The PNR defense cannot result in matchups like these!Terrible finish to this one as Chris Bosh gets blocked by Joakim Noah on a fadeaway jumper with the Raptors down two. Hindsight is 20/20 but even at the time it made too much sense to go through Bargnani who was having his best offensive game, like, ever. The Raptors chose to run a play for their “franchise player” who probably should’ve executed his blow-by the second he caught the ball, he didn’t and Noah sealed off his drive and out came the fadeaway jumper which was stuffed back in his face. Would’ve liked to see him keep his dribble alive after the initial seal-off and force Noah to move laterally to his left and defend a paint drive instead. Later we found out that he thought the exact same thing, but that kind of in-game decision-making requires a natural basketball sense and we’ve gotten too used to Bosh not displaying that. It’s no surprise that Bosh took the fadeaway and its no surprise that he missed. For all of Bargnani’s great play tonight, that was the play that will be remembered from this game.
Derrick Rose is a special player who has it. He’s got the skill to compliment his competitiveness and having the ball at the start of the possession certainly helps your scoring and clutch-play, and when you can pass the ball you become a very big threat. While we have nobody like Rose, we have Bargnani who had shown all game that he’s capable of reading the defense and making good offensive decisions and not forcing shots (31 pts, 10-14 FG) . Giving the ball to Bosh on an isolation is basically giving up your play to the defense because he can’t make reads or instant decisions about what to do. If nothing obviously materializes in the first couple seconds after him catching the ball, you’re looking at significant time wasted or a low percentage shot. The Raptors lead the NBA in the “Bad shot, bad shot…….goooooood shot” category and it’s a feeling every fan feels when Bosh, Solomon and Moon launch those jumpers. They might be tolerable in the first three quarters and might even fall in the fourth to make it appear like a good idea, but in the long run its a losing proposition.
After the Boston game many thought that this team had turned the corner, they had lost but had shown that if they play the game the right way they could hang with a great team. Naturally you expected (silly you) that they’d take the lessons learned from that game and apply them here. The crisp defense and gritty offense that we saw in Boston was replaced by a laziness that is unexplainable. They say they’re a team that’s trying to get back on track and work through their struggles but their effort and focus says otherwise. Take the first quarter as an example, the Bulls came out with the same energy the Raptors had come out with in Boston. They were getting dribble penetration (what a shock?) and then swinging the ball around the horn and inside beautifully (and I cant emphasize that enough, it was awesome to watch). The cuts were perfect, they were sudden, quick, brushing against screens and most importantly, hard. Our defensive energy wasn’t there which meant we weren’t able to stick with the Bulls as they were running circles around the court and worst of all, we weren’t boxing out the eager Bulls. Noah had 8 early points, all setup by dribble penetration.
The Bulls out-rebounded us 15-8 in the first quarter (41-31 for the game) and led 27-18. It was a real big letdown because the energy from the Boston game wasn’t there and the Bulls were looking as sharp as any team can look. Here’s a stat that perfectly describes their efficiency: 9 of their 10 field goals came off assists. I was watching Bosh on the glass and he looked bad, he had no idea where his man was as the shot went up which means boxing out was impossible. Jumping towards the ball as its bouncing off the rim is no way to rebound and the Bulls’ big men were easily going around him for the rebound, of course it also helped that they were trying about 200% harder. Jack Armstrong made an excuse for Bosh’s defensive rebounding after the Bulls got four offensive rebounds on one possession with Bosh hovering around. He said that he can’t be aggressive since he already has two fouls. To me that doesn’t make any sense, it’s not like he’s crashing the offensive glass and could get called for the over-the-back, these are defensive rebounds we’re talking about here! A team looks at their leader as an example and early on Bosh was providing a very bad one.
The latter part of the second quarter is when the Raptors started chipping away at the lead. Bosh got his jumper working and mixed it up with some nice drives against Noah who was there to be had. Bosh and Bargnani had 11 and 10 second quarter points, respectively. Andrea’s offensive game is looking smoother than ever and he was making fantastic decisions with the ball. He was demanding the rock against Tyrus Thomas and Aaron Gray, sizing them up and driving/shooting accordingly. The Bulls wanted to test his jumper and were slow in fighting through screens which freed Bargnani at the high elbow. Bargnani made them pay by knocking the jumper down but never forgot to keep the defense honest by driving the ball. When he has his jumper working, it all starts to come together and last night he started 5-7. The Bulls’ aggressiveness worked against them in the quarter as they picked up a few loose ball fouls which led to the Raptors shooting 9 free throws.
A ton of credit goes to Roko Ukic for running the team in the second quarter. One of his strengths is that he keeps the dribble alive and is always moving which means that the defense is always working. Even when the initial screen or play fails to produce anything, the return-to-PG pass to reset the dribble isn’t needed and the possession can continue. He only had two assists in that second quarter but quarterbacked the team nicely by giving the ball to the right people in the right positions. As for Bosh the second quarter was about as aggressive he got all night, here’s an interesting tidbit. He drew 6 fouls up until the 4:46 mark of the second quarter. He didn’t draw his seventh foul till the 2:39 mark of the fourth.
Halftime felt good, we had a one point lead thanks to Bosh and Bargnani who had managed to counter the Bulls’ great team play by taking over the scoring load thus giving the second half some promise. Derrick Rose had 8 points and 5 assists and wasn’t killing us, Luol Deng who wasn’t even expected to play in this game had 8 points but his movement without the ball and drive and kicks against Bargnani and Moon hurt us. Bargnani was able to matchup with him if he caught the ball in the post or tried to make a move in tight space but on a perimeter isolation, Deng had him beat every time. Not really surprising, that’s not where Bargnani’s defensive strengths lie. We had dug ourselves out of the early hole created by the lack of effort and intensity, second half was a toss-up at this point.
The third quarter started nicely enough with Bosh and Bargnani continuing their hot shooting. They scored the Raptors first 14 points as we built up a 62-55 lead midway through. That’s when we had some defensive lapses and Ben Gordon went on a quick 5-0 run as we failed to get back in transition. An ominous pattern was developing, we weren’t getting back on defense and weren’t in great positions to defend the pick ‘n roll. The Gordon run silenced the ACC crowd and swung the momentum back to the Bulls. Bosh rested the final 3:16 of the third so he could be ready for the fourth, in that span Bargnani held the fort down and the Raptors went -1 and took a three point lead into the clutch quarter.
Boston started the fourth quarter on a 6-0 run, the Bulls started 9-0. The momentum was gone and the slim three point lead was replaced by a six point deficit. This is a crucial stretch which needs to be examined closely. Chris Bosh missed two jumpers, Derrick Rose posted up Ukic for a three-point play, they ran a pick ‘n roll to get Sefolosha a clean look and Rose setup Nocioni after dribble penetration. The Bulls were aggressive in this stretch, the Raptors were not. The inability to defend the pick and roll was the theme of the quarter as the Bulls ran it to create mismatches like Rose v Bosh/Bargnani which the rookie exploited to full potential by stepping back for jumpers or taking it right to the rim. Solomon and Ukic had been playing him tight in the first three quarters but then again he wasn’t looking to exploit them since everything else was working for them. When crunch time came calling he took over with 17 fourth quarter points, I thought Triano pulling Roko for Solomon was a bad move, Solomon seemed gassed and could not cope with the picks that were causing the mayhem. After Solomon tried to get his on a drive only to miss it, he failed to get back on defense and Rose drove straight down the paint for two over four Raptors. Triano had seen enough and finally got Ukic back in but by that time Rose had already scored 13 of his 17 points. We had no answer Rose’s speed, determination to attack and exploit, and just watched him do this thing leading the Bulls to 72% shooting in the quarter. His attack mentality and our perimeter mentality had everything to do with the 44-26 PINP drubbing which has become the norm. Triano sounded helpless after the game:
We tried switching it with guys who could guard the screen and role, such as Jamario Moon. We tried trapping it early, we tried making him go one way. But they have guys who can shoot the three and that made it hard to keep him in front of us. Rose was sharing the ball and making the plays, too. They had 12 offensive rebounds at halftime. It deflates you when you play good defence, force them to miss shots and they get the ball again. We tried to pound it inside and score, but didn’t get the buckets when we needed them.
I thought the Raptors should’ve trapped him in the fourth and gotten the ball out of his hands. He’d already shown that he could kill us with the live dribble and our defense on Deng had been better in the second half, why not take our chances with the hand that isn’t red hot? I don’t know if its a feasible strategy, a trap means that you have to recover and I’m not sure how well we can do that either. I know the Spurs did it against Kobe and Trevor Ariza ended up taking the final shot. Just a thought. That’s one of the reasons I would actually consider the O’Neal for Marion swap, Marion is the perimeter defender that we’ve been lacking all along and will be a difference-maker in clutch defensive possessions. However, I’m not sure it really matters anymore. Oh yeah, his contract also ends at the end of the year.
We needed to keep pace with the Bulls on offense and Bargnani certainly did his job by netting 8 and 2-3 shooting. Bosh on the other hand had 4 points on 1-6 shooting. The Raptors for whatever reason simply went away from Bargnani. The Bulls were not doubling, fronting or denying him the ball, we just chose to go in another direction. For the hottest player of the night to take only three shots in the fourth is inexcusable. Parker came up huge with some key baskets to keep pace but in the end it came down to a few key possessions where we failed to execute. Moon’s ill-advised three presented to him by the Bulls defense at 1:40 with the Raptors down 4, Bargnani’s travel with the same score, Will not getting back on defense and of course Bosh not coming through twice on isolation sets late in the fourth. That’s the NBA for you, the role players and everybody else can keep you in the game but when there’s under two minutes left, something special is needed and Bosh doesn’t have it. Bargnani mght have had it on this night but never got the chance to show it.
One-Liners:
- Jason Kapono played 10+ minutes in the fourth quarter and produced three points while being a heavy liability on defense against Nocioni, Deng and Gordon. He’s just awful, he has a good game once in a while that gets your hopes all high but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s just plain awful. Here’s a stat I dug up: Of the 180 players ranked by ESPN in their PER48 stats, Kapono, Parker and Moon are ranked 142, 157 and 162, respectively. That is pathetic.
- Kris Humphries is making Triano’s decision to have Voskuhl as the first big man off the bench seem like a good one. I don’t know if the lengthy spell on the bench has disrupted his flow but he’s making dumb plays out there and isn’t hitting the glass which is the main reason anyone tolerates him.
- Joey Graham with a game low -11. Contrary to popular belief, he’s not a guy you can throw out there and just ask to play. We need to run more plays for him going towards the basket and channel his aggressiveness in a positive manner. If he’s out there without a clue of what to do he reverts to Bad Joey very easily.
- Best Lineup: Ukic, Parker, Bargnani, Bosh, Moon. +7 in that second quarter stretch. Worst Lineup: Graham, Solomon, Parker, Bargnani, Bosh. -7 in that dreadful first quarter.
- The Bulls had 33 assists to our 20, a great indication of how most of our play was one-on-one which is in sharp contrast to theirs.
- The best play we ran all night was late in the fourth when Parker found a Bosh after he cut across the lane on a curl for a dunk.
- Thabo Sefolosha sounds like a STD.
- If it looks like choking, smells like choking, tastes like choking, it’s probably choking.
- Stat of the Game: Bulls shot 72% in the fourth quarter.
Raps lose to Bulls and fall 8 games below .500 and are the 4th worst team in the East ahead of Washington, Charlotte and Indiana. We’re 40 games into the season and need to go 30-12 just to reach 46 wins which is what the 6th seed is projected to have. We need luck. Check Roll Call, follow the Twitter and grab the feed.
120 Raps
An 8-game losing streak right now would pretty much put a cap on the current season:
Date Opponent Result/W-L Score W-L
Jan 11 vs Boston L/16-22 88-94
Jan 12 at Boston L/16-23 109-115
Jan 14 vs Chicago L/16-24 98-102
Jan 16 at Indiana ?
Jan 18 vs Phoenix ?
Jan 19 at Atlanta ?
Jan 21 at Detroit ?
Jan 23 at Chicago ?
As I said earlier this summer … there are going to be a number of Middle-of-the-Pack teams in the EC this year, including:
ATLANTA [Johnson, Smith, Horford, Williams & Law]
NEW JERSEY [Harris, Lopez & Carter]
PHILADELPHIA [Young, Iguodala, Williams & Speights]
MIAMI [Wade, Beasley & Chalmers]
MILWAUKEE [Jefferson, Bogut, Villanueva, Sessions & Mbah A Moute]
CHICAGO [Deng, Thomas, Noah & Rose]
NEW YORK [Lee, Chandler & Gallinari]
TORONTO [Bosh, Calderon & Bargnani]
INDIANA [Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Hibbert, Jack, Rush & Ford]
CHARLOTTE [Augustin, Diaw, Wallace and Okafor]
WASHINGTON [Jamison & Butler, if Arenas & Haywood were both healthy]
Which ones improve substantially during the next few years will depend upon the way in which these teams are managed from the top down, going forward from here.
I think we need to tank this season, personally.
Choke City, baby!! MVP? over-rated *clap clap clap* over rated *clap clap clap*
I’ve said it Monday night in the chat.. they’ll be lucky to win 2 games the rest of the season.
Can we start saying that huge games by Bargs equal losses?
stfu loser.maybe if the play last night was for bargs instead of bitch ass butterfingers bosh we may have won…either way,this is tough times for raptor fans and nobody who is a real fan cares about individual performances and you come in here time and time again advertising some sort of wack “i told you so” gayness.please fuck off u dumb jakoff.
You’re a sweet gay Andiamo.
care for a teabag?
The GM has done such a great job he should be fired. Hates the draft and never gets a first round pick. Presently has roughly a third of his salary sitting out hurt. But wait the stands were full last night and I’m sure the insurance money is starting to come in. And the only recent rooster move was made to stay under the luxury tax so they are in line for something like 3.2 million in tax money at the end of the year. Good for the owners but loosy for the fans.
If a NBA team needs a win then play Toronto. The whole organization needs to man up and tank like Miami did last year. No matter how bad a draft year any pick would at least bring energy and fresh blood to the team. Anyone want to bet they will trade the pick for some 30 year washed up player who wants 20+ mill a year . Oh wait a minute, that was last year. Maybe they can trade for the players the Knicks don’t want. Say Bosh + a first round draft pick for Marbury. Think of all the expiring contracts they would have and Bosh would be in a bigger market.
I think to be fair to Bargnani, who some of you are going to call VL for the next 11 games after putting up 30/10 tonight, we should start calling Chris Bosh “Tofu Burger” until he strings together 20 “franchise player” games. TB.
I Love Andrea Bargnani!! He’s looking better than Cb right now. we really need some help!
Arsenalist,
Great recap. I don’t know why I even bother checking out raptorshq for the recap anymore. They never post a recap early in the morning and when they finally get around to doing so, it is often a weak recap lacking detail unless Franchise is the author. Totally agree on the Bosh critique. Bargs might have an ounce of clutch in him, but we won’t really know unless we entrust him with more clutch possessions. I don’t know about you, but I have never seen Bosh come through with the final possession of the game. NEVER. I know that I haven’t seen every game he has ever played, but whenever the ball goes to Bosh for the clutch play, I always scratch my head. At this point, it would be more effective to use him as a decoy late in the 4th q.
It’s become fact taht Bosh is as effective in the clutch as KG was with the TWolves. Bosh is not clutch in the crunch, he is extremely effective and consistent for 46-47 minutes.
And I have to agree about Arsenalist’s great recap today. I didn’t see the game, but his analysis 100% point. His ability to accurately analys and effectively communicate games is always as strong/stronger than those provided by top newspaper beat grunts.
Bad game. The total lack of effort to start the game is inexcusable and speaks volumes about the mental and emotional makeup of this team. On the postive side, another great game for Bargnani (and 10 boards!!!!). Ukic needs to start from now on. Yes he’s a rookie and makes mistakes but the offence works much better when he’s running it and he’s quick enough to defend on the perimeter. Let’s face it, Solomon has no future with the Raptors. We need to give Ukic more playing time so he can develop. The season’s done anyway. Let’s stop pretending it isn’t and act accordingly.
The Raps really need to start thinking next season, this one is pretty much done. BC made the mistake of trying to rebuild too quickly and they are stuck in mediocrity. At least I can finally wear my AB jersey with pride.
Dang, that was early this morning! Umm, should have said 2 games rest of the month and 30 for the season.
I’m looking forward to more suggestions regarding lineup changes and the trade Bosh talk to commence. Fire away.
Andiamo… what’s up buddy? So what happened last night? They lost the pair they grew vs. Boston? At least I don’t go back and forth from game to game, like yourself. Oh we are making the playoffs one day to oh these gutless bitches the next. But I guess that’s what true fans do, right?
aaand I quote: “fuck bosh.fuck joey.fuck krapono,fuck hump,fuck ap.fuck moon….and fuck triano.”
HORNS UP, BABY!! ISO BARGS, every play. Funny how all these monster games by your boy are resulting in losses… kinda like JO.
Fluxland do you know what you’re saying? How can you blame any of these losses on bargnani’s starts. He’s finally getting minutes and playing like most of us knew he could. And while Bosh and everyone else make bonehead plays often, and Bosh is not a go to guy in the clutch, he works his tail off every night and has tone of talent. The Raps are not losing because of Bargs or Bosh, but rather because the supporting role stinks so damn bad. Moon is at best a 10-14 minute bench hustle player, same as Kapono. Solomon is a bum, and Roko is going to be great but has to work on his shot but needs PLAYING TIME to get there which should not be hard on a sub 500 team. Parker is solid for his age but no game changer, but should not take all the blame for why his number is rarely called. This team needs to spread their offence to more than Bosh as I’ve been saying forever. We need a real SF and SG and the wins will come and the team will get way better.
Yes, I know what I am saying. It’s called wins produced.
So Bargs was supposed to win it himself even though he never gets the ball when it matters, and it’s usually a late jack-off shot by Moon or Solomon. You have no idea. He was 10 of 14, with 10 boards. Even Kobe does not win games on his own. Maybe you think it’s tennis!
Do you know what wins produced means?
I know what it means you illiterate, but it doesn’t mean jack shit here is what I’m saying. One guy doesn’t win. He’s had to play with Solomon as the starter
“a great indication of how most of our play was one-on-one” Arse, like I mentioned a few days ago.. it’s just a one on one showcase, most of the time, out there. No team anything. Offense, defense, rebounding.
Triano seems so focused on getting something out of each players and keeping everyone happy, as opposed to some sort of team plan. Am I missing it? Is there a plan out there, night to night, or is everyone just freestylin when they get the ball.
And don’t tell me Hump is not a black hole. C’mon…
Hater = Flux. Have ya ever said one positive things about the Raps? Your 100% negativity 100% of the time kills your credibility.
I have… not. Not this year anyway. What positive is there to talk about? Enlighten me. That after 3 years Bargs (in the last x amount of games) is playing to his potential? What you wanna talk about man? That Roko is not a total waste of time? Great. Yay!
I take it back…you know too little about sports to watch tennis. The fact that you think Bargs should win it alone means you’re used to individual sports for sure…but not real sports; I think you watch about 10 hours a day of wrestling because then your loser guy can pull out a win for you by throwing a chair at the other guy and body slamming the ref!
Sorry, when did I say Bargs should win it alone?
You said his big games mean losses. And you see no talent in Roko so you obviously have never picked up a ball of your own. Also the three years it took Bargnani to blossom are coming by accident due to JO’s injury because Mitchell fucked him around for all two and a half seasons. He also had an appendectomy ( not lobotomy like you), sinus problems and worse ever changing roles and minutes with mostly teamates who refused to get him good looks because they either dump iot to Bosh or shoot. You have no idea what you’re talking about and obviously should be cheering for the Celtic’s and then switch to whoever wins it all this year.By the way most true College players are just finishing at Bargnani’s age, and have played 4 years plus high school and so on of American style low post basketball.
You are dense, that’s all. So, I am supposed to be excited about 2 players showing signs of belonging in the NBA, while the team is eating the East basement. YIIIPPPY. Btw, I posed a question when I said his production equals losses. It’s ok, I understand, some people find reading comprehension more difficult then others, and you must wear a helmet, so you are forgiven.
Also, if you payed any attention to what I write, you would know my stance on Bargs, not just think you are some sort of genius and decide you know everything I think, based on me posing one question.
You are dismissed, back to the sandbox, rugrat.
Ginobili was drafted late in the second round…Parker was drafted late in the first round…they are both the sort of Euro players that the particularly stupid fans here would be disappointed with in the draft because they don’t understand anything that isn’t black and white and after the fact….the Spurs are perennial winners because they have a balanced team with a power forward who has been an All NBA defensive player and solid fundamental core since the day he was drafted.The team made themselves winners by playing smart, playing together and never making feeble fucking excuses like you hear coming out of the Raptor locker room…ever…
There are still people here who think Bosh is a “better” player than Tim Duncan…there is not one “top five” list ever at halftime in an NBA game where coaches and players are asked to choose their favourite players where Bosh is included and Duncan is not….there is a reason for that….
Teams usually need 3 players that are All Star calibre (current, not the O’Neal variety) …and they need depth…
There are a few players once in a while that need less help because they are true Superstars…that is what makes them Super, that is why there is a word like super….LeBron and Dwayne Wade are those kind of guys and yet Bosh has been lumped into that category by the dumbest fanbase in the NBA who apparently rate players based on scoring during the regular season and the happenstance of free agency in the same year.
LeBron James WILL win a championship in his career, no matter who he plays with…Wade already has, so has Duncan…Bosh could easily be the next Tracy McGrady and never make it past he first round..he is going to need to either play with a LeBron/Wade type superstar or he is going to need ready made All Stars imported for him, like Pierce in Boston…he is not a player who will make the players around him better… he is not versatile, cannot run the offense, cannot play lock down defense, cannot finish in clutch plays in big games…he has not shown a second gear or a toughness in the playoffs…he has not won…or come close to winning.
How anybody couldn’t start to get a sense of that in the New Jersey series is beyond me…the cretins here of course forget that Bargnani actually showed much more intestinal fortitude than Bosh in that series, but of course absolutely nothing was run for him and he was forgotten whenever he started to get hot…not much has changed….
For 4 years, the offense of the Raptors has revolved around plays for Bosh…is it really so surprising that Calderon doesn’t run out on fast breaks when he has had it pounded into him to slow down and wait for Bosh as he saunters down the court??
Calderon ran a team that beat the Americans in the 2006 Fiba championships…he is a pass first point guard who has no one to fucking pass to…and btw, Nash can’t defend against players like Nelson, Paul or Harris any better than Calderon..but Nash has always had players to pass to.
What possible excuse could there be for a professional NBA team that considers itself a playoff team to field a platoon of wing players like Joey Graham, Jamario Moon, Jason Kapono and Anthony Parker, literally the worst in the NBA….except that management figured it didn’t really need more help at the wing because it had a Superstar at the 4 who was going to carry this team.
The Raptors have dug themselves a nice hole…hoisted on their own petard, by making Bosh this “Superstar MVP” making him far more a focus than any winning team would, assuming that he just needs “pieces” around him the way LeBron does rather than seeing the need for major players who can make him the second or third option while expecting him to hold his own on defense….
Toronto is not in a position to bring in those major players…and Bosh isn’t going to win without them….
Ginobli was born in Argentina and learned his bball fundamentals outside of the NCAA bbaall factory.
Parker was born in the USA, played in the NCAA and was exiled to the Euro-league after his first stint in the NBA with the Sixers.
The fact they were drafted in the 2nd and 1st round respectively (and happened to play in Europe) is meaningless.
I think nunya meant Tony Parker – the Spurs’ all-star – and not the washed up shit that’s on the Raptors.
Realizart makes a couple of nice additions here to Nunyas points- but lets give him some props:
Not only did he say a lot of important and TRUE points about this team-
BUT he was also able to do it in an intelligent fashion!
way to go Nunya, I knew you had it in ya. great post.
sorry – realizer not raelizart
and Nunya apparently is a her not a him.
my apologies to both.
REALIZAR.
Nunya is a “her”? Wow. She’s twice the man I thought she was.
May we assume you would approve of trading Bosh for a couple-three decent players …. and immediately?
Giving up 37pts in the 4th quarter is a let down (i.e. choke).
I’m very dissapointed with this loss. If the Raps are gonna make it into the playofss, they have to beat the mid-pack teams, especially those above them in the standings (i.e. Bulls, etc).
Our next game is on Friday against the Pacers (RAPTOR FAN FRIDAY IN EFFECT). If we win that game, I’ll hold some hope for a playoff run. But if we lose, I’ll also lose alot of the hope I’m holding onto.
LET’S GO RAPS!!
IT’S TIME TO GET BACK ON TRACK!!
Let me guess, you were a Swirsky fan….
Yeah, I was… and still am (a Chuck Swirsky fan)!
I am a not unattractive female and yet I know I have more testosterone than you….
Seriously, how is it possible for there to be so many ball-less men in one place??
I think you’ve got a much (too much) testosterone as a jabroni juice monkey: All biceps, no brains and a small dick.
No mention of Deng getting something like 14 000 offensive rebounds on one possession, at one point? I almost lost my mind.
I did mention it, that’s when Jack made an excuse for Bosh. Actually, it was Rose who got the first 1 and Deng got the next 3.
Sorry, Arse… you did.
I am going to wait till the end of this Raps season and see who is really showing tru ballz…you know why the Bulls were sucking this year and last year, their “core” players (Deng, Gordon, and Heinrich) did not have the stomach and maturity to deal with media and harsh criticism, and it affected their games so badly (or they are all 2nd stringers). I don’t care how many times ppl mention Bosh goes to New York, I just want to see Bosh do his thing here in Toronto and help win us some games until his contract expires, but he isn’t doing that by not blocking out ppl to get defensive rebounds enough. You can sure say the supporting cast sucks and they do, but I think Bosh isn’t reading those scouting reports or really focusing in the game and losing his will to influence his teamates. WE gotta draft another captain on this team that won’t say dumb crap during interviews, first TJ Ford, and now Bosh on the day after Mitchell was fired. Let’s see what Bargnani can show us now.
I think it’s obvious now that JO has to be the first big off the bench when he returns to the line-up.
Replacing Voskul for JO should be a huge upgrade! And by coming off the bench, JO should be in line to play LESS minutes, which should keep him healthier over the course of the season (and what’s left of his career).
If JO is the team player he says he is, he can’t deny the fact that Bargs should continue to start, for the good of the team, the franchise and JO himself.
Hope you’re right, and also JO met up with Bargs in Vegas in the summer, by coincidence though. You think they got a chemistry going?
nunya,
re: comment #13
Nice post … similar, in a way, to what I’ve written for the last 3 years [since Feb/2006]. : )
Chris Bosh is a first-rate player, in the NBA, who is at his best when he focuses on the other areas of his individual game [most notably Rebounding & Defense], not scoring, as an under-sized Center. He has the type of stable, unselfish character around which an upper echelon team can be built … provided that he has the right complementary peices to the puzzle [at the PG, OG, SF, PF, Head Coach & GM positions] placed around him.
When it comes to becoming a legitimate contender for a spot in the EC Finals, there is still a lot of work ahead for the Raptors’ organization:
PG – Starter: Calderon; Sub: Ukic
OG – Starter: ?; Sub: Parker
SF – Starter: ?; Sub; Moon or Graham or Delfino
PF – Starter: Bargnani [who can only check a Power-based Big]; Humphries
C – Starter: Bosh; Sub: ?
Head Coach – ?
General Manager – ?
That is ridiculous…and anyone who thinks Bosh can play centre in the NBA has no credibility.
You are one of the “small picture” guys who has never had the balls to call out Bosh for what was obvious since the New Jersey series…
I am beginning to come around to the tonius35 opinion. Bosh does show an unnatural level of mental softness when things get tough. He does play great when surrounded by olympians and that translated into a great start to the season but what is this that I’ve been seeing again and again. Is he hurt or seriously depressed or something because something dramatically changed in his attitude. I’m kinda at a loss for an explanation why this team is this bad when they really shouldn’t be…
It’s called… mailing it in and being “asked” to do too much. Then again, part of that is people telling him he’s an MVP and his overestimating his ability.
nunya,
re: comment #13
Nice post … similar, in a way, to what I’ve written for the last 3 years [since Feb/2006]. : )
Chris Bosh is a first-rate player, in the NBA, who is at his best when he focuses on the other areas of his individual game [most notably Rebounding & Defense], not scoring, as an under-sized Center. He has the type of stable, unselfish character around which an upper echelon team can be built … provided that he has the right complementary peices to the puzzle [at the PG, OG, SF, PF, Head Coach & GM positions] placed around him.
When it comes to becoming a legitimate contender for a spot in the EC Finals, there is still a lot of work ahead for the Raptors’ organization:
PG – Starter: Calderon; Sub: Ukic
OG – Starter: ?; Sub: Parker
SF – Starter: ?; Sub: Moon or Graham or Delfino
PF – Starter: Bargnani [who can only check a Power-based Big]; Sub: Humphries
C – Starter: Bosh; Sub: ?
Head Coach – ?
General Manager – ?
I don’t think JO is unreasonable enough to demand a starting spot whether he is healthy or not – at least he does not seem that way with his public comments. Once Calderon and JO are back, we should see less of the scoring droughts that plague the team in the 2nd and 4th quarters. Maybe, just maybe these guys can pull it out.
I hope they make the playoffs. I hate this tanking shit and going for a better draft position. Our#1 draft pick is only now starting to pay dividends in his 3rd season.
I also think JO is a reasonable person and will agree to come off the bench.
As for Bargs, he’s a young player who only now (in his 3rd year) developing into the kind of player he’s destined to be. The fact it’s taken him 3yrs to begin to play up to his potential is not at all not surprising. It’s just unfortunate that fans aren’t has patient as real professional NBA executives who know what they are doing (i.e. BC).
And I also HATE (HATE!!) the ‘tank-talkers’ (WANKERS) too!!
Do you really hope we make the playoffs? How does the 8th seed sound to you.
Then how does getting swept by Boston/Cle while exposing our perimiter defense, lack of boxing out, and lack of fast break buckets sound.
How bout then once we barely get into the playoffs and get swept, how does getting the 17th/18th pick in the draft as a reward for such a dissapointing season?
If we dont make the top 5 seeds there will be no point to making the playoffs.But in essence if we do lose quite a few games, trade Parker/Graham/Moon/JO/Kapono for some package including draft picks..not only can we rebuild for a monster year next year but we can also have flexibilty on draft day to trade for a disgruntled star.
We would also have a good draft pick. Look at Memphis..they tanked last season, and now have OJ Mayo to show for it. Thunder tanked last season and have possibly the best 1,2,3 in the game for the next decade. Atlanta tanked for 3 years and now have one of the best records in the East. Chicago tanked last year and now have Chris Paul v.20 to show for it
Remember when Sacramento couple years back aquired Ron Artest seeing him as a missing peice…well now look at them..that acqusition set them back
Just dont be too easy as to accept playoffs becuase for the Knicks mabey playoffs is a good goal..for us advancing in the playoffs is a goal. In my mind being eliminated 1st round and just missing the playoffs are the 2 worst spots to be in
How do you know we’ll get swept?
How about a first round loss in 7 games against the Celtics (like the Hawkes last year).
There’s a reason we play the games… and if you don’t have a ticket into the playoffs, you don’t have a chance of winning a title.
Tanking = Quitters/Losers
How about we just went 0-4 vs Boston and the playoffs are a different beast? And overall who cares if you get swept or lose game 7 when you are going golfing either way?
Like you said, the playoffs are a different beast (0-4 in the regular season is meaningless).
James, c’mon.. you are not being realistic here. I appreciate you optimism, but at what point does that become (pardon me) stupidity?
Since the format went to 7 games in the 1st round, the Raps are 3-11 (27%). Overall 11-20 (35%). When I said different beast, it was implied that good/great teams play better and crap teams fold. 4 games or 7 games .. they fold. Again, what is the difference? If you really think 0-4 means nothing.. I don’t know what to tell you. Ignoring facts and history, is not the best approach to things, IMO.
Flux, I much as you love to lose, we’re not one of 5 worst teams in the league this season.
The only fact that matters is this one: It’s better to be an 8th seed in the playoffs, than a non-playoff team with the 15th pick in the draft.
James, just elaborate for me how it is better to make the playoffs then a not with the 15 pick, if you are the Toronto Raptors?
And no we are not on the 5, we are one of the 10. WOW! Astronomical difference there.
Flux,
Please tell me why you think barely missing the playoffs and ending up with the 15th pick after the draft lottery is somehow (in any way) better for the Raptors than making the playoffs and having the 16th pick.
James,
you made the statement, not I. So, if you don’t mind, please do explain your stance. “The only fact that matters is this one: It’s better to be an 8th seed in the playoffs, than a non-playoff team with the 15th pick in the draft.”
Reason #1) You can’t win a title in you aren’t in the playoffs
Reason #2) A sense of accomplishment given our current record
Reason #3) The ability of carry the momemtum and beat our first round opponents
Reason #3a) The ability to carry that momumtum to win our second round series
Reaseon #4) An increase of excitement for the Raps throughout the general populus
Reason #5) More revenue for MLSE
Reason #6) The possibility of MLSE agreeing to pay some luxury tax to make our team a title contender by 2010.
Reason #7) Improves our chances of retaining Bosh (Making the playoffs is why the players play the regular season)
Now Flux, you give me 7 reasons why not making the playoffs and having the 15th pick is better. Thx.
1) No, you can’t. But how many 7 or 8 seed, with the makeup of the Raptors roster, have?
2) Moral victories are for losers.
3) Depending on seed and opponent. If Lower/Higher momentum means nothing.
4) IF that even happens, highly unlikely.
5) hahahahahahhahahhaha…hahahahahhahahhahah are you joking? Do you really think a 1st round exit generates revenues with a margin that is even worth the trouble?
6) When in the history of MLSE have they crossed it?
7) Oh yeah, getting bounced out of the 1st round and putting it on his resume, is really going to convince him to stay.
I never made the statement that not making the playoff is better. But you are making a pretty weak argument that simply making them, with no realistic chance of winning it all, IS in fact better. Tanking may be for losers, INYO, but that’s how the Spurs got Tim Duncan, and Miami set itself up to be able to do things in the future. Raptors are stuck in the middle, which is the worst possible position to be in.
Eternal optimism is for suckers that MLSE love to make money off of.
HA! Just notice you had a 3a there..that’s my 4. So for your 4 – Increase of excitement? This team doesn’t need to make the playoffs for people to be excited… the attendance numbers show that. With people like you around, “true fans” *cough.. homers..cough*, excitement is around even if the team were to go 0-82. And MLSE is laughing all the way to the bank, with their salesman BC (”in who we trust”, btw.. and do i need to draw the comparison to the line on American currency? Oh, the irony) leading the way.
Flux, don’t hate on me cuz you hate the Raps. [/end]
Conversely, don’t hate on me because I don’t share you level of love and enthusiasm for the Raps. Take your own advice buddy. I was not the one throwing down fungus insults, like a child. And, btw I don’t hate the Raps, contrary to your perception. I just don’t wear Hello Kitty glasses and drink BC Kool Aid, like you do. PEACE!
Good recap.
Where’d Bosh’s edge go? Whatever nutrients he’s is experimenting with should stop immediately. A diet of raw meat and red bull – at least on game days – might do him some good.
Why is Jermaine O’Neal not visible, like … anywhere? Seems kind of odd.
A bit new to the game, but starting to understand the howling about ‘wing players’.
Watching Bargnani and what he’s capable of is encouraging, to say the least.
So Stressing…
Why didn’t Bargs get shats in the end. he force OT with C’s!
Sigh, if he scored a game-winning 3 the whole building would go nuts. Once moon shat that 3 pointer i knew we lost.
Waste of my money
I have found the solution! http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=136~3422~1980~829~3249~615&teams=28~28~28~28~17~17&te=&cash=
nunya,
——————————–
re: That is ridiculous…and anyone who thinks Bosh can play centre in the NBA has no credibility.
——————————–
LOL … as, in fact, it’s the exact opposite. : )
——————————–
re: You are one of the “small picture” guys who has never had the balls to call out Bosh for what was obvious since the New Jersey series…
——————————–
LOL … as, in fact, those within the hoops community would suggest to YOU that it’s the exact opposite. : )
It’s important to understand that there are different ways to play the Center position effectively, in the NBA, and that those who think there’s only ONE WAY to do it … are the individuals who, unfortunately, can only see the “small picture”. : )
If you mean that I literally don’t have testicles, and you do, fine…you got me there…
In terms of credibility, I don’t know anyone else who has said, since the New Jersey series that Bosh would never be the “best” player on a championship team…including you..I have said it here, in the Globe and in the Star and been ridiculed every time…I said it when we won 47 games and I said it when we won 41 games and I still say it and the fact is, so far the team has gotten progressively worse…that’s just a fact…when that changes, I’ll gladly revise my opinion.
I said this team would never compete for anything without All Star calibre wing players, so far that is true. I said the O’Neal trade would be an unmitigated disaster (when it was just a rumour)..so far that is true…I said that Bargnani was 23 and needed time and that the limp dicks here who called him VL should shut the fuck up, I said I thought he would be a better post defender than Bosh and I still believe it..I said at the beginning of the year that there was no way the team, as assembled was a playoff team…anyone want to bet me $100 we don’t make the playoffs? And if we do, it will be an embarrassment…which is hardly the point of being a playoff team.
..and incidentally, how anyone would think that the use of insipid smiley emoticons somehow gives one more gravitas than the use of capitals is beyond me….
When someone who has been warning of something for years to limp dick pooh poohing only to see it pretty much come to pass might be a little pissed off, it’s cathartic to make points on the internet with dumb capitalized words because at the end of the day, you don’t give a shit what anyone says, you’re just venting…I don’t expect anyone to change their opinion about anything because of something I say here…nor do I care…I’m watching a game, pissed off because it’s Groundhog Day and I want to vent…not real complicated.
If you REALLY think anyone is learning from you, your arrogance is admirable…no one really gives a shit what either of us say here or on any fansite…only Swirsky fans believe something just because they’re told…
if I’m wrong and Bosh leads a winning team at the centre, power forward or point, I’ll be fucking thrilled…I’ll come here and say I was wrong and be happy because ALL (oh gosh golly, there go those nasty capitals again) I care about is this team progressing and ultimately being the best.
Bosh has played centre on this team and it didn’t work…
I would make that trade in a second.
It is difficult to compare Bosh to Lebron James or Dwayne Wade simply because they play different positions.
Typically, power forwards are unlikely to be breaking people down from the top of the key and if you have a person that can do that on your team and has the skill to finish, good on ya.
People can hate on Bosh if they want, but I think I remember one poster who I would consider reasonable (Bring Back Delfino or Stince or somebody like that) indicating that we had the worst set of wings in the NBA by PER differential (our PER – opposing PER). As well documented, we aren’t going to be doing anything until we improve the wings. They are THE problem on this team.
I think Colangelo has made some mistakes but as Stince has pointed out, he has shored up 3 positions in which there is less talent in the league relative to wing talent. In addition, he traded Ford, Rasho and Hibbert for a decent player with a massive contract which he can now use to shore up the wing.
The real key to this all has been Bargs’ development as a legit Centre (though he still has to improve his rebounding or at least show more consistent rebounding numbers)
So in sum, this year is not our year, but we have some good looking pieces at key positions and have a nice trade chip to acquire help for our most glaring holes.
Prognosis……positive, for the future.
Statement, the wing argument is 100% valid. Check the link to ESPN PER48 in the post today.
Nobody’s comparing Bosh to James or Wade, not only because they play different positions but also because they’re superior players. There’s no question about that. Some argue that high caliber PF/Cs have a difficult time being clutch because the ball isn’t in their hands at the start of the possession is a myth. Duncan, Rasheed, Millsap and even Yao this season have shown otherwise.
IMHO, there’s a bridge between now and 2010 that is very crucial for the Raptors. If they suck, then Bosh is out. I don’t think he’s willing to tank this season, wait for the trade deadline of next year to unload JO, get young talent and then develop that talent. There are just too many other attractive options for him to choose that.
I get the feeling that you’re willing to give Colangelo more time and that’s your choice but recognize that he’s basically done nothing to move the franchise along in his three years. You say he’s shored up three pieces, well, Bosh and Calderon were here before he even got here so you can’t give him credit for that. He’s flipped Charlie V for TJ Ford and then TJ Ford, a serviceable center in Rasho and a damn good pick for JO. Sorry, but what’s he done again? He drafted Bargnani and although he’s played well in the last two weeks, Brandon Roy and Aldridge say that he didn’t make the best decision with the pick.
Also consider what he’s NOT done and that’s use the draft to any sort of an advantage (i.e: get younger): PJ Tucker, Nathan Jawai, trading away picks? That’s not smart management at all. The other young player we’re all looking forward to (Ukic) is a Babcock remnant too. Signing bandaids like Hassan Adams and Will Solomon and expecting them to contribute anything was moronic.
And finally, don’t forget the signing of Kapono who was the last thing we needed after we lost to NJ in the playoffs. Rebounding, perimeter defense should’ve been addressed in that summer and all we did was add a horrible defender who can’t rebound, and even struggles doing the things he’s good at.
Just facts man, just facts.
Points well taken,
However, he did lock-up Bosh and Caleron and I think that one of the main reasons Bosh wanted to stay was because bringing in Bryan sort of signalled a change in the culture of the franchise. He also reupped Calderon as well. Also, he did sign Garbo and Parker and got delfino as well as Humphries and Jamario Moon (who provides good bang for the buck), so you have to mix in the good with the bad. My whole point is that the major pieces are in place and they have the asset that will enable them to shore up their worst positions.
I have already indicated that I don’t think it will be this year, but you have to remain optimistic.
“recognize that he’s basically done nothing to move the franchise along in his three years”
They did win the (admittedly awful) atlantic division 2 years ago, as he brought in cheap, under the radar useful Euros, so I don’t think you can make the point you made in your quote with 100% accuracy.
Sorry for the double-reply, but forgot that one in my response.
i think we should do that trade, #40, just to confuse fans. Do we boo?
We have to stop running ISO’s for Bosh to close out the game. Triano just keeps running Mitchell’s crunch plays, and it is bothering me (Parker is still the go-to guy ant the end of games from 3, and he still gets the same contested looks he got under Smitch). I don’t think that ISO for Bosh is the ideal play for a proven winner in Tim Duncan on the Spurs, and should not be an ideal play for the Raps. Nunya disagrees with that (from the last post), and thinks Bosh should be a go-to guy if he is to be considered a top player – but like I said, would you run an ISO for Duncan with 10 seconds left? IS that the play you would call? Or would you give it to Manu, who regardless of when he is drafted is a clutch performer who drives as well as anyone in the league?
There are other reasons Bosh does not deserve to be a superstar in this league. As a PF his defence needs to pick up to at least an all-star level, because his scoring is not, and probably will never be prolific enough to compensate for that. This is what contributes to TD being one of the best PF’s in the game. But we need to recognize that Bosh has to stop being our first and last option for scoring.
If he Bosh the ball in his hands at the end of games, Triano needs to tell him to think drive and kick first, unless he has blown by his man already, in which case, yes, he can put it up. This is a far better play then whatever it is Triano sets up. Jay, it is time to diversify the end of game scenarios…
agreed Verbatim, ISO for Bosh shouldn’t be the last play of the game. We need that wing BADLY.
I bet NJ could get more for VC so I doubt that trade happens. besides, maybe they give up on Lebron and try to do a Boston by trading for talent in the twilight of its prime to pair with Vince.
It’s easy to lambaste Colangelo for the lack of wing talent on this team. I, for one, want to see everyone but Joey and Parker gone (and they should only return at reduced salary and neither is a starter). There needs to be an adjustment to this team’s collective attitude and a wholesale reno on the wings is a place to start.
But does anyone have a bright idea? Mine is get 2009 cap relief for JO and think hard about making a play for Ben Gordon and Josh Childress. There isn’t much wing talent in 2009. Anyone got better ideas of the kinds of potentially-available players a competent GM should be chasing?
Khandor, I will assume Rodney Carney is your first pick. He seems to be doing well of late. Can he create off the dribble or is he a more locked-in Moon?
Now that it is set for this team and time to move on, could anybody recommend a similar fansite for a team in the west? It is truly special when a site can keep my attention for a half season as this one has and would have continued but for the team, 16-24 yikes.
no similar sites?
go to google, and search ” blog”. happy hunting!
that’s supposed to read “[team of your choosing] blog”
Blazer’s Edge. Golden State of Mind is good but the team is worse than the Raptors with less hope for the future.
Forum Blue and Gold is good too. Frontrunners
Thank you for those, hard to find the good ones. May I ask Suns or Spurs?
Great analysis Arsenalist, good recap and solid mixture of stats and thoughts.
I truly think we have the pieces now to be an elite team by 2010. I would give Colageleo time and what I would do is aim for Ariza and Joe Johnson as our primary wing men. I would resign moon for cheap and draft a two guard who can create their own shot. A wing free agent would look at Toronto and see an ideal situation; both bigs are quality and we have a solid pg tandem in calderon and ukic.
Ariza’s contract expires this season and the lakers have 75 million already committed to the cap and this is without odom’s figure as well as he is expiring this season too. Signing Ariza is one move I truly think BC could which would set us up perfectly to get that secondary star besides bosh (my pick is joe johnson). If we can get Johnson, the window of contention from 2010 onwards would look extremely bright.
Sam,
Rodney Carney is a solid, young athletic player who is going to get better down-the-road but creating off the bounce in the half-court is not his M.O.
Carney would have been a nice solid addition this season … given the other wing players on the Raptors, like Parker, Moon, Graham, Kapono & Adams … but he is not the type of dynamic elite level wing player that many of the observers here think is necessary to compete for and eventually win a NBA championship, e.g. Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Ginobili, Pierce, Lebron, Carter, McGrady, Roy & Durant.
IMO …
* Wing Players like THAT are only available through the annual NBA Draft, and are just as hard to find as PG’s, PF’s and/or C’s.
* If you’ve got one already through the Draft, that’s terrific; your team’s got a shot at winning it all one day.
* But … if you don’t have THAT type of player already on your roster, there are OTHER WAYS to try and win a championship in this League … e.g. like the Pistons showed with Billups+Rip+Prince+Wallace+Wallace+etc., and the other teams I’ve mentioned before from an earlier time in the history of the NBA.
lmfao…all day,all night….rodney carney.
Khandor,
from my perspective, it’s not an elite level wing player that’s necessarily needed (though it would be nice), just an upgrade over the worst group in the NBA. Even the 2nd worst group would be a marginal upgrade (all else equal).
I agree with you that there are other ways to build a championship team, but you are NOT doing anything with the worst production in the NBA from your wings.
Arse – 100 percent agree with you on what has B.C. done to us. When we ditched babcock I felt we should have given him a chance to finish what he started with cald, bosh, ukic.
I really hate B.C. He made too many mistakes..Although i still would have went with Bargnani. didn’t project Roy to be this good. we already have bosh so no need for lamarcus.
He has one chance to fix himself.. ACQUIRE THE EFFING SF
We should get MARION. I like JO cuz my gf says he looks like a puppy but crap with Bargs on fire we don’t need him anymore. try to save the season…Marion has expiring contract anyways so it works out that same.
I don’t agree with the hate for BC.
He took a calculated risk in the off-season acquiring JO. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked out.
I understood the risk and accepted it – at the time. By doing so, anyone who also agreed with the trade (at the time) cannot hate on him. Same goes for drafting Bargs – now that he’s finally becoming the player he was seen as becoming, which BC and every league executive said he would be. And let’s see how much better Bargs is in his 5th year, the last year of his rookie contract).
Even though the JO risk is turning out to have been a mis-step (not a mistake, since JO could return, play off the bench and become a key peg turning this season around), it should not and will not cost him his job.
In BC I trust: to “eventually” navigate the Raps to the promise land.
Agreed!
“eventually”??? Meaning what? Within our lifetime? And if not, that’s OK too, right? BC said contender in 4 years. He didn’t say eventually!!!
The sooner the better,
But let’s be realistic here.
The best chance that a MAJOR Toronto Franchise wins a championship (which to me doesn’t include the Argos, TFC, or the Rock) is the Raptors.
Have you seen the AL East? although I think J.P. has done a pretty good job, the Jays are toast this year and have pretty much owned up to that fact.
As for the leafs……….
So I’ll be willing to wait a little while longer if it means bringing playoff games to Toronto for a good period of time, because I don’t think we’ll be seeing any better playoff contributions from our other teams.
I could go on all day about the Jays, but this isn’t the forum.
Statement, granted I know little (read: nothing) about the Jays or Leafs. However, do you really think MLSE would “allow” for the Raps to win anything, before the Leafs did? IMO, that’s next to impossible.
I do think that could be the case Fluxland,
corporate seats are corporate seats right, they don’t care about the game, just about company-client relations. Besides that, Raptors games do quite well in attendance normally anyways (2006-2007 helped for sure). Plus if the Raptors were ever to get past the first round (I know they have before, so chill basketball purists who read this), that’s just more money in the pockets of the people who run things at MLSE.
BTW, besides the Pension Fund and the Tannebaum Family, who else has a controlling interest in the leafs and raps??
This argument about revenues/depth in playoffs has been done on here before, and it’s not as simple as oh, longer playoff run equals more money. It’s a very delicate balance, because to even make that run, you have to spend money up front and then hope to recover the costs. That is something MLSE is just not willing to do without guarantees, as spending money up front does not mean playoff success, just the mere possibility.
And you said it yourself, they do quite well with revenues regardless of record or playoff run. Now, if you are MLSE why would you even bother spending more money, when you don’t have to, since you are making plenty as it is? They got it made, no reason for them to lift a finger. People like James, keep believing and keep buying tickets regardless of how high the odd are stacked against the team, simply to the possibility and chance of the planets lining up right and going against the entire history of the NBA.
Entire history of the NBA? What do you mean by that (No insult implied, I just don’t know what you mean by that statement).
Fluxland, I agree with you to some extent. The Jays won back-to-back World Series with a high payroll. In fact, if memory serves, the jays had the FREAKING HIGHEST PAYROLL in baseball at the time. They had philanthropic owners who I think sacrificed profits for wins (which, incidently was a point of that revenue article posted here before, although an article about NBA revenues is shady at best because a) the source that determines the revenues may not be reliable and b) there is no mention of COSTS).
Be that as it may, I still believe the Raptors have the best chance out of Toronto teams to make the playoffs and continue to endulge us fans in the forseeable future.
I may be young (27), but I remember the World Series wins (92-93) and the countless prior playoff games by the Jays in the 80s. That was good times, and I think the best hope for that is the Raptors in the near term. So stop being an unabashed hater. We all know the limitations of MLSE, but we can still be hopeful fans right?
Meaning that no team constructed the way BC has constructed it, or for that matter, any team BC has ever constructed has ever won a NBA chip that way. You know, hopefully outscore the other team, while defense and rebounding are an afterthought. Entertainment and profits first, rings only a bonus. But hey, there is a chance, right? PLAH ESE!!
Agreed, the NBA info is hard to come buy, but if you pick up on things here and there, you can get the basic picture. Not to mention, it’s not that hard to figure out costs and revenues. It’s not the KGB payroll system here, it’s essentially a business like any other.
Yeah, you can choose your stance and be an optimistic hopeful. Same way I can choose to be a non believer in the current construction of the team and management. That however, doesn’t make me a hater. It’s the same old, same old, the narrow minded see things their way and if everyone else doesn’t – they are just an assortment of things Andiamo would call you.
Dino Gunner:
IMO …
1. Ariza is not going anywhere. He is going to be resigned by the Lakers.
2. Ariza is a terrific complementary player.
3. If Joe Johnson is on the move, he will not be heading for Toronto, as there are several other destinations in the NBA which would be a better fit for him, from his perspective.
The Raptors will need to draft the dynamic Wing Player they’ve been looking … since they GAVE AWAY [i] Wince Carter and then passed on [ii] D-Wade, [iii] D-Granger, [iv] Brandon Roy and [v] Rudy Gay.
Khandor how would they fit everybody? They have 75 committed before odom and ariza. Ariza will probably want MLE (around 6 mill) for a multi-year contract and Odom would want 10 mill. Do you really think LA is going to have a 90 million dollar payroll? And that is 90 million committed to 11 players. I think other teams will have a shot at either ariza or odom and I think it would be wise for the Raps to try to get one.
That’s a good point about Lakers salaries. I don’t know what their limit is but if they win the title this year I wouldn’t be surprised to see them keep the team intact.
Who knows if JJ will follow the money or go to a contending team, I don’t know enough about the guy to predict that. Atlanta seems like a pretty good home for him, he’s got a good front court and a damn good PG to give him the ball.
Gotta agree with khandor that the wing will have to come from the draft. I was looking forward to drafting at #17 or maybe even moving up to take a swipe at Rush but BC chose to apply the quick fix. I don’t think the Raptors are perceived as a contender or even a good team by other NBA players/coaches, don’t see a player coming to us unless we overpay.
To acquire an all-star wing (a la JJ), we will have to overpay (max money).
Is that in the best interest of the team. YES – if they decide to go over the luxury tax.
Also if Joe Johnson is looking for a team in 2010 and we had gotten Ariza or Odom for that matter.
Pg. Calderon, Ford
sg: blank, parker/draft pick
sf: ariza, moon (resigned at 1-2 million)
pf: bosh / hump
c: barg / o’neal
this team would look mighty attractive to him. In effect, this team caters perfectly to him. To strong, perimeter oriented big men who can score, defend and rebound, a tough rebounding and defensive minded athletic small forward and a pg who can create and takes care of the ball.
did you make a trade to get TJ FORD BACK?
or did you meant to type ukic.
sorry i meant ukic
I expect our roster will look much different by July 1, 2010.
That’s the date of Jose and Bosh’s sex change operations
It’s also the expiration date of BC’s existing 4-year plan.
Khandor,
I like your posts. It’s seems like you have great b-ball knowledge. I used to not them because of the condescending tone you took towards people.
(This is an aside Khandor, I would encourage you to read this, but don’t if you don’t want to)
Unless you are an extremely great fighter, nobody should ever post like you did lest they get the shit beat out of them. I assume you are in Toronto, so if a reader/writer challenged you to a fight, you should show up at Philthy’s and back your words up or else risk losing respect on the very same site that you post regularily on.
But people learn from to improve their writing style based on the mistakes they had made before and you have done well in that regard.
With all that said
If you were Bry Co., how would you improve this team? What moves would you make
I’ll start: How would I improve this team?
1) Keep JO for the rest of the season coming off the bench
2) Try trading Kapono/Hump for a starting wing (see Josh Howard)
3) Try Ukic as our primary back-up when Jose returns
Kapono/Hump for Josh Howard? Are you delusional? Why on earth would Dallas NOT hang up the phone on BC if he offered that?
Here’s mine:
- Trade JO to Marion (brings defense which we need + contract ends early)
- Package Kapono for one of GSW’s guards
If I’m BC I would call up GSW and say, “What do you want for Monta Ellis?” and go from there.
Azabuike!
And see if New Orleans would be interested in Hump. They could use an offensive-minded big off the bench and Hump seems more talented than what they have. If BC could get Julian Wright he might be the slasher/defender the Raptors lack. He doesn’t cost much and he expires soon.
It’s still yet to be seen how this team could perform with a healthy Jose, a healthy JO and a thriving, confident Bargs. JO’s apparently offered to come off the bench and ease his way back in game shape. That should stem the JO/Bargs controversy for the time being.
I’m willing to be patient (mainly because I don’t see the Raptor getting good value for JO and his expiring contact this year) and see what Triano can get out of these guys.
On a different note, once Jose comes back, Will should NEVER play.
Statement,
* Some people only have an inside power game. Others are strictly finesse. Some are only defenders, or passers, or screeners, or rebounders, or shooters, or drivers, or hustle players; while others are multi-dimensional. Some believe that there is but one way to do something. Others believe the opposite.
In my book, it’s both a complex and a simple world, simultaneously, and there’s tremendous value in being able to function in an assortment of different ways, as needed.
* In the recorded history of time … the pen has always been mightier than the sword.
* Mr. Colangelo should sit tight for the rest of this season … with the exception of trading Jason Kapono if/when the right deal comes along. IMO, the key to building a strong team in the NBA is still the same as it’s always been … i.e. which good players you draft and which ones you strike out on.
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