as to when which one plays. You can check the Roll Call for additional player analysis along with the usual humor. For more on the game and just about everything Raptors related, check the Latest Web Articles throughout the day.
Best Lineup: Ukic, Parker, Bargnani, Moon and Bosh. +6 in the 2nd quarter. Worst Lineup: Graham, Parker, Bargnani, Moon and Bosh. -6 in the 3rd. Graham, Kapono, Ukic, Moon and Bosh were also -5 to start the fourth.
11 games under .500. I’m just waiting on official word from the Raptors that this season’s goal has switched from challenging for a high-seed to……fill in the blank.
142 Raps
Between Moon and Solo-man jacking 3’s early in the clock in crunch time, Bosh needs to straighten them out.
LOL at the Moon Pic too – I hate Moon’s shiny hillbilly smile. We need Bosh to fix it up (loosen it up).
Aside: Mad Congrats to the worldwide Raptors Republic community for your support and contribution to helping us get selected to represent the Toronto Raptors fan base on ESPN’s True Hoops Blog Network.
MASSIVE PROPS!! (BOH!!) :D
moon is the reason they loose every game the other team does not even guard moon they leave him open and let him shoot and he really really needs to stop smiling. Moon should sit on the end of the bench and face the the other way and not be aloud to watch. …..I cant stand him he is not a basketball player he is a dum athlete that is it ..not a basketball player.
“Speaking of Bosh in the post, still would like to see him fight for position harder and pin his man on his back and demand for the ball rather than meekly ask for it knowing that the PG would be risking a steal if he tried the pass.”
Thank you! Bosh is 80% to blame on those entry passes that don’t get made. He’s asking for the ball 16 feet from the rim and his man’s all over him. Thats a TO waiting to happen.
how many more times is this team gonna look off bargs in the post.the guy battles for position down low on every possession.he clearly has skills yet is looked off repeatedly.then he has no choice but to saunter out to the top of the key to open up the paint.yet none of our fucking scrubs takes it to the hole.then they ditch him the ball for a bail out…..fuck man.this shits gotten old.the motherfucker hits an effortless 3 in boston and doesnt get the rock in crunch time again?.
agree, there was one possession late in the fourth where bargs had bibby on him with deep post position, bosh had the ball at the top of the key…looked like he thought about passing it, but smith sloughed off him, so he took the 20-footer. it went down, so it’s all good, but still…i’d rather have bargs 6-ft from the hoop w/ bibby on him than have bosh take that shot.
and arse,triano has called timeouts to design plays only to have our bonehead players botch it.we have a very stupid team,very low iq.moon,graham and krapono have got to be the biggest offenders.couple that with bosh and his patented dribble off the leg and its a veritable shitstorm.today,triano rolled the dice on letting them play and what’d we get,mayhem, and the worst 90 seconds of ball i have ever seen.
…which was happening to Sam. Sam even called them out in interviews and had backup from both PGs last year that good plays were called and not run.
Still amazes me that, up until this comment here, the same stuff has been happening under Jay that was getting Sam ripped to shreds here and elsewhere. Time to point the blame at the person that deserves it.
sam was a tool.this team is struggling because they have sams idiotic stupidity embedded in their brains….using this occasion to lobby for an ex coach?.when our players disobeyed sam in crunch time its because they didnt want to run a basic pick n roll with bosh at the top of the key or iso to bosh or tj….how soon people forget sams brilliance and tj and hump playing hot potato.
chris bosh is just like pau gasol or shareef abdur-rahim, hes a PF wth some C and some SF skills.
all three of those players could play at a high (but not max) level, were labeled “franchise” players but proved to be otherwise.
compare their stats while they were “leading” their teams
Reef: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3098/career;_ylt=An_iDGhWiKM0trB1a1Byei0XPKB4
Pau:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3513/career;_ylt=An_iDGhWiKM0trB1a1Byei2OPKB4
Chris:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3707/career;_ylt=An_iDGhWiKM0trB1a1Byei3MPKB4
the similarities are uncanny…
I guess we really should have seen this coming. At least there are only 39 more games left (another 82 if no trades are done). I think Bosh (new GM) is just trying to flex his muscles and see if his frustrations effect the current GM or interim coach. By wheeling and dealing the team has got to the point where they have run out of players. The only real solution is to trade off what they can and go back to rebuilding with youth. At the ripe old age of 24 Bosh is frustrated with losing and will probably not stay past next year. So at some point the GM has to realize something is better then nothing. I really hope they can trade JO and move on.
Bosh and Barg’s and Jose are young enough to build around the glaring need at the wing spot must be filled fast. This would limit the minutes for Moon and give us the creator we are all craving a multi player deal using J.O contract is the answer.
Wow,talk about a “Moon Landing Bitch Slap by Bosh!!!”
Now…can someone return the favor to one Mr.Bosh.
I can remember when a certain Mr.Charles Oakley ripped a certain Mr.Carter a new asshole,now someone has to share with Mr.Bosh,that he has to lead by example….no blow bys,taking threes,dribbling off banged up knees,fouling certain individuals at the 3 point line….should I continue !!!!
Please Khandor stop making excuses for the kid,if he is a max playa,play like a max playa.
I can understand,without Jose,and JO,and a shit bench,that the task at hand is monumental…but we have been in most games to the end,and we blow it.
Is it coaching (doesn’t help)?
Is it clutch play and lack of experience?
No go to guy !!!,actually the big guy,who is wide open on a lot of occasions near the end of games doesn’t get to see the ball…because every teams scouts knows that Bosh is going to get the ball hang onto it for 6 to 10 seconds and launch a fade away jumper (thats correct) a fuckin fade jumper over a 6 foot mofo.
Arse,good recap once again,tks
We dont say it enough.
Pertaining to the outcome of yesterday’s game,
——————————-
re: the Hawks got the ball and we saw first-hand what an All-Star caliber wing can do for your team. Atlanta isolated him on Anthony Parker and he created space and drained the jumper over Parker’s good defense. A great clutch shot by Johnson when his team needed him the most, that’s what All-Stars are for, that’s what max-money players should do for you. Kudos to him for nailing that one, it sucks from a Raptors’ perspective but as a basketball fan you got to love that kind of confidence. The Raptors got the ball back and set screens for Kapono on the wing who had a contested look which he would’ve gotten off, instead in typical Kapono style he tried to do too much and tried passing it to Bargnani in the corner. The pass was deflected, game over. – by Arsenalist
——————————–
Raptors fans need to stop assigning blame for the team’s current failings to the wrong individuals.
Who is responsible for the FACT that Joe Johnson is an Atlanta Hawk today and not a Phoenix Sun?
Who is responsible for the FACT that the Raptors passed on Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay, in the 2006 NBA Draft Lottery?
Who is responsible for the FACT that the Raptors signed Jason Kapono as an UFA, are paying him $5 Mil/per, as a shooter/scorer exclusively, and are getting THAT type of crunch-time production from him?
It is not Jamario Moon’s fault that the Raptors lost yesterday’s game vs the Hawks … nor, Chris Bosh’s, Jose Calderon’s, Andrea Bargnani’s, Anthony Parkers, Joey Graham’s, Kris Humphries.
If you’re going to critique the Raptors play with credibility to those who understand how the NBA game works it’s important to be able to watch the game and look at the game stats and then assess the situation properly from a comprehensive and a specific standpoint.
Game Info [Tor @ ATL, Jan 19, 2008]
When the Raptors fired Sam Mitchell their W-L Rec’d was 8-9. Today their W-L Rec’d is 16-26.
There is only one person who is responsible for the present situation with the Toronto Raptors.
That is the person their fans SHOULD BE upset with, PERIOD.
===============================
d279,
It has nothing to do with making excuses for Bosh. It has to do with making accurate assessments or not.
Hmm.. True Hoops Network.
Good Job RR
I just noticed the ESPN link at the top. Wow, you guys are on the up and up. Nice going.
Only in this pathetic hockey town do you have the dumbest fanbase in the NBA nitpicking over a fucking bonehead play by a chronically fucking boneheaded player who didn’t put himself into the starting lineup of a fucking NBA team and should never have been there in the first place.
The problem is at the top and the blame starts at the fucking top and trickles down through from the top….
There is no fucking excuse for Moon even being in the starting lineup of an NBA team…he is what he is and is never going to change…just like O’Neal was so obviously a fucking broken down cripple that wasn’t going to help anyone…another obvious fact that the cretins here couldn’t see…
Here’s another one: Bosh is the next fucking Pau Gasol waiting to go to a real team with a real leader who can spoonfeed him the way he needs to be to contribute to a winning team.
I know it’s really hard to get into your fucking dense little craniums, what with having to manage your allowances and your pimples and all, but Bosh is not a fucking go-to guy….never has been and after 5 years of convincing you fucking drips that he is and that the team will die without him, the Raptors are going to have to seriously look at trading him for some strong young prospects and rebuilding and enduring the shitstorm of wails from the “In Bosh We Trust” swirsky-loving, Carter-booing cretins who make Toronto an embarrassment.
This team was effectively killed by the unbelievably stupid O’Neal trade and because nothing can be done now to get the All Star calibre wing players or depth that are REQUIRED to do anything more than win “Team With the Dumbest Fanbase in the NBA”, let alone even hope to get back to mediocre, they are going to have to entertain the thought of rebuilding.
http://www.celticsblog.com – go there, now! They’re assholes (well their team is, the blog is actually pretty good) so you’ll fit in. Leave us dumbasses in peace. Really. The jokes getting old.
Nunya, (while ignoring your offensive language)
This team was killed long before the Oneal trade.
Take your pick of ridiculous moves from the Colangelo era:
-resigning Sam Mitchell to an extension
-lettin Mike James walk for nothing
-Bonner and Williams for Rasho? (trading away cap space for a huge contract no one wanted)
-trading Charlie V for TJ Ford
-drafting another PF with the #1 pick when you already had one as your franchise guy and then just traded another away?
-drafting Bargs over: Roy, Aldridge, Gay, Foye, etc.
-letting Garbajosa play in the Olympics
-not replacing Garbajosa’s grit or bball IQ
-letting John Salmons walk?
-replacing him with Fred Jones
-Jamario Moon
-Signing Kapono to a full midlevel deal?
-no significant free agent movement for 2 straight seasons
-trading TJ Ford (thats not the dumb part) but somehow failing to address any of the teams real needs in the process: like wing play- at the same time as depleting it of its onyl real strenght: the bench.\
-letting Delfino walk without replacing his grit, versatility, or bball IQ
-not firing Mitchell after the Orlando embarassment
-not getting in on the “Dantoni Sweepstakes”
-firing Mitchell 17 games into the season (in the middle of a raod trip and the hardest stretch in the schedule?)
-giving Triano the job over, um, Alex English- you know, the guy who sits next to him on the bench and is one of the 50 greatest players of all time
-not signing a guy like Duhon (who signed for the full midlevel with NYK for 2 years)or another PG in the offseason to back up Jose
-Roko Ukic, Joey Graham, and Kris humprhies as the first guys off the bench?
-giving Triano a vote of confidence for the ENTIRE season
-any of the following: will Solomon, Jake Voshkul, Nathan Jawai, Primo Brezec, Juan Dixon
And now for the list of excellent moves by Colangelo since coming to Toronto:
-extending Bosh (a no brainer but at the time a huge concern for fans)
-……?
Beuller? Anyone? Beuller?
Good thing he has “full control of basketball operations.” Id hate to see what this team might look like if Richard Peddie (the top dog at MLSE) actually had his hand in the jar.
I agree 100%
Junior is not qualified for the top post.He’s still a baby who needs his daddy
“a chronically fucking boneheaded player who didn’t put himself into the starting lineup of a fucking NBA team and should never have been there in the first place”
BINGO!
oh ya,
and a big shout out to all the members of the Republic for our addition to the ESPN family.
thats amazing and a testament to the hard work of all the guys in the front office.
keep up the good work!
phd,
FYI … Credit where credit is due
It’s amazing what seems to get certain individuals banned from certain web sites, while others are allowed to run free.
Propoganda and Kool-Aid usually go hand-in-hand.
——————————–
Some in the blogosphere have been correctly identifying the problems which exist with the Raptors’ franchise for a long, long time. : )
Do you just follow it then, as a money making proposition?
nadir,
To whom are you asking your question?
—————–
andiamo,
Who are you suggesting is trumpeting the virtues of the former Raptors’ head coach?
Someone’s reading comprehension skill is often difficult to gauge accurately on-line.
are you retarded?
Im with you for once. Literally I wanna punch this guy If I saw him.
andiamo,
Lobbying for a posters dismissal?
Who are suggesting has done that?
khandor,your the worst type of troll…are you angry your blog gets 0 hits,has 0 traffic and has 0 followers?…not getting the recognition you feel you deserve you narcissistic wanker.is that it?.is that why you religiously post links to your own blog here and trumpet your genius.are you mad that r.r. made it to espn and is adored by the raptor community?.is that why you are a condescending prick 24/7 and do nothing but toot your own horn and be a dick to everybody…mommy didnt love you as a child?.
LOL
whats with the language, people? what are you guys, Dirty Harry?
Khandor, if anyone was interested in your blog, they would just go there.
i actually went…almost vomited…and regretfully commented.
this guy is seriously the worst and he’s ruining a great blog that i was so happy to have stumbled upon with his need to hype himself up while attempting to make others feel bad about their opinion and basketball knowhow.
rodney carney…i get it dude…i get it.
Hey guys, like Peacedog states, what’s with the language?
As Arse has pointed out in the past, we get a lot of visitors to the site, but few comments. Why should people comment and have it lost in a sea of people that can’t make points without acting like bullies in a schoolyard?
Chill out and if you want to argue, great, we encourage it. If you want to lace everything with profanity, maybe we’ll just start deleting it or moving it to a page deep in the site so that nobody will ever see it.
Your cool, I have no prob with you or the rest of the writers I just cant stand this other clown.
This finnock kills the vibe of this site and it starts to distract me from basketball when his posts are like bibles.
Get rid of him
Mental toughness can’t be taught, but it can be learned. What I mean by this is that you cant sit down a weak player and instruct him how to be tough, something has to happen that brings out the toughness in him.
lmao…i checked all the blogs affiliated with true hoops,none of them have the following and posters that rr have.look at the blogs?0 comments,O comments,0 comments.its a coup for true hoop to have r.r. and most of those blogs are just filler for them.congrats khandor,nobody cares fruitcake.onto ball.
Six weeks ago I had a conversation with a TSN employee who has been on the Raptor beat – since there was a Raptor beat. At one point, the subject of Jamario Moon came up. What he said was relatively jarring, but, until yesterday, it didn’t really hit home.
“Jamario just doesn’t get it. In a timeout there will always be a coach assigned to tell Jamario – and Jamario alone – exactly what he has to do. And he’ll stare right at the coach, nodding. Sure enough, once they’re back on the floor Moon will do something that just leaves everyone baffled. In a bad way. I think he’ll be released before the end of the year.”
http://searchingfor93.com/2009/01/20/toronto-raptors-what-theyre-saying-14/
just wow.
To answer your first part, quite a few of those blogs use moderated comments, which we are/were against doing. From a personal perspective, I think it slows down the flow of conversation and opens it up to judgement calls. I look at some Raptors sites that do it and can see why people hate it. That said, the way things are going around here makes me want to propose it to the other guys….which is a real shame.
Congrats on the ESPN connection and thank you for the link love guys.
http://searchingfor93.com
LOL it doesn’t surprise but upsets me…i am interested to read what moon has to say about anything. its on my rss, waiting for an update. lol.
lmfao
About Jamario: That’s so funny and sad at the same time. Maybe the guy has ADD or something…? Seriously though, why not just bench him when he does something stupid like that? Its not like his skills are amazing. Just treat him like a 12th man (which he basically is) until he decides to listen. If not, then who cares, we really don’t lose anything (other then his trade value, which I don’t think exsists anyways).
2 solid drafts in 2007 and 2008 and we don’t move into the top 10 to select a wing? We couldn’t trade Ford and our 17 and move up? Discusting. Lets just select our 41st pick and be excited about it.
This GM is not qualified for the job.
We are building around Bosh, Bargs, Ford
Trade Ford
sign Kapono for MLE – now lets get rid of him
sign Delfino – let him walk the next season
Bargs is a center, now he’s a SF
Trade for Oneil – Get rid of him 4 months later
Roy is the top choice – select a Euro Powerforward
Resign Mitchell when SVG was looking for work
Does this sound like a great GM too you?
Me thinks he’s more of a salesman
MLSE hired him because he’s a great people person and can sell you tha the moon is flat. He’s a money maker
2006 we were supposed to rebuild and collect draft picks. But hey, lets pretend that were trying to be elite and sign some 30 yr old veterans from Europe. Screw the young talent.
We had people buying those In BC we trust t-shirts where are they now(lol). Barg’s,Bosh and Jose are a solid core add a creator on the wing(Howard) and a tough defensive minded starter(Artest) and then you really have something can Bryan make it so..who knows?
niqquh be fair to Colangeleo,
1. I am assuming he had to trade one of ford or calderon because of their lack of chemistry as both wanted to be a starter. I was one who supported keeping Calderon at the time, and I still do now. For all of Calderon’s defensive woes, Ford’s would have been the same considering every middle size point guard has about 3 inches and 40 pounds on him.
2. Kapono for full MLE was just a terrible move, I have to agree with that
3. Because of the trade of O’Neal, he had to let Delfino walk. Even if he hadn’t signed O’Neal, Delfino was getting i think 9 million a year (i think it was 6 million net) and if I was Colangeleo, I wouldnt of matched it, that is way too much of a cap hit for a role player.
4.I thought O’Neal would a good trade, but it doesnt seem the case because of his injury woes and Bargnani’s development. But consider this, had Bargnani not developed, do you think people would be calling for this trade. Three weeks ago and Bargnani was struggling like crazy and O’Neal was our only real option beside Bosh (I know some people are campaigning for Hump). It all about perspective.
5. There was no real clear cut choice for the top pick. It was a coin toss between Bargs, Roy, Aldrige, Gay and Thomas. Bull apparently wanted Bargnani too so we couldnt trade down. I wanted either Roy or Thomas, so I would have had a 50/50 shot, and that was what that draft was; a crapshoot. Remember, Roy went 6th, he clearly wasn’t a surefire top pick.
6. SVG is comfortable as a commentator, I don’t think he would have taken the Raptors job
I agree with some of your points
1. The mistake here was not getting a NBA ready back up for Jose
2. Horrible move
3. Delfino would have stayed for less, could have played a bit of a role like Parker, maybe wanted a 3-4 year deal. The J.O trade was done to give Barg’s more time to develop and backfired a Jeff Foster type of back up would have been cheap insurance if Barg’s faltered early in the season.
4.The trade was a huge risk still feel it was more about the contract which can still be turned into the wing player and back up at the point that we really need.
5.Correct however he wanted Barg’s who is starting to look like the real thing
6.Correct
Bryan’s next move is huge.. you move J.O for sure can you get Howard or Marion because this season maybe lost.
Kapono was a shocking move. After we had lost to the Nets, our most glaring needs were rebounding and wing defense yet our main summer signing was a guy who did neither.
Now I actually understand BC’s line of thinking when he made that move. He saw Mikki Moore and Josh Boone frustrate Bosh in the paint as the Nets showed double and Colangelo thought he could just space out the court with another shooter. It’s an understandable but simplistic line of thinking, he chose to try to open up the floor by adding a role player instead of adding a second double team threat which would really free up Bosh.
IIRC he inked him on the first day of free agency so he was damn sure about him from the start.
i was with you untill you said “Roy is the top choice – select a Euro Powerforward”…roy was never ever considered at #1.not even on the radar.
Give me, for the longevity and popularity of the franchise
Kevin Pritchard
Danny Ainge
Danny Ferry
Otis Smith
2 years ago at this time The Raps were all better then the above. BC, he was a genius and those teams were a disaster
Now, it turns out that they are the better basketball minds.
And in another 2 years? GM’s are long-term guys. Coaches and players are here to worry about the next few games. This constant call for firing people is pretty shallow analysis in my opinion. No doubt, BC’s moves since the ‘06 offseason have not been good. So Raptors fans of all stripes are currently left with mediocre ownership and a GM who is mediocre right now and only has one stretch of solid work in his resume (the D’Antoni Suns). But we’re all stuck with Colangelo for at least the next season and I’d say more. He’s been bad before (e.g. Kidd for Marbury) and he’s been good after that (dumping Marbury and getting Nash et al.).
If I was the owner of this team, and considering who is actually available as a replacement GM, I’d keep him for one more run – one that might include figuring out what to do about Chris Bosh (resign him? trade him? use his cap space in 2010 for a different big? – these are open questions in my mind).
And MLSE will continue to own this team, probably for most of our lifetimes. So if there is something about that entity’s ownership of the Raptors that guarantees mediocrity, choose another team to cheer for. The whole corporate conspiracy angle is simple-minded too. There are actually worse individual owners out there. Colangelo’s former boss might be one of them.
“solid work in his resume” ? Really? How’s that?
the D’Antoni Suns – he was the GM there right?
Or are you one of those defence wins championships fundamentalists? I would’ve figured the Lakers thing means you’re not
there is an element of truth to defence winning championships. The lakers, while not the Pistons or San Antonio, or Boston, are pretty sound defensively. Kobe is as much a force on defence as he is on offence.
The Zen Master keep s them pretty disciplined defensively. He plays Ariza at the end of games for defensive purposes. Gasol and Bynum are also not bad themselves. Truth is, in the playoffs, games slow down.
The mistake is to think that you can win a championship without playing D. The Suns of old were the only team that could have managed this – but even they couldn’t seal the deal. I find it unlikely a team as good as them can be built in the near future.
that said: i want to give BC time to fix this situation. His project is to build a team for CB4. If this does not happen by 2010, then we can get out the pitchforks.
Come on BC, let’s get a decent team!
Verbatim, I hear what you’re saying but the D’Antoni Suns were a middle of the road defensive team. Play their first 3-4 seasons over again 10 times and I’d estimate they make the finals half the time. They got jobbed against San Antonio and by injuries the year (or was it 2 years?) before that. Check out the Truehoop archives for some links to how good the Suns were defensively. Hardwood Paroxysism has something on it too. (God I waste too much time on basketball)
And if Sarver had agreed to pay the tax like all individual owners do in our little “MLSE is the sole reason the Raptors suck”-universe, the Suns might have won a championship while eating sandwiches when the other team had the ball. Add Joe Johnson and Rajon Rondo to the core of the D’Antoni Suns and I think you have a team for the ages.
Im simply asking how his body of work with the Suns can be considered solid work. Forget chips. How many 1st round exits did he pile up? That’s solid? I guess we all have our parameters.
IMO, BC is just using the Raps as his 1st experience away from the Suns and daddy. Don’t get too fussy about who was holding what title, Paps was running the show. This will be BC’s real experience on how NOT to do things, or perfect his method at least.
He is an average GM and average GMs produce average teams. Besides eternal optimism, hope and singing Kumbaya, I have no idea what you guys are basing your BC expectations on. He has a year and a half left, according to his plan, to build a contender. The clock is ticking.
I agree with you pretty much. He’s got a year or 2. Maybe MLSE extends him but maybe not. For all the talk on the blog about tribal honking Raptors fans I’ve found the attitudes expressed on this site to be pretty much in line with what you hear in the ACC, at least in the 300 levels. If production from the team does not improve dramatically, I suspect MLSE feels it in the pocket book and acts accordingly. I think they’re going to feel it this summer and won’t make up the drop in ticket sales until the team starts winning consistently.
So the D’Antoni Suns were daddy’s work? OK. They were pretty solid work so if BC was the architect of that, he had one stretch of solid work.
Can I speculate on facts that support my argument in the face of the apparent reality the next time we mildly disagree about something? Cool.
I have to say until I stumbled across this group of bloggers (2yrs Ago) I thought my friends & I we’re the only people (In the World) who faithfully cared and followed the Raptors. We’d talk and complain about things never discussed by main stream media. It seemed like the main stream media’s favorite team was NOT the Raptors and they’d do a write-up based on stats & really have no idea why they lost.
I didn’t know about the ESPN things but…. it doesn’t surprise me…
The Raptors Republic… where no stone is left unturned!!
Keep it up people…
If the Fans at the game are the 6th man…. then we are the 7th man!
http://slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/01/frustrated-chris-bosh-throws-jamario-moon-under-the-bus/
nunya, flux, faq, joe post away
Chris: getting angry is not the same as leadership.
A very small post but a damn good one.
You can only start yelling if your own game is tight and event then that stuff is best left behind close doors. A stern talk is usually a lot more effective than yelling at a guy.
I also mentioned this in the article but it seems the only guy Chris has the balls to yell at is Moon. Don’t get me wrong, Moon’s guilty of a lot of dumb shit but so are Parker, Graham, Calderon and just about everyone else, especially on defense.
i want butterfingers to get into the opponent’s face before he gets into his teammates.
I wish Moon would get in Bosh’s face when he has Rondo on him in the post and Bosh decides to pass. That deserves “a pipe across that stupid grin/grill” Bosh gives in post game interviews. Not Moon trying to tie the game.
Yeah I left when I read that.
Chris, why are you afraid to play Boston, Detroit, Lakers and all those “good” teams with a winning record? I’m still waiting for the guy to take over a game and dominate it till the final buzzer. 6 years and counting.
SVG – Stan Van Gundy
Now coaching the Orlando Magic. And guess what…. There currently the best team in the L. and are only going to get better. Howard is a real leader with a desire to win and dominate. Beating Kobe, Duncan and Billups and crew on their home court is no small feat
Bosh ?
Niqquh, I think that’s as much a reflection of Rashard and Hedo and Bogans and Battie and the other veteran locker room leaders as it is Howard. No doubt is he a presence on the court but the team leader? I’m not sure he’s there yet. He’s still very much a kid inside, in all interviews and appearances I’ve seen.
Howard? Dwight Howard? The same guy whose coach has told both him and the media that he wishes he’d take the game more seriously, as well as practices, film sessions, etc? Good call. See him taking a lot of those end of game shots, huh?
remember everyone getting on Bosh for playing video games with his best friend Dwight? And everyone calls out CB4 for not taking his opponents seriously???
Well, if CB4 is guilty, so is Howard. And, IMO, if off the court he plays video games, so be it. After the Laker game LeBron and Kobe gave props to each other. Bosh gives Pierce props, and all of a sudden he is a pussy. Look, get angry with Bosh for other things. But don’t divert serious criticism to shit that other players do all the time, only those guys don;t play for your team, so you don;t see it.
When you are the beast D12 is, there is 0 need to take CB4 seriously. No need what so ever. The Pistons I bet he took seriously. The Raptors, all he had to do was show up. That’s it.
Both Lebron and Kobe have led the league in scoring and have played in the finals before. Kobe has rings and both make there team better. They can do whatever they want. They can play games and party all night because when the game starts, you know what to expect. Bosh, you have a young guy who is mentally weak and has not beat a good team on his own since forever. He will be critiqued
He does have support yes but with him as the “franchise” I don’t see the team chocking against elite teams, on the road, back to back, Do you? Howard is 20/20 always and instills confidence in his players. Yeah, Stan called him out to improve his outside game and he has. ( Mid range game is improving ) How would Bosh fare if he was replaced Dwight? Me thinks they would be a 4-5 seed and not a 1st in the East.
The principal issue I have with comparing Bosh to these other players is that they possess the elite athleticism that allows them to step onto a court each night knowing that when they want to, they can be unguardable. Bosh does not possess this athleticism – he does not have an unguardable shot or even a patented, unguardable move. When his game is on, he’s close to being unguardable, but he also needs people around him to create the room he requires to operate (again, elite athletes do not require this to nearly the same degree) and release valves for when he gets himself into a difficult position.
Essentially everyone that is asking Bosh to do is to use his talents to play way the hell over his head while surrounded by a team that doesn’t complement him, every night facing a defense whose one and only goal is to stop the Raps’ one and only weapon.
You want to judge Chris Bosh? Judge him for what he does once he gets a good coach and some help, when he can play a proper role that he, as a player, is suited for. Until then you can bitch all you like but he’s still just going to be yet another star player that the fans have heaped far too many expectations on.
As an aside, the idea of judging Bosh based on the fact that he hasn’t beaten an elite team ALONE is insane. Did you watch the Cavs vs Lakers last night Joey? Did you watch LeBron take jumper after jumper because noone else on his team could hit a shot, did you see how the defense sagged off of him, their one and only goal being to stop him?
Bosh isn’t the problem with this team, end of story.
I think that with Bargnani developing well now, we have very attractive pieces in place. We have three positions covered adequately well with pg: calderon/ukic, pf with bosh/hump and c: bargnani. I would give Colangeleo as much time that he wants if he meets these conditions.
1. get a solid wing player via the draft this year
2. get another solid wing player through trading O’Neal at next year’s trade deadline
3. Resign bosh to a contract extenstion
4. Resign bargnani to a contract extenstion
5. Trade Kapono (if possible) to gain MLE and salary cap relief
6. Resign Ukic, hump and Graham (if they show enough improvement)
I think we should measure GM performance not in time spent but in actions done. We know Colangeleo has made some mistakes, but he has done enough good times to give himself an opportunity to still create an elite team by 2010. Time will tell if he manages to do so.
The thing I’m most afraid of with the team is this: If Chris Bosh is your best player, can you be an elite team? I don’t think he is that guy. He’s in the top tier of second-best players in the league, but I don’t think he’s cut out to be the man, mentally or skill-wise.
If we do a resign-maxout with Bosh, do we have the cap flexibility to surround him with enough good players to go to the finals? I don’t think so. You need more than he brings for maxout money.
wholeheartedly agree.i think chris bosh is highly overated.his opportunistic rise was fabricated in the absence and shocking departure of vince for scrubs.they had no choice but to promote bosh.is he an elite level baller with the ability to be a game changer.no.and hes proven that…..in indiana,he gave granger a straight path to the bucket,then he bites on a dunleavy 3 with under a minute remaining to cost us the game,then he shits on moon?…i really hope we dont give him the max and stunt this team for years to come.
Watch Bargnani walk too and go to a contender. Deep down he wants to win and is tough minded but he’s stuck playing with scrubs.LOL
bargs needs to do this first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOzQnwhqFE&feature=channel_page
Dino – #1 in your list should’ve been done the year Colangelo came to town. He acquired TJ Ford instead and didn’t see Calderon’s potential. Now nobody knew that Jose was going to be good but isn’t a GM supposed to have an eye for these things. I mean, you and I should be forgiven for mistakes like those but the Raptors’ scouting and management should’ve at least seen the potential in Jose. Am I asking too much? Maybe.
If BC can get a first round pick for Parker, I will be ecstatic. If he can get a player with a shorter contract and another pick for Kapono, I’d consider this season a semi-success. If he’s able to unload O’Neal for Marion who’s contract ends this year, we’ll be in damn good shape. Of course, we might suck next year and risk losing Bosh but I’d deal with that at next year’s trade deadline.
Bosh to Miami. Howard and Brandon Bass + Miami’s first round picks for at least the next 2 years and some filler/guy with upside. Marion to Dallas. Worth thinking about? It’s the kind of thing I could see Colangelo thinking about. He makes mistakes (plenty of late) but he doesn’t cling to them.
Howard et al. to Toronto is what I meant
what you people don’t seem to realize is that bosh is still 24. sure he won’t reach lebron or wade levels (maybe he will) but he’s still only 24. in terms of skill set, i’m sure he works hard enough in the off season to add more to his game and improve on certain deficiencies but you guys have to cut the guy some slack. you’re comparing the guy to the wades and lebrons, that’s not fair to the guy because there’s only 2 or 3 of them every generation. what bosh is is an upper tier power forward that is still developing and improving and from what i see the sky is the limit. bargnani’s 24 and he’s not even close to bosh skill level yet. it’s all relative but you have to be realistic. remember, he’s 24.
bosh is 25 in less than 2 months, he has a history of injuries, he’s an average defender who only plays well against scrubs and has shown no signs of being a true franchise player.
i think skill level is the wrong choice of words for bosh.bosh’s game is quite limited.hes robotic,lacks the handles or a pure scorers touch.his development and recognition dwarfs bargs but his skill set is nowhere near andreas.he hasnt gained any weight and is skinny for a typical pf and he thinks hes a sg/sf….the question is,has bosh topped out?…he sure as hell hasnt shown us anything new in years.
Andiamo, just to add to your analysis of Bosh:
What really concerns me about Bosh is his passing and decision making. During the New Jersey series the Nets did a fantastic job of crowding CB4 and doubling him early. Chris showed a poor ability to recognize the double team and committed many turnovers. I feel he has only marginally (at best) improved this facet of his game. IMO this is the true sign of a superstar for two reasons. One, superstars are completely comfortable passing out of double teams because they see them so often. Second, and more important, the true sign of a superstar is that he makes his teammates better. He creates opportunities for them. This is the area in which he IS comparable to Wade, Kobe and LeBron. Those guys recognize the double teams, read the D and make the correct pass. (I must admit that guys like Gasol are just brilliant at making the right cuts and getting to the right spots so receive those passes)
we saw a lot of that last season – much better decisions. I honestly believe that Bosh’s ability to do this is related to the pointguards – when he gets the ball, where he gets it, and an overall team efficiency and unwillingness to turn the ball over results from good point play. see my comment below, #33 for more. I think his efficiency goes up when our point plays better.
Do you think Amare has that kind of decision making? Or does Nash make that team and him behave in a much more efficient manner? I think it is Nash.
I would encourage people to read TJose Caldeford’s blog. It may open some eyes or give a different as to what are some of the major issues facing the Raptors.
bargs is 23…bosh is almost 25…not a huge gap…but still…
im still big on bosh (if he doesnt plan on bolting) and know he still has so much room to grow (so long as he doesnt just get lazy and shoot even more midrange jumpers)…and im also big on bargs…for toronto to get rid of either one of them would be a huge mistake when theyre both still young and are obviously developing something together while continuing to take their game to new levels…
if bosh sticks around i cant help but salivate over what those two could potentially do together in two years.
sure theyre not perfect (*insert cliche line*) but theyre smart enough to know what they need to work on to improve and they both seem to have the drive…
its all about their supporting cast…and right now they are in dire need of one.
So, when sportscasters in other cities say stupid things like Moon is great or whatever, is this because they listen to our sportscasters or read our press? And does that also apply then to them thinking Bosh is all that when we are realizing he isn’t?
Great article on the difference between this year and last, posted on the web articles section of RR: http://caldeford.blogspot.com/2009/01/whats-different.html
Coming out of that, I have to hope that the Raps can get increased production from the point next season. This area made everyone else on the team better. LeBron makes his teammates better because of how he controls the ball – well, our pointguards do that for our team, and they need to be better than they are. Calderon, as I have said before, has been the biggest disappointment with his unwillingness to drive. I suspected it was for fear of reaggravating an injury – i think i was right, and he is now injured.
But, as long as we are in future mode, this is what I think is realistic for this team come 2010. This is my hope, given what we have and what we can get in the future:
Calderon/Nash (who we pick up in free agency)/Roko
Parker/Delfino
Marion/Moon/Graham
Bosh/Hump
Bargnani/Voskhul
Furthermore, do you think that this lineup is a recipe for success? I am thinking that Nash will agree to limited minutes because of age…maybe split the game 50/50 with Calderon. Maybe it is just a wonderful pipedream, but I think it could happen…if Marion takes a paycut of course. Kapono’s contract will probably be a little hefty to keep…
What do you guys think? Is this a realistic goal that this team can work towards? Am I just deluding myself?
I would let Marion’s contract expire and try to get Ariza instead of him. Ariza is much younger, has the same athleticism and won’t be such an influence on the team. If he can learn to make the open j, he would be a great player.
Also, with the money I save I would try to get a decent sg. I would draft a sf/sg with this pick and try to sign a mikeal pietrus type player (theres a whole ton to choose from at Golden State). My team would be:
pg: calderon / ukic / nash (if he wants to come)
sg: morrow / parker / kapono (i would desperately try to peddle him)
sf: ariza / draft pick / graham
pf: bosh / hump
c: bargnani
Solid team, no? Good mix of offense, defense, athleticism, and youth. Best thing is it actually seems feasible.
This is a serious question on which I am at a loss, as it would seem many people even outside Toronto think Bosh is all that (even MVP caliber).
Would you want to trade Bosh for Amare? Because people think Amare is an all-star, but there are grumblings about his performance too. Do you think he has amazing decision-making skills? Or do you think that the plays run by Phoenix (mostly thinking of the D’Antoni Suns) are just better than ours, AND Nash makes everyone more efficient and marshalls the floor very well? I think Bosh played much better last season because of TJ and Calderon.
Bosh is not the type of player you can rely on without giving him help. But of course other teams want him. He is a truly awesome player. He is one of the elite PFs in the game, and barring yesterday, a terrific team player – Amare has caused way more shit for his team than Bosh ever did. Just wait until Bosh leaves, if he leaves…I can’t wait to hear everyone bitch and moan about how good he is, while playing for another team alongside Wade/LeBron/another great player. He is a great complimentary player…Malone needed Stockton…who can fill in the role to help out CB4? BC, I am looking at you.
I see, so you are suggesting not to be so hard on him under these trying circumstances. And therefore, support for Bosh is not necessarily misplaced then.
nadir, listen to my podcast with the celtics blog guy. He thought Moon might be a good fit for the Celtics after watching him last two games.
Fact is that most outsiders don’t have time to watch other teams and will give you their opinion based on what little they’ve seen and just checking stats. That’s why the opinions of scouts carries so much weight. Or even hardcore fans who watch a lot of NBA.
You 12 year old Bosh haters, with your foul language, are crazy with your comments. Who are you trying to impress?
Chris Bosh is an All-Star, a very,very good player ( one of the top 10 in the NBA, #6 scoring #9 rebounds, this year, and top 5 F/C , who can average more than 20 points and 10 rebounds a game, and there are few (3 only, Howard, Duncan, & Jefferson this year) in the NBA with that combined talent.
At 24 he is a special talent, still growing into his game, and role as a leader. Raptor’s are very fortunate to have him, and I hope keep him.
What he is not, is a player who can dribble drive, break his man down, to the basket, and make the big game winning shot. Thats the job of a SG/SF/PG with those kind of skills, but he gets stuck with the job because he is the Rap’s best player, and due to the lack of that talent on the Rap’s.
To his credit he is trying to do the job and lead, but he needs help from a talented SG/SF to complement his and Andreas skills, as well as Calderon’s return to direct the offense.
Raptors will continue to struggle with their end of game, quarter, half offense untill BC can provide better diversification of talent around Bosh, Bargnani, and Calderon.
Have to agree, nobody can do it alone. Is he a clutch player? He hasn’t shown it yet but give him some help and you’ll see results. It’s not often a guy of his talents comes falls to a team. I’m as critical of him as anyone but the fact is that he just doesn’t have the help that’s needed.
Somebody on the site yesterday made a pick-up game analogy where even if a good player has to play with scrubs they’ll get run off the court.
We saw it last night. Lakers vs. LeBron.
The Cavs without Big Z and Delonte didn’t have enough shooters to compete, so the Lakers funneled LeBron to the outside of the court and he was left hoisting bad jumpers all night and watching every pass he made turn into a defensive rebound for the Lakers.
nadir,
Plenty of others here might not like what the answer is to the last question you asked, which is really too bad for them.
———–
Those who de-value the ability of Chris Bosh & Jamario Moon, etc., simply do not have a sound understanding of how the NBA game works, in comparison with certain others who follow this league.
Exhibit A – a good percentage of Raptors fans did not see how it could possibly be the case that Anthony Parker could hold on his own [succeed?] as a Back-up PG for this year’s team … before they were shown in living technicolour.
That, right there, is what’s referred to as lacking a sophisticated level of Basketball Acumen, any way you want to slice it.
Someday you will either have to write the world’s greatest basketball encyclopedia, lead an NBA team to a championship, or quit talking down to the rest of the readers.
can we wait until the raps, y’know, win a game w/ AP at the point before we declare him an NBA-quality point? since that, from what i’ve heard, is the whole point & all…
… and what’s even worse is the fact that many of those same fans are totally unaware of their actual deficiency in this regard.
But at least you are.
You badass…
I don’t understand where all this hate for bosh is coming from. Take a look at the top power forwards (big men) of this generation. Most of them have or have had a great sidekick or supporting cast when they were in their prime.
Amare and Nash, Shaq and Wade/Kobe, Garnett and early 2000s timberwolves, Duncan and rest of the spurs, Howard and magic, Dirk and Nash (now Kidd), Boozer and Deron. The list can keep going. And if you look at that list, these bigs weren’t really relied upon to make the clutch decisions. How many times has Hedo won the game for the magic compared to Howard. Nash compared to Amare. Manu compared to Duncan. The way the game is played now, like some posters here have said you need a clutch pg, sg or sf with more than exceptional talent.
Sure bosh has made some bone headed errors during crunch time, but do you really want your big to win the game for you by himself? Or would you rather have your wing or guard make a play to maybe not win the game themselves but make the right decision with the ball giving the best opportunity to win. Bosh is one of the premier forwards in the game. Period. How many players average 20 and 10 over an entire season? That’s what he gives you. But when the game is on the line, don’t expect your big to take the ball from the 3 point line and drive to the line for the tough reverse layup to win the game.
You tell those unaware raptors fans whose blog this really is.
Badassss.
Arse, now that u guys merged with truehoop does that mean that he content is gonna be censored or filtered?
Well, the actual articles don’t really contain any swearing to begin with so we don’t have to worry about that.
The comment section definitely could use some cleaning up but at the same time we don’t want to moderate comments because that’s just lame. All we can do is ask that you try to keep it clean and be respectful to others. If there’s a comment that’s just a personal insult and no basketball, we just quietly delete it since it doesn’t take anything away from the discussion.
Some of us are emotional people and need to vent so sometimes its unavoidable and we understand that. It’s the personal attacks that bug me more and I understand that sometimes its brought on by the person themselves.
Just try to keep it clean, that’s all we ask. We work hard on this site and put countless hours into it and sometimes the language taints the work and drives people away. Personally, I’ve been guilty of swearing too and am trying to get better.
Yup,we are now being filtered.thanks
Wondering about moving Bosh isn’t necessarily hate. The guy’s damned good but is he a centrepiece? I honestly don’t know. I also wonder whether he and Bargnani are a great fit. They’ve been working reasonably well together but neither is exactly a defensive powerhouse so I wonder if one of them should be converted into a quality SF. But Bargs might well be enough to trade for that elusive quality SF. We’re all in love with his potential right now because potential always seems like it will somehow be greater than what exists right now. Maybe I’m making that mistake with Bosh. But I do question his mental toughness.
Of course, if the Raptors trade him to a team like Miami where he’s the #2, he will be part of a very impressive team. The problem the Raptors have is they don’t have the resources to get a player to put above Bosh in the offensive pecking order. Building the ‘04 Pistons is a lot harder than building the Jordan-era Bulls, especially when you’ve got to compete with teams like the Cavs.
Adam,you wouldn’t be talking smack about our friend who has his own site would you?
Being the intense Raptor fan I am, I’ve been trying to figure out why I’m okay with all these losses. Certainly disappointed at the end of a close game — that we’ve lost — but never having that feeling last too long.
I could say that I’ve been a Bargnani fan since I first saw him, and am simply enjoying knowing one was right. Unfortunately, arrogance never made a Leaf fan happy. Nor a Rap one. Works for a few games – I guess – but loses its’ appeal if the main goal remains elusive.
What AB does represent – numbers aside – is a counter to everything I’ve hated about the Leafs, and their affinity to panic. Call BC an idiot for HaHaSamming us, or leaving this year below our expectations, but what he’s done encourages me. Chalk it up to pride, call it an unwillingness to admit an error … Colangelo has simply managed to avoid the panic button, and a trade we might`ve all wanted to forget.
I can only imagine Bargs getting us a JO-type player in return (with a more reasonable salary of course). Good numbers for a year or two, but limited when it comes to going further. BC may never have done such a move, but all the others before him seemed to. Especially with the Leafs – even those without the Ballard shadow.
As a hockey fan and relatively new BBall fan, it’s encouraging to see our draft picks become the core of this team. AB, Jose, and CB certainly represent a direction I’d like to go in. And critique Bosh all you want, but there`d be dozens of GM`s in 2010 who`ll line for his services. Add the right pieces to this team, and he’ll be a potent force.
I completely agree with you. I have been guilty of pushing the panic button and offering trades which are short term fixes at best. If we manage to resign our core, there is a potential 10 year window with these guys, and the best part is that they are still learning and could get better.
Arse,
Just want to congratule you and the guys on the truehoop thing and let you know what a fantastic site is.
While I’d prefer not to personally insult people and stay on the topic of the raptors (and at this point all of the cleaning up the team needs), it’s really hard to stay on topic when people are being über condescending because they KNOW they have the answers.
It just gets annoying and hard to stay focused because most are left to feel wildly out of place due to the fact that we aren’t as hip to rodney carney as others are.
Sure, I haven’t been on this site as long as most, nor have a prolly been a raptors fan as long as most. But I care about the team as much as anybody. I enjoy the fact that I get to comment and connect with people who feel the same way.
And maybe I could stand the berating from the people who run this blog (although I generally find myself on point with all of you). I don’t know how many of us regular readers can take it from some dude that has his own blog (that nobody cares about) and therefore should keep his page long rants about rodney carney and his “look at me, I told you so” bravado on his own site.
Jesus I feel like I’m telling to the teacher.
Once again. Love YOUR blog,
-bearvon
I don’t think very many consider the Suns as solid work, since they never really made much noise when it mattered. When they do better this year, it should also prove this point.
So who do you want to be GM of the Raptors?
nadir,
re: comment #98
Yes, that’s correct.
RapthoseLeafs,
———————–
re: Chalk it up to pride, call it an unwillingness to admit an error … Colangelo has simply managed to avoid the panic button, and a trade we might`ve all wanted to forget
———————–
IMO, the Charlie V trade was a type of panic move … as was the trade of TJ Ford for Jermaine O’Neal.
hahaha been away from RR for couple of days and what’s this? khandor hate? So, I’m not alone on this..
Shame on you man and your delusional self-worth propaganda, u got the whole community against you.
btw I also think this is the best raptors blog out there for its extensive info on the team, quick updates and all the other surrounding stuff. Keep it up boys.
Suggestion, what about a message board kinda like raptorsforum where you can discuss the articles in a different form?
Finally, about the Hawks game, i still think roko should get a pass from Triano on some rookie mistaks and be there for final minutes of games.
I feel like Triano has been very encouraging to Roko so far, which I like. You can’t learn if you get the hook after a bad game or a few bad plays. Look how Joey has grown under a coach who lets him make mistakes instead of benching him. These guys need reps more than anything.
This season is out the window anyway, I think we might as well develop these young guys, whether for our own use or to showcase them.
Just had an interview with Michael Grange from the Globe and Mail, do give your thoughts in the other thread:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/01/20/chatting-raptors-ball-with-michael-grange/
The reason the Raptors haven’t won these recent games with AP manning the Point position is not related to the way he’s performed his duties at that spot.
During these 2 games, the 5-Man Unit of
Parker + Moon + Graham + Bargnani + Bosh
has more than held its own.
The problems have been rooted elsewhere.
MoneyCarlo,
—————————–
re: Shame on you man and your delusional self-worth propaganda, u got the whole community against you.
—————————–
Are you familiar with sports wagering at all?
If you are …
When the entire sports world is betting its hard-earned money on one “side” in a specific contest, concerning a specific proposition, what does it usually mean? [e.g. Carolina -10 Arizona]
a. That loud side is going to be proven right.
b. That loud side is going to be proven wrong.
Have a terrific day!
What does that even mean?
It means you fade the public. What he’s saying then, I think, is that the public perception of what the Raptors’ problems/needs/deficencies are is often skewed because they don’t know any better.
Incomplete.
You forgot:
C. I’m a self righteous douchebag
I’m gonna go with c.
Anyone?
i get where you’re going with that… but i think you should probably rethink that option.
Bearvon,
Unfortunately, c. cannot be an option, in this case … because it isn’t you who is asking the question.
If it was you, then, of course, c. would have tremendous validity.
[ ... concerning YOU rather than me. : ) ]
pakmacman,
Absolutely, too funny. : )
Do you think he gets what you meant?
No no. I get it.
Clearly you don’t get it.
It seems like most people aren’t down for your “knowledge”.
If we were we would put more effort into reading YOUR blog.
Sorry to let you down my man.
Oh and I’m rooting for you.
Hoping to one day wise up, ditch this site, and become a firm believer of the “khandorsportsblog*tm”.
Till then I’m gonna stick to this one. I like it much better. Here’s hoping you can one day write for them…
Dream big Lil guy!!!
Have a terrific day : )
Khandor, if we move Parker to the point who plays the 2 for us? Parker is the only real 2 on the team. The opposing SGs dropped 60 on us over 2 games with Joey at the 2.
Fill in the blanks…
“_________ is the biggest jackass in the basketball blogosphere”.
Bearvon,
——————————–
re:
No no. I get it.
Clearly you don’t get it.
It seems like most people aren’t down for your “knowledge”.
If we were we would put more effort into reading YOUR blog.
Sorry to let you down my man.
Oh and I’m rooting for you.
Hoping to one day wise up, ditch this site, and become a firm believer of the “khandorsportsblog*tm”.
Till then I’m gonna stick to this one. I like it much better. Here’s hoping you can one day write for them…
Dream big Lil guy!!!
Have a terrific day : )
——————————–
Not to worry … you could never ever let me down.
Although it does seem that you might not yet understand exactly the relationship I have with the good people who run this fine blog. : )
Hopefully … you will stick to this one, as it’s by far the best Raptors’ blog there is, at least, IMO.
FACT IS … in no way, shape, or form would I ever want you migrating over to the blog which I operate myself.
IMO, this is the best place for you, as a die-hard Raptors’ fan, without question.
—————-
And, you can trust that I will surely have a terrific day! : )
… and, Raptoronto, that goes for you, too. : )
Adam,
Once Calderon returns to good health, using Parker as the Back-up PG need not mean that he only gets a few minutes at the OG position for this team.
AP is still clearly one of the best and most important Raptors. The resulting changes could be as follows:
[for example]
OPTION 1 – 7-Man Rotation [ala Phoenix under Mike D'Antoni, i.e. Nash, Bell, Hill, Marion, Stat||Barbosa, Diaw]
STARTERS: Calderon/PG + Moon/Wing + Graham/Wing + Bargnani/Big + Bosh/Big
KEY BENCH SUBS: Parker/PG & Wing, Humphries/Big
RESERVES: Ukic/PG, Kapono/Wing, Voskuhl/Big
OPTION 2 – 8-Man Rotation [ala Detroit under Chuck Daley, i.e. Zeke, Dumars, Rodman, Salley, Laimbeer||Johnson, Aguirre, Edwards]
STARTERS: Calderon/PG + Moon/Wing + Graham/Wing + Bargnani/Big + Bosh/Big
KEY BENCH SUBS: Parker/PG & Wing, Kapono/Wing, Humphries/Big
RESERVES: Ukic/PG, Voskuhl/Big
… which would still see Parker getting major minutes for this team as the OG.
The more extended minutes these principal 7 or 8 players would be used together the better their collective defense would become and the 60 points which the Raptors surrendered to the opposing #2’s these past two games would gradually be improved upon/reduced on a consistent basis.
These two lineup options assume that JO isn’t back at the same time as Calderon.
I would be very concerned about having Moon start for this team consistently. As we’ve seen time and again, he’s just not in the headspace to offer consistent play from our starting SG. That’s the biggest hole on this team. The same argument can be made for Graham.
Fact is even with these two lineup options our talent level is woefully under the league average.
And Khandor, as you know (and have said before), you’re better off creating a lineup that matches up best with the opposition in the context of that game and the opposition’s lineup at that moment.
Khandor
You dont understand the relationship,I have with the people who run this fine blog…..I thought it was yours !!!!
You guys are all morons. You have no idea how many teams and fans out there covet Bosh and a top GM in Colangelo. We are so lucky to have them here and you people want to push them out. Pathetic.
I actually agree with Angryrap.. not with the ‘morons’ bit, but with the message he/she not so eloquently delivered =)
To me, most Raptors fans are too rabid to be objective.. and not many truly understand the salary cap system in the NBA. some crazy things I’ve heard:
- trade Bosh, build around Bargnani
- trade Calderon, he sucks
- fire Colangelo, he doesn’t know what he’s doing
- if Bosh can’t carry this team to the NBA Finals, he sucks
- trade other team’s all-star for our scrubs
wtf.
Birdman,
IMO, those are fair criticisms of this overall roster, which Colangelo has mistakenly constructed, to be sure. Does not negate the fact, however, that Moon & Graham are the BEST available options for this team, as the Starting Wings, given the absence of a credible back-up PG and the ability Parker has to fulfil this crucial role.
i.e. [1] Calderon + Moon & Graham … supported by Parker
is a superior Guard Rotation to
[2] Calderon + Parker + Moon/Graham/Kapono …supported by Ukic.
Although it migh look like another viable option:
[3] Calderon + Kapono + Moon/Graham
so, too, is this combination inadequate in comparison with #1 above, as Kapono is simply too poor of a Rebounder & Defender to partner with Calderon on a consistent basis.
Once the game got deep into the 2nd half, and Parker got his minutes at the back-up PG-spot out of the way [with Jose getting the appropriate amount of rest], it would only be prudent to then match-up with the opponent’s Guard-Forward combination with whatever mix of
Calderon + any two of Parker or Moon or Graham
that would be a best fit coming down the stretch of a close game.
moon is the reason they loose every game the other team does not even guard moon they leave him in the open and let him shoot and he really really needs to stop smiling. Moon should sit on the end of the bench and face the the other way and not be aloud to watch. …..I cant stand him he is not a basketball player he is a dum athlete that is it ..not a basketball player.
Wicked stuff, so I thought this team would be at .500% by the All-Star break, I guess I was completely off! Let’s lose all the games and get another Top 5 pick!!!! How many is that now?
pugalug,
I agree completely with you, re: each of these 5 points.